They can say "non negotiable" all they want, it's just like a dealer saying he won't budge on the price of a car that's been sitting on the lot for months. You win by walking away, no matter the outcome.
Yes, and it is easy to walk away from Win-11 for most people. People will also find that in most cases if they do switch to Linux to have continued support there will never be a reason to switch back.
@@kensmith5694 It's absurdly easy to walk away from Win11. It looks pretty, sure, but nothing works properly on it, and that's a deal breaker for me. After using it for 6 months, I upgraded back to 10, I just had enough. I refuse to go back, and I won't buy pre-made machines with this OS on it. Any company that doesn't offer drivers for Win10 (at the very least) I refuse to buy from them as well.
My problem with forcing people to buy new computers in order to upgrade to Windows 11 for the sake of TPM 2. What is stopping Microsoft from doing that again in a couple years for some other security requirement? Computers aren't cheap. Plus with their addition of their spy software called "Recall", recording everything you do, What about user security? I'm switching to Linux. Good Bye Microsoft.
Forcing people Especially when your pc was built by yourself at a high cost or you have a decent laptop that cost more than your average cheap laptop..this is the deal breaker not only is it e waste its our expense which some of us cannot justify again.
Some industry group will come out with TPM 3.0, or a new CPU instruction set. And microsoft will require those to sell more PCs and more windows licenses. It's a big treadmill to keep you paying.
@@supersaiyaman11589 Even if Recall can be disabled, its existence is a red flag. What other privacy invasive features can't be disabled that they aren't telling you about?
Declaring TPM 2.0 as 'non-negotiable' is a way of declaring war to your customers. If your PC or laptop ever fails completely then you would expect to simply take the SSD or NVMe to another machine and read all your critical data. Unless you noted the cryptic key for that thing which most people don't then you lost everything.
They know alot there customers won't move away from windows even after so many problem or slap in the face due to the depending of apps or games have anti cheat that only works on windows.
They already declared war when they issued their machine requirements back when W11 was released. The result? Many articles showing how to circumvent these "requirements". Microsnot have made efforts to block these and succeeded in some of them but not all of them - this declaration of the non-negotiability of TPM 2.0 sound to me like an admission of defeat.
@@billyguthrie3176 My comment was about your computer hardware failing. You have this problem only if the hardware has significant issues. However everything eventually does fail. Then that TPM 2.0/BitLocker will be a very serious issue.
It just seems as if the only real reason to take a hard stance on requiring the TPM 2.0 is because they want the Recall feature to be included in all copies of Windows in the future... probably the best way to the truth is to follow the money.
They've already explained in the past that TPM 2 is needed to lock down the boot process. Macs use a hardened bootloader and cryptographically signed read-only system partition. Windows needs TPM.2 to lock down its boot process. If something can get into your boot process they can change our whatever they want and you'd never know.
@@Pyrrho_ Oddly, Microsoft, as far as I've seen, hasn't cited any particular spate of firmware attacks (which is what TPMs are meant to protect against) to justify requiring the TPM, but rather merely stated general reasons. TPM tech has been out for 18 years and 2.0 for 10 years, yet they waited until now to require it. The issue here is who gets to decide what is and is not a necessary security measure for your individual computer. Microsoft is going to have to either cave in on this one or face a serious market share drop. Maybe they should offer financial assistance to upgrade or buy a new computer. 🤷🏻♂
@@Pyrrho_ that depends on what you mean by "no longer comes from windows." It's not as if Office 365 is primarily being used on some other OS, also they make money from servicing Windows and other software in the corporate sector and they've been using Windows to advertise for some years now, which is what, in my opinion, Recall is going to be used for. Yes, I know Microsoft says they won't use your data from Recall, but I don't believe everything Microsoft says. It dovetails quite well with requiring TPM 2.0 as a bulwark against being sued if your information is compromised due to their software.
The problem with TPM is that there isn't enough transparency *on Microsoft's end.* They tell you it's to enhance security, but in truth, the tech can be abused by said company, which compromises your security.
" They tell you it's to enhance security," yeah, but who's security eh? Do you think this is for your security? "Trusted Platform" is for big gov/corpo to trust that your system is theirs - or at least a part of it.
@@soundspark The transparency I was referring to is on Microsoft's end. But yeah, there are distros that also use TPM The difference is, if there are any shenanigans going on, it's going to be discovered by the community.
This! I fix and sell computers and the #1 security threat is ADS! There's a fake "you have a virus!" pop-up with a scammer's phone number, the victim calls them, and lets them remote in, and the scammer logs into their bank account and transfers all their money out. How TF is a stupid TPM chip going to stop this? It isn't.
@@bobmcbob4399 yep, this is it. They want to turn the PC into an Xbox, with software and media only coming from the Microsoft Store. Developers will also need to pay a fee to be in the store, and MS will take a cut of every sale. In other words, MS wants to be Apple.
TPM 2.0 can still by bypassed and even brute forced in many different ways, so not as secure as they claim. The truth is if a bad actor wants access to something secure there is always a way to get around the security. Same with game copy protections, all security systems in general. The way in which the windows kernel was originally developed is the true reason to its flaw's. You have to remember back in the beginning no one expected Windows to be as big as it had become, the internet and cyber security was completely different back then. It really needs a re-write with added security in mind. What MS should of done was either create a light version of Windows 11 or even better just built on the Windows 10 and secured it more and let people carry on with that for standard Windows users, and have people who want the extra AI and extra features upgrade to Windows 11 if they wish. Personally if I want AI I will just add it at a later date not get it forced on me.
Actually, the Windows NT kernel is extremely secure and stable (as in fact those were the two major goals of it), and it's still perfectly fine. It's all the bloatware they've pushed ontop of it that is insecure and unstable.
TPM 2,0 is entirely the issue. 7th gen motherboard chipsets are 100 and 200 series, and TPM 2.0 support was optional. 8th gen and onward motherboards have chipsets with TPM 2.0 guaranteed to be functional. The difference in single core performance between 7th gen and 8th gen is maybe 6%. You wouldn't be able to reliably pick out which CPU was which gen in a blind test.
@@d5gqwerty personally, I don't like aggression being imposed by linux enthusiasts, why does every linux enthusiast behave like a creep in its insists to push everyone to switch over
I'm trying to apply some common sense to the TPM situation. Intel and Microsoft claim that TPM will cut down on cyberattacks. Maybe it does? But that can't be why Microsoft is mandating it. If your computer is attacked, whose problem is it? Yours. Is Microsoft hurt? I don't think so. So why have THEY decided it's all-important? Who is it that presently can't be trusted on your computer? Users don't trust hackers, malware, etc. But I propose that it's YOU the system user that Microsoft doesn't trust. And the TPM is to protect them against you behaving as if the computer is your property to do with as you please. The TPM requirement is actually proof that you don't really own it, do you? If Microsoft were being honest they would say "your system security will be compromised by lack of a TPM". But that's not the issue at all. Microsoft and developers for Windows HATE the idea that users think they own the software they use. That they can pay for it once and use it as long as it does the job. What these guys all wans is a subscription basis. Software runs only as long as you keep up paying the rent on it. The cost of the rent can be changed at any time, along with the rental terms. If the developers don't like ANYTHING that you're doing, they can take away your right to run it. The TPM gives them all the advantages in enforcing these rules. What if your motherboard breaks? Well.... seems like all your software will stop working and the rent you paid for it will be gone with no recourse. You'll have to start all over paying for new copies. Is this the kind of computing world you want for yourself? I sure don't. "Just say no" to the TPM. It is not to your benefit.
The TPM 2.0 requirement can currently be bypassed with Rufus or by other means. With 24H2 they started hard enforcing the SSE4.2 requirement so it wouldn't surprise me if they start doing the same for TPM 2.0 in an update so be aware.
Re: "Non-Negotiable Necessity" Win11 24H2 IoT LTSC allows TPM, Secure Boot & UEFI to all be optional and has support till April 2034 meaning no feature updates so remains 24H2 till April 2034 so no e-waste, I just installed it today on an Intel I3-2120 CPU with 8GB RAM & SSD (for OS location) so 12-13 years old, seems to run quiet well. Real simple to activate.
"Feature" updates didn't even exist until Windows 10. Take a look at the very first version of Windows 7 and compare it to a fully updated version of Windows 7 with the latest service pack. It looks IDENTICAL. They ONLY thing Microsoft used to provide was security updates, and their OS was much better back then. Windows XP/7 were the best versions. They should just stop messing with Windows and try to create a good version and keep it secure.
TPM is mainly to secure their own interests, like software DRM but with a TPM. Why would a gaming system need all those security features that only take away clock cycles from game engines, tell us why that is so necessary Microsoft. The complete thing is a ruse , big tech been lying for so long to everyone, and because most people don't have a clue they get away with it.
I've already converted 3 pcs to Linux Mint including one that meets the "requirements" for Windows 11. My only Windows device now is a Surface Pro 3 which has Windows 10. When they stop Windows 10 support, I will switch that one to Linux too. Screw Microsoft and their "requirements"".
I suppose like I did to hack windows 7 to make it not need a COA, I turned it into an OEM version. It even allowed the update to win10 64bit pro. But my days of suffering windows are over.
I've got Windows 11 running just fine on a 12 year old Thinkpad. Microsoft is in league with the hardware manufacturers trying to force you to buy an entirely new PC or laptop when there is absolutely no need to do so. It's a scam.
Microsoft has not been quiet about their desire to move their products to subscription services. I cannot help but think that this is a major step in this direction. I for one will refuse to suffer paying monthly subscription payments just to use Windows.
@@supersaiyaman11589 You don’t think that Microsoft could take advantage of these new in hardware security features to their financial benefit? Sometimes I think we should all be so naive. Not really.
@@supersaiyaman11589 Given how integrated Windows is with the internet since Windows 10, it would be pretty easy to implement. All they would have to do is have Windows run a verification check with their servers every so often, and if the check fails then they could disable functionality in Windows, or if they really wanted to they could disable it entirely. This would of course make it difficult to keep your system air gapped, since you would have to at least connect it to the internet every time it's time to re-verify that you have paid the subscription fee, but Microsoft wants you to use your online account with them to login instead of a local account anyways, so that does seem to be the direction they are pushing in.
That's why i permanently quit using Windows, every time I build a PC it will be Linux only, and every time I buy a PC, i 100% replace Windows with Linux, I also permanently deleted my Microsoft account!
Except it is not just TPM. Because I have an older motherboard woth a 4th gen processor, but it will take a TPM 2.0 module. If I could just install a TPM and be able to upgrade to Windows 11 that would be great, but I don't see that happening not with all their requirements for upgrading. More than likely Mictosoft is in bed with the chip and motherboard manfacturers and this is just a ploy to get everyone to upgrade even if they can't afford to. The result will be a huge number of people will stay on Windows 10 without security updates.
My 12th Gen Intel CPU supports TPM 2.0, but I turned that setting off in my BIOS so my computer wouldn't upgrade to Windows 11. I'm not interested in that pile of hot steaming garbage. I will continue on Windows 10 until end of life next year and move to Linux Mint.
This was unironically the reason i now run arch. I have historically been a lazy windows user, adverse to change because of comfort. this broke the camel
THE BLURB -- "A Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is a specialized chip on a laptop or desktop computer that is designed to secure hardware with integrated cryptographic keys. A TPM helps prove a user's identity and authenticates their device...." THE TRANSLATION FOR REAL PEOPLE -- " We need this in your PC so we can better align our advertising streams with your browsing habits, so we can send you the most AD's and also allow us access to our keyloggers, trackers, telemetry apps and hidden remote data transferring systems we built into the OS...." I current;y have 5 PC's runnnig various Windows 11 versions. NOT ONE OF THEM has a TPM chip onboard but the bloat filled Windows 10 that is Windows 11 still runs fine...
I already know were this is going soon after Windows 10 is EOL. They are going to implement harsher ways to force the requirement, and the simplest way is a check of the hardware & BIOS settings prior to booting if your hardware & settings is "not on the approved list" you get blue screened. Most in the tech world are crowing about circumventing the TPM requirements, but me truly knowing Microsoft for over thirty years knows that they are waiting for the best time to implement this. This is not only about control, but it has always been about helping their OEM friends & partners make more money. They may loose general customer support, but organizations are the ones truly shackled to them... at least that is what Microsoft thinks. This will byte them in the butt in the long run. The other issue that'll hurt them involves copilot & recall, but that can be a rant for another time.
It's not just enriching their friends and partners. They want to lock down the entire boot chain, like an xbox. Then they have absolute control over what can and can not be installed on your PC, and can set up multiple toll roads.
I left the Msoft clown show in 2019. I went all Linux. Best move I ever made. TPM, Hello, ads, recall or other rubbish that msoft come up with: I will watch from the Linux cheap seats with popcorn.
@@musicalneptunian I have five PCs, and the last one which was used for Adobe & Steam is now going to be running Bazzite due to me not needing Adobe anymore as well as now 95% of my Steam/GOG library runs fine in Linux thanks to proton. Mind you I was during Windows 8 I was 100% on Linux as well until a job required me to go back. I stayed on my main rig due to only 40% of my games not working in wine at the time. However I used Linux along side Windows since the late 90's. My gripe is the 50+TB of data transferring (10TB is games alone) from NTFS to EXT4 it's gonna take a week of work to transfer & reorganize all that data, but it'll be worth it in the end.
It's not just the TPM 2.0, but also the CPU that gives the biggest problems. From 7th gen and lower from Intel and AMD lower than ZEN 1 or ZEN 2 with the TPM 2.0 are already written off before they are properly tested by Microsoft. I also don't have the money to pay for 1 pc, 1 laptop with Windows 11. So Microsoft is slowly going through a big sinkhole from which they can no longer dig themselves. I am curious how they are going to get out of this. Translatation in Dutch: Het is niet alleen de TPM 2.0, Maar ook de CPU die de grootste problemen geeft. Vanaf 7th gen en lager van Intel en AMD lager dan ZEN 1 of ZEN 2 met de TPM 2.0 zijn al afgeschreven voordat ze goed zijn getest door Microsoft. Ik heb het geld ook niet om 1 pc, 1 laptop met Windows 11 te kunnen betalen. Dus Microsoft gaat langzamerhand door een grote sinkhol waar ze zelf niet meer uit kunnen graven. Ik ben wel benieuwd hoe ze hier uit gaan redden.
TPM 2.0 is a security technology that Microsoft invented and implemented to dominate everyone's computers. TPM 2.0 is only relevant to Microsoft. I have TPM 2.0 disabled in the Windows 11 installs and Windows 11 runs fine. TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot, both Microsoft technologies created to only dominate OS market, are disabled and provide not much importance except for dominant control.
Our Social housing organization is still running 40 T-61 laptops, and the remaining balance of the total 400 machines are at least ten years old. They do not see a need to upgrade since there is no internet access. They did a cost estimate including training, replacing, and rewriting and testing custom applications that are business critical. The total cost hit about 1.2 million or more than 25% of the organization's budget. So, the answer is no! Instead, they are looking at moving to Linux and using an emulator to facilitate existing custom applications. Even I am only in part time and on call. They have no formal IT organization to speak of and are not operating in an enterprise framework. They are social workers who have little to no understanding of IT and the benefits of a formal IT organization. Luckily, I retire in a couple of years and then they can go back to letting the head of maintenance handle the computer problems. He is also 60 years old and may not be around much longer either.
This PC has TPM 1.2. I switched to the Beta Channel on Windows 10 some months ago and received the update to Windows 11 without any problems. it runs fine since then.
i built a custom pc a few years ago for this very reason. i understand not everyone can or wants too. as long as i game on my pc i will have to keep up with the requirments for windows. not all of my games work on linux ( i've tried several times ).
You can bypass it with Rufus but may have to do that at every Feature update (these are now yearly) or install Win11 24H2 IoT LTSC as TPM, Secure Boot and UEFI are an option requirement.
I've been very suspicious of Microsoft's insistence on a TPM, it reminds me of the Palladium/NGSCB project from about 20 years ago, which planned to use the TPM for hardware-enforced DRM. That may not be the goal nowadays though, especially with cloud computing allowing this to be enforced server-side. But one thing where it does come in is with Windows Hello. There's an excellent blog post from Elcomsoft about this, called "No TPM No Security". Without a TPM, a 4 or 6-digit PIN (the defaults) can be defeated in less than 3 minutes. So Windows Hello is arguably insecure without a TPM.
It's very easy to get me and others to upgrade to windows 11, simply take away bitlocker and device encryption from home users, that's the only thing stopping me from upgrading.
I'm going to make a video soon. All the connections that I had to block that relates to remote access and phone linking and cross platform linking and recall....this is absolutely unacceptable
Yeah and I hope more ppl wish push back vs bloated windows 11. This is there worst os yet. Even over vista imo. If enough ppl stay on windows 10. They won’t be able ignore us.
- Almost every new generation of hardware has some extra security. And of course every new software has some form of extra security. 2step authentification, inclusion of firewalls, bitlocker, https: it has never been different. So what makes TPM so singular that it requires scrapping billions of perfectly working systems? - TPM is only effective against 'evil mate' attacks: Physical access to a system while it is still powered on, to extract inlog- / decription data from live memory. Yes, those attacks exists, and no, those attacks do not amount to even 0,1% of all malicious activities. So what makes this specific risk so urgent? - Most (all?) systems have a form of fTPM (firmware-based TPM instead of a seperate chip) available since 2008. A system with the same intention, and some argue that it is even more safe then with a seperate chip. So what proven extra safety / functionality is provided by TPM? I could perfectly understand if MS Defender would suggest or even require that a form of TPM should be active if available. Maybe someone could explain to me why a dedicated TPM chip is the way forward. But the risk for home users and for 99% of business is so low that dropping support for all pre- 8th gen Core processors is just plain criminal. What happens now is evident: Some will comply and shell out cash for a new system. Others will find ways to stay on Win 10 (some still find ways to use Win 7 today!). Others will bypass the checks installing Win 11, and hope MS will not brick their devices with some future update. Yet othes will ditch Windows, either to Linux or to Apple. I am typing this on a Yoga 370 with 7th generation Core i processor. Not feeling the slightest urge to replace it. I will install Win 11 oktober '25, and have a Linux installation stick in my top drawer. And if I have to switch, I'll switch with all 10 systems I maintain, because of ease of maintenance and continuity in user interface.
''only verified software is executed..'' Does that mean that anything not having a paid MS certification will not run or I am getting it wrong? Maybe that is part of their plan.. I mean there is a lot of open source software that is not certified by ms but is safe to run..
In the long run, I expect that is the trend. Windows computers will come without a keyboard and a toggle switch. You can either watch a cat video or play solitaire and that is all.
Le problème pour moi c'est l'obsolescence forcée par Microsoft pour faire plaisir aux fabricants d'ordinateurs pour vendre plus d'ordinateurs. Si on a un ordinateur qui est capable de faire tourner Windows 11 sans TPM 2.0, on devrait pouvoir continuer à l'utiliser. Je n'ai rien contre TPM 2.0, c'est même une bonne chose mais il faudrait qu'il soit synchronisé avec les besoins des utilisateurs. Si un ordinateur ne peut pas fonctionner pour une autre raison que TPM 2.0 et que cela ne peut pas être résolu d'une manière ou d'une autre, alors, pas de problème, il est temps de changer d'ordinateur. Par contre, obliger les gens à payer pour l'achat d'un nouvel ordinateur qui peut encore fonctionner sans problème, cela montre le manque de compréhension de l'impact sur les budgets d'achat des utilisateurs et un manque de conscience environnementale pour un ordinateur qui peut encore répondre aux besoins des gens.
If it's such a "non-negotiable" requirement than wny is it that Windows 11 IoT Enterprise and IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024 do not require it? It's not like the average user really cares about Bitlocker or Windows Hello.
As I've said before, Microsoft have tried this on a couple of previous occasions and have suffered as a result. What they have to remember is that this is a piece of software that is run on a computer provided by the computer owner, not the other way around. I still have Windows 7 machines available to me and older versions virtualised (thanks to Linux!)
It's all BS from MS. A lot of older PC's will run it fine and better than some of the dual core pieces of garbage that are on their compatible lists. TPM 2.0 is microsofts way of discouraging the install of other OS's. But I suppose you have to ask yourself at what point does the hardware become obsolete with it's USB2.0 ports, no NVME slots and Wifi g spec's? Great for projects but as a daily driver not so much. Those PCs if you want to keep using would be better suited to a Linux distro than the bloated Win11 anyway.
It depends on the use case, though. My elderly mother and mother in-law both use their PCs to visit a handful of sites, read email, etc. Single core performance gains, generation over generation, have been seeing diminishing returns. There isn't really a performance reason for their use case, as to why their 6th or 7th gen computers need to be turned into e-waste.
@@AAjax My point was more so that some older i7s and such aren't compatible to run Win11 whereas a newer single or dual core is. When you look at something like benchmark, the older i7 still out performs newer single and dual core CPUs regardless of use case. Just another way for MS to gate keep
@@peterschmidt9942 Yeah, I agree with this, which was your first point. My response was to your second point, about obsolete USB 2.0, no NVMI, old WIFI naturally pushing out Windows usage - not true for all use cases.
@@AAjax Personally I think if you don't have at least some form of SSD to run windows at this point in time, it's abundantly slow to the point of almost unusable. Besides, for a lot of people that just want to check their FB, read the occasional website and do some banking would probably have switched to a tablet of some sort other than a PC.
@@peterschmidt9942 Fortunately all of the systems we're talking about support SATA SSD drives. NVME is faster, but mostly for large transfers. Windows boot time between SATA SSD and NVME differs by a second or two. According to Pew Research in 2021, 61% of seniors own a desktop or laptop computer, and 53% own a tablet. I expect there's a lot of overlap, with many owning both.
If you change your processor the TPM can be a real pain in the ass. I Upgraded from Ryzen 3700 to x5900 when TPM Key did not match it ask for password but it locked me out from using it and it would not take my Windows hello eather ... even my backs where locked to 3700 TPM Chip .. I was screwed and had start over .. I HATE TMP!!!
With Rufus you can create a bootable USB stick that still allows you to install Windows 11 on a Pentium 4 (if you're into that kind of thing), so these "requirements" are utter nonsense. Yes, it will run butt cheeks on a P4 and BitLocker will not work properly, but the OS itself will run as long as there are at least Windows 7 (x64) drivers for your more exotic hardware. I have it running just fine on a Intel Core2Quad with 16GB of DDR2 RAM, an old Samsung SATA SSD and a cheap GT610 for video acceleration in UA-cam.
Rufus can remove this requirement, and Windows 11 runs fine without it. I used the bypass on my Windows 11 Pro install, and it works, in some ways, better than my 10 Pro install.
I'd recommend 7 over XP since XP is just too archaic at this point. Most software coming out these days requires 64-bit, which you won't have for XP unless you specifically have the 64-bit version, which by my understanding isn't as stable as the 32-bit version. Even with Windows 7 you're looking at software support drying up pretty rapidly, with none of the major web browsers supporting it anymore and the same with Steam, if you use that for gaming.
This seems like another reason that people need to start installing Linux on a bunch of boxes that won't run Win-11. We really really don't need to be generating huge piles of e-waste when perfectly good hardware could easily serve their owners with something like Linux Mint installed. This is a purely optional ecological disaster that is being created.
0:44 into video...@BrenTech all you have to mention is that the full install of 24H2 on unsupported system will run a red flag with Microsoft's update patch and any further patches. They in turn will block the system specifying it is unsupported. I have experience in this via going the whole nine yards to see if the 24H2 instal would update with no fuss on many an unsupported system and too no avail. Don't shoot the messenger! Peace. ☮☮💕💕
My PCs will not run Windogs 11 -- that is my Non-Negotiabile Necessity. It is not about hardware requirements or TPM, it is about how these corporations try to milk customers and try to control them. Even spying on customers is now on the table. Basically your PC, that you bought, is not working for you, but for Redmond.
I take the philosophical approach. If someone wants to spy on me, what will they learn? They'll learn that I'm just like a significant percentage of several billion other computer users - wee all pee and poop daily. LOL!
Oh its negotiable alright by not installing 11 or bypassing when installing it. My PC has support for Win 11 but I have all the requirements disabled in the Bios. On 10 right now and plan to keep using it. .Looking at Linux distributions right now.
Don't many computers have a TPM header that can just buy and install a TPM 2.0 device for R200 or so or is mostly higher end say gaming and workstation computers that have these headers?
MS doesn't want an add on-device, nor do they want earlier gen devices that have TPM 2.0 in CPU but don't guarantee TPM 2.0 support in the motherboard chipset. This is entirely about them trying to guarantee the entire boot chain is secure for their own purposes.
Generally, it won't work. It seems that if you know your secret key, there is a way a support person can get it working but I wouldn't trust this to be true.
I operate on the premise of "minimum necessity" when it comes to requirements, so I despise the fact that Microsoft are mandating these additional requirements when it will run fine on existing hardware. Not only is it EXTREMELY wasteful, but it's completely unnecessary. Personally I don't have the ability to upgrade all of my machines to Windows 11 (and I really don't want to tbh) and so the ones that can't will be getting Linux I suppose.
Microsoft can be as desperate as they like to move me on to Windows 11. I'm just not doing it. They want me to throw out and replace three perfectly good computers. Well Microsoft can just get stuffed! I made up my mind years ago what I was going to do. Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, told me that Windows 10 was going to become End-Of-Life - but I couldn't have Windows 11 either - not that I actually wanted it. The computer I use for music and video production currently runs Windows 10 offline. It will STAY running Windows 10 offline. (There isn't a Linux replacement for BBCSO Core, so that's not an option for this machine. And no, I wouldn't even dream of trying to run BBCSO Core on a VM or in Wine). My other two Windows 10 machines - including my Daily Driver - are going to be Linux machines. Since the time I made that decision, Recall has firmly underlined the fact that I totally made the right decision.
Personally I think Windows 11 is great and have it on my newest system. It's my older (backup) system that I have hooked up to my Den TV that I'd like to easily upgrade. i7 4790K OC'd with an RTX 3080, a still very capable system for average needs. Yeah, I'll eventually upgrade it to Win 11 with one of the methods I have seen, but you shouldn't have to jump thru hoops.
Microsoft seriously does not understand what OS means to us users. I will start a proposal to limit all OS systems to individual modified NVMI devices that are sold physically. These devices will contain 2 processor cores and a little RAM, where TPM 2.0 will be present. This way, the OS will be limited to its location and will have to share space with the antivirus program. When the computer is started, the OS will be installed in the computer's RAM and will remain there in a size that does not interfere with the operation of other programs or applications. In the case of playing games or demanding RAM applications, the OS will move to its own RAM on the NVMI device. In such a configuration, the BIOS will take over the role of an individual OS system or IOS that will have no other task than ensuring the operation and security of the components in its system. This is what Windows should be doing, but it is too busy collecting and selling our data! At the same time, it will lose access to our hardware for its AI projects!
well one solution is do not upgrade cough cough if you don't have to get windows 11 if what you are doing continues to function fine. don't buy a new pc for it or get the new os period. i mean i did not get windows 10 for a few years until i bought a new pc for gaming.
@@supersaiyaman11589 That will work for a time, probably even for years, but eventually you'll start seeing software support for Windows 10 drop off. Windows 7 users are in that boat now, with all of the major web browsers having dropped support, and Steam as well, for those that use their rig for gaming. Mind you I am all for using an operating system for as long as you like. Just keep the expectations realistic.
Why are people making it as if this is a big deal? Microsoft is not bricking windows 10 next year, anyone with windows 10 can keep using it forever. Microsoft still lets anyone use Windows 7, 2000, XP and older if they desire. Microsoft is just stopping updating the software, people need to keep a grip. Beside W10 is almost 9 years old! Just keep on using Windows 10 forever or move on to Linux or buy a Mac or new PC.
Day 1 of Windows 10 dropping support there is a crowd of people out there that will start urging you to upgrade to a "secure" os that is still getting security patches. If a few years go by and you're still using Windows 10, you will then be the target of mockery and disdain as someone who is stuck in the past. People that are sticking to Windows 7 are dealing with this right now. Personally, I'm a firm believer that you should continue to use whatever os suits your needs, but it is a hard reality that software support will eventually fall off and holdouts will have to start scrounging for community made alternatives to web browsers and the like, something else that Windows 7 users are facing. I'm going to have to be finding a new web browser for my old Windows 7 machine, as the browser I've been using since I first picked up Windows 7 just dropped support for it with their latest update.
Microsoft's claims of a necessity for TPM 2.0 does not hold water. Pushing users onto Win 11 has nothing to do with security. It has more to do with conniving with Intel to sell their processors. Only a small percentage of computers running Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8.1, and 10 have any worry about security and that's mostly because users are careless about their online activities. It's the Big Money corporations that Microsoft and Intel are trying to leverage money from, while also enjoying profits they derive from from home users who fall for buying a new PC. It's massive extortion!
If it's a home computer, this isn't needed, comes down to what people are downloading or visiting. I am tired of Microsoft forcing people to buy new hardware just to support and OS and worse implement computer BOIS's to check to make sure you are running MS Windows if not it's too dangerous? Common sense is needed once again.
Most of our smartphones already encrypted, and we're taking it for granted (I'd say its good for your security in case if you lost it or sold without wiping, I personally was unlocking my password locked phone with all info intact before they started encrypting them, just to see how it works). This will also solve the issue with people throwing their drives away without wiping. But regular user will be screwed with whole their information being inaccessible. By the way, LTSC version of W11 will officially work without UEFI or secure boot for another 10 years on any hardware that can run it. Was the change necessary? No, was it for nothing? No. the only issue I have, is a huge amount of e-waste generated.
I really don't understand why all of this hard encryption with TPM 2.0, when they're going to run Co-Pilot and spill out all your data onto the cloud anyways.
From a security perspective I agree with MS, TPM is the well from which all the local encryption and hashing is drawn from, it is the only reason to migrate to Win11. No TPM, then you might as well stay with 10.
Every version of Windows ever since Vista has had full support for TPM, just as W11 has today. Just it wasn't automatically enabled, and it wasn't required either.
@@AAjax To be honest, I doubt they would manage. They haven't had any competent developers that can write low-level code since Vista or 7, as is proven by their inability to make their new W8/10/11 boot UI work properly.
Get you a copy of Linux Mint or Solus or Nobara or Garuda. All four of these represent different types of Linux distros to try out, and all of them are good. You can game on all of these. You can run a Windows 10 or Windows 7 or Windows 11 for that matter, virtual machine on all of these.
F Lose11. Stick with Lose10, go offline. Get a miniPC and run Linux for internet use. Webapps run in BROWSERS, not the computer's operating system. 64bit Linux distros available now have support until 2028 or 2029, and new versions will have support into the 2030s with current hardward, none of that "tpm" garbage. TPM: Thieves' Planned Moneywasting.
They can say "non negotiable" all they want, it's just like a dealer saying he won't budge on the price of a car that's been sitting on the lot for months. You win by walking away, no matter the outcome.
Yes, and it is easy to walk away from Win-11 for most people. People will also find that in most cases if they do switch to Linux to have continued support there will never be a reason to switch back.
It's also easy to modify, at least for now, to disable TPM.
@@kensmith5694 It's absurdly easy to walk away from Win11. It looks pretty, sure, but nothing works properly on it, and that's a deal breaker for me. After using it for 6 months, I upgraded back to 10, I just had enough.
I refuse to go back, and I won't buy pre-made machines with this OS on it. Any company that doesn't offer drivers for Win10 (at the very least) I refuse to buy from them as well.
My problem with forcing people to buy new computers in order to upgrade to Windows 11 for the sake of TPM 2. What is stopping Microsoft from doing that again in a couple years for some other security requirement? Computers aren't cheap. Plus with their addition of their spy software called "Recall", recording everything you do, What about user security? I'm switching to Linux. Good Bye Microsoft.
Forcing people Especially when your pc was built by yourself at a high cost or you have a decent laptop that cost more than your average cheap laptop..this is the deal breaker not only is it e waste its our expense which some of us cannot justify again.
Computers aren't cheap and people aren't willing to waste money on pcs like phones people need to switch to Linux
Some industry group will come out with TPM 3.0, or a new CPU instruction set. And microsoft will require those to sell more PCs and more windows licenses. It's a big treadmill to keep you paying.
recall can be disabled so that is a non issue as long as you research how to disable it.
@@supersaiyaman11589 Even if Recall can be disabled, its existence is a red flag. What other privacy invasive features can't be disabled that they aren't telling you about?
Declaring TPM 2.0 as 'non-negotiable' is a way of declaring war to your customers. If your PC or laptop ever fails completely then you would expect to simply take the SSD or NVMe to another machine and read all your critical data. Unless you noted the cryptic key for that thing which most people don't then you lost everything.
They know alot there customers won't move away from windows even after so many problem or slap in the face due to the depending of apps or games have anti cheat that only works on windows.
They already declared war when they issued their machine requirements back when W11 was released. The result? Many articles showing how to circumvent these "requirements". Microsnot have made efforts to block these and succeeded in some of them but not all of them - this declaration of the non-negotiability of TPM 2.0 sound to me like an admission of defeat.
Setup.exe /product server and you can upgrade from any iso.tpm or not.
@@ZaberfangX I don't get this supposed so many problems. I almost never have any problem with windows.
@@billyguthrie3176 My comment was about your computer hardware failing. You have this problem only if the hardware has significant issues. However everything eventually does fail. Then that TPM 2.0/BitLocker will be a very serious issue.
It just seems as if the only real reason to take a hard stance on requiring the TPM 2.0 is because they want the Recall feature to be included in all copies of Windows in the future... probably the best way to the truth is to follow the money.
How else are they supposed to record and sell our data?
They've already explained in the past that TPM 2 is needed to lock down the boot process.
Macs use a hardened bootloader and cryptographically signed read-only system partition. Windows needs TPM.2 to lock down its boot process. If something can get into your boot process they can change our whatever they want and you'd never know.
@@Pyrrho_ Oddly, Microsoft, as far as I've seen, hasn't cited any particular spate of firmware attacks (which is what TPMs are meant to protect against) to justify requiring the TPM, but rather merely stated general reasons. TPM tech has been out for 18 years and 2.0 for 10 years, yet they waited until now to require it.
The issue here is who gets to decide what is and is not a necessary security measure for your individual computer. Microsoft is going to have to either cave in on this one or face a serious market share drop. Maybe they should offer financial assistance to upgrade or buy a new computer. 🤷🏻♂
@AndrewKeifer Partly as if the market hasn't been shifting under their feet, partly as if the majority of their profit no longer comes from Windows.
@@Pyrrho_ that depends on what you mean by "no longer comes from windows." It's not as if Office 365 is primarily being used on some other OS, also they make money from servicing Windows and other software in the corporate sector and they've been using Windows to advertise for some years now, which is what, in my opinion, Recall is going to be used for. Yes, I know Microsoft says they won't use your data from Recall, but I don't believe everything Microsoft says. It dovetails quite well with requiring TPM 2.0 as a bulwark against being sued if your information is compromised due to their software.
The problem with TPM is that there isn't enough transparency *on Microsoft's end.* They tell you it's to enhance security, but in truth, the tech can be abused by said company, which compromises your security.
" They tell you it's to enhance security," yeah, but who's security eh? Do you think this is for your security? "Trusted Platform" is for big gov/corpo to trust that your system is theirs - or at least a part of it.
TPM is an ISO standard actually. If you want to know how it works, look at the source code for the Linux kernel's TPM driver.
@@soundspark Sounds like a good intention then. But do you know what they say the road to Hell is paved with?
@@soundspark The transparency I was referring to is on Microsoft's end. But yeah, there are distros that also use TPM The difference is, if there are any shenanigans going on, it's going to be discovered by the community.
@@LilaHikes And that alleged shenanigan wouldn't be the fault of the TPM chip itself.
Virtually every security risk people encounter will not be deferred by TPM.
This! I fix and sell computers and the #1 security threat is ADS! There's a fake "you have a virus!" pop-up with a scammer's phone number, the victim calls them, and lets them remote in, and the scammer logs into their bank account and transfers all their money out. How TF is a stupid TPM chip going to stop this? It isn't.
TPM is so that companies can trust your platform is secure and deliver you some content that you cannot copy.
Mostly due to Every part of an PC is an security risk
Motherboard
CPU
RAM
GPU
SSD
PSU - being from Wish and Temu
@@bobmcbob4399 yep, this is it. They want to turn the PC into an Xbox, with software and media only coming from the Microsoft Store. Developers will also need to pay a fee to be in the store, and MS will take a cut of every sale. In other words, MS wants to be Apple.
TPM 2.0 can still by bypassed and even brute forced in many different ways, so not as secure as they claim. The truth is if a bad actor wants access to something secure there is always a way to get around the security. Same with game copy protections, all security systems in general. The way in which the windows kernel was originally developed is the true reason to its flaw's. You have to remember back in the beginning no one expected Windows to be as big as it had become, the internet and cyber security was completely different back then. It really needs a re-write with added security in mind. What MS should of done was either create a light version of Windows 11 or even better just built on the Windows 10 and secured it more and let people carry on with that for standard Windows users, and have people who want the extra AI and extra features upgrade to Windows 11 if they wish. Personally if I want AI I will just add it at a later date not get it forced on me.
Setup.exe /product server and you can upgrade from any iso.tpm or not.
Actually, the Windows NT kernel is extremely secure and stable (as in fact those were the two major goals of it), and it's still perfectly fine. It's all the bloatware they've pushed ontop of it that is insecure and unstable.
The end goal of TPM being security related is just as laughable as the end goal for Facebook being "to connect people and sell advertising."
Seriously though, tpm isnt the issue its the cpu requirements and such, my 7th gen i5 lenovo laptop has tpm 2.0 but the cpu isnt supported
Seriously though the worst UI after Win8 (not 8.1) is the issue :).
Setup.exe /product server and you can upgrade from any iso.tpm or not.
TPM 2,0 is entirely the issue. 7th gen motherboard chipsets are 100 and 200 series, and TPM 2.0 support was optional. 8th gen and onward motherboards have chipsets with TPM 2.0 guaranteed to be functional.
The difference in single core performance between 7th gen and 8th gen is maybe 6%. You wouldn't be able to reliably pick out which CPU was which gen in a blind test.
@AAjax TPM is a 10 USD dongle - either internal if you have the mobo header or USB external. CPU requirements are a joke.
@@AAjax1st gen Ryzen has TPM by default yet isn't supported
Microsoft wants to create E-waste
VirtualBox 7 supports TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot. Thus I have Win 11 available on my Linux desktop whenever I want it.
You Linux proponents are like children ina kindergarten... LINUX is DEAD!
@@mica7191 why is linux dead 🤣🤣
@@d5gqwerty personally, I don't like aggression being imposed by linux enthusiasts, why does every linux enthusiast behave like a creep in its insists to push everyone to switch over
@@mica7191 That is the most ignorant statement I've heard in years!
@@Mega_Casual I won't switch to Linux... The rest of you, behave like real-life Terrifiers ... you'll never force people to switch...
Negotiation over, Linux won
I'm trying to apply some common sense to the TPM situation. Intel and Microsoft claim that TPM will cut down on cyberattacks. Maybe it does? But that can't be why Microsoft is mandating it. If your computer is attacked, whose problem is it? Yours. Is Microsoft hurt? I don't think so. So why have THEY decided it's all-important?
Who is it that presently can't be trusted on your computer? Users don't trust hackers, malware, etc. But I propose that it's YOU the system user that Microsoft doesn't trust. And the TPM is to protect them against you behaving as if the computer is your property to do with as you please. The TPM requirement is actually proof that you don't really own it, do you? If Microsoft were being honest they would say "your system security will be compromised by lack of a TPM". But that's not the issue at all.
Microsoft and developers for Windows HATE the idea that users think they own the software they use. That they can pay for it once and use it as long as it does the job. What these guys all wans is a subscription basis. Software runs only as long as you keep up paying the rent on it. The cost of the rent can be changed at any time, along with the rental terms. If the developers don't like ANYTHING that you're doing, they can take away your right to run it. The TPM gives them all the advantages in enforcing these rules.
What if your motherboard breaks? Well.... seems like all your software will stop working and the rent you paid for it will be gone with no recourse. You'll have to start all over paying for new copies. Is this the kind of computing world you want for yourself? I sure don't. "Just say no" to the TPM. It is not to your benefit.
The TPM 2.0 requirement can currently be bypassed with Rufus or by other means. With 24H2 they started hard enforcing the SSE4.2 requirement so it wouldn't surprise me if they start doing the same for TPM 2.0 in an update so be aware.
I believe they actually recompiled the Windows binaries to use SSE4.2 instruction set as standard.
Windows 10 is my last version of Windows. I have upgraded all my desktop and laptop devices to Linux. This is non-negotiable.
Re: "Non-Negotiable Necessity" Win11 24H2 IoT LTSC allows TPM, Secure Boot & UEFI to all be optional and has support till April 2034 meaning no feature updates so remains 24H2 till April 2034 so no e-waste, I just installed it today on an Intel I3-2120 CPU with 8GB RAM & SSD (for OS location) so 12-13 years old, seems to run quiet well. Real simple to activate.
"Feature" updates didn't even exist until Windows 10. Take a look at the very first version of Windows 7 and compare it to a fully updated version of Windows 7 with the latest service pack. It looks IDENTICAL. They ONLY thing Microsoft used to provide was security updates, and their OS was much better back then. Windows XP/7 were the best versions. They should just stop messing with Windows and try to create a good version and keep it secure.
@@thelbtlover With the AI garbage and telemetry stuff, Would someone even want feature updates?
TPM is mainly to secure their own interests, like software DRM but with a TPM. Why would a gaming system need all those security features that only take away clock cycles from game engines, tell us why that is so necessary Microsoft. The complete thing is a ruse , big tech been lying for so long to everyone, and because most people don't have a clue they get away with it.
Absolutely this. MS wants a walled garden, where they charge the entrance fee for any apps.
You do know TPM has been around for almost 20 years right? This is nothing new...
@@Innocuils Thx for your input Captain Obvious, but yes we knew, please be quiet.
yeah not regretting switching to linux as my primary OS last year, though at this rate I suspect I won't even be able to dual boot before long
The more they enforce, the more will discover LINUX
I've already converted 3 pcs to Linux Mint including one that meets the "requirements" for Windows 11. My only Windows device now is a Surface Pro 3 which has Windows 10. When they stop Windows 10 support, I will switch that one to Linux too. Screw Microsoft and their "requirements"".
I run Windows 11 on an old i5-4950 with a TPM v1.2 chip. Smooth as a ribbon.
Microsoft said there would be a watermark on unsupported Windows 11, there is none so far, but there may be in time to come.
that awful ....
It will most likely be a wallpaper watermark like the watermark shown on preview versions of Windows.
@@soundspark In Windows 7 I got rid of the watermark by deleting the WHAT folder. It was an unactivated Windows 7.
As long as it keeps working I’ll just keep using W10 without updates forcing reboots. Sounds like a win to me.
for now we can bypass tpm with rufus but for how long that will work one may never know
Rufus hopefully keeps coming out with workarounds. All hail Rufus.
I got 6 PC's that has no TPM or TPM disabled and it works fine. I needed to use a hack to be able to install Windows.
I suppose like I did to hack windows 7 to make it not need a COA, I turned it into an OEM version. It even allowed the update to win10 64bit pro. But my days of suffering windows are over.
Linux is calling me back home
Then Linux for systems that don't meet the requirements! Screw Microsoft!
I told Msoft to screw it in 2019. Linux all the way baby!
I've got Windows 11 running just fine on a 12 year old Thinkpad. Microsoft is in league with the hardware manufacturers trying to force you to buy an entirely new PC or laptop when there is absolutely no need to do so. It's a scam.
Microsoft has not been quiet about their desire to move their products to subscription services. I cannot help but think that this is a major step in this direction. I for one will refuse to suffer paying monthly subscription payments just to use Windows.
their not their yet windows 11 is not subscription based.now one would except renting an OS. also how would they implement that hypothetically.
don't worry it'll come free with your NZXT hardware rental, just the kind of free that costs an extra $20 a month
Ze bugs
@@supersaiyaman11589 You don’t think that Microsoft could take advantage of these new in hardware security features to their financial benefit? Sometimes I think we should all be so naive.
Not really.
@@supersaiyaman11589 Given how integrated Windows is with the internet since Windows 10, it would be pretty easy to implement. All they would have to do is have Windows run a verification check with their servers every so often, and if the check fails then they could disable functionality in Windows, or if they really wanted to they could disable it entirely. This would of course make it difficult to keep your system air gapped, since you would have to at least connect it to the internet every time it's time to re-verify that you have paid the subscription fee, but Microsoft wants you to use your online account with them to login instead of a local account anyways, so that does seem to be the direction they are pushing in.
That's why i permanently quit using Windows, every time I build a PC it will be Linux only, and every time I buy a PC, i 100% replace Windows with Linux, I also permanently deleted my Microsoft account!
Except it is not just TPM. Because I have an older motherboard woth a 4th gen processor, but it will take a TPM 2.0 module. If I could just install a TPM and be able to upgrade to Windows 11 that would be great, but I don't see that happening not with all their requirements for upgrading. More than likely Mictosoft is in bed with the chip and motherboard manfacturers and this is just a ploy to get everyone to upgrade even if they can't afford to. The result will be a huge number of people will stay on Windows 10 without security updates.
Another day another reason to upgrade from Windows 10 to Linux lol
microsoft's move is the best ad for people to switch to linux
Just going to move to a Linux distro.
My 12th Gen Intel CPU supports TPM 2.0, but I turned that setting off in my BIOS so my computer wouldn't upgrade to Windows 11. I'm not interested in that pile of hot steaming garbage. I will continue on Windows 10 until end of life next year and move to Linux Mint.
This was unironically the reason i now run arch. I have historically been a lazy windows user, adverse to change because of comfort. this broke the camel
THE BLURB --
"A Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is a specialized chip on a laptop or desktop computer that is designed to secure hardware with integrated cryptographic keys. A TPM helps prove a user's identity and authenticates their device...."
THE TRANSLATION FOR REAL PEOPLE --
" We need this in your PC so we can better align our advertising streams with your browsing habits, so we can send you the most AD's and also allow us access to our keyloggers, trackers, telemetry apps and hidden remote data transferring systems we built into the OS...."
I current;y have 5 PC's runnnig various Windows 11 versions. NOT ONE OF THEM has a TPM chip onboard but the bloat filled Windows 10 that is Windows 11 still runs fine...
TPM is just a nice way for MS to turn any PC into a form of ransomware. They use it to force encrypt the hard drive which is not good for any users.
tmp has bean around for a long time Microsoft did not come up with it. tmp 2.0 has bean around sense 2019
I already know were this is going soon after Windows 10 is EOL. They are going to implement harsher ways to force the requirement, and the simplest way is a check of the hardware & BIOS settings prior to booting if your hardware & settings is "not on the approved list" you get blue screened. Most in the tech world are crowing about circumventing the TPM requirements, but me truly knowing Microsoft for over thirty years knows that they are waiting for the best time to implement this.
This is not only about control, but it has always been about helping their OEM friends & partners make more money. They may loose general customer support, but organizations are the ones truly shackled to them... at least that is what Microsoft thinks. This will byte them in the butt in the long run. The other issue that'll hurt them involves copilot & recall, but that can be a rant for another time.
It's not just enriching their friends and partners. They want to lock down the entire boot chain, like an xbox. Then they have absolute control over what can and can not be installed on your PC, and can set up multiple toll roads.
I left the Msoft clown show in 2019. I went all Linux. Best move I ever made. TPM, Hello, ads, recall or other rubbish that msoft come up with: I will watch from the Linux cheap seats with popcorn.
@@musicalneptunian I have five PCs, and the last one which was used for Adobe & Steam is now going to be running Bazzite due to me not needing Adobe anymore as well as now 95% of my Steam/GOG library runs fine in Linux thanks to proton. Mind you I was during Windows 8 I was 100% on Linux as well until a job required me to go back. I stayed on my main rig due to only 40% of my games not working in wine at the time. However I used Linux along side Windows since the late 90's. My gripe is the 50+TB of data transferring (10TB is games alone) from NTFS to EXT4 it's gonna take a week of work to transfer & reorganize all that data, but it'll be worth it in the end.
Yeah, I don't believe Microsoft has any interest in my security. Meaning, I don't trust this. Most certainly not as a hardware feauture.
Only secure for companies to trust when they interact with your platform. See what they did there?
It's not just the TPM 2.0, but also the CPU that gives the biggest problems. From 7th gen and lower from Intel and AMD lower than ZEN 1 or ZEN 2 with the TPM 2.0 are already written off before they are properly tested by Microsoft. I also don't have the money to pay for 1 pc, 1 laptop with Windows 11. So Microsoft is slowly going through a big sinkhole from which they can no longer dig themselves. I am curious how they are going to get out of this.
Translatation in Dutch:
Het is niet alleen de TPM 2.0, Maar ook de CPU die de grootste problemen geeft. Vanaf 7th gen en lager van Intel en AMD lager dan ZEN 1 of ZEN 2 met de TPM 2.0 zijn al afgeschreven voordat ze goed zijn getest door Microsoft. Ik heb het geld ook niet om 1 pc, 1 laptop met Windows 11 te kunnen betalen. Dus Microsoft gaat langzamerhand door een grote sinkhol waar ze zelf niet meer uit kunnen graven. Ik ben wel benieuwd hoe ze hier uit gaan redden.
TPM 2.0 is a security technology that Microsoft invented and implemented to dominate everyone's computers. TPM 2.0 is only relevant to Microsoft. I have TPM 2.0 disabled in the Windows 11 installs and Windows 11 runs fine. TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot, both Microsoft technologies created to only dominate OS market, are disabled and provide not much importance except for dominant control.
Our Social housing organization is still running 40 T-61 laptops, and the remaining balance of the total 400 machines are at least ten years old. They do not see a need to upgrade since there is no internet access. They did a cost estimate including training, replacing, and rewriting and testing custom applications that are business critical. The total cost hit about 1.2 million or more than 25% of the organization's budget. So, the answer is no! Instead, they are looking at moving to Linux and using an emulator to facilitate existing custom applications. Even I am only in part time and on call. They have no formal IT organization to speak of and are not operating in an enterprise framework. They are social workers who have little to no understanding of IT and the benefits of a formal IT organization. Luckily, I retire in a couple of years and then they can go back to letting the head of maintenance handle the computer problems. He is also 60 years old and may not be around much longer either.
Excellent news for Linux users. Microsoft is forcing more people to use Linux so on their perfectly good hardware, so Linux will get more support.
I'm guessing it's for passkey/windows hello.
It's for DRM. So the corps can trust that your platform is secure. It's not for your security.
I guess my perfectly running i7-6770 won’t be rocking Windows moving forward.
This PC has TPM 1.2. I switched to the Beta Channel on Windows 10 some months ago and received the update to Windows 11 without any problems. it runs fine since then.
TPM2.0 has not much to do with people not upgrading to Win11. We do not want that trash! It's as simple as that!
i built a custom pc a few years ago for this very reason. i understand not everyone can or wants too. as long as i game on my pc i will have to keep up with the requirments for windows. not all of my games work on linux ( i've tried several times ).
i am running windows 10 and all my games still work fine what games don't run for you that you need windows 11 for out of curiosity.
@@supersaiyaman11589 forza motorsport 2024
What about those that has tpm 2.0 but they have a 6 th generation processor what then?
You can bypass it with Rufus but may have to do that at every Feature update (these are now yearly) or install Win11 24H2 IoT LTSC as TPM, Secure Boot and UEFI are an option requirement.
I've been very suspicious of Microsoft's insistence on a TPM, it reminds me of the Palladium/NGSCB project from about 20 years ago, which planned to use the TPM for hardware-enforced DRM. That may not be the goal nowadays though, especially with cloud computing allowing this to be enforced server-side. But one thing where it does come in is with Windows Hello. There's an excellent blog post from Elcomsoft about this, called "No TPM No Security". Without a TPM, a 4 or 6-digit PIN (the defaults) can be defeated in less than 3 minutes. So Windows Hello is arguably insecure without a TPM.
It's very easy to get me and others to upgrade to windows 11, simply take away bitlocker and device encryption from home users, that's the only thing stopping me from upgrading.
I'm going to make a video soon. All the connections that I had to block that relates to remote access and phone linking and cross platform linking and recall....this is absolutely unacceptable
Yeah and I hope more ppl wish push back vs bloated windows 11. This is there worst os yet. Even over vista imo.
If enough ppl stay on windows 10. They won’t be able ignore us.
- Almost every new generation of hardware has some extra security. And of course every new software has some form of extra security.
2step authentification, inclusion of firewalls, bitlocker, https: it has never been different. So what makes TPM so singular that it requires scrapping billions of perfectly working systems?
- TPM is only effective against 'evil mate' attacks: Physical access to a system while it is still powered on, to extract inlog- / decription data from live memory. Yes, those attacks exists, and no, those attacks do not amount to even 0,1% of all malicious activities. So what makes this specific risk so urgent?
- Most (all?) systems have a form of fTPM (firmware-based TPM instead of a seperate chip) available since 2008. A system with the same intention, and some argue that it is even more safe then with a seperate chip. So what proven extra safety / functionality is provided by TPM?
I could perfectly understand if MS Defender would suggest or even require that a form of TPM should be active if available.
Maybe someone could explain to me why a dedicated TPM chip is the way forward.
But the risk for home users and for 99% of business is so low that dropping support for all pre- 8th gen Core processors is just plain criminal.
What happens now is evident: Some will comply and shell out cash for a new system. Others will find ways to stay on Win 10 (some still find ways to use Win 7 today!). Others will bypass the checks installing Win 11, and hope MS will not brick their devices with some future update. Yet othes will ditch Windows, either to Linux or to Apple.
I am typing this on a Yoga 370 with 7th generation Core i processor. Not feeling the slightest urge to replace it. I will install Win 11 oktober '25, and have a Linux installation stick in my top drawer. And if I have to switch, I'll switch with all 10 systems I maintain, because of ease of maintenance and continuity in user interface.
''only verified software is executed..''
Does that mean that anything not having a paid MS certification will not run or I am getting it wrong?
Maybe that is part of their plan.. I mean there is a lot of open source software that is not certified by ms but is safe to run..
In the long run, I expect that is the trend. Windows computers will come without a keyboard and a toggle switch. You can either watch a cat video or play solitaire and that is all.
Le problème pour moi c'est l'obsolescence forcée par Microsoft pour faire plaisir aux fabricants d'ordinateurs pour vendre plus d'ordinateurs. Si on a un ordinateur qui est capable de faire tourner Windows 11 sans TPM 2.0, on devrait pouvoir continuer à l'utiliser. Je n'ai rien contre TPM 2.0, c'est même une bonne chose mais il faudrait qu'il soit synchronisé avec les besoins des utilisateurs. Si un ordinateur ne peut pas fonctionner pour une autre raison que TPM 2.0 et que cela ne peut pas être résolu d'une manière ou d'une autre, alors, pas de problème, il est temps de changer d'ordinateur. Par contre, obliger les gens à payer pour l'achat d'un nouvel ordinateur qui peut encore fonctionner sans problème, cela montre le manque de compréhension de l'impact sur les budgets d'achat des utilisateurs et un manque de conscience environnementale pour un ordinateur qui peut encore répondre aux besoins des gens.
If it's such a "non-negotiable" requirement than wny is it that Windows 11 IoT Enterprise and IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024 do not require it? It's not like the average user really cares about Bitlocker or Windows Hello.
Because the normal average Joe user is scum to Msoft. Your purpose is to see ads and play Candy Crush.
As I've said before, Microsoft have tried this on a couple of previous occasions and have suffered as a result. What they have to remember is that this is a piece of software that is run on a computer provided by the computer owner, not the other way around. I still have Windows 7 machines available to me and older versions virtualised (thanks to Linux!)
Suffered greatly to be the third largest company in the world
What about all the Intel 5th and 6th gen PCs which do have TPM 2.0 that are also unsupported?
It's all BS from MS. A lot of older PC's will run it fine and better than some of the dual core pieces of garbage that are on their compatible lists. TPM 2.0 is microsofts way of discouraging the install of other OS's.
But I suppose you have to ask yourself at what point does the hardware become obsolete with it's USB2.0 ports, no NVME slots and Wifi g spec's? Great for projects but as a daily driver not so much. Those PCs if you want to keep using would be better suited to a Linux distro than the bloated Win11 anyway.
It depends on the use case, though. My elderly mother and mother in-law both use their PCs to visit a handful of sites, read email, etc. Single core performance gains, generation over generation, have been seeing diminishing returns. There isn't really a performance reason for their use case, as to why their 6th or 7th gen computers need to be turned into e-waste.
@@AAjax My point was more so that some older i7s and such aren't compatible to run Win11 whereas a newer single or dual core is. When you look at something like benchmark, the older i7 still out performs newer single and dual core CPUs regardless of use case. Just another way for MS to gate keep
@@peterschmidt9942 Yeah, I agree with this, which was your first point. My response was to your second point, about obsolete USB 2.0, no NVMI, old WIFI naturally pushing out Windows usage - not true for all use cases.
@@AAjax Personally I think if you don't have at least some form of SSD to run windows at this point in time, it's abundantly slow to the point of almost unusable. Besides, for a lot of people that just want to check their FB, read the occasional website and do some banking would probably have switched to a tablet of some sort other than a PC.
@@peterschmidt9942 Fortunately all of the systems we're talking about support SATA SSD drives. NVME is faster, but mostly for large transfers. Windows boot time between SATA SSD and NVME differs by a second or two.
According to Pew Research in 2021, 61% of seniors own a desktop or laptop computer, and 53% own a tablet. I expect there's a lot of overlap, with many owning both.
How does this affect Microsoft's refurbishment program for older hardware being performed by social enterprises and computer store retailers?
If you change your processor the TPM can be a real pain in the ass. I Upgraded from Ryzen 3700 to x5900 when TPM Key did not match it ask for password but it locked me out from using it and it would not take my Windows hello eather ... even my backs where locked to 3700 TPM Chip .. I was screwed and had start over .. I HATE TMP!!!
Microsoft doesn't care.
With Rufus you can create a bootable USB stick that still allows you to install Windows 11 on a Pentium 4 (if you're into that kind of thing), so these "requirements" are utter nonsense.
Yes, it will run butt cheeks on a P4 and BitLocker will not work properly, but the OS itself will run as long as there are at least Windows 7 (x64) drivers for your more exotic hardware.
I have it running just fine on a Intel Core2Quad with 16GB of DDR2 RAM, an old Samsung SATA SSD and a cheap GT610 for video acceleration in UA-cam.
Rufus can remove this requirement, and Windows 11 runs fine without it. I used the bypass on my Windows 11 Pro install, and it works, in some ways, better than my 10 Pro install.
I would rather go back to win 7 then go to 11
My hardware supports TPM 2.0........ but I only run Linux so its all moot.
I'm thinking of going to Windows 7 or back to XP tbh. Everything I'm required to do can be done on 7 for sure and I found some work arounds for XP
I ditched win10 pro this past summer and installed Linux Mint. It’s perfect for me and the few windows apps that I use work perfectly under Wine.
I'd recommend 7 over XP since XP is just too archaic at this point. Most software coming out these days requires 64-bit, which you won't have for XP unless you specifically have the 64-bit version, which by my understanding isn't as stable as the 32-bit version. Even with Windows 7 you're looking at software support drying up pretty rapidly, with none of the major web browsers supporting it anymore and the same with Steam, if you use that for gaming.
This seems like another reason that people need to start installing Linux on a bunch of boxes that won't run Win-11. We really really don't need to be generating huge piles of e-waste when perfectly good hardware could easily serve their owners with something like Linux Mint installed. This is a purely optional ecological disaster that is being created.
0:44 into video...@BrenTech all you have to mention is that the full install of 24H2 on unsupported system will run a red flag with Microsoft's update patch and any further patches. They in turn will block the system specifying it is unsupported. I have experience in this via going the whole nine yards to see if the 24H2 instal would update with no fuss on many an unsupported system and too no avail. Don't shoot the messenger! Peace. ☮☮💕💕
TPM is not necessary.... at least not on my PC.... which is only TPM 1.2 (although it required a little tweak during installation).
My PCs will not run Windogs 11 -- that is my Non-Negotiabile Necessity.
It is not about hardware requirements or TPM, it is about how these corporations try to milk customers and try to control them. Even spying on customers is now on the table. Basically your PC, that you bought, is not working for you, but for Redmond.
I take the philosophical approach. If someone wants to spy on me, what will they learn? They'll learn that I'm just like a significant percentage of several billion other computer users - wee all pee and poop daily. LOL!
@@pibbles-a-plenty1105 THat is the reason, corporations do it to you.
Going to try Bazzite OS on my gaming PC prior to end of support for Windows 10.
For every day tasks any Linux Distro will do on an old laptop.
Oh its negotiable alright by not installing 11 or bypassing when installing it. My PC has support for Win 11 but I have all the requirements disabled in the Bios. On 10 right now and plan to keep using it. .Looking at Linux distributions right now.
Don't many computers have a TPM header that can just buy and install a TPM 2.0 device for R200 or so or is mostly higher end say gaming and workstation computers that have these headers?
MS doesn't want an add on-device, nor do they want earlier gen devices that have TPM 2.0 in CPU but don't guarantee TPM 2.0 support in the motherboard chipset.
This is entirely about them trying to guarantee the entire boot chain is secure for their own purposes.
microsoft - you must have tpm 2.0 and a 8th gen and beyond intel cpu for win 11
windows 10 has biggest market share
Microsoft *Shocked face*
Microsoft : TPM 2.0 is Non-Negotiable
User : So my 7th gen CPU with TPM 2.0 will eventually by supported right ?
Microsoft : Anakin Face
Ok, not with rufus.
So if I have a Motherboard problem and I remove the hard drive to an other system it wouldn't work... or will it boot without problems... just asking
Generally, it won't work. It seems that if you know your secret key, there is a way a support person can get it working but I wouldn't trust this to be true.
I operate on the premise of "minimum necessity" when it comes to requirements, so I despise the fact that Microsoft are mandating these additional requirements when it will run fine on existing hardware. Not only is it EXTREMELY wasteful, but it's completely unnecessary.
Personally I don't have the ability to upgrade all of my machines to Windows 11 (and I really don't want to tbh) and so the ones that can't will be getting Linux I suppose.
Microsoft can be as desperate as they like to move me on to Windows 11. I'm just not doing it. They want me to throw out and replace three perfectly good computers. Well Microsoft can just get stuffed! I made up my mind years ago what I was going to do. Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, told me that Windows 10 was going to become End-Of-Life - but I couldn't have Windows 11 either - not that I actually wanted it. The computer I use for music and video production currently runs Windows 10 offline. It will STAY running Windows 10 offline. (There isn't a Linux replacement for BBCSO Core, so that's not an option for this machine. And no, I wouldn't even dream of trying to run BBCSO Core on a VM or in Wine). My other two Windows 10 machines - including my Daily Driver - are going to be Linux machines.
Since the time I made that decision, Recall has firmly underlined the fact that I totally made the right decision.
I did a laptop repair on a pc on win11 with 21h2, it couldn't be updated because the CPU isn't supported anymore.
Personally I think Windows 11 is great and have it on my newest system. It's my older (backup) system that I have hooked up to my Den TV that I'd like to easily upgrade. i7 4790K OC'd with an RTX 3080, a still very capable system for average needs.
Yeah, I'll eventually upgrade it to Win 11 with one of the methods I have seen, but you shouldn't have to jump thru hoops.
Non negotiable boss.
Microsoft seriously does not understand what OS means to us users. I will start a proposal to limit all OS systems to individual modified NVMI devices that are sold physically. These devices will contain 2 processor cores and a little RAM, where TPM 2.0 will be present. This way, the OS will be limited to its location and will have to share space with the antivirus program. When the computer is started, the OS will be installed in the computer's RAM and will remain there in a size that does not interfere with the operation of other programs or applications. In the case of playing games or demanding RAM applications, the OS will move to its own RAM on the NVMI device. In such a configuration, the BIOS will take over the role of an individual OS system or IOS that will have no other task than ensuring the operation and security of the components in its system. This is what Windows should be doing, but it is too busy collecting and selling our data! At the same time, it will lose access to our hardware for its AI projects!
if a large amount do not walk away at this point were all screwed
they won't
well one solution is do not upgrade cough cough if you don't have to get windows 11 if what you are doing continues to function fine. don't buy a new pc for it or get the new os period. i mean i did not get windows 10 for a few years until i bought a new pc for gaming.
@@supersaiyaman11589 That will work for a time, probably even for years, but eventually you'll start seeing software support for Windows 10 drop off. Windows 7 users are in that boat now, with all of the major web browsers having dropped support, and Steam as well, for those that use their rig for gaming. Mind you I am all for using an operating system for as long as you like. Just keep the expectations realistic.
I decrypted my computer after a fresh offline install a blocked bitlocker connections.
Still bothering with windows??
Why are people making it as if this is a big deal?
Microsoft is not bricking windows 10 next year, anyone with windows 10 can keep using it forever.
Microsoft still lets anyone use Windows 7, 2000, XP and older if they desire.
Microsoft is just stopping updating the software, people need to keep a grip. Beside W10 is almost 9 years old!
Just keep on using Windows 10 forever or move on to Linux or buy a Mac or new PC.
It's because they do not understand and it's scary to them.
Day 1 of Windows 10 dropping support there is a crowd of people out there that will start urging you to upgrade to a "secure" os that is still getting security patches. If a few years go by and you're still using Windows 10, you will then be the target of mockery and disdain as someone who is stuck in the past. People that are sticking to Windows 7 are dealing with this right now. Personally, I'm a firm believer that you should continue to use whatever os suits your needs, but it is a hard reality that software support will eventually fall off and holdouts will have to start scrounging for community made alternatives to web browsers and the like, something else that Windows 7 users are facing. I'm going to have to be finding a new web browser for my old Windows 7 machine, as the browser I've been using since I first picked up Windows 7 just dropped support for it with their latest update.
forcing us to use w$11 is also non-negotiable...
there are other OS available...
Microsoft's claims of a necessity for TPM 2.0 does not hold water. Pushing users onto Win 11 has nothing to do with security. It has more to do with conniving with Intel to sell their processors. Only a small percentage of computers running Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8.1, and 10 have any worry about security and that's mostly because users are careless about their online activities. It's the Big Money corporations that Microsoft and Intel are trying to leverage money from, while also enjoying profits they derive from from home users who fall for buying a new PC. It's massive extortion!
If it's a home computer, this isn't needed, comes down to what people are downloading or visiting. I am tired of Microsoft forcing people to buy new hardware just to support and OS and worse implement computer BOIS's to check to make sure you are running MS Windows if not it's too dangerous? Common sense is needed once again.
Most of our smartphones already encrypted, and we're taking it for granted (I'd say its good for your security in case if you lost it or sold without wiping, I personally was unlocking my password locked phone with all info intact before they started encrypting them, just to see how it works). This will also solve the issue with people throwing their drives away without wiping. But regular user will be screwed with whole their information being inaccessible. By the way, LTSC version of W11 will officially work without UEFI or secure boot for another 10 years on any hardware that can run it. Was the change necessary? No, was it for nothing? No. the only issue I have, is a huge amount of e-waste generated.
I really don't understand why all of this hard encryption with TPM 2.0, when they're going to run Co-Pilot and spill out all your data onto the cloud anyways.
You pay for a new computer but MS owns it through "Recall."
From a security perspective I agree with MS, TPM is the well from which all the local encryption and hashing is drawn from, it is the only reason to migrate to Win11. No TPM, then you might as well stay with 10.
Encryption? If you are a big enterprise you needs that, but if you are a normal user why you need disk encryption?
Every version of Windows ever since Vista has had full support for TPM, just as W11 has today. Just it wasn't automatically enabled, and it wasn't required either.
Run Linux and you can still use Office 365 in Firefox 😀
i just installed win 11 on a aging laptop which does not have tpm 2
Better avoid updates. It's trivial for MS to start enforcing TPM 2.0, but they won't until Windows 11 reaches a critical mass.
@@AAjax To be honest, I doubt they would manage. They haven't had any competent developers that can write low-level code since Vista or 7, as is proven by their inability to make their new W8/10/11 boot UI work properly.
Get you a copy of Linux Mint or Solus or Nobara or Garuda. All four of these represent different types of Linux distros to try out, and all of them are good. You can game on all of these. You can run a Windows 10 or Windows 7 or Windows 11 for that matter, virtual machine on all of these.
Ya will own nothing !! TPM, IME, Virtualization
Great commercial for Linux
Only have one PC on 11 and have no plains to change.
F Lose11. Stick with Lose10, go offline. Get a miniPC and run Linux for internet use. Webapps run in BROWSERS, not the computer's operating system. 64bit Linux distros available now have support until 2028 or 2029, and new versions will have support into the 2030s with current hardward, none of that "tpm" garbage.
TPM: Thieves' Planned Moneywasting.
They don't seem to understand that one of our greatest security concerns is them! 🤷♂