Cayenne Owner’s Update - Was a used eHybrid a good choice? | Everyday Driver
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- It’s been almost 9 months since Todd upgraded his wife’s daily and their family car, to a 2017 Porsche Cayenne eHybrid. In this update he revisits their search, and the adventures and experience that have happened since. Expensive tires, real MPG, and running costs all get discussed and we look forward to lots more in this on-going series.
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And thanks to our friends at Vredestein.com, for having tires for these monster wheels!
00:00 - 1:35 More Miles than expected
1:35 - 2:37 How we found this Cayenne
2:37 - 4:03 Real world benefits of eHybrid
4:03 - 5:53 dealing with 21” wheels in winter
5:53 - 9:28 Good news, Bad news
9:28 - Assessments and Costs
#Porsche #Cayenne #Family #SUV #vredestein #autotempest
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See, this was great. This is the kind of what-is-it-like-in-real-life info that useful and rare. Thanks, and keep these coming.
Glad you enjoyed. Thank you for watching!
Great and (apparently) honest review - best part for me was your tire change info with the emphasis on "all-weather" and how to drive in winter conditions - I think too many people believe that an AWD SUV makes them invincible!!
Back in April I bought a 2016 Cayenne S with similar mileage. (the TTv6 not the hybrid) I probably average 17-19mpg (maybe 22-23 on long road trips). Its versatility is really amazing, I’ve driven aggressively on small California backroads, and pulled a 24 foot airstream across the county with all of my worldly belongings in the back. I’ve driven it on two 2400 mile roads as well. It just does everything without drama. Great cars.
Balls of steel right there to firmly commit to buying a higher mileage hybrid Porsche! You're living vicariously for many of us.
lol, true dat! these can easily be money pits.
I've seen this exact build going for $20-24k.... On a vehicle with an original sticker of +/-$100k. Nobody will EVER take a bigger hit than the original purchaser
Thanks for the update, Todd. Glad to see the car is working out well for your family. Hopefully we can get more long term updates on the other cars in yours and Paul's fleet (I realize the Lotus and the Paul's Porsches wouldn't be until they come out again in the Spring).
Fantastic consumer-based review that shows Todd's experience and the utility of a used Cayenne Hybrid! Just what I was looking for
I recently purchased a 2016 Cayenne Turbo. Thc car was certified and came with new tires and brakes. I'm amazed a vehicle with 80k miles looks and drives like a new car. 18 way seats, sport chrono, heated and cooled everything and even has sport design package. It even has soft close doors. Original MSRP was 135k. I got it for 44K. I feel like it's a steal considering it's under warranty for 2 years.
Iit's a 7 year old even 8 year old vehicle with 80k miles. Not a steal.
@@chazonyoo considering these engines can go for hundreds of thousands of miles and still drive well (they're not kias) it IS a steal. I had an Audi s8 v10 with over 450,000 kms on it and it was amazing.
@@shutthefupdonnnie again not a steal. A decent deal.
I used to think the Porsche SUVs were just for brand-snobs but man was I wrong. When you want a daily that is practical and comfortable for the family without trading anything in performance, these check the box so well.
We sold our Kia Telluride a couple of years ago (due to poor towing performance) and got a 2017 Cayenne S (twin turbo V6). Non-air ride suspension. We LOVE this car! It's amazing how quick and how well it handles for such a big car/SUV. Does pretty decent on gas milage as well, but not as good as your e-hybrid. Strongly considered one of those when I purchased mine, but was nervous about potentially Very Costly repairs to the e-hybrid system/battery....
Just buy Cayennne Diesel
@@lietuvis96it's hard to find a decently spec'd diesel and even if you do in the north American market you immediately have to drop $2,500 into them for a high pressure fuel pump upgrade and a tune because they were designed for European diesel which provides greater lubricity, the pumps are known to catastrophically fail running on US diesel and take the engine with them.
Glad to read this because I considered the Kia Telluride but bought a 2017 Cayenne S.
How’s the towing?
So how was the maintenance like?
@@nathanrarangol402 Towing has been pretty good with the Cayenne.... :-)
Love these ownership updates
I bought my 08 S because of your videos. It's pretty great.
Hi, from Japan!! I like you describe how your wife uses the car. I’m also glad to know you have done 2200miles trip with your family. I always feel your family is great.
A practical review that more of us can use. Thank you!
Surnames aren’t the cheapest to fix but they’re at least somewhat reliable. My uncle just sold his 2011 Cayenne S 4.8 and it had 421,000 km on the clock. Ran awesome still.
Solid review! I love my 17’ Cayenne S on air. Best vehicle I’ve owned. Only complaint is fuel economy haha. Sometimes I wish I had a diesel, but as others have mentioned - very tough to find diesel model with air and other features.
Love the real-world updates.
Oh man, you bought this one right before I went to look at it! Glad it has been good
Don't forget- this hybrid system wasn't released as an efficiency option, it was actually developed as a performance option that can also provide a little better efficiency as a byproduct. I think that's cool!
I find it much more seamless than the stop start on the regular Cayenne.
Love your Honesty.
Great review mate
Great review!
Our factory ordered 2015 Q7 TDi was recently written off 😢 and we’ve been looking at practically everything since last summer.
Well we found it and bought it, a 2018 cayenne s e-hybrid platinum edition with only 48,000 km. The great part of this deal is we bought from a Porsche dealership with 2 years unlimited kilometres. So as I’ve read in the comments, if the sunroof leaks or the battery dies or whatever happens outside of regular maintenance we’re covered.
@everydaydriver Thank you for the Excellent ownership review and update. I like hearing all the details of what you and your wife like/dislike about your 2017 Cayenne.
Our family hauler is a 2017 volvo xc90 with 75k miles but not PHEV. White with black/tan interior. Bought it last year for $25k. We're averaging about 23mph.
Thanks for the tip about the Vredestein tires. In our year of ownership for our 2017 volvo xc90 weve spent about $2k to replace all four of the brake calipers, rotors.
We also own at 2010 vovlo xc60 which my daughter drives most of the time.
We love our volvos! It will be interesting to see how it compares to your Cayanne over the years of ownership. Cheers!
its insane how much of a value these used Cayenne's are. TBH this wasn't on my radar for a car I wanna buy, my next car purchase will likely be a GR86. But after watching this I looked up some for sale. $25-35k gets you a clean example, that's mind blowing to me lol. Almost makes me wanna get one, I just cant shake my fears of long term reliability with a porsche e-hybrid product. Time will tell tho, it seems like yours is holding up great!
Get a CPO Cayenne. Porsche has the best CPO warranty.
I have the Touareg Hybrid with the same stuff. My wife uses it as her commuter. Has plenty of power and can tow my GTI just fine to the track. I have a 160k on it and besides the basic maintenance that I keep up on nothing is really needed. Not a bad idea to invest into a OBD11 as the cayenne and Touareg use an Audi Engine and it’s good for resetting things and for knowing when codes come up.
I recently swapped out my Touareg for a Cayenne. Sadly the VW/Audi diagnostic tools do not work with Porsche. The difference in performance, ride quality, and so on from the Touareg to the Porsche is much larger than I was expecting. The Touareg was really nice, but the Porsche is on a whole other level.
Todd’s world is happy! 🎉
Yes to an Overland Cayenne and an Alaskan-Arctic Road strip?!?
Thanks for the review. I wanted one of these in early 2022, but the used prices weren't competitive. I bought a new Audi e-tron instead, which has been great.
Love your ownership updates. We have the same car and I can confirm your figures. I just wish we could find a battery pack upgrade to maximize the range with some newer battery tech. (If anyone knows where to do that, pls let me know) Otherwise super happy with the car.
Really nice looking ride!
Have the little handle pocket thingys in my 16 cayenne. Definitely the way to go to add some space for a phone, chapstick, etc.
Happy turkey day, guys 🦃🦃🦃
So I just committed to the 2024 BMW X5 50e.
I am floored at the usability and functionality of the PHEV platform. I am coming out a 2021 M550i (with a 530hp twin turbo V8) and I can honestly say I am not at a loss of power (however I do miss the v8 growl)
I couldn’t commit to a full EV and decided to try a transitional PHEV.
Please do a review of the 24’ X5 50e. You will be pleasantly surprised
Very good review. I’ve been wanting a panamera for a few years but honestly I want an suv now since my family got bigger and a cayenne would be a solid choice. Wasn’t a fan of the mpg but then I found about these e hybrids and I’m adding this to my next car purchase list
Funny, I used to drive on Vredestein Quatracs here in Germany for years 😁. Multiple cars, the tire is a good choice for all seasons. Good on dry roads in the summer, often a week point of all seasons.
Porsche has the best seats I've sat in in my life.
I was checking this generation Cayenne at the NY Auto show when it was introduced.
It was a European spec. Might have to do with it 😂.
That's such a good looking spec for a Cayenne and I love the wheels even though I know it makes the tires super expensive. I had a 2018 Macan GTS that had a similar interior and I agree that it was extremely useful and very tactile thanks to all the physical controls and buttons. Thanks for the update and please keep them coming!
Todd’s world is happy!🙂
Vredestein Quatrac Pro 21” 295s are about $1715 + installation, according to Tire Rack. So about $2,100 of first-year costs.
Great info for those of us who are looking to get a used Cayenne for the future. For me the reliability of most modern Porches really attract me to them. The only concern I have is with the dynamic suspension which took a crap on my Range Rover and was very expensive to fix. Hope Porsche does a better job in this aspect.
sorry about the Range. were there any other issues with it? kind of considering one
@@victormwenda4906 It feels very heavy but some might like that. The interior room is great but not as posh as the other Rovers. I like everything about it besides the engine. I just don't think the supercharge + turbo setup. If you're going to lease it for 3 years, then great.
@@turkishexpress thanks for your response. you still own and drive it?
2017 is right in that UI sweet spot for the Cayenne with all the buttons on the console and CarPlay on the touchscreen. A year prior you wouldn't get CarPlay and in 2019 the buttons were reduced in the revised interior. Mine's a 2017, as well, and it's tried to kill me financially but when it's not trying to ruin me it's a great drive. Thanks for the tire suggestion, as well, there aren't a tremendous number of options at that size.
What issues have you had with yours?
what issues
@@m.hfitness Multiple lighting failures that required entire new assemblies. Both rears and one front so far.
@@devinlocke8538 How much did it ding your wallet, if you dont mind me asking
Should've bought Diesel if you want great mpg. I had upto 32mpg on highway on mine. I ended up selling it with 125k miles, was afraid it would end up having issues. Right after i sold it, rear lock broke and interior blower fan stopped working. Aside from that i had generator replaced, major coolant leak fixed, carbon cleaned, and bunch of exhaust work done on the car.....all covered by warranty
'16 S and it's been great. But recently took a mini dump with Airbag light and something with the coolant/thermostat. Don't forget the mini motor on the louvre that fail. One caliper nut bolt came off (replaced a caliper). Besides that and getting all season tires instead of sports tires, the ride is great if roads are decent.
The grab handle pockets are super handy to have, try them out.
I'm all for the off-road Cayenne build. Yes! If I was building an overland rig (which I'm not), an early Cayenne would be my 2nd choice. First choice is a first-gen Durango, because I have a lot of experience with that Dak/Dur platform. Obviously a Cayenne will never match the sheer aftermarket breadth of Jeeps and Toyotas. But, I think with tires and light armor, maybe diff upgrades if the need arises, a Cayenne should be capable of anything a reasonable human being might ask of it off-road.
Dang it!! I looked at that same Cayenne at Greenwood Automotive hahah. You thief, you!! Glad it’s working out great. I’m still looking!!
Me too! Although I didn’t make it to the dealer before it was sold.
I am so temped by these, but the fact that I never find one certified is concerning as I can a find every other Cayenne variant as far back as 2013. Thanks for the update, a 958.2 base is probably what I’ll go after. Happy Thanksgiving!
Idk if it's an audi thing or just a state thing. But here in Florida, literally no audi is certified unless it's less than a year old. And only base model macans are certified.
Did the original Cayenne have the N/A V6? I have that engine in my Passat and am curious if the timing chain on yours lasted. I've done frequent oil changes, often well before designated intervals and my motors never burned oil or gotten warm, so hoping it's in good knick.
Great update, what is happening with those cargo pants?
Great video! I wish someone with a PHEV would do an in depth explanation of exactly how it works, and not just stay its ev only range. What happens on a 2k plus mile road trip? Does the battery ever run out and your just running on gas? Or are these PHEV just hybrids with more battery capacity thus requiring a plug. IDK
On the locking charge cord issue, just walk up to the drivers side rear door with key in pocket or purse. Touch the door handle to unlock the vehicle. The charge cord will be unlocked for 10 seconds and you can pull out the plug. No need to dig for a key.
Very nice video! I just bought the same car from some customer of my mechanic, I’ll have it after Christmas and I’m looking forward after your update. Since 2008 I had 955 3.2 and 4.5, then 957 turbo, and I’m now replacing a 958.1 S. I hope the fuel economy will be much better as I won’t be able to charge it everyday :)
Please let us know how is your experience so far
I’m driving this Cayenne S e-hybrid for about a month now… I must say that I’m so disappointed with the car. To me, keep plugging the car everyday is complete non sens. The consumption is really bad, it takes about 12l /100km in town and about 15l on the way (160-170 km/h in Czechia). I’m also using very often a 958.2 3.0 diesel from work, and this a great car. This hybrid is completely dumb véhicule to me. My conclusion is that I’m gonna sell it asap. It’s not matching my driving style, it feels heavy, very disappointed!
We love the 750 mile range on a tank full on our 13 Cayenne Diesel. If and when something fails in the hybrid it will cost an arm and a leg.
Well I've had about $20-25k worth of work done on my Cayenne diesel. Got rid of it with 125k miles, just in case
I have a 2013 Cayenne. It’s a non turbo non hybrid and gets 26 mpg. I love everything about it but it eats tires. It had 50k miles on it when I bought it. I put on a set of the OEM Perelli tires $1350. 30k miles later I got something cheaper. Still over $850.
Would be nice if you could change the battery to a new one that is compatible and have much bigger impact
I drive the 14 VW Touareg TDI. As I write, on the verge of 187,000 miles. Oil cooler and water pump replaced. All interval maintenance ahead of schedule. 10,000 mile oil changes are not recommended for longevity, try 5,000. Very well built and durable.
I had the Panamera version of this and it was an absolute money pit.
How’s the air suspension? Reliable as well?
Porsche need/should bring back more physical buttons.
Just sold my 2012 Range Rover Sport with the 5.0 NA V8 and got a 2014 Cayenne Base. I immediately like the handling of the Cayenne(Precise yet still comfortable). however mine does not have the air ride, and the suspension is a lot stiffer than the RRS. I like it I like it a lot! Being a base it just has a VR6 engine which, sometimes, is lacking a bit power on the highway, and thats the only downside!
Is the old Cayenne still around or has it departed your fleet?
Seems like it has been a good car to own.
Good morning, I’m looking at purchasing a 2016 Cayenne with 84,900 miles for 22k. Do you think it’s worth it? What are some things I should be weary of?
Crazy value on these now. Paid 69k for my 17 GTS during Covid.
Damn you need to get those seats detailed. The shiny luster is just body oils embedded into the leather. Car leather is never shiny from factory, its completely matte.
How's the towing?
Is Paul’s corvette okay? I saw it with front and back damage at a collision center in Park City. With the Everyday driver sticker and the gold rims.
On the podcast they mentioned that there was an encounter with the local deer population.
Love it
instant like :)
Cool video. I look forward to updates. Give us the brutal truth please, if things go wrong (hope they don't).
man you always get the fam cars I want, from the Lancer Sportback to this lol, trying to score one under 25k for the federal tax cred
The seats on the first generation Cayenne (957 at least) did, in fact, fold flat. I’m wondering whether you simply did not lift the seat bottoms forward.
Todd has many videos on the first Gen Cayenne. Yes, the seats fold flat in the awkward two step process of folding the bottoms forward and then dropping the back. The second Gen fold flat in one modern motion, which was the basis of the comments here. Thanks for watching.
I have same one e hybrid and i find it it take so long for heat to start working and there is nothing wrong with it i took it to porsche too they said it was nothing but it takes long for heat to work and when echarge is on it lags so much when taking off from complete stop i love the car I hate the ehybrid i see no point in having it i wish it was only gasoline
My 2011 X5 diesel averages the same 23 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving, and has a 6000 lb tow capacity.
The first gen cayenne seats DO fold flat. You can fold up the rear seats then lay down the backrests
Todd probably should have say “as easily” here. Remember he has a first gen and has covered it extensively. While they definitely fold, but as you’ve stated it’s a multi step process. Thanks for watching!
Pretty sure that was Midlife Crisis by Faith No More on the infotainment, great song, Cayenne doesn’t seem too bad either!
Actually it was an episode of our podcast with “mid-life” in the title. Thanks for watching!
YOU SHOULD’ve mentioned the cost of insurance for this monster I have benz gl 450 and insurance for Porsche is double from my benz
Good luck when the panoramic roof starts leaking or cracks. My neighbors panoramic roof was well over $2000 to fix or replace correctly.
I've driven a few of these as loaners from the dealer. Honestly I don't find them all that enticing. You get a lot of additional complication for very little benefit. The Cayenne Turbo out performs it easily and doesn't really get that worse MPG. The Cayenne diesel, which we have, drives basically the same and gets far better MPG's. My wife averages around 28mpg in ours. We bought ours with 18k miles on it and it has close to 110k on it now. It's cost us basically nothing out of pocket, just normal maintenance like brakes, tires, etc.
The diesel Cayenne is the pick 🤌🤌
I really wanted a cayenne but needed the 3rd row so we got the next best thing, Audi Q7. the cayenne shares the MLB Evo with the Q7 and the Bentayga.
My wife's Q7 is the most comfortable vehicle I've been in. I think that is mainly to do with the air ride.
All weather tyres for me are just the worst tyres you can have for both seasons. I was tempted, I bought one set and in the middle of the second winter I get them out. Very very fresh set kind of work in the winter 10-15k later they are just useless! You dont really feel confident in the summer as well, although if you not push hard in the corners are OK. AWT might be good for people that drive really low mileage and live in a very specific climate with no heavy winter but mild summer as well.
Do yourself a favour by proper tyres for the season as those few meters stopping distance and those few miles later aquaplaning could be the line between life and death!
There is a reason this was so cheap. It’s going to murder you when you get your first real repair.
When I saw that low profile tire I knew you’d be flatting. My last two cars were luxury low profile and I won’t drive them anymore. 35 profile tires in my state (New York) basically guarantee losing a tire or wheel each year.
I had two significant repairs with a Volvo PHEV under warranty. I know it’s not a Porsche but owning a used luxury PHEV I hope you have a heloc ready to go when it breaks.
Amazing, 2230 miles trough one country. I live in the Netherlands, I can drive from North to South in 3 hours😂💪
Yeah, the USA is all of Europe combined.
@@thespectralsorrows crazy, awesome!
Great SUV, once you drive a Cayenne, few others can match. If buying used, they are incredible values.
My 2007 E63 AMG with 6.2l v8 gets 21 mpg on average. How come cayenne with e-hybrid has such low mpg
There’s a variable for where you live and how you drive. We live and drive at 6,500 feet with little steady state commute driving. Lots of hills and hard driving - and every car we’ve owned gets significantly lower MPG than standard as a result. We have no doubt that other ehybrid owners do better than us. Thanks for watching.
Somehow I got unsubbed, so now I'm catching up. We bought a 2017 VW Touareg Wolfsburg 3.6 feb 2021 thankfully for 31k with 37k miles which as you know is the very very similar sibling including the maintenance cost when we lived in Colorado and shortly was moved due to work to mid Tn. But this car is unreasonably well built and it's so shocking when I get to drive it coming from my cheaper Vw commuter it's a wonderful car to own and pile the miles on. It's one of the nicest cars I think we've ever owned besides an older Infiniti M35x we had its very far up there and to drive also. My biggest grip with it after 3 years is the body roll on a back road, I certainly wish it had the air suspension and lastly the power its plenty and very decent around town but on the highway it could used some more. Her commute was 4-6 miles roundtrip when we 1st moved so mpg was 15 if we were lucky depending on the season, now it hovers in the 18-19 and highway we usually get 22.5-24. All we've done in its time with us is a leaky water pump right after we bought so it was under warranty still, brakes and tires at 65k, and basic maintenance with the mileage at 77k. I'm definitely eyeballing a current gen CPO Cayenne S/SE-Hybrid for replacement in the next few years or for the newer roadtrip car at least, maybe an Audi Q8 or SQ8. It's good to see nothing major has popped up yet with yours to show its reliability with its age, only major issue I see is a battery or expensive module to replace on it. Almost forgot we currently have a leak I think is coming from the Panoramic Sunroof or drain, so watch out around the passenger side floorboard.
How much did you pay for the Cayenne?
150 for the tires? I paid a 1000€ euro’s for new tires for the cayenne last month in Amsterdam 😢
How did you pay $150 for new winter tyres? Was that each?
The tires were provided by Vredestein, the installation was $150. Thanks for watching!
Nice, I must set up a youtube with freebies like that 😂 well done you, keep up the good work, love your channel.
A lot of work goes into getting any product at all. Glad to have you enjoying what we do!
First world problem: My Porsche has 2 sport buttons and it’s like confusing.
If only you bought in chalk color. My favorite porsche color of all time. !!!!
It's a nice car for what it is,but I wouldn't bother with the e hybrid for so little range. If it's at least 30, 40, then we're talking. (x5 45e) Other than that, 17, 18, like some bmw, audi, Volvo have, for me it's a deal breaker.
Tires are extremely expensive over 1200 in those size i recently replaced them and they are not even brand name😭😭😭but all parts are VW everything inside engine same as VW Touareg and Audi q5 . Parts are cheap if you know how to fix it yourself. i don’t like new versions of Cayane interior its not very nice am I the only one who hates those touch screen shinny attracts dirt
for 50k always best in class !
The last none touch screen cayenne.
Im surprised you are getting such poor economy, I'm averaging 31 mpg in my '15 SEH.
Wow your son is your twin.
Ummm, thinking your all season 3 snowflake tires means you have tires that are great in both summer and winter is crazy. They will be, by their nature, adequate in both. Having winter and summer tires is a waaaay better choice for that car, you should listen to your wife (and she in you if you have that poor advice because you’re getting paid to rep that tire company)
We discuss tires a lot on our Podcast, and in many videos. We have never claimed that an All-Weather tire will match a Summer tire or Winter tire at the extremes. No question that a dedicated tire is better. But, we've run all-weather on multiple cars from multiple brands (sponsored and not) and have found them to be superior to all-season tires, especially in snow. For people looking for a single tire solution, (A question we've been asked many times) we wanted personal experience with all-weathers and do recommend them. Hope that clarifies further. Thanks for watching!
All weather tires are neither very good summer tires nor very good winter tires and they have a reputation for wearing out sooner than most tires. In a place like Utah, the “summer tires” should be all seasons anyway and should be replaced with winter tires below 45F/7C
Locking plug can't be disabled? That's a bit annoying. This is absolutely the jack of all trades vehicle. Definitely has some limitations in this early phev form. I wish I was in the market for an SUV now and not 2 years ago when I bought my 2012 Range Rover. Could have afforded one of these instead. Oh well.
The whole point of it locking is because bad people can unplug your car or damage the port while you're at a public charger but away from the car. Maybe it's a bit moot being a plug-in, but imagine in an EV you get lunch while your car around the corner is supposed to be charging, but someone pulled it out and you stay there for an hour to come back to a car still empty.
@@scott8919 I get the point, but this should be something you can toggle or location based. My Bolt ev can't lock the handle in, but you can set it so the alarm will go off if you unplug. Great if you use your own charger in public. For a PHEV it's only a minor annoyance to be unplugged because they have a gas motor to get where ever in that case. More annoying to have to press unlock on a fob every time you leave your home than it is to have someone maybe unplug your car while grabbing a coffee.
I assume that's a 150 per tire.
The tires were provided by Vredestein, one of our partners. The installation was $150 total.
@@EverydayDriver thank you I missed that detail. How much would equivalent run me if I had to purchase them outright?
I have a 2012 cayenne with the ancient 3.6 vr6 engine and am able to average 21 mpg (I did install new coils and plugs). I hope you did not buy this for better MPG. Because the Diesel would put this to shame not to mention the far better reliability of the diesel. I see those hybrid Porsches at the dealer auction for pennies on the dollar. Hope it won't bite you in the rear. This is not a car to keep long term. Sell it while you can. I truly don't understand how people drive that model, the switch between gas and hybrid is horrendous.
I don't know which one you drove, but both of mine go between gas and electric so smoothly that it's hard to tell when it switches. Much smoother than a shift for example. Also, on my commute I went from 12mpg in Touareg to 23 MPG in the E-Hybrid without plugging in. Diesels are not allowed in ULEZ zones. There must be a reason.
@@Kulric if your touareg was getting 12 mpg must've been the v8 (or severely neglected?). I am strictly comparing both v6's. In the USA land of free, there is not a ULEZ zone. The point of the hybrid is for added performance which I understand. However when that shit breaks, you and the other 5 people who bought the environmentally correct Cayenne. Will realize the 10% better mpgs goes up in smoke real quick. Yes, I drove a Panamera with the hybrid system and I thought it was garbage. Just my opinion.