losing faith | my departure from theism [cc]
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2015
- A timeline of some key memories around my personal experience of religion, running from my earliest memories to my emergence into atheism.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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opening quote:
We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire.
- J. Robert Oppenheimer
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subtitles
Arabic: [anonymous]
Brazilian Portuguese: Aymar Pescador Jr
Bulgarian: Djeitko
French: Pierre Morot
Indonesian: Azzedine Al-Razi
Polish: Karol Chrząstek
Russian: Sergey Savelyev
Slovak: Peter Ščigulinský
Spanish: Spanish Subs, Mau Jo
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Note regarding the fallacious accusation that I distort Christianity in my videos.
There's great irony in the constant accusations I've had over the years that my critiques distort or 'strawman' Christianity. They don't. I convey what was explicitly conveyed to me by other Christians - messages I've queried with them, often in depth. I don't give my own interpretations - just the ones Christians give me. So when a Christian says I'm distorting Christianity, they're in fact accusing other Christians of distorting Christianity. By the way, the critiques in the video are specific to my childhood - I've of course countered other interpretations since then.
I won't accuse these Christians of shifting the goalposts - like strawmanning, an accusation of goalpost shifting is only valid if it's being done between the specific parties making the arguments. If one Christian puts forward one interpretation, a second Christian isn't goalpost shifting by presenting another different view - two different views are being presented by separate agents. By the same principle, if a Christian presents a view and I misrepresent that view back to that individual, I'm strawmanning. But if I accurately present that view, then other Christians come along and disagree with it, I haven't strawmanned them because I wasn't responding to them but to the first Christian. If I ever said 'All Christians believe X' and they didn't all believe X, then I could possibly be accused of strawmanning - but I don't use that language because I'm aware of the vast conflicting diversity of Christian beliefs. And that awareness originates from my experience as a Christian myself.
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Note regarding the false accusation that I’ve lied about my own thoughts/experiences.
1) Some theists have stated Christians don’t act in the hateful ways depicted. This seems to be based on 'no Christian I've ever met' reasoning. First, to suggest the tiny sample you've met represents every Christian is an obvious hasty generalisation fallacy. Second, even regarding the Christians you've met, you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Third, try pretending to be an atheist sometime - it might be an eye-opener. If you want to be taken seriously, don't deny plainly evident realities. I can freely admit that some atheists abuse theists. It’s plainly evident reality. I’m not obliged to deny or defend them just because I'm an atheist.
2) Some theists claim my questions about Noah and the ark around age six were lies - I was too young. Wrong.
My brother and I were lumbered with a bizarre myth when we were born. Doctors told our parents that being identical twins we’d always lag behind other children - twice the brains meant half the intelligence. In fact, we showed the opposite pattern. Our father recalled a hilarious moment when a doctor gave us some puzzles and said it would be years before we could solve them - then turned to see we already had.
We scored consistently ahead of our age in reading and vocabulary. A head teacher once chastised our parents for helping with our work - she didn’t believe we knew the words we used. She then had to eat her own. In our 11+ exams, we both got 99% and were accused of copying each other. We were cleared when it was discovered we got different answers wrong - oh, and took the exams in different rooms. I could go on. Have a think what it’s like for naturally bright children to be repeatedly suspected and accused instead of encouraged. No surprise I later learned to coast in school - performing to an average level to blend in.
The water cycle wasn’t part of the formal curriculum until around age 8. But my interest in clouds led me to find out about it sooner. I know - unbelievable isn’t it. I was given a poster by a teacher showing all the processes. Noah and the ark was part of a school performance when I was around six, in which I sang a song called ‘40 days and nights’. The play and the poster led to my question about where the water went.
It’s ironic that theists who’ve accused me of lying expect atheists to believe their claims of gods’ existence for which they provide no commensurate evidence - but refuse to believe in the existence of bright children. They're headed for a real shock when they discover distribution curves.
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the most religious parents make the most unreligious kids
Yea, and thats sad, they dont even go as its prefered by Jesus, like he preferes mercy over sacrafice, and then parents beat theire young, I was lucky, never pushed towards God by my parents, only my intent, its sad how parents do this, i can't express how hipocrit it is, but i see why they do that, they dont have the biblical education to answer the questions of the young, so they get nervous about theire children loosing faith, or they are just hipocrits, false belivers, there is a leque of possibilities.
Pfff, false believers. Not everyone has to be doctor of the church to believe. That's a thing in catholicism, there are answers, but not everybody are looking for them. And then, somebody encounters such person, get into argument and calls it a victory for whatever he advocates.
In my experience the extreme believers have atheist kids, the atheists have atheist kids and only the moderate believers have religious kids
Yep
The most abusive parents make the most unreligious kids.
Stopped taking my children to church after they informed me that they thought it was boring and confusing.
thank you for listening to your children.
@@lostinthecosmos6095 good. Interest them in science and if they still be faithful to religion they are geniunly religious or they just faking it
Thank you.
I was one of those lucky kids as well.
@geshem leocario Why would you want to live forever?
@geshem leocario many of the 3000 religions humans invented has eternal afterlife as a wishful thinking and magical reward, this is just one of them
I live in the Netherlands and I've been surrounded by atheists nearly my entire life. Meeting someone who actually is religious is like spotting a deer in the wild. Hearing these kinds of stories genuinely shocks me. It's extremely different to my life experience and it sounds like it needlessly causes a lot of damage.
There is good reasons to believe in God. Here are strong arguments.
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
@@jkyles1000 Actually, the void, the vacuum, is filled with virtual particles that pop out of nowhere and disappear almost instantly, because they always come in pairs and they always cancel each other out (they kinda destroy each other out of existence). And since the waves are caneling each other out we can't detect them. What we detect as a matter, as a thing, is actually a fluctuation, a wave that doesn't get canceled out and that we can detect. So actually, SOMETHING can emerge out of NOTHING
@@jkyles1000 this argument can easily be disproven by continuing to question:
If something cannot come from nothing, where did god come from?
And if god has always been, why couldn’t mass do the same?
Even if thats true there is no proof this existence is intelligent. Let alone powerfull or benevolent.
@@KalashDaCat Alternativly we simply lack the tools to measure them properly, and where they come from.
Whether it be god, alternate universes or some theory currently beyond our grasp.
@@KalashDaCat Actually, virtual particles are not popping in and out of existence, they’re just simply becoming observable (and then eventually unobservable).
I don’t think it’s possible for matter to come into existence out of nothing (“nothing” as in a lack of anything).
One of my most distinct childhood memories is asking the question; "If jealousy is a sin, then why is god a jealous god?", the topic of the sermon earlier. I was probably four or five at the time, and my mother was deeply religious. Her hurrying me to the car, a deep look of concern on her face, was by far the tamest response to a religious question I'd get for years after.
etymology vs unquestioned scripture
Yes, God is jealous exclusively. Jealous is explained in the Hebrew lexicon like this: "Jealous", used of God as not bearing any rival; the severe avenger of departure from Himself." The difference being that human jealousy is
a act of the sinful nature (selfish independent nature) that was the result of the fall of mankind in the garden of Eden. Once you understand everyone's sinful state at birth, you can soon discover their is a cure, and His name is Jesus Christ. The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
@@christophergibson7155 What does that mean? God is jealous about not having a rival? What about Satan? He's practically depicted as his rival and can be implied to be just as powerful as God since he isn't dead yet and that the concept of "Evil" still exists.
Also, the word "Jealous" is the wrong word here, the definition you put out refer to the words "Unrivaled" and "Narcissistic", with a lot more narcissism though.
And I'm curious about something, why are there two different definitions of a word for these two subjects? Is it because God is a god therefore not subject to human words? Because he certainly acts like one and more precisely a damn spoiled child.
@@rokilaiyangtzer1134 What does that mean?
It doesn't mean God does not have a rival.
It means God will not accept any rival.
Satan is God's defeated enemy. Jesus defeated sin and death at the cross and during his resurrection. And it is the most powerful act of love that anyone has ever given. Who are we to stand in judgment over Almighty God in the light of our own sinful nature? Until you understand your rebel nature because of sin, you will continue to shake your fist at God and mock His character. Jesus said, "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." Ask yourself if you have broken God's moral law? Have you lied, stolen, sexually lusted, blasphemed God, dishonored parents, etc...? If you will repent, (have a change of mind toward sin and self), and trust in Jesus alone, (as a little child) for your salvation; then you will spend eternity in the kingdom of heaven, a
totally amazing and beautiful place.
@@christophergibson7155 amen brother I’m in college 18 and I thank you for this comment. In this age and day when we are taught things in school like evolution. We just take it as is. They never discuss the MAJOR problems with it. like mathematical probability of evolution or the development of one singular CELLED organism with dna and proteins and ribosomes occurring. It’s nearly impossible. You just look at the mathematical data then you will see for yourself. Another thing is that they organize themselves in a way that requires there to be information in how they organize themselves, if one isn’t in the right place at the right time there will be no functioning cell at all. Another thing is that scientists don’t know where that information comes from.
"God has shown me your future. I see you doing great things for Christianity"
he was technically correct
True, and there is steel time to do even better
How is he correct? He doesn't do anything for Christianity, namely because he's not Christian anymore
@@joshfish2 the best thing to do for Christianity is to help Christian becoming atheist xD
Andrew Shaw
1: Becoming an atheist may help Christians self reflect and make Christianity as a whole better and more effective.
2: Perhaps this means he’ll eventually become Christian again and go on to do great works.
3: “Do great things,” is vague enough to mean just about anything.
yes, waking them up to the truth and how christians are so blinded to the real truth. idolizing a wooden image and a white jesus who is not the messiah or white and was jewish so christian should act more jewish and eat kosher and honor shabbat if they want to be like jesus
"The magic trick, once explained, can no longer deceive." Most memorable line.
And yet, people still find amusement and blissful joy in the unknown and unexplained while those who debunks the trick find joy in being party-poopers.
@@realThomastheCat Nah...some people just don't like to be fooled and appreciate those who take the time and trouble to expose cheats.
Awesome line, I may steal it!
"Atheism happened to me when I wasn't looking, theism happened to me when I wasn't thinking." 🔥🔥🔥
No
I also got a slap to the face when I was a kid..we were getting ready for church one Sunday night, and i got frustrated bc they wouldn't hand over the Bible i treasured as a gift from the pastor for graduating kindergarten. I was so ticked off that i yelled out "Give me the stupid Bible!"...i felt my head snap sideways..my mom yelled at me and said "Don't you *ever* call a Bible stupid again!"
Hitting a child to 'protect' a book. So many of us grew up around that kind of utter perversity.
@@TheraminTrees yet, unironically, the book teaches love. Hmm. Oxymoron I smell
@@OfficerHotpants Its funny how Christians believe god is just and right when almost all of his actions demonstrate his jealousy, sadism, narcissism, huge ego, and depravity. Its literally insane to me. The mere fact he demands worship shows how awful of a character he is. Nobody who demands to be worshipped is doing that from a place of "love."
what kind of sick individual would hit a child and yell at them to 'protect' a stupid book?
@@TheraminTrees what did you mean by "atheism happened to me when i was not looking"?
“Don’t look into evolution, it could lead you down a dark path” (translation) “don’t make decisions about reality based on the available evidence, it could lead you down a dark path”
*it could lead you down a path that I've decided I don't want you to travel
@@quarepercutisproximum9582 man I’ve realized how stupid some people are to tell people that they can’t do something based off of “it’s a scary path” even though there’s nothing there. it’s just knowledge
Now apply that to dogmas you accept. Like racism bad.
@@st.michaelsknight6299 What are you even implying
@@vkyal5810 That all believe systems have dogmas that you cannot question. The only real question is why those dogmas, and why are they dogmas
Growing up in a religious household, I was often warned that if I became too smart I would become evil. I left the faith two years ago and looking back it's terrifying
Leaving the faith actually gives a large sense of freedom.
EnjoyThis I don’t think so. My mental health has gotten much better since I left religion.
@EnjoyThis ever since I dropped the dogma from my development, I’ve felt freer and healthier than ever before. I am at a greater peace and filled with more ambition and passion.
They're all cults - any belief system that discourages independent thought & threatens with otherworldly punishments is a cult, full stop. Extra points for revered figures like prophets & messiahs. It's all too obvious of a scheme, but the only reason they survive is because of indoctrination, human fear and gullibility.
@@seanells2333 if I may ask how old you were when you dropped the dogma?
"I was alone, in a house full of contradictions."
Ah... I felt that one.
Oh, poor baby. You weren't alone. Those contradictions were about to evolve into a PlayStation. You gotta have faith brother.
@@markrowton8004 ?
@@felobatirmoheb4884 thou shall not question God’s words
@@orangesoul4289 fair enough
@@markrowton8004 what lol
I think that the pastor, misguided as he may be, was ironically correct in his prophecy that you would do great things for Christianity, more specifically Christians. By exposing the lies of the religion in these videos, you have saved more lives from it than you may ever know, including mine. Thank you.
Irony at its finest.
Those who knows the bible best are those who know the lies it says.
that is crazy to think about.
@Ahmed Shah What do you mean?
Omg I’m trying to stay calm but I agree so hard. It’s very encouraging to not feel so alone with both him and his brothers vids and the communities they both facilitate. Really helps keep me going when it feels I’m being a pointless pesk to try and stay committed to rationality and curiosity over the false peace and harmony of agreement enforced by the assumption of divine right
@@sleepninja2350 Does his brother have a channel too? If so, what's the name of the channel?
When *I* started questioning my faith, I went to a Christian school. Just asking my friends at lunch simple things like "why is there evil in the world when god could destroy it" would be met with looks of disgust or even fear. If you werent a Christian at that school and were open about it, you were treated horribly by peers and teachers alike.
Very loving and tolerate of them
My primary was rather similar I was the only atheist, I was treated differently I never was Christian but everyone around me was, their religion was something they were unaware of mostly, due to their parents indoctrination
The simple answer to this is Free Will. There are multiple ideas within Christianity, most popular being the debate between Calvinism (Predestination) and Arminianism (Free Will). These are very barebones description of the 2, but Predestination stems from the idea that everyone is assigned saved and not saved (i.e. The Elect) and that God has predetermined your path in life. Obviously this raises more questions than answers like "Would God predestine Sin?", Answer: Of course not. Meanwhile Free Will surmises that men are free agents that are welcome to chose to follow or not follow God. Evil exists because of the free will of man. Since we chose to eat from the tree of good and evil, we are condemned. Free Will exists because God wants believers who truly believe in him and are not merely subservient to him because he said so.
Theology 101, but of course not every Christian is going to have all the answers.
We didn't choose to eat fruit from the tree of *knowledge* of good and evil, a mythical man made from dirt - in a story - did, without knowledge of good and evil, through the "corruption" (honesty) of a serpent. Y'know, according to the Bible at least. Absolute nonsense, of course. But let's say that it's just everyone is capable of sin. Why are we capable of sin? More importantly, assuming you don't hold a creationist view with a 6000 year old world, and don't disagree with the mountains of evidence in favour of evolution... How do you explain such an evil selection process? All the suffering of every non-human species, and all the death and pain experienced by organisms before humans existed? Like, the majority of the Earth's history?
Predeterminism (or predestination) is a necessary conclusion from the typical claims associated with theism - All powerful, all knowing creator of the universe. It's not an exclusively theistic problem though.
When I was part of campus crusade, I had a really hard time connecting with other people, because most hadn't read the Bible. I couldn't figure out why they were so jolly for the longest time.
@@littlegamer9573 is it truly free will if at the end its "believe in me or suffer"?
PARENTS, PLEASE ECOURAGE YOU KIDS TO ASK QUESTIONS. EVNEN IF THEY BECOME ATHEISTS OR AGNOSTICS, YOU SHOULD STILL LOVE AND CARE FOR THEM.
Why?
@@krioni86sa Because that creates wisdom, which will save everyone a whole lot of trouble in the long run.
As a Christian, I wholeheartedly agree with this. Christian parents shouldn't shush questions. I Peter 3:15. We need to be ready to give an answer why we believe what we believe.
@@WeavyBoo lets start from u then..
@sabage cabage123 hahahaha
It's like handing a child a logic puzzle, then yelling at them when they try to solve it.
Dani L he said that logic and reason points to god. I’ve seen him in other comment sections starting arguments. He has no idea what hes talking about.
God os good. Amen.
I would like to see this as an actual social experiment
@@ultrainstinctgoku2509 Yep. Good is good. Amen.
There is plenty of evil in “the Good Book,” but here are some highlights:
1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites - men, women, children, infants, and their cattle - for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.
12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.
14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.
15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.
Now, Christians have spent thousands of years coming up with excuses for a loving god that would allow or create such evil.
Top 20 Evil Bible Stories
commonsenseatheism.com/?p=21
@@ultrainstinctgoku2509
10. God destroys a good family 'for no reason.'
God made a bet with Satan that Job, a good and blameless man, would remain faithful even if he killed his children and ruined his life. Here we see God indicting himself for the crime, openly confessing that he destroyed a family "for no reason."
"The Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the Earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil. He still persists in his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason.' " (Job 2:3 New Revised Standard Bible)
9. God destroys the fetuses of those who do not worship him.
This is not the only feticidal passage in the bible, but it is the worst:
"You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:4, 9, 16 New International Version)
8. God approves the massacre of a peaceful people so one of his tribes could have a place to live.
Most believers think God destroyed the Canaanites because they were depraved and immoral, although the bible does not make that claim. They were killed - and labeled "evil" and "wicked" - simply because they did not worship him. Here is a group of people who did nothing wrong. They were "at peace and secure," but they had to be eliminated.
"And in those days the tribe of the Danites was seeking a place of their own where they might settle, because they had not yet come into an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. . . . Then they said to [the priest], 'Please inquire of God to learn whether our journey will be successful.' The priest answered them, 'Go in peace. Your journey has the Lord's approval.' . . . Then they took what Micah had made, and his priest, and went on to Laish, against a people at peace and secure. They attacked them with the sword and burned down their city. . . . The Danites rebuilt the city and settled there." (Judges 18:1-28 NIV)
The Canaanites were not the evildoers. The Israelites were the invaders!
7. Babies are slaughtered and wives raped.
The murderous Old Testament deity deemed human life to be worthless, placing his own megalomaniacal glory above human values. Here is one of the worst examples:
"See, the day of the Lord is coming - a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated." (Isaiah 13:9-16 NIV)
6. A mixed-race couple is murdered by a godly priest to keep God's people pure.
The righteous priest Phinehas murdered a loving couple for the crime of miscegenation. Then he was praised by God and rewarded for the hate crime with a perpetual priesthood for keeping the nation racially pure.
"Just then one of the Israelites came and brought a Midianite woman into his family, in the sight of Moses and in the sight of the whole congregation of the Israelites. When Phinehas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he got up and left the congregation. Taking a spear in his hand, he went after the Israelite man into the tent, and pierced the two of them, the Israelite and the woman, through the belly. So the plague was stopped among the people of Israel. The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 'Phinehas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron the priest, has turned back my wrath from the Israelites by manifesting such zeal among them on my behalf that in my jealousy I did not consume the Israelites. Therefore say, "I hereby grant him my covenant of peace. It shall be for him and for his descendants after him a covenant of perpetual priesthood, because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the Israelites.' '" (Numbers 25:6-13 NRSV)
5. A daughter is burned as an acceptable sacrifice to God.
General Jephthah made a vow with God in order to defeat the enemy. When Jephthah won the war, God received his hundred pounds of flesh.
"And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: 'If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.' . . . When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! . . . After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed." (Judges 11:30-39 NIV)
After burning his daughter, Jephthah was rewarded with a prestigious judgeship and was later buried with honor.
4. The cannibalistic God makes people eat human flesh.
There are nine passages in the Old Testament where God makes cannibalistic threats. Here is the worst one:
"And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." (Leviticus 26:27-29 King James Version)
3. God threatens rape, then takes credit for it.
This passage was new to me, and it blew me away. I guess I had only read it before in the King James Version, where the sexual molestation is not obvious. Here it is in the NRSV, where the Israelites were asking why they were being attacked by the Babylonians:
"Hear and give ear; do not be haughty, for the Lord has spoken. . . . And if you say in your heart, 'Why have these things come upon me?' it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen." (Jeremiah 13:15-26 NRSV)
"Skirts lifted up" is sexual assault. "Violate" is rape. The King James Version has the quaint "heels made bare," which obscures the sexual assault.
Notice that the "iniquity" for which they were being raped was not immorality or depravity; it was simply because "you have forgotten me."
2. God threatens sexual molestation.
The Lord will harass attractive uppity women by exposing their private parts.
"Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts." (Isaiah 3:16-17 KJV)
The New International Version covers up this embarrassing passage with "make their scalps bald" in place of "discover their secret parts [Hebrew: poth = vagina]." Other translations are more honest: The Orthodox Jewish Bible has "lay bare their nakedness," Amplified Bible "stripped naked," Complete Jewish Bible "expose their private parts," Common English Version "uncover their private parts," and Living Bible "expose their nakedness for all to see." Even if "daughters of Zion" is a metaphor for Israel, it is a metaphor of sexual assault.
1. God wants you to be happy to dash babies against the rocks.
I have always thought this was the worst verse in the bible, and my opinion remains unchanged.
"O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!"(Psalm 137:8-9 NRSV)
God was not merely saying that regrettable collateral damage might occur during wartime. He said believers should be happy - some translations say "blessed" - to kill innocent babies of those who are keeping you from worshipping your own god.
• • •
Anyone who claims to admire and worship the biblical God has either abandoned all sense of moral judgment or has never actually read the Old Testament.
The 10 Worst Old Testament Verses by Dan Barker - Freedom From Religion Foundation
ffrf.org/publications/freethought-today/item/26141-the-10-worst-old-testament-verses
Theramin Trees personal story about asking disturbing questions reminds me of when I was perhaps five years old and first heard that a neighbor had to have his dog "put to sleep" after it had been hit by a car. The poor dog had survived being hit by the car, but I was told the animal had been in great pain and was going to die slowly, so it was the merciful thing to do, because, "You wouldn't want Rex to suffer, would you?" Of course I said I wouldn't want Rex to suffer, but I was very confused because I didn't understand what I was being told. After all, I went to sleep every night and even took naps in the day time. No one had explained euthanasia to me.
The next day happened to be Easter Sunday. My family was standing in line at a restaurant waiting to go in for Easter brunch. A number of aunts, uncles and a family friend who had grown up in the same neighborhood as my mother were all together talking about people they had grown up with. One women's name drew a very sad response from the family friend. She had learned that this women had cancer and had visited her in the hospital. She said how terrible it was to see someone dying slowly and suffering, because morphine was no longer effective in stopping this women's pain, which was "very great." At this time I didn't know what cancer was; other than it was something bad, and I also had no clue what morphine was, but dying slowly and suffering with great pain, I had heard about those things, and just the day before. So of course I felt the need to speak up and ask out loud, "So why don't they put her to sleep?" I had never, and have never since then, shocked so many people into silence with one simple eight word question. Even adults who weren't part of my extended family but close enough to hear what I said stopped talking and started starring at me; and all of those adults seemed to carry an expression of both horror and fear as they looked at me. Looking around at all of those faces that seemed to be accusing me of something bad without actually saying anything, I felt I had to defend myself. So I topped myself by adding this question, "Well, you wouldn't want her to suffer, would you?" That not only drew gasps, but a couple of people made the sign of the cross, and did so as if they were aiming it at me, to protect themselves from something evil. Yea, I really got a talking to after that. I don't remember what I was told, but I do remember thinking that I hadn't really said anything that was wrong, even though I was told I that had.
That wasn't when I became an atheist, but it was the start of me realizing that some things I was being told were true, couldn't really be true.
Beautiful but unfortunately sad story that in this case proves how people find themselves in struggle when someone or something is not in line with their guidelines. I mean that all of those people you spoke about just couldnt find anything better to do then to look at you as to evil. They ignored the fact that you were just a kid because you trespassed so heavily the formalities. With this I want to poin out how people can become so blinde when behaving like a certain society request to ignore the logic. In your case all of them should have been able to see and understand that you did not know what were you speaking about instead of feeling offended or even afraid.
What you said made absolute sense. The least the adults could have done was not treat you like some sort of monster.
I personally have always believed in euthanasia for suffering consenting humans. Just because these adults felt uncomfortable with the question did not justify their horrible response to you.
@@sugarmouse3555 I agree. It's crazy that people feel justified to force humans to be alive only so they can suffer...become conscious of their suffering, suffer more, then die anyways. The least we can do is allow people to die when they want and don't have to be conscious of the pain. I didn't get to choose to be alive, I didn't get to choose to be mortal, I at least deserve to choose when and how. _(as long as I don't force others to be alive and take that responsibility)_
The Church is very smart to include that "suicide is a sin"...considering they insist that death will grant you an eternity of paradise. Suffering on Earth is a complete waste of time. I'm happy to die just because of the lack of conscious pain. Can't imagine how desperate I'd be if I thought that actually I'd continue to live *and* live in paradise. Very convenient that the one thing I can do to get there, suicide, will actually void my ticket. 👍
I had a similar issue when my great-grandmother died. My mom would only tell me that we couldn't visit her because she was asleep and I was just like "It's the middle of the afternoon, shouldn't we go wake her up?" My mom was chronically incapable of addressing the concept of mortality so she'd just start crying. Wasn't long after that that someone (probably my mom) locked me in a closet at a hotel (probably so she could go have sex with someone) and I watched a woman get disemboweled. So that...not great.
@@fingerboxes WHOA, that is....damn what a childhood
I'm an ex-mormon. This video isn't what got me out of Mormonism, but it is the video that shaped my post-mormon worldview. It's been 7 years since I first watched it. I want to let you know how important it was for me, and thank you for making it.
"Hell is a tiny idea that casts a large shadow" -well put
Leads to some good music though.
Hell is the best fanfiction
red goat dudes are cool
h*ll is total separation from God.
@@JPX7NGD why do you believe in God?
@@ghoulbuster1 no one can be this st*pid, demons hate you almost as much as you want to destroy yourself.
"I saw hell for what it was; a tiny idea casting a large shadow"
Damn
There's always a protagonist...antagonist...character development, narrative plot....and climax to every story book.
That might be the best way to put it I ever heard.
h*ll is total separation from God.
@@JPX7NGD Nope, hell is just man made place such as is all gods and all different heavens.
@@tgstudio85 Heaven is our Home. God Is The Uncreated, Uncontingent Prime Mover Whom Is SO Far Above His Creation that you may only witness Him as He acts upon creation. the pagan "gods" you unquestioningly worship are just demons: created, contingent beings as you are.
h*ll is complete, total, Eternal separation from God and therefore true d*ath and Eternal suffering beyond what you could imagine.
As someone who is going through an early stage of your journey, I’m terrified that I’ve stumbled upon this video. I’ve been begging god for a sign to show his existence, and I was met with this; a complete explanation for basically everything that I’ve been feeling. A confirmation that all of my doubts aren’t just me trying to be rebellious and it feels so freeing, yet I feel more alone than I’ve ever felt somehow. It’s as if all that I was scared of being true and hoped wasn’t has been completely proved right. So, thank you. As painful as this was to watch I needed it, and you’ve helped at least one more person get out of this terrifying lie.
You should be proud of yourself. You’ve been taught to pursue truth and you’ve found it. I went through the same thing you did praying to god and receiving no answers from him. The change can be a lot to handle so I highly recommend pursuing forms of self improvement such as therapy or simply picking up an instrument. Best of luck in discovering more about life and more about your true self untethered from religion.
It hurts yeah, but damned did i really needed this video.
It thankfully hurt less for me bcs i already am an atheist but this video genuinely hit home, reminding me of what i went through, it was less harsh then what op went through which I am very thankful for
Mankind always wants to own the truth. If a lord who is so wise and loving is up there, he surely would not sound like an ancient man that was given an infinity stone.
I'd argue he wouldn't even get his feet onto his creation and that our mere lives already accomplish his goals. He is supoosed to be perfect and all-capable, even of solving the paradox of free will if he so wanted.
Humans do lie. Not everything is what it seems and to know who made us all would be an achievement, but to claim you do and then tell what he says is an act of disrespect, diffamation, mislead and dispair.
It's hard to find your footing again when you realize that a lot of the foundational beliefs you've held for a very long time just aren't there anymore. I found the process terrifying. I grew up being trafficked and even after my escape I believed that I deserved to be property and drifted from relationship to relationship. I didn't think I could make decisions for myself but unfortunately the kind of person willing to take that kind of role on for you is either equally broken or someone who wants to take advantage of you. When my now-ex husband walked out on me, I was suddenly put in a position where my body was my own. It was terrifying. I started having gender dysmorphia. Unlike dysphoria where you believe your body doesn't match what you believe it should be, dysmorphia means I stopped being able to see female features on my body when I looked in the mirror. I think what happened was that some part of me said "the person who owns me must be a man, the person in the mirror owns me, therefore the person in the mirror is a man." Suddenly finding myself an adult with no sense of identity, no sense of what I believed, no sense of what I wanted, no sense of what I valued--it was horrific. I can't describe the pure terror and emptiness. But somehow I made it through.
It does get better. I promise. I won't pretend it's easy or fun because it sure as hell isn't but it does get better.
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
I was a Christian first 40± years, a preacher and a missionary. Reared my children as Christians. Am now secular humanist. This is one of the most coherent, thorough, and concise presentations I've seen. Thank you.
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
@@jkyles1000 why are you spamming this on every comment??
@@jkyles1000 us not knowing how the universe came into existence doesn't make it reasonable to assume that a concious, intelligent being somehow created it. it's a speculation that is just as likely as any other.
it's better to just accept the fact that we do not and cannot know where it all came from or why, and just try to understand what we can.
@@jkyles1000 I would argue your points operate on several assumptions, including assuming that some other assumptions are definitely true, which is not how things work. We learn and redefine our understanding of the world all the time. The beginning of the universe in particular is very prone to us being wrong about it, in that we've never had the chance to observe anything truly like it and similarly make assumptions on assumptions to speculate on what it was like.
I just think its important to understand that our current interpretations are our best guesses based on our best possible evidence we could come up with.
I think gravity is a great example, it doesn't just pull down, we figured out its attraction of matter. And then we learned its more accurately described as bending of space-time fabric. And I'm sure there's more to learn here as well.
I don't think filling gaps of understanding with the word God has done any good for the pursuit of knowledge in hundreds of years.
@@jkyles1000 Do you truly think with your one copypasta of religious goop, you'll change back someone who devoted half their life to following God? The ammount of pain and suffering it takes to leave religion behind? I think most of us wanted it all to be true, but it was when we saw it objectively that it started to crumble from the inside out. Speaking for myself though, not everyone; just sad how many dont stop to think that leaving isn't a fun or easy choice, but usually a necessity for a better life.
"Atheism happened to me when I wasn't looking - theism happened to me when I wasn't thinking."
@LeviAckerman yeah u cant think
@@iflax7460 Atheism is just a lack of belief in god. It cannot be right or wrong.
@@iflax7460 Lack of belief doesn't mean that we say that god doesn't exist. We can't say that because god is an unfalsifiable claim. There is only 2 options, god either exists or not. There is no evidence for the existence so I say I don't believe that he exists. Doesn't mean that I believe he doesn't exist. Simple enough?
And there is no such thing as scientism. There is science, that pesky thing that lets us communicate right now...
@@iflax7460 No.
Theist - I believe
Atheist - I do not believe
Agnostic - I don't know
I stand on I do not believe because oh I've allready said why...
@@iflax7460 You are funny man. Look at those starlink satellites and tell me again that science will never win.
For the first time in my 4 decades of life, I’ve found someone who had the same childhood as me. Thank you for your videos.
If you look through the comments some time - aside from the predictable silly vitriol - you'll see a lot of people affirm that they've shared a similar childhood. There are lots of us out there who felt we must've been the only one.
@@TheraminTrees Hey! I loved your video, it explained the process of atheism so smoothly. I'll also throw in my own childhood experience, which isn't really interesting but just something to share, because.. why not?
I don't have a similar childhood as you, but I also was very curious about everything. I always loved to question things, I liked to pose many philosophical questions. It came to a point my mother would sometimes get mad at me it, probably because she thought I was demanding answers, when all I did was just let my mind speak outloud. What's different is that, I actually never got to be a believer in the first place. I'd never accept anything given to me without first questioning it. When religion was given to me, I questioned it like everything else, no exception. Why should it be?
I got to be an atheist pretty quickly, in fact, it didn't even take longer than a day. I pondered the whole thing in a few concentrated hours and excluded it as a possible reality. I was maybe 12 at the time.. from that point on, no one else could convince me otherwise. I never got to waste years of my life believing into something that was most possibly non-existent, and neither was I introduced to the great fear of hell.
I didn't think it was real, so it didn't bother me. And, of course, I also didn't feel the need to 'come out' since I didn't really think religion was real, thus, not something to fuss about. Eventually, though, I had a few encounters with my family members that forced me to 'come out'. I did, and I didn't get such a positive response.. I was referred to as a "demonist" (as if that's a real word) for merely saying "I don't think god is real, I kind of doubt it if anything.."
Like yourself and many other atheists, I was talked over, even looked down upon. It was pretty confusing, knowing how I was the child, yet, the adults seemed to be childish.. and, well, as of now, I'm just accepting that the debate of religion is impossible to talk about.. if you're talking to a religious person, that is. If you don't want to listen to what's being presented, a reasonable argument won't be enough to convince you.. us humans can be complex like that. Aside from our intelligence, we'd need to consider our emotional intelligence. Being logical is nice, but sometimes not sufficient. In the end, being emotionally aware is what's needed to avoid traps like these..
TheraminTrees Yes, Theramin, this is my story. I’ve been explicitly told by my family that I’ve been a problem child ever since I asked why people tried to predict the second coming, when we’d just learned in a Sunday School that Jesus said he’d come like a thief in the night and no-one would know the day or the hour. Yeah, and also asking why we were all supposed to act sad at funerals. It seemed to me that we should be so happy for our beloved grandparents that they now got to be with god. Instead of the answers I expected from the adults I loved and trusted, my questions just inspired anger. I didn’t understand. I should have trusted my childish questions. Devoted too much of my life trying to make sense of my religion and my family. Thank you for all your videos. I can’t tell you how important they are.
@@TheraminTrees I agree, I was coming out by my self by not practicing but you have given me the tools to clean up all remnants of theism I had, so many things in my life where still dictated by the invisible hand of "God", no more. Thanks for your work and time :)
Very same experience for me.
The conversation suddenly came up one evening when I suddenly announced that I no longer believed in religion. Suddenly, I was deemed evil for asking questions and exploring things outside of religion. I know my parents (especially my mother) are too closed for any bit of reason to get through their heads, but deep down, I have a glimmer of hope that I might get even just a decent amount of respect for what I believe. It's so draining and exhausting having to put up with a barrage of attacks that demonize and dehumanize myself. Somehow I needed this affirmation that I am free to ask questions and explore my own truth, and that I am not alone in this struggle. Thank you.
You're definitely not alone! Wishing you the best! 💖
You ARE doing great things for Christianity. You're stopping abusers from using it as a weapon
Wouldn't it be great if religion was a choice instead of an institution?
He litterally used the pelagian heresy as an argument 16:45.
@@servantmapper8893 What is that?
Basically the belief that one can deserve to Go to Heaven, as the Bible says no one can deserve it, we can only get to it because Jesus paid our bail. - The dividing line is everyone goes to Hell except for those who believes in Jesus and are thus saved. So the argument used at 16:45 in the video is based in a heresy, technically. @@ElanaVital83
@@servantmapper8893 LOL That's silly. In order for me to actually care about what rules are out there, prove that Hell even exists in the first place.
I don't think this guy is worried about going to a fictional afterlife.
When I was a child, while in church, I innocently said that I didn't understand what the preacher was saying. For that, I was taken out onto the church lawn and beaten with a belt from a man who wasn't my father, by a woman who wasn't even my mother. The louder I screamed with every lash the louder the congregation sang their hymns to their loving and forgiving god. These bible thumping evangelical Christians made an atheist out of me!
Reading this appalling experience you've shared reinforces what I've often thought: that the unacknowledged goal of believers in administering these kinds of punishments is not to get children to believe, but to get them to act 'as if' they believe.
@@TheraminTrees It's worse. It's not even about the children, it's about themselves. They beat the children so they don't have to think about their belief, so they don't have to question it. I'm sure you know why.
@Wee Mac Is this belief rooted in defending or identifying with evangelical Christianity?
@Wee Mac What makes it appear this story is a lie for the purpose of seeking attention? It doesn't look like he is following up with any other responses to double down on any "woe is me" sympathies. He never said anything such as "like this comment to show solidarity". How is one able to tell the difference between a true story and attention seeking?
I guess in the grand scheme of things, a single comment thread isn't exactly all that important.
It's always good to experience christian love.
I love how he continuously refers to him as Cheezus.
No there has been evidence found that Jesus Christ existed at some point, although he looks a lot different that white Beatles Jesus
Also the scriptures that were written about him and the stuff he said were written hundreds of years after he was dead.
There was a man named Jesus Christ although everything his ever said or done is up for debate
I Dont Know where the devil resides but I have heard his in the Vatican lol
I've heard of the Rothschild and some of the thing, even if they're not satanists they'res something undeniably creepy about them.
@S Robin very interesting
I wasn't sure if that "cheezuz" was on purpose or a mistake in the closed captioning!
When i was 11 years old, I was asked to go to church for easter or christmas, and i said i didnt want to go, my grandfather asked me why, and i replied 'i don't believe in god'
He said 'ok'
I'm glad i was never in a situation where i felt like i was forced to believe anything.
@jazzyj2182 dude i was already past all this dumb shit at 11 years old, do you think im more susceptible now at 37? Do you think everyone's as dumb as you?
@@Scratchy314You’re so based for that hahah
@jazzyj2182predestined but still needing to repent. Very cool
I had a similar experience with my own (Christian) grandfather, at about... 18 or 19, I think? I said I wasnt sure what I believed, if anything, and his response was "that's part of what you're going to university to find out". He never showed any less love, kindnss or respect for me after that conversation.
For some reason I feel very proud of people rebeling against religious indoctrination. I will never know if I would have the strength to go through that since I was never indoctrinated into religion.
At this point we can classify the subgroup of humanitarian faith of atheism as itself a religion. A religion doesn’t need a god.
@@1mol831 You are tragic.
@@1mol831 is not playing football a sport then?
@@henrystibitz8111 it is obviously a sport
@@1mol831Then there are infinite sports like "Not playing basketball" and "Not playing hockey". You and I are both athletes.
so ironic when a theist tell you're misled and brainwashed and at the same time would hit a children for asking questions
Hasty genaralisation
@@ziyaaddhorat It is an arguable generalisation, at least. When you consider all Christianity consists on 'bringing the children to Christ' and 'be like a baby'. It depends on whether some parents are more Christian than others.
Oh I did eat my fair share of slap to the face.
@@ziyaaddhorat perhaps, but it is true that some Christians do that.
@@iexist1300 some ≠ Most or disproportionate amount
I’ve been an atheist for a few months now, but since I still live with my parents, I am just going to play along with the whole belief and church thing until I move out.
Good luck to you, hang in there and always be true to yourself.
To this day, the best thing that happened in my life was moving out of my parent's house.
Just play along, things will get better, you'll be able to be yourself one day, good luck.
be persistent
@@randomrandom450 it's going to be harder for me since I am masquerading as a muslim
I was doing the same thing until my dad found out that I filled out “atheist” on a section of one of my college applications. That was not a pleasant conversation to say the least. Good thing I’m moving out next year. Best of luck to you!
It was that same realization that was the last straw for me too, that good people could go to hell simply for being born somewhere that they would never even hear about Jesus or Christianity, yet a murderer can go to heaven by “repenting” to god.
Technically speaking Hitler could have gotten saved between the last time he was seen and his death. Christians would probably say he'd never do that but there's no rule saying he couldn't have.
@@joshuaa7266 exactly, yet children who die of hunger in small African villages that have never been exposed to Christianity or the concept of “being saved by Jesus” supposedly go to hell for not believing in something they’ve never even heard of? Makes a lot of sense, right? Totally not morally inconsistent whatsoever! /s
@@DosYeobos One of the things that promepted me to apostasy was just the question of the afterlife, especially the things of the Heaven and the Hell, where christians insist on existence of those places because… well, you know. So, I read the Bible about the Heaven and the Hell, and guess what I found? Not so much, especially in the old testament, because when you talk about the "Hell", the Jewish point of view talk about a place colled Gehenna or Valley of Hinnom, a place where the canaanite tribes sacrificed their babies in that Valley to the god Moloch. Basically the Gehenna is not a place where that is in the Afterlife or in "another dimension", but a place that is part of our world. The second thing of the "Hell" is called Sheol, the underground, where you bury the dead as you do in the cemetry. I mean, some Jews say that there is an Heaven or the Hell, but about the Hell (the Sheol) is like the Hades of the greek mythilogy, and there isn't an eternal punishment, but is like a waiting room, before the resurection of the dead. And there are some Jews that don't believe in the Afterlife, because the Ecclesiastes ( or the Qohelet) chapter 9 verse 5 say: "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not any things". The jews point of view of the Afterlife accepts interpretations, but isn't so important, because they focus more on this life, and not after. About the Christian point of view is so messed up. I mean, maybe not all christians are agree about the concept of the Heaven and the Hell, but if these people read carefully what Is written in the Bible, especially in the old testament, they will found that there isn't so much about the afterlife, neither in the new testament. For exemple, the Gospel of Luke chapter 17 verse 21, Jesus talk about the "Kingdom of God" the Christian point of view of the Heaven. I think that is an emotional state of your feeling, and not a place where your "soul" going in another "dimension" because like Jesus say "The Kingdom of God isn't here or in another place, but inside all of you". Basically, the Kingdom of God is a sentimental thing, also the Hell is a sentimental thing, not a "pleace". Concept like Heaven, Hell, and eternal life are concepts of the late christianity, not of the early christians, and like I said about the jews point of view of these three things aren't so importants, so why bother with these things? Better focus on this life. Right?
@@robertomondello2447 I absolutely agree with that. I may not be religious so much anymore, but if I were, it would be more from this perspective of focusing on the one life that we have.
It really is a ridiculous concept to think about. And as he said in the video, immoral too
I awakened when at "religion" (my country is heavily christian so we have classes at school about religion, in reality its christian indoctrination) class the teacher have told me that gay people are sick. At first it stabbed me because i was discovering myself and this sentence directly contradicted my existence. I remember in 2019 being bombarded by my previous figures of authority, calling me a plaque, illness, indoctrination (ironic isnt it), and mainly they have pushed a law that claimed my area was an "lgbt-free" zone. I hated myself for how everyone thought like that in my area, and wished I was straight, to the point where I forced myself to date a certain guy, looking at girls behind his back.
I remember when during faith confirmation (pol. bierzmowanie, i dunno if this is the correct name) the priest still insulted gay people and my mom had to stop me from walking out of the church not to disappoint the family.
At moments I still regret 'betraying' my family and country like this, knowing well i will never be as close to them as before. But I can't lie to myself anymore, as both an atheist and a lesbian.
(Sorry for poor language, I'm not a native speaker. Thanks for reading because i needed to get this out of my chest)
The moment you said "lgbt-free zone" my mind instantly went "POLAND!"
Anyways, we have those Christianity Indoctrination classes in Bosnia aswell.
The difference is that which religion you get depends on which Ethnicity is the Majority in the Area.
Croat Majority? Catholic.
Serb Majority? Orthodox.
Bosniak Majority? Islam.
Anyways, since i'm a Croat, i had to deal with Catholic Indoctrination during Class.
My Teacher said the same thing about Gays as yours.
Except, mine expanded it to "Helping" them.
And he also applies it to Non-Binary and Trans folk.
Most of the Time, he Tends to talk about Protestants and How they ruined everything for the Church with their Reformations.
Because getting rid of so many Traditions caused the Church to lose power, allowing Atheism to rise in Western Europe.
Or so he says.
It makes me sick. He just Treats Atheists as some Product of Protestantism! AS IF THERE ISN'T AN OPEN EX-CATHOLIC IN HIS FUCKING CLASSROOM.
The way Catholic Theocrats see the world is insane...
The only good thing about them is that they only care about Europe....
You were six and questioning the Noah's Ark story? Magnificent
Six year olds question everything, but yeah that's not exactly normal
Didn't we all? It's around that age you learn that questioning everything can get you in trouble, so you stop.
@@gabemerritt3139 but this guy in the video don't and so do I
@@user-vq8dq8jo5p yeah, but those are seemingly few, and even he and I stopped doing so verbally
I had doubts about religion at about the same age, at seven I found the religion course useless and at 17 I was fully aware I was atheist and I wasn't hiding it.
"The magic trick, once explained, can no longer deceive." OMG! I'm stealing this!
@@degaussingatmosphericcharg575although the magic trick was already proven false.
IKR?
Atheists do lie but their magic, when explained, can no longer deceive.
@@DanielKolbin nope,athiests use no magic,you do though.
@@DanielKolbin unless that's a bruh momentum joke.
brotherhood knight69, actually that is incorrect. Christianity and God don’t use magic. No matter what my view or beliefs are. But you do though.
just from watching the intro: its funny that we take a belief system seriously that can be picked apart by children
As you can see, my username shows exactly what this account is made for. I have made this account not for privacy, but for my fear of being disowned by a highly religious family. These videos have really helped me separate myself from the church. I'm still "playing along", though. I still go to church with my family on Sundays and holidays, take communion, and even take religious classes to get confirmed, and the teacher is a racist, homophobic bigot. I have remembered hearing him say that gay people go to hell, and that, wait for it, "They use the same black magic as the people in harry potter". I almost laughed at the ridiculousness of that comment. He also has told us fallacies such as: "Masturbation is a sin, I haven't done it in 30 years". My family has fallen victim to this ideology also, with her saying that gay marriage is valid and "doesn't count" (for your reference, I'm no a JW or anything like that, just holy roman catholic.) My uncle, who has become a slave in every way to religion, prays more than he eats or sleeps combined. I can never talk to him for enough time to even speak a sentence until I hear an "our father" coming out of him. I do not like the ideals of the church and it has many flaws. In the 13 years that I've been in the church, I know far more about it than I know maths or reading skills. I have spent so much time going to church that it is almost agonizing. I lose two hours of sleep every night because I have to pray at night. As soon as I can make my own decision, I will leave the church for good.
sounds like you had a problem with the church and your family members not the religion
@@cadds8055 the religion is connected with both of those
Religion is like a drug and its for free.
Some even develop a mental illness out of it as you may have noticed.
Religion is a way to divide people and promoting bigotry, the biggest scam in history
Good luck :)
@@lostinthecosmos6095 really what if he had good parents and went to a church that respected him and treated him well
It saddens me that my mother and I used to get along like pb and J, back when she wasn't so religious we would spend hours talking about ideas, memories, and all the trauma her and I bared through together. But when we moved to Georgia, she became so enthralled in Christianity, and when I came out as being gay...she lambasted me. She threatened to kick me out of the family if I didn't "change my ways," and said that I was blinded by demons caused by the past trauma I had endured at the hands of my biological father. She became violent and manipulative and made me work long hours in the fields (we're farmers) with no pay or medical help when I would get injured. It wasn't until I took her up on her word and left to be with my boyfriend that she somewhat changed her tune. It's so depressing to see that the almost two decades of great memories could be destroyed by a few phrases in a problematic book.
Indeed i dont get why religous people are so agressive to other people's ideals well actually the only people ive seen be agressive are Christians i feel bad for you and its not like you can change being gay it isnt a choice its a feeling you just dont feel for girls like you do boys and most of them dont understand that
I'm touched at the depth of abuse you were subject to, these vlogs must be healing and cathartic I hope - religion is a haven for narcissistic sociopaths. Most pretend, few there be that truly find life. Mr Elliott has a lot to answer for yet I applaud your authentic enquiry.
*I have heard Yeshua, audibly*
I'm a Respiratory Specialist with qualifications from 3 universities. The first time I heard Him I was neck deep in philosophy, Buddhism and any new age deep thinker deception. I was not looking for Jesus, was on a reprieve from studying - I heard Him but still didn't yield. An upstanding citizen but Deuteronomy describes me as being an abomination to God at that time, thank God for the dispensation of Grace we are in. I've escaped death many times, as a child I've been in write-off car crash, had bone crumbling tumours that sadly killed others, as an adult I was held at knife point, have been hit by a bus (my head smashed the windscreen as I was flung up like a rag doll, landing far over the opposite side of the road), I've survived trauma, violence, neglect, abuse, sabotage, early bereavement, lost everything twice and I have 4 children in heaven. I had even visited the Dalai Lama, when told I was dying of cancer, but alas there I was dying nothing was authentic, my medical knowledge of no comfort. That brought me to my knees in my own home, described as a 'good' person I cried out to God for Truth. He told me, He showed me, everything He said came to pass.
Once you see and hear Him it changes you forever.
I understand why the disciples and countless others were martyred. He is Love, but also a pure Holy, Terror to be revered. True Love involves Judgment, hating and destroying that which destroys innocence and growth. Yet He loves us so much to give us free will, God could make us subservient compliant robots - but no one wants significant relationships like that. Equally He gave the way back to reconciliation with Him, He covers our shame with His Righteousness in Christ Jesus as we've all fallen short of the Glory of God.
I wasn't an easy convert in spite of my experience, I still researched even though He forever changed me - God given Wisdom explained everything. That was in 2012, Jesus healed me and brought a miracle child against all odds. To those you refer to in Hinduism etc, God states Creation reveals Him and intelligent design in DNA. Abraham didn't have access to the new testament, but we are his descendents. Jesus loves you and paid the highest price to show you. I Pray you meet Him quickly beloved, time's almost up, prophesy converging at an alarming rate.
@@perhaps7995 not all religious people like that
@@momo-xg7mz No...but a lot are...
And then some feel like they need to make an infomercial for their god, all the way to the point of putting their "infomercial for god" in places where people do not care to see it...
Like the guy above...who thinks his anecdotal evidence proves his god...claims credentials with no evidence or proof...
I was going to report his...but, since the guy above your comment isn't being a colossal jerk, perhaps leaving his up is for the best, if only to show people how sick some christians really are...😳😵
@@christopheralthouse6378 not all of us are :(
Am I the only kid that asked about Heaven and almost hyperventilated with terror?
If you do good for the world you'll be stuck somewhere vague where nothing changes, with no nonhuman animals...
Surrounded by my abusive family members.
For eternity.
Who did you ask, a homeless person? This is a pretty odd and weirdly materialist description of the Kingdom of Heaven.
EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME! BRUH THAT SHIT WAS THE FIRST EXISTENTIAL TERROR I FELT
Me too!! I was crippled for several days until I decided to not think about it
@Bøï 89 Well no eye has seen nor ear has heard, so I'd guess those claims of going to heaven are just as legitimate as those of alien abductions
@@williamsmith9948 if god doesn't want us to go there why did he create it or why does he let it exist or why doesn't he make it extremely clear he exists beside a book written by man, you think if he really didn't want us to go to hell he would made more of an effort
I've just now begun my journey into atheism, and it didn't start with an analytical perspective like yours did, mine started with an emotional response. The loss of a loved one to cancer, he was extremely faithful, he was as any christian man was. And he died, in a slow, painful, agonizing way where all he had was suffering despite every amount of prayer everyone put out into the world for him. The cancer was actually surprisingly advanced according to the doctors. They did all kinds of things to try and remove it and all it did was make him sickly and discolored, with a bag draining fluid from his abdomen. All i could think was, "If he so loved god and god loved him why would he do this to him." when i went searching i came across the classic response of "god doesn't give us anything we can't handle." to which was extremely asinine, as my loved one obviously couldn't handle cancer because he was dying from it and was going to die regardless of what we did. If a god did exist and he loved us so much he would have just gotten it over with so at least he wouldn't suffer, why did god keep him around if he did exist, was he hoping my loved one would make it out? hoping for what, he had all the power, who did he hope to? no answers i could come up with made any sense. Then this feeling expanded to all hurt everywhere. All the death, all the crime, everything. If god existed then he is allowing all this to happen. We live in a much bigger world than moses did, are there honestly less sinners now than there was then? are we so much better off now? they say the rainbow is a promise that god won't destroy the world again, but revalation is still gonna happen apparently so is god keeping his promise or breaking it, and if god breaks his promise when things are bad enough, then again is the modern day still better than when moses lived. To me i have come to the conclusion, if god does exist he has turned his back on us. If he doesn't exist then that just makes more sense. Because at least that way i know it's all just a crap shoot and not someone's experiment.
I know this comment is old, so my apologies if I bring up sad memories, assuming you read this. I just wanted to say that I hope things will get better for you. I'm not religious in any sense, I won't spout anything about prayers. But I do hope that you will find the strength to move forward as best you can. Its hard, its really really hard. Reach out to friends you feel safe around, emerse yourself in new hobbies and communities. It sucks, its hard. Itll get better with time and self reflection, and good friends to help you. I wish you the best.
~ a stranger on the internet
A worse thought process is, he created us and the world KNOWING this would all happen, and still punishes us for it
I'm 12. (A very intellectual 12 year old, I might add) My parents are liberal Protestant Christians. I started questioning Christianity at 8. It was rough. I didn't have siblings to confide in or close (at the time) atheist friends. (My town is about a 90/10 split for Christians to Atheists, so its a little unpopular and people won't come out guns blazing as an atheist.) By 9 I knew at least most of Christianity was fake. My parents still forced me to go to Cristian summer camps (IDK why, but churches in my area love sending kids off for a week so they don't have to run a youth church for one Sunday of the year) and church. This all recently came to a head when my dog died over the summer. He was the best dog ever, and my parents loved him so much. The worst part was that he was only 6, a very young age for a dog to pass away. It made me angry at god. Even though I had doubts, I was praying for miracles, wishing and threatening god if he didn't save my best friend. He died, and I vowed for revenge. I argued with councilors, beating them down with superior logic. I barreled a speaker (Who went to a bible school and got a degree in Religious Studies) to the "Just have faith" line. I told 4 kids at the summer camp about my beliefs and explained my reasons. (One turned out to be an agnostic and is still my friend today!) Two of my best Christian friends also went to this camp. One of them spent half his life in my house, and my mother was effectively his godmother. This kid was my best human friend. I would roll my eyes at some of the dumb points pastors made. On the last day of camp the subject was demons. I was pulled out of the sermon and was sent to the head youth pastor. (I go to a larger church, so that's a big deal.) He told me that he had heard i was talking about being an atheist and seemed genuinely upset. I explained the less logical reasons for my lack of belief (ex. being homophobic) and he sent me back in. They split us into smaller groups. My bro, the kid I've spent my life with, was in it. I berated him, telling him my feelings and how hurt I was that he chose a false religion over a human who (platonically) loved him. I then shoved him out of the way so I could storm away. (He continues to allege I threw a punch.) He has not apologized for ruining many friendships that were hurt with other people, including my parents. I stood up during the small group and told the kids and teenager running the group how idiotic they were for believing in demons and exorcisms. When we arrived back home, thankfully my parents hadn't learned through the grapevine. I told them the next morning, and they took it well. I know how lucky I am and know how many silent secular voices there are. Always keep learning, and never shy away from facts!
I'm sorry for your loss, welcome to freedom and being in charge of your own morality and life! It's better on this side.
i have nothing but admiration and respect for how mature you already were when you were young, and your willingness to ask questions, challenge the unreasonable beliefs and how you stood your ground. i aspire to be like you, amazing videos.
i’ve always thought of all these thoughts you’ve mentioned in these videos, but just couldn’t put them together coherently to make good arguments, thanks for organising all of this so neatly.
i grew up in a christian family, mainly my grandparents, i was baptised as a baby and forced to go to church and attend to masses and sunday schools. whenever i expressed that i didn’t want to go, they would tell me it’s a sin not to, and if i wanted to end up in heaven i would need to go. one day on saturday, i said to my grandparents, i don’t want to go to the church anymore, you can’t force me to, i didn’t choose to be christian, i was baptised when i was a baby, when i couldn’t make my decisions, they said i will suffer in hell. and all the other arguments just like the ones you and your parents had.
When I approached my parents and told them I no longer believed in God I feared I would encounter something like what you did. Fortunately for me my parents were more pragmatic, and continued respecting and loving me (best chance of getting me back).
I am so sorry this had to happen to you and so many others. Presently I believe religion can be used helpfully as a coping mechanism for some, but for the vast majority of people it just facilitates cruelty and ignorance.
I'm glad your disclosure was received with respect and love. Reactions to differences and disagreements say a lot about relationships don't they. Your mention of religion as a coping mechanism for some is something I'll be looking at in one of the next couple of videos.
I wish I had parents like your.....
Didnt they cry? I am so afraid of breaking my mothers heart... thats why i am hiding it
Ooof. Dang. I wish.
@@TheraminTrees of course it is a coping mechanism.
That's why smart people use that mechanism for.
Why shouldn't they ?
How do people actually cope, without God.
Jesus the Christ, is someone,
one says yes to, and ALL may, if they choose.
The fact that people fall away from choosing to receive His holy, holy, and most amazing grace, mercy, love, compassion, fortitude and hope, is man made, not God.
It's fulfilling to come to Him.
Satisfying. Educating. TRUTH.
The calm, admidst the storm, and, the guiding light when in a valley of shadow.
It is not something, to resist.
Rather something to offer and,
share.
It's qualifying, tangible, real and it grows, which is contentment.
Because Jesus , can handle it.
When I can't.
Because it's about Him.
And not you or me.
Because He is Lord, and most high judge,
and I am nothing other than deserving, of the unblemished and righteous judgment,
of course when He,
allows that to happen.
As for everyone. So, it's comforting, to be aware, awake and armed, in life, during time on earth, with
Jesus the Christ.
He is the way, the truth and the life, and no matter what anyone says, to contradict this,
is deluded.
Jesus loves you. Jesus does.
Can, and always will,
be most high, first only and number one, everlasting God.
Because He is. Because it's FACT. And that's what I love most about faith. When you know, you know, and that's all there is to it. The ultimate defence, against the wicked, and evil one, who runs the world, Satan.
There's no WAY, I will be letting go of Him. And would be insane,
if I did, especially when,
I'm only fifty. That's still young .
I am still young, with Jesus close. You don't deserve anything LESS to know, he loves love's love's you.
Repent and surrender your life to Jesus Christ.
God has been real quiet ever since this video came out
always has been
Imagine having such an ego you think that the creator (not Jesus or Yahweh or allah) has to show himself to you
@@parkfamily9776 why couldn't he
@@XanGious because all he did was created. For all we know, he may not even be listening or anything, just observing
Park Family listening is observing... what
No matter our journey, the final step seems the same for us all. We beg the god with whom we'd had such a close "relationship" to reassure us, only to be met with silence.
It is quite reasonable to believe in God. There are many, many good arguments, but let's just start with the basics because really nothing else is necessary. Here are some simple arguments that cannot be disputed, laid out:
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
because he's not real.
@@jkyles1000 And that first mover could have been some other God, it could have been Allah, Vishnu, or Odin. There is nothing to say your God is the right one.
There are other problems with the argument too, however it is such a common argument I'm sure you can just google them if you wish to know.
While I realize you come here with good intentions, this is a channel for people who have left religion, we aren't here to hear the arguments. We've heard them before. We are here to help eachother through a difficult journey, one with often very little support from family and friends.
"this makes so little sense that it must be an elaborate test put on by adults to test children" -- I grew up atheist because my parents chose not to explicitly indoctrinate me and let me decide for myself (tangent: if that doesn't tell you atheism is simply logical, idk what does), but I relate to this as an autistic person. the social rules and punishments were so completely utterly arbitrary I simply didn't believe as a kid that anyone truly thought they were a good idea; I was convinced they had all woken up and decided to abuse me for no reason, or that it was some kind of test.
@jazzyj2182 we’ve already read the bible, thanks. thats why we’re atheists. its sad that some people are so desperate to ignore all logic that opposes them that they become these mindless drones that spew meaningless words all day, knowing they wont affect anyone here in any way, its a stunt for your own ego.
"What a waste" is such a perfect summation for the years of personal growth that get eaten away by dogma and indoctrination
@Erick GP that's wrong btw, God demands that children should die if they disobey.
For me 40 fucking years. 30 years as a buddhist and 10 years as a christian. Now I'm 41 and start to enjoy life for the first time. Thank God I finally become an atheist.
It's also a perfect phrase when considering that through their votes these stupid religious types may exacerbate climate change and all the horrors it will bring over the next centuries.
if you wanna talk about waste, think in scale. Imagine how much lives, money and knowledge were wasted throughout the history.
@@sillypenquin9189 That's ironic...lol !
Theramintrees: *questions literally everything*
Churchy people: because, floating boy
Or because thats their opinion and they have many different reasons to believe in christianity.
@@bbbbmmm-ui3ht Like?
@@Adam-yr2nq wdym like?
@@bbbbmmm-ui3ht What well explainable reasons do they have to believe in christianity?
@@bbbbmmm-ui3ht they mean "what are the examples of those reasons?"
These videos are so cathartic. I can’t talk about my beliefs openly for fear of harsh ridicule. I can’t tell my mom how difficult it was to give up my faith, it doesn’t matter to her. All that matters is that I don’t believe, and that’s “wrong” to her. I also can’t go to her for regular emotional support half the time because she’ll just bring up God, which triggers me and makes me feel worse.
There have been a few times that I’ve had to use support hotlines because I know I can’t rely on my parents for emotional support. (I can’t rely on my dad for completely different reasons- he basically just downplays my issues and exalts his own)
So this channel has definitely been therapeutic for me. It’s great that there are places I can go to hear stories similar to my own so I know that I’m not alone.
🤝
In a way, she might feel sad that you're gonna part ways with her when the FUTURE judgement occurs, but her faith keeps her moving fowards.
Otherwise, you feel sad that in your PRESENT you're not having the support you need in your life, and the collective support from other people that focus on present issues is helping you.
I hope you can be happy in your life, and we're never alone. We will all love each other
Have you tried to go to "Recovering from religion" ?
This video sorta single-handedly made me realize I was atheist/convinced me to be atheist. You're kinda the only person who's ever shared my doubts about God without putting "but he's God so it's ok" afterwards, or "it'll make sense when we get to Heaven". I actually felt loads more confident in my own ability to THINK after I realized that doubting God wasn't a character flaw but just, like, a thought!! A thought that I had and that I was ok for having!! Thank you T-T
Dude, I was just going to write the same thing.. Altho I'm agnostic, it feels refreshing to see people with similar thoughts! Thx you made my day
@@rooploverence I bet there are thousands of people with similar thoughts on this video alone!! But it's very nice to hear from someone who feels the same. Neither of us are alone in this. Best wishes, man!!!
As a 15 year old atheist from an extremely Catholic family, conservative community, and attend a Catholic private school, I understand how isolating it can feel. There have been times when I wish I wasn't so skeptical, when I wish that like all of my other friends I could just accept what I was told. I suppose, however, that really would never have been possible though. Not only am I am atheist, but a lesbian. Therefor, not only did there religious beliefs not stand scrutiny, but they directly opposed who I am. Discovering my sexuality was the first link in a chain reaction that began my loss of faith. At the current moment, I have a few close friends who know I'm an atheist. My mother is aware, to an extent. I haven't said flat out that I'm an atheist, I have questioned many arguments for god and pointed out the faulty logic in many of her assertions. She discovered that I'm a lesbian via my youtube watch history (LGBTQ youtubers, coming out stories, tips for coming out). That really didn't go well. She believes I am going through a "teenage rebellion," that I have bee, brainwashed by "leftist propaganda," that I have been influenced by satan, and that *somehow* all of this has to do with her. That the only reason I think the way I do, am the way I am, and believe what I believe, is to make her angry. Because of this argument, anything that I say, any point I put forth, has no validity since I'm simply an "angsty teen." Something however that is very difficult is that I am of the age that you usually get confirmed. I took confirmation class last year, and am supposed to continue with it in order to be confirmed in May. However, I feel as though I am a complete fraud. I believe nothing that they are teaching us. In order to get confirmed I am required to write quite a few essays and a letter asking to be confirmed. So not only am I omitting the truth, I am blatantly lying. Now, I was home schooled up until 4th grade (when I began attending Catholic school) and I was apart of a small Catholic home school group. I have known them basically all my life, and some of my friends from there are in my confirmation class. I'm afraid of the social isolation (having mainly only Christian people around me), rumors, and mean looks I would get from these people that I've cared about for so long if they knew the real me. However, don't know how long I can maintain this facade. I have begun distancing myself from my old friends, that way it won't be so difficult when/if I end up losing them. I'm just fucking sick of lying. I'd rather people hate me for who I am then love me for who I'n not, as sad as it is. If you actually read this then.....wow, thanks. I kinda just wrote it for myself, you know? To get it out there and organize my thoughts in a way. Well. thanks for reading.
thanks and best wishes to you
Rose, I wish you the very best in coming out to your friends and family. I love the way you summed it up: "I'd rather people hate me for who I am than love me for who I'm not."
@@Soapandwater6 Thanks, I can't remember where I heard that quote, but whoever came up with it was genius. Thank you for replying, it means a lot. :)
Thanks for your story. You know, I've also grown up in a technically catholic family, even though it went quite differently than it did for you. My parents weren't big advocates of the christian faith, even though my mother was a Christian. My father would often teach me about science and space exploration. One of my earliest memory was seeing astronauts doing repairs on the Hubble space telescope on TV. As such, I quickly realized the contradictions between our indoctrination classes at school and what science was saying.
I started making fun of my grandmother's beliefs, started arguing and trolling christian teachers in class and certainly made no attempt to camouflage my atheism. Eventually confronted my mother with the absurdity of her beliefs, as well as my close friends whose faith was wavering already in some cases.
Nobody in my entourage now is christian. They've all been deconverted, one way or another. I was arrogant and confrontational, but I don't regret it.
If you don't feel like doing your Confirmation, I suggest you not do it. It's a lot more satisfying to assert who you are and your position loud and clear rather than hang your head low and whimper a contrived "yes" to please whoever expects unreasonnable things of you.
Hello my follow human and creation. If you are feeling as a fraud take a break, find out what it means to be a Christian. You are an honest person and that is good. Made I recommend you read the book of Philippines and Ephesians? Just read it slowly and highlight things you did not know before. Then Colossians and 1 John. After that ask your self questions. Treat it as you did English class. Figure out what is the point of it all. Then message me and let's talk.
I've always been a Christian myself. I was praised and promoted to ask any questions at all. It was just shown as showing interest.
I can't fathom the idea of punishing a child for asking questions with a child-like curiosity.
Well then good for you. We need more nice people like you and the community you grew up in in this world.
@@that_one_strange_person There are many christians who don't take these books litterally. Which I think is the right approach. As long as someone believes it because they want to and wish to help others; I think its fine. Such as loving your neighbor as yourself, and helping others. We can all do that without religion, but it often makes it easier for people to do this when their is some authority directing it. I don't think that trying to "prove" god's existence or demanding belief is the right idea. Many religious folk need to start accepting they don't have to convert others or demand obedience. Its harmful to others and their religion.
@@MasterGhostf I'm not particuarly certain if you're attempting to refute me or agree with me, but I definitely agree with you.
@@chicken29843 saying this is the same as me asking you why you have believed in the pursuit of science that has been around for basically as long as writing- you can make any train of thought seem absurd.
I’m glad you and your brother had each other’s backs during this so neither of you felt completely isolated. Great video as always.
I'm glad i saw that dog in your PFP today. Much-needed eye-bleach from the sheer stupidity on display in this comment section. Is the dog yours?
Man, this gave me chills. I'm a former muslim who lives in Iran. I lost my faith seven years ago, and this video illustrates how it happens really well. It's a gradual process in which one's critical thinking slowly consumes their faith until nothing is left of it.
I remember being so goddamn bored in meetings. I remember staring at whorls in the wood of the pew in front of me. Staring up into the ceiling at the light fixtures.
I have similar memories. And I remember the intense cold.
@@TheraminTrees I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to say your videos are very interesting and informative. I was fortunate in that I didn't have to endure the kinds of abuse that can proliferate freely in those kinds of environments, but I wish I had found your videos a few years ago when I was going through AA which has such an emphasis on God I couldn't make use of the program as I was a rigid atheist. It was so frustrating I would have found a lot of validation if I'd found your channel then. I especially liked your video on how cults groom adults, I don't think I've ever seen it explained like that before. Thank you for your hard work on these videos.
I've just been forced to go back to my religious private all girl's school (I'm a lesbian, agnostic, stoner, witch in training, who was kicked out of my past school so I was a little nervous) and I almost cried during a Three hour speech about how the fish talks to us and questions are a sin lmao
@@schnitzelberry I'm really sorry for your situation. It seems like a long time away, but being an adult is way different than being under 18, and if you can just hang in there it really does get better. Take care of yourself until then.
Robyn Smith: I used to take a pack of cards when I was in my early teens (but still under parent's rules)......I got lots of disapproving looks from the "sheep" but playing patience was a lot more interesting than listening to the nonsense that the preacher was spouting.
Your 'deconversion moment' was actually identical to mine. It happened around the same age, likely due to my parents not particularly trying to force religion on me, we simply went to church, it wasn't an enforced belief. I still remember that night. I was in my room alone, made sure everyone was asleep, and I got to my knees and prayed at the bed side. I think my words were, "God, I don't know if I'm actually talking to anyone right now or if I'm just talking to myself. Could you say something? If not, I'm going to have to just assume that you don't exist and it's just me here right now". Exactly as you stated....silence.
And at that stage of asking for god, the silence hits HARD. Like, there were so many instances in the bible where god came and directly interacted with those asking for him, and if not that then it was said "god works in mysterious ways" so I waited for a sign. Anything. But its the silence that is such a horrible feeling. "His eye is on the sparrow, but why is it not on me?" It made me feel so small, so inadequate and unworthy. Lol sorry this video exposed a huge wound for me, but I'm at least glad im out of that space
@@DanielYapHZ I happened to be lucky in my youth, for my parents going to church was more about community and a vague sense of 'spirituality' than actual communion with a god. As it was, when I came to my realizations about the god stories, it hit me less hard than figuring out the truth about Santa had (at least Santa had written me hand-written notes each year, so I had more reason to think they were real).
I kinda figured that's how everybody lost faith
This argument is always refuted with a "THOU SHALL NOT TEST YOUR GOD"....
not sure how i can respond to that other than saying how good a job it does at protecting the lie.
@@kennyv1854 Here's a question to consider...why _can't_ you test god? If someone asked _you_ to do something you can easily, effortlessly do, there are a number of reasons you might still say no, but those reasons wouldn't apply to an omnipotent god.
a) 'You're just a human', for a god to not do something _just_ because it was asked of by someone 'lesser' is a sign of arrogance and pride...not attributes of any god worth caring about even if they did exist.
b) 'God wants you to have faith', faith is demonstrably not a good way to find the truth, failing to even teach children meaningful lessons. If my child asks me why they shouldn't cross the road without looking, if I told them 'because a car might be coming down the road and you could get hurt' vs 'you just need to have faith in my words'...which situation has lead to my child having a better understanding of the world, and more knowledge overall? What's more, if one took the bible as anything more than just stories (they really shouldn't) it depicts god physically meeting and talking to people...so if then, why not now?
c) 'You can't just demand god to do what you want', while this may be reasonable in some circumstances (asking god for super powers or all the world's money, frivolous requests), it's hardly an unreasonable demand to simply ask 'I'm not sure if you actually exist, could you give me...any indication I'm not just talking to myself in an empty room?'
I could go on, really. Ultimately if the reasoning could equally be applied to _any_ god, it's not particularly useful. "Zeus creates the lightning" "Can we run some tests and see if that's true?" "Though shall not test your Zeus!" is an equally meaningless situation. "Don't test X" just tells me "There is no evidence for X".
I was born into an atheist tradition, so I have always revered those who were born into Christianity, and who managed to escape by the sheer force of their critical thinking. You are the true geniuses, I'm not sure how I would have fared if forced into it.
I was raised atheistically, but when I went to college I opened my mind to theism. First I was spiritualistic, having taken a course on Buddhism and the Buddhist philosophies. It wasnt long before I began exploring all sorts of belief systems, and when I began to actually read the Bible, it all started coming together for me. I am a Physicist, Philosopher, and Follower of Christ. Yes Churches and Pastors may mislead the people, but Scripture does not lie.
@@beamshooter
I’m curious. Have you read the Old Testament?
@@executeorder6613 I have not read it in its entirety, I have read up to Samuel 2 fully, and excerpts from other books.
@@beamshooter
Reading the Old Testament was what made me an atheist, so I was curious to see what you had read.
Thanks for humoring me.
Scripture doesn't lie?...😂😂
Losing faith; gaining cognition.
Funny, how actually reading the bible made you lose faith. It did the same to me.
"The best cure for Christianity is reading the bible" - Mark Twain
It's not an uncommon event.
Same, their god seems to be very sexist and cruel, and the Q'ran guy is even worse, these archaic and barbaric hung ups should have no room in modern society, alas humans seem incapable of evolving
God in the old testament killed more people than hittler and stalin combined lol
Same here.
I'm so sorry your parents were like that, my man.
Jesus cried for the sake of the people who were emotional over Lazarus' death. He had empathy for them. But ultimately he wants us to know that we do not need to weep over lost loved ones like those who reject Him and have no greater hope. Because we will see them again, we can gain the right perspective to deal with these things. Sure you can explain it away as wishful thinking, or the imagination of someone who doesn't want to miss their loved ones... Or you can learn to understand God is real, and these things are true. It really is a choice, whichever way you decide to go.
No one goes to heaven when they die, they are asleep until Jesus returns to raise the dead and they and those who are still alive will be gathered together.
Also, there is not only heaven, but the New Earth that we will live on. But basically the heavenly realm/dimension will be together with the New Earth.
Do I know every mystery of how that will actually occur? No, but I know enough about God's word being true throughout history and within my own life after turning to Him, to know his future promises are true as well.
I hope you will learn more about spiritual things before deciding God isn't real and convince yourself there is no purpose to the temporary suffering we experience right now.
Tracey M
Unfortunately, God has already dictated that I be tortured forever for things out of my control, so you're a fair bit too late here, mate.
@@camolotthe42 No, no one will be tortured forever, that is a false teaching. If you read scripture you can clearly see whoever is lost will perish, be as ash, consume away. Hell itself will be destroyed. The lost are not given eternal life, and even an eternal burning would still be life. That opposes God's word. If you learn the language of the bible, there are parables, metaphor,s, symbolism, things that would be made clear to someone truly seeking to reconcile with the truth. God is loving, so obviously torture for eternity doesn't make sense.
But you also have to learn a new perspective that allowing some temporary suffering or pain doesn't mean God isn't loving. And countless people around the world know God's word is true, has been fulfilled throughout history, they don't continue living in doubt, and then use that doubt to fuel fears about being burned for eternity, or use it to fuel their resentment against God and resentment or mockery of those who do know the truth and follow God. You have a choice right now today to go on another path, so please rethink your decision.
I know God will be fair to everyone based on their circumstances and understanding. He knows those who truly did not want what he was offering, who looked at the idea and laughed at it. That is not for me to judge, but yet I can see the effects of someone who is currently on that path and see they're going in the wrong direction. But there is still hope for you or anyone else.
Tracey M
No, look. I'm gay. The Bible dictates that I must be killed for that. That's the end of it.
@@camolotthe42 I'm sorry that you're worried or upset about that, it is difficult for sure. God also says many other issues humans deal with cannot exist for eternity when it is restored. But are you open at all to the idea of not being gay one day, and of being free from many other issues you face other than that? If that wasn't God's design for men and women, then are you willing to acknowledge that? Are you willing to see this temporary broken time for what it is, that we all are facing issues that God doesn't intend for us? It's important to be open-minded and not so grounded in feelings( which are very real and difficult to face on many levels ) or what the world says is possible.
God knows you're dealing with that and cares, and there are opportunities to lessen the temptation, to not be so focused on it, to not surround yourself with people who support it and drive those ideas, to not indulge, but to retrain the pathways in the brain to desire other things more.
It's not easy, but when you know God's word is true, you have a solid foundation to view everything from a new perspective for eternity that gives you the strength to endure and overcome things you otherwise wouldn't.
There are so many other things in life to care about, but I believe it's important to divide a fight against unfair treatment and a fight for homosexuality. Because I believe all humans need to be treated with dignity and respect as they are made in the image of God. But first and foremost I have to regard God's word before humans. So, while I would treat someone with as much care as I could in all areas, I would not be able to meet their expectation of saying homosexuality is right, so they would feel discriminated against. It's not something that can be reconciled.
You have to take it day by day. God does love us, and as difficult as the reality of our existence right now is, to be involved in this battle, we can choose to take part in this story, one way or another. I've faced many difficult things, and struggle daily and get upset with God too, but I also know it's temporary and think it's worth the fight to not give up and to hold onto the truth and the promises of God. I personally have hope that everyone will be saved, and this time is a testimony of what sin does, what humanity does apart from God, how it destroys us on so many levels, but also a testimony where the light comes in and redeems us in so many ways too. I've heard many testimonies of former LGBT people, so I have hope in what God can do when someone comes to a point of softening their heart toward God and his love for them as an individual, regardless of whatever they have done.
I know I would be a different person if I had not suffered so many things, or if I had complete faith in God, and I look forward to eternity where that will be true, I will be restored and I won't have any doubt or fear, I will have the fully clear picture of who God really is.
I'm a Christian and I was raised to be a Christian by my family but wasn't a real Christian until I was 10 but I have had parallels with your experience such as the thought "Where did all the water for the flood come from?". I've also faced the "Don't question God's word!" response before.
I now believe that the flood was a large regional flood which I have biblical and scientific arguments for. Thank you for posting this video TheraminTrees. It's nice to see that I have shared experiences with non-Christians about the Bible.
I always felt the sentiment of the Bible had more value than as a history book or literal guide. Many things like the flood do tend to be apocrypha from historical events or local preexisting tales.
Or just maybe, no such Flood ever happened
i mean even if a flood did happen around that time and that's what the story is based on, but there is no evidence of any creator having a hand in it, or in anything else in our world.
@@gwit4051 True, but I know of nobody who claims to be able to prove that a creator was involved
@@ollybolly2881 there are many that make the claim that one was, but you are right in that there are none that can give any actual proof to support it.
i found that in youth groups it was constantly competition on who was the most religious. judgments were made against those who were less vocal about faith, and i remember seeing low confidence in those who weren’t vocal or accepted. we all had self-esteem issues. and we’d all make up experiences with god or mistake imagination for god.
When people ask me about my religion, I never say I "lost my faith", more on the lines of I "gained reason and insight".
Superb video!
@@estrellabax2024 Over the course of my life, I've given away a great many worthless things.
I say I didn't lose it, I outgrew it.
I'm gonna wait till I'm entirely financially separate from my family before I mention lack of faith.
Me too
Same,,
Same here
I wish you the best of luck! I hope your families don't take it too hard!
Good thinking, Batman. Best of luck.
In my school faith is forced upon the student, I hated every moment in the school church and religious study class, because no one asked me, halfway through 5th grade I realized the lies and the dogma, I found the same dismissal of contradictions as he did, and as a idealist I refused to kneel in mass, they called my parents for misconduct. And when they talked to me I said “I will not bow to anything or anyone, for it is a sign of superiority.” I was told that god was superior, and my response was that there is no evidence for a god. Now I am in 9th grade, and I am still coerced to follow religious tradition, which I steadfastly refused to. I played along, but I didn’t pray, kneel nor did communion. The teachers hate me, though some admired the resilience and became friends with me. I also found friends that didn’t believe in god, next year I will not have to do any religious nonsense since I am going to a high school where there is no religion attached.
I’m glad you’ll get out of it and have found friends. You are not alone
that school should not exist
@@Dock284Another part of it were the insults my classmates commented, that perdured for 9 years, calling me either a fascist or a communist, slave (they dont know the difference between mexican and african american :/, even though none deserve being called that) even though they were the ones to ostricize, threaten and behave among extremist and rascist lines.
Excellent talk! I was raised as an evangelical christian and embraced it for 45 years of my life. I too was able to systematically crawl out of that crab bucket! At 62 years....I am free of all storytelling!
I still mourn the loss of precious time and still have periodical anger associated with being lied to.
It may be hard to not feel like all that time was wasted, but if it was not your fault I would say that it's simply a bad lot, and the fact you were able to leave it behind is more important than all the years you were part of it.
You know what would've been a better idea than hell?
Getting reborn as every person you killed.
ua-cam.com/video/h6fcK_fRYaI/v-deo.html
In that case you should kill old, sickly people who previously had happy lives.
Find a person, make them happy for as long as possible, and kill them *painlessly* . Do this to as many people as possible.
People who got 10 abortions: *nervous sweating*
or let everyone experience all the joy and all the suffering that was caused by themselves.
I appreciate how you worked the word Higgledy-pigglety into such a serious video.
It’s a great word isn’t it hahaha
I'm in awe that people in the comments are still Christians. The mental gymnastics they must use to preserve the faith that is all we know about earth against.
Me too. Like, did they even watch the video?? I can't wrap my head around it
this is a literal masterpiece
alot of his videos are. I'm now more opened minded due to him:)
It is quite reasonable to believe in God. There are many, many good arguments, but let's just start with the basics because really nothing else is necessary. Here are some simple arguments that cannot be disputed, laid out:
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
@@jkyles1000 well, where did god come from?
@@jkyles1000 Classic god of the gaps argument
Even if there was a God, it's a huge leap to assume that Christianity or any other is now suddenly right.
@@jkyles1000Greek Philsophy, "Universal law of cause and effect" - those are ideas of man, not God. And man is a fallable creature.
Just because man cannot fully explain the universe - which is infinitely more expansive than our tiny brain - does not necessitate the need for a god.
God is such an arrogant notion. Arrogance in believing that man is at the center of the universe, and that the universe holds no mysteries because it was made perfectly for us.
I have a very similar story, this video means a lot to me. thank you.
@@TheraminTreesStop deceiving these PEOPLE. To start off in genesis. GOD told adam and eve not to eat from the tree and when the devil deceived them, adam and eve became the ones to blame for listing to the snake and not not LISTENING to god and ultimately paid the price. Its like your father telling you not to eat the cookies off the table and when ur sister showed up and said come on brother its just one cookie and then yall ate it, your going to be in trouble for following her.
@@TheraminTrees Another debunk. God is almight he can do anything, so where did the water come from? GOD. where did it go ? Away. Simple as that
@@TheraminTrees Another debunk . Just beacuse it was someones time to die and you had prayed for them doesn't make ur prayera pointless. Prayer is about your feelings and thoughts with god not whether your questions will be answerd. The fact that you prayed foe someone in their time of need was more than enough.
@@TheraminTrees Fear is the first step to knowledge and just beacuse he wants his people to fear him doesent change anything. If you contiune to fear god then you dont truly love him thats what that verse means
@@TheraminTrees Psalms 51 says you do not take pleause in burnt offerings, GOD can take pleasure in what ever he wants
"The perfect system for protecting lies!"
Very well put
@@jamesmac357 Why comment about a video you obviously didn't watch?
@@jamesmac357 Your comment. Demostrates stronger how dishonest. You are.
@@jamesmac357 How so. I am just explaining how your comment sounds to me.
James Mac777 I am disrespecting (to put it mildly) the Christian rules because firstly I think they are harmful and secondly I see no reason why I should respect them, so?
JamesMac777 What makes you think that the Bible is the truth?
I am very glad that my family was never really religious.
I was raised as a catholic until I was old enough to realize that the catholic church is founded on negative feedback. You are punished for not attending church, you are punish for not believing, you must confess sins when you have not committed any, and on and on in a negative feedback system. I am now in my late 70's and believe religion may be the the biggest farce committed against earthlings. We are but a small moment of a very large universe, yet religions act like we are the center of the universe. I believe that there are other society's in the universe that are developed far beyond us as earthlings.
My cold stare came from my asking my dad about dinosaurs....he got furious and said they were planted by Satan And numerous questions followed only to be followed by a hammering voice saying don't question "God"! ......25 yrs later, I left everything I've known. Ppl that where my adoptive parents and friends I've known to be my siblings. Cause we "are ALL Gods children "! How quickly they turned when I went a different way. I was anything but a brother or sister! I was an Enemy! You're videos are so GOOD!!!!!! Thank yoy!
@S Robin Dinosaurs existed, there is no thing such satan lmfao.
@S Robin Funny thing, i did my research at lot of different scientific sources. The flat earth theory is against the laws of physics and got debunked many times. Btw. i am not ignorant and i am always open to new theorys. If you want to convince me otherwise, please link me your sources.
@S Robin And the Evolution is not just a theory. Wikipedia: To the public, theory can mean an opinion or conjecture (e.g., "it's only a theory"), but among scientists it has a much stronger connotation of "well-substantiated explanation". With this number of choices, people can often talk past each other, and meanings become the subject of linguistic analysis.
Its official.
@S Robin Wolfgang was a little bit off in the definition, so I'll try to explain a bit better (if I can, which I may not be able to). The theory of evolution is a scientific theory, rather than the more common use of the term. The distinction is that a scientific theory is a model to explain what we already observe, like how all things fall, so we have the Theory of General Relativity. The difference between a scientific theory and a regular theory in the common use is that a scientific theory is the theory for that particular phenomena that has survived being questioned and criticised, and is best supported by the evidence provided. Adaptation in environments has been observed, evolution is simply the model by which that adaptation occurs.
Dinosaurs, which were reptiles, overtime evolved into birds. That's hilarious. Amen.
I’ve just finished looking through a small portion of the comments on this video and couldn’t help but notice the shockingly high percentage of them giving thanks for such an eloquent depiction of your experiences and saying that these experiences were not yours alone but shared by many people. I must have read at least 100-200 comments recanting similar experiences suffered throughout childhood and even into adulthood. All of these stories seem to contain experiences of abuse, whether it be emotional or physical, when questioning or rejecting their faith. That is 100-200 cases of abuse that I have read about mostly directed towards children out of 5,400 comments (at time of posting) on one video.
Any other large scale organisation that caused that many cases of abuse, emotional or physical, would have been publicly denounced, vilified and possibly classified as a hate group. Yet it seems the magic power of god and religion makes all of these concerns and children’s voices be squashed and snuffed out.
The fact that I was unaware of the challenges all of these people have gone through makes me disappointed in myself and society as a whole. This should be a much larger conversation and topic than it is.
Truly disappointing.
I know how you feel, sadly there is much more ignorant people than people that are rational in this world.
You are a victim of deception:
Religion is nothing more than a scapegoat. you blame religion but stop half the way.
If you start questioning the existence of god you should also question the existence of morality and the concept of good and evil of their own.
And then think about how you treat people who dare to question those things and disobey them. you will be no different from those fundamentalists
@@deltaxcd Morals exist because those who held morals and ethical beliefs (even instinctually) had social groups which performed better than those that lacked ethics. Morals exist because it is beneficial to everyone if nobody tries to stab anybody. That's the difference between true, unadulterated morals and the Bible's parroting of said morals.
You don't need fear of punishment to be a good person.
@@clickpause8732
well, first there is no such thing as instinctive morals they are all result of indoctrination.
and second pretty much every group has different morals, while those morals are wahst separates groups from each otter in one group is ti ok to kill your wife when you suspect adultery and in another group, it is not ok.
and if we compare which group is doing better, unfortunately, groups who are stabbing people are expanding and those who don't are shrinking.
@@deltaxcd That's as a result of a secondary predictor of population expansion, education. When the access to education is greater, the population growth drops, and vice versa.
For places like that, the problem can be seen in the commonality of religious beliefs and 'morals', which also goes down as education increases.
Fundamental morality is a little more vague, and there are of course genetic outliers, like sociopaths. For the majority of people, fundamental morals are expressed in the form of empathy, since a vast majority of laws beside are caused by that. Laws like what you mentioned are usually only present as a secondary by-product of religious belief within that nation.
"I thought I was the only one". Oh how many times have I heard those words in so many different situations...
I was raised in the Baptist church. My parents wanted me to be part of the church, be also encouraged me to question my beliefs. It’s sad that others are forced to believe things.
I was encouraged to question too, and to doubt. My parents told me doubt was good, a path to a stronger faith. My questions were met with loving support, if not an answer. So, I ventured further. They took it back when I became an atheist.
Thank you for this. I’m living this story right now as an atheist in a mormon home and it’s so hard. I love my parents and family so much but it feel like their love is conditional on me staying in the church. At first I put up a fight with arguing with them but over the years i’ve become so tired of it all. I feel so uncomfortable in my own home. At least in a year I will be able to move out and go to college.
No worries, you will find the college hollow too. Between the crippling debt, a fading promise of a half decent job, an ecstasy phase, and probably about dozen different guys. Classical liberalism is a piles of lies and unkempt promises. And sadly mormonism drank that koolaid.
Every conversation will require balance. Remember, it is the duty of every individual to follow what they believe and be honest. I believe in you. You have already been set free to an extent. Many people wish we would have realized this sooner. You could have realized this when you were already married in a Mormon temple, or gone through several years of being a missionary…
If they only love you because you're a Mormon, then it probably is conditional
I grew up in a mormon home as an athiest. I am so sorry you are going through that. I hope you got out and found a group of people who can help you learn to be your own person without your parents toxic influence. Yes, many mormon parents do love their children, but what I say about my own parents is that they obviously love their narrative more.
Because I know how this experience can unfortunately define a large part of ones life, If you ever need someone to talk to who shares some of your past, I offer my time to you.
I hope you're doing well!! Also I really hope that College life has been great for you.
Watching this actually made me cry, your story resounded so much from my own personal experience, and for years I've had only myself to understand what I've gone through. I live in the most "christian" country in Asia; The Philippines, and one cannot imagine how much of an outcast I feel within my own house, not one can understand or empathize what I've internally gone through, the questions I have asked, and the dreadful but enlightening answers I have arrived at. To be viewed as evil and corrupt by my own parents, to be reminded by my whole family that I am doomed to eternal torture. To be surrounded by friends and loved ones watching them torture themselves with self hate and self loathing, denying themselves the pleasures of life and freedom that atheism can give us.
Thank you for your story.
Kumusta na po kayo ngayon? 😀
Saan ka sa pinas bro? Same tayo. Last September 2020 lang ako naging full-pledged atheist. Lumaki ako sa church pero nung bata ako dami ko naring tanong kahit sa sunday school. Wala ako makausap kasi hindi rin alam ng parents ko at nakaka attend parin ako sa church..
Sorry to hear about your pains, I hope you're in a better place now. Your doubts are valid and your path has worth 🤍
I think for me, being prohibited from online communities because they have openly lgbtq+ people in them, followed by me discovering my political beliefs, and more importantly my sexuality (asexual/biromantic), was the beginning of the end for my religiosity. That was about 3 years ago now. I'm back in those communities, this time better at hiding it, but now I'm a fully blown atheist and I'm actively scared they'll disown me (despite being 20 I still live with them) so I have to go through the motions until I'm able to get out, and I hate it.
I'm so sorry about that. I'm queer in a religious household too, just stay strong you'll get out soon enough! Sending love your way dude 💕
I can't imagine thrusting a child into a brick wall no matter what was said. That's simply crazy.
"Under normal circumstances, good people tend to do good things while bad people tend to do bad things. However, to get good people to do bad things you need religion."
@@zenkim6709ehhh I’d say anyone who slams a kid into a wall is not and won’t ever be a good person
How dare you disrespect the king of T-posing‽
He was asserting His divine dominance over all of you simps and Soy Boi nonbelievers. Repent!!!
It's more like Y-posing but I can see your point there.
Ben C. Hode I feel as though I’ve seen u before
I'm a game developer and I understood that reference. Thank you.
why must you show disrespect
I love your distinction between trust and faith. It's something that I've felt is appropriate for some time, now.
I look at it on a scale:
Knowledge: justified true belief
Trust: based on something
Faith: based on nothing
@@Raven3one
I agree with your scale, but there is a question I must ask.
Is there a situation where faith is good and/or beneficial?
@@morromenos1016
If you have good reasons to believe, then faith isn't needed.
If you don't have good reasons to believe, then you shouldn't believe. Faith is how all those other religious people have picked the wrong religion.
If faith was really a good tool for determining what is true, people would be encouraging you to use faith when buying a used car.
With a generous application of faith you can believe absolutely anything.
"Is there a situation where faith is good and/or beneficial?"
No! Not if you care that the things you believe are true.
@@dimbulb23
Thank you for your answer. I must admit that I respectfully disagree, but I also must admit that you have a valid point.
If you would like to discuss further, I would be willing to, but I am only willing to pursue this further if you are. If you are willing, as it could prove educational. my premise is only that there is a place where faith is beneficial and/or good. I am not defending theism or religion, nor is it a part of my premise. Are you willing to debate?
@@morromenos1016 I'm willing to exchange ideas, Fire away.
7 years late but I remember stumbling across your videos as a Christian and just dismissed it.
Now I had undergone my own deconstruction this year and came out to my parents as agnostic. My dad was so dismissive of what I was going through, and I remember telling a friend about it and she told me how narcissistic my dad's behavior was.
When you related your experience coming out I also thought back to when I came out and realized the similarity in our experiences, even if mine was to a much lesser degree.
I'm sorry you had to go through something like that for so long.
I honestly didn't realize that the system of faith could be used to protect a lying environment until you said it.
Thank you.
It is quite reasonable to believe in God. There are many, many good arguments, but let's just start with the basics because really nothing else is necessary. Here are some simple arguments that cannot be disputed, laid out:
Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit (e.g. God), intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.
Thus, either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. But Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
But, you say, maybe the stars are still burning just because they haven’t been in existence long enough to burn out yet. You are thinking in terms of time. And, by definition, you are referencing a beginning point. But if everything always existed, there would be no beginning. So, stars would have all burned out. Period.
Again, this leaves only the possibility for an Being to have always existed.
As to matter, and time and space - the Universe as we know it - we know if is NOT eternal. According to the Big Bang Theory, it began to exist around 13.6 billion years ago. And for something to begin to exist, it must have a cause. And since the universe can't cause itself, its cause must be beyond the space-time universe. It must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and unimaginably powerful. Much like God.
So far we have established that something must have always existed and it can’t be matter and therefore must be non-matter or spirit. And we know that matter, space and time began to exist and that something caused it to exist that must be outside of space, time and matter. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to believe that God does exist.
@@jkyles1000 I mean... I am agnostic. But I would say I am agnostic from wishful thinking.
I would like to think a god or beings higher than us exist, but I don't have proof for such reasoning.
Plus we don't know everything about our universe. To claim that everything that we don't know should therefore come from God would be ignorant.
If he does exist, I wouldn't attribute him to the Christian God however. Especially since there are many historical or archeological errors in Genesis alone.
ua-cam.com/video/cpC8WtufJbo/v-deo.html 4:57 nearly word for word
@@shadowstriker6484 yep, GMS makes good content and he put it in better words than I ever can
Just wanted to say congrats on coming out as agnostic, and no matter what people tell you that doesn't make you a bad person at all! I left about 3 years ago, and my parents just shook it off and have basically ignored me in more ways since. But my goodness it gets easier the longer you've been out of it. I have become such a more joyous, loving, and more anxiety-free person since leaving more so every day (which is funny, because isn't that what they promised God would bring? Oh the irony of Christianity!). Cheers though, and I hope the best for you in life free from the clutches of the religious beast!
i was born into a very christian family. as far as i know, i am the only one who isn’t.
i am still playing along for my safety.
when i was a kid, i suffered through verbal, emotional, and physical abuse. this abuse led to the development of PDD and other disorders. looking back, i asked myself: if god was real, why did he not help me? was i not good enough? if this god is supposed to care about me, it never showed it.
i left the faith because of that.
one thought/question has always come back to torment me: “what if i’m wrong? i don’t want to go to hell.” i now realize after watching this video that the reason i’m so scared that i’m wrong is that i still subconsciously believe hell exists.
i just want to thank you for helping me realize that and sharing your experience. it has definitely helped me feel less lonely and i am sure it has helped others.
The concept of “hell” made me think long and hard about Christianity. I’d rather burn in “hell” than to be intimidated into believing this unjust “god”
God is not unjust. The Bible writes almost all the time how fair and just he is with judging. And hell is not a good place. The feelings you feel now of happiness, joy, positivity. That's all from God. Hell is being away from God. In hell you will barely remember what joy feels like. Believe me on this, God doesn't want you to this place meant for Satan and His demons.
Hell is fun as long as you have a chainsaw and double barrel shotgun, if i ever die would you do me the honor to slaughter demons with me?
@@aliscafrancois3185 thats like the average living standards for kids nowadays anyways. Just an average monday.
@@aliscafrancois3185 *sigh* someone didnt watch the video huh
Alisca Francois if god truly cares for us then why does he let us go to hell or why doesn't he destroy hell all together? If he cant do that then it means that he's not all powerful and if he can but chooses not to then he doesn't care about us
- How does this work?
- DON'T QUESTION GOD!
Fuck oppression, all my homies hate oppression.
When you look at something like a tree or an animal, DNA, laws of physics, how can you possibly deny that Santa created them?
@@barnacleboi2595 How can anyone eat pasta and not realize the divine magnificence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's form?
@@FieryMeltman Ramen, brother.
Wrong. Bible teaches us to question everything.
“Test everything and hold on to what is good.” 1 Thessalonians - Chapter 5, 21
Reminds me a lot of my experiences leaving Christianity.
The thing that makes me the most upset about it is the recognition of just how abusive it was. How even adults that should've known better would abuse me because I didn't act exactly the same way as everyone else, and would not even so much as tell me what I supposedly did wrong. Later I would learn this was largely a consequence of me having autism and ADHD. I was forced to deny intrinsic parts of myself, we were taught going to Heaven would be impossible unless we married, the spouse was of the opposite sex, etc., and we were told that we were on "thin ice" if we didn't go on a large number of dates during highschool and such. I assumed when I was very little that I would understand feelings of romantic love and such when I was old enough, but even in highschool I didn't understand any of it, let alone having the kind of sexual feelings we were also supposed to have toward the "opposite sex". Later I would learn this is what it means to be "aroace". I was told that I had to be "more masculine" and that I was being selfish unless I followed a masculine set of ideals and social rules that I couldn't really even wrap my head around, let alone understand the reasoning for. I was supposed to have some attachment to "being a boy", but I never felt any kind of attachment of that kind at all. Later, I would learn that I was agender. I grew up a very emotional kid, but because that wasn't considered very "masculine", rather than just teaching me to deal with my emotions, I was punished for expressing them at all, the abuse I suffered from peers would be ignored and sometimes even supported by adults, and teaching me that I was wrong for ever feeling things in the first place left me unable to feel emotions the same way a "normal" person would, something that I would later find out is called alexithymia.
I didn't have the language for any of it, I couldn't communicate what was wrong and I couldn't fully understand what was wrong myself, but I was made to believe that such a thing must be my fault. So I blamed myself for a long time, being miserable without really knowing why or what I could do to get out of it.
It makes me upset that I didn't realize the abuse sooner, or that it didn't happen at all so I didn't have to waste so much time not knowing who I was or seeking dead ends or having to spend to relearning things now as an adult now that my time is more limited that most people had learned by the time they were in highschool. I don't think I really know what it means to "hate" anything, but I'm still pretty upset about this. Even though there are a lot of ex-theists here with very different experiences, it seems like I'm very much not along in feeling like the religion I grew up under stole away a significant chunk of my life.
"What a waste."
This is the video that introduced me to your channel several years ago. I've been subscribed since. That line had a powerful impact on me then, and it still sticks with me now.
Despite not being raised in a religious household, I still find these videos immensely engaging. Keep up the good work, we need more people who can talk about religious and psychological abuse in such a calm, clear, and concise way.
"A book of higgledy-piggledy myths"... oh, that's a gem.
I have seen higgledy-piggledy in my Webserter's dictionary long ago. It is defined as "in confusion" and the earlier meaning was a group of pigs, flocked together.
He meant The Origin of Species and Atheism.
I had almost the same experience. The only difference is nobody knows I'm an atheist. I never told my family I just went along with it till I turned 18 and moved out. Oddly what started mine was when my mom told my brother "if I ever find out your gay I'll disown you" I didn't find out I was bi till later, but the level of hate I heard in her voice was enough to make me wonder.
Tony Tran why do you have to call her a bitch? Anyway, from my personal experience, there was very little sexual experience involved in my finding out that I’m gay. As a child, I had crushes like any other kid. Elementary school teachers, other girls, characters on TV, et cetera. The only difference was, I had no idea that I was experiencing a crush because there was no concept of homosexuality in my mind. I came up with reasons for these feelings, mostly admiration. I’d also never taken an interest in boys. It wasn’t until I discovered the concept of homosexuality that I was able to recognize my natural and innocent experiences as early signs of my sexuality. Even though this is a personal anecdote, it’s what pushed me further into researching the sociological, biological and psychological basis for homosexuality in not only humans, but other species as well. Also: please don’t equate transvestism to homosexuality. “Lady boys” may be gay, but autogynephilia plays a big part in men presenting as female.
As a questioning Christian, I ask a lot of these questions. It has given many weird and vague answers though. But I'm in a safeish environment for these, so I'm going to keep shifting through answers.
Keep up the good work. Always question yourself and the world around you.
It’s interesting to see parallels of my life in people like this UA-camr our upbringings were almost identical yet he left christianity and i remained and still do as an adult. I wish we could have a more civil conversation in inter religious convos most of the time it devolves into a name calling match
@@Commandosoap777 Yeah fr
Amen! I'm Christian, but I welcome hard ball videos like these. These videos make my faith stronger as I compare my thoughts with his. I find that some of the ideas he mentions like Hell, or predestination, are topics I have found answers for. The church has a serious issue, and I find that a lot of ideas get perverted or Christians regurgitate false ideas of the Bible without looking into it. There needs to be more discussion and more apologists!
I have been abused as a child. Severely. And it's left me with a sort of bullshit detector. It's not magic or anything, just a survival mechanism. You know come home from school and you have to be able to read the house to see how you are going to have to behave in order to not get beaten bloody. Anyway, I liked Christianity because there was a savior and hope and forgiveness. It was easier to believe. Anyway, thinking about it always gave me that feeling in the pit of my stomach that something was Severely wrong. It's not something I could articulate as well as you did but that feeling in my stomach has saved me more times than I can count. Even the degree to which it unsettles me is extremely high. Like I have been in bad neighborhoods, in the dark alley and been surrounded by gangsters who were checking to see if I was from a rival gang did not unsettle me as much as religion does. If there's a God, I don't think he'd have anything to do with religion. Which is a weird statement but it makes more sense than religion.
That abuse sh*t krazy...
gods,Christianity,religion all bs.
This whole cosmos insane!
Wow! Excellent! Thank you! I'm a 73 year old atheist who never did believe and I sure had to be silent a lot of times. I'm a retired military pilot with over 1,500 combat flying hours and I never depended on an "invisible friend" to assist some very close calls. There really are atheists in foxholes and in cockpits. Many claim there are not. My parents never mentioned religion except to say there were lots of theories with no proof and for us to explore and make up our own minds. My Dad (a doctor and surgeon) said "Nobody knows for sure but if we get to vote on it the Chinese are going to win." That was my religious upbringing. Thanks for your excellent video! Carry on!!!
+Joseph Stokes That 'no atheists in foxholes' line is such bullshit isn't it. Remarked on it in another video once: 'It's simply not true that there are no atheists in foxholes. But those who regurgitate this thought-terminating cliché unwittingly concede a remarkable own goal. Even if the odd atheist did find divine ideas frothing up in their mind in their last moments, are those desperate, irrational, psychological defences, mobilised by a fear of imminent death, actually being defined as 'theism'? Let's boil down what's being proposed here: an atheist clutching at straws out of fear is a theist. What an extraordinarily revealing commentary on the nature of faith.'
Bravo! Well stated! Thanks again.
You missed the point I am afraid. It's not in what you believe, the magic dust is BELIEVING itself. In your case you believed in yourself.
There have been countless examples where people in hopeless situations, where they were stranded and starving, would resort to eating the corpses of fellow humans. I guess according to the “no atheists in foxholes”-types, this would imply everyone is a cannibal.
I'm going to use that "if we have to vote on it the chinese will win" line. Can't wait for my daughter to get older. Thanks for that.
oh boy, as a kid i really liked the story of noah's ark for some reason. but now that im older i realised how horrific it really was.
Well yes. I wondered about the poop.
Genocide is only wrong when you are not God, because God can do no wrong. Hard to accept, but not without reason.
@@amberslahlize7961 Precisely so, because god defines what is right and what is wrong. You too can define these words any way you like.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Well what's the issue with God defining right and wrong? Why are you assuming that just because God can, so can you?
Morality isn't subjective, neither is God, they are both objective. While on the other hand, you and me are, we are subjective by nature.
Morality will undoubtedly exist long after we are gone, we can safely assume morality was here before we got here.
So no, the same rules do not apply to us as they do with God. Simply put.
Our sense of morality might be right, but that doesn't mean it can't be wrong. Whatever God does is the only way to know what right and wrong is.
So, genocide is only right when God does it (or commands it), but not when we do it (unless we are obeying that commandment). Once again, hard to accept, but only without reason.
@@amberslahlize7961 "Well what's the issue with God defining right and wrong?"
You might get an answer from someone that has an issue with god defining right and wrong.
"Why are you assuming that just because God can, so can you?"
Actually, it is the other way round. Because I can, so can God (or you, or anyone else).
"Morality isn't subjective"
Yes, actually it is exactly and only subjective. It is whatever you think it is, for you; and it is whatever I think it is, for me; and it is whatever any god thinks it is, for that god. It is reasonable to adopt the sense of morality as defined by the god that most likely actually exists; that will be the morality that *matters*.
"Morality will undoubtedly exist long after we are gone"
That is an interesting point of view and runs along the Nominalist view of things; that there need not be an actual "chair" anywhere in the universe for "chair" to still be defined.
"Whatever God does is the only way to know what right and wrong is."
Perhaps. So, what did God do TODAY? And assuming you know the answer, how shall you convince me that you know the answer and that it is true, accurate and complete? I doubt such a thing is possible.
"So, genocide is only right when God does it (or commands it), but not when we do it"
A circularity exists in your reasoning. A better argument is that God can uncreate whatever he created by the same magical means he created. In other words, I have a doubt it is ever "right" for humans to uncreate what God created. If he wants to uncreate some humans he can certainly do so and there would be no preventing it.
No claim is reasonably made that genocide is ever "right" even if by command of God. It might be *excused* or justified or expedient; but that does not make a wrong thing right. Policemen and military persons must sometimes kill; seemingly in violation of "thou shalt not kill", but it is expedient that some persons trained in the procedure and with knowledge of laws and rules of engagement do a thing that untrained and uncommissioned persons have no right or duty to perform.
This hit way too close to home for me. It gives me hope that I'm not alone in my experiences.
Holy fuck! How did you put this into words so well??
He really is very good isn't he.
@jazzyj2182 ... ah, another online Crusader for Christ playing the Biblical Quote Game? OK, I'll play along.
Luke 12:10
Every one who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but any one who speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Mark 3:29
Whosoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.
U might want to sit down & think about those passages for a while ... think long & hard.
I was raised without religion at home and never had to battle it. But your story and the way you narrated it deeply touched me. Thank you
I honestly don't think you would believe mine. I seriously considered writing a book. Only with a comical spin. I told my fellow manic depressive friend that I thought I was Jesus Christ and I was locked up into a mental institution. Her reply? "Yea, I thought I was Jesus Christ while locked up and the scary part was that they actually believed me." In no way would I ever diminish the HORROR of having that mental illness. The countless attempts of suicide. That's why I never wrote it. Out of respect for people that have what I have. It is a death sentence. Suicide rates have gone way up, especially with young people. Be responsible, if you know of anyone who might be suffering with this, encourage them to see a counselor, but don't let them sign away their rights. The police could show up on your doorstep kicking and screaming because a "therapist" thought they we're God and decided to have you unknowingly sign your rights away.
That whole thing started with there fear tactics of hell. It screwed me up for life.
I also was raised without religion. Well, that's not entirely true. My father appointed himself god and didn't allow any others. There is always a god; someone to tell you what to do and what not to do; someone you admire and choose to follow, entire or just the parts you admire.
Jesus cried for the sake of the people who were emotional over Lazarus' death. He had empathy for them. But ultimately he wants us to know that we do not need to weep over lost loved ones like those who reject Him and have no greater hope. Because we will see them again, we can gain the right perspective to deal with these things. Sure you can explain it away as wishful thinking, or the imagination of someone who doesn't want to miss their loved ones... Or you can learn to understand God is real, and these things are true. It really is a choice, whichever way you decide to go.
No one goes to heaven when they die, they are asleep until Jesus returns to raise the dead and they and those who are still alive will be gathered together.
Also, there is not only heaven, but the New Earth that we will live on. But basically the heavenly realm/dimension will be together with the New Earth.
Do I know every mystery of how that will actually occur? No, but I know enough about God's word being true throughout history and within my own life after turning to Him, to know his future promises are true as well.
I hope you will learn more about spiritual things before deciding God isn't real and convince yourself there is no purpose to the temporary suffering we experience right now.
My dad took me to Sunday school when I was a kid. I don't know whether his heart was ever in it, but I just tagged along because it was polite. I never really got into it the same way some kids did. I always just saw the Bible as stories. Even back then, I had this weird semi-belief that sure, Jesus may have existed insofar that he could've been a real influential thinker of his day, but the idea of a god seemed kind of a stretch. I never really put it together just how much people actually believed this stuff. There's a kind of irony that Jesus was also said to question the world, and got punished for it.
I had a recent exchange with a gentleman who absolutely insisted the world will end this September. He also insisted that what he knew was the Unquestionable Truth and was mystified when I asked him how he knew it was the Unquestionable Truth if he couldn't ask any questions. Anyone who claims to have the Truth and are ecstatic that the world will soon come to an end are a danger to our world.
Deep Ashtray "hey, put that in writeing on this sheet of paper and sign it, I want to see your face when I present this to you after september, remember to state that you are absolutely sure and if it turns out you are wrong I have permission to state that you were a moron"
doombybbr
Let me get this straight. You want me to put in writing that the world will not come to an end in September, and when it does come to an end you're going state that I am a moron? Sure...go for it, big guy.
Deep Ashtray
that is what I would say to THEM
doombybbr
In the comment exchange I mention, yup that's what I tried to get across. Sorry, thought it was worded toward me :)
Deep Ashtray
no way, why would it be worded towards you? I wouldn't be able to collect if it were the case.
It is extraordinary that your were going through all of this while dealing with your abusive mother.
It's funny. At the time, as that young boy, I'd often kick myself for handling those situations so clumsily. It's only with hindsight that you appreciate the size of the rocks you were pushing up a hill.
“I could do a better job than Yahweh.” When you try to tell a religious person this, they’ll tell you that you can’t understand the brilliance of God. I’m not sure how to meaningfully respond to that. They consider their beliefs infallible, if somethings wrong, it’s your fault or my fault but it can’t possibly be the religion’s fault.
Maybe I can help you to respond against the religious people if they'll say this word
My favorite response to this is to ask what couldn't be justified by the supposed incomprehensible brilliance of god. Murder? Torture? Rape? Genocide? Worship of another god entirely? If God's logic is truly incomprehensible, then it is an explanation for nothing at all.