PEEK vs CFPEEK: Which is Better and Why? 3D Printing The World's Strongest Thermoplastics
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- PEEK or CFPEEK? www.visionmine...
Short Answer: CFPEEK, if your application allows the carbon fiber infill.
Why? It's SO MUCH EASIER. The carbon fiber composite keeps the extremely-warpy polymer stable at 400ºC -- meaning you don't have parts tearing themselves up from the buildplate on your 3D printer. At least, not as much.
The surface quality is phenomenal, and layer adhesion can be better than regular PEEK -- however, it may not meet the certifications needed for some aerospace and medical applications.
PEEK has an impressive portfolio of certs -- from it's UL94-V0 FST rating, to biocompatibility and food-safe properties, to wear resistance comparable to titanium. It's 5x lighter than steel, and the same strength by volume. That's crazy strong!
However, PEEK is insanely difficult to print, with terrible bridging, massive warping, and many other challenge on larger parts.
With Carbon Fiber added, many of these challenges disappear entirely, and the process of printing CFPEEK and holding your final parts is amazing -- perfect surface finish, great dimensional accuracy, high temperature resistance, crazy chemical resistance, and of course -- strength. Lots of strength.
At Vision Miner, we specialize in Functional 3D printing, especially high-performance plastics like PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU, PPS, CFPA, and more.
If you're interested in using functional 3D printing and materials in your business, feel free to reach out, and we can help you make the right choice for your application.
Call 833-774-6863 or email contact@visionminer.com, and we're here to help! At Vision Miner, we specialize in Functional 3D printing, especially high-performance plastics like PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU, PPS, CFPA, and more. We also have extensive experience with 3D scanners, and a whole array of solutions available for purchase. If you're interested in using functional 3D printing and materials in your business, feel free to reach out, and we can help you make the right choice for your application.
Call 833-774-6863 or email contact@visionminer.com, and we're here to help!
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I get happy everytime you upload a video about special 3d printing material. It's super interesting and i always want to learn more. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences!
Hahaha thank you so much!
Man... That sounds amazing. Was searching about PEEK but now will look for CFPEEK.
I so wish I could print these materials, my Ender doesn't cut it. I must say the chopped carbon fiber makes your prints really pretty, like CF PLA, the only problem I had with CF PLA, is it is so brittle, breaks very easy.
CFPLA often uses milled carbon, as well, which actually weakens it, compared to chopped carbon
If you upgrade to a all metal hot end you can definitely get not these but higher strength cf materials like PETG, nylon or even PC
Comparison of finished filament print strength. I.E. TPU= CARDBOARD? CFPEEK= 6061 T6 aluminum?
A thing I did not hear in your video is that CFPEEK is stiffer but as well a lot more brittle? Just by bending the filament, the CFPEEK is a lot stiffer but breaks quickly. With natural PEEK, you can use it as shoe laces. I am a bit concerned that the CFPEEK is a bit too stiff and handles impacts not so good... Stiff comes at a price.. :) Besides that, love that you make videos. :)
Would have been nice to know about chemical resistant differences. If there is any difference
Not much -- but the addition of the carbon should be noted, as it can break down under things different from PEEK.
Love these comparison videos you guys put out. You made an interesting point about PEEK being better than CFPEEK for Gears - now, some 2+ years on, would that still be your recommendation, or has CFPEEK or some other filament improved to the point you would now recommend it for gears over the regular PEEK?
The main reason we'd recommend PEEK over CFPEEK for applications like gears and gearboxes is that natural PEEK has inherent self lubricating properties whereas CF PEEK introduces carbon fiber into the part making it quite abrasive. There's definitely a few other high temp materials we'd recommend in place of PEEK which you can see in some of our other videos
I can see something like GPEEK being considered which involves something called Flash graphene.
Hi Visioneers. I was wondering what printer you use to print both or all of the examples you shared in the video? Really enjoy your videos and thanks for sharing your knowledge. Cheers!
Mostly the Funmat HT :)
would this make a good watch case
I know hardly anything about 3D printing but I think your guys videos and information is very cool. A question that popped into my mind was, when PEEK is used in military and medical applications, are the parts typically printed or injection molded?
Hey Excellent video. PEEK is used in ultra-high vacuum (UHV) environments. Do you know how CFPEEK would do in vacuum? Also do you think it would be possible to print capillaries with inner diameter 1 mm, outer diameter 1.2 mm with length of 3 cm?
In CFPEEK that would be possible. Getting down that small whilst squeezing plastic through a nozzle is the hard part -- figuring it out :) We do a lot of this work though, and I think it would be possible!
Oi obrigado pelas dicas . Qual matéria prima impressa em 3d é mais resistente a abrasão? Obrigado
Hey guys. Great video! How gimmicky is CFPC? I'm still just a hobbyist so true high temp 3d printing is out of the questions for the short/medium term but I want better mechanical functional parts with higher thermal resistance.
Oh and your nano polymer glues works wonders on every filament I've tried it with!
Not gimmicky at all -- CFPLA sometimes uses milled carbon fiber, which is like powder, and actually makes it weaker. Our filaments used chopped strands -- which actually add to the strength and temperature resistance significantly :) It's super functional!
@@VisionMiner Interesting info. I bougt some e-Sun CF-Nylon the other day and I wonder if it only uses milled CF as they don't specify what type it uses. Do you know if there's Chopped strand CF Nylon available from anywhere? I looked at the 3dxtech page and they specify 'industrial grade CF' in their nylon.
@@tomgrant6563
Do you mean solely the fibers sans the polymer?
Afaik you can get it at the common composite manufacturing supply places that sell fibers, resin and whatnot.
If you meant where you can get proper CF filled filament - if there's not a very significant difference in price I usually don't look any further than 3DXTech. If there are way more affordable options it might be worth taking a closer look, but at the end of the day those significantly lower prices don't come from nothing.
Ime there's often cheap material available from carbon fiber mats/fabric that just simply gets ground to a powder. It's often used as a filler in composite applications and can be great for that, but in a filament I guess it mainly makes it look good. Which would be fine if it wasn't advertised as something else and if it would be cheaper.
I usually just buy 3DX carbon filament. At ~80$/Kg (58$/Spool) for their ASA-CF it's a fair price and I know that I'll get a quality product that delivers exactly as promised.
@@heinzhaupthaar5590 thanks for your reply, yes I meant to say cf-filled filament, not just the cf itself. I do intend to try some 3dxtech or other high end filament soon as the cheaper one I bought is definitely not very tough or stiff. I haven't used it much but I doesn't seem any stronger then plain petg parts. I think I wrote in another comment that it has this weird property I'm still wondering about: If you flex a part in your hand a small number of times, it goes floppy. It's like all the stiffness from the fibre/powder breaks away and the part feels like soft nylon.
what temperature can a peek withstand before it is melting, would it melt when in contact with heater coil? I need one for a heater vessel. thanks in advance, hope I could get an answer
You've got up to a 340c operating temp, but somewhere in the 200c range is no problem at all -- how hot do the heaters get?
Hello, this channel is amazing guys i have been watching you guys and been getting nice info on 3D printing even with 6 plus years into this sector still there is countless stuff to learn.
I am going to be opening a 3D printing farm and been wondering if an HT 3D printer can handle let's say BASF 316L filament or other metal-filled filaments.
Hoping to hear from you soon
Cheers from Athens Greece you guys are wonderful :)
Cheers! For sure, it handles the BASF stuff like a champ -- technically you don't need an HT printer for that, but it does run well in the Funmat HT and other machines we carry :)
@@VisionMiner I would like to ask your opinion on a machine called CreatBot peek 300 Gen v2 have you come across this kind of machine?
Could you recommend it as a machine ?
@@papasgio For sure! Unfortunately we've been hearing horror stories about the electronics, warped beds, melting air filters, melting bed insulation, and more.... frankly, they're great nuts & bolts, but everything we've seen on CreatBots is that you'll want to rebuild it from the ground up if you get it. One of the guys here actually has a 430, and it would short out if the chamber went over 50c.... we recommend steering clear
You just saved me from a lot of trouble and money. Was about to buy it and make a row of those for production..... I can't thank you enough.
What would you recommend as a printer that can print all High Performance materials based on your experience and knowledge ?
I'm assuming you can print a mould out of cfpeek for composite parts to be made under vacuum at 120 degrees!! And will it release ok using easylease release agent .
Absolutely! You can even do that with the new 25% carbon high-temp nylon: visionminer.com/products/htn-cf25
carbon fibre is electrically conductive which can be problematic ?
Yes, if you need insulative properties, you'll want to avoid carbon fiber
I'm struggling to get some decent bed Adhesion with this material. Now I'm not using anything fancier than a PVP glue stick on a glass bed. So what do you recommend as a glue when printing with CFPEEK?? Running a Intamsys Pro 410
Oh man, we designed Nano Polymer Adhesive specifically for this. visionminer.com/adhesive --- it will change your life!
@@VisionMiner Thank you. Any resellers in Ireland/Europe??
Wanted to see how the anealing works with the CF-PEEK?
Essentially the same as any other material, not much different! Just a bit hotter and longer...
@@VisionMiner How is it for dimensional stability when annealed? In terms of %.
Is it the same for PEI Ultem 1010, that carbon fibers make printing easier and prevent warping?
Generally, yes!
what percentage of carbon fiber is in the peek?
Roughly 10-13%
Is there %30 short carbon fibers peek filament ?
Would this be a suitable material for an axle for a truck? Random question I know
Depends on the part, but yes
Can you print stuff that will go in outer space? Is it thermally stable and resistant do vacuum and radiations? Does it resist well to moon regolith?
How much percentage of carbon fiber is used in Carbon fiber PEEK composite?
Typical 10%
Yep, generally 10-13%
Thanks team!..
What about GF reinforced PEEK? Similar properties like CF reinforced PEEK?
Similar properties, a bit different, useable in some other situations, and also very very awesome :)
Even S-3 glass has a lower modulus of elasticity and higher density than carbon. At least in the case of epoxy matrix, glass has a lower IFSS (bond strength). The primary reason to use glass instead of carbon would be to prevent galvanic corrosion when in direct contact with metal. Other applications might require lower thermal and electrical conductivity, or the ability to have different colored filaments. The process of adding glass to plastic would also be expensive, so customers generally prefer the higher performing (and sexier) carbon fiber.
Does anyone know if cfpeek has flexibility or is it more rigid
It's extremely rigid :)
What are the actual material properties of the two materials?
You can find all the data sheets here: visionminer.com/pages/mds
😀
Resin printers are blowing up these days, think there will be a resin version of these?
Hi Guys , is there a medical Carbon Fiber PEEK ?
Excellent
This is exciting. Thank you. #carbonfibrepeek
Have found Carbon Fibre Nylon so brittle that its breaks feeding off the roll - the actual filament sounds like a steel wire under extreme tension - it rings - normal?
what's your drying method?
I still want to see more testing of these parts and less talking about them to be honest. I understand that its really nice looking etc but how does it compare to the carbonX as you mentioned ....?
Getting our hands on tensile testing machines soon..... :)
Is it possible to print solid PEEK so that there is no air pockets within the printed part? Then maybe 3d printed PEEK could be used for high power electrical insulation, say 100 000 V ⚡⚡⚡
Up to a certain size/geometry, yes :)
Who else is thinking CF-PEEK guitar picks?
*raises hand*
Wish I had the funds to do something stupid, like print nerf blasters out of CF-PEEK :P
I just so wish it wasn't 600 dollars for 1 kg of plastic 😢
Bro I want talk to u about a big project
Hit us up! contact@visionminer.com
The carbon fiber seems like a gimmick as it isn't a continuous fiber like actual carbon fiber, rather it has chunks of small carbon tubes for the medium. seems to be a bit of a sham.
That's only because you've never compared a CF filament with it's regular counterpart -- holding parts in your hand, it's as obvious as night and day.
The continuous carbon fiber is definitely very stiff, and our materials get very close to matching it -- we have samples from Markforged we use as baselines, and they all get verrrrry close to the same rigidity. Most of our regular high-temp materials beat their continuous fiberglass (we made identical samples) -- you'd be surprised how effective it really is!
It generally has less elongation at break, but far more tensile and flexural strength -- unfilled PA6 (nylon) has a UTS of about 74MPa, wheras 30% carbon fill is at 210MPa -- almost 3 times as strong.
Most carbon filaments, however, only have 10-15% carbon fill, as the filament becomes too brittle to spool. However, we're still looking at 2x the strength in most cases -- however, each test is slightly different, and in the Elastic (Young's, Tensile) Modulus the 30% CF is almost 8x stronger.
You can find all these numbers on makeitfrom.com and various other sources to verify. It's amazing stuff!
Now, keep in mind, low-end plastics like PLA/ABS often have "milled" carbon fiber, which is powder, and this actually makes it weaker. Chopped carbon fibers, however, add a SIGNIFICANT amount of rigidity, strength, and they also raise the operating temperatures a lot. Make sure you get your engineering filament from a reputable source.
This is very well known in the plastics world, with many injection-molded products using the exact same thing -- chopped carbon fibers mixed with the polymers. It's amazing stuff :)
Also I ordered $360 worth of material from MatterHackers nylon X and it’s trash
ouch!😬
Yup
These guys talking about this stuff like anyone can actually afford it lol
Most of our customers are businesses, so yeah, most people won't be buying this stuff for their weekend projects :) We do have some cool stuff for that, though, like PSU or Ultem 9085, even our cf-nylon blends are super strong but much more affordable :)
Yes and the cost of 100gr of peek are 20000000 dollars!! ahaahaha