can't put my finger on it but you guys are really interesting to watch and i love the personalities you bring, I'm not even a hobby printer but i find this stuff really interesting to learn about, you guys earned a sub :)
+1 for putting TPU in the spotlight. I have taken a real liking to armadillo TPU. The most rigid TPU out there at the moment I think, really fairly rigid. But insane layer adhesion, zero warp, and quite high yield... for any application not explicitly optimized for stiffness, I think it will basically be my go-to material. The product of indestructibility and printability is really off the charts.
This was an outstanding review. I was an industrial chemist and this is an excellent summary without getting into the causal elements which, for most, is boring. Well done guys. Keep it coming I subed.
Awesome breakdown guys, thank you! I'm at the stage where I'm comfortable printing most of the 'engineering' materials (CF-PA, PC, ASA, TPU, PP, etc). And I recently upgraded my HotEnd and tested it up to 450C, and I even got some Ultem1010 and CF-PEEK, but I still don't dare to try it, without heated chamber and proper oven for annealing. However I just wanted to say that your videos are highly appreciated and a rare insight in high-end thermoplastics!
Thanks man! The annealing phase isn't as important as it seems, for general-use parts. If you want to do small parts, or parts that are close to the bed, you should be able to get away with some stuff :)
@@VisionMiner I have successfully printed (and annealed) both Ultem9085 and CF-PEEK today! Printing (on CR-10 ;): Ultem9085 @ 350C / 170C CF-PEEK @ 400C / 150C Annealing: Ultem9085: 1h@120C -> 1h@150C -> 30m@120C CF-PEEK: 1h@150C -> 1h@200C -> 30m@150C Object was small (mini-tongs, 10g, 100mm long, 12mm high) and I used PEI with your Nano Polymer Adhesive so I had no problem with warping at all. Still I'm so proud and happy! :D Thanks a lot for encouragement!
Holy sh*t, this is what i'm looking for!!. (has spend 3 hours searching & watching filament videos.) guys your the best . gladly Subscribed 15:18 need more of this :D
Love your videos guys i work at 3D printing Canada im there TPU and TPE expert , but now i have moved up to PC Nylon 910 Nylon cf PCTPE, and now putting a mosquito hot end on my Troodon. im running a v6 e3d all metal hot end now but want to start printing PEI ext, also hoping my boss will bring in one of them Aon3D M2 printers so we can do better stuff in house. Because of your videos i have had great success with all my new materials. i also love that u can dye nylon, iv been so lucky not one warped part yet
I can not believe that I just found you. Instascribed! Can you guys do a comparison videos for each top tier materials? I would love to see say CF Nylons compared to each other and ranked and the same with all the other top tier materials. After finding your channel, this is going to be a huge time sink, Thanks.
Great video as always! There are so few resources out there for high temp filaments so thanks for sharing your expertise. You forgot my new favorite material - PSU.
Holy! Not only a very high quality video, but so much discussion and answering in the comments. Thanks for your dedication! So what is the opinion on HIPS, which I've seen very cheap for properties somewhere in between asa and abs. Also one of the recycling filaments just like PP.
Good news: it's probably not you. It's your settings :) and the polymer is insane, so go hotter, thinner walls, and less dense areas, you'll have better luck generally.
i printed with almost all those materials and eventually realized that for prototyping and test its best to use pla . almost all high temp filaments absorb moisture like crazy . specially ultem , nylon and pc . so when planning to print anything you need to remember to put the filament in the oven to remove moisture for several hours . pla also absorbs moisture , but it prints at low temp , so the impact on print quality is minimal . if you try to print moist ultem @ almost 400c your hot end will steam like crazy . those materials are not yet optimized for 3d printing . i 'm tired of waiting for the filament in the oven each time i need to print something . so for prototyping i'm using pla . bed adhesion is also an issue . vision miners adhesive is very good , but the problem is the part wont release when cooled down . i broke several glass surfaces and very expensive ceramic glass just by trying to remove the damn parts . "glue" is not a solution , we need adhesives that will release when temp gets lower , not just glue the parts to the bed like crazy . lots of works still needs to be done .
It's best to not use glass with their adhesive or high temp in general, use a carbon fiber plate, then you can let it cool down and pop off. Otherwise you must generally remove the print while it's still hot or it will take pieces of glass with it.
Very true. That's why we made the carbon plates -- we kept breaking expensive glass! visionminer.com/carbon -- changes the whole game :) As for drying, that's another thing, for sure -- we've gotten our system down pretty good now. In regards to prototypes, yes -- PLA just works, almost every time, so whenever we're doing a part and want to see what we're going up against -- an easy print in PLA is a good option before using the high-temp materials. Cheers!
sss: Try PVDF. Its almost as good as Ultem but has ZERO moisture absorbing. addnorth.com/en/product/Adamant%20S1?sku=ANPV14WHI (im not working for addnorth or sponsed by them)
Rob and Cole - thanks, great review. Your style is inimitable, great how you bounce off each other - love it. Keep up the great work. Excellent information. Appreciated.
Thank you for doing this. I am fairly new to 3d printing, and after tuning/tweaking/learning, I am at the point where the differences between brands/materials themselves are the next major hurdle to the quality of my results.
If I was to choose a material to make a component that will not adhere to polyester resin or epoxy resin, what would you recommend? Also is it fair to say that CF mix will lower warping? Great video 👍
People building Voron 3D printers would like to have a word with you about how practical ABS is. Classing ABS/PLA/PETG as C seems weird, and "Skip ABS because noone wants to use it anymore"... I'm not sure what to tell you.
Not to say it isn't a great material, in and of itself -- but frankly, the warping can be tough on open machine printers for larger parts (rendering them often near impossible), the fumes are extremely toxic, and ASA is generally a far superior material to work with for the same price. Remember, this is graded between many filaments for 3D Printing, not the material properties themselves. ABS is awesome! just.... there are better options for FDM.
I printed some parts from 3Dxtech in both CF-nylon and GF-nylon. However after about 1 year, they became soft. When it was new it was stiff as hell and I got a super geek-hardon. but yeah, over time it became softer and I Could actually bend it (not break it). And some of the jiggs I had started to form a new shape in the direction they were made to take up force. HAve you any experience with this? Alternatives? CF-PETG? idk..
Yes, this does happen over time. PPA, or high-temp nylon, especially the blend from Essentium HTNCF25 has much better performance over time, takes on less moisture.
yeah as stated before, sounds like moisture. The mechanical props of nylon vary crazily with the amount of water in them. Ive recently been doing some prints with GF-PP; not quite a stiff as CF-PA; but it could not care less about moisture, and it has that same really nice and indestructable feel to it. As pointed out in the video and from what I can tell from reading the literature its really one of the most fatigue resistant materials out there. Thats a big part of everyday mechanical performance, and a story really swept under the rug by focussing on modulus and UTS as measured by a single loading in a test jig, a mistake ive often made in the past as well. On the lower end of the stiffness range without fibers, and on the higher end with. With different grades of fiber fill, youve got a whole range of very useful materials to choose from. Great comparison in this vid overall; but I do think its a bit unfair only PA gets put in the CF spotlight. GF-PP and CF-ABS-PC are close enough to PA in terms of modulus and UTS, but have many properties that might make them pull ahead (printability, moisture, glueability, and so on).
@@VisionMiner I agree with @Eelco Hoogendoorn with regards to GF-PP, I have printed some quite large parts out of the x-strand PP-GF30 on an ender 3 with all-metal hot-end, hardened nozzle and magigoo adhesive on a glass bed. It doesn't require a very expensive or complicated machine to print, the filament doesn't need to be dried and the warping is a lot better than unfilled PP. It's also quite stiff and has excellent inter-layer adhesion making it a lot stronger than neat PP (and importantly in my case has excellent chemical resistance). I just wish it was more available and not so expensive. I feel like it gets overlooked for CF-PA but is probably as good or even better in a lot of applications.
Great video guys. Toward the end of this video, you seem to indicate that Lexan and acrylic are the same thing. I don’t think they are. Lexan is polycarbonate. Acrylic has a long chemical name. A brand name for acrylic Lucite.
pla is the best filament, I always need it for a "good for printing" before I use expensive material. My customers love that. How often have they had a second chance to change something. 🤓
I'd really like to see a list of materials with associated thermal conductivity ratings, to help make good decisions for support structures and enclosures that need heatsinks. (E.g motor controller mounting etc)
When you guys talk about CF nylon is it nylon 12 or nylon 6? And how does CF ABS compare? I haven't seen CF ASA so is CF ABS better than standard ASA? if I don't have a dual extruder I know Nylon doesn't work well for supports so is CF ABS the strongest choice? A video on those materials would be great! thank you!
In our older videos, it was all PA6. Now, we have 6, 12, PPA/HTN, and others. New videos on the way! For CF, it all depends on the strands of CF being used. If it's milled, it's no good. Chopped, better, but then grade comes into play. visionminer.com/blogs/articles/carbon-fiber-3d-printing Nylon works great as it's own support material, no problems there on a single extruder!
@@VisionMiner thanks guys! I started printing pctg based on your recommendation and I’m loving it! It warped so I had to throw together a quick enclosure but once I did it printed amazing , looks like injection mounding. I’m excited to try cf nylon but need to upgrade my hot end to all metal. Thanks for your feed back! Love the videos!
Wow, it's almost unbelievable that such an useful video like this can exist considering how hard finding unbiased filament material comparisons in the wild is, great job guys.
Thank you! While we do sell filaments -- it's alllll about getting the right stuff for the job, whoever you are, whatever you're doing :) Appreciate the comment! :)
The funny thing is, I am using 3DJake Eco PLA ( it's a PLA+ ) and it has the highest tensile strength of almost all filaments I can find. I print parts out of it that are nearly indestructible. Everyone claims that other filaments - excluding PEEK, PEKK, ... - are stronger, but disregarding high temp and/or impact applications, this PLA is unbreakable. I do love the look of PA-CF, but for - most of - my applications, that would be putting form over function.
*PCTG ANNEALING* Would you happen to have any info on that? I'll take anything you've got. I haven't found much apart from one video by Essentium wherein they loosely describe the annealing process. Maybe it's as easy as their video makes it sound but in my experience that is _not_ likely to be the case. I flipped through their white papers and didn't see anything on PCTG annealing but I might have missed it. Thanks guys!
Generally you gradually heat it up to the TG (glass transition point), in this case 76c, and let it sit for a few hours, then let it gradually cool back down. Annealing in a nutshell.... sometimes those up/down scales can take 1-3 days, for super high temp materials, for PCTG though, it could be done in a work day.
Can some material expert please give multi advice on what to call out for black material to make some VENTS for on my cars front bumper. Rough cut opening for this vent is is 1.25 inch slots by 6 inches for a racing intercooler added knock out venting to add more airlow. The new intercooler is double the size of oem one. The opening in the front bumper is too small , and I need to get direct air to the larger cooler. So I will cut 3 openings in the front bumper cover below and above the OEM styled opening. So 6 vents as to keep some material between the vent to keep the front bumper cover together. I figure 5mm x 5mm "L" vent, 2.5mm thickness. with a 2 mm strut at the 3 inch center mark to hold the vent in shape ( from spreading) I will add silicone to the top of the lower "foot" of the "L" to seal the vent and hold it into the bumper cover. "Example in a larger form" would be a floor furnace vent. 2 inches by 10 inch floor vent on how that fits into the floor. But my "air direction" will be coming from the top of said floor vent example in my added intercooler vents scenario. I hope you can figure out what I am doing. I want some flexibility to follow the front bumper styling changes that is not extreme but is not straight as a floor. ,It will also have to take the suns direct long term heat as it could be in sun all day long term and not melt. At this point I will be using privaters to save cost so something a high end advance user would have in stock. I assume I need to ask for a well heated chamber too? Thanks.
Most ESD materials are designed to prevent a static charge from building up in the first place, only really the silver shielding bags that are intended to protect components from outside sources of ESD.
thanks. I am asking for a suggested material. I am building a first run of 20 2mm wall thick enclosures at 200mmx200mmx45mm consisting of a case and a back that snap together meant for a bookshelf indoor use. Inside is a rigid 191x191 led matrix at the front and some electronics mounted to the back cover. Finish is very important. I have printed a few in PLA to get my design worked out. I am testing for deformation and have seen some evidence. It seems, from your excellent video, that PCTG might be the next one to try. If successful, the cases will be farmed out to injection molding. I am printing on a Qidi X-Max. thanks, RIchie
awesome video, very informative. Although I wish there were more footage of examples for each one. came across this video bc i need a shift knob printed and have to decide on a material. Im thinking nylon or CF PEEK ? are all materials able to be painted with color ? I need a shiny solid look, and will the material come into play on that or will that mostly rely on the paint
Can I ask elaboration on why you said do not use CF-nylon with carbon fiber. As this kombination is key to one of my products? btw, I mamufacture all my automotive designs in ASA, love it.
@@djremotion2 Ah - he was actually referencing the abrasiveness, and putting two carbon-fiber nylon parts together, like gears against each other, because they are abrasive, while regular nylon is self-lubricating. So -- you can definitely use CF-Nylon with carbon fiber, just be aware of it's abrasiveness :)
interesting how the worst plastics for 3d printing are the most popular for laser cutting (Acrylic and delrin are. PTFE isn't laser cut often likely cause of the harmful fluorine in it, but disregarding that I think PTFE's cutting/engraving quality is good) I wonder if the properties favoring laser cutting are bad for 3d printing. In laser cutting you don't want a plastic that melt, but one that get vaporized and therefore give you clean sharp edges. Also lexan is not a name for acrylic, it's polycarbonate.
Alrighty then, I've read a lot and watched a lot of videos and still, i have a question: what's the best filament to use to print a simple car cofee cup holder? It will be small to hold a small coffee paper cup, it will always be in the car (which in summer will heat up to 50+ celsius) and maybe, if the sun shines just right, it may or may not be exposed to direct sunlight for few hours / day. So, which one is it? I plan to buy a CREALITY Ender-3 S1 Pro as a certain store gave me store credit which will cover the price of one of these. It's the only thing they have in stock and i am brand new to 3D printing.
PCTG is as easy as PLA, and we have it on the site now! visionminer.com/products/pctg Also...... it's z-axis adhesion is STRONGER than it's X/Y. Yeah. Magic. Insane. And not even expensive!!
@@VisionMiner what keeps me from dealing with both of these is not having an all metal hot end. I have Capricorn tubing to replace the stock PTFE in my machine that's supposedly rated to 260. Do you think I can print with it at 255 first layer and drop to 250 after?
@@JasonEllingsworth for sure, we've gotten good results at 250! Generally we print hotter to ensure excellent layer fusion, but you'll definitely be able to get nice parts!
Can CF nylon be used as mold for handlaying carbonfiber? How does it react and work with carbonfiber curing mix? Obvious usage is automotive and bespoke consumer product. A client brings in their favorite 'coffee maker' and ask for a automotive carbon fiber weave slipon. We scan the coffee maker, clean it up in Rhino, print it via Chitbox or similar with compatible 3d printer into a CF nylon part. Then use that part to hand lay carbonfiber with curing/bonding gelmix.
as a semi retired machinist we want to start doing 3-d printing but how can we find out starting prices for a printer that can print nylon abs? There seems no way to research it since you just end up on someones website to sell you stuff. we dont want a basic printer like people use in their living room for little toy parts. if we want to make basic part of abs what amount of money are we looking at to get started? How do i find that information?
I’ve got a Dremel 3d45 and they say you should only use their filaments but is this true other than voiding the warranty. Also I normally print pla but if I want to start a small business should I use pla, nylon or eco-abs
i want to start 3D printing and i want to make some custom pc parts something similar to the Shark X custom pc stuff, can you guys recommend to a newbie a 3D printer and the best material? Thanks
Is CF Nylon dangerous? I've heard it should never be sanded and you should only handle it with gloves. I was considering it for an assembly of interlocked parts that rotate with tight tolerances but I'm concerned the friction could release fibers that could get inhaled or stuck in the skin. I'm looking for a filament that's as close as I can get to 7075-T6 aluminum.
Hey, I am a fan of your PA6+CF filament, the attributes are really superb. Rhe track at 29:00 is so juicy, do yuo guys have the trach id? :) I would apreciate it too!
Hey, do you happen to have recommendations for thermally conductive filament? I'm currently attempting to print with TC Poly TPE, but printing with flexible filaments won't work for this particular application.
Solvay ? Interesting. Pope was working at Solvay at difficult times... In 1942, Wojtyla became a student of theology in an underground seminary while continuing to work at the Solvay factory.... Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure it was different Solvay.
I've never even thought of a filament in terms of radiation resistance. Is that a thing? Also, chemical resistance seems to be pretty high on the list of concerns. As a non-industrial user, I just want my part to not be brittle, it has to look good, print easy and not melt in the sun and I don't want to pay like $500 per kilo of the stuff, but other than that, I'm good. I'm not going to print a Chernobyl robot that has to go through some acids.
I'm trying to 3d print rock climbing holds. I know that we use PU to make climbing holds. I was wondering about the property differences between polyurethane and thermoplastic polyurethane?
Now that it's out (and we have it in stock: visionminer.com/products/pctg), I think we'd re-classify it as a super material... it's quite awesome, and with that z-strength, it's insane!
Hi there guys, I would like to know how viable is HDPE printing especially when it's an HDPE nano-composite , Would it run into problems like other materials
I have a design which is a Nintendo Switch game card holder. A local company is offering me 4 options for printing but I have no idea what material would be best for the above use? The options are SLS PA12 Nylon (100 Micron layer thickness) FDM PLA (200 Micron layer thickness) FDM Onyx/CFF (100 Micron layer thickness) FDM TPU (200 Micron layer thickness) The FDMs also have a "filling" option, 20 Standard, 50% Dense and 100% Solid? What would people suggest, I have no idea at all.
The beauty of PP 3d printing is it's best friend packing tape! Unfortunately hdpe packing tape doesn't really match it's material properties! I just wish I didn't have to sacrifice a raft so I don't have tape on the bottom!
I think ABS should have been a rank higher. It's probably the cheapest filament you can find, even some of the cheap brands don't really smell if you don't print it too hot, warping isn't too much of a problem unless you're doing massive prints or have crap bed adhesion, it barely if at all strings, it's got good mechanical properties and heat resistance. People say it's hard to print, I think they are full of equine manure.
I would love to try and print ABS but i dont have an enclosure yet for my PRUSA mk3s, everyone almost says that ABS is a very difficult to print plus there’s always mentioning this warping issue. Now I’m almost afraid to try it ☹️😖
@@ripmax333 Technically you just need a large cardboard box, stick it over the printer and you're g2g. That said Prusa printers are probably one of the worst printers to enclose. Most of the plastic parts are PETG which will warp over time in an enclosure and it is difficult to isolate electronics from the enclosure as the added heat will reduce their life span. If it were me an I was stuck with Prusa, I would re-print all of the parts in ABS(The printer should last long enough for that) and find way to mount the PSU, control board and screen to the outside of the enclosure.
@@ripmax333 Depends on how well insulated it is and the size of the bed heater. I have a 350mm, 300 watt bed in a fairly well sealed enclosure, It gets up to around 60-70C in the chamber with the bed set to 100C. Most motors and belts will handle that just fine but at those temps the electronics(particularly electrolytic capacitors) will degrade at an accelerated rate which is why it's best to isolate them if you're going to be using an enclosure long term. Another concern I forgot to mention is the hotend, you may want to upgrade the fan so that you don't have heat creep issues. Probably would be fine with box on a Prusa but it can't hurt. Using a v6 with a bi-metal heatbreak isn't a bad idea, but an 6000-8000RPM fan cranked up all the way should more than suffice. I personally use a dragon hotend with the fan around 4000RPM and have no issues. If you really want to get into more exotic materials and use a chamber heater you will need liquid or external air compressor cooling, high temp motors and belts. I plan on going this route eventually, maybe even this winter if I can wrap up my other more pressing projects.
xXx Is the best filament ever. It is lighter than silk, stronger than Kevlar. It can withstand 1200 degrees Celsius after curing and it is bulletproof in single layer. And you can print it at room temperature. The only problem is i have to invent it first, sorry my bad...
I wanted to share some feedback on your recent video featuring Rob Lent and Cole McHone. While the content was excellent, I found the presentation challenging to watch due to the on-camera demeanor of Cole. His apparent lack of interest and engagement, such as rolling his eyes during Rob's segments, made the video difficult to enjoy. This attitude unfortunately detracted from the overall quality of what could have been a stellar presentation. Rob's delivery was dynamic, enthusiastic, and right on point. I believe the video would have been much stronger if Rob had presented the material solo, as Cole's apparent disinterest made it hard to stay engaged. Cole, I suggest reviewing the video with your colleagues and paying attention to the non-verbal cues you are projecting. Improving your on-camera presence could make a significant difference in the effectiveness of future presentations. As I mentioned, the content itself is great, but the delivery needs improvement. I hope this feedback is helpful.
Timestamps:
S Tier
---
2:10 CF Nylon
4:14 Ultem 9085
6:13 TPU/TPE
8:36 Polypropylene
A Tier
---
11:29 Nylon
12:20 ASA
13:25 PCTG
15:26 PPSU
17:39 CF PEEK
B Tier
---
20:51 PVDF
22:40 PVA
24:23 Ultem 1010
25:54 PC/ABS + PC/ASA
C Tier
---
28:49 PEEK
30:52 PLA / PETG / ABS
/ PC
U Tier
---
32:30 Delrin (POM)
33:21 PMMA (Acrylic / Plexiglas / Lexan)
33:56 FEP (Teflon)
I Tier
---
34:31 ESD-safe Materials
(Chopped Carbon / Glass Fiber included, but not discussed)
We love you. You just earned some free swag! Shoot us an email and mention this video :)
Its nxt level of timestamps.
You are amazing
Why the heck does this channel doesn't have more subs? You have great content..quality video, and you guys are frank speakers
can't put my finger on it but you guys are really interesting to watch and i love the personalities you bring, I'm not even a hobby printer but i find this stuff really interesting to learn about, you guys earned a sub :)
Thanks man! Many more coming! :)
CANDID.. just makes sense. No manipulation, no vested interest. Just honest.
+1 for putting TPU in the spotlight. I have taken a real liking to armadillo TPU. The most rigid TPU out there at the moment I think, really fairly rigid. But insane layer adhesion, zero warp, and quite high yield... for any application not explicitly optimized for stiffness, I think it will basically be my go-to material. The product of indestructibility and printability is really off the charts.
There are more rigid TPU's now too, and we agree, @ninjaflex3d is awesome!
The only downside with Armadillo is the super low heat tolerance tho… which saddens me
This was an outstanding review.
I was an industrial chemist and this is an excellent summary without getting into the causal elements which, for most, is boring.
Well done guys. Keep it coming I subed.
Awesome breakdown guys, thank you!
I'm at the stage where I'm comfortable printing most of the 'engineering' materials (CF-PA, PC, ASA, TPU, PP, etc).
And I recently upgraded my HotEnd and tested it up to 450C, and I even got some Ultem1010 and CF-PEEK,
but I still don't dare to try it, without heated chamber and proper oven for annealing.
However I just wanted to say that your videos are highly appreciated and a rare insight in high-end thermoplastics!
Thanks man! The annealing phase isn't as important as it seems, for general-use parts. If you want to do small parts, or parts that are close to the bed, you should be able to get away with some stuff :)
@@VisionMiner
I have successfully printed (and annealed) both Ultem9085 and CF-PEEK today!
Printing (on CR-10 ;):
Ultem9085 @ 350C / 170C
CF-PEEK @ 400C / 150C
Annealing:
Ultem9085: 1h@120C -> 1h@150C -> 30m@120C
CF-PEEK: 1h@150C -> 1h@200C -> 30m@150C
Object was small (mini-tongs, 10g, 100mm long, 12mm high) and I used PEI with your Nano Polymer Adhesive so I had no problem with warping at all.
Still I'm so proud and happy! :D
Thanks a lot for encouragement!
Love the video. Are there any new interesting materials out since 2020? I would love to see an updated video of the new materials.
Holy sh*t, this is what i'm looking for!!. (has spend 3 hours searching & watching filament videos.)
guys your the best .
gladly Subscribed
15:18 need more of this :D
How, in the world, are your videos this good and informative with so few views and attention!? Definitely subscribing and will be watching more.
Thank you sir! We're growing, faster and faster :) Much appreciated!
I've been trying to find a video like this for days now
Zack freedman’s how to print every 3d filament is also a great one
Love your videos guys i work at 3D printing Canada im there TPU and TPE expert , but now i have moved up to PC Nylon 910 Nylon cf PCTPE, and now putting a mosquito hot end on my Troodon. im running a v6 e3d all metal hot end now but want to start printing PEI ext, also hoping my boss will bring in one of them Aon3D M2 printers so we can do better stuff in house. Because of your videos i have had great success with all my new materials. i also love that u can dye nylon, iv been so lucky not one warped part yet
Definitely let us know how we can help your boss get an AON :)
@@VisionMiner I messaged u on Instagram
I can not believe that I just found you. Instascribed! Can you guys do a comparison videos for each top tier materials? I would love to see say CF Nylons compared to each other and ranked and the same with all the other top tier materials. After finding your channel, this is going to be a huge time sink, Thanks.
Great video as always! There are so few resources out there for high temp filaments so thanks for sharing your expertise. You forgot my new favorite material - PSU.
Holy! Not only a very high quality video, but so much discussion and answering in the comments. Thanks for your dedication! So what is the opinion on HIPS, which I've seen very cheap for properties somewhere in between asa and abs. Also one of the recycling filaments just like PP.
This was really informative, thanks guys. Would love to see an updated 2023 version of this.
Good to see Steve-O and Johnny Knoxville got real jobs. Thanks for the info guys!
Insane Video! I'm having HUGE trouble with peek printing. I've already banged my head against the wall plenty of times thinking what I'm doing wrong
Good news: it's probably not you. It's your settings :) and the polymer is insane, so go hotter, thinner walls, and less dense areas, you'll have better luck generally.
i printed with almost all those materials and eventually realized that for prototyping and test its best to use pla .
almost all high temp filaments absorb moisture like crazy . specially ultem , nylon and pc .
so when planning to print anything you need to remember to put the filament in the oven to remove moisture for several hours .
pla also absorbs moisture , but it prints at low temp , so the impact on print quality is minimal .
if you try to print moist ultem @ almost 400c your hot end will steam like crazy .
those materials are not yet optimized for 3d printing . i 'm tired of waiting for the filament in the oven each time i need to print something . so for prototyping i'm using pla .
bed adhesion is also an issue . vision miners adhesive is very good , but the problem is the part wont release when cooled down . i broke several glass surfaces and very expensive ceramic glass just by trying to remove the damn parts . "glue" is not a solution , we need adhesives that will release when temp gets lower , not just glue the parts to the bed like crazy .
lots of works still needs to be done .
It's best to not use glass with their adhesive or high temp in general, use a carbon fiber plate, then you can let it cool down and pop off. Otherwise you must generally remove the print while it's still hot or it will take pieces of glass with it.
Very true. That's why we made the carbon plates -- we kept breaking expensive glass! visionminer.com/carbon -- changes the whole game :)
As for drying, that's another thing, for sure -- we've gotten our system down pretty good now. In regards to prototypes, yes -- PLA just works, almost every time, so whenever we're doing a part and want to see what we're going up against -- an easy print in PLA is a good option before using the high-temp materials. Cheers!
sss: Try PVDF. Its almost as good as Ultem but has ZERO moisture absorbing. addnorth.com/en/product/Adamant%20S1?sku=ANPV14WHI
(im not working for addnorth or sponsed by them)
@@hightempreviews5137 well you.just mentioned temperature. There are other usedcases outside of that.
@@VisionMiner Please share that system in regards to drying of these filaments.
Are we not going to talk about their "POG's" reference at the beginning of the PPSU??? lol.... I'm getting old!
Great video fellas!!!
The amount of POGs we could 3D print now....... and the designs, oh man! :D
I've watched this entire video about 3 or 4 times now. Thank you!
Glad it helped!
Rob and Cole - thanks, great review. Your style is inimitable, great how you bounce off each other - love it. Keep up the great work. Excellent information. Appreciated.
I love what you guys do. I wish there were more activity and discussion on your Facebook page. Last post was in 2019.
This is the ONE video to watch! Thanx guys, just ❤❤❤
Great video!!! Loved it but was hoping to hear any thoughts on HIPS. B or C Tier can also be used as a dissolve-able support.
Great Content. I'd like to see a comparison between CF filled ASA and CF filled Nylon.
Great suggestion!
Thank you for doing this. I am fairly new to 3d printing, and after tuning/tweaking/learning, I am at the point where the differences between brands/materials themselves are the next major hurdle to the quality of my results.
i wish you compared PC and ABS. I use abs for my printer parts.i design them as a hobby
I just did discovered your channel,
I really love what You're doing
Awesome, thank you!
The machines wich do not even exist... you made my day guys!
Best video I've seen like this. Great work.
If I was to choose a material to make a component that will not adhere to polyester resin or epoxy resin, what would you recommend?
Also is it fair to say that CF mix will lower warping?
Great video 👍
People building Voron 3D printers would like to have a word with you about how practical ABS is. Classing ABS/PLA/PETG as C seems weird, and "Skip ABS because noone wants to use it anymore"... I'm not sure what to tell you.
Not to say it isn't a great material, in and of itself -- but frankly, the warping can be tough on open machine printers for larger parts (rendering them often near impossible), the fumes are extremely toxic, and ASA is generally a far superior material to work with for the same price. Remember, this is graded between many filaments for 3D Printing, not the material properties themselves. ABS is awesome! just.... there are better options for FDM.
I printed some parts from 3Dxtech in both CF-nylon and GF-nylon. However after about 1 year, they became soft. When it was new it was stiff as hell and I got a super geek-hardon.
but yeah, over time it became softer and I Could actually bend it (not break it). And some of the jiggs I had started to form a new shape in the direction they were made to take up force.
HAve you any experience with this?
Alternatives? CF-PETG? idk..
Yes, this does happen over time. PPA, or high-temp nylon, especially the blend from Essentium HTNCF25 has much better performance over time, takes on less moisture.
yeah as stated before, sounds like moisture. The mechanical props of nylon vary crazily with the amount of water in them.
Ive recently been doing some prints with GF-PP; not quite a stiff as CF-PA; but it could not care less about moisture, and it has that same really nice and indestructable feel to it. As pointed out in the video and from what I can tell from reading the literature its really one of the most fatigue resistant materials out there. Thats a big part of everyday mechanical performance, and a story really swept under the rug by focussing on modulus and UTS as measured by a single loading in a test jig, a mistake ive often made in the past as well. On the lower end of the stiffness range without fibers, and on the higher end with. With different grades of fiber fill, youve got a whole range of very useful materials to choose from.
Great comparison in this vid overall; but I do think its a bit unfair only PA gets put in the CF spotlight. GF-PP and CF-ABS-PC are close enough to PA in terms of modulus and UTS, but have many properties that might make them pull ahead (printability, moisture, glueability, and so on).
@@VisionMiner I agree with @Eelco Hoogendoorn with regards to GF-PP, I have printed some quite large parts out of the x-strand PP-GF30 on an ender 3 with all-metal hot-end, hardened nozzle and magigoo adhesive on a glass bed. It doesn't require a very expensive or complicated machine to print, the filament doesn't need to be dried and the warping is a lot better than unfilled PP. It's also quite stiff and has excellent inter-layer adhesion making it a lot stronger than neat PP (and importantly in my case has excellent chemical resistance).
I just wish it was more available and not so expensive. I feel like it gets overlooked for CF-PA but is probably as good or even better in a lot of applications.
Lovely talk
I would love to share some beers with you guys, thank you for the knowledge !!!
Great video guys. Toward the end of this video, you seem to indicate that Lexan and acrylic are the same thing. I don’t think they are. Lexan is polycarbonate. Acrylic has a long chemical name. A brand name for acrylic Lucite.
pla is the best filament, I always need it for a "good for printing" before I use expensive material. My customers love that. How often have they had a second chance to change something. 🤓
would have liked to hear about machinable wax filament.
Hi thanks for the video - you've got ASA appearing on the chart in Groups A and B... the one in B should be PVDF I think!
I'd really like to see a list of materials with associated thermal conductivity ratings, to help make good decisions for support structures and enclosures that need heatsinks. (E.g motor controller mounting etc)
When you guys talk about CF nylon is it nylon 12 or nylon 6? And how does CF ABS compare? I haven't seen CF ASA so is CF ABS better than standard ASA? if I don't have a dual extruder I know Nylon doesn't work well for supports so is CF ABS the strongest choice? A video on those materials would be great! thank you!
In our older videos, it was all PA6. Now, we have 6, 12, PPA/HTN, and others. New videos on the way! For CF, it all depends on the strands of CF being used. If it's milled, it's no good. Chopped, better, but then grade comes into play. visionminer.com/blogs/articles/carbon-fiber-3d-printing
Nylon works great as it's own support material, no problems there on a single extruder!
@@VisionMiner thanks guys! I started printing pctg based on your recommendation and I’m loving it! It warped so I had to throw together a quick enclosure but once I did it printed amazing , looks like injection mounding. I’m excited to try cf nylon but need to upgrade my hot end to all metal. Thanks for your feed back! Love the videos!
Wow, it's almost unbelievable that such an useful video like this can exist considering how hard finding unbiased filament material comparisons in the wild is, great job guys.
Thank you! While we do sell filaments -- it's alllll about getting the right stuff for the job, whoever you are, whatever you're doing :) Appreciate the comment! :)
Swap ASA and "PC/ABS + PC/ASA". Printability not much higher with PC/ABS + PC/ASA but better on every level.
I'll stick w PLA, thanks tho!
The funny thing is, I am using 3DJake Eco PLA ( it's a PLA+ ) and it has the highest tensile strength of almost all filaments I can find. I print parts out of it that are nearly indestructible. Everyone claims that other filaments - excluding PEEK, PEKK, ... - are stronger, but disregarding high temp and/or impact applications, this PLA is unbreakable.
I do love the look of PA-CF, but for - most of - my applications, that would be putting form over function.
*PCTG ANNEALING* Would you happen to have any info on that? I'll take anything you've got. I haven't found much apart from one video by Essentium wherein they loosely describe the annealing process. Maybe it's as easy as their video makes it sound but in my experience that is _not_ likely to be the case. I flipped through their white papers and didn't see anything on PCTG annealing but I might have missed it. Thanks guys!
Generally you gradually heat it up to the TG (glass transition point), in this case 76c, and let it sit for a few hours, then let it gradually cool back down. Annealing in a nutshell.... sometimes those up/down scales can take 1-3 days, for super high temp materials, for PCTG though, it could be done in a work day.
@@VisionMiner Awesome, thank you! Just ordered a roll from you.
Can some material expert please give multi advice on what to call out for black material to make some VENTS for on my cars front bumper. Rough cut opening for this vent is is 1.25 inch slots by 6 inches for a racing intercooler added knock out venting to add more airlow. The new intercooler is double the size of oem one. The opening in the front bumper is too small , and I need to get direct air to the larger cooler. So I will cut 3 openings in the front bumper cover below and above the OEM styled opening. So 6 vents as to keep some material between the vent to keep the front bumper cover together. I figure 5mm x 5mm "L" vent, 2.5mm thickness. with a 2 mm strut at the 3 inch center mark to hold the vent in shape ( from spreading) I will add silicone to the top of the lower "foot" of the "L" to seal the vent and hold it into the bumper cover. "Example in a larger form" would be a floor furnace vent. 2 inches by 10 inch floor vent on how that fits into the floor. But my "air direction" will be coming from the top of said floor vent example in my added intercooler vents scenario. I hope you can figure out what I am doing. I want some flexibility to follow the front bumper styling changes that is not extreme but is not straight as a floor. ,It will also have to take the suns direct long term heat as it could be in sun all day long term and not melt. At this point I will be using privaters to save cost so something a high end advance user would have in stock. I assume I need to ask for a well heated chamber too? Thanks.
Most ESD materials are designed to prevent a static charge from building up in the first place, only really the silver shielding bags that are intended to protect components from outside sources of ESD.
thanks. I am asking for a suggested material.
I am building a first run of 20 2mm wall thick enclosures at 200mmx200mmx45mm consisting of a case and a back that snap together meant for a bookshelf indoor use. Inside is a rigid 191x191 led matrix at the front and some electronics mounted to the back cover. Finish is very important. I have printed a few in PLA to get my design worked out. I am testing for deformation and have seen some evidence. It seems, from your excellent video, that PCTG might be the next one to try. If successful, the cases will be farmed out to injection molding. I am printing on a Qidi X-Max. thanks, RIchie
awesome video, very informative. Although I wish there were more footage of examples for each one.
came across this video bc i need a shift knob printed and have to decide on a material. Im thinking nylon or CF PEEK ?
are all materials able to be painted with color ? I need a shiny solid look, and will the material come into play on that or will that mostly rely on the paint
Can I ask elaboration on why you said do not use CF-nylon with carbon fiber. As this kombination is key to one of my products? btw, I mamufacture all my automotive designs in ASA, love it.
Sorry, where in the video did we say that? If you could provide a timestamp that would be great, and we'll happily clarify!
@@VisionMiner 3:19
@@djremotion2 Ah - he was actually referencing the abrasiveness, and putting two carbon-fiber nylon parts together, like gears against each other, because they are abrasive, while regular nylon is self-lubricating. So -- you can definitely use CF-Nylon with carbon fiber, just be aware of it's abrasiveness :)
@@VisionMiner Ok my application is completely static. But I am going to 3d printed aluminium instead of cf-nylon now.
interesting how the worst plastics for 3d printing are the most popular for laser cutting (Acrylic and delrin are. PTFE isn't laser cut often likely cause of the harmful fluorine in it, but disregarding that I think PTFE's cutting/engraving quality is good)
I wonder if the properties favoring laser cutting are bad for 3d printing. In laser cutting you don't want a plastic that melt, but one that get vaporized and therefore give you clean sharp edges.
Also lexan is not a name for acrylic, it's polycarbonate.
It has more to do with rheology, or the flow of plastics in a melted state... it gets pretty interesting, lol
@@VisionMiner Good to know, thanks.
Alrighty then, I've read a lot and watched a lot of videos and still, i have a question: what's the best filament to use to print a simple car cofee cup holder? It will be small to hold a small coffee paper cup, it will always be in the car (which in summer will heat up to 50+ celsius) and maybe, if the sun shines just right, it may or may not be exposed to direct sunlight for few hours / day. So, which one is it?
I plan to buy a CREALITY Ender-3 S1 Pro as a certain store gave me store credit which will cover the price of one of these. It's the only thing they have in stock and i am brand new to 3D printing.
I fell in love with the crystallized print with the PCTG. Would it be okay to make dishes out of it? How does it do with being painted over?
😂, great video. I’m at the mastered PETG stage, ready to give pctg and carbon fiber nylon a try.
PCTG is as easy as PLA, and we have it on the site now! visionminer.com/products/pctg
Also...... it's z-axis adhesion is STRONGER than it's X/Y. Yeah. Magic. Insane. And not even expensive!!
@@VisionMiner what keeps me from dealing with both of these is not having an all metal hot end. I have Capricorn tubing to replace the stock PTFE in my machine that's supposedly rated to 260. Do you think I can print with it at 255 first layer and drop to 250 after?
@@JasonEllingsworth for sure, we've gotten good results at 250! Generally we print hotter to ensure excellent layer fusion, but you'll definitely be able to get nice parts!
What brand(s) of polypropylene are you using?
We've used gizmodorks, with good results!
26:15 I take this as a complement as I print with PC pretty often in a cardboard box.
Can CF nylon be used as mold for handlaying carbonfiber? How does it react and work with carbonfiber curing mix? Obvious usage is automotive and bespoke consumer product. A client brings in their favorite 'coffee maker' and ask for a automotive carbon fiber weave slipon. We scan the coffee maker, clean it up in Rhino, print it via Chitbox or similar with compatible 3d printer into a CF nylon part. Then use that part to hand lay carbonfiber with curing/bonding gelmix.
as a semi retired machinist we want to start doing 3-d printing but how can we find out starting prices for a printer that can print nylon abs? There seems no way to research it since you just end up on someones website to sell you stuff. we dont want a basic printer like people use in their living room for little toy parts. if we want to make basic part of abs what amount of money are we looking at to get started? How do i find that information?
just a thought, but...isnt oil running out? is any one covering the next alternatives? veggie oils? sand nozzle printing?
I’ve got a Dremel 3d45 and they say you should only use their filaments but is this true other than voiding the warranty. Also I normally print pla but if I want to start a small business should I use pla, nylon or eco-abs
Where the hell do you find the filaments you guys are talking about to buy??
www.visionminer.com/materials :) On our website! :)
33:24 I think you mean Lucite, here. Lexan is polycarbonate. Very informative video, fellas.
Really appreciate this effort guys
How strong is ultem 1010 as far as using it with threads? Like do the threads hold up well and tighten well or is it supper brittle?
There is a little error in your Table. ASA is in Tier A and Tier B. But nice video!
Hah, good catch! Thanks! :)
i want to start 3D printing and i want to make some custom pc parts something similar to the Shark X custom pc stuff, can you guys recommend to a newbie a 3D printer and the best material? Thanks
hope you look into the toxicity of the chemicals used in the process of making the filament
@The Fourth Man lolololol nice
Is CF Nylon dangerous? I've heard it should never be sanded and you should only handle it with gloves. I was considering it for an assembly of interlocked parts that rotate with tight tolerances but I'm concerned the friction could release fibers that could get inhaled or stuck in the skin. I'm looking for a filament that's as close as I can get to 7075-T6 aluminum.
The video that made me subscribe. Thank you guys!
Cheers! :)
Hey, I am a fan of your PA6+CF filament, the attributes are really superb.
Rhe track at 29:00 is so juicy, do yuo guys have the trach id? :)
I would apreciate it too!
Hey, do you happen to have recommendations for thermally conductive filament? I'm currently attempting to print with TC Poly TPE, but printing with flexible filaments won't work for this particular application.
Have you tried their Rigid Nylon material? Super tough, and still thermally conductive!
Solvay ? Interesting. Pope was working at Solvay at difficult times... In 1942, Wojtyla became a student of theology in an underground seminary while continuing to work at the Solvay factory.... Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure it was different Solvay.
So what 3D printer can use all of the materials but the U Tier?
I've never even thought of a filament in terms of radiation resistance. Is that a thing? Also, chemical resistance seems to be pretty high on the list of concerns. As a non-industrial user, I just want my part to not be brittle, it has to look good, print easy and not melt in the sun and I don't want to pay like $500 per kilo of the stuff, but other than that, I'm good. I'm not going to print a Chernobyl robot that has to go through some acids.
PCTG and CFPA6 are your friends :)
At 20:50, PVDF was missing from the chart of filaments.
thank you!
@@VisionMiner No problem.
I'm trying to 3d print rock climbing holds. I know that we use PU to make climbing holds. I was wondering about the property differences between polyurethane and thermoplastic polyurethane?
are you still alive?
Where's HIPS?!?! Kidding, not kidding. Great video.
Great video? What’s the beat? Love the song
Good question... there's a few used throughout!
What would be the quickest dry with a flexability ?
so why wasn't pctg S class?
Now that it's out (and we have it in stock: visionminer.com/products/pctg), I think we'd re-classify it as a super material... it's quite awesome, and with that z-strength, it's insane!
Hi there guys, I would like to know how viable is HDPE printing especially when it's an HDPE nano-composite , Would it run into problems like other materials
I have a design which is a Nintendo Switch game card holder.
A local company is offering me 4 options for printing but I have no idea what material would be best for the above use?
The options are
SLS PA12 Nylon (100 Micron layer thickness)
FDM PLA (200 Micron layer thickness)
FDM Onyx/CFF (100 Micron layer thickness)
FDM TPU (200 Micron layer thickness)
The FDMs also have a "filling" option, 20 Standard, 50% Dense and 100% Solid?
What would people suggest, I have no idea at all.
pla or tpu at 20% infill is just fine
Frankly, for that application, we'd go with the cheapest option. They should all work great!
SLS would be the "coolest" option, though ;)
Can you get nylon like u do for PLa in a roll?
What material would you recommend for boats both sail and power.? ie: resistant to weather , salt, temperature?
We have many marine customers using ULTEM 1010, 9085, and CFPEEK, with great results!
When are the videos about the illegal machines coming out?
Wait, what do you mean? Regarding the patents? Or?
@@VisionMiner :3 yis
@@Tedlasman Well, nothing's really been released in the USA yet, so I think most companies are avoiding it, lol!
Some really helpful stuff
Any thoughts on HDPE printing? I hear it's almost impossible to print, but from a recycling perspective it could be huge.
It's getting there, good idea for a video!
I can print PP no problem, but HDPE always failed to stick to the print bed... But you are right for the recycling perspective.
The beauty of PP 3d printing is it's best friend packing tape! Unfortunately hdpe packing tape doesn't really match it's material properties! I just wish I didn't have to sacrifice a raft so I don't have tape on the bottom!
*for clarity, I mean making packing tape out of hdpe doesn't match hdpe's properties
interesting ... but sad that no way to get in Malaysia. hum
No way to get what? We ship worldwide! :)
I think ABS should have been a rank higher. It's probably the cheapest filament you can find, even some of the cheap brands don't really smell if you don't print it too hot, warping isn't too much of a problem unless you're doing massive prints or have crap bed adhesion, it barely if at all strings, it's got good mechanical properties and heat resistance. People say it's hard to print, I think they are full of equine manure.
This is true :)
I would love to try and print ABS but i dont have an enclosure yet for my PRUSA mk3s, everyone almost says that ABS is a very difficult to print plus there’s always mentioning this warping issue. Now I’m almost afraid to try it ☹️😖
@@ripmax333 Technically you just need a large cardboard box, stick it over the printer and you're g2g. That said Prusa printers are probably one of the worst printers to enclose. Most of the plastic parts are PETG which will warp over time in an enclosure and it is difficult to isolate electronics from the enclosure as the added heat will reduce their life span.
If it were me an I was stuck with Prusa, I would re-print all of the parts in ABS(The printer should last long enough for that) and find way to mount the PSU, control board and screen to the outside of the enclosure.
@@creamofbotulismsoup9900 how much heat there is during printing in an enclosure? In fact there IKEA table enclosure they tell to put the PSU outside.
@@ripmax333 Depends on how well insulated it is and the size of the bed heater. I have a 350mm, 300 watt bed in a fairly well sealed enclosure, It gets up to around 60-70C in the chamber with the bed set to 100C. Most motors and belts will handle that just fine but at those temps the electronics(particularly electrolytic capacitors) will degrade at an accelerated rate which is why it's best to isolate them if you're going to be using an enclosure long term.
Another concern I forgot to mention is the hotend, you may want to upgrade the fan so that you don't have heat creep issues. Probably would be fine with box on a Prusa but it can't hurt. Using a v6 with a bi-metal heatbreak isn't a bad idea, but an 6000-8000RPM fan cranked up all the way should more than suffice. I personally use a dragon hotend with the fan around 4000RPM and have no issues.
If you really want to get into more exotic materials and use a chamber heater you will need liquid or external air compressor cooling, high temp motors and belts. I plan on going this route eventually, maybe even this winter if I can wrap up my other more pressing projects.
Why is ASA in both A and B Tiers?
xXx Is the best filament ever. It is lighter than silk, stronger than Kevlar. It can withstand 1200 degrees Celsius after curing and it is bulletproof in single layer. And you can print it at room temperature. The only problem is i have to invent it first, sorry my bad...
sad, they left out psu, pekk, pps etc. :( Still great video.
About time for a new version....
8:14 thats a bowden extruder, what about a direct extruder?
It will happen with direct drive, too, if there is too much space in the filament path :)
I wanted to share some feedback on your recent video featuring Rob Lent and Cole McHone. While the content was excellent, I found the presentation challenging to watch due to the on-camera demeanor of Cole. His apparent lack of interest and engagement, such as rolling his eyes during Rob's segments, made the video difficult to enjoy. This attitude unfortunately detracted from the overall quality of what could have been a stellar presentation.
Rob's delivery was dynamic, enthusiastic, and right on point. I believe the video would have been much stronger if Rob had presented the material solo, as Cole's apparent disinterest made it hard to stay engaged.
Cole, I suggest reviewing the video with your colleagues and paying attention to the non-verbal cues you are projecting. Improving your on-camera presence could make a significant difference in the effectiveness of future presentations.
As I mentioned, the content itself is great, but the delivery needs improvement. I hope this feedback is helpful.
Igus tribo filament ?
We'll need to look into this one! :)
what is hard 3d printer material
Lexan is polycarbonate. Plexiglass is acrylic.
I heard cf nylon fibres are dangerous to inhale
Very much so. When used encased in polymers though, they're much, much safer :)
Thanks
What about Nylon??
It’s on there - polyamide
CF Nylon vs CF-PC?
What test examples do you have in mind? Email them to contact@visionminer.com and we'll work it out!