Funny how I have been struggling with this. You read the Bible and read all the talk about salvation by faith etc . Then all of a sudden you hear predestination or elect and I simply can’t wrap my head around a God that would destine someone to hell thousands of years before you were born.. I also have to admit I love Martin Luther. I feel like I am talking to a friend when I read him-thank you Pastor
I love the benediction at the end of the letter: "May the dear Lord Jesus Christ show you His hands and His side..." obviously harking to the story of Apostle Thomas. Teresa of Avila had a vision once of Christ in all His glory, but she responded with "Begone Satan!" Satan then asked, "How did you know? I was there. My image of Jesus was perfect down to the last hair." Teresa replied, "The wounds" (which were missing). Sermons about Thomas during Pentecost typically fail to point out how wise he was to double-check that the risen Christ appearing to them was genuine - considering Jesus had also preached that the Deceiver (an expert) would create false signs and lead people astray. I love that Luther invoked Thomas. Doubt is the key to discernment, even as the Gospel is discernment's primary tool.
In Sunday School, my Pastor will sometimes ask "any questions?" and I'll say "I have a question on predestination" and he'll usually throw something at me.
This was beautiful. So thankful for this. I've often found comfort In Gerhards prayer books who follows the outline temptation - promise - adoration. SOOO GOOD :)
Thank you so much for posting this wonderful study. It is truly amazing and deep, comforting and nourishing. I’m hoping that the August seminar will eventually be posted as well. I couldn’t help but notice the impressive line up of books behind each of you. One could spend a lifetime exploring there. ‘If you believe you are called and elected’. God be praised.
Quick Summation: "When the Snake (the Devil) sneaks into your camp, just put your eyes on the Bronze Serpent (Jesus on the cross). If you believe, then you are called, and if you are called, then you are pre-destined. So don't worry about the hidden stuff, just look at what the LORD has told you to look at." Pr. Wolfmüller (around 50:24)
Great discussion! With two nursing students in the household, I marvel how words in a study text soon turn into training that God uses at a time he “predestines” to save a life. To me, the Lord’s Prayer is the opposite in the respect we have words in a study text. Full stop! Christ has already passed the training. There is no life to save. It was predestined by God. Possibly the greatest hurdle is the patient or reader “knowing” they’re alive. Thanks guys. Always love Luther writings. 😁. God’s grace and peace to you both
Luther's letter to Melanchthon and melanchton's incessant worrying is a hoot. Worthwhile to check it out in the same book. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants and Luther knows how to do that well.
Where does God commands you to worry? Wonderful thougt! Stay focus on whats said, not on the hidden stuffs. Has Jesus died for me? Yes! Well, that's all you need to know.
Was his presentation at your church recorded. He seems very pastoral himself. Btw I love your upbeat demeanor and loving heart. Thank God for his Pastors.
I think your timeline is helpful to others. The initial discussion on his letters is interesting, but for those who want just to know about pre-destination, best to skip to at least 20 minutes in.
I am an LCMS Lutheran that has recently become more interested in studying our Lutheran confessions and doctrines. I understand and agree with most of the points both of you made, especially about the importance of not trying to come up with answers to questions that scripture is silent on. However, I believe that scripture is crystal clear on both predestination, which is what Lutheran doctrine teaches, and double predestination; Romans 9:18-24 couldn’t lay out both of these concepts more clearly in my opinion. Could you help me understand what exactly it is that I’m missing here when interpreting these verses? I know this isn’t a make-or-break question/answer when it comes to proving/disproving the validity of Lutheranism, but I’m just having a hard time reconciling these verses to our church doctrine. I appreciate any clarification you can give.
Did you notice the words, "What if?" Don't mistake a hypothetical for an assertion. I'm not at all sure that Romans 9 even teaches that Pharoah was eternally lost, just that he played a role God had assigned him beforehand in the story of the Exodus. If God is not willing that any should perish, double predestination cannot be true- and it's simply not up to us to resolve the paradox of how God can elect some without passing by the others.
I'm not troubled because as understood by most people it's a wrong interpretation invented by Augustine that all the other ancient Doctors of the Church and the other Patriarchs rejected. Augustine slipped back towards Mani in his old age and was almost not recognized as bishop because his teaching had become questionable on some points.
My thought: John 12:32 says "And when I am lifted up from the earth [crucified] I will draw everyone to myself." Everyone. So yes, we have the elect. But who does Christ elect? Everyone - at least everyone willing to come.
Here's a angle you may have not thought of, and it's a very obvious one and I feel silly that I just looked at it that way and had not seen it before. When I eat my lunch today I could elect to have a salad and a sandwich or I could elect to have a full meal. God's election is really nothing more than his decision. Jesus said broad is the road that leads to destruction and many there be on it but the road that leads to eternal life is narrow and few there be that find it, so from this scripture we know that God does not decide to save everyone. We have no right to question that, the secret things belong to the Lord, the Lord is good and he does right all the time so whatever he decides or elects to do is right. The just shall live by faith.
@@donsimonds5186 I understand what you're getting at, and you're right that Jesus cannot be questioned as (although of course, it's ok to ask questions!). However, I do not believe that God created any soul for the purpose of sending that soul to Hell - if a person goes to Hell, therefore, it is because that person, so far as their knowledge of good and evil made possible, rejected God's love and mercy by their own free will.
And yet, Jesus also said there will be those who will not come and who are not children of God (John 8). Universalism is false. Christ came to seek and save those whom God gave Him. "Everyone" will be those elect whether Jew, Gentile, male, or female. John 6 is very clear on predestination. It is very true that the believer should be comforted by predestination and this is why Jesus said, "no one will snatch them out of my hand."
@@wildbill6536 Since you didn't cite a verse, I'm having a hard time finding the passage you refer to in "John 8" especially as there is also a "letter of John" in addition to the Gospel. To your point, however, if God created some people with no thought of mercy for them, but only to send them to hell, and others for heaven, then (1) there is no point in spreading the gospel, because the result will be the same in terms of who finds salvation, and (2) He would not be a very kind God. You would also be denying the free choice of mankind to accept or reject God, and also to accept or reject sin. And in denying free will, you are implying an utter lack of responsibility for our own actions and mistakes.
Also, 1 John 3:8 says "Whoever sins belongs to the devil..." Thus, we all sin, and are all, in that sense, BOUND for Hell, but Jesus saves us, my neighbor as much as myself.
I’ve tried to find that verse Luther says is in Proverbs 7, and it’s not there. Does anyone know? I actually cannot find that verse at all in Scripture.
He must have been mistaken. The idea of exalting oneself at your own peril is not in this verse. Maybe it was divine as it's always good to read about avoiding the adulteress lol.
There is a book of Calvin's letters on various subjects, including the Anabaptists and how a Reformed son should relate to his Roman Catholic father...
Speaking as an unbeliever who, as far as I can tell, wasn't elected if the Bible is true, this strikes me as a long winded way of saying "stop asking questions we can't answer that might shed doubt on these ancient books written by anonymous authors."
𝗘𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗔𝗿𝗴𝘂𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗠𝗼𝗿𝗮𝗹 𝗡𝗶𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘀𝗺 Sub-premise 1a: Atheism does not believe in gods. Sub-premise 1b: Atheism does not believe in a priori moral transcendentals. (e.g. Dao, Dharma, Divine Logos) Premise 1: Therefore, Atheism does not believe in supernatural validation for moral claims. Sub-premise 2a: The eventual objective consequence of all actions is Entropy. Sub-premise 2b: Death eradicates all subjective experience of and caring about consequences. Premise 2: Consequence/utility cannot validate moral claims. Premise 3: Furthermore, Hume's guillotine refutes all moral claims derived from observable facts. Sub-premise 4a: It is not morally wrong to change or lose interest in one’s values. Sub-premise 4b: It is not morally wrong for societies to change value judgements. Sub-premise 4b: It is not morally wrong for individuals to change or resist societal value judgements. Premise 4: Therefore, value judgements do not validate the moral claims of those judgements. Conclusion: No validation for moral claims remains; Moral Nihilism is the only rational outlook for Atheism.
I hope the following may help :) when Paul writes in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God “desires” or wills for all people to be saved, to what is he referring: God’s providential will, or his moral will? He is referring to God’s moral purpose that all men everywhere should repent (turn to God) and be saved. Yes, it is God’s moral will that all be saved, but it is not his providential will that all be saved. Salvation will come only to “all people” who believe. So, then, what is Paul’s point in saying that it is God’s will for “all” to be saved? God has given his people the gospel to take to all nations. God’s will for every person on the planet is for him or her to repent and believe in the gospel. Some, by grace, will respond. And some will not respond. God’s people cannot know in advance who is going to respond to this message and who is not. God’s people are to pray and to preach to everyone concerning God’s will for them-that they should repent, believe, and be saved. The results of that witness are left to God. God desires all people to be saved, and these verses explain that there is only one way for them to be saved. There is only one God, and this means there is only one plan of salvation: his plan. God has appointed his Son, Jesus, to be a “mediator” between himself and sinners. Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead in order to heal the breach between a holy God and sinful man. In this way, “the man Christ Jesus” effects reconciliation between God and mankind. “Who gave himself” means that no one took Jesus’ life away from him (John 10:18). On the contrary, Jesus offered himself freely on the cross as a “ransom”- meaning that he died in the place of sinners to pay the price owed by them for their sins.6 This statement is likely a variation on Jesus’ own words concerning his death as a ransom (Mark 10:45; cf. Matt. 20:28). The ransom price was the penalty of death (cf. Gen. 2:17; Rom. 6:23). Sin deserves judgment, and Jesus took that judgment upon himself when he died on the cross. By his death, he provides forgiveness of sins. By his resurrection, he offers eternal life. He is a ransom “for all.” This ransom, however, is effective only for those who believe in Christ. Nevertheless, the giving of himself “for all” is a “testimony given at the proper time.” The “testimony” in view here most likely refers to testimony that serves as proof (BDAG, s.v. μαρτύριον), such as in a court of law. No doubt God is the one giving this testimony; in some sense Christ’s ransoming work is God’s proof that Christ has given himself on behalf of sinners. Its so simple, give the Lord a chance. If you have a genuine heart for wanting to know the truth he will respond - call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ & be saved. “Believe” 🙏🏻 Ps i’m not a Lutheran and don’t subscribe to them or Calvinism. I’m just a follower of Jesus. Keep it simple and don’t get too caught up in anything that could imply “works” related salvation or predestination elect. Just believe on the Lord Jesus and be baptised in the Holy Spirit and He will lead you.
@@Cotswoldblonde I appreciate your effort. I was previously a baptized believer with child like faith. But when I stopped to consider if there are reasons to believe these things are true, I found the reasons lacking. So, yes, I already went through "try it."
I wish this had helped me as much as it seems to have helped all the other people on this thread. I would have much preferred comfort from scripture rather than comfort from a letter from Luther.
Dear Pastor Wolfmueller, my neighbor’s son committed suicide at age 22 four years ago and I would like to know where in the Large catechism is Luther’s discussion on suicide. I would like to print it out and give it to my neighbor
Table Talk #222 April 7, 1532 Luther on Suicide “I don’t share the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil. They are like a man who is murdered in the woods by a robber. However, this ought not be taught to the common people lest Satan be given an opportunity to cause slaughter, and I recommend that the popular custom be strictly adhered to according to which the corpse is not carried over the threshold, etc. Such persons do not die by free choice or by law, but our Lord God will dispatch them as he executes a person through a robber. Magistrates should treat them quite strictly, although it is not plain that their souls are damned. However, they are examples by which our Lord God wishes to show that the devil is powerful and also that we should be diligent in prayer. But for these examples, we would not fear God. Hence he must teach us in this way.”
It is not in the Large Catechism but in one of his table talks where he says ''I don’t share the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil. They are like a man who is murdered in the woods by a robber. However, this ought not be taught to the common people, lest Satan be given an opportunity to cause slaughter, and I recommend that the popular custom be strictly adhered to according to which it [the suicide’s corpse] is not carried over the threshold, etc. Such persons do not die by free choice or by law, but our Lord God will dispatch them as he executes a person through a robber. Magistrates should treat them quite strictly, although it is not plain that their souls are damned. However, they are examples by which our Lord God wishes to show that the devil is powerful and also that we should be diligent in prayer. But for these examples, we would not fear God. Hence he must teach us in this way''.
This is what bothers me about LCMS theology. Here is a PT teacher interpreting Luther’s doctrine of election. This wouldn’t be at all likely happen in a Reformed seminary. The doctrines of election and predestination would normally be discussed by a prof of systematic theology. It’s just squirrelly.
@@Zorlig Well Ben K. that's a perfectly reasonable position but.... Arminianism and Calvinists fight it out to control American Evangelicalism, but we Lutherans believe all the scriptures about God not wanting to send people to Hell AND all the scriptures about predestination and come to the conclusion that their both right even if there appears to be a contradiction. We "own the mystery" rather than ignore parts of the Bible that don't fit into a neat theory of human logic and reason.
Because, even though he died to save the human-race each one of us has a different purpose. And for God he's not in our time dimension, he sees everything now. And why he knows our future. "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." - 2 Peter 3:8
Predestination: members of my family have lost their faith over this doctrine. Christ died to save the human race. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16 ✝️♥️🕊 And yet, we are given a free will to deny this free gift of faith. 😥 And GOD already knows-who will deny Him.
Jesus said, "No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" John 6:44. We are spiritually dead until God regenerates our heart and draws us to Jesus. Read Ephesians Chapter 1 and you will see we were chosen from the foundation of the world.
@@traviswatson6467 “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:3-4 NIV But sadly, “...They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.....” 2 Thessalonians 2:10b NIV
@@prettypleasevideo hopefully I can help break this verse down that Paul was writing to Timothy. I will have to get the Greek meaning and it will take some time , God definitely doesn’t want us to sin nor desires to send people to hell - but God is mankind’s greatest enemy since he is the only one that can send mans body and soul to hell . Please study soteriology and how salvation works , it’s a gift , no one deserves it , no one seeks it according to romans 3 because no one seeks for God.The Bible doesn’t contradict itself , nothing happened by chance , every bible character was hand picked , even Judas , he had no choice and was born to do his job . Bible HuB has a lot of commentaries that will help , john McAurthur is good as well . I use to believe that God needed our help to save us , but it’s not the case ,it’s simple when you dig in the NT , says the same thing over and over . Salvation is a super natural belief , mans pride wants to have a hand in it , but it clearly says that no man can brag . I’ll dig on this verse - there are a few more Armenian scriptures like this one as well that you could also support your argument , Dr James white has a few debates with Armenians , check them out on you tube.
The only free will you and I possess it is only the one to not accept the gospel. We are saved by grace, through the gift of grace, in the word and sacraments, not by our deeds and our fictitious free will for salvation.
Predestination. God is omniscient. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows who will come to him because we have free will. Jesus seeks and saves The Lost that belong to him.
@@soundimpact4633 They are referring to the Total Corruption/Total Depravity idea. That is, *because* of the fall we are so full of sin that we can't choose God without him calling us.
If you, while reading the Bible, start to write what you think it says, then, here it is one more book about the Bible and its teachings. To say ''books, books, books, eat etc'' you simply reveal your self-centered way of approaching the Bible and an anti-intellectualism not beautiful at all. Christianity is a religion of books, you like it or not. But, the right question is this ''what books are the best?''. Answer = plenty of them. I propose to you to start with the lutheran Book of Concord.
Luther - theology is faith learning how to endure the attack of the devil.
Faith flows from God to us. So helpful to hear this 🙏🏻
I have wrestled with this doctrine several times in my life. I needed to be comforted by Luther the Pastor again right now. Thank you for this
Funny how I have been struggling with this. You read the Bible and read all the talk about salvation by faith etc . Then all of a sudden you hear predestination or elect and I simply can’t wrap my head around a God that would destine someone to hell thousands of years before you were born.. I also have to admit I love Martin Luther. I feel like I am talking to a friend when I read him-thank you Pastor
I love Paul’s doxology. If he said what he said why should we try to go any farther. The doxology is so comforting and puts us in our place.
The great gentleman of the Armed Lutheran show brought me here. After this discussion, you got a new subscriber. Christ is king🙏🏻✝️
I love the benediction at the end of the letter: "May the dear Lord Jesus Christ show you His hands and His side..." obviously harking to the story of Apostle Thomas. Teresa of Avila had a vision once of Christ in all His glory, but she responded with "Begone Satan!" Satan then asked, "How did you know? I was there. My image of Jesus was perfect down to the last hair." Teresa replied, "The wounds" (which were missing). Sermons about Thomas during Pentecost typically fail to point out how wise he was to double-check that the risen Christ appearing to them was genuine - considering Jesus had also preached that the Deceiver (an expert) would create false signs and lead people astray. I love that Luther invoked Thomas. Doubt is the key to discernment, even as the Gospel is discernment's primary tool.
Another listen which only confirms this is PURE GOLD.
In Sunday School, my Pastor will sometimes ask "any questions?" and I'll say "I have a question on predestination" and he'll usually throw something at me.
Thank you again. There are rich treasures here.
This was beautiful. So thankful for this. I've often found comfort In Gerhards prayer books who follows the outline temptation - promise - adoration. SOOO GOOD :)
ELCA Lutheran here who appreciates your videos!
Man, I’ve been needing this! Thanks pastor.
I did not see that coming!
The guest.
Or that I would find myself in agreement with the guest.
God be praised.
Thank you Pastor, I enjoy all of your videos
Thank you…..from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you so much for posting this wonderful study. It is truly amazing and deep, comforting and nourishing. I’m hoping that the August seminar will eventually be posted as well. I couldn’t help but notice the impressive line up of books behind each of you. One could spend a lifetime exploring there. ‘If you believe you are called and elected’. God be praised.
Quick Summation:
"When the Snake (the Devil) sneaks into your camp, just put your eyes on the Bronze Serpent (Jesus on the cross). If you believe, then you are called, and if you are called, then you are pre-destined. So don't worry about the hidden stuff, just look at what the LORD has told you to look at." Pr. Wolfmüller (around 50:24)
This helps me understand the temptation of Christ so much better! Thanks Prof. Pless and Pr. Wolfmueller :D
Great discussion! With two nursing students in the household, I marvel how words in a study text soon turn into training that God uses at a time he “predestines” to save a life. To me, the Lord’s Prayer is the opposite in the respect we have words in a study text. Full stop! Christ has already passed the training. There is no life to save. It was predestined by God. Possibly the greatest hurdle is the patient or reader “knowing” they’re alive. Thanks guys. Always love Luther writings. 😁. God’s grace and peace to you both
Luther's letter to Melanchthon and melanchton's incessant worrying is a hoot. Worthwhile to check it out in the same book. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants and Luther knows how to do that well.
Where does God commands you to worry? Wonderful thougt! Stay focus on whats said, not on the hidden stuffs. Has Jesus died for me? Yes! Well, that's all you need to know.
Was his presentation at your church recorded. He seems very pastoral himself. Btw I love your upbeat demeanor and loving heart. Thank God for his Pastors.
I am a lot like Bunyan (writer of Pilgrim's Progress) - this was a wonderful talk to hear
1:30 Start of Convo
18:00 Intro to Barbara Lisskirchen
27:40 First point
36:51 Second point
39:40 Third point
46:45 Fourth point
I think your timeline is helpful to others. The initial discussion on his letters is interesting, but for those who want just to know about pre-destination, best to skip to at least 20 minutes in.
This video is sooooooo helpful. Thanks!
The amount of books in each of their backgrounds. 🤯
🤩😍📚📖
The last part of the video is very clarifying and neat. We're looking up to the cross!
Thank you for posting this content.
I’ve heard a comforting definition of the elect. They are the “whosoever wills “.
That was wonderful. Thank you both.
Your website is not working, is there a new one?
Thank you!
Excellent!
I am an LCMS Lutheran that has recently become more interested in studying our Lutheran confessions and doctrines. I understand and agree with most of the points both of you made, especially about the importance of not trying to come up with answers to questions that scripture is silent on. However, I believe that scripture is crystal clear on both predestination, which is what Lutheran doctrine teaches, and double predestination; Romans 9:18-24 couldn’t lay out both of these concepts more clearly in my opinion. Could you help me understand what exactly it is that I’m missing here when interpreting these verses? I know this isn’t a make-or-break question/answer when it comes to proving/disproving the validity of Lutheranism, but I’m just having a hard time reconciling these verses to our church doctrine. I appreciate any clarification you can give.
Did you notice the words, "What if?" Don't mistake a hypothetical for an assertion. I'm not at all sure that Romans 9 even teaches that Pharoah was eternally lost, just that he played a role God had assigned him beforehand in the story of the Exodus. If God is not willing that any should perish, double predestination cannot be true- and it's simply not up to us to resolve the paradox of how God can elect some without passing by the others.
I'm not troubled because as understood by most people it's a wrong interpretation invented by Augustine that all the other ancient Doctors of the Church and the other Patriarchs rejected. Augustine slipped back towards Mani in his old age and was almost not recognized as bishop because his teaching had become questionable on some points.
Nice discussion.
Lutheran theology really holds up for the bereaved. To me, Lutheran theology is Biblical theology.
My thought: John 12:32 says "And when I am lifted up from the earth [crucified] I will draw everyone to myself." Everyone. So yes, we have the elect. But who does Christ elect? Everyone - at least everyone willing to come.
Here's a angle you may have not thought of, and it's a very obvious one and I feel silly that I just looked at it that way and had not seen it before. When I eat my lunch today I could elect to have a salad and a sandwich or I could elect to have a full meal. God's election is really nothing more than his decision. Jesus said broad is the road that leads to destruction and many there be on it but the road that leads to eternal life is narrow and few there be that find it, so from this scripture we know that God does not decide to save everyone. We have no right to question that, the secret things belong to the Lord, the Lord is good and he does right all the time so whatever he decides or elects to do is right. The just shall live by faith.
@@donsimonds5186 I understand what you're getting at, and you're right that Jesus cannot be questioned as (although of course, it's ok to ask questions!). However, I do not believe that God created any soul for the purpose of sending that soul to Hell - if a person goes to Hell, therefore, it is because that person, so far as their knowledge of good and evil made possible, rejected God's love and mercy by their own free will.
And yet, Jesus also said there will be those who will not come and who are not children of God (John 8). Universalism is false. Christ came to seek and save those whom God gave Him. "Everyone" will be those elect whether Jew, Gentile, male, or female. John 6 is very clear on predestination. It is very true that the believer should be comforted by predestination and this is why Jesus said, "no one will snatch them out of my hand."
@@wildbill6536 Since you didn't cite a verse, I'm having a hard time finding the passage you refer to in "John 8" especially as there is also a "letter of John" in addition to the Gospel. To your point, however, if God created some people with no thought of mercy for them, but only to send them to hell, and others for heaven, then (1) there is no point in spreading the gospel, because the result will be the same in terms of who finds salvation, and (2) He would not be a very kind God. You would also be denying the free choice of mankind to accept or reject God, and also to accept or reject sin. And in denying free will, you are implying an utter lack of responsibility for our own actions and mistakes.
Also, 1 John 3:8 says "Whoever sins belongs to the devil..." Thus, we all sin, and are all, in that sense, BOUND for Hell, but Jesus saves us, my neighbor as much as myself.
I’ve tried to find that verse Luther says is in Proverbs 7, and it’s not there. Does anyone know? I actually cannot find that verse at all in Scripture.
He must have been mistaken. The idea of exalting oneself at your own peril is not in this verse. Maybe it was divine as it's always good to read about avoiding the adulteress lol.
There is a book of Calvin's letters on various subjects, including the Anabaptists and how a Reformed son should relate to his Roman Catholic father...
I can't imagine you like the book of concord very much
@@Zorlig You are in error, having knowledge doesn't require you to dislike the Book of Concord.
Speaking as an unbeliever who, as far as I can tell, wasn't elected if the Bible is true, this strikes me as a long winded way of saying "stop asking questions we can't answer that might shed doubt on these ancient books written by anonymous authors."
𝗘𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗔𝗿𝗴𝘂𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗠𝗼𝗿𝗮𝗹 𝗡𝗶𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘀𝗺
Sub-premise 1a: Atheism does not believe in gods.
Sub-premise 1b: Atheism does not believe in a priori moral transcendentals. (e.g. Dao, Dharma, Divine Logos)
Premise 1: Therefore, Atheism does not believe in supernatural validation for moral claims.
Sub-premise 2a: The eventual objective consequence of all actions is Entropy.
Sub-premise 2b: Death eradicates all subjective experience of and caring about consequences.
Premise 2: Consequence/utility cannot validate moral claims.
Premise 3: Furthermore, Hume's guillotine refutes all moral claims derived from observable facts.
Sub-premise 4a: It is not morally wrong to change or lose interest in one’s values.
Sub-premise 4b: It is not morally wrong for societies to change value judgements.
Sub-premise 4b: It is not morally wrong for individuals to change or resist societal value judgements.
Premise 4: Therefore, value judgements do not validate the moral claims of those judgements.
Conclusion: No validation for moral claims remains; Moral Nihilism is the only rational outlook for Atheism.
I hope the following may help :)
when Paul writes in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God “desires” or wills for all people to be saved, to what is he referring: God’s providential will, or his moral will? He is referring to God’s moral purpose that all men everywhere should repent (turn to God) and be saved. Yes, it is God’s moral will that all be saved, but it is not his providential will that all be saved. Salvation will come only to “all people” who believe.
So, then, what is Paul’s point in saying that it is God’s will for “all” to be saved? God has given his people the gospel to take to all nations. God’s will for every person on the planet is for him or her to repent and believe in the gospel. Some, by grace, will respond. And some will not respond. God’s people cannot know in advance who is going to respond to this message and who is not. God’s people are to pray and to preach to everyone concerning God’s will for them-that they should repent, believe, and be saved. The results of that witness are left to God.
God desires all people to be saved, and these verses explain that there is only one way for them to be saved. There is only one God, and this means there is only one plan of salvation: his plan. God has appointed his Son, Jesus, to be a “mediator” between himself and sinners. Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead in order to heal the breach between a holy God and sinful man. In this way, “the man Christ Jesus” effects reconciliation between God and mankind.
“Who gave himself” means that no one took Jesus’ life away from him (John 10:18). On the contrary, Jesus offered himself freely on the cross as a “ransom”- meaning that he died in the place of sinners to pay the price owed by them for their sins.6 This statement is likely a variation on Jesus’ own words concerning his death as a ransom (Mark 10:45; cf. Matt. 20:28). The ransom price was the penalty of death (cf. Gen. 2:17; Rom. 6:23). Sin deserves judgment, and Jesus took that judgment upon himself when he died on the cross. By his death, he provides forgiveness of sins. By his resurrection, he offers eternal life. He is a ransom “for all.” This ransom, however, is effective only for those who believe in Christ. Nevertheless, the giving of himself “for all” is a “testimony given at the proper time.” The “testimony” in view here most likely refers to testimony that serves as proof (BDAG, s.v. μαρτύριον), such as in a court of law. No doubt God is the one giving this testimony; in some sense Christ’s ransoming work is God’s proof that Christ has given himself on behalf of sinners.
Its so simple, give the Lord a chance. If you have a genuine heart for wanting to know the truth he will respond - call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ & be saved. “Believe” 🙏🏻
Ps i’m not a Lutheran and don’t subscribe to them or Calvinism. I’m just a follower of Jesus. Keep it simple and don’t get too caught up in anything that could imply “works” related salvation or predestination elect. Just believe on the Lord Jesus and be baptised in the Holy Spirit and He will lead you.
@@Cotswoldblonde I appreciate your
effort. I was previously a baptized believer with child like faith. But when I stopped to consider if there are reasons to believe these things are true, I found the reasons lacking. So, yes, I already went through "try it."
I wish this had helped me as much as it seems to have helped all the other people on this thread. I would have much preferred comfort from scripture rather than comfort from a letter from Luther.
Dear Pastor Wolfmueller, my neighbor’s son committed suicide at age 22 four years ago and I would like to know where in the Large catechism is Luther’s discussion on suicide. I would like to print it out and give it to my neighbor
Table Talk #222 April 7, 1532 Luther on Suicide
“I don’t share the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil. They are like a man who is murdered in the woods by a robber. However, this ought not be taught to the common people lest Satan be given an opportunity to cause slaughter, and I recommend that the popular custom be strictly adhered to according to which the corpse is not carried over the threshold, etc. Such persons do not die by free choice or by law, but our Lord God will dispatch them as he executes a person through a robber. Magistrates should treat them quite strictly, although it is not plain that their souls are damned. However, they are examples by which our Lord God wishes to show that the devil is powerful and also that we should be diligent in prayer. But for these examples, we would not fear God. Hence he must teach us in this way.”
It is not in the Large Catechism but in one of his table talks where he says ''I don’t share the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil. They are like a man who is murdered in the woods by a robber. However, this ought not be taught to the common people, lest Satan be given an opportunity to cause slaughter, and I recommend that the popular custom be strictly adhered to according to which it [the suicide’s corpse] is not carried over the threshold, etc. Such persons do not die by free choice or by law, but our Lord God will dispatch them as he executes a person through a robber. Magistrates should treat them quite strictly, although it is not plain that their souls are damned. However, they are examples by which our Lord God wishes to show that the devil is powerful and also that we should be diligent in prayer. But for these examples, we would not fear God. Hence he must teach us in this way''.
This is what bothers me about LCMS theology. Here is a PT teacher interpreting Luther’s doctrine of election. This wouldn’t be at all likely happen in a Reformed seminary. The doctrines of election and predestination would normally be discussed by a prof of systematic theology. It’s just squirrelly.
If Walthers calvinist understanding of election concerns you (it should) then try the confessional lutheran teaching.
I don't recall Walther preaching predestination to Hell in the few translated works of his I've seen
@@CornCod1 no difference between the two, if some are absolutely elected to salvation then those who aren't are absolutely damned by the same rule.
The confessional lutheran stance is that you are elected to salvation but not damnation.
@@Zorlig Well Ben K. that's a perfectly reasonable position but.... Arminianism and Calvinists fight it out to control American Evangelicalism, but we Lutherans believe all the scriptures about God not wanting to send people to Hell AND all the scriptures about predestination and come to the conclusion that their both right even if there appears to be a contradiction. We "own the mystery" rather than ignore parts of the Bible that don't fit into a neat theory of human logic and reason.
@@CornCod1 That is a position invented by Walther, it's neither Lutheran nor confessional.
Through Christ was it given to all man. So why would God tell one son to tell another, if it were poured out for all his sons
The doll is a bit creepy
Because, even though he died to save the human-race each one of us has a different purpose.
And for God he's not in our time dimension, he sees everything now. And why he knows our future.
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
- 2 Peter 3:8
John the Baptist ate Locusts and Luther had a diet of Worms🤔🤮
For all this things the pagans are searching for, but not so you. Seek the kingdom of God ...
Predestination: members of my family have lost their faith over this doctrine.
Christ died to save the human race.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
- John 3:16 ✝️♥️🕊
And yet, we are given a free will to deny this free gift of faith. 😥
And GOD already knows-who will deny Him.
Jesus said, "No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" John 6:44. We are spiritually dead until God regenerates our heart and draws us to Jesus. Read Ephesians Chapter 1 and you will see we were chosen from the foundation of the world.
If Christ died for the human race nobody’s in hell .
@@traviswatson6467 “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 NIV
But sadly,
“...They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.....”
2 Thessalonians 2:10b NIV
@@prettypleasevideo hopefully I can help break this verse down that Paul was writing to Timothy. I will have to get the Greek meaning and it will take some time , God definitely doesn’t want us to sin nor desires to send people to hell - but God is mankind’s greatest enemy since he is the only one that can send mans body and soul to hell . Please study soteriology and how salvation works , it’s a gift , no one deserves it , no one seeks it according to romans 3 because no one seeks for God.The Bible doesn’t contradict itself , nothing happened by chance , every bible character was hand picked , even Judas , he had no choice and was born to do his job . Bible HuB has a lot of commentaries that will help , john McAurthur is good as well . I use to believe that God needed our help to save us , but it’s not the case ,it’s simple when you dig in the NT , says the same thing over and over . Salvation is a super natural belief , mans pride wants to have a hand in it , but it clearly says that no man can brag . I’ll dig on this verse - there are a few more Armenian scriptures like this one as well that you could also support your argument , Dr James white has a few debates with Armenians , check them out on you tube.
The only free will you and I possess it is only the one to not accept the gospel. We are saved by grace, through the gift of grace, in the word and sacraments, not by our deeds and our fictitious free will for salvation.
Predestination is a Biblical word.
Yes, Greek proorizó, predetermine, preordain. Strong number 4309. E.g. Rom 8:29.
Predestination. God is omniscient.
He knows the end from the beginning. He knows who will come to him because we have free will. Jesus seeks and saves The Lost that belong to him.
In matters of salvation, our wills are bound, not free:
grace-ebooks.com/library/Martin%20Luther/ML_Bondage_Of_The_Will.pdf
Well, if you think we have free will, in the sense that we can choose God, then you're on unbiblical grounds.
@@karinlofgren6359 if we don't have free will how did the fall happen?
@@karinlofgren6359 Of course you do
@@soundimpact4633 They are referring to the Total Corruption/Total Depravity idea. That is, *because* of the fall we are so full of sin that we can't choose God without him calling us.
Books and books and books and books and books and books and books. Eat the True Bread Of Christ.
Unfortunately I couldn't get myself to watch this video
@@markbraco7593 So you're commenting in ignorance...
If you, while reading the Bible, start to write what you think it says, then, here it is one more book about the Bible and its teachings. To say ''books, books, books, eat etc'' you simply reveal your self-centered way of approaching the Bible and an anti-intellectualism not beautiful at all. Christianity is a religion of books, you like it or not. But, the right question is this ''what books are the best?''. Answer = plenty of them. I propose to you to start with the lutheran Book of Concord.