another point about the chain drive, is you can change the gearing of the bike for not much money and quickly, gear it for the highway riding or gear it for steep hills while offroad riding. i noramally keep at least 2 sets of chain and sprockets so i can adjust to the type of ride i have planned
Motorcycle Adventures , Can you review and compare a belt drive motorcycle as well? With an enclosed fiberglass body to protect the belt from gravel, etc, I found a CV belt drive to be dependable and long lasting.
I don't have my personal experience with it, but what I know is that they are not good for off road riding. The dust, the stones and the sand could very easy destroy the belt, so I don't think that this is a good solution for an adventure motorcycle.
@@motorcycleadventures Very good point but only valid for those few who ride a big 450 pound 800 CC adventure bike in sand and stones. I do not. I ride 95 percent of my miles on pavement. That leaves me with 5 percent on modest dirt and I NEVER ride in sand. For some of us a belt system would be just fine and the benefit is that we would never have to deal with a chain which has oil on it which grabs hold of sand and all other kinds of dirt. Every had to fix a flat on the road, I have. Try to do it without touching a disgusting chain when by mistake you forgot to throw a pair of gloves in the repair kit. Chains are bad news for many many of us. This is not one size fits all, yet some of us are being forced to ride shit which does not suit our needs. WE NEED OPTIONS. If a belt will work on 25 million Harleys, and a shaft will work for 25 million BMW riders they can both work for many of us who want a shaft or belt on an 800 cc bike like a KTM, Tiger, Tenera, BMW 750/80, Africa Twin. No more chains for me. I will never clean a chain again. If I need to work on a bike and the job requires me to touch the chain, it goes in the trash and a new chain goes on. I will never touch or clean a chain again I will run it till it and the front cog need to be replace. I will then pressure wash it all down, install a new clean chain and cog.
Once upon a time, (long, long ago) there was a third option - fully enclosed chain drive. The chain is protected from sand, dust, mud, dirt, water, etc. Makes chain last almost forever without increasing the un-sprung mass of the machine as a shaft drive does. It was a common feature on small commuter bikes but was also used on Yamaha 1000cc TR1 (before Yamaha went crazy for shaft drive). It was also on my 350cc Jawa 640R and that bike went from UK to Poland several times on one chain :-) I really wish motorcycle manufacturers would fit fully enclosed chain drive to modern adventure bikes intended for long distance touring.
This video is valuable because it’s focused on the relationship between bike, rider, and how/where the bike and rider actually ride. As a very experienced rider (over fifty years, well over 500 000 kilometers, owned many bikes) I wish I had of attended more to purpose than specifications and aesthetics. Motorcycle as fashion statement is a trap most of us suffer; hubris is a hungry beast that’s only satisfying until the next new ‘n shiny thing rolls along. But, as far as “adventure” bikes are concerned, this advice may be helpful: Take the bike you own off its stand, let it fall over - preferably on pavement. If you can lift it up without a sense of panic or grief, it’s an indicator you’ve got the right bike.
Good point Pavlin about the ease of emergency repairs to chain set up. Reminded me of a Triumph shaft drive owner who suffered drive hub/bearing failure while a long way from home. Adventure tour ended then and there as bike had to be recovered back to UK. I also had an oil seal failure that leaked the drive unit oil all over the rear wheel. Somewhat balances the debate, many thanks!
Even if the funds are there, it is a pain in the ass; under circumstances dangerous as it does not pay to become stranded in many, many places on the globe.
Great video! It suddenly occurred to me that seasoned adventure riders (I include myself in this group) have long since found what works for them. My 21" front rim works for me as long as I know I have to sacrifice speed and give up a little bit of handling on the pavement. Everything we do or change comes with compromise and it is next to impossible to know what compromises one is willing to concede to without trying different options to see for ones self. Videos like yours are very good in pointing people in the right direction but at the end of the day if they don't experience the failures it's hard to find the solutions.
The BMW R 850 G/S from 1980,has 21 inch frontwheel,ordinary front susspension,cross fenders,shaftdrive,winn Paris Dakar rally and never brake down.Have nothig fancy or modern gadget but was a good maded motorcycle!Many of these running even today without any technical problem!
My BMW HP2 Enduro has great suspension, 21" front wheel, and a shaft drive, but I agree that it is not the average adventure bike. Whatever people say, chain are simpler, light, but much more maintenance (but are much easier to fix if you have the right tools, and a spare chain). Shaft are heavier, if broken much more expensive to fix, but maintenance is once a year. Mine has done many real off-road miles in Alaska, Yukon, Nunavut, Labrador, and northern Canada, and has 110,000km without issue. But I do have rock protection (bumpers) on it. Distances are huge in Canada and America, so personally I prefer a drive shaft because we sometime have to ride up to 5,000km to get to the off-road portion of the trip. But a good o-ring chain is certainly a viable option.
As usual very good and wise content! There actually are bikes with shaft drive and 21 inch wheel but just like Pavlin said they are very rare: BMW R80GS, BMW R100GS, Honda XLV750, Moto Guzzi Quota, etc. As an owner of an R100GS i totally agree that these are really heavy bikes to do serious off road riding and the last thing you would want is a bearing, final drive, shaft u-joints to go bad in the middle of nowhere. So i would say the best choice is still chain with just some basic rules: - Its best that the bike has chain adjustment by washers in the shape of a shell just like on a XT600, TT600E, DR650, XR650L - its very fast and easy to adjust the slack of the chain instead of bolts on each side - A good chain guide in the bottom of the rear fork which holds the chain in place from both sides is preffered. (we had chains fall off KLR, XT600 tenere, due to not having one) - You can always change the habbit of your bike by changing sprockets and for example if you have shell shaped adjustment washers, you can have 2 front sprockets, and easy to change for example if you ride your bike mostly off road on weekends but decide to go do a longer trip some other day - What is also interesting we have chinese chains for sale in shops which sell bearings etc, which cost twice as less than known brand chains but experience shows they last as much as those made by cool brands with only the benefit is that you have to adjust them more often in the beggining.
I’ve had bikes with both. Currently I have a chain drive on my 1290SA, and I do NO MAINTENANCE. I’ve done 84,000 km on the original chain and sprockets. I fitted a pro-oiler that has an electronic pump to deliver engine oil to the rear sprocket based on distance travelled by using GPS signal. The oil lubricates, but is also sacrificial and flings off any dirt because unlike chain lube it is not sticky. I’ve only adjusted the tension once, and Ive never cleaned it, even after doing tens of thousands km offroad.
For a great highway bike I prefer a shaft but for more technical and serious off road then a chain is obvious for me. Like you said, a 21" front wheel and chain goes together. The GSA and Tigers are a special breed.
Hiya Pavlin......another great video as usual. 👍 For me when I am on pure smooth tarmac for a fast tour across Europe I prefer my shaft drive bike, when I am touring on dirt/tarmac roads I prefer my chain drive bike for exactly the reasons you say. But whichever bike I am on I love every minute of my trips. Happy riding!!!!
Hi Pavlin - another great video. I love the pragmatic approach. I agree with what you say - I watch your videos and dream about making the adventures you make. In reality, I drive 130km to and from work on German Autobahns during the week and, when I get time, take a tour through Germany or down to Austria. Off road to me means going into a car park or down a dirt track to another car park ;-) I used to have an 800cc with a chain. For my riding it was a nightmare - I didn't want to install an auto oiler so I felt I was constantly oiling and cleaning the chain. So I upgraded to a 1200GS with a shaft drive: as you say - perfect for what I do. I guess the best choice is to have two motorbikes: one smaller and lighter with a chain and one for the motorways with a shaft. But, for me, it's either one motorbike and a wife or two motorbike's and no wife ;-) Keep the video's coming - I love living vicariously through you!
As always, spot on accurate,concise, and precise information any adv rider could rely on. I will add only a couple of comments:- 1. you didn't mention belts and some might wonder why not? On the highway, they are wonderful and long lasting-off road? well, not so much. Disqualifyerfor me its easy- mud, and changing sprockets to change gearing for highway/autobahn etc. to gearing for more leisurely primitive roads and terrain. You only need to ride any bike with mud (or anything else frankly)between the sprocket and the belt once. nuff said on that point.2. re the shaft drive- I am struggling to remember ANY shaft drive bike I've ever ridden ( lots) that did NOT "pogo" the bike, some more than others. The sudden change in weight distribution/suspension compression etc, can be 'disconcerting' on the road, In the dirt, it can get you in trouble and in gravel or other slippery (muddy terrain) it can make the bike hop around and threaten you with a loss of control. Seer
Hi Pavlin, I have installed a belt system in my GS800, and it works great. It lasts more than 60k km, and requires no maintenance. I have crossed the Brazilian Amazon, Bolivia and Patagonia without any problems. Maybe it would be a third option to your 2 systems? Best, Henrique, Brasilia, Brazil
A lot of people end up carrying spare sprockets and chain. My next setup will use belt and will carry sprockets for mud. A good chain can be hard to find sometimes, however.
Hi mate Tony here from Australia I have only seen very early belt setups on Harley bikes and was not very impressed as they seemed unable to cope with mud especially Given the travels you mentioned I take it you found something better Will it cope with mud clay and deep sand, I use my bike on hard 4WD tracks mainly Cheers Tony
I love when motorcycle enthusiasts bring up the fact that vehicles in other countries can be very different and shipping takes forever. One of my dreams (besides a coast to coast) is to ride from Germany to South Korea and make month long stops in chezia, Slovakia, Ukraine, russia, and Mongolia. I might decide to live In one of these places but I would probably head to Norway or Switzerland if I wanted to stay.
DRZ400E, Klr 650, 2013 GS1200 in the shed. BMW great to ride but if it breaks in the middle of nowhere you are in expensive trouble. Trading up to an Africa twin to replace the lot.
Very good info Pavelin. I was put off shaft drive, particularly single swing arm when I saw some photos of where they broke in half on a BMW GS And where the main bearing went on a triumph explorer making the back wheel very loose. I think the chain is a much safer option and you can go anywhere with a chain which is easy to fix or replace.
I started with chain drive (Honda, Harley-D), yearned for shaft (went through 3 BMWs), and now want a smaller bike with chain -- probably a Versys-X 300!
Check also new Honda CB500X. It comes with 19 inch front wheel and I think you will appreciate extra 170 cc (total 471cc). Versys is great bike but, I've seen people struggling in high wind. Gas efficiency is very close. I consistently get 65 mpg on my Honda.
@@hillie47 I was going to say that you must be riding too fast if you drink too much gas :-) Anything over 65 mph on that bike is lil too much. I mean, it will go over 100 mph and cruise at 75 but, I don't think it was made for that kind of riding. Most comfy ride for me is in 50-60 range. It is also tempting to run it like hooligan in lower gears which is bad for gas and put lots of stress on machine.
Pavlin, kudos to you my friend, in this video you just blew every other bullshit UA-cam video trying to address this topic out of the water with your clear, concise and no-nonsense description of the differences between shaft & chain drive systems and the way in which it directly applies to the type of rider they suit. Thank you! I haven't commented before but given how this is my first time doing so on your channel I just want to say how much of a fan I am of the content you produce & that I wish you all the success you deserve for bringing such quality content to us with a unique perspective we dont find anywhere else! All the best man be safe.
Cleaning and adjusting the chain is no big deal! I enjoy working on my bike! I ride mainly on paved roads here in the USA, it's nice to be able to go down dirt roads on my KTM. I personally want to get a dirt bike to do trail riding! Another great video! Thank you!
In the past i've had at least two shaft motorcycles, however they were big road tourers. If you're riding on paved roads, shaft transmission works very well and is something to not worry about. However, from a true adventure perspective, sometimes you need to go beyond paved roads, and in that case i fully subscribe your opinion on chain drive. Nice work, very objective video.
In 29 years of riding Off road motorbikes I have had 1 yes ONE chain snap . Its really no hardship to oil it / clean it . Adjust it is very easy . I haven't ever had a bike with a shaft so cant comment on them
I have had all kinds of final drives. Gear drive on a 650 Burgman, shaft drive on a tourer and belt drive on a naked bike. All these final drives are smoother than a chain, clean and relatively low maintenance. I don't do any serious offroading, but for my adventure motorcycles, I do prefer a chain. The bikes are lighter, and repairs on the bike and tyres are more straightforward.
Really enjoy the down to earth and simplistic views that you put forward. Very informative and entertaining. Thanks mate, appreciate it. Greetings from Australia.
Alright, another to-the-point and clearly understood video. Hey, Pavlin, I read in a comment on a previous video that you're from Bulgaria but living in Germany. Now there's a migration combination. I had a student from Sofia, Bulgaria in the ESL (English as a Second Language) class I taught after I retired from the design profession. His English pronunciation could not compare with your enunciation which is very accomplished. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the bike dealer to tell me the 2019 Himalayan has arrived here in ATL for me to have a look at. If the paint even has a whiff of being substandard (as seen in your previous video) I'll have no hesitation in passing on purchasing it. OK for now-наздраве!
Well Richard I don't want to break your wings, but I will advice you to stay away from this model or at least keep in mind that it is not going to last the miles you think it will. Thanks for watching the video and Наздраве!
Well the chain on my 650 V-Strom is looking like it might soon need adjusting, for the first time, at 25000 km. Both sprockets still look new. Home made oiler and one drop off olive oil per minute.
Keep in mind that shiny chain it doesn't mean that it has the need it specs. Oil or not the sprockets are wearing and the chain need adjustment. The factory grease inside is what keep it in good condition, not the oil outside.
@@motorcycleadventures inspection revele the weare, but l have had chain roling 30000km with ease, an chain that was done afther 13000km. Some brands do hold longer in my experianse, but inline 4 engiens are kinder to a chain the a single cylinder ore a Vtwin engiens. Also gravel, sand and mud riding kill a chain faster the pure road riding do.
@@motorcycleadventures I inspect the chain about every 750 km. It's at 40mm slack measured in the centre of the chain, as per the manual. The suggested is 20-30mm, which is why I say it needs its first adjustment. All the orings are there, no cracks, no binding links. The sproket teeth are symmetrical and look new.
I have to be honest and say I've been really tempted to buy something that's shaft drive as I grow tired of maintaining (clean, lube and adjusting) the chain on my bike, not to mention replacement sprockets. However after watching and listening to the valid points you made I will be sticking with chain 😁at least for the time being.
I had the same problem, I recommend a chain oiler. (A manual one where you just squirt some oil onto the chain by hand) It makes a chain kind-of drive maintenance-free like a direct drive and the chain will last longer too. See my comment further up for details.
Great informative vid again Pavlin. I am old school and think that if you have an adventure bike, and by the way I hate that term, the simpler the bike is the better it is. Ease of maintainance is number one in my book, something I do not have to keep taking to a dealers for a service, something that can be repaired easily without special tools and access to most parts without the need to pull half the bike apart. I have always had chain drive bikes and lubing the chain takes less than a minute so no big drama and to carry a front and rear sprocket takes up very little space, and like you said, you can find a chain anywhere.
Chain drive all the way! If you take care of your chain it will last many miles. I just rolled over 40,000 miles on the chain and sprockets that came on the bike when it was new. The chain ware indicator shows 50% so i could expect to get anothe 40,000 out of it. If the drive ratio is not exactly what you want or need you can easily swap out sprockets and fine tune it to your needs. With a shaft drive system you can't change it at all, you live with what the factory "thinks" you need. Tire changing is also much easier with a chain drive system with through hub axles.
In my opinion drive shaft is best in dust or in smooth roads.. You know it well in drive shaft two oil seals used to fix on both sides one with gear box and in tail with pinion box... It does,t matter weather its dust rain rocks sand or water.. No need of greasing no need of Wd 40 and adjustment or alignment... I am doing the business of auto parts of japanese trucks since 1995 and my experience insist me to explain it that in dusty or rocky mountains or in deep water driving shaft is more reliable then chain sprockets.
True, but also more likely to break because it's own weight. The weight also limits the possible riding terrains. That's why all off road motorcycles have chains.
Ah sorry Pavlin but I have to stop watching the video and inform you that my 2011 R1200GSA does in fact have a 21" front wheel & 17" rear wheel and of course it has the driveshaft. The custom wheels are from Woody's Wheel Works and this particular setup is what I use for off road bias. Back to the show now LOL
You haven't done it enough. Scraping out congealed lube from behind the sprocket, repeatedly degreasing the sprocket cleaning all the garage floor after the mess it makes. I dont need it. Adjusting it in the pouring rain trying to see the alignment marks on the pitch black. Nah been there too many times. I'll take the Moto Guzzi Thanks.
I've always thought of Drive shafts as a "Highway Mans" choice, for those who tour on the highways of western countries only. While the chain is sort of an all around choice. You can always bring an extra chain if you're going into the unknown. And it can handle just about anything if you maintain it properly.
Chain is more efficient power transfer than belt or shaft which helps performance of smaller/cheaper engines (also high end sport ones). It is initially cheaper for manufacturer to implement chain but, the cost is passed down the line to consumer. I don't have experience to compare but, if you have to change chain and sprockets every 10k miles (especially if you pay shop to do it) it adds up over time. Then you spend money for chain cleaner and lube in between which can add another $50-$100 over life of chain. Belt last 3-4 times longer than chain and is also safer if breaks. Shaft theoretically can last the life of machine. It has lowest power transfer, longest life and cheapest maintenance. Go figure.
Totally right about it depending on the rider. I hate chain drive because of the need for constant cleaning and maintenance, but I don’t care for off road adventures. If I was going to do off road, I’d want light and something simple to fix on the road. I’ve debated a trip to Alaska...going The the northern most point in the USA (Arctic Ocean). The road’s been traveled by all kinds of motorcycles, but I’d be seriously tempted to rent one locally and pay the extra coverage in case it breaks down beyond the Arctic Circle. Why risk my personal bike when a rental more suited to the task can be had?
On the road I would choose shaft drive. If I was going to do off-roading mixed with on road, then chain drive is the way to go. Shaft drives are great, but can leave you stranded and be expensive to fix. Lack of maintenance from the owner is the biggest problem with shaft drive, as it hides up and coming problems until it is too late!
Honda XLV750 from years ago has 21 inch and shaft. Sort of Africa Twin variant. Suggestion. Rather than use a fixed rivet link how about a u shaped spring clip? Easy to get chain off to clean or for other maintenance. I always carry a spare spring link in case of roadside repairs. A tutoro chain oiler keeps the chain lubed with hardly any effort. Best turned off when off road or mixes with dirt and makes grinding paste to destroy the chain. Whatever you choose, happy travels.
I wish your honest, no-nonsense advice was available for non-adventure type riding as well. I really like your helpful approach, but I don't do off-road riding. If you can suggest a UA-cam channel for street riders, I would be grateful. Thank you!
Great video as always. I put a Scottoiler on my Yamaha Fazer 600 2 years ago, so I don^t have to spray it. It needs some time to know the right setting for hot weather, rain etc. but once you have it, it is really nice. You don^t have to clean the chain anymore and the bottle of the oil lasts forever. Although I have only little experience on dirt roads with it.
The big problem with shaft drive bikes is that the shaft is enclosed within the swing arm, which makes it difficult to determine the wear on the gearbox and diff spines as well as the uni-joints, unless you strip down the bike, easy enough if you are mechanically minded or even a mechanic, a chain is easy to visually see the wear on the sprockets and chain, easy to replace and cheap to maintain. Also the type of chain is important, you need to get a chain that matches the bike power rating and size, always use a high quality O ring chain.
Pavlin, it would be interesting to hear your take on the belt driven motorcycles available on the market. Many thanks for your sound advice through your experience. Kindest regards. Joe.
I've seen belts, chains, and driveshafts. I've rode chain and belt drives. No experience with drive shaft. I figured chains last longer then belts but are harder to change. Belts wear out quicker but are easier then chains to change. I may be wrong. Just what I've been told. Was always curious about the shaft drives...drive shafts... So they are not the way to go if you ride a lot and everywhere basically?
Belts last longer than chain, but they are not good for off road, difficult to change, need to remove the swing arm. Drive shafts last longer than belt and chains, but not really a proper for off road. The chain is more or less universal.
I love supersport bikes, therefore I'm a pro-chain. Yes, chain requires cleaning, lubrication, but, when it breaks down, is so easy to replace, while a shaft is not so easy.
Hi Pavlin, maybe you can answer this question: What do you do with your gear and luggage when you want to stop for sightseeing in a city when you dont have hard cases. How do you make sure nothing gets stolen, especially in bigger cities? Thanks! And one more thing about chain/driveshaft: I can recommend manual chain oilers. They have a reservoir from which you can manually squirt oil onto the chain whenever its necessary. I have a cobrra nemo 2 and I love this system because its very comfortable, you dont need to clean the chain anymore and the chain should also last longer. Continuous oil flow from an automatic chain oiler such as scottoiler is probably better, but they either dont work very well or are very very expensive.
Hi there, thanks for taking the time and watching the videos! When I stopped for sightseeing it is usually when I finish the riding day, which is mean that I am already in a hotel, hostel or camping. The park will be parked safe and I will go around with normal everyday clothes. If for any case I have to do it during the day, just leave the bike in front of hotel, coffee, bank, shop or people. Take my tank bag, which is with most important things. I usually lock my helmet on the bike with simple cable lock.
About the oillers... I am not a big fan of it, but many love it and use it. The life of the chain depends from the factory grease inside of the pins. Outside oil cannot help much. Yes, it keeps the chain nice and clean, but it doesn't mean that it is not worn. As I said to change the chain once per 20,000km is fine for me. Many people stated that they got 30,40,50,000km because of the oilers, but if you need to adjust the chain number of times, during that period, you have to understand that it is already worn out. Yes, it will looks like new, but it is not. The chain never stretch, the sprockets and the rollers are worn out and this make the illusion that the chain is stretched. So to have the oiler is not a priority for me at all. The important is to ride, not to worry about the replaceable parts of the bike. I hope it is clear now.
About the oilers: To my understanding, the oil will keep the O/X - Rings lubricated so they stay intact and keep the factory grease inside. If the factory grease would be enough, it would not be necessary to lubricate the chain at all. Besides that, the dirt that sticks to the chain acts as an abrasive and lets both the chain but also the sprockets wear faster. Having to clean and oil the chain is in my opinion the only real downside of having a chain drive. It has to be done regularly, preferably after riding so it doesn't fly off. Especially when riding in dusty environments like we usually do, cleaning is important as well because the normal chain grease is very sticky and attracts dirt, and its a very dirty job as well. With a chain oiler all these problems are solved, because its loss lubrication, so dirt will be washed off by the oil. No need to touch the chain anymore and it will also last longer. For me the main reason for a chain oiler is that I have one less thing to think about during a trip, but also when commuting. The longer lifespan of a chain is a nice benefit, but not the main reason. I also wasn't a big fan of oilers in beginning, because they tend to be very complicated and expensive. The manual ones however are very simple, much cheaper (100€ new) and really have huge benefits, especially for adventure riders because it makes the chain drive practically maintenance - free and there is no reason for a direct drive anymore. The only real downside of a chain oiler is that some oil might fly off the chain and make your bike dirty, but I doubt that any serious adventure rider would care about that :)
@@motorcycleadventures Hey dude. I am thinking of getting a Honda Dominator NX650 again. My biggest mistake was getting rid of my other one that time. Do you know where I can get a decent maintained Dominator from; what equivilant bikes are out there today otherwise? By the way, your videos are excellent. I have travelled the planet on my bike and there is simply no comparison.
As you said, both has pros and cons. For city rides and to almost forget maintenace, shaft drive is awesome like I have in my Honda CBX 650. On the other hand, chain is the preference for off road (or most of the roads in our country 😃). My Lifan KPT with chain drive tackles those very well. What is your opinion about belt drive? Have a nice day.
I am not a fan on it, but many use it. The life of the chain depends from the factory grease inside, not from the oil outside. It's only prevent rusting.
On target any bike with a drive shaft are all big and heavy so it doesn't make sense for me on or off road. Chains allow me to easily chain the gearing to dial in higher or lower gearing for what I am doing. Bigger, heavier, high technology and expensive bikes seem to appeal more to the ego than they do to actual riding.
Same story for me! Chain is better ! My Africa twin 1000 cc I like to take off road often! Chain in this case much better! Hey when you will buy new tenere 700! ???
Do you ever see dirt-bikes with drive shafts? I'm totally new to this field but we have a lot of guys around here in the villages with them and they're all chain drives. To me that says a chain is probably better for off-roading in general, otherwise manufacturers would be throwing shaft-driven versions at us all the time.
The best of both worlds is a fully enclosed chain. My Yamahas and suzukis never got better than 30.000k out of a chain but my ETZ250 got 128.000k out of the first chain. Why is this system only available on low end bikes?
Well, you are overlooking a major point. First I do all the work on my bike. Second, I don't give a shit about performance. Now the big issue. If I live for another 100 years, that last and I repeat, that last thing I ever want to do is touch a bike chain. They are disgusting. I don't clean bike chains. If I am forced for any reason to deal with a bike chain, it goes in the trash. I will never clean a chain, it goes in the trash and I will install a new one. When it comes time to clean a chain, it comes off, does not get cleaned and it goes to the dump. I want just one of the adventure twins to offer a shaft. The first one that comes along and I buy it. Again I HATE CHAINS and I am never cleaning another chain again EVER! CHAINS SUCK.
Point is to have things under control or at least monitor it. U see how chain is wear off, same with tires, tooths on sprockets, battery capacity, amount of oil etc. With "blackboxes" it is not so easy as noone see inside how they go after hard usage. So it is hard to plan maintainence on the trip, traveled distance is not reliable measurment for this kind of components
Pavlin, do you know why we *really* are interested in gear and motorcycle choice so much? Because buying things is the easiest thing to check off the list for an adventure...
No, because it has number of broken drive shafts. It is a wrong conceptions. BMW never had a problem to sell their innovative technologies, but with this bike they target the wrong audience. Dirt bike riders wants light and practical bikes, GS owners don'r really ride off road, unless they have to - simple!
If someone wants to travel from Pakistan to Europe what will u suggest drive shaft or chain ? As mostly will be on ashphalt road .. and what bike u will suggest for a tall guy like 190 CM
You can do it without any problems with both. The bike choice is a personal thing. You definitely need high adventure bike and the options are not many. KTM 1090, 1190 or Yamaha like mine. The rest are two low.
@@motorcycleadventures thank you so much yes thats the problem i am a tall guy as u too always say and i am more taller than u so i need a high bike and yours one is already in my list
There is not a fair comparison between bmw and KTM.. BMW big GS'es has other construction philosophy - suspension (paralleverre/teleleverer)+boxer engine+shaft drive+no frame solution+low center of gravity... so not only shaft drive matter. KTM is more like traditional motorcycle construction... BMW with shaft drive is more like exception to confirm rule that only chain the best for offroad..because not many shaft driven adventurers/offroaders available in the market... if compare traditional manufacturer with shaft drive, there is rear model honda XLV750R (1983-1986) was Honda's first dual-sport motorcycle with two non-parallel cylinders. It has an air-/oil-cooled V-twin engine with hydraulic valve tappets and a shaft drive, but it was too heavy for ParisDakar (comparing to other 600cc), despite absence of water cooling... Small advantage of bmw'sshaft drive - tyre change looks easier is in it? also for bmw owners 21" inch front wheel conversion is available if prays and 19inc wheels not enought for offroad...
mnogu golem pozdrav od london if you going to trip to Scotland and passing from london will be pleasure to meet you and of course launch or diner in best Turkish restaurant .I have gs1200 adventure and in 1of may a will go to Tajikistan and back so any tips from you will be welcome
21" front wheel... Let me look it up... No: »110/80-19 front and 150/70-17 back« - even the new Moto Guzzi V85 TT does not match. ;) Thanks for your point of view but to be honest: I think the biggest adventures for the most motorcycles (and their riders) will be the trip to the next town, the stop at the ice cream parlor or getting in the rain. Plus for the shaft drive: No need to clean after those adventures trips. :D One more point about the shaft drive: The bikes cost usually more when you buy them. More for the money: Chain drive. Greetings from a shaft drive user. ;)
Ho forgot the belt....hummm Have you ever tryed to remove the swinging arm from a bike? .. With mono shock springs ect ....well when you have just to change a belt drive then we will see if you still love them!!
My opinion is that the chain is more versatile and suitable for real adventure. My V-Strom 650 is on the top of the scale (my opinion) regarding the weight needed for comfort on the motorway versus off road. I saw that without being on real of road, there were situations when it was in difficulty due to the bike weight. So yes I truly support the less weight and simple to fix mechanics rather than a "tank" like bike that need a bodybuilder physique along with a big bank account. Even then, what are you doing while stuck in the middle of nowhere? (rhetorical question)
As usual great video, one technical aspect I would like to point out here about the loss of engine / crankshaft power to the rear wheel. In Shaft drive the losses are upto 30 - 33% , In Chain drive around 10 - 14 % and with the belt drive about 5 %.
The Essential Guide to Any Motorcycle Traveler - Online Course: rtw-adventures.com/online-course-1.html
another point about the chain drive, is you can change the gearing of the bike for not much money and quickly, gear it for the highway riding or gear it for steep hills while offroad riding. i noramally keep at least 2 sets of chain and sprockets so i can adjust to the type of ride i have planned
Motorcycle Adventures , Can you review and compare a belt drive motorcycle as well?
With an enclosed fiberglass body to protect the belt from gravel, etc, I found a CV belt drive to be dependable and long lasting.
I don't have my personal experience with it, but what I know is that they are not good for off road riding. The dust, the stones and the sand could very easy destroy the belt, so I don't think that this is a good solution for an adventure motorcycle.
@@motorcycleadventures Very good point but only valid for those few who ride a big 450 pound 800 CC adventure bike in sand and stones. I do not. I ride 95 percent of my miles on pavement. That leaves me with 5 percent on modest dirt and I NEVER ride in sand. For some of us a belt system would be just fine and the benefit is that we would never have to deal with a chain which has oil on it which grabs hold of sand and all other kinds of dirt. Every had to fix a flat on the road, I have. Try to do it without touching a disgusting chain when by mistake you forgot to throw a pair of gloves in the repair kit. Chains are bad news for many many of us. This is not one size fits all, yet some of us are being forced to ride shit which does not suit our needs. WE NEED OPTIONS. If a belt will work on 25 million Harleys, and a shaft will work for 25 million BMW riders they can both work for many of us who want a shaft or belt on an 800 cc bike like a KTM, Tiger, Tenera, BMW 750/80, Africa Twin. No more chains for me. I will never clean a chain again. If I need to work on a bike and the job requires me to touch the chain, it goes in the trash and a new chain goes on. I will never touch or clean a chain again I will run it till it and the front cog need to be replace. I will then pressure wash it all down, install a new clean chain and cog.
Congradulations on 100k sub!
Once upon a time, (long, long ago) there was a third option - fully enclosed chain drive.
The chain is protected from sand, dust, mud, dirt, water, etc. Makes chain last almost forever without increasing the un-sprung mass of the machine as a shaft drive does.
It was a common feature on small commuter bikes but was also used on Yamaha 1000cc TR1 (before Yamaha went crazy for shaft drive). It was also on my 350cc Jawa 640R and that bike went from UK to Poland several times on one chain :-)
I really wish motorcycle manufacturers would fit fully enclosed chain drive to modern adventure bikes intended for long distance touring.
This video is valuable because it’s focused on the relationship between bike, rider, and how/where the bike and rider actually ride. As a very experienced rider (over fifty years, well over 500 000 kilometers, owned many bikes) I wish I had of attended more to purpose than specifications and aesthetics. Motorcycle as fashion statement is a trap most of us suffer; hubris is a hungry beast that’s only satisfying until the next new ‘n shiny thing rolls along. But, as far as “adventure” bikes are concerned, this advice may be helpful: Take the bike you own off its stand, let it fall over - preferably on pavement. If you can lift it up without a sense of panic or grief, it’s an indicator you’ve got the right bike.
Your knowledge for being simple is very awsome.. Its the special thing that i always like about you..
Thank you palvin
You are welcome anytime!
Good point Pavlin about the ease of emergency repairs to chain set up. Reminded me of a Triumph shaft drive owner who suffered drive hub/bearing failure while a long way from home. Adventure tour ended then and there as bike had to be recovered back to UK. I also had an oil seal failure that leaked the drive unit oil all over the rear wheel. Somewhat balances the debate, many thanks!
Learned the hard way! Sorry to her that Ray! Must have been terrible experience to stop for such a sully problem.
@@motorcycleadventures Drive shaft is really great.......till it goes wrong. My BMW K100RS suffered a catastrophic drive failure as a result.
Even if the funds are there, it is a pain in the ass; under circumstances dangerous as it does not pay to become stranded in many, many places on the globe.
Great video!
It suddenly occurred to me that seasoned adventure riders (I include myself in this group) have long since found what works for them. My 21" front rim works for me as long as I know I have to sacrifice speed and give up a little bit of handling on the pavement. Everything we do or change comes with compromise and it is next to impossible to know what compromises one is willing to concede to without trying different options to see for ones self. Videos like yours are very good in pointing people in the right direction but at the end of the day if they don't experience the failures it's hard to find the solutions.
Agree
The BMW R 850 G/S from 1980,has 21 inch frontwheel,ordinary front susspension,cross fenders,shaftdrive,winn Paris Dakar rally and never brake down.Have nothig fancy or modern gadget but was a good maded motorcycle!Many of these running even today without any technical problem!
My BMW HP2 Enduro has great suspension, 21" front wheel, and a shaft drive, but I agree that it is not the average adventure bike. Whatever people say, chain are simpler, light, but much more maintenance (but are much easier to fix if you have the right tools, and a spare chain). Shaft are heavier, if broken much more expensive to fix, but maintenance is once a year. Mine has done many real off-road miles in Alaska, Yukon, Nunavut, Labrador, and northern Canada, and has 110,000km without issue. But I do have rock protection (bumpers) on it. Distances are huge in Canada and America, so personally I prefer a drive shaft because we sometime have to ride up to 5,000km to get to the off-road portion of the trip. But a good o-ring chain is certainly a viable option.
As usual very good and wise content! There actually are bikes with shaft drive and 21 inch wheel but just like Pavlin said they are very rare: BMW R80GS, BMW R100GS, Honda XLV750, Moto Guzzi Quota, etc. As an owner of an R100GS i totally agree that these are really heavy bikes to do serious off road riding and the last thing you would want is a bearing, final drive, shaft u-joints to go bad in the middle of nowhere.
So i would say the best choice is still chain with just some basic rules:
- Its best that the bike has chain adjustment by washers in the shape of a shell just like on a XT600, TT600E, DR650, XR650L - its very fast and easy to adjust the slack of the chain instead of bolts on each side
- A good chain guide in the bottom of the rear fork which holds the chain in place from both sides is preffered. (we had chains fall off KLR, XT600 tenere, due to not having one)
- You can always change the habbit of your bike by changing sprockets and for example if you have shell shaped adjustment washers, you can have 2 front sprockets, and easy to change for example if you ride your bike mostly off road on weekends but decide to go do a longer trip some other day
- What is also interesting we have chinese chains for sale in shops which sell bearings etc, which cost twice as less than known brand chains but experience shows they last as much as those made by cool brands with only the benefit is that you have to adjust them more often in the beggining.
I’ve had bikes with both. Currently I have a chain drive on my 1290SA, and I do NO MAINTENANCE. I’ve done 84,000 km on the original chain and sprockets. I fitted a pro-oiler that has an electronic pump to deliver engine oil to the rear sprocket based on distance travelled by using GPS signal. The oil lubricates, but is also sacrificial and flings off any dirt because unlike chain lube it is not sticky. I’ve only adjusted the tension once, and Ive never cleaned it, even after doing tens of thousands km offroad.
down to earth and on point as usual :) thank you Pavlin, and keep up the good work!
I will, thanks Daniel!
For a great highway bike I prefer a shaft but for more technical and serious off road then a chain is obvious for me. Like you said, a 21" front wheel and chain goes together.
The GSA and Tigers are a special breed.
Agree
Hiya Pavlin......another great video as usual. 👍 For me when I am on pure smooth tarmac for a fast tour across Europe I prefer my shaft drive bike, when I am touring on dirt/tarmac roads I prefer my chain drive bike for exactly the reasons you say.
But whichever bike I am on I love every minute of my trips. Happy riding!!!!
Exactly Colin! Each system has a purpose.
Hi Pavlin - another great video. I love the pragmatic approach. I agree with what you say - I watch your videos and dream about making the adventures you make. In reality, I drive 130km to and from work on German Autobahns during the week and, when I get time, take a tour through Germany or down to Austria. Off road to me means going into a car park or down a dirt track to another car park ;-) I used to have an 800cc with a chain. For my riding it was a nightmare - I didn't want to install an auto oiler so I felt I was constantly oiling and cleaning the chain. So I upgraded to a 1200GS with a shaft drive: as you say - perfect for what I do. I guess the best choice is to have two motorbikes: one smaller and lighter with a chain and one for the motorways with a shaft. But, for me, it's either one motorbike and a wife or two motorbike's and no wife ;-) Keep the video's coming - I love living vicariously through you!
The point Colin is to use what is the best for you and I think that you do it absolutely right.
As always, spot on accurate,concise, and precise information any adv rider could rely on. I will add only a couple of comments:- 1. you didn't mention belts and some might wonder why not? On the highway, they are wonderful and long lasting-off road? well, not so much. Disqualifyerfor me its easy- mud, and changing sprockets to change gearing for highway/autobahn etc. to gearing for more leisurely primitive roads and terrain. You only need to ride any bike with mud (or anything else frankly)between the sprocket and the belt once. nuff said on that point.2. re the shaft drive- I am struggling to remember ANY shaft drive bike I've ever ridden ( lots) that did NOT "pogo" the bike, some more than others. The sudden change in weight distribution/suspension compression etc, can be 'disconcerting' on the road, In the dirt, it can get you in trouble and in gravel or other slippery (muddy terrain) it can make the bike hop around and threaten you with a loss of control. Seer
The belts are not a solution for adventure bike. Dust, stones, mud or sand could destroy it very fast.
Once again Pavlin, the knowledge you share is excellent. Thanks.
Thank you Brian!
Hi Pavlin,
I have installed a belt system in my GS800, and it works great.
It lasts more than 60k km, and requires no maintenance.
I have crossed the Brazilian Amazon, Bolivia and Patagonia without any problems.
Maybe it would be a third option to your 2 systems?
Best,
Henrique, Brasilia, Brazil
Good option, but limited when it comes to dirt roads.
A lot of people end up carrying spare sprockets and chain. My next setup will use belt and will carry sprockets for mud. A good chain can be hard to find sometimes, however.
Motorcycle Adventures
Agree, but chain & sprockets do not warrant lack of troubles in dirt roads. I busted a new chain In the Bolivian gravel...
Hi mate Tony here from Australia
I have only seen very early belt setups on Harley bikes and was not very impressed as they seemed unable to cope with mud especially
Given the travels you mentioned I take it you found something better
Will it cope with mud clay and deep sand,
I use my bike on hard 4WD tracks mainly
Cheers Tony
@@motorcycleadventures I would second that. Belt is best used where there is little travel in the swing arm. Chain is simply the best all round.
I love when motorcycle enthusiasts bring up the fact that vehicles in other countries can be very different and shipping takes forever. One of my dreams (besides a coast to coast) is to ride from Germany to South Korea and make month long stops in chezia, Slovakia, Ukraine, russia, and Mongolia. I might decide to live In one of these places but I would probably head to Norway or Switzerland if I wanted to stay.
Good luck with your dream!
DRZ400E, Klr 650, 2013 GS1200 in the shed. BMW great to ride but if it breaks in the middle of nowhere you are in expensive trouble. Trading up to an Africa twin to replace the lot.
Very good info Pavelin. I was put off shaft drive, particularly single swing arm when I saw some photos of where they broke in half on a BMW GS And where the main bearing went on a triumph explorer making the back wheel very loose. I think the chain is a much safer option and you can go anywhere with a chain which is easy to fix or replace.
True, chain is simple.
I started with chain drive (Honda, Harley-D), yearned for shaft (went through 3 BMWs), and now want a smaller bike with chain -- probably a Versys-X 300!
All the stages... Good luck on your trips!
very good choice ! I have one and is perfect !
Check also new Honda CB500X. It comes with 19 inch front wheel and I think you will appreciate extra 170 cc (total 471cc). Versys is great bike but, I've seen people struggling in high wind. Gas efficiency is very close. I consistently get 65 mpg on my Honda.
@@oknevals i ride a 2013 cb500x but I get nowhere near that mileage. It's a great bike, but not for high speeds. :)
@@hillie47 I was going to say that you must be riding too fast if you drink too much gas :-) Anything over 65 mph on that bike is lil too much. I mean, it will go over 100 mph and cruise at 75 but, I don't think it was made for that kind of riding. Most comfy ride for me is in 50-60 range. It is also tempting to run it like hooligan in lower gears which is bad for gas and put lots of stress on machine.
Great presentation Pavlin.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Glad you liked it!
Pavlin, kudos to you my friend, in this video you just blew every other bullshit UA-cam video trying to address this topic out of the water with your clear, concise and no-nonsense description of the differences between shaft & chain drive systems and the way in which it directly applies to the type of rider they suit.
Thank you!
I haven't commented before but given how this is my first time doing so on your channel I just want to say how much of a fan I am of the content you produce & that I wish you all the success you deserve for bringing such quality content to us with a unique perspective we dont find anywhere else!
All the best man be safe.
Cleaning and adjusting the chain is no big deal! I enjoy working on my bike! I ride mainly on paved roads here in the USA, it's nice to be able to go down dirt roads on my KTM. I personally want to get a dirt bike to do trail riding! Another great video! Thank you!
You are welcome anytime!
In the past i've had at least two shaft motorcycles, however they were big road tourers. If you're riding on paved roads, shaft transmission works very well and is something to not worry about. However, from a true adventure perspective, sometimes you need to go beyond paved roads, and in that case i fully subscribe your opinion on chain drive. Nice work, very objective video.
Thanks for taking the time Paulo!
In 29 years of riding Off road motorbikes I have had 1 yes ONE chain snap .
Its really no hardship to oil it / clean it .
Adjust it is very easy .
I haven't ever had a bike with a shaft so cant comment on them
I have had all kinds of final drives. Gear drive on a 650 Burgman, shaft drive on a tourer and belt drive on a naked bike. All these final drives are smoother than a chain, clean and relatively low maintenance.
I don't do any serious offroading, but for my adventure motorcycles, I do prefer a chain.
The bikes are lighter, and repairs on the bike and tyres are more straightforward.
Agree
Really enjoy the down to earth and simplistic views that you put forward. Very informative and entertaining. Thanks mate, appreciate it. Greetings from Australia.
You are welcome anytime Andrew!
Alright, another to-the-point and clearly understood video. Hey, Pavlin, I read in a comment on a previous video that you're from Bulgaria but living in Germany. Now there's a migration combination. I had a student from Sofia, Bulgaria in the ESL (English as a Second Language) class I taught after I retired from the design profession. His English pronunciation could not compare with your enunciation which is very accomplished. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the bike dealer to tell me the 2019 Himalayan has arrived here in ATL for me to have a look at. If the paint even has a whiff of being substandard (as seen in your previous video) I'll have no hesitation in passing on purchasing it. OK for now-наздраве!
Well Richard I don't want to break your wings, but I will advice you to stay away from this model or at least keep in mind that it is not going to last the miles you think it will. Thanks for watching the video and Наздраве!
I have to say, I have really learned a lot from you. Thank you!
My pleasure!
Well the chain on my 650 V-Strom is looking like it might soon need adjusting, for the first time, at 25000 km. Both sprockets still look new.
Home made oiler and one drop off olive oil per minute.
What brand you have? DID ore some other?
Keep in mind that shiny chain it doesn't mean that it has the need it specs. Oil or not the sprockets are wearing and the chain need adjustment. The factory grease inside is what keep it in good condition, not the oil outside.
@@motorcycleadventures inspection revele the weare, but l have had chain roling 30000km with ease, an chain that was done afther 13000km. Some brands do hold longer in my experianse, but inline 4 engiens are kinder to a chain the a single cylinder ore a Vtwin engiens.
Also gravel, sand and mud riding kill a chain faster the pure road riding do.
@@toby7504 stock V-Strom chain. Olive oil from new.
V-twin engine, about 10% dirt riding, ridden in all weather. So it's had a hard life.
@@motorcycleadventures I inspect the chain about every 750 km. It's at 40mm slack measured in the centre of the chain, as per the manual. The suggested is 20-30mm, which is why I say it needs its first adjustment. All the orings are there, no cracks, no binding links. The sproket teeth are symmetrical and look new.
I have to be honest and say I've been really tempted to buy something that's shaft drive as I grow tired of maintaining (clean, lube and adjusting) the chain on my bike, not to mention replacement sprockets.
However after watching and listening to the valid points you made I will be sticking with chain 😁at least for the time being.
Good decision! Thanks for taking the time and watching the video!
I had the same problem, I recommend a chain oiler. (A manual one where you just squirt some oil onto the chain by hand)
It makes a chain kind-of drive maintenance-free like a direct drive and the chain will last longer too. See my comment further up for details.
Great informative vid again Pavlin.
I am old school and think that if you have an adventure bike, and by the way I hate that term, the simpler the bike is the better it is.
Ease of maintainance is number one in my book, something I do not have to keep taking to a dealers for a service, something that can be repaired easily without special tools and access to most parts without the need to pull half the bike apart.
I have always had chain drive bikes and lubing the chain takes less than a minute so no big drama and to carry a front and rear sprocket takes up very little space, and like you said, you can find a chain anywhere.
Agree on 100%!
Chain drive all the way! If you take care of your chain it will last many miles. I just rolled over 40,000 miles on the chain and sprockets that came on the bike when it was new. The chain ware indicator shows 50% so i could expect to get anothe 40,000 out of it. If the drive ratio is not exactly what you want or need you can easily swap out sprockets and fine tune it to your needs. With a shaft drive system you can't change it at all, you live with what the factory "thinks" you need. Tire changing is also much easier with a chain drive system with through hub axles.
Agree
In my opinion drive shaft is best in dust or in smooth roads.. You know it well in drive shaft two oil seals used to fix on both sides one with gear box and in tail with pinion box... It does,t matter weather its dust rain rocks sand or water.. No need of greasing no need of Wd 40 and adjustment or alignment... I am doing the business of auto parts of japanese trucks since 1995 and my experience insist me to explain it that in dusty or rocky mountains or in deep water driving shaft is more reliable then chain sprockets.
True, but also more likely to break because it's own weight. The weight also limits the possible riding terrains. That's why all off road motorcycles have chains.
I solved the problem. I’ve got one of each. 😀
Lucky you!
Ah sorry Pavlin but I have to stop watching the video and inform you that my 2011 R1200GSA does in fact have a 21" front wheel & 17" rear wheel and of course it has the driveshaft. The custom wheels are from Woody's Wheel Works and this particular setup is what I use for off road bias. Back to the show now LOL
I was not talking for custom wheels, but anyway, good luck on your trips!
I actually agree with you on cleaning the chain. It's not a burden for me, it is actually a pleasure. I love maintaining my bike.
Exactly!
You haven't done it enough. Scraping out congealed lube from behind the sprocket, repeatedly degreasing the sprocket cleaning all the garage floor after the mess it makes. I dont need it. Adjusting it in the pouring rain trying to see the alignment marks on the pitch black. Nah been there too many times. I'll take the Moto Guzzi Thanks.
I've always thought of Drive shafts as a "Highway Mans" choice, for those who tour on the highways of western countries only. While the chain is sort of an all around choice. You can always bring an extra chain if you're going into the unknown. And it can handle just about anything if you maintain it properly.
True
Chain is more efficient power transfer than belt or shaft which helps performance of smaller/cheaper engines (also high end sport ones).
It is initially cheaper for manufacturer to implement chain but, the cost is passed down the line to consumer. I don't have experience to compare but, if you have to change chain and sprockets every 10k miles (especially if you pay shop to do it) it adds up over time. Then you spend money for chain cleaner and lube in between which can add another $50-$100 over life of chain. Belt last 3-4 times longer than chain and is also safer if breaks. Shaft theoretically can last the life of machine. It has lowest power transfer, longest life and cheapest maintenance. Go figure.
Exactly, find what you need and go for it.
Totally right about it depending on the rider. I hate chain drive because of the need for constant cleaning and maintenance, but I don’t care for off road adventures. If I was going to do off road, I’d want light and something simple to fix on the road.
I’ve debated a trip to Alaska...going The the northern most point in the USA (Arctic Ocean). The road’s been traveled by all kinds of motorcycles, but I’d be seriously tempted to rent one locally and pay the extra coverage in case it breaks down beyond the Arctic Circle. Why risk my personal bike when a rental more suited to the task can be had?
Thank you Sir. You've helped me out alot
Glad to help!
On the road I would choose shaft drive. If I was going to do off-roading mixed with on road, then chain drive is the way to go. Shaft drives are great, but can leave you stranded and be expensive to fix. Lack of maintenance from the owner is the biggest problem with shaft drive, as it hides up and coming problems until it is too late!
Agree
Adjusting a chain means you actually get down under your bike and possibly spot potential problems before they become an issue ..
The best makes these informative videos better
What you mean by make the videos better?
What I meant pavlin some ytube videos show the same but your explanation was better than others ✌🏼
Thanks!
Honda XLV750 from years ago has 21 inch and shaft. Sort of Africa Twin variant.
Suggestion. Rather than use a fixed rivet link how about a u shaped spring clip? Easy to get chain off to clean or for other maintenance. I always carry a spare spring link in case of roadside repairs.
A tutoro chain oiler keeps the chain lubed with hardly any effort. Best turned off when off road or mixes with dirt and makes grinding paste to destroy the chain.
Whatever you choose, happy travels.
As I said in the video there might be some rare models. I lost spring clip twice, never use it again.
I prefer the belt drive of my f800st. Should try it, best of 2 worlds...no maintenance, soft and silent
It is good as longer you stay only on the pavement.
I wish your honest, no-nonsense advice was available for non-adventure type riding as well. I really like your helpful approach, but I don't do off-road riding. If you can suggest a UA-cam channel for street riders, I would be grateful. Thank you!
My pleasure!
Great video as always. I put a Scottoiler on my Yamaha Fazer 600 2 years ago, so I don^t have to spray it. It needs some time to know the right setting for hot weather, rain etc. but once you have it, it is really nice. You don^t have to clean the chain anymore and the bottle of the oil lasts forever. Although I have only little experience on dirt roads with it.
Thanks Joe! Enjoy your trips!
The big problem with shaft drive bikes is that the shaft is enclosed within the swing arm, which makes it difficult to determine the wear on the gearbox and diff spines as well as the uni-joints, unless you strip down the bike, easy enough if you are mechanically minded or even a mechanic, a chain is easy to visually see the wear on the sprockets and chain, easy to replace and cheap to maintain. Also the type of chain is important, you need to get a chain that matches the bike power rating and size, always use a high quality O ring chain.
True
Pavlin, it would be interesting to hear your take on the belt driven motorcycles available on the market. Many thanks for your sound advice through your experience. Kindest regards. Joe.
I cannot say much, because I don't have personal experience. What I know is that they are not good for off road riding.
Excellent explanation and to the point!
Thanks!
I've seen belts, chains, and driveshafts. I've rode chain and belt drives. No experience with drive shaft. I figured chains last longer then belts but are harder to change. Belts wear out quicker but are easier then chains to change.
I may be wrong. Just what I've been told.
Was always curious about the shaft drives...drive shafts... So they are not the way to go if you ride a lot and everywhere basically?
Belts last longer than chain, but they are not good for off road, difficult to change, need to remove the swing arm. Drive shafts last longer than belt and chains, but not really a proper for off road. The chain is more or less universal.
I love supersport bikes, therefore I'm a pro-chain. Yes, chain requires cleaning, lubrication, but, when it breaks down, is so easy to replace, while a shaft is not so easy.
Agree
If you tour alot shafts great, if you ride motorcycles for years as a primary vehicles you want chain or belt
Use whatever suits you.
Hi Pavlin, maybe you can answer this question: What do you do with your gear and luggage when you want to stop for sightseeing in a city when you dont have hard cases. How do you make sure nothing gets stolen, especially in bigger cities? Thanks!
And one more thing about chain/driveshaft: I can recommend manual chain oilers. They have a reservoir from which you can manually squirt oil onto the chain whenever its necessary. I have a cobrra nemo 2 and I love this system because its very comfortable, you dont need to clean the chain anymore and the chain should also last longer. Continuous oil flow from an automatic chain oiler such as scottoiler is probably better, but they either dont work very well or are very very expensive.
Hi there, thanks for taking the time and watching the videos! When I stopped for sightseeing it is usually when I finish the riding day, which is mean that I am already in a hotel, hostel or camping. The park will be parked safe and I will go around with normal everyday clothes. If for any case I have to do it during the day, just leave the bike in front of hotel, coffee, bank, shop or people. Take my tank bag, which is with most important things. I usually lock my helmet on the bike with simple cable lock.
About the oillers... I am not a big fan of it, but many love it and use it. The life of the chain depends from the factory grease inside of the pins. Outside oil cannot help much. Yes, it keeps the chain nice and clean, but it doesn't mean that it is not worn. As I said to change the chain once per 20,000km is fine for me. Many people stated that they got 30,40,50,000km because of the oilers, but if you need to adjust the chain number of times, during that period, you have to understand that it is already worn out. Yes, it will looks like new, but it is not. The chain never stretch, the sprockets and the rollers are worn out and this make the illusion that the chain is stretched. So to have the oiler is not a priority for me at all. The important is to ride, not to worry about the replaceable parts of the bike. I hope it is clear now.
@@motorcycleadventures Thats a simple solution, thanks.
About the oilers:
To my understanding, the oil will keep the O/X - Rings lubricated so they stay intact and keep the factory grease inside. If the factory grease would be enough, it would not be necessary to lubricate the chain at all. Besides that, the dirt that sticks to the chain acts as an abrasive and lets both the chain but also the sprockets wear faster.
Having to clean and oil the chain is in my opinion the only real downside of having a chain drive. It has to be done regularly, preferably after riding so it doesn't fly off. Especially when riding in dusty environments like we usually do, cleaning is important as well because the normal chain grease is very sticky and attracts dirt, and its a very dirty job as well.
With a chain oiler all these problems are solved, because its loss lubrication, so dirt will be washed off by the oil. No need to touch the chain anymore and it will also last longer.
For me the main reason for a chain oiler is that I have one less thing to think about during a trip, but also when commuting. The longer lifespan of a chain is a nice benefit, but not the main reason.
I also wasn't a big fan of oilers in beginning, because they tend to be very complicated and expensive. The manual ones however are very simple, much cheaper (100€ new) and really have huge benefits, especially for adventure riders because it makes the chain drive practically maintenance - free and there is no reason for a direct drive anymore.
The only real downside of a chain oiler is that some oil might fly off the chain and make your bike dirty, but I doubt that any serious adventure rider would care about that :)
You believe on it and use it. This is the point, everyone should use whatever is work for him.
THX mate its a great video and educated..
Glad it helped!
Chain is better all round. I have used all three but ultimately, chain drive gives you the power and versatility off road.
True
@@motorcycleadventures Hey dude. I am thinking of getting a Honda Dominator NX650 again. My biggest mistake was getting rid of my other one that time. Do you know where I can get a decent maintained Dominator from; what equivilant bikes are out there today otherwise?
By the way, your videos are excellent. I have travelled the planet on my bike and there is simply no comparison.
Chain chain chain........best video
Chain for me as well. Thanks for watching!
As you said, both has pros and cons. For city rides and to almost forget maintenace, shaft drive is awesome like I have in my Honda CBX 650. On the other hand, chain is the preference for off road (or most of the roads in our country 😃). My Lifan KPT with chain drive tackles those very well. What is your opinion about belt drive? Have a nice day.
Belt drives are great for road riding. Not good for off road, easy to be damaged from the dust, stones or sand.
Now what about belt drive? Where do those guys fit in? I expect a follow up video :)
Well... it cannot be used in dirt roads. The dust, small stones, mud or sand could destroy it very fast. Not good ide for an adventure bike.
Harley are bringing out an adventure bike soon. I think 2020. I wonder if it will have the normal H-D kevlar belt ......
Well, I guess we know what you will think of the new Moto Guzzi V85.
You bring up some good points. 👍
To heavy and too expensive obviously 😅
Exactly! I am not saying that it is not good bike, it is just not my type of bike.
What are your thoughts on automatic chain lubricators such as Scottoilers...
I am not a fan on it, but many use it. The life of the chain depends from the factory grease inside, not from the oil outside. It's only prevent rusting.
On target any bike with a drive shaft are all big and heavy so it doesn't make sense for me on or off road. Chains allow me to easily chain the gearing to dial in higher or lower gearing for what I am doing. Bigger, heavier, high technology and expensive bikes seem to appeal more to the ego than they do to actual riding.
Pavlin, with driveshaft you have the new moto guzzi v85 tt ...and looks promising 19 front wheel and nice suspension
I saw it in Zurich, sorry, not for me! To heavy, to bulky and to expensive. Could be good option for someone who stays on the road.
Is the chain a problem when you go through mud and puddles? I assume some mud gets stuck in the chain and sprocket.
Same story for me! Chain is better ! My Africa twin 1000 cc I like to take off road often! Chain in this case much better!
Hey when you will buy new tenere 700! ???
When it proof itself.
hi, I absolutely Don´t agree... U have number 5 on your bike, but I think, U are nr. 1.....
btw nice true video as usual.. :-)
Thanks man!
Do you ever see dirt-bikes with drive shafts? I'm totally new to this field but we have a lot of guys around here in the villages with them and they're all chain drives. To me that says a chain is probably better for off-roading in general, otherwise manufacturers would be throwing shaft-driven versions at us all the time.
No doubt about it.
The BMW HP2 Enduro had a shaft drive and 21” front wheel
Had...
All components can break down .. easier and more importantly cheaper to change or find a chain especially in the middle of nowhere.
Exactly!
The best of both worlds is a fully enclosed chain. My Yamahas and suzukis never got better than 30.000k out of a chain but my ETZ250 got 128.000k out of the first chain. Why is this system only available on low end bikes?
Well, you are overlooking a major point.
First I do all the work on my bike. Second, I don't give a shit about performance.
Now the big issue. If I live for another 100 years, that last and I repeat, that last thing I ever want to do is touch a bike chain. They are disgusting. I don't clean bike chains. If I am forced for any reason to deal with a bike chain, it goes in the trash. I will never clean a chain, it goes in the trash and I will install a new one. When it comes time to clean a chain, it comes off, does not get cleaned and it goes to the dump.
I want just one of the adventure twins to offer a shaft. The first one that comes along and I buy it.
Again I HATE CHAINS and I am never cleaning another chain again EVER! CHAINS SUCK.
I only ride on the paved road and love the convenience of shaft drive.
Good, it is made with that purpose.
Are the Shaft failures all BMW oilhead GS1000/1100?
Point is to have things under control or at least monitor it. U see how chain is wear off, same with tires, tooths on sprockets, battery capacity, amount of oil etc. With "blackboxes" it is not so easy as noone see inside how they go after hard usage. So it is hard to plan maintainence on the trip, traveled distance is not reliable measurment for this kind of components
Very true, that's why I prefer the chain.
Pavlin, do you know why we *really* are interested in gear and motorcycle choice so much? Because buying things is the easiest thing to check off the list for an adventure...
True
Good points
Thanks!
Google HP2 Enduro, than click images tab.
If you search in UA-cam you can add Erzberg
Yes, I remember now this nonsense bike. Guess why they stop it?
@@motorcycleadventures
Because exactly like 950 SE it was ahead of its time, and slightly wrong targeted.
No, because it has number of broken drive shafts. It is a wrong conceptions. BMW never had a problem to sell their innovative technologies, but with this bike they target the wrong audience. Dirt bike riders wants light and practical bikes, GS owners don'r really ride off road, unless they have to - simple!
What about moto Guzzi v85 TT? Test one and make a video.
When I have the chance.
nice informative video bro
Thank you!
I like this guy👍
Thanks for taking the time Corey!
Pavel, is your engine sprocket worn down?
No, it is perfectly okay.
If someone wants to travel from Pakistan to Europe what will u suggest drive shaft or chain ? As mostly will be on ashphalt road .. and what bike u will suggest for a tall guy like 190 CM
You can do it without any problems with both. The bike choice is a personal thing. You definitely need high adventure bike and the options are not many. KTM 1090, 1190 or Yamaha like mine. The rest are two low.
@@motorcycleadventures thank you so much yes thats the problem i am a tall guy as u too always say and i am more taller than u so i need a high bike and yours one is already in my list
i want to buy this buy i m from India can u please tell me how can i buy this awesome bike.
From Europe
Nice vlog..Unrelated question..Iv never seen a sunny day in Berlin in most of ur vlogs 😂...
Well... last year we had 70 sunny days.
me like you.re info, thankyou.
Chain vs shaft drive vs fully enclosed chain
I'd love a fully enclosed chain.
There is not a fair comparison between bmw and KTM.. BMW big GS'es has other construction philosophy - suspension (paralleverre/teleleverer)+boxer engine+shaft drive+no frame solution+low center of gravity... so not only shaft drive matter.
KTM is more like traditional motorcycle construction...
BMW with shaft drive is more like exception to confirm rule that only chain the best for offroad..because not many shaft driven adventurers/offroaders available in the market...
if compare traditional manufacturer with shaft drive, there is rear model honda XLV750R (1983-1986) was Honda's first dual-sport motorcycle with two non-parallel cylinders. It has an air-/oil-cooled V-twin engine with hydraulic valve tappets and a shaft drive, but it was too heavy for ParisDakar (comparing to other 600cc), despite absence of water cooling...
Small advantage of bmw'sshaft drive - tyre change looks easier is in it?
also for bmw owners 21" inch front wheel conversion is available if prays and 19inc wheels not enought for offroad...
That's why so many models exist. everybody is free to choose what he or she wants!
Herth Berlin football stadium in the background and home of the 1936 Olympic games.
Yes
Good comparison...
Thanks Stephen!
Nice
Thanks
I'm pretty sure a shaft would be less maintenance and more durable.
Agree. Exactly what I said in the video. Each system has a purpose.
mnogu golem pozdrav od london if you going to trip to Scotland and passing from london will be pleasure to meet you and of course launch or diner in best Turkish restaurant .I have gs1200 adventure and in 1of may a will go to Tajikistan and back so any tips from you will be welcome
Thanks man!
I've fixed a chain by finding a nail along the side of the road...you will not do that with a shaft. I now carry master links.
True
21" front wheel... Let me look it up... No: »110/80-19 front and 150/70-17 back« - even the new Moto Guzzi V85 TT does not match. ;)
Thanks for your point of view but to be honest: I think the biggest adventures for the most motorcycles (and their riders) will be the trip to the next town, the stop at the ice cream parlor or getting in the rain. Plus for the shaft drive: No need to clean after those adventures trips. :D
One more point about the shaft drive: The bikes cost usually more when you buy them. More for the money: Chain drive.
Greetings from a shaft drive user. ;)
Everybody is free to ride whatever he or she likes! I respect all choices!
Ho forgot the belt....hummm
Have you ever tryed to remove the swinging arm from a bike? ..
With mono shock springs ect ....well when you have just to change a belt drive then we will see if you still love them!!
The dust, small stones, mud or sand could destroy it very fast. Not good ide for an adventure bike.
My opinion is that the chain is more versatile and suitable for real adventure. My V-Strom 650 is on the top of the scale (my opinion) regarding the weight needed for comfort on the motorway versus off road. I saw that without being on real of road, there were situations when it was in difficulty due to the bike weight. So yes I truly support the less weight and simple to fix mechanics rather than a "tank" like bike that need a bodybuilder physique along with a big bank account. Even then, what are you doing while stuck in the middle of nowhere? (rhetorical question)
Ride whatever you have!
As usual great video, one technical aspect I would like to point out here about the loss of engine / crankshaft power to the rear wheel. In Shaft drive the losses are upto 30 - 33% , In Chain drive around 10 - 14 % and with the belt drive about 5 %.
This calculation is wrong. The actual numbers are 3% for chain, 8 % for belt and around 10% for drive shaft.
If you are poor use chain drive if you are rich use shaft drive
In both case you might be wrong!
@@motorcycleadventures how so ?