I've Lost 4 Friends in 60 Days - Aviation Safety Discussion | Mike Patey
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Mike talks aviation safety here at KSPK, forum hosted by Hangar 107. It's been a rough couple of months for Mike as he's lost 4 of his good friends. Please everyone, take a hard look at yourselves and look for ways you can fly safer.
The full discussion with Juan Browne can be found on Hangar 107's page: / @hangar107-kspk
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I don't know if Mike personally looks over the comments or if he has someone that takes care of that for him, but seriously... it's HARD to be that vulnerable on such a fresh and painful subject. Much respect, sir, and I hope you can find your peace soon.
Thanks, yea this is me, I don’t get to read all the comments often but on this situation reading them is helping me cope. Feeling that maybe I am helping someone, somehow, keeping people safer helps heal my heart. Thanks for the kind words.. Back to Work,
Mike
I've lost some friends lately, not aviation related, but it's never easy. 🙏🙏😎
Oof l
Very passionate and honest talk, extremely moving. I've had my Lancair IV, for 20yrs, only once on a night VFR clear and decent weather Brisbane to Sydney got icing and with that critical wing, it was so fast barely minutes and airspeed decayed. We dropped and it dissapeared, i cannot imagine the danger you guys in USA experience. Stay safe and wait a day or four it those 3 things Mike talks about line up.
@@MikePatey Thank you so much for telling these stories to help keep us safe.
Mike and Blancolirio the best general aviation safety advocates in YT
Post more the world needs you. Not only do you educate but you provide an escape in so many struggling Americans lives giving little glimpses of happiness
@MikePatey Maybe you could have a chat with Garmin and a few other Glass panel companies to see if they can find a way to integrate the density altitude and aircraft performance into the display, so it would show what your current max altitude is based on current conditions. In addition to that, if somebody made a cheap enough load cell/strain gauge that could be integrated into the landing gear, you could also use that as an input for the weight and balance in the panel. That way it could show you visually your current CG envelope. If you had a lot of that data I am sure they could then in the panel show an estimated take off length and obstacle clear height. If some one was super fancy, they could have a laser range finder on board and pick and obstacle (enter that data into the panel) and then you could see if you could clear it.
Mike my friend, I will probably get a little long winded here, but if you happen to read this comment, I have a profound appreciation for the approach of your presentation in allowing for the emotional gravity to be clearly present. When one engages an audience in a factually off script style that is a non-stop experience of highly relevant and valuable detail, allowing genuine emotion to frame the context while delivering such clarity really cements the credibility of every word. This was extremely well done here and I truly commend you as a highly experienced source on this topic. This is unquestionably one of the most important presentations that should be a mandatory watch for every pilot. Reading safety guidelines and suggestions simply does not convey the true gravity or present the same profound impact that hearing these experiences coming from someone who has either personally witnessed an incident in some form or has been personally involved with these types of instances. The nuances you offer of genuine emotion places the reality of what outcomes are likely right…in…front…of…their…noses. I was a safety director in a sector that involves a lot of massive equipment both operationally as well as to engage in the serviceability of that equipment. There is a certain required level of precision and intention to ones attitude towards the work being engaged in that I had ALWAYS related to ALL engineers and specialist labor providers as being critical on the level of being a pilot. As the talent, skill, and familiarity with the activity being performed increases, for some that elevated level of experience actually becomes their most dangerous vulnerability. Being good at what you do is not the same as being an expert in the task AND the specific uniqueness of the environment in which it’s being performed. Any true expert will mitigate ANY safety concerns by eliminating those circumstances that show the highest vulnerability to failure. Your personal “3 Strikes Rule” is a brilliant example of that approach and the story of you caving to your innate sense of precision by speaking up and removing the passenger of another man’s plane is another brilliant example. You are unquestionably an expert my friend. No question. 👍🏻😎👍🏻
I've listened to all your speach with emotion. You usually appear as a very strong and willing man. But still sensible.
I only have flown a few hours in my life but I've sailed for many years.
One should ALWAYS remember that nature will overtake you, no matter how good yout think your are.
With all my empathy from France.
Huge respect for you Mike,you’re a real asset to the aviation community,intelligent, talented and a great teacher.
Bravo Mike,
I couldn't help but, grab the Kleenex while you were speaking. I have loved aviation ever since my dad got his license back in 1976 with his first little Cessna 150, when I was about 12. He graduated to a 172 which he flew about 10 years before graduating to a 182 for a minute, then his first bonanza and then an even nicer Bonanza with tip tanks and Autopilot. On a clear, sunny Morning, April 24th, 1992, he took off to take a business owner that we knew to have breakfast a Flo's diner at Chino Airport. The Airplane lost power on takeoff at about 300' over the runway. With no room for error, the plane stalled and crashed back onto the taxiway 100 yards from the fire station, hitting wingtip, nose then wingtip. My dad, who was 60, was killed instantly. The passenger, only 38 at the time, was revived at the scene, flown to Memorial hospital but succumbed to his injuries only 10 days later leaving his wife and young toddler behind. NTSB report claimed the Fuel pump failed when tested.
I am now my dad's age when he crashed, and I have a son now that was my age of 30 back then. I never got around to getting my pilots license but have many hours as a passenger and still never turn down an airplane ride when given the opportunity. I encouraged my son (Clark Kent :) ) to get his license, which he did a few years ago. One of my greatest memories thus far is getting to fly in the right seat with him after he completed his license. I watch many aviation channels and understand the losses these families have to go through firsthand. I hope that GA pilots take your speech to heart so we see fewer of these accidents that often times could have been avoided. Thanks for your enthusiasm and sincerity. Back to Work.
I learned to fly in Glenwood Springs Colorado. Every hunting season pilots and airplanes would show up to scout game. As a mountain instructor, and quite young at the time, I was always very impressed by the “flat landers”, that came to us for some mountain flying and mountain flying tips. The one Mike talks about here, never flying into a box canyon, was something we harped on many times. It actually even almost got me one time when I had to push my nose down, even though I didn’t want to, but had to, in order not to stall, and maintain flight. We came very close to tree tops. Unbeknownst to my hunting passengers, we came very close to not getting out of there. Thankfully, I was in a 180 horse 172 with a constant speed prop and of course, that never happened again.
I love the video where Mike and Mark, and Trent Palmer are in the STOLdrags at High Sierra. That is the Pateys encapsulated: just enjoying themselves, and so darn happy that everyone else is too.
I’m sorry to add a comment that relates to a COMPLETELY different subject:
Dear Mr. Patey, please collaborate with the Cleetus McFarlane crew and build them a carbon-fiber aero-body to their stick-shift drag-car called “Leroy”. It would be one of the most watched videos ever.
Mike, you had me choked up. I imagine it's a tough road right now for you. I hope the best for you and the affected circle of friends. I need to catch up on your pool build! But one thing: What happened with your brother and those guys with the brochures?!
What a presentation…
My Goodness!!!!
My boy, Mike
49:43 La to Los Angeles? Sorry I pick up the small errors lol. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing you guys speak.
I can empathize with your pain @MikePatey. I’ve lost 6 friends in the last 5 years - 5 of them in warbirds, which is my real passion. The pain of constantly losing friends can be unbearable at times. I too have taken a step back. I’ve flown my plane twice in the last year, and haven’t touched a warbirds in almost 12 months.
We need to do better. We need to make better decisions. We need better training. We cannot have the mentality that it won’t happen to us.
Thank you for sharing your story and perspective. We’re not alone in our grief.
How is it so bad even with people with hundred of hours of experience. I’m just starting hopping to solo in a glider in the next month or so but if thees guys die how do I have a chance? I’m still going to do it but jees!
@@excellenceinanimation960 it’s easy to get complacent as you become more experienced. Always stay vigilant!
A cursory review of WWI-Vietnam era Warbirds, when they were nearly new off the assembly line, operated by young fit for duty men, trained by the best instructors in the world, still crashed and killed countless thousands of aviators from all nations, without any exceptions.
If you strap into a warbird, accept that you are taking a substantial risk, somewhere in the category of rappelling and wing-suit flying. And there is nothing you can do to eliminate those risks. Only reduce them through perfection in maintenance, substantial training, etc. all of which costs significant money and time. And even if you do everything right, you will still have the accident and fatality rate that is easily researched in historical records. It is unlikely you can beat that record. Only tie for it.
…aaand, he can give a captivating speech, on stage, with NO notes, for 45+min. This man continues to be unbelievable.
he reveresed enginereed how to do a captivating speech, kept me at the edge of my seat
Besides the part where he said Utah and Colorado on are other sides of the country.
@@replynotificationsdisabled I took that in context of his contrast of the area with the flatlands to the east.
It was good. He made his points, and did so memorably, and that's what counts.
It is is said that a reporter once asked President Truman how long it took to prepare a ten-minute speech. He replied, "About a day."
"How long to prepare a one-hour speech?"
"I can start right now."
So, well-done for a near-extemporaneous speech.
If you know your material inside and out, it’s easy. Reminds me of the 2 hours Rush did on live tv with nothing written before. Clearly Mike Patey knows his stuff.
Thank you for saying all of this Mike. As a professional pilot for my entire adult life I have lost way too many friends that were superior pilots to me. My dad told me when I was just a kid that "Superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid having to use their superior skill". Your words and emotions are heard loud and clear.
Your comment brings back an old parable about "...Old Pilots & Bold Pilots but few Old, Bold Pilots. My dad was a bush pilot & hunting guide in Alaska when I was growing up in the 1950s and memories of flying friends lost never go away.
We had a similar one on the floaters: "Superb shiphandling means avoiding situations where your superb skills become required."
I dunno my friend, if you're still around and they are gone, I have some questions about who was the superior pilot.
@@scheusselmensch5713 Another saying is “I would rather be lucky than good”
Yeah well, luck runs out, good lasts. Some sayings are pretty stupid. Like "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.". Ask a polio survivor or long covid sufferer about that one.@@lanceav8r
I only started flying around a year ago and have always had the mindset of safety first, had plenty of hairy situations on the ground, don't need them in the air. That policy of 3 strikes for ANYTHING nonstandard is going to stick with me for the rest of my life. Thank you Mike, we appreciate you, back to work 👊
"Better to be on the ground wishing to be in the air than to be in the air, wishing to be on the ground"...
I don't know who said this but I think it's something to remember... :-)
Just make sure you understand that that's only for minor things. There are lots of one-strike and you're out things, too. The three strike rule is for stuff that you look at at first and think "that doesn't matter"
I was taught a variation of his "3 strikes" rule, which is to pay particular attention when you are feeling compelled to make a flight, or any aspect of that flight, before or during, is unusual for you.
@@RandySeverino That was almost certainly true of just retired pilots in 1990 too. Every generation of pilots thinks the "young whipper-snapper" pilots of the next generation are no good. There is sometimes a little truth in it, as a retired instructor I despair of watching youtube modern pilots with glass-cockpits, no air-charts stuffed down their boot, and no clockwork stop-watch on their knee-board, utterly reliant on the instruments for navigation and no "head on the swivel" lookout, because the same technology that they're navigating with ALSO tells them where other aircraft are - when it's working, if it's fitted to the other aircraft! One wonders how they'll fair if the glass-cockpit goes black, or if a glider or hot air-balloon flies close by. I've got to think half of them won't see the threat...
I'm interested in pursuing my PPL but the strike about night flying has gotten me thinking. Especially after the accident involving Richard McSpadden, I've wondered what would happen if a flight were to suffer an engine failure on takeoff, especially at night. I figure one would have a hard time distinguishing between a clear area to land and a dark populated area, unless they are already familiar with the area. That's also assuming the flight is in clear weather. Maybe choosing an airport with a long runway or with lots of open, flat land nearby would help mitigate that risk.
When my oldest brother was killed in a car accident in 1986, the state police officer said; "There are no accidents, there are only incidents which have chain of event causes". In my brother's case, it was a young man driving with his girlfriend on a wide open country road who missed a single stop sign at a country road crossing.
Oh man, I’m so sorry for your loss. The hole in our hearts never goes away. You’re absolutely correct, always a chain of events.
@@ChandraSlyFoxPatey Thank you, we all miss him still to this day.
I work on gravel roads out east in colorado.
The number of people who run stop signs out here is unbelievable. And many if not all of these 4-way intersections are only only two way stops, so you gotta play it like demolition derby.
People are profoundly stupid. The exception is rare.
@@TheJustinJYou learn from driving motorcycles, and living through it, that you have to watch all traffic for all possibilities. Then pilot your vehicle through the safest corridor. Never hotrod it.
@@TheJustinJ I wouldn't always dismiss those as stupidity. I ran through a stop sign while I was working as a 3rd shift security guard. No one else was there at the intersection thank goodness, but I learned that I needed more time to adjust to my new sleeping schedule.
I’m a sailor. Early in my keelboat days I used to deliberately head out in gale conditions because I had a stout boat and years of sailing experience in dinghy’s. I always checked the forecast, and had all the necessary safety gear.
One day I headed out with winds forecast to be 25 to 30 knots with 10 foot seas.
“No problem - I’m just gonna head out a mile or two and see how it goes. I can always run back into the harbor if it gets too ugly”
At first, winds were light and variable, with big lumpy seas. No problem. So sailed a little further out. Then the wind suddenly shifted 180°, and it began to blow. HARD. Harder than I ever experienced at sea. It was blowing offshore to that meant I’d be blown out to sea of if I was unable to sail up wind back into the harbor. No way my tiny outboard engine was going to get me home that day. So I sailed. I reefed down the mainsail and beat back into the harbor under my working jib. What was forecast has 25 to 30 kn turned into 30 to 45 kn of wind from a completely different direction. The windstorm was so powerful that it sank boats 40 miles away at Catalina island.
I was lucky to survive the situation I’d put myself in. I was alone. I pushed myself and my little 20 foot keelboat to their absolute limit, and I learned that forecasts are not perfect. I am an older and much wiser sailor now I know exactly why this pilot has a three strike rule, and is much more conservative now than when he started out. I have a one strike rule now I won’t deliberately head out of the harbor if winds are forecast to be 20 kn or greater. Ask any experienced offshore sailor. They’ll tell you that when it’s over 20 kn. Things start getting serious. Over 30 and you will have your hands full no matter how big or well-equipped your sailboat is. Over 40 kn, and you are in near survival conditions in most boats. If you want to have a long, safe and enjoyable sailing career, you won’t deliberately head out of the harbor when the forecast calls for strong winds.
It sounds to me like the same thing applies to general aviation regarding density altitude, performance, icing, mountainous, terrain night, flying and carrying heavy loads. I always seek to maintain a wide margin of safety when I put to sea. I never want to be caught out again in conditions That require 100% from me or my ship.
Because at 101% it’s over.
Great story. I love to hear about sailing adventures!
Aviation is similar, a light plane you also don't want to be out there in anything over 40kt winds. 30 can be sketchy unless its really smooth, and coming right down the runway heading. So 20kts with any crosswind component is a good rule of thumb for small ~2,000lb airplanes.
It's ill-advised to depart into mountain terrain with greater than 20kt winds down low. 30kt winds aloft at the very most. Anything over that, and mountain wave along with rotors and weird wind shear and vertical gusts will make the experience somewhere between miserable and fatal.
Sailed out of Oxnard or ventura?
I did a season of lobster fishing out of Santa Barbara
Greatest adventure ever, and even though I grew up in so cal, it ignited my love for the sea.
And very surprising, considering I suffer from thalassophobia.
Brilliant bit of writing- safe sailing friend. :)
It takes a lot of courage to walk up to your friends plane and take the passenger out of the back. You saved two lives that day. Much respect. BTW I love your channel. Watched the Scrappy build and much more.
General aviation is in trouble. Training is the problem IMHO.
OMG Mike. I am so sorry.
I once read flying is no different to riding a motorcycle
You have two buckets
Luck / experience
Your goal is to fill the experience bucket before the luck bucket is empty.
Doing both, I'd agree except that it's easier to find a place to park a motorcycle than to find one to park a plane.
Mike Patey talking about the three strikes only solidifies my decision to give up on flying. I did not have the time to dedicate to my skills and I was flying rentals. I loved it but I love my family more. I just realized that I was more likely to have a bad day in the air at some point. I had achieved a lifelong dream of becoming a pilot. I got to experience it. And for that I am grateful.
Good assessment ! I keep encountering older experienced G.A. pilots with professional careers and beautiful families CRASH & BURN because of some unexpected emergency.
This is the most humbled talk Mike has ever done. I have never seen him so serious. All pilots and passengers need to watch this, it will keep more of us alive. Thank you for this.
The amount of fatalities where one of the occupants was a flight instructor is beyond alarming. Many of these flight instructors are extremely young. We have a serious problem here and it’s growing.
It seems like the amount of accidents is growing, looking at the amount of vids about "probable cause" and so on. Is the FAA suffering from tunnel vision, with their focus on enforcing remote ID for small UAV craft above 250g, or even below, when flown as part 107 operation, and losing focus on the risks of manned aviation, where people die on a daily basis?
Instructional flights are the most difficult and dangerous. Those instructors have to try to teach in a highly dynamic and relatively chaotic environment where sometimes the students are inadvertently trying to kill them or put their certificates at risk. It is juggling quite a lot with crap pay and typically crap schedules, working for many more hours than the Hobbs meter shows. It is exactly where I’d expect to see most accidents, GA or instructional flights.
It's been getting steadily worse since 1970.
My instructors were flying in 1936 and 48.
Took my first lesson at 10 yrs old.
I learned the old ways and AQP.
In 55 years CP I've flown with several incompetent unsafe pilots with 5-10,000 hours. Scary.
I sold a single engine Cessna to a CP and he stall/spun it on takeoff, fatally. How the hell does that happen?
🔔😎
@@rc-fannl7364 The GA accident rate is at or near a historic low. The amount of reporting makes it "seem" otherwise, but the data shows we are improving. Google AvWeb's excellent article "Is Accident Reporting Making Us All Crazy" for a deeper dive into the actual numbers.
The aviation industry imposed many arbitrary requirements to make qualified airline pilots. This shortage is self-inflicted.
Mike Patey is a remarkable human being.
yes he is!!
AMEN @@shcaskey
That's just cuz you're remarking on him.
I was immensely moved by his talk. Wow. what an amazing individual and what would it be like to have a Friend like him in your life.....
Yes he is a extraordinary person
Great speech! I'm mind-blown at the guys loading the boxes back into your brother's plane and hiding them. Unreal.
Friends to die for.
I wish there were more details. That guy must feel awful. And they must have been angry.
Patey is aways wired, and it can't possibly be coffee! The man is just 24/7 energy.
If you had the reward at the end of the work he does you'd be working hard too... He's built quite the life for
24/7 intelligence.
ADHD I hear... he sure spins it into a superpower though if that's a fact
@@flip66five I'm going with your guess.
Wasn't an insult gentlemen.
Man, Mike, as a retired Army Special Ops guy who’s now a fixed wing flight student at SUU this speech was great to watch and listen to. I feel like I’m being overly cautious with my flights but now I know the more cautious the better. Thank you sharing these experiences with us all.
Mike, you hit a HOME RUN!
I wish EVERY pilot would watch this video!
I started flying when I was 16... went on to fly USAF fighter and cargo aircraft, followed by 20,000hr+ at a major US airline. I'm now 70 yrs old and can say that Mike's talk above is the BEST I've ever heard. Pure aviation wisdom....
thank you for your service
Its sad that this is character mike is the best there is to offer.
Highest respects. Extremely grateful to you.
Thank you very much for your service and sacrifice. 😊
So well said. At 73 I now don't: drive at night, drive in bad weather, drive when tired, drive when the 'flat landers' are crowding snow covered roads. Thank you Mike.
Amen.....I also just installed LED headlights to see better, but also as a little revenge to all those Toyota and Escalade owners who have been blinding me. ;-)
@@ThePudgie123 Me too😂. But on recent trip from NC to FL 2 weeks after they were installed, they made ALL the difference! Still don’t plan on making night driving a thing, tho.
Overheard that Cory Robin stopped flying…
He’s been very obviously absent online
Hmm that would be sad
“Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect.”
- Captain A. G. Lamplugh
There is much wisdom in this statement...but to the average person, telling them that flying is safe is often misunderstood..really, I contend that it is not inherently safe..it has more factors and forces trying to kill you at the same time than any other mode of transport, except space travel, and perhaps deep-sea submarine...most people who love aviation understand the risks they take, and do what is necessary and prudent to minimize those risks, to an acceptable level...but they still know something can go wrong at any moment, and they accept those risks....
Why can't we have a president of the United States that is this caliber of man ???
Speaking as a 57 year pilot, a 43 year CFI, 45 year ATP and the recipient of the FAA’s Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award, all I can say is this extemporaneous presentation by Mike Patey is simply the best talk on safety that I have ever heard. PERIOD. If pilots will listen to this and heed Mike’s advice, lives will be saved. Thank you sir. #nooldboldpilots
I will preface my comments with the fact that I am not a pilot. I stumbled onto the aviation side of UA-cam by accident. I watch every video that Juan puts out; he is at the top of my list. I subscribed to Mike's channel as soon as he started his talk. This has been a special hour for me. Thanks to both of you.
Mike is not only a very experienced humble pilot but also an Engineer who proved he can make the impossible possible.
He gladly shares what he does.
Awesome Guy !😅😅.
Enjoy the show.
My dad had 17,000+ hours, ATP and CFI ratings, wanted to teach me to fly. I knew with my personality and thrill-seeking penchant, it would end up bad. I never got rated and also stay off road motorcycles. I made it to 61 years old so far, because I understood my flaw.
If we make it past childhood . . . we're just plain lucky. I could tell you stories and I was a relatively careful kid. I'm 84 now but I don't jump over fences, I look around my car before I back out of a parking space, etc. Oh, and I don't do midnight sky diving (I never did).🤫
This attitude is why I drive a Sprinter van. Slow and safe.
I know someone who has this pov on risky activities and I find it weird. So you're too hardcore to even partake? That's not true. Sounds like you're just scared. You're obviously interested in flying and motorcycles so you should get involved in these things as safely as you can. You're already 61. Do you want to have lived your whole life avoiding your interests because you were scared? I don't mean to put this harshly, just please enjoy life.
@@PsRohrbaugh And you can sleep in it too. They make cool camper vans.
@@rcvg69420how many close calls do you have to have before you know it's a matter of time? Calling someone scared is immature, maybe they have other things in their lives that are more important than themselves, like a family that loves them, and doesn't want to risk their lives because of them, you know how mountain climbing is, it seems to be a very selfish hobby, just to climb something and risk your life and if you die, your children, and partner in life are left broken forever. Sometimes you need to weigh your risks and mitigate it, and although I think flying is as safe as you make it, but it's mother nature, or pilot error, malfunctioning crafts, it's too many variables for some to deal with comfortably, not everyone can be professional commercial pilots that accumulate thousands of hours, and that you pay for their expertise in keeping you alive
Really enjoyed this talk on safety. I 100% agree. The longer you fly, the more you realise it's just not worth it to take chances.
Ya know Mike, I totally get stepping back a little bit and flying more conservatively after all that’s happened. For my part I come to your channel to see all that you put into your projects. I work in decorating and finishing homes, seeing all you’ve been doing with your pool project is just as fascinating to me. Keep it up!
The best advice my dad, a pilot for 65 years, gave me was, "Never take anything for granted". Not your aircraft, not your flying abilities, not the weather, not the wind, not other planes in the air with you. He also said, "Never ever be in a hurry or you have to get there no matter the conditions".
Get-there-itis is a killer, 100%.
That last one is what I follow. I can always fly another day, I can get there another day. Lots of good advice.
Probably the most powerful video I've ever seen, you are a true inspiration Mike, everyone in aviation needs to take a leaf out of your book mate, I'm in awe❤
Good job Mike. I came up through general aviation into the airlines. Retired now with over 30,000 hours. I no longer have the desire to fly and I watch videos like this, Juan Brown, Dan Grinder and ARFF and wonder why such a big increase in aviation accidents has taken place. Keep up the good work guys.
Its simply statistics and probabilities.
There is no way to make the accident rate constant. Therefore it will ebb and flow from periods of less fatalities to peaks with many. They average out.
One thing that is certain, people will continue to fly headfirst up a blind canyon, just to see where it ends. They will dive well past Va and pull up to show off to their friends just how to easy it is to lose their wings. They will continue to pull a tighter turn from base whenever they overshoot final. They never learn.
All of this was covered in Stick and Rudder. Unfortunately, nobody reads it any more. (200k copies sold i 80 years, ~ 400k pilots at any given time).
@gundogg55 The GA accident rate is at or near a historic low. Google AvWeb's excellent article "Is Accident Reporting Making Us All Crazy" for a deeper dive into the actual numbers.
sorry to hear of your personal loss. It's bloody tough, unfathomable, unfair and will never leave you. I lost my best friend flying. He got a very serious head injury skiing. Was 7 days in intensive care. Was eventually released and flew back to NZ. He was stood down for a long time from flying here in NZ. He became impatient. He traveled to Aust and got a medical clearance and renewed his license. He died after making a turn in his glider and flying straight into the ground. One of his symptoms was that he would momentarily mix up right and left. Did it in his car about three weeks beforehand when taking his 18 year old son to catch a flight. So my best friend turned the wrong way, and being near Ridge's face had no chance. I feel your pain. Such a waste and so preventable. Stay safe. Enjoy your flying and think of your friends often. They will be flying with you. You will find that out in the most obscure ways if you open your mind.
Don't mess with your head!
I’m a 7 thousand hour professional pilot and this was one of the best talks I’ve ever heard. I routinely say no in my job and every damn manager up and down frowns every time we say no but at the end of the day it’s the hardest and most important thing I do is saying no.
I saw Mike's incredible speech at the weekend after blancolirio linked to it (Juan was the other keynote speaker). This may well be one of the greatest speeches ever given on aviation safety. It comes from a place of profound loss but is so clear and logical at setting out the accident chains that lead to GA losses - so many of them down to personal judgment calls. It's a tough watch but a necessary one, and I am sure that it will save at least one, if not tens or hundreds of people, from experiencing the loss Mike is right now. Bravo.
For the gentleman asking about the 10,000 hr pilot who has problems. It is important to distinguish between the pilot who has 10,000 hours of experience and the pilot who has one hour 10,000 times!
Knowing when not to fly, makes a good/safe pilot. Problem is that it`s harder than one might think.
So sorry to hear of his friends loss, Mike seemed visibly upset but still managed to get through that discussion in a professional manner, if his advice is taken seriously I am sure he’s going to save people’s lives, love your posts Mike keep up the good work!
Mark your story about the C172 icing up sounds exactly like my story in Montana mountains in 1978. 3 soles on board survived our daylight incident only with the help of God. We broke out of the clouds 75 feet over water still sinking and barely made a wrong way landing at an airport at the edge of the lake. Called center on the phone, but we listened to radio traffic about our deaths as we de-iced the aircraft inside a hanger.
Yikes, that's gonna stay with you. Glad you did dodge that bullet.
there are old pilots and there are bold pilots......
what a rare friend you are.. I was taught the 3 strike rule 30 years ago by a CFI out of Scottsdale... His giving me that rule stopped a number of flights but ya know what? am still here banging on a keyboard.... Pretty good chance I would not be if I did not heed his advice like your friend did... Bob Davies was a character and heck of a pilot...
Mike.......Would you please...pretty please campaign to become the head of the FAA someday?
Actually, can he just do it now? I can't think of a better candidate
agreed
Far too much Bureaucracy for a guy like him, so many layers deep, impossible to fix without starting over.
But there is two of him and vs. versa. We all know Mark is a power house too! 2 Patey's in a pod!! @@danblumel
Paperwork is his kryptonite 😂 and the FAA has a lot of it!
Mike that was the most heartfelt and riveting talk! Your humility and authenticity is second to none. Thank you for inspiring us all!
What a fantastic speech Mike. They should make that required for pilots to watch every year.
Old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.
In relation to the ‘brochures’ ordeal that Mike’s brother had to deal with. Is it possible to standardize once passengers are on board, for a pilot to do a basic visual inspection(looking under/beyond anything obscuring view) where things can be stowed/stored?
Truer words have NEVER been spoken... Mike Patey's words are to be respected and taken serious.. The courage to stay on the ground far supersedes the weakness it takes to be forced aloft by your own bad decisions.. Amazing speech.. Thank you Mike..
There's a reason in so many industries and work places we have near miss reporting and have to show learning from it - and our HSE here asks to see those records early in investigations into fatal accidents. If you don't track them and learn from them, you don't stop doing the things that one day are going to kill you or someone else. Thanks for this talk Mike - if I am ever lucky enough to be able to fly (not so likely any more with my T2 diabetes but you never know) and I need to fly high plateau's I'll ask for some time with an experienced high plateau pilot first! The CFI question is a very pertinent one having seen other vids this week covering a recent incident where the CFI was a major contributing factor to a double fatality training flight.
I cried watching most of this video...He really-really cares about all these pilots.
Good judgement comes with experience. The inverse ain’t true…
Excellent! We need more events like this across the country.
Big fan of Juan Browne. Not just his aviation coverage but living in Northern CA his local coverage of significant events is excellent and actual old school objective journalism.
He’s a great person and does a really nice job breaking things down.
He can be a bit self-righteous and overdramatic, but he's trying to be famous on youtube, so I can understand acting like that for showmanship.
Remember when he announced to his youtube viewers that he wanted the Army to ground all Blackhawks? Lol
@A.J.1656 I never got the impression of him being "self righteous" but sure he needs to make things informative and entertaining to be successful on any platform.
@ChandraSlyFoxPatey sorry about the lost of your best friends Mike and all you guys are awesome and I have watched every video you guys have ever produced even though I don't fly but friends build kit aircraft I watch them for the way Mike holds himself speaking and all of the enginuity and the house project looks great to 👍👍take it easy guys ❤
@@A.J.1656Juan has 50 times your experience with full-on military and commercial aviation so poop in your diaper all you want, you couldn’t even hold his aviators.
My brain went in a rabbit hole when he said that there's a place where pilot enter the canyon and once they enter that place they are doomed. Flying for 10 minutes thinking everything is fine but they are already dead.
Or flying for 10 minutes knowing you're already dead. Not sure which one's more horrifying.
In the old days i was taught to hammerhead out.
Think about it.
Hi Mike, I’m a low time pilot. Got my license in the old school days you talk about 2003. Seen a flight instructor die and other close to home accidents. Struggles with this have kept me from flying as much as I wanted to. I still have the passion. I let those bad experiences stop me. You are right. It’s on us to make the right decisions.
You have huge reaches in the Aviation World.. I have not watched all of your video.yet. More Aviators need to embrace what Dan Gryder is trying to do.. PUSH AQP for General Aviation!!!!!! I get he can be polarizing.. push people's buttons. Whatever.. u can't dismiss what he has been trying to shine a light on and promote safety training like the big airlines do. To Stop Pilots from making Fatal mistakes.. SADLY... Many of the Aviation Organizations won't even push for it. Idk why. Or even flight instructors. I don't have my license.talked about it.. but after seeing videos.watching.. and learning about AQP.. I won't even think about a acheck ride if trainer isn't aware and Practice AQP..
The person you mention is a quack. He has multiple lawsuit judgements against him torally over $1M for failing to demonstrate the symptoms of having either a brain or a heart.
Regarding Advanced Qualification Programs: "It is also noteworthy to mention that AQP is a voluntary program, meaning that air carriers are not mandated to participate. However, many carriers opt to implement AQP voluntarily due to its numerous benefits. These benefits include enhanced safety, improved operational efficiency, and decreased training costs."
It is VOLUNTARY and also does not specify anything of meaning whatsoever. It simply allows airlines to train pilots to tailored standards based on their age, experience, and what kind of flying they do. The entire point is TO REDUCE TRAINING and SAVE MONEY. by not training your cargo captains how to deal with passenger hijackers, because they have no passengers, etc. Those programs are not applicable to private pilots.
@@TheJustinJ AQP comes from Commercial airlines..it is by choice..his point is to do it. Save lives..and do it before Govt comes in to regulate GA more then they do.. cause NOThing the GOVT sticks thjer fingers into ever makes ur life that much better.. he pushes for Pilkts to learn it. Practice it.. do the things to help keep them alive.. if you cant get behind THAT IDEA !!!! Well. God Bless You
sensei Patey is a LEGEND. amongst the greatest people in aviation circles.
I enjoy riding a Motorcycle, As it is the closest thing to flying I will get to do. I can wake up in the Morning, & say I am going to ride to work. Then when I go to grab a set of Keys, Something feels off, & I drive the car, or truck.
We may never know what would’ve happened had we not chosen to listen to that feeling, but we’ll never regret it. ❤
I'm not an aviator but I used to ride motorcycles and absolutely agree with Mike, safety beats luck almost every time. Put another way, the more often you do things that could go sideways, the more likely you are to get hurt and the more likely you are to get hurt the more likely you are to have something happen that you do not walk away from. I knew better and more experienced folks who rode with me who aren't here anymore and it is always better to stay home if you have any serious doubts than to try your luck and find out your luck didn't hold.
Your family and friends will be better for you being careful because they want you to come home as much as you want to be with them. It is one of the reasons I enjoy watching Mike's builds so much, because he plans and builds to increase safety and it makes the difference between never having a problem, or maybe having an exciting story and about a friend calling and saying, "hey, I had some bad news today, did you hear about..."
I don’t fly…always wanted to and love flight! This hanger talk has been extremely interesting, informative and above all else this video should be watched by all pilots/aviators!!
Thank you guys…all of you!! 💪🏻👍🏻😊
We had our first major loss in our community here in a while. Two younger kids crashed during a storm.
Unfortunately there’s been quite a few this year.
Mike, im mostly a flatlander.....im going to be in Utah for 7 weeks for training probably January, whats the chances of getting some mountain experience or pointing in the direction of some good local contacts?
16years military aviation. “Knock it off” is always in the back of my mind. As a student pilot this is the kind of story that makes be feel maybe I’m not just paranoid.
Military aviation has a great safety culture (Air Force at least). I never felt pressure for calling it quits. My paycheck was safe no matter what. I'd rather not push my luck.
Thanks for the upload Mike. I just want to give a shout-out to my Dad. More than 40,000 hours logged. He died of old age at home but that was thanks to his experience, his calm (not unlike a Test Pilot's) and God's nickname; Luck. He also was clever.
Most of his hours were short to medium hops so he had far more landings and takeoffs than the WW2 Pilots who became commercial pilots later. He didn't get to have a 3 Strikes rule and so for instance; (in the early 1960's I think) got sent up on a hop through a hurricane which took the paint off the airplane. He also met and flew most of Joe Kennedy's children, including Jack and Jackie (but not at the same time). He flew rotary and fixed, single and twin (and none at all) and even rebuilt several aircraft, floats and even an aircraft from Plans. To top it off, he jumped from perfectly good ones.
I was his youngest of a "small Catholic Family" so he found time for that as well. My story with him was a bit like a Cobbler's son with no shoes, I did learn to fly from him and am grateful for the knowledge he shared. That's where I will share the only part here that might be helpful to others (usually my comments are not personal) : Crosswinds. I've made the comment elsewhere before but to preface it this time: My father talked about "heavy winds being a go/no-go for lessons" yet as I stood in the kitchen and more than once, looked at a row of 60 foot pines getting their tops blown around, that was a "go" day.
Well, all but one of them weren't bad in the Cessna he converted to Conventional Gear. Anyway, one day after lots of dual like that and having already soloed, he sent me again, alone to the airport to fly. I was shooting landings with a front, quartering wind, approximately 30 mph gusts (hard to remember now and I'm trying to avoid a fish story). The owner of a 186 was in the sky as well. He couldn't put it down (except twice) and had lots of excuses. Mostly "me", of course but all except one of my many touch and go's, we had no actual conflict in the pattern, not even close. The one that was felt forced by him, perhaps to bolster his reason(s) for not putting it down. I pondered it all for awhile and felt that wind is regional, not local and my father had done me a great favor.
Oh and I forgot to mention that I landed full-stop, got back to the tie downs and watched this guy miss some more. Apparently a ghost aircraft was on the runway this time. He really did blame "an aircraft" when he was on another pass.
The reason I came back to add that was to make it clear; he had the pattern and the runways to himself for a while.
We had 12 guys waiting for 6 days for the planes to fly. Bad wx. 6 days twiddling thumbs, staring at walls, going insane. Were we mad at the pilots for sitting on their butts for 6 days straight? Yes. Hearing from my buddys that everyone made it home to their loved ones instantly erased all that agony, boredom and stress. At that point I was so thankful to the pilots for sticking to their guns and not risking the anticipation that was building up each hour the planes were not in the air.
I’m proud of the pilots for sticking to their rules. Never any regrets there.
Preaching to the choir here. 20,000 hours, ATP, CFI, A&P IA. I don't fly my personal airplane at night or in IMC except to descend through a high cloud layer with good weather underneath, and I never scud run. Those 3 things remove 87% of the risks in general aviation. Maintenance only accounts for 17% of general aviation accidents on the average.
*_What a moving speech mike. The amount of humbleness you displayed is touching. Best place to be is in a state of humbleness. Sorry about the losses. I certainly know what that feels like like._* Back to work! 🛩✈
Not my quote but it is worth repeating,
‘Behind every dead body on Mount Everest there was a highly motivated person’
Don’t be that person. When dealing with dangerous environments and activities don’t risk your life.
I'm not a pilot, yet this speech had me so invested in the discussion I hardly realized that an hour had passed. Great work, and this is invaluable knowledge if I ever persue my aviation interests.
Safety is always written in blood and one should always think what that safety requires of themselves to be achieved lest they end up writing the next chapter.
I think it's our duty to us, and others, to impress upon those who might not know this, understand it, or that hate safety, bypass it, to let them know, to reach them. One life saved, one mind taught is one more that can reach another.
I now know what it is like while loosing and engine with less than 60 seconds and 800 feet agl, had we loaded the plane without weighing and flight planning, I doubt I would be able to be here to write this comment. I continue to watch all these You Tubes, that we never had years ago along with the Flight Safety meetings. My incident was only a year ago, and fortunately We are all alive and now I am rebuilding the aircraft due to aircraft under insured. I have tried to get a hold of some of those who are exhibiting accidents and You Tubes like this to share my story, the passenger in the back seat was able to video the incident in its entirety, and it shows how quickly things happen. Fly with altitude !!
Glad you were able to get down safely.
I will be having my PPL checkride in 3 days. You, along other safety focused pilots in YT have given me so much insight and invaluable advise I would otherwise never gotten, I can't thank you enough for that.
You're helping me become an extra safe pilot looking out for things you learn with experience.
In Costa Rica flying is a challenge, the terrain is unforgiving, the weather can change on you in a blink of an eye, the temps are rarely ever just fresh...there's so much you have to look out for. DA is a challenge here as well, between the elevation, high temps and humidity...
I'm taking your advise with me, and hope to never become complacent.
Much love. Pura vida.
Lost my dad to DA issues in Reno airport back in 91. I was 4, sis was 6. It was a hard childhood and makes me eager to be a father one day to cherish the moments my dad and I wish we had. Fly safe guys, your kids are broken without you.
6:34 to see you fighting the emotions here Mike was heart wrenching.
It is on us as pilots / students to maintain our knowledge just as much as it is to maintain our flying quals
far out. if i was your brother i would of called the cops and get attempted murder charges against that "friend"
Good on you Mike, this was a great talk. It's hard losing colleagues, so I know exactly how you feel. I am a (now retired) paramedic of 30 years. We were losing them to suicide at record rates, and I have personally lost 6 friends/colleagues. Bless you for this talk, for speaking out and speaking truth. My deepest condolences for your losses.
Hey man, I'm sorry for what you've gone through and your buddies. That's not easy. I hope you find your peace and the others find their way
Thank you. What saddens me the most is that they suffered in silence and didn't talk to anyone. I and many ofhters would have GLADLy listened to them, and try to help.@@getstuk87
i listen to mike patey and i think why do americans have a leader like byden when there are men of this calibre in your country
I am not in aviation as a pilot BUT I sit in the back as a paramedic. My 17 year old daughter is interested in aviation. We have been up with a friend who is building hours. This was a geat help in what I will look for if she decides to do it. Thanks again all. Safe travels
Thank you for being willing to do one of the tough jobs!! All our best to your daughter in her endeavors.
I’m an EMT that gave it up and dove into flight school this year. Case review after case review has painted a completely different picture of EMS both FW/Rotor. We used to joke about there being too many stars in the sky for the crew to fly. I won’t be doing that anymore. Total respect for turned down flights.
Since you were talking about icing I’ll tell a quick story. I fly a Cessna 421B for work. Me and my boss and his friends took off around 10:30pm from Niagara Falls airport ifr. We enter the clouds at about 5,000 ft and it’s in the 40s and full on imc. As we’re climbing thru 9,000ft, we built up ice and I notice the airspeed dropping and as I notice that, the auto pilot goes out, and my instrument lights went out.. luckily, we had de ice boots and props.. but flying single pilot imc, hand flying while trying to turn on deice equipment with no instrument panel lights was tough and scary lol good experience tho
I STARTED FLYING IN 1953. RETIRED NOW. I LOVE THIS MAN PATEY AND HIS BROTHER. HE SPEAKS TRUTH.
I started flying in 69 and feel the same way. I find myself constantly searching for new videos. I was totally addicted to Draco.
Mike Patey and Dan Gryder should team up, rewrite the books, and drain the swamp of stupidity in the NTSB and FAA.
Patey has a point, probably every pilot at some point, especially the younger males, have taken risks that weren't worth it. Confidence doesn't always equal competence.
@@jayklink851 That's right. Overconfidence will get you killed.
And they do it at a fraction of the cost of the NTSB and the FAA. 🤑🤔🤨
What an incredible talk. This is one hell of an aviator and one hell of a guy. Mike Patel is one solid dude.
"This is one hell of an aviator" Draco begs to differ.
Thank you Mike for the Reminder it will probably save some lives that you may never hear the story on them, Blessings Brother for you and your family and All of us out here coming and going on our paths.
You're a legend Mike. That was such a great talk considering it was unscripted. I can't even afford to fly yet but I am obsessed with your channel and so grateful for your knowledge. One day I'll get the chance to put it into practice. Thanks Mike. And sorry for your losses brother ❤
I have 2 friends that are airline pilots and i envy them so much, my hearing loss kept me from joining the airforce. i fly an avidflyer/taildragger and that is my fix. What the airlines did during the covid BS forcing these pilots to take the jabs is beyond criminal and i hope they get their dose of Karma, people need to go to prison for forcing those pilots to choose between their airline careers or take the jab/poison
Who are the 4 friends that were lost? I've heard an alarming amount of GA fatalities lately, so was just curious who in particular Mike was referring to. Thanks and be safe guys and gals.
Creighton King, Dooley Vanyo, Richard McSpadden and Vaughn Porter. It’s been a rough time.
Why not listen to it, WTFV.
@@colin-nekritz smfdb
I love aviation and I love the physics of flight, but I hate being up in the air. It took five lessons for me to say, "Nuh-uh. Way too many things can go wrong and it's a long, long way down." Call me chicken, but I decided I am not cut out for piloting a floaty air thingy.
Since I was in diapers, flying is all I wanted to do.
I'm taking up the slack for you 👍👍😎
@@hotrodray6802 Thank goodness some people are cut out for it. I love everything about flight, but had to come to the hard decision that if stuff goes sideways, I don't trust myself to make correct decisions in those nanoseconds between life and death.. I'd be one of those idiots that just starts pushing buttons and adding left/right rudder while in a death spiral.
Mike I have the greatest respect and admiration for you and your brother. You have done so much for the world of aviation And a big thank you for the speech you just gave on safety a lot of pilots needed to hear what you had to say. My heart goes out to you for the friends you have lost love you guys
Absolutely loved it. Mike, you are one of a kind my friend. God bless you and Godspeed moving foreward. Can't wait for that "turbulent" rocket to fly again. 😊
Mike, you've done so many great videos, showing us the engineering that goes into designing and building great planes, but you've never done a more important video. This, and the one Josh Flowers (Aviation 101) did recently, are a great wake-up call for everyone to get their minds right and make better choices. Thank you for your contribution to the community.
So sorry for your experiences, and many of us have had similar experiences -- although not so close together. Also, speaking this clearly and boldly is called leadership.