Flying has become a rich man's game. That is THE BIGGEST obstacle for most to get in to aviation. New aircraft are unobtainium for the average guy and because of this, quality used aircraft prices are either very high or the aircraft needs a lot of work. Even in the Homebuilt market, kits prices are relatively high. Yes, a lot of people are building but not nearly as many as had been. Years ago, I started building an RV-6A. It was one of the most affordable kits out there. Now, the tail kit costs as much as most of the full kit I started with. I had to sell mine because my eyes started to go bad. I've gotten past that and they are great now but I started looking to get back in to it and even ultralight kits are more than what it used to cost to build a nice homebuilt kit. I'm now looking at PPG or powered paragliders because it will get me back up in the air at a price I can afford. In my opinion, one of the best things you could do with your vast aviation and engineering knowledge would be to develop a reasonably priced entry level plane, You'd enable many more pilots to get flying and stay flying or get back in to flying. Many get started but the cost of aviation in general drives them back out. Old, affordable planes become unaffordable because of the cost of maintaining an old, used airplane. One more thing, you keep talking about getting new pilots into flying. Why not also focus on getting guys that used to fly back in to it. There is a vast wealth of experienced pilots out there that would probably love to get back in to it and pass on their knowledge if they had a reasonable way. Don't just look to the future but look to the past to create a new future. I used to be in the EAA until I sold my RV-6A. I left because I couldn't bear to look at all the kits that were being built knowing that I had to give up on mine. I was a member of AOPA. The reason I left was that even though they did a lot for aviation, I felt they were not focusing on the little guy. I'd look at their magazine full of new airplanes and fancy avionics and realized that can't be sustainable. Anyways, not sour grapes. I'm not jealous of those that can afford those but I'm sad for those that can't and therefore can't enjoy the freedom and joy of aviation.
Food for thought: Flying gliders is still affordable and has a community of passionate aviators to connect with. For weekly flying fun, I find no better way to get in the air.
I feel the same about AOPA, and also the financial cliff that one must climb to get into aviation. I wanted to fly since I was a kid, but couldn't afford it until I was able to get in via light sport.
speedy dad, i highly recommend powered parachute, i fly one, and its low cost, low speed, and the relaxing joy is well worth the 10 or 12 grand to enter the sport. No licensing, no inspections, no insurances, and great satisfaction, especially for older pilots.
Everyman's affordable airplane is the Patey sized challenge in my mind. Hard to quantify because it's different for everyone. But I can think of some good qualifications: 1 - Hangars are expensive. Trailerable, and make the trailer part of the support system for the plane. A 'portable shop' designed to support the aircraft, even disassemble major components 2 - 6 seats with tradeoffs in baggage weight, etc. Physics only goes so far 3 - Modular engine systems that are easily maintained 4 - Possibly inline twin for safety? 5 - A dramatically less expensive engine option - biggest challenge 6 - Printable components - make use of "maker" technologies such as plasma tables and 3D printing for most components 7 - 1,000 nm range 8 - 150 knots or greater 9 - Turbocharged for safety even in the flatlands. Climbing over weather becomes a possibility 10 - Dirt simple systems I've been working on this for years. Lots of ideas.
Regarding the modular engines - I really want to see hybrid aviation. If you have a generator, batteries capable of keeping you in the air for *maybe* 30 minutes, and a pair of electromotors, you get a system that is almost impossible to suddenly lose an engine on. Electromotors can be pretty oversized for redundancy if one fails by some miracle. A genset that is scaled for some reasonable climb will give you range and backup for batteries while being lighter than an aviation-grade engine scaled for takeoff power. Batteries make sure that your genset is not a single point of failure, giving you the power boost for takeoff and the time needed to make the turn of death when needed.
Well their drive for hard work and success are huge motivators as they're built that way. And the multi multi millions they make off their success are motivators as they want more and aren't happy sitting stagnant.
When James Bond fantasizes about who he wants to be, he pictures Mike Patey. Mark looks much faster, without a gallbladder. The aviation community is lucky to have these two. Everyone is fortunate that these two are still well. Much love.
Mark Patey for Congress! I almost joke, but honestly I see a lot of challenges that come from the FAA and a lack of ability for the administrators of the FAA to relate and build relationships with GA. I think there is a lack of communication and they rely on confrontational ways of meeting the goals of safety in aviation. I truly believe that if the FAA was a solid partner with general aviation, and not just an enforcement agency, safety would increase and it would be easier to lead people into GA.
@@801pilotI have a valiant idea to maximize impact. I just wish I knew an email address to send my ideas to you guys. Military Veterans. Millions of hours of talent that have since fluttered. Gonna try and find a direct line to call you guys. I have big ideas.
I’m a retired Dual Rated Marine Corps pilot, with fixed wing ATP and 10,000 total hours, CFI/CFII. Worked the commercial helicopter business after the USMC for Bristow. Would LOVE to own my own plane, but that goes to my 3 comments: 1. Precious little is going right in GA. 2. What is going wrong? One word… lawyers…. As a 25 year active member of the Florida Wing CAP, I gradually became very disillusioned with the bureaucracy, over regulation, and paperwork requirements place on an “all volunteer organization”. Costs for anything aviation related are at least 10x what they should because of “liability”…. It’s positively ridiculous. Involvement in GA seems to be reserved for the wealthy, and by that I mean zero malice toward folks like you guys. You earned every single nickel that you have imho. 3. I’m a member of CAP (retired now), former member of AOPA, and Life Member of the Marine Corps Aviation Association.
My responses pretty much paralleled yours. Aircraft cost, avionics, fuel, maintenance, insurance, and parts. I was CAP many years ago, I soloed in 1967 - in a C-150 the summer after I finished high school, at Mettetal airport in Plymouth Mich. I realize that inflation is off the charts, but you could buy a C-172 for an affordable price. The FAR's have reached epic elephantine proportions, and likely as you say written by lawyers and no doubt bureaucrats who don't know an elevator from an aileron. It would seem that perhaps the intent is to make it so expensive and so burdensome that general aviation is driven from the sky. Darn I wish I had the answers. Flying is in my blood, most of my career has been aviation oriented (03, USAF, but not flying- (Intelligence)) dad (and his crew) flew a B-17 out of the UK across the channel in 1944, and there is a picture of a very little me sitting in an F-86 with dads helmet down on my shoulders! I love flying but its now "unobtanium" for me, and I have self grounded as my eyes are not in good shape. I know that Mike and Mark are doing everything that they can to inspire.
First off, I'm greatful you're both still alive! Your passion and joy for your work is contagious. If you really want a BIG project, I have an idea! With the shortage of mechanics, especially in general aviation, I would like to see an online, or at least partially online, A&P training program. Lectures can easily be delivered through virtual classrooms or pre recorded. Pre recording has the benefit of editing for accuracy. Some labs could be completed in a garage or home workshop by sending materials to students. The students would then record themselves completing the work. Teachers would then review the videos and when it's done correctly, the student sends the material back to the school. This would work well for some smaller items about the size of a magneto. The bigger parts and projects that require more specialized tools would still require students to travel to a training facility. Training facilities could be either a centeral campus, or a partner school that teaches the hands on portion of this program. Alternatively, build a curriculum and license it to schools. A completely different way to accomplish this would be to use an online model to facilitate obtaining an A&P license through experience. Perhaps the student buys an airplane to be restored and pays a membership fee to have licensed mechanics advise and supervise the work. I think the hardest part would be satisfying the FAA because they tend to be risk averse.
My big request would be to help out the private airports that have a public use certificate, we are loosing airports all around the country! Certification standards and airport equipment is INSANELY expensive, making the business model tough! Sharp business savy folks like you could be a godsend to hundreds of local airports around the country!
Came here to say this exact thing. It’s insane how EVERY single airport within 100miles of me has NO hangar space. I have a citabria 7gcbc. Give me a grass strip and a cheap metal t hangar and I’d be happy. Even the private airports are full. Please!!! More hangar space.
I manage a small airport in Ohio and is really tough to keep the hangar prices reasonable when there the only source of income for a general aviation airport. I have so many ideas for how to bring in customers but find constant roadblocks with the owner who isn’t a pilot . It’s a struggle
I also had this idea! I hate to see the smaller airports going under. And get turned into houses. 2) help with sport pilot training it’s not easy finding instructors that want to do sport pilot training 3) back to my first one the county airports also need help keeping funding coming in for up keep. 4) medical reform for the faa, I have a medical for driving semis and have no problems with keeping it but can’t get a faa medical due to past medical issues and the faa wanting records that I can’t get anymore due to doctors not keeping them over 20 years
Member of EAA, COPA, ORAA. The slothfully slowness of the STC approval process. It's gotten slower since Covid in 2020 and now they've revised it to be slower yet. How can advances be made with such a hindering bloated system, even having a complete RTCA DO160 passed Series of testing. Should be a slam dunk at that point, especially having done a few 337 field approvals too.
1. GA, as a whole, is still going strong. 2. The price of entry is very high, and it can be difficult to find good flight schools that aren't crazy expensive. 3. I've been a member of AOPA for nearly 10 years now.
Guys, First of all thank you for all you do for GA! Been watching Mike for years and have had the pleasure of meeting both of you at Oshkosh and Sun And Fun. With your scary incidents we thank God you are both still with us! #1 Saving lives. Every year we loose way too many pilots, friends, and entire family’s in GA. The saddest thing is that so many of those accidents are totally preventable. I know this all hits very close to home with you both recently loosing Creighton King. I actually met him a couple times over the last several years and had spoken to him just last year at Oshkosh. What a great guy he appeared to me in just the little I knew about him. Tragic loss. I have been flying for nearly 25 years and believe Creighton is the first person I actually knew that had lost their life in an aviation accident. I don’t have the answers, and I do know there are great resources out there, such as the Air Safety Foundation and others, but we need to figure out something more. Something better, more effective, what ever how ever, to keep from having more accidents and deaths that could be prevented. Better training, better conditioning, more awareness, what ever it takes, we need to figure out a more effective way. You know Dan Gryder. Love him or hate him, he is very motivated and dedicated to this cause, and I do believe he has helped many pilots be safer, and more prepared for when something does happen, by using his You Tube channel and speaking events sharing AQP. As you both know at sometime, that something, will happen to you! #2 Saving lives, #3 Saving lives. Just my thought on priorities. Yes there are many other issues in GA that can use attention and I am sure you will get a lot of good ideas presented here. And yes there is a lot of great things going on for GA in very positive ways! I have been a member of AOPA, EAA, and RAF, for many years. I believe they all do great things for GA, although some struggle as they become so large. And Mike, for sure build the Albatross! And make sure Kermit Weeks is following. 😁 Thanks again guys! Hope to see you and say hi at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh. Best.
Thank you for everything you both do for the GA community and for helping foster excitement in aviation and STEM for not only the folks already involved, but also for the next generation! Glad you get to continue together on this journey! 1. The community is very welcoming and inclusive. I'm relatively low-time and have had nothing but positive and enthusiastic interactions with everyone I've met in the GA world. The good side of social media helping spread the enthusiasm for GA 2. The concerning growth (possibly also the dark side of social) of NIMBY efforts caused at least in part by misinformation due to a lack of understanding as well as intentionally being misrepresented due to developers wanting to take over valuable real estate. Aviation in general isn't a cheap endeavor but the most recent issues highlighted in Vegas show other threat vectors to keeping GA for everyone 3. Not quite 5 years, but a member of and supporting both EAA and AOPA And heck YES to the Albatross!
Your bond as twins is an incredibly special thing that most of the world will never understand. My dad is a twin (his name is Mark and my uncle's name is Mike!), and to this day they still experience uncanny things and know things about each other that neither of them should rightly know, even when they're separated from each other. I have no doubt, Mike, that your voice and presence when Mark was in the ICU is what brought him back (as I'm sure you know). The presence of family can help access the deepest memories and feelings your body holds and can give you an incredible amount of strength when you need it most. This hold more true for twins than with almost any bond I have ever observed. As an observer of your life, it is an incredible inspiration to see what you and Mark have done with your families and careers. Thank you for sharing a piece of your life with us, and thank you for your continued service to your fellow man!
Hi guys. A UK based guy here. I think you already give back a tremendous amount by sharing your lives, builds and aviation experiences with the world, evidenced by the comments you receive on every post I have watched over the years. However, in the UK there is a charity called Aerobility that you might like to Google. I think something similar in the US fronted by Icons like yourselves would be huge. Just think of the joy you could bring to individuals less fortunate than ourselves. All the best to you in finding your way forward with these fantastic aspirations. You guys are amazing.
I agree! Phins Up!! Always! Hard to believe Jimmy is in his beach house on the moon. Hemisphere Dancer II, has such a nice ring! 🦈to the left! 🦈to the right, I'm the only girl in town!! 🌴🦜
My dad is a GA pilot, brother is a commercial pilot, and I am just starting flight training and building a kit experimental helicopter in parallel. My experience in GA is limited as I am just getting started. The cost of GA has been a huge deterrent for me. 1. What's going right? Without question, the community. Aviation brings people together and for the most part is filled with extremely generous individuals who are happy to share their passion and support others, whether it's taking someone up on their first flight, or helping someone with their home built. I am sure you both will get a lot of support in making GA better for everyone because we are all in this together. 2. What's going wrong? 2.1 The cost of GA has far out paced the wages in the last 20 years. My father was able to buy and fly plane as a middle class individual, but I don't think that is possible today. Light sport, and experimental kits seem to be the only real entry point, and even then, it's still pretty expensive. Reducing the regulations might make things cheaper, but at the cost of safety? I don't know what the solution is. Operating cost is huge when you consider annuals and purchasing certified parts. Not everyone should be working on their own planes, but for those who enjoy building and maintaining planes a much as we fly them, there should be a solution for those individuals. 2.2 Finding quality flight instructors. Many of them are using it for time building. Turnover is huge and the training is poor. 3. I haven't been part of an association for more than 5 years.
Apologies for not having any current suggestions. I used to fly- was knocking out the last steps to get my license but got too expensive. There isn’t much you can do about that. But, I tune in because I love the content and the “get back to work drive.” Much respect to the both of you and to your families. You are truly just good people.
Mark, your story resonates with me. Seven years ago I went down with sepsis. I was a different bacteria but it leveled me. I was one sick puppy and the doctors told my wife I may not make it. I spent two week in hospital, but am still here. I am glad you are too.
I think they have their faults, but their attributes is they are rational, calm, and clear-headed which augments their relationships. No doubt they're good and well meaning dudes.
yeah.. im only 23 and my bro is 25, havent talked to him in 2 years. this stuff gets me man. im just glad theyre alive though. these guys are such an inspiration
Mike and Mark, your message hits home hard, both the carpe diem, and the awe of what aviation can give us. I'm a 1300 hour SEL pilot, grew up in central Alaska, dad was a government health aid worker, rescue mountaineer, glider pilot, glider instructor, CAP volunteer pilot, and had a Taylorcraft that we adventured in when I was a teen. I taught him how to snowboard when he was 65 and he became a certified instructor at 70, teaching in Utah. Sadly, he died the next year. Got my license at age 34 in a C-140 taildragger. Dad said if I could learn in a taildragger, they'd just seem like airplanes, not some exotic threat. That was some of the best advice I ever took. I helped a friend build a Glasair Sportsman, and have ended up owning and modifying two Glastars, rigging the latest one one with a T3 tailwheel and 31" Alaska Bushwheels, and touring the backcountry in my home state of Alaska. 1) I feel so privileged that I've been able to keep a license, and own two airplanes, and move freely from certified to EAB. Compared to many places, GA is incredibly open in the US. But there's a lot to do to keep it that way. 2) It's not that hard to argue that insurance has more power over us pilots than government, and that's a tough problem. I'm trying to set up my 17 year old son to learn in the same plane I learned in, a Cessna 140 -- a certified aircraft! used for training for decades -- and literally EVERYTHING is lined up to make it work, yet insurance may literally have the final say about whether he can live that dream or not. Seems pretty wrong. 2a) I think every small airplane on the planet should have calibrated audio angle of attack with at least three if not FOUR distnict audio signal levels, and the practice of landing to proper lift reserve should be integrated 100% into fundamental training for EVERY STUDENT PILOT. Landing to a well calibrated audio angle of attack keeps the pilot's eyes ENTIRELY outside the plane, automatically compensates for loading and density, and yet delivers the most consistent, safest information to the pilot to create safe landings in essentially every condition. If you need a high performance STOL landing, the audio angle of attack comes closer to guaranteeing it than anything else I've experienced. Plus, properly training the initial super-conservative AoA audio levels can be used to keep the aircraft completely out of the stall-spin zone. Distracted or simply unrefined student accidentally comes too close to spin/stall in a poorly executed pattern? first level Audio AoA comes on and student has been trained to automatically lower the nose and add power no matter what. Out of trouble just like that. I have never seen a more powerful tool for keeping landings consistently controlled and pilots safe. What if all landings by every pilot were safer? Heck, might even help with the insurance issue. 3)I'm an AOPA member and an EAA member for many years, and I've been a Young Eagles pilot for many kids, and mentored many of them into deeper involvement in aviation.
Not being funny or anything, but why would you thank god? We should be thanking the doctors and nurses and other emergency services staff that saved him. Or Marks body for pulling through.
@@jefferyg3504 No I don't. I'm pretty agnostic to atheist, so I never think about 'god'. Surely this happened through the skill and wonder of modern scientific medicine, and by the chemistry of Mark's body, which was able to recover during his time in intensive care. In this day and age, you honestly believe this was divine intervention? These are my thoughts anyway, not trying to insult anyone.
1) The community of GA is wholesome and welcoming. 2) The entry and financial help for blue collar working Americans. Most scholarships are based around high school/college students (which is great!) But severely limits men and women that wish to accomplish their dreams later in life. Certified low cost workshops even for the ground portion would be a immense help. Who doesn’t work with someone that says “I always wanted to be a pilot, but could never afford it” 3) I only started flying two years ago so no memberships at this time.
You guys are really the essence of what I aspire to be! You guys are talking about leaving more behind, than 'just' showing us, you having fun. I can tell you, you guys 'just' having fun - has already moved thousands of people and everybody is praising your contribution to this wonderful world of aviation! Thank you. Thank you for everything you have done and thank you for what you are going to do in the future! If I could, I would love to contribute to your questions, but I still have my PPL waiting for me in my near future! Thank you for moving my attention into aviation, there is no doubt in my mind that it is also where I will spend a lot of my time, for the rest of my life. Much love to both you, Mike, and you wonderful brother Mark and your beautiful families! God speed and much respect from a young guy in Denmark!! BACK TO WORK!! 💪
Both Mike and Mark have already done SO MUCH for aviation... I can't even fathom asking them for more. They've been incredible ambassadors for General Aviation and are 2 of the best guys to ever come out o Utah. Love them both.
1) We have a shortage of A&P ... possibly sponsor people into this critical element of Aviation... help folks see this as a worthy life goal ... 2) What can you do to help us kit builders who don't have your level of knowledge and confidence complete successfully ? what seminars could you hold or workshops ? ... the kit arena is so necessary given the cost of cert. planes ... helping to grow would be wonderful. 3) Maybe become your own honor system where you award builders / Pilots with recognition having completed necessary work through your efforts. You two are amazing ... I really appreciate you and your individual and collective efforts ... thanks !
The biggest problem being an A&P is pay and the up/down cycles of aviation as a whole. I left being an A&P and went into the medical field, much better pay, never have to get skydrol in my eyes, never have to work outside in -15 to 100 degree temps, No getting stuck between the rudder pedals of a lear 35.... When I got out of A&P school McDonalds was paying more than 1/2 of the industry. In 2000 our shop rate was $55 hr for piston and $65hr for turbine work. Most auto dealerships were charging $90-130hr. Remember the old saying the only reason you can't find people is because you're not paying enough! Pay and they will come!
Its hard to survive on A&P wages these days, combined with the liability and bureaucracy it kills the passion pretty quickly. I still work in aviation, but won't be touching civilian aircraft for the foreseeable future. Even when I do, I hope its only my own homebuilt, if I ever get around to building one.
I must admit, I had tears in my eyes when Mark talked about his near death experience. Good to see you're back at it! My greatest thought about aviation where I live, Norway, is that it's extremely expensive. Not many have funds to own their own aircrafts, and the few clubs available have not that many "time share" aircrafts as I call them. You buy a piece of the craft and share all expenses on it, and have limited time to the aircraft for flying. This works, but there should be more available, and prices should be more manageable. I really want my own motorized glider. My grandfather was a WW2 fighter pilot and one of his biggest dreams was for me to become a pilot myself. When my time came for mandatory military service, the military placed me in the Navy. (Not complaining, I've had loads of fun and it have opened many doors for me later on). But my ticket to a pilot license and the actually use for it went out the window as I kind of relied on getting on through the military. Now, as I've become older, past my 40's and racing close to 50. I'm in a good place with family, work, financial etc. But aircrafts are still CRAZY expensive here in Norway, and gliders are a bit cheaper. And... another reason for me wanting to get a glider is... My grandfather always wanted me to start with gliders from I was 16 years old, but my parents did not approve of it. Norway is a beautiful country from both land and air, and sailing above, relaxing and "disconnect" from work is a dream for me. So, option 2 is probably the only thing I can answer you on that can give a meaningful output. If Mark (or both of you) start a "Time Share" aircraft leasing business to help others into getting up in the air. You could stand as the majority owner of a craft, and have spots open for others. This might be a way into getting more active pilots... Might also be a paper nightmare with lawyers, so you should consider the drawbacks as well. PS: If I'm one of the random to get a gift. Please donate to something Children's Hospital ore something similar. I'm always donating to an organization called "Stiftelsen Sykehusbarn" here In Norway.
I’ve been a private pilot for about 3 1/2 years. 630 hours. Working on IR currently. What’s going right in GA? The freedoms to fly that we ave in America are incredible. GA opens up so many amazing opportunities. What’s going wrong? This list is longer. It’s gotten cost prohibitive. Hangars are virtually impossible to come by. FAA medical needs a complete overhaul. Instruction is primarily done by youngsters who are just building hours and not fully dedicated to instruction. I’ll reiterate; it’s gotten cost prohibitive for the common man/woman to buy, fly, and maintain an aircraft. I own a couple of businesses and do pretty well and it’s still a stretch to operate my 182. I don’t know what can be done to change that, but the barrier to entry for GA is insurmountable for many.
Thank you for inviting comment. I am a 65 yo retired NZ salesman, private investigative author & blogger, with no aviation involvement but I love your honesty and enthusiasm for your passion for aviation. I joined your channel because of Mark's build videos. Whatever you choose to do, please ensure that those videos still keep coming.
The friendship between you two is very inspiring as a father of 2 boys. I always emphasize to them that they'll have eachother for life and that's the most precious thing. You guys are exactly what I would like them to be when they grow up, not necessarily in terms of financial success, but just how you treat your family.
1. There's great momentum and community building going on general aviation right now. 2. General aviation still seems to be plagued with accidents and a high incident to death ratio. 3. No association affiliations. I'm a fan of general aviation. I've had my face pressed against the glass, looking in at all the fun, for many years. From an outsiders perspective, here are the key barriers that I, or anyone in my position, will need to overcome in order to become an insider: •Enormous financial startup costs and significant ongoing maintenance costs. •Sometimes the "general" in general aviation makes it difficult to decifer which camp is right for me. •Space. Aircraft kits are just to bulky to assemble. They are overly time consuming to build so a modest privateer like myself feels pushed toward entry level ultralights and less safe decision making. My proposal for the Patey Bros: • Design a GA aircraft that has zero kit components, rather, only accessible materials. One that is the safest in the skies. A plane that is a true quick build. Maybe it uses advanced adhesives instead of rivets. It needs to be jaw dropping cheap ($10-$15k) all in. It needs to operate like a conventional fixed wing aircraft as an ideal time/experience builder. It should be docile and intuitive with just enough delight in flight. It absolutely must be trailer friendly for at-home storage. Lastly, it needs to be a fine looking bird, with charm and simplicity that instills confidence and pride of ownership. The Volkswagen bug of the skies. In short, I think the greatest contribution you two could give to GA is accessibility. Love the channel, and so glad Mark is healthy. Best regards, Ben
I agree completely. Flying should not have to be a life-or-death decision. Better technology could reduce the chances of the pilot making deadly errors.
100% nailed it. Flying is cost-prohibitive, and when something does go wrong in the air, the death ratio shows a HUGE gap in how we've handled the evolution of aircraft vs automobiles. I know some people dislike ballistic chutes, but if an engine blows and you aren't near a viable strip, or a rookie pilot gets into a spin they can't recover, a parachute WILL save your life. And not just your life, but in many cases will preserve your plane as well (minus repairs). It just seems like such an easy cost-saver / life-saver, I don't understand why they aren't more widespread. Cirrus gets it. Many ultralights get it. It's high time the rest of GA/LSA does too.
@wb6anp sounds prohibitively costly. Crash structures are passive and can be extremely light and cost effective (f1 cars), there seems to be a pursuit of lightness and efficiency that's incompatible with crumple zones, roll cages, bolstered seating. If the aircraft can be designed for passive crash protection, it becomes sacrificial in a crash scenario. I'd be quite happy to walk away from a crash if my aircraft is a total loss...if it only costs $10-$15k.
@@rickwhite2567I have about a million miles of highway driving under my belt. Technology does not help people keep their eyes on their surroundings. Too busy watching cameras or TV's or phones inside their vehicles. Just like flight eyes out unless imc. What needs to happen is People paying attention. Driving at resonable speeds. people paying attention. people having consideration for other people around them People paying attention. People maintaining their vehicles. People paying attention. In my opinion if you can't pay attention to what is going on around whatever vehicle you are in, you shouldn't be controlling a vehicle. It should be a privilege and not an entitlement.
Thank you for what you both have done, and are doing for aviation. I have had the privilege of meeting both of you. Aviation has been in my family for many generations from the military to RC planes and will continue with my children. I’m part of EAA, AOPA, FAA, and 25:25 a controller in the ATL area and RV10 owner. I bleed aviation and love it as much as you. 1. Hanger space for GA 2. Cost of entry for student pilots 3. Skyrocketing landing or use fees for flying to lunch somewhere. 4. Uncertainties for AV gas regulations 5. Did I mention hanger space? 6. Airports only catering to Jets and not the local pilots. Thanks again. Love you guys. Now back to work, can’t wait to see this old and new projects come to life.
Wow guys… what an absolute miracle. As a paramedic, I have a very good understanding of how serious this was. I’m so thankful that you are still here with everyone, Mark. Even though I have never met either of you (yet) I care very much about y’all. Praise God for such a miracle!!!
1) You two and other fun aviation content creators are the best thing happening in aviation right now. You’re stoking energy in the industry and introducing flying to new people. 2) By far the biggest expense of owning an airplane is the cost of the hangar, and they are usually dreary places to hang out. Perhaps you duplicate your Spanish Fork hangar complex in airports across the country. 2.1) Aircraft engines are the second biggest expense. Perhaps you could buy the EPS company and bring the diesel piston to market for the GA industry?
I'm happy both of you are here among us! I really like the idea of the modernized "Van-Life" Albatross! Areas to Address: Reduce the overall costs for flying a plane- 1. Economical GA airplane power plants- The Diesel engine (EPS Aero) is a huge loss for GA. It could have been a family of extremely reliable, reasonable engines (4-8 cyls) which could be retrofitted into older airframes / kitplanes and deliver a reasonable per hour costs of flying. Perhaps resurrect the project and figure out how to make production affordable. Include propeller pitch control... The reduced pilot workload of a water cooled, single lever engine operation could attract new pilots. 2. A PC based Arduino/PC flight panel that is reasonably priced to be able to retrofit into older airplanes & new build kits. Something with pre-assembled wiring harnesses to make quick and fast installation for the most popular aircraft in GA. 3. Get the FAA to set a maximum limit liability for GA lawsuit awards. All the best, M-
Hi guys…I’m somewhat of a newcomer to aviation (got PPL in 20’s and then stopped flying for 20 years before deciding to become a pro pilot in May of last year) and I’ve been really enjoying your videos. 1. What’s going right in aviation? Well…in my world, the thing that is going right for me and the thousands of guys that have flocked to my channel is that the career opportunities in aviation have never been better. If you want to fly as your profession, this is literally the best time in history to do it. 2. What’s going wrong in aviation? From my POV, there is a few things that need fixing. #1 is the DPE shortage. The fact that pilots have to wait months for a check ride is nuts. #2 is the cost of training. Most schools tell students that they should expect to spend $100K and train for 12-18 months to become a CFI. That is nuts. I went from PPL to CFI in 91 days for $47K. Considering that most pilots become a CFI in approximately 250-270 hours, why on earth does it need to cost so much and take so long? 270 hours divided by 180 days is only 1.5 hours of flying a day. Bottom line: I think flight schools are broken and students are paying the price (literally). 3. I’m a member of NAFI…but only recently. Should you choose to work on any of the problems above, I’d be happy to help! Thanks!
Thanks for the opportunity to add our input and thank you both for your passion about growing GA. #1 - The community in GA is growing and vibrate #2 - Serious shortage in GA mechanics, issue with small airports not being properly managed and driving people out due to lack of hangars #3 - Member of EAA and AOPA
and cost of hangers, the cheapest near me is 300/month and that is on a private strip, most common is 600 to 1400 even those have a 2 yr or more waiting list. I have been considering selling my house and finding enough property somewhere big enough to build a strip and a house, it would be cheaper in the long run.
Hi Mike and Mark. First of all thank you for being aviation pioneers of our generation, ya'll are living legends. I am inspired and a big fan. My name is Leso from South Africa. I am a certified FAA A&P+IA and private pilot. I only have one suggestion, and it is as follows: 1. Being an Aircraft Mechanic for a good amount of years and a passionate aviator, my biggest concern and fear is a catastrophic engine failure. I commend Rotax for the development of the new engines to help the entry flying market with new, affordable and reliable engines. Take nothing away from the traditional engine marker like Lycoming and Continetal their engines stood the test of time but the fact is that something has to be done about the recent spike in engine failures that leads to loss of lives of the inexperienced student pilots. Yes we overhaul the engines but what is not noted or spoken about is the bad habits the engines had to endure in operation for the last 50 years. Metal has memory. Solution. Mark and Mike, please look into building a new aviation engine and get STCs for such engines to be used on all or most of traditional trainer airplanes. I am a member of Aviation Development Africa and EAA.
A very important need in GA is improving the safety. This will help ensure it's survival by preventing restrictive rules etc. as well as limiting insurance costs etc. Adding your game to what Dan Gryder is doing (not thinking finance but your endorsement as often as you can). This area (safety) is so impactful for all society, not just pilots, as the media only gets loud over accident, especially fatals. Thanks. Love you guys and so glad you are all well!
Dear mike, You and your brother mark are Icons in the aviation industry. You have inspired and motivated tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. You both have incredible personalities, Mind-blowing skills as engineers, fabricators and entrepreneurs. I feel that mark has the wisdom and Knowledge to Pilot the icon A5 Program to finish line. They have failed their customers And all of the new potential aviators. An aircraft In that category and price range Should have opened the doors to aviation to the masses. We all know the countless reasons that they failed To deliver the product. I know your team could fix it! With many prayers to you and your family, Respect and love. Joshua Johnson
Guys, you are the best thing in aviation history today. I have followed and watched Mikes builds for a while. From my meager perspective to aviation is the cost. I got my pilots license in my 40’s. Growing up I have always thought that flying was for the wealthy. Today I am still far from wealthy. A friend and I have the privilege to acquire our LSRM certification in a couple months. I have been a member of EAA and AOPA since around 2014. Have been a volunteer for our local young eagles event two times a year since 2013. How can the average Joe enjoy the great world of aviation? Henry Ford understood that need in the automotive industry in his early days.
I, too, have had a near death issue. Started vomiting, then went to bed with a bucket. 6 days later, I wake up in recovery with a lovely nurse saying the 2 neurosurgeons went up my nose & took my swollen, bleeding with a benine tumor piturity gland out. They said I am 1 in 2.5 million that survive. I love your channel's Mike & Mark....😊
Wow!! Me too! Some plaque broke loose and plugged my Widow maker. I was dead for 4 minutes. Thank god my wife was sitting there or I wouldn't have survived! I was in ICU for 5 days as well. They were really worried about my brain surviving Annoxia! I was a healthy fit guy and I never had angina. I got sick at the kitchen sink , threw up, sat on the couch and died. I then spent two weeks in a rehab center and I recovered quickly. Wonderful surgeon and everyone who saved me. I feel so lucky to be here!! 😁
I can add my 2cents. Notice the small improvements and work on being grateful. Have short term and long term goals that include other's help and planning. Being close to death gives you a valuable insight. I noticed that when my goals get put out there they end up being answered prayers. I am pretty careful about my requests these days. Keep on getting better.
@kensnyder2340 Yes, Ken, was a real eye opener as I just went to bed, slept, then awoke. They also said this was happening over a 8 year period. Ever so slowly going downhill, without ever noticing. Only two things that i did notice was I couldn't click my fingers and couldn't whistle. Never thought anything of it...???
Awesome video guys. As a Critical Care Paramedic, I see lives changed in an instant. So glad you both are here to continue giving back. 1. TRAINING! We are losing too many lives in General Aviation. Why do we keep killing ourselves, but 135 and 121 pilots have a stellar safety record? I am 52 and started my pilot journey just 3 years ago. I have less than 500 hours but I can attest, that training simply got me in the air. I've had to purposefully seek out further training away from learning maneuvers. Upset recovery is great, but what are the things that are likely to kill me. I take my wife, kids and grandkids flying and it weighs heavy on me the responsibility I have to keep them safe. We desperately need a structured training program for pilots far away from the training it takes to get the certificate. I see people discuss "AQP" and other acronyms and while I don't think the name matters, I think it it very clear we need more training on deadly scenarios. Let's focus on what is taking out GA Pilots and then create a structured training program to create muscle and brain memory to react to those scenarios.
Man I wish I had a brother, it’s so cool seeing you guys just hanging out. I have identical twin daughters, I hope they stay this close as they get older.
1) I love the passion that GA has. I got my PPL in Dec partially because of people like Mike Patey and Trent Palmer. I also love what UA-cam has done for GA. It has shown what is possible and what is out there. I never knew these planes or even the industry at all until I started seeing videos on UA-cam. So good job spreading the news there. 2) Cost. Everything is SO expensive. This might not be something you can truly help with, but as a regular Joe who does not fly for a business, I just fly out of my own pocket, it's expensive. 3) I'm and EAA Member and an AOPA member, but only since July of last year, as that's when I started my ground school. You guys are doing amazing things. I'm inspired by what you do, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
I am glad the both of you are OK. You are an inspiration for all of us amateur builders and business owners, or at the very least to me! As for your questions, I am most interested and hopeful in what is coming down the pipe with MOSAIC. I think expanding the Light Sport category is a great idea. I would love to see the sport category regulations include more advanced aircraft, similar to Europe, where a constant speed prop or even retractable gear are allowed. I have high hopes for what the future holds in the world of LSA's (OK, I mostly fly LSA's and both aircraft I have built/am building qualify as LSA's, so that is a particular interest of mine). Many people seem to discount the light sport arena, but I think it has a lot to offer, especially in the experimental realm. Plus, I think options like the Light Sport Repairman are a great thing, opening doors for people to be more involved with their own aircraft and helping keep costs of ownership down, making aviation more accessible to more people. It even has started a whole new business path for folks wanting to be aviation mechanics, which is great considering the world today. The biggest concern I have is around medical certification for airmen. I am switching to BasicMed as it meets my needs, so I am happy that there has been some improvement in this arena. The issue I see is one of fairness. I know several pilots who have had medical incidents that are 'disqualifying' and lost their flying privileges with no hope for getting them back. In almost all of these cases there would be no risk at all for operating a LSA or other GA aircraft, but due to the circumstances, the FAA has denied a medical and that is that. Hard stop. Meanwhile, with a slightly different set of circumstances, I know of other pilots who still fly with virtually identical histories who can just operate under either BasicMed or the LSA 'drivers license' requirements. This raises a huge issue where someone who is more than competent and medically capable is not allowed to fly, where another, who is in the same boat, is. I would love to see someone push on the FAA to reform the medical regulations to make them more inclusive to folks who have had issues but are fully recovered and can have medical professionals back that claim. This is a huge issue and I know of several folks who have really been beaten down by the FAA on this despite full medical clearance from multiple professionals. I do understand that for a professional ATP pilot, caution needs to be taken around medical issues or conditions, but for someone wanting to fly a LSA or a 172, it's a different story. OK, I'll get off my soap-box. As for the third question, I am a long-time EAA member (15+ years), and have visited several local chapters, and in the past was much more active in the local chapter. I am also a long-time AOPA member (also 15+ years), but not very active on that front. Good luck in whatever you decide to do! I look forward to seeing the next big projects you guys both bring to fruition!
Oh please buy the albatross asap. I have been in love with the albatross since i was a kid. You would be fulfilling a childhood dream for me. That would be the absolute #1 project.
I work in aviation and I’m about to get my PPL license, just for fun. My flight school is nice but we’re still flying on 1978 C172N. My ideas to you: 1) Design a trainer that would revolutionize and lower the cost of initial PPL and IFR ratings (do what the Cessna Skycather was meant to do but unfortunately failed. 2) Another idea is to design a modern 2 seater to be an entry path into aircraft ownership. Better performing than typical LSAs but still docile and suitable to the average-skilled pilot (maybe a Cirrus-like 2 seater?). Love you guys! All the best, Breno
Absolutely loved the video! Mark, God's blessings on you. I'll definitely be praying for you, and may you make a full recovery. As for the three questions: 1. I might mention both of you, and others like you who so generously give of themselves to make it better. Definitely air shows and get-to-gethers are wonderful for those of us who have been driven out of full participation. 2. I probably don't know enough to make a very educated comment as a former student, and nearly licensed one (35+ hrs), it was expense, expense, expense. (My brother in a higher income bracket, owned and flew regularly several planes including multi-engine, pressurized, etc. , but is now retired. We now talk aviation a lot.) 3. Mark, I don't feel qualified to give you further suggestions, but will be praying that you find the one(s) that will bring God's blessings to you and others. Thank you that both you and Mike are so generously sharing the blessings God has and is bringing your way.
1: General Aviation is growing! So awesome that aviation people have dove into UA-cam and Instagram and continue to grow this awesome industry that we all love. 2: affordability and public perception are both really struggling in the industry right now. It's too much to go into here, but a renewed focus on PR issues surrounding aviation and accessibility is absolutely essential. 3: I've been an AOPA and EAA member for over a decade and strongly support both organizations, both for their work from a public policy/political standpoint, as well as how they support the aviation industry and pilot community. Lastly, do a Mike Patey Edition turbine Albatross!! That would be incredible.
i always had a feeling there was a special connection between twins. so glad for mark and all of you that he pulled through. that would have been an nightmare. ❤
Long-time follower and huge fan of all you do. 1) Safety is what is going right in aviation. Accident rates are coming down thanks to improved training, better avionics, access to in-flight aviation and traffic. 2) The list for improvements in aviation is long but we all know that the pilot community will only survive and improve if we grow the number of pilots flying. The list you guys suggested is great. You know the hot topics, plane cost, fuel cost, regulations preventing technology from being quickly adopted into new and used planes, airport closures is a huge problem, hangar access, etc. This list leads to my recommendation for Mark. He needs to replace Mark Baker as AOPA President since announcing his departure in January. I don't think anyone would be a better advocate for pilots than Mark Patey. Mark has the business skills to manage and motivate a large organization. You understand the problems. You are an inspiration for new and old pilots (the cool factor is there). You are well known and have the respect of active pilots and many of those wanting to get their license. 3) I am a lifetime member of AOPA and EAA and I am also a member of the Coeur d'Alene Flyers, Idaho Aviation Association, and Fitchburg Pilots Association. Do it Mark!
1. What’s going correct: safety is talked about more than ever and more scholarships for young people every day 2. There are two very different kinds of pilots out there, one seems to have money to burn and the other are sacrificing everything just to fulfill their dreams, it would be great if they had more scholarships for the older crowd to add on another rating , IFR / Commercial to possibly make a career change or just be a safer pilot 3. Proud EAA , AOPA and Minnesota pilots member. Keep doing what you’re doing, it definitely makes the world a better place
1. Whats going right in Aviation - positive social media (ex. You Both, Cletus and Dave Sparks). Whats going wrong in Aviation - the actual cost for the average citizen (license, flight time / training). Not enough people around us to support said adventure. 3. 5 year falloff is real, 3 year fall off is real, in fact 2 year falloff is most likley if your #2 is not met. You just become a spectator, ill watch and research type of person, wish i could type of person,a rc plane type of person. As close as i can get type of person.
You guys are the greatest! I have met you a couple times at OSH (Mike, you and I had a long conversation at the B&C booth a few years ago - you are as personable and passionate as you are in your videos+++), (Mark you and I discussed tugs "at an affordable range for the < 40k aircraft people). I love how much both of you have contributed to the advancement and safety (and training) in aviation things that I have interests in. I know you are involved with gobs of other things also! I am certain your heart and "give back" mindset makes those ventures as fantastic as you have made your contributions to me!!! I try to be like you when working on projects (others and my own) getting people involved and making a difference. As far as the list: 1) We are so fortunate in the US to have these freedoms to get so involved with aviation. I have lived and visited other countries. One does not grasp this until you hear what THEY have to do in order to do aviation things! 2) I am concerned about the reductions of requirements in A&Ps and the forecasted shortages. Watching what Boeing has gotten in trouble with (focusing on margins over safety and pushing timeframes to "get things out the door" (from a friend of mine that works for Boeing). I am seeing MANY of the "old" A&P/IA retiring (or just throwing up their hands and saying it is not worth the stress/frustration/etc.). I have enough hours and have signoff to take my tests - I have NEVER worked on pressurized cabins, turbine, and jet engines... yet I am REQUIRED to know what I am doing! #3 will go into what I would like to happen. 3) a) Make a catagory of A&P/IA that is GA specific (say up to 12,000 lbs and not jet/turbine) [kinda like the SLA Rotax program] b) Make MOSAIC like what it originally was intended. Be able to introduce experimental like things (e.g. glass cockpit, engine swaps, other mods) for certified non training aircraft. We used to be able to do that, then it was shut down (pretty much when experimental aircraft (from scratch) really took off. There are a LOT of aging aircraft that will remain on the ramps and dusty in hangers as bringing them back with original parts is just no longer feasible (availability as well as cost when they can be found is HIGH). c) Like the idea of extending the SLA to include some of these aging plans (makes more sense than the "ya gotta by a 300k airplane to be SLA because all the Luscombe and ercoupe C are sold" - HOWEVER, not so sure I like the mcDonalds menu of options. d) Shortage of instructors NOT going into the airlines. As the demand for airline pilots go up (and hr requirements go down), the turnover rate at airports that I am involved with has a MUCH higher turnover rate that I have ever seen. If the Govt has 7.4 billion dollars to give away to college students that took useless college courses (and now cannot get a good job to pay them off) - the purse strings should be opened to the aviation world to encourage LONG TERM instructors some how. e) Help EAA get focused on EXPERIMENATAL aircraft - rather than "anything aviation". I feel that they have lost Paul Poberezny objective and now have become an "if it makes us money we are in" (as I open my 3rd solicitation for money mail from them this week). Best of luck (and health) to the two of you and your supporting families in so you can continue to inspire and encourage people to be like you! M.
Hey guys I'm 63 years old and I have a Brother 16 months younger than me we are closer than ever in life. Family all we should come first and two brothers should always stay close love you guys and your story is super important
Glad that you recovered Mark. I am a mentor for a high school build a plane program at Tehachapi Airport. Would be nice if there were more programs like this to inspire youth. By sponsoring these programs. We are building a RV-10 & a RV -9. I have been a member of AMA Flying & building RC planes and jets. For over 35 years. I worked on the B-2 for Northrop in flight test for 33 years. I wish the FAA would leave line of sight model flying alone. Biggest problem with avation is the cost. Wish it was less expensive to fly.
1. I’m retired aerospace. My father was a WWII vet who was a gunner on B-17s, later a Mechanic on P-47s. He always got us involved in Model Rockets, U-control model airplanes and RC model airplanes. For me this involvement resulted in a 35 year career in aerospace on some pretty awesome programs. Today, I still fly Model RC airplanes. What I notice in our club is there are no youngsters at all, just retired old guys. If you can figure out how to attract young people into aviation, whether it’s Model aviation or general aviation, that would create great possibilities, good times and possibly awesome careers. Please do something to get youngsters jazzed and involved in aerospace. 2. Safety seems to be a problem in commercial aircraft lately, this sucks and is dragging down the industry. 3. I’m a long time member of AMA, American Modelers Association, does this count, lol. Love you guys, glad you are both ok.
Almost the exact same suggestion as me. I'm an engineer, not really an aviation nerd, but I got my drive for engineering when I was little from working on various projects with my dad. It has driven my whole career. Most people do not have any real passion, or very little drive. I want to see youth outreach programs to get kids interested as early as possible. Could be model airplanes, could be general aviation maintenance, etc. I just want kids to find something they're passionate about and make a career out of it instead of working meaningless jobs they hate for the rest of their lives.
Cost of entry to GA is too high, wages too low. Nobody's thinking about owning an aircraft when they are having trouble putting food on the table. Model aircraft are not exactly affordable either, and at least in Canada it's more trouble (paperwork) to fly model aircraft than it is to fly a real one, if you can even find a field you're allowed to fly at. The kids that are getting into aviation now are doing so in front of their computer screens, with simulators and UA-cam videos.
I have always enjoyed aviation, but i too have kept my experience strictly to rc models both planes, jets, and helicopters. Member of the AMA past 7 years
5 plus year member of EAA and AOPA, your third question reveals the way Mark can have the largest positive impact on general aviation. Mark should replace Mr. Baker at AOPA if and only if the board will give him the authority and support to refocus the organization to improve general aviation. The numbers and infrastructure are there, it just needs a wise leader with the right goals and motivations.
Wow, this is one of your best videos yet. 1. Aviation information is so easy to obtain these days. 2. There seems to be a lot more accidents these days. They also seem to be easily avoidable ones as well 3. Your influence in general aviation is already amazing. I could see you being a voice to pilots, NSTB and FAA. Training for GA needs a voice that you possess. I’ve been a member of AOPA and AMA (RC) for years
Back in the early 70's my dad was seaplane fishing on a lake in Canada and came across a guy with a PBY Catalina converted into a RV/motorhome. It had a full bathroom with a gravity shower, master bedroom, and kitchen. He told my dad he was considering putting turbines on it instead of the Pratt & Whitneys, who knows what became of it? YES Build it and film IT!!!!!
Mike & Mark, retired cockpit designer here. We lose many pilots every year to loss of control accidents. Seems to me with the advent of AHRS in light airplanes there should be an economical way to design a retrofittable recovery system that could take over if an unusual attitude is sensed. Of course it could be turned off for training if needed. If it was cheap enough to be retrofitted to all the existing Cessnas and Pipers etc the benefits could be multiple. First saving lives from loss of control accidents and possibly inadvertent flight into IMC but it could also lower the insurance costs that have skyrocketed in recent years. I have some other ideas and would love to talk to you about them.
The big things that would help with general aviation: 1. Mental health reform with FAA. 2. Bringing down aircraft and insurance costs. Those two things will do wonders for getting more people into aviation. The cost for second hand aircraft over the last 10 years (last 3-4 specifically) has gone up significantly, which has barred me personally from pursuing an aircraft purchase.
Glad you guys are still around!! I would like to see the cost of getting into general aviation come down enough that more people can enjoy it!! Keep up the good work!!
I’ve survived ecoli sepsis three times :/ my infections were asymptomatic, but luckily the sepsis was not. The first time was when our second child was 5 weeks old. Poor John (grammer) thought he was going to lose me. I’m so glad you survived too!
Based on my own near death experience, I suspect Mark, that you will come to terms with the experience mainly because you were likely unconscious through the worst of it. Be aware that it is not so easy for your loved ones who had to stand by and watch it happen. For them, they would have felt helpless and now wonder if something like this will happen to you in the future and they will live with that for a long time. Appreciate their love and reassure them regarding their concerns....don't make the mistake is dismissing their concerns. Glad you are okay now.
My number one would be the cost of getting a PPL and purchasing a simple 4 seat aircraft to travel with your family. I am in Law Enforcement and feel I make ok money but having two kids and day to day expenses have priced me out of a dream of being a private pilot. I think the requirement of ADS-B has made flying safer and I only see better advancements in the future. And for Marks 3 question, I am a member of AOPA. I got hook on flying in the 80’s when my uncle took me up in his Bonanza A-36 and to feed my addiction I began to build and fly RC planes. Later I build a home simulator with Microsoft FS and for my work I get to fly around NV transporting inmates for extradition, but my goal is to have a simple plane (Piper Cherokee, Cessna 172 or 182) to travel around in with my family. Hope this helps with your questions Mike and Mark. Thank you
I'm not a pilot, but I feel I can offer you a "outside looking in" perspective 1 What's right? Technology and safety. Its exceedingly rare to hear of injuries or deaths caused by defective planes/parts/equipment. It's usually pilot error, and then usually an error in judgement. 2 What's wrong? Cost. Plain and simple. This is not a hobby the average person can get into. You have to have the love of flying just to spend the $$$ to learn even HOW to fly. Maybe that's really a good thing, as it limits GA to dedicated people and not just 'flavor of the month types'. Some of us are content to live vicariously thru you and your videos. I know I am. I got my interest in aviation from my grandfather who was a fighter pilot in the Luftwaffe in WW2. But I know that I don't have the level of dedication required to do it myself. Still... one can marvel at the skill and ingenuity you guys display in designing something even a simple as a gust lock.
Valid point! My brother is a 747 captain and I started flying GA when I was 13. We both love flying, but only 1 of us made it a career due to the cost and time commitment. We definitely need to do better in terms of making the sport both safer and more affordable.
1.) Access to GA - IMO you used to have to "know someone" to get involved in GA. I think that's improved - 2.) FBO's and City municipalities that see their airports as cash cows. Crazy FBO fee's, cities not renewing long time leases going after "Jet" business, "landing" fees - etc. Certified aircraft pricing - new aircraft aren't being built in the same number as the legacy GA fleet is slowly disappearing. LSA flopped and could be improved/renewed. 3.) EAA - AOPA - I thought the Albatross may have been it - that answer is absolutely yes!
Good response. GA Airports are no longer welcoming. Either socially and certainly financially. Need to open the seemingly closed network. More clubs? What about gliders? Those clubs used to be the cradle of careers.
The two of you have already given so much of yourselves to aviation. PLEASE enjoy your lives and quality time with your beautiful families. Personally, I'd love to see both of you work on a project together. We've seen the projects Mike has built over the years, now that your retired Mark, enjoy that life you've built for yourself. Certainly you've earned it! I'm so thankful that God spared you, there's a reason for that. Only knowing you both through UA-cam, I know you both love your families, Aviation and businesses you've built. You put your hearts and soles into everything you do. THANK YOU FOR THAT! Now that you Mark have Officially retired, I know you'll stay busy. More builds WITH videos please. Question for you Mark: With your medical emergency, will you have any issues with an FAA medical in the future? Question for Mike: The Albatross is a massive project; Can you do that and still work? Time to retire yourself? What can the both of you do for aviation? EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING!! Your builds, the videos and more time for the both of you are motivation for all of us. together. Stay happy, healthly, spend precious time together and BACK TO WORK! God bless the Patey families!
To both of you Patey brothers. Thank you for your inspiring efforts, and innovation, and passion for aviation. I feel that most of us pilots feel that aviation gives a sense of freedom and exploration as well as some kind of magnetic connection to the early pioneers of aviation. Especially those that fly cubs or similar planes. Mike I met you before you put the name on Draco, I flew one of your legacy’s from Morgan airport to you down in Utah valley with York Zentner. You’re a gracious host and kind to all. At the time I had no idea who you were, just a cool guy with really cool toys and race car mounted on your wall. To answer your questions 1. What’s going well: Leaders and those who inspire like you, Trent Palmer and many more that bring authentic attention to the possibilities of anyone getting into aviation. 2. What needs improvement: better options to carbon cubs, husky’s, Kitfox, etc. I feel that there is potential of someone with resources being able to build better back country cub equivalent planes that don’t have the $360k price tag the puts most of us out of the market. I do like experimental class. I fly a smith cub and it’s great but would love to upgrade my wings with slats and Fowler pstol flaps. Maybe one day. I’m a chiropractor but a 3rd gen pilot. Watching Trent Palmer motivated me to move from my first plane a Mooney 201 to my Smith cub. 3: I’m a member of the Apoa, Utah Back country association and our local Dirty Dirt pilots club. Thank you again Dr Derrick Stanbridge
I was straight up guessing a P-52 but am surprisingly excited about the albatross 😎 & I'm super glad to know you're still fighting the good fight Mark ❤
1 - We are so lucky what infraastructre we do have in GA In the US. The way to free services in the air and on the ground as private pilots is amazing. Coming from Europe, this is such a gift under appreciated. 2 - Our airports are under attack by housing projects and local politics missing how great the above is. 3 - I am part of the EAA and love love love the freedom and the community around building experimental planes. Plus there are so many unfinished projects out there, I am on number 3, first a Chinook Plus 2, then a Quickie 2 and now a Chipper. Like you said my own lowest possible cost end bookmarks LOL WANTS/IDEAS A - Create not just one where you are but many airport communities around existing and maybe new airports with living quarters. That will ensure that the airport won't die because of local politics trying to take over the land around it for other housing. IMHO only people that love to fly understand the benefits and the economy that comes from pilots with pilots. I so wish I could find an affordable place to have a second home that is a hangar at a fun airfield! B - The experimental building community is aging out, many of the EAA chapters I visit, I am at 56 the youngest which is crazy. Lets bring schools and universities into building planes, designing planes and focus on new tech such as electric, VTOL and other upcoming things the FAA and certified field is decades away from. What can I do? Not sure but happy to chip in. Weird to put this into comments but lets see what you do with it. And CONGRATS ON BEING ALIVE, glad you both made it!!! Love Robert
Mark, I'm so thankful you made it through all that! This was a very moving video and I'm excited for what's next for both of you! 1. After watching Mike's recent talks on aviation safety, I've been brainstorming ways to promote safety to the aviation community. A few creative ideas come to mind and you would be awesome spokesmen if you were behind them. 2. I'm wondering if you could start a program that would use aviation to help people with autism. My wife just started an autism therapy clinic and I've been thinking about what this might look like for me to try with RC planes. Also, I recently discovered that I have ADHD, so I think there is potential for aviation to make a positive impact in that area as well. 3. I'm really dreaming now, but I wish there were flying clubs with Carbon Cubs so pilots, myself included, could get time in them. I think you should start a chain of Patey flying clubs across the country! I appreciate what you do for aviation and how you care for people! Keep up the good work!
Mike is working g on Draco X in which he plans to improve on the original Draco. He said that there were a few things he wanted to do differently to improve it even more.
After the crash, Mike had said basically it would be too risky to get Draco back in the air again because of all the damage. Your looking at metal fatigue and a huge effort and cost to go through that plane to fix or verify it is solid. As much as I would absolutely LOVE to see Draco fly again I have to agree with his decision.
Because life is precious, it will only live on in spirit. it's not worth flying some individual damaged airframe when others can stand in their place. I'm sure Mike would rebuild it if he felt safety wasn't an issue.
YES! Buy the Albatross! That would be the coolest project yet, by far!
By a Grumman duck as well. It is also a great amphibious plane.
i always wanted to do the same! but for time beeing I only managed to build a RV-8 😂 And now a Family.. Thus it would be great to see you doing it!
... and make your brother to buy PBY Catalina
This is one of my favorite airplanes
I had this same idea and was sharing it with a friend a few months ago! I would LOVE to see this build!
Flying has become a rich man's game. That is THE BIGGEST obstacle for most to get in to aviation. New aircraft are unobtainium for the average guy and because of this, quality used aircraft prices are either very high or the aircraft needs a lot of work. Even in the Homebuilt market, kits prices are relatively high. Yes, a lot of people are building but not nearly as many as had been. Years ago, I started building an RV-6A. It was one of the most affordable kits out there. Now, the tail kit costs as much as most of the full kit I started with. I had to sell mine because my eyes started to go bad. I've gotten past that and they are great now but I started looking to get back in to it and even ultralight kits are more than what it used to cost to build a nice homebuilt kit. I'm now looking at PPG or powered paragliders because it will get me back up in the air at a price I can afford. In my opinion, one of the best things you could do with your vast aviation and engineering knowledge would be to develop a reasonably priced entry level plane, You'd enable many more pilots to get flying and stay flying or get back in to flying. Many get started but the cost of aviation in general drives them back out. Old, affordable planes become unaffordable because of the cost of maintaining an old, used airplane.
One more thing, you keep talking about getting new pilots into flying. Why not also focus on getting guys that used to fly back in to it. There is a vast wealth of experienced pilots out there that would probably love to get back in to it and pass on their knowledge if they had a reasonable way. Don't just look to the future but look to the past to create a new future.
I used to be in the EAA until I sold my RV-6A. I left because I couldn't bear to look at all the kits that were being built knowing that I had to give up on mine. I was a member of AOPA. The reason I left was that even though they did a lot for aviation, I felt they were not focusing on the little guy. I'd look at their magazine full of new airplanes and fancy avionics and realized that can't be sustainable. Anyways, not sour grapes. I'm not jealous of those that can afford those but I'm sad for those that can't and therefore can't enjoy the freedom and joy of aviation.
Food for thought: Flying gliders is still affordable and has a community of passionate aviators to connect with. For weekly flying fun, I find no better way to get in the air.
I feel the same about AOPA, and also the financial cliff that one must climb to get into aviation. I wanted to fly since I was a kid, but couldn't afford it until I was able to get in via light sport.
these two are very very much "rich men" so I doubt they have much of an obstacle bro. lol
I'm not rich, but I got my private a few years ago. It isn't cheap that's for sure, but it is obtainable.
speedy dad, i highly recommend powered parachute, i fly one, and its low cost, low speed, and the relaxing joy is well worth the 10 or 12 grand to enter the sport. No licensing, no inspections, no insurances, and great satisfaction, especially for older pilots.
Everyman's affordable airplane is the Patey sized challenge in my mind. Hard to quantify because it's different for everyone. But I can think of some good qualifications:
1 - Hangars are expensive. Trailerable, and make the trailer part of the support system for the plane. A 'portable shop' designed to support the aircraft, even disassemble major components
2 - 6 seats with tradeoffs in baggage weight, etc. Physics only goes so far
3 - Modular engine systems that are easily maintained
4 - Possibly inline twin for safety?
5 - A dramatically less expensive engine option - biggest challenge
6 - Printable components - make use of "maker" technologies such as plasma tables and 3D printing for most components
7 - 1,000 nm range
8 - 150 knots or greater
9 - Turbocharged for safety even in the flatlands. Climbing over weather becomes a possibility
10 - Dirt simple systems
I've been working on this for years. Lots of ideas.
Regarding the modular engines - I really want to see hybrid aviation. If you have a generator, batteries capable of keeping you in the air for *maybe* 30 minutes, and a pair of electromotors, you get a system that is almost impossible to suddenly lose an engine on. Electromotors can be pretty oversized for redundancy if one fails by some miracle. A genset that is scaled for some reasonable climb will give you range and backup for batteries while being lighter than an aviation-grade engine scaled for takeoff power. Batteries make sure that your genset is not a single point of failure, giving you the power boost for takeoff and the time needed to make the turn of death when needed.
These 2 dudes are not human. How do I/we all get a fraction of the energy that feeds them and gives them this positivity.
Do you do know that Mark is a lifestyle coach/motivational speaker?
@@weschaeffler88 That doesn't surprise me.
ESTP Personality type. Good parenting. Good schools. (E.g. Good Philosophy).
kratom
Well their drive for hard work and success are huge motivators as they're built that way. And the multi multi millions they make off their success are motivators as they want more and aren't happy sitting stagnant.
When James Bond fantasizes about who he wants to be, he pictures Mike Patey.
Mark looks much faster, without a gallbladder.
The aviation community is lucky to have these two. Everyone is fortunate that these two are still well. Much love.
@pfsmith007: what Bond's Q was to gadgets, Mike Patey is to general aviation.
So glad you're both ok! Absolutely yes to the Albatross!!
Mark Patey for Congress! I almost joke, but honestly I see a lot of challenges that come from the FAA and a lack of ability for the administrators of the FAA to relate and build relationships with GA. I think there is a lack of communication and they rely on confrontational ways of meeting the goals of safety in aviation. I truly believe that if the FAA was a solid partner with general aviation, and not just an enforcement agency, safety would increase and it would be easier to lead people into GA.
Outstanding idea! America needs can do men in Washington!
Mark Patey for the next president and CEO of AOPA.
Ahh, you’re all awesome 🤣👍. Thanks for the kind words.
@@801pilotI have a valiant idea to maximize impact. I just wish I knew an email address to send my ideas to you guys.
Military Veterans. Millions of hours of talent that have since fluttered.
Gonna try and find a direct line to call you guys. I have big ideas.
Mike Patey for president
I’m a retired Dual Rated Marine Corps pilot, with fixed wing ATP and 10,000 total hours, CFI/CFII. Worked the commercial helicopter business after the USMC for Bristow. Would LOVE to own my own plane, but that goes to my 3 comments:
1. Precious little is going right in GA.
2. What is going wrong? One word… lawyers…. As a 25 year active member of the Florida Wing CAP, I gradually became very disillusioned with the bureaucracy, over regulation, and paperwork requirements place on an “all volunteer organization”.
Costs for anything aviation related are at least 10x what they should because of “liability”…. It’s positively ridiculous. Involvement in GA seems to be reserved for the wealthy, and by that I mean zero malice toward folks like you guys. You earned every single nickel that you have imho.
3. I’m a member of CAP (retired now), former member of AOPA, and Life Member of the Marine Corps Aviation Association.
My responses pretty much paralleled yours. Aircraft cost, avionics, fuel, maintenance, insurance, and parts. I was CAP many years ago, I soloed in 1967 - in a C-150 the summer after I finished high school, at Mettetal airport in Plymouth Mich. I realize that inflation is off the charts, but you could buy a C-172 for an affordable price. The FAR's have reached epic elephantine proportions, and likely as you say written by lawyers and no doubt bureaucrats who don't know an elevator from an aileron. It would seem that perhaps the intent is to make it so expensive and so burdensome that general aviation is driven from the sky. Darn I wish I had the answers. Flying is in my blood, most of my career has been aviation oriented (03, USAF, but not flying- (Intelligence)) dad (and his crew) flew a B-17 out of the UK across the channel in 1944, and there is a picture of a very little me sitting in an F-86 with dads helmet down on my shoulders! I love flying but its now "unobtanium" for me, and I have self grounded as my eyes are not in good shape. I know that Mike and Mark are doing everything that they can to inspire.
Excellent points
Thank you for your service! God bless you! Semper Fi
First off, I'm greatful you're both still alive! Your passion and joy for your work is contagious.
If you really want a BIG project, I have an idea! With the shortage of mechanics, especially in general aviation, I would like to see an online, or at least partially online, A&P training program. Lectures can easily be delivered through virtual classrooms or pre recorded. Pre recording has the benefit of editing for accuracy. Some labs could be completed in a garage or home workshop by sending materials to students. The students would then record themselves completing the work. Teachers would then review the videos and when it's done correctly, the student sends the material back to the school. This would work well for some smaller items about the size of a magneto. The bigger parts and projects that require more specialized tools would still require students to travel to a training facility. Training facilities could be either a centeral campus, or a partner school that teaches the hands on portion of this program. Alternatively, build a curriculum and license it to schools. A completely different way to accomplish this would be to use an online model to facilitate obtaining an A&P license through experience. Perhaps the student buys an airplane to be restored and pays a membership fee to have licensed mechanics advise and supervise the work. I think the hardest part would be satisfying the FAA because they tend to be risk averse.
Great idea!
My big request would be to help out the private airports that have a public use certificate, we are loosing airports all around the country! Certification standards and airport equipment is INSANELY expensive, making the business model tough! Sharp business savy folks like you could be a godsend to hundreds of local airports around the country!
Came here to say this exact thing. It’s insane how EVERY single airport within 100miles of me has NO hangar space. I have a citabria 7gcbc. Give me a grass strip and a cheap metal t hangar and I’d be happy. Even the private airports are full. Please!!! More hangar space.
I manage a small airport in Ohio and is really tough to keep the hangar prices reasonable when there the only source of income for a general aviation airport. I have so many ideas for how to bring in customers but find constant roadblocks with the owner who isn’t a pilot . It’s a struggle
I also had this idea! I hate to see the smaller airports going under. And get turned into houses.
2) help with sport pilot training it’s not easy finding instructors that want to do sport pilot training
3) back to my first one the county airports also need help keeping funding coming in for up keep.
4) medical reform for the faa, I have a medical for driving semis and have no problems with keeping it but can’t get a faa medical due to past medical issues and the faa wanting records that I can’t get anymore due to doctors not keeping them over 20 years
Member of EAA, COPA, ORAA. The slothfully slowness of the STC approval process. It's gotten slower since Covid in 2020 and now they've revised it to be slower yet. How can advances be made with such a hindering bloated system, even having a complete RTCA DO160 passed Series of testing. Should be a slam dunk at that point, especially having done a few 337 field approvals too.
The only sustainable way for the industry to flourish and the airports to make money is increase supply of hangar space
1. GA, as a whole, is still going strong.
2. The price of entry is very high, and it can be difficult to find good flight schools that aren't crazy expensive.
3. I've been a member of AOPA for nearly 10 years now.
Guys, First of all thank you for all you do for GA! Been watching Mike for years and have had the pleasure of meeting both of you at Oshkosh and Sun And Fun. With your scary incidents we thank God you are both still with us! #1 Saving lives. Every year we loose way too many pilots, friends, and entire family’s in GA. The saddest thing is that so many of those accidents are totally preventable. I know this all hits very close to home with you both recently loosing Creighton King. I actually met him a couple times over the last several years and had spoken to him just last year at Oshkosh. What a great guy he appeared to me in just the little I knew about him. Tragic loss. I have been flying for nearly 25 years and believe Creighton is the first person I actually knew that had lost their life in an aviation accident. I don’t have the answers, and I do know there are great resources out there, such as the Air Safety Foundation and others, but we need to figure out something more. Something better, more effective, what ever how ever, to keep from having more accidents and deaths that could be prevented. Better training, better conditioning, more awareness, what ever it takes, we need to figure out a more effective way. You know Dan Gryder. Love him or hate him, he is very motivated and dedicated to this cause, and I do believe he has helped many pilots be safer, and more prepared for when something does happen, by using his You Tube channel and speaking events sharing AQP. As you both know at sometime, that something, will happen to you! #2 Saving lives, #3 Saving lives. Just my thought on priorities. Yes there are many other issues in GA that can use attention and I am sure you will get a lot of good ideas presented here. And yes there is a lot of great things going on for GA in very positive ways! I have been a member of AOPA, EAA, and RAF, for many years. I believe they all do great things for GA, although some struggle as they become so large. And Mike, for sure build the Albatross! And make sure Kermit Weeks is following. 😁 Thanks again guys! Hope to see you and say hi at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh. Best.
Mike and Mark Patey are my two best HEROES! God Bless you and yours!
Y'all will never lose our attention!
Mark, we are so blessed you are still with us and keep fighting the good fight.
This world needs you both.
Thank you for everything you both do for the GA community and for helping foster excitement in aviation and STEM for not only the folks already involved, but also for the next generation! Glad you get to continue together on this journey!
1. The community is very welcoming and inclusive. I'm relatively low-time and have had nothing but positive and enthusiastic interactions with everyone I've met in the GA world. The good side of social media helping spread the enthusiasm for GA
2. The concerning growth (possibly also the dark side of social) of NIMBY efforts caused at least in part by misinformation due to a lack of understanding as well as intentionally being misrepresented due to developers wanting to take over valuable real estate. Aviation in general isn't a cheap endeavor but the most recent issues highlighted in Vegas show other threat vectors to keeping GA for everyone
3. Not quite 5 years, but a member of and supporting both EAA and AOPA
And heck YES to the Albatross!
Your bond as twins is an incredibly special thing that most of the world will never understand. My dad is a twin (his name is Mark and my uncle's name is Mike!), and to this day they still experience uncanny things and know things about each other that neither of them should rightly know, even when they're separated from each other. I have no doubt, Mike, that your voice and presence when Mark was in the ICU is what brought him back (as I'm sure you know). The presence of family can help access the deepest memories and feelings your body holds and can give you an incredible amount of strength when you need it most. This hold more true for twins than with almost any bond I have ever observed. As an observer of your life, it is an incredible inspiration to see what you and Mark have done with your families and careers. Thank you for sharing a piece of your life with us, and thank you for your continued service to your fellow man!
Hi guys. A UK based guy here. I think you already give back a tremendous amount by sharing your lives, builds and aviation experiences with the world, evidenced by the comments you receive on every post I have watched over the years.
However, in the UK there is a charity called Aerobility that you might like to Google. I think something similar in the US fronted by Icons like yourselves would be huge. Just think of the joy you could bring to individuals less fortunate than ourselves. All the best to you in finding your way forward with these fantastic aspirations. You guys are amazing.
YES on the Albatross!!!!!! One of my favorites. Team with Margaritaville and call it the Hemisphere Dancer II.
I agree! Phins Up!! Always! Hard to believe Jimmy is in his beach house on the moon. Hemisphere Dancer II, has such a nice ring! 🦈to the left! 🦈to the right, I'm the only girl in town!! 🌴🦜
What a great tribute to a great airman and waterman, Jimmy BUffett, who brought so much life and love to so many of us an Albatross would be.
My dad is a GA pilot, brother is a commercial pilot, and I am just starting flight training and building a kit experimental helicopter in parallel. My experience in GA is limited as I am just getting started. The cost of GA has been a huge deterrent for me.
1. What's going right? Without question, the community. Aviation brings people together and for the most part is filled with extremely generous individuals who are happy to share their passion and support others, whether it's taking someone up on their first flight, or helping someone with their home built. I am sure you both will get a lot of support in making GA better for everyone because we are all in this together.
2. What's going wrong?
2.1 The cost of GA has far out paced the wages in the last 20 years. My father was able to buy and fly plane as a middle class individual, but I don't think that is possible today. Light sport, and experimental kits seem to be the only real entry point, and even then, it's still pretty expensive. Reducing the regulations might make things cheaper, but at the cost of safety? I don't know what the solution is. Operating cost is huge when you consider annuals and purchasing certified parts. Not everyone should be working on their own planes, but for those who enjoy building and maintaining planes a much as we fly them, there should be a solution for those individuals.
2.2 Finding quality flight instructors. Many of them are using it for time building. Turnover is huge and the training is poor.
3. I haven't been part of an association for more than 5 years.
Apologies for not having any current suggestions. I used to fly- was knocking out the last steps to get my license but got too expensive. There isn’t much you can do about that. But, I tune in because I love the content and the “get back to work drive.” Much respect to the both of you and to your families. You are truly just good people.
Mark, your story resonates with me. Seven years ago I went down with sepsis. I was a different bacteria but it leveled me. I was one sick puppy and the doctors told my wife I may not make it. I spent two week in hospital, but am still here. I am glad you are too.
Be careful we still need You guys!!!😮😢😊
You two make me wish my brother liked me. What a joy having your best pal as a coworker, and business partner.
I think they have their faults, but their attributes is they are rational, calm, and clear-headed which augments their relationships. No doubt they're good and well meaning dudes.
yeah.. im only 23 and my bro is 25, havent talked to him in 2 years. this stuff gets me man. im just glad theyre alive though. these guys are such an inspiration
Mike and Mark, your message hits home hard, both the carpe diem, and the awe of what aviation can give us. I'm a 1300 hour SEL pilot, grew up in central Alaska, dad was a government health aid worker, rescue mountaineer, glider pilot, glider instructor, CAP volunteer pilot, and had a Taylorcraft that we adventured in when I was a teen. I taught him how to snowboard when he was 65 and he became a certified instructor at 70, teaching in Utah. Sadly, he died the next year. Got my license at age 34 in a C-140 taildragger. Dad said if I could learn in a taildragger, they'd just seem like airplanes, not some exotic threat. That was some of the best advice I ever took. I helped a friend build a Glasair Sportsman, and have ended up owning and modifying two Glastars, rigging the latest one one with a T3 tailwheel and 31" Alaska Bushwheels, and touring the backcountry in my home state of Alaska.
1) I feel so privileged that I've been able to keep a license, and own two airplanes, and move freely from certified to EAB. Compared to many places, GA is incredibly open in the US. But there's a lot to do to keep it that way.
2) It's not that hard to argue that insurance has more power over us pilots than government, and that's a tough problem. I'm trying to set up my 17 year old son to learn in the same plane I learned in, a Cessna 140 -- a certified aircraft! used for training for decades -- and literally EVERYTHING is lined up to make it work, yet insurance may literally have the final say about whether he can live that dream or not. Seems pretty wrong.
2a) I think every small airplane on the planet should have calibrated audio angle of attack with at least three if not FOUR distnict audio signal levels, and the practice of landing to proper lift reserve should be integrated 100% into fundamental training for EVERY STUDENT PILOT. Landing to a well calibrated audio angle of attack keeps the pilot's eyes ENTIRELY outside the plane, automatically compensates for loading and density, and yet delivers the most consistent, safest information to the pilot to create safe landings in essentially every condition. If you need a high performance STOL landing, the audio angle of attack comes closer to guaranteeing it than anything else I've experienced. Plus, properly training the initial super-conservative AoA audio levels can be used to keep the aircraft completely out of the stall-spin zone. Distracted or simply unrefined student accidentally comes too close to spin/stall in a poorly executed pattern? first level Audio AoA comes on and student has been trained to automatically lower the nose and add power no matter what. Out of trouble just like that. I have never seen a more powerful tool for keeping landings consistently controlled and pilots safe. What if all landings by every pilot were safer? Heck, might even help with the insurance issue.
3)I'm an AOPA member and an EAA member for many years, and I've been a Young Eagles pilot for many kids, and mentored many of them into deeper involvement in aviation.
WOW, I had no idea we almost lost Mark!! Thank God he pulled through that! Great project lineup, fellas - can’t wait to see them all.👍👍
Not being funny or anything, but why would you thank god? We should be thanking the doctors and nurses and other emergency services staff that saved him. Or Marks body for pulling through.
@@MrOvertSandStormdo you not recognize God in this story? How he pulled thru miraculously, or when the brothers talk about "what's important?"
@@jefferyg3504 No I don't. I'm pretty agnostic to atheist, so I never think about 'god'. Surely this happened through the skill and wonder of modern scientific medicine, and by the chemistry of Mark's body, which was able to recover during his time in intensive care. In this day and age, you honestly believe this was divine intervention? These are my thoughts anyway, not trying to insult anyone.
God certainly had a hand in this. You have to know that God has been and will be in chef from the beginning to the end.
@@jefferyg3504 With some, “You can lead a horse to water …” .
1) The community of GA is wholesome and welcoming.
2) The entry and financial help for blue collar working Americans. Most scholarships are based around high school/college students (which is great!) But severely limits men and women that wish to accomplish their dreams later in life. Certified low cost workshops even for the ground portion would be a immense help. Who doesn’t work with someone that says “I always wanted to be a pilot, but could never afford it”
3) I only started flying two years ago so no memberships at this time.
You guys are really the essence of what I aspire to be! You guys are talking about leaving more behind, than 'just' showing us, you having fun. I can tell you, you guys 'just' having fun - has already moved thousands of people and everybody is praising your contribution to this wonderful world of aviation!
Thank you. Thank you for everything you have done and thank you for what you are going to do in the future! If I could, I would love to contribute to your questions, but I still have my PPL waiting for me in my near future! Thank you for moving my attention into aviation, there is no doubt in my mind that it is also where I will spend a lot of my time, for the rest of my life. Much love to both you, Mike, and you wonderful brother Mark and your beautiful families!
God speed and much respect from a young guy in Denmark!!
BACK TO WORK!! 💪
Glad you're both still here - the world would be worse off without you!
Nothing changes the direction of your life more than a near death experience. Glad you both get another chance. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you guys are well the world needs more people like you two!
Both Mike and Mark have already done SO MUCH for aviation... I can't even fathom asking them for more. They've been incredible ambassadors for General Aviation and are 2 of the best guys to ever come out o Utah. Love them both.
1) We have a shortage of A&P ... possibly sponsor people into this critical element of Aviation... help folks see this as a worthy life goal ... 2) What can you do to help us kit builders who don't have your level of knowledge and confidence complete successfully ? what seminars could you hold or workshops ? ... the kit arena is so necessary given the cost of cert. planes ... helping to grow would be wonderful. 3) Maybe become your own honor system where you award builders / Pilots with recognition having completed necessary work through your efforts. You two are amazing ... I really appreciate you and your individual and collective efforts ... thanks !
The biggest problem being an A&P is pay and the up/down cycles of aviation as a whole. I left being an A&P and went into the medical field, much better pay, never have to get skydrol in my eyes, never have to work outside in -15 to 100 degree temps, No getting stuck between the rudder pedals of a lear 35.... When I got out of A&P school McDonalds was paying more than 1/2 of the industry. In 2000 our shop rate was $55 hr for piston and $65hr for turbine work. Most auto dealerships were charging $90-130hr. Remember the old saying the only reason you can't find people is because you're not paying enough! Pay and they will come!
Its hard to survive on A&P wages these days, combined with the liability and bureaucracy it kills the passion pretty quickly. I still work in aviation, but won't be touching civilian aircraft for the foreseeable future. Even when I do, I hope its only my own homebuilt, if I ever get around to building one.
I must admit, I had tears in my eyes when Mark talked about his near death experience. Good to see you're back at it!
My greatest thought about aviation where I live, Norway, is that it's extremely expensive. Not many have funds to own their own aircrafts, and the few clubs available have not that many "time share" aircrafts as I call them. You buy a piece of the craft and share all expenses on it, and have limited time to the aircraft for flying. This works, but there should be more available, and prices should be more manageable.
I really want my own motorized glider. My grandfather was a WW2 fighter pilot and one of his biggest dreams was for me to become a pilot myself. When my time came for mandatory military service, the military placed me in the Navy. (Not complaining, I've had loads of fun and it have opened many doors for me later on). But my ticket to a pilot license and the actually use for it went out the window as I kind of relied on getting on through the military.
Now, as I've become older, past my 40's and racing close to 50. I'm in a good place with family, work, financial etc. But aircrafts are still CRAZY expensive here in Norway, and gliders are a bit cheaper. And... another reason for me wanting to get a glider is... My grandfather always wanted me to start with gliders from I was 16 years old, but my parents did not approve of it. Norway is a beautiful country from both land and air, and sailing above, relaxing and "disconnect" from work is a dream for me.
So, option 2 is probably the only thing I can answer you on that can give a meaningful output.
If Mark (or both of you) start a "Time Share" aircraft leasing business to help others into getting up in the air. You could stand as the majority owner of a craft, and have spots open for others. This might be a way into getting more active pilots... Might also be a paper nightmare with lawyers, so you should consider the drawbacks as well.
PS: If I'm one of the random to get a gift. Please donate to something Children's Hospital ore something similar. I'm always donating to an organization called "Stiftelsen Sykehusbarn" here In Norway.
I’m glad you made it Mark. We need people like you around.
I’ve been a private pilot for about 3 1/2 years. 630 hours. Working on IR currently.
What’s going right in GA?
The freedoms to fly that we ave in America are incredible.
GA opens up so many amazing opportunities.
What’s going wrong? This list is longer.
It’s gotten cost prohibitive.
Hangars are virtually impossible to come by.
FAA medical needs a complete overhaul.
Instruction is primarily done by youngsters who are just building hours and not fully dedicated to instruction.
I’ll reiterate; it’s gotten cost prohibitive for the common man/woman to buy, fly, and maintain an aircraft.
I own a couple of businesses and do pretty well and it’s still a stretch to operate my 182. I don’t know what can be done to change that, but the barrier to entry for GA is insurmountable for many.
I am HONESTLY worried when the (Insane, Literally) government tries to take that right away from us. I'm very serious too!!!
You guys are amazing! I love your thoughtfulness and drive to create.
Thank you for inviting comment. I am a 65 yo retired NZ salesman, private investigative author & blogger, with no aviation involvement but I love your honesty and enthusiasm for your passion for aviation. I joined your channel because of Mark's build videos. Whatever you choose to do, please ensure that those videos still keep coming.
Amen!!
The friendship between you two is very inspiring as a father of 2 boys. I always emphasize to them that they'll have eachother for life and that's the most precious thing. You guys are exactly what I would like them to be when they grow up, not necessarily in terms of financial success, but just how you treat your family.
Happy to know there are still people like you and your brother hanging around on this planet.
1. There's great momentum and community building going on general aviation right now.
2. General aviation still seems to be plagued with accidents and a high incident to death ratio.
3. No association affiliations.
I'm a fan of general aviation. I've had my face pressed against the glass, looking in at all the fun, for many years. From an outsiders perspective, here are the key barriers that I, or anyone in my position, will need to overcome in order to become an insider:
•Enormous financial startup costs and significant ongoing maintenance costs.
•Sometimes the "general" in general aviation makes it difficult to decifer which camp is right for me.
•Space. Aircraft kits are just to bulky to assemble. They are overly time consuming to build so a modest privateer like myself feels pushed toward entry level ultralights and less safe decision making.
My proposal for the Patey Bros:
• Design a GA aircraft that has zero kit components, rather, only accessible materials. One that is the safest in the skies. A plane that is a true quick build. Maybe it uses advanced adhesives instead of rivets. It needs to be jaw dropping cheap ($10-$15k) all in. It needs to operate like a conventional fixed wing aircraft as an ideal time/experience builder. It should be docile and intuitive with just enough delight in flight. It absolutely must be trailer friendly for at-home storage. Lastly, it needs to be a fine looking bird, with charm and simplicity that instills confidence and pride of ownership. The Volkswagen bug of the skies.
In short, I think the greatest contribution you two could give to GA is accessibility.
Love the channel, and so glad Mark is healthy. Best regards,
Ben
I agree completely. Flying should not have to be a life-or-death decision. Better technology could reduce the chances of the pilot making deadly errors.
100% nailed it. Flying is cost-prohibitive, and when something does go wrong in the air, the death ratio shows a HUGE gap in how we've handled the evolution of aircraft vs automobiles.
I know some people dislike ballistic chutes, but if an engine blows and you aren't near a viable strip, or a rookie pilot gets into a spin they can't recover, a parachute WILL save your life. And not just your life, but in many cases will preserve your plane as well (minus repairs). It just seems like such an easy cost-saver / life-saver, I don't understand why they aren't more widespread. Cirrus gets it. Many ultralights get it. It's high time the rest of GA/LSA does too.
@@thecheesedip I don't dislike Ballistic chutes but the repack costs are horrible, the Sirrus chute is 20k to inspect and repack.
@wb6anp sounds prohibitively costly. Crash structures are passive and can be extremely light and cost effective (f1 cars), there seems to be a pursuit of lightness and efficiency that's incompatible with crumple zones, roll cages, bolstered seating. If the aircraft can be designed for passive crash protection, it becomes sacrificial in a crash scenario. I'd be quite happy to walk away from a crash if my aircraft is a total loss...if it only costs $10-$15k.
@@rickwhite2567I have about a million miles of highway driving under my belt.
Technology does not help people keep their eyes on their surroundings. Too busy watching cameras or TV's or phones inside their vehicles. Just like flight eyes out unless imc.
What needs to happen is People paying attention. Driving at resonable speeds.
people paying attention.
people having consideration for other people around them
People paying attention.
People maintaining their vehicles.
People paying attention.
In my opinion if you can't pay attention to what is going on around whatever vehicle you are in, you shouldn't be controlling a vehicle. It should be a privilege and not an entitlement.
Thank you for what you both have done, and are doing for aviation. I have had the privilege of meeting both of you. Aviation has been in my family for many generations from the military to RC planes and will continue with my children. I’m part of EAA, AOPA, FAA, and 25:25 a controller in the ATL area and RV10 owner. I bleed aviation and love it as much as you.
1. Hanger space for GA
2. Cost of entry for student pilots
3. Skyrocketing landing or use fees for flying to lunch somewhere.
4. Uncertainties for AV gas regulations
5. Did I mention hanger space?
6. Airports only catering to Jets and not the local pilots.
Thanks again. Love you guys.
Now back to work, can’t wait to see this old and new projects come to life.
True brothers love! Family is life! Keep friends close and family closer! Cant wait for more content!
Wow guys… what an absolute miracle. As a paramedic, I have a very good understanding of how serious this was. I’m so thankful that you are still here with everyone, Mark. Even though I have never met either of you (yet) I care very much about y’all. Praise God for such a miracle!!!
1) You two and other fun aviation content creators are the best thing happening in aviation right now. You’re stoking energy in the industry and introducing flying to new people.
2) By far the biggest expense of owning an airplane is the cost of the hangar, and they are usually dreary places to hang out. Perhaps you duplicate your Spanish Fork hangar complex in airports across the country.
2.1) Aircraft engines are the second biggest expense. Perhaps you could buy the EPS company and bring the diesel piston to market for the GA industry?
I'm happy both of you are here among us! I really like the idea of the modernized "Van-Life" Albatross!
Areas to Address:
Reduce the overall costs for flying a plane-
1. Economical GA airplane power plants- The Diesel engine (EPS Aero) is a huge loss for GA.
It could have been a family of extremely reliable, reasonable engines (4-8 cyls) which could be retrofitted into older airframes / kitplanes and deliver a reasonable per hour costs of flying. Perhaps resurrect the project and figure out how to make production affordable.
Include propeller pitch control... The reduced pilot workload of a water cooled, single lever engine operation could attract new pilots.
2. A PC based Arduino/PC flight panel that is reasonably priced to be able to retrofit into older airplanes & new build kits. Something with pre-assembled wiring harnesses to make quick and fast installation for the most popular aircraft in GA.
3. Get the FAA to set a maximum limit liability for GA lawsuit awards.
All the best,
M-
Hi guys…I’m somewhat of a newcomer to aviation (got PPL in 20’s and then stopped flying for 20 years before deciding to become a pro pilot in May of last year) and I’ve been really enjoying your videos.
1. What’s going right in aviation? Well…in my world, the thing that is going right for me and the thousands of guys that have flocked to my channel is that the career opportunities in aviation have never been better. If you want to fly as your profession, this is literally the best time in history to do it.
2. What’s going wrong in aviation? From my POV, there is a few things that need fixing. #1 is the DPE shortage. The fact that pilots have to wait months for a check ride is nuts. #2 is the cost of training. Most schools tell students that they should expect to spend $100K and train for 12-18 months to become a CFI. That is nuts. I went from PPL to CFI in 91 days for $47K. Considering that most pilots become a CFI in approximately 250-270 hours, why on earth does it need to cost so much and take so long? 270 hours divided by 180 days is only 1.5 hours of flying a day. Bottom line: I think flight schools are broken and students are paying the price (literally).
3. I’m a member of NAFI…but only recently.
Should you choose to work on any of the problems above, I’d be happy to help!
Thanks!
Incredible stories guys! Glad you both are still here to keep enriching lives!
What’s most amazing is that there are two of you. Keep up the outstanding work.
Thanks for the opportunity to add our input and thank you both for your passion about growing GA.
#1 - The community in GA is growing and vibrate
#2 - Serious shortage in GA mechanics, issue with small airports not being properly managed and driving people out due to lack of hangars
#3 - Member of EAA and AOPA
and cost of hangers, the cheapest near me is 300/month and that is on a private strip, most common is 600 to 1400 even those have a 2 yr or more waiting list. I have been considering selling my house and finding enough property somewhere big enough to build a strip and a house, it would be cheaper in the long run.
God Bless you both!
Hi Mike and Mark. First of all thank you for being aviation pioneers of our generation, ya'll are living legends. I am inspired and a big fan.
My name is Leso from South Africa. I am a certified FAA A&P+IA and private pilot.
I only have one suggestion, and it is as follows:
1. Being an Aircraft Mechanic for a good amount of years and a passionate aviator, my biggest concern and fear is a catastrophic engine failure.
I commend Rotax for the development of the new engines to help the entry flying market with new, affordable and reliable engines.
Take nothing away from the traditional engine marker like Lycoming and Continetal their engines stood the test of time but the fact is that something has to be done about the recent spike in engine failures that leads to loss of lives of the inexperienced student pilots. Yes we overhaul the engines but what is not noted or spoken about is the bad habits the engines had to endure in operation for the last 50 years. Metal has memory.
Solution. Mark and Mike, please look into building a new aviation engine and get STCs for such engines to be used on all or most of traditional trainer airplanes.
I am a member of Aviation Development Africa and EAA.
A very important need in GA is improving the safety. This will help ensure it's survival by preventing restrictive rules etc. as well as limiting insurance costs etc. Adding your game to what Dan Gryder is doing (not thinking finance but your endorsement as often as you can). This area (safety) is so impactful for all society, not just pilots, as the media only gets loud over accident, especially fatals. Thanks. Love you guys and so glad you are all well!
Thanks guys for being such good influences for aviation!!
1. Mosaic a good thing
2. Shortage of a&p’s
3 lifetime member EAA
Dear mike, You and your brother mark are Icons in the aviation industry. You have inspired and motivated tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. You both have incredible personalities, Mind-blowing skills as engineers, fabricators and entrepreneurs. I feel that mark
has the wisdom and Knowledge to Pilot the icon A5 Program to finish line. They have failed their customers And all of the new potential aviators. An aircraft In that category and price range Should have opened the doors to aviation to the masses. We all know the countless reasons that they failed To deliver the product. I know your team could fix it! With many prayers to you and your family,
Respect and love. Joshua Johnson
P.S. there is a beautiful wilga Not wanting to spend another winter outside, sitting at the big lake airport in Alaska
PBY yes,yes.
Guys, you are the best thing in aviation history today. I have followed and watched Mikes builds for a while. From my meager perspective to aviation is the cost. I got my pilots license in my 40’s. Growing up I have always thought that flying was for the wealthy. Today I am still far from wealthy. A friend and I have the privilege to acquire our LSRM certification in a couple months. I have been a member of EAA and AOPA since around 2014. Have been a volunteer for our local young eagles event two times a year since 2013. How can the average Joe enjoy the great world of aviation? Henry Ford understood that need in the automotive industry in his early days.
I, too, have had a near death issue. Started vomiting, then went to bed with a bucket. 6 days later, I wake up in recovery with a lovely nurse saying the 2 neurosurgeons went up my nose & took my swollen, bleeding with a benine tumor piturity gland out. They said I am 1 in 2.5 million that survive. I love your channel's Mike & Mark....😊
Good to hear you survived. How is your recovery doing and if i may ask how did you get to the hospital?
@@dontknow3886 helicopter a Kawasaki.
Recovery is slow. My life has done a complete 360....
Wow!! Me too! Some plaque broke loose and plugged my Widow maker. I was dead for 4 minutes. Thank god my wife was sitting there or I wouldn't have survived! I was in ICU for 5 days as well. They were really worried about my brain surviving Annoxia! I was a healthy fit guy and I never had angina. I got sick at the kitchen sink , threw up, sat on the couch and died. I then spent two weeks in a rehab center and I recovered quickly. Wonderful surgeon and everyone who saved me. I feel so lucky to be here!! 😁
I can add my 2cents. Notice the small improvements and work on being grateful. Have short term and long term goals that include other's help and planning. Being close to death gives you a valuable insight.
I noticed that when my goals get put out there they end up being answered prayers. I am pretty careful about my requests these days.
Keep on getting better.
@kensnyder2340 Yes, Ken, was a real eye opener as I just went to bed, slept, then awoke. They also said this was happening over a 8 year period. Ever so slowly going downhill, without ever noticing. Only two things that i did notice was I couldn't click my fingers and couldn't whistle. Never thought anything of it...???
Awesome video guys. As a Critical Care Paramedic, I see lives changed in an instant. So glad you both are here to continue giving back.
1. TRAINING! We are losing too many lives in General Aviation. Why do we keep killing ourselves, but 135 and 121 pilots have a stellar safety record? I am 52 and started my pilot journey just 3 years ago. I have less than 500 hours but I can attest, that training simply got me in the air. I've had to purposefully seek out further training away from learning maneuvers. Upset recovery is great, but what are the things that are likely to kill me. I take my wife, kids and grandkids flying and it weighs heavy on me the responsibility I have to keep them safe. We desperately need a structured training program for pilots far away from the training it takes to get the certificate. I see people discuss "AQP" and other acronyms and while I don't think the name matters, I think it it very clear we need more training on deadly scenarios. Let's focus on what is taking out GA Pilots and then create a structured training program to create muscle and brain memory to react to those scenarios.
I'm happy that you're doing well now Mark. There's something to be said about the power of twins.
Thank god you’re both still with us, the world would be worse off without either of you.
Man I wish I had a brother, it’s so cool seeing you guys just hanging out. I have identical twin daughters, I hope they stay this close as they get older.
Glad the BOTH of you made it through each of your life "scares"!!!
1) I love the passion that GA has. I got my PPL in Dec partially because of people like Mike Patey and Trent Palmer. I also love what UA-cam has done for GA. It has shown what is possible and what is out there. I never knew these planes or even the industry at all until I started seeing videos on UA-cam. So good job spreading the news there.
2) Cost. Everything is SO expensive. This might not be something you can truly help with, but as a regular Joe who does not fly for a business, I just fly out of my own pocket, it's expensive.
3) I'm and EAA Member and an AOPA member, but only since July of last year, as that's when I started my ground school. You guys are doing amazing things. I'm inspired by what you do, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
I am glad the both of you are OK. You are an inspiration for all of us amateur builders and business owners, or at the very least to me!
As for your questions, I am most interested and hopeful in what is coming down the pipe with MOSAIC. I think expanding the Light Sport category is a great idea. I would love to see the sport category regulations include more advanced aircraft, similar to Europe, where a constant speed prop or even retractable gear are allowed. I have high hopes for what the future holds in the world of LSA's (OK, I mostly fly LSA's and both aircraft I have built/am building qualify as LSA's, so that is a particular interest of mine). Many people seem to discount the light sport arena, but I think it has a lot to offer, especially in the experimental realm. Plus, I think options like the Light Sport Repairman are a great thing, opening doors for people to be more involved with their own aircraft and helping keep costs of ownership down, making aviation more accessible to more people. It even has started a whole new business path for folks wanting to be aviation mechanics, which is great considering the world today.
The biggest concern I have is around medical certification for airmen. I am switching to BasicMed as it meets my needs, so I am happy that there has been some improvement in this arena. The issue I see is one of fairness. I know several pilots who have had medical incidents that are 'disqualifying' and lost their flying privileges with no hope for getting them back. In almost all of these cases there would be no risk at all for operating a LSA or other GA aircraft, but due to the circumstances, the FAA has denied a medical and that is that. Hard stop. Meanwhile, with a slightly different set of circumstances, I know of other pilots who still fly with virtually identical histories who can just operate under either BasicMed or the LSA 'drivers license' requirements. This raises a huge issue where someone who is more than competent and medically capable is not allowed to fly, where another, who is in the same boat, is. I would love to see someone push on the FAA to reform the medical regulations to make them more inclusive to folks who have had issues but are fully recovered and can have medical professionals back that claim. This is a huge issue and I know of several folks who have really been beaten down by the FAA on this despite full medical clearance from multiple professionals. I do understand that for a professional ATP pilot, caution needs to be taken around medical issues or conditions, but for someone wanting to fly a LSA or a 172, it's a different story.
OK, I'll get off my soap-box. As for the third question, I am a long-time EAA member (15+ years), and have visited several local chapters, and in the past was much more active in the local chapter. I am also a long-time AOPA member (also 15+ years), but not very active on that front.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! I look forward to seeing the next big projects you guys both bring to fruition!
Oh please buy the albatross asap. I have been in love with the albatross since i was a kid. You would be fulfilling a childhood dream for me. That would be the absolute #1 project.
I work in aviation and I’m about to get my PPL license, just for fun. My flight school is nice but we’re still flying on 1978 C172N. My ideas to you: 1) Design a trainer that would revolutionize and lower the cost of initial PPL and IFR ratings (do what the Cessna Skycather was meant to do but unfortunately failed. 2) Another idea is to design a modern 2 seater to be an entry path into aircraft ownership. Better performing than typical LSAs but still docile and suitable to the average-skilled pilot (maybe a Cirrus-like 2 seater?). Love you guys! All the best, Breno
Absolutely loved the video! Mark, God's blessings on you. I'll definitely be praying for you, and may you make a full recovery. As for the three questions: 1. I might mention both of you, and others like you who so generously give of themselves to make it better. Definitely air shows and get-to-gethers are wonderful for those of us who have been driven out of full participation. 2. I probably don't know enough to make a very educated comment as a former student, and nearly licensed one (35+ hrs), it was expense, expense, expense. (My brother in a higher income bracket, owned and flew regularly several planes including multi-engine, pressurized, etc. , but is now retired. We now talk aviation a lot.) 3. Mark, I don't feel qualified to give you further suggestions, but will be praying that you find the one(s) that will bring God's blessings to you and others. Thank you that both you and Mike are so generously sharing the blessings God has and is bringing your way.
1: General Aviation is growing! So awesome that aviation people have dove into UA-cam and Instagram and continue to grow this awesome industry that we all love.
2: affordability and public perception are both really struggling in the industry right now. It's too much to go into here, but a renewed focus on PR issues surrounding aviation and accessibility is absolutely essential.
3: I've been an AOPA and EAA member for over a decade and strongly support both organizations, both for their work from a public policy/political standpoint, as well as how they support the aviation industry and pilot community.
Lastly, do a Mike Patey Edition turbine Albatross!! That would be incredible.
i always had a feeling there was a special connection between twins. so glad for mark and all of you that he pulled through. that would have been an nightmare. ❤
Long-time follower and huge fan of all you do. 1) Safety is what is going right in aviation. Accident rates are coming down thanks to improved training, better avionics, access to in-flight aviation and traffic. 2) The list for improvements in aviation is long but we all know that the pilot community will only survive and improve if we grow the number of pilots flying. The list you guys suggested is great. You know the hot topics, plane cost, fuel cost, regulations preventing technology from being quickly adopted into new and used planes, airport closures is a huge problem, hangar access, etc. This list leads to my recommendation for Mark. He needs to replace Mark Baker as AOPA President since announcing his departure in January. I don't think anyone would be a better advocate for pilots than Mark Patey. Mark has the business skills to manage and motivate a large organization. You understand the problems. You are an inspiration for new and old pilots (the cool factor is there). You are well known and have the respect of active pilots and many of those wanting to get their license. 3) I am a lifetime member of AOPA and EAA and I am also a member of the Coeur d'Alene Flyers, Idaho Aviation Association, and Fitchburg Pilots Association. Do it Mark!
Mark, so glad you're still here.
1. What’s going correct: safety is talked about more than ever and more scholarships for young people every day 2. There are two very different kinds of pilots out there, one seems to have money to burn and the other are sacrificing everything just to fulfill their dreams, it would be great if they had more scholarships for the older crowd to add on another rating , IFR / Commercial to possibly make a career change or just be a safer pilot 3. Proud EAA , AOPA and Minnesota pilots member. Keep doing what you’re doing, it definitely makes the world a better place
God bless you both! Thank you for all of efforts in aviation. Looking forward to your plans!!
Glad you’re both okay! God is amazing and he’s not done with you yet.
1. Whats going right in Aviation - positive social media (ex. You Both, Cletus and Dave Sparks). Whats going wrong in Aviation - the actual cost for the average citizen (license, flight time / training). Not enough people around us to support said adventure. 3. 5 year falloff is real, 3 year fall off is real, in fact 2 year falloff is most likley if your #2 is not met. You just become a spectator, ill watch and research type of person, wish i could type of person,a rc plane type of person. As close as i can get type of person.
You guys are the greatest! I have met you a couple times at OSH (Mike, you and I had a long conversation at the B&C booth a few years ago - you are as personable and passionate as you are in your videos+++), (Mark you and I discussed tugs "at an affordable range for the < 40k aircraft people). I love how much both of you have contributed to the advancement and safety (and training) in aviation things that I have interests in. I know you are involved with gobs of other things also! I am certain your heart and "give back" mindset makes those ventures as fantastic as you have made your contributions to me!!!
I try to be like you when working on projects (others and my own) getting people involved and making a difference.
As far as the list:
1) We are so fortunate in the US to have these freedoms to get so involved with aviation. I have lived and visited other countries. One does not grasp this until you hear what THEY have to do in order to do aviation things!
2) I am concerned about the reductions of requirements in A&Ps and the forecasted shortages. Watching what Boeing has gotten in trouble with (focusing on margins over safety and pushing timeframes to "get things out the door" (from a friend of mine that works for Boeing). I am seeing MANY of the "old" A&P/IA retiring (or just throwing up their hands and saying it is not worth the stress/frustration/etc.). I have enough hours and have signoff to take my tests - I have NEVER worked on pressurized cabins, turbine, and jet engines... yet I am REQUIRED to know what I am doing! #3 will go into what I would like to happen.
3) a) Make a catagory of A&P/IA that is GA specific (say up to 12,000 lbs and not jet/turbine) [kinda like the SLA Rotax program]
b) Make MOSAIC like what it originally was intended. Be able to introduce experimental like things (e.g. glass cockpit, engine swaps, other mods) for certified non training aircraft. We used to be able to do that, then it was shut down (pretty much when experimental aircraft (from scratch) really took off. There are a LOT of aging aircraft that will remain on the ramps and dusty in hangers as bringing them back with original parts is just no longer feasible (availability as well as cost when they can be found is HIGH).
c) Like the idea of extending the SLA to include some of these aging plans (makes more sense than the "ya gotta by a 300k airplane to be SLA because all the Luscombe and ercoupe C are sold" - HOWEVER, not so sure I like the mcDonalds menu of options.
d) Shortage of instructors NOT going into the airlines. As the demand for airline pilots go up (and hr requirements go down), the turnover rate at airports that I am involved with has a MUCH higher turnover rate that I have ever seen. If the Govt has 7.4 billion dollars to give away to college students that took useless college courses (and now cannot get a good job to pay them off) - the purse strings should be opened to the aviation world to encourage LONG TERM instructors some how.
e) Help EAA get focused on EXPERIMENATAL aircraft - rather than "anything aviation". I feel that they have lost Paul Poberezny objective and now have become an "if it makes us money we are in" (as I open my 3rd solicitation for money mail from them this week).
Best of luck (and health) to the two of you and your supporting families in so you can continue to inspire and encourage people to be like you!
M.
Hey guys I'm 63 years old and I have a Brother 16 months younger than me we are closer than ever in life. Family all we should come first and two brothers should always stay close love you guys and your story is super important
Glad that you recovered Mark.
I am a mentor for a high school build a plane program at Tehachapi Airport. Would be nice if there were more programs like this to inspire youth. By sponsoring these programs. We are building a RV-10 & a RV -9.
I have been a member of AMA Flying & building RC planes and jets. For over 35 years. I worked on the B-2 for Northrop in flight test for 33 years.
I wish the FAA would leave line of sight model flying alone.
Biggest problem with avation is the cost. Wish it was less expensive to fly.
I love the idea of getting this into school programs, helping influence our youth and getting them involved young.
Glad y’all are healthy and are able to be around to share your love but also be here for your families.
1. I’m retired aerospace. My father was a WWII vet who was a gunner on B-17s, later a Mechanic on P-47s. He always got us involved in Model Rockets, U-control model airplanes and RC model airplanes. For me this involvement resulted in a 35 year career in aerospace on some pretty awesome programs. Today, I still fly Model RC airplanes. What I notice in our club is there are no youngsters at all, just retired old guys. If you can figure out how to attract young people into aviation, whether it’s Model aviation or general aviation, that would create great possibilities, good times and possibly awesome careers. Please do something to get youngsters jazzed and involved in aerospace.
2. Safety seems to be a problem in commercial aircraft lately, this sucks and is dragging down the industry.
3. I’m a long time member of AMA, American Modelers Association, does this count, lol.
Love you guys, glad you are both ok.
gov regulation is killing the RC hobby and aviation. too much BS and cost for no reason.
Almost the exact same suggestion as me. I'm an engineer, not really an aviation nerd, but I got my drive for engineering when I was little from working on various projects with my dad. It has driven my whole career. Most people do not have any real passion, or very little drive. I want to see youth outreach programs to get kids interested as early as possible. Could be model airplanes, could be general aviation maintenance, etc. I just want kids to find something they're passionate about and make a career out of it instead of working meaningless jobs they hate for the rest of their lives.
Cost of entry to GA is too high, wages too low.
Nobody's thinking about owning an aircraft when they are having trouble putting food on the table.
Model aircraft are not exactly affordable either, and at least in Canada it's more trouble (paperwork) to fly model aircraft than it is to fly a real one, if you can even find a field you're allowed to fly at.
The kids that are getting into aviation now are doing so in front of their computer screens, with simulators and UA-cam videos.
I was also in the aerospace industry, worked at Rocketdyne space engine division. I am also an rc flyer in the Boise area.
I have always enjoyed aviation, but i too have kept my experience strictly to rc models both planes, jets, and helicopters. Member of the AMA past 7 years
5 plus year member of EAA and AOPA, your third question reveals the way Mark can have the largest positive impact on general aviation. Mark should replace Mr. Baker at AOPA if and only if the board will give him the authority and support to refocus the organization to improve general aviation. The numbers and infrastructure are there, it just needs a wise leader with the right goals and motivations.
Wow, this is one of your best videos yet.
1. Aviation information is so easy to obtain these days.
2. There seems to be a lot more accidents these days. They also seem to be easily avoidable ones as well
3. Your influence in general aviation is already amazing. I could see you being a voice to pilots, NSTB and FAA. Training for GA needs a voice that you possess.
I’ve been a member of AOPA and AMA (RC) for years
Back in the early 70's my dad was seaplane fishing on a lake in Canada and came across a guy with a PBY Catalina converted into a RV/motorhome. It had a full bathroom with a gravity shower, master bedroom, and kitchen. He told my dad he was considering putting turbines on it instead of the Pratt & Whitneys, who knows what became of it? YES Build it and film IT!!!!!
Mike & Mark, retired cockpit designer here. We lose many pilots every year to loss of control accidents. Seems to me with the advent of AHRS in light airplanes there should be an economical way to design a retrofittable recovery system that could take over if an unusual attitude is sensed. Of course it could be turned off for training if needed. If it was cheap enough to be retrofitted to all the existing Cessnas and Pipers etc the benefits could be multiple. First saving lives from loss of control accidents and possibly inadvertent flight into IMC but it could also lower the insurance costs that have skyrocketed in recent years. I have some other ideas and would love to talk to you about them.
So glad to hear that you both experienced miracles! It’s great to hear updates and can’t wait to hear what you do to impact aviation even more!
The big things that would help with general aviation: 1. Mental health reform with FAA. 2. Bringing down aircraft and insurance costs. Those two things will do wonders for getting more people into aviation. The cost for second hand aircraft over the last 10 years (last 3-4 specifically) has gone up significantly, which has barred me personally from pursuing an aircraft purchase.
Love your channel. Simply amazed.
Glad you guys are still around!!
I would like to see the cost of getting into general aviation come down enough that more people can enjoy it!!
Keep up the good work!!
I’ve survived ecoli sepsis three times :/ my infections were asymptomatic, but luckily the sepsis was not. The first time was when our second child was 5 weeks old. Poor John (grammer) thought he was going to lose me.
I’m so glad you survived too!
Based on my own near death experience, I suspect Mark, that you will come to terms with the experience mainly because you were likely unconscious through the worst of it. Be aware that it is not so easy for your loved ones who had to stand by and watch it happen. For them, they would have felt helpless and now wonder if something like this will happen to you in the future and they will live with that for a long time. Appreciate their love and reassure them regarding their concerns....don't make the mistake is dismissing their concerns. Glad you are okay now.
Lots of good things to come. Love it and back to work!!
My number one would be the cost of getting a PPL and purchasing a simple 4 seat aircraft to travel with your family. I am in Law Enforcement and feel I make ok money but having two kids and day to day expenses have priced me out of a dream of being a private pilot. I think the requirement of ADS-B has made flying safer and I only see better advancements in the future. And for Marks 3 question, I am a member of AOPA. I got hook on flying in the 80’s when my uncle took me up in his Bonanza A-36 and to feed my addiction I began to build and fly RC planes. Later I build a home simulator with Microsoft FS and for my work I get to fly around NV transporting inmates for extradition, but my goal is to have a simple plane (Piper Cherokee, Cessna 172 or 182) to travel around in with my family. Hope this helps with your questions Mike and Mark. Thank you
I'm not a pilot, but I feel I can offer you a "outside looking in" perspective
1 What's right? Technology and safety. Its exceedingly rare to hear of injuries or deaths caused by defective planes/parts/equipment. It's usually pilot error, and then usually an error in judgement.
2 What's wrong? Cost. Plain and simple. This is not a hobby the average person can get into. You have to have the love of flying just to spend the $$$ to learn even HOW to fly. Maybe that's really a good thing, as it limits GA to dedicated people and not just 'flavor of the month types'.
Some of us are content to live vicariously thru you and your videos. I know I am. I got my interest in aviation from my grandfather who was a fighter pilot in the Luftwaffe in WW2. But I know that I don't have the level of dedication required to do it myself. Still... one can marvel at the skill and ingenuity you guys display in designing something even a simple as a gust lock.
Valid point! My brother is a 747 captain and I started flying GA when I was 13. We both love flying, but only 1 of us made it a career due to the cost and time commitment. We definitely need to do better in terms of making the sport both safer and more affordable.
You guys are awesome, keep up the good work, stay safe and healthy, blue skies ! ❤
1.) Access to GA - IMO you used to have to "know someone" to get involved in GA. I think that's improved - 2.) FBO's and City municipalities that see their airports as cash cows. Crazy FBO fee's, cities not renewing long time leases going after "Jet" business, "landing" fees - etc. Certified aircraft pricing - new aircraft aren't being built in the same number as the legacy GA fleet is slowly disappearing. LSA flopped and could be improved/renewed. 3.) EAA - AOPA - I thought the Albatross may have been it - that answer is absolutely yes!
I’ve always thought an Albatross with PW120’s would be a fun ride…
Good response. GA Airports are no longer welcoming. Either socially and certainly financially. Need to open the seemingly closed network. More clubs? What about gliders? Those clubs used to be the cradle of careers.
The two of you have already given so much of yourselves to aviation. PLEASE enjoy your lives and quality time with your beautiful families. Personally, I'd love to see both of you work on a project together. We've seen the projects Mike has built over the years, now that your retired Mark, enjoy that life you've built for yourself. Certainly you've earned it! I'm so thankful that God spared you, there's a reason for that. Only knowing you both through UA-cam, I know you both love your families, Aviation and businesses you've built. You put your hearts and soles into everything you do. THANK YOU FOR THAT!
Now that you Mark have Officially retired, I know you'll stay busy. More builds WITH videos please. Question for you Mark: With your medical emergency, will you have any issues with an FAA medical in the future? Question for Mike: The Albatross is a massive project; Can you do that and still work? Time to retire yourself?
What can the both of you do for aviation? EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING!! Your builds, the videos and more time for the both of you are motivation for all of us. together. Stay happy, healthly, spend precious time together and BACK TO WORK!
God bless the Patey families!
To both of you Patey brothers. Thank you for your inspiring efforts, and innovation, and passion for aviation. I feel that most of us pilots feel that aviation gives a sense of freedom and exploration as well as some kind of magnetic connection to the early pioneers of aviation. Especially those that fly cubs or similar planes.
Mike I met you before you put the name on Draco, I flew one of your legacy’s from Morgan airport to you down in Utah valley with York Zentner. You’re a gracious host and kind to all. At the time I had no idea who you were, just a cool guy with really cool toys and race car mounted on your wall.
To answer your questions
1. What’s going well:
Leaders and those who inspire like you, Trent Palmer and many more that bring authentic attention to the possibilities of anyone getting into aviation.
2. What needs improvement: better options to carbon cubs, husky’s, Kitfox, etc.
I feel that there is potential of someone with resources being able to build better back country cub equivalent planes that don’t have the $360k price tag the puts most of us out of the market. I do like experimental class. I fly a smith cub and it’s great but would love to upgrade my wings with slats and Fowler pstol flaps. Maybe one day. I’m a chiropractor but a 3rd gen pilot. Watching Trent Palmer motivated me to move from my first plane a Mooney 201 to my Smith cub.
3: I’m a member of the Apoa, Utah Back country association and our local Dirty Dirt pilots club.
Thank you again
Dr Derrick Stanbridge
I was straight up guessing a P-52 but am surprisingly excited about the albatross 😎 & I'm super glad to know you're still fighting the good fight Mark ❤
Perhaps P-51?
1 - We are so lucky what infraastructre we do have in GA In the US. The way to free services in the air and on the ground as private pilots is amazing. Coming from Europe, this is such a gift under appreciated.
2 - Our airports are under attack by housing projects and local politics missing how great the above is.
3 - I am part of the EAA and love love love the freedom and the community around building experimental planes. Plus there are so many unfinished projects out there, I am on number 3, first a Chinook Plus 2, then a Quickie 2 and now a Chipper. Like you said my own lowest possible cost end bookmarks LOL
WANTS/IDEAS
A - Create not just one where you are but many airport communities around existing and maybe new airports with living quarters. That will ensure that the airport won't die because of local politics trying to take over the land around it for other housing. IMHO only people that love to fly understand the benefits and the economy that comes from pilots with pilots. I so wish I could find an affordable place to have a second home that is a hangar at a fun airfield!
B - The experimental building community is aging out, many of the EAA chapters I visit, I am at 56 the youngest which is crazy. Lets bring schools and universities into building planes, designing planes and focus on new tech such as electric, VTOL and other upcoming things the FAA and certified field is decades away from.
What can I do? Not sure but happy to chip in. Weird to put this into comments but lets see what you do with it. And CONGRATS ON BEING ALIVE, glad you both made it!!! Love Robert
Mark, I'm so thankful you made it through all that! This was a very moving video and I'm excited for what's next for both of you!
1. After watching Mike's recent talks on aviation safety, I've been brainstorming ways to promote safety to the aviation community. A few creative ideas come to mind and you would be awesome spokesmen if you were behind them.
2. I'm wondering if you could start a program that would use aviation to help people with autism. My wife just started an autism therapy clinic and I've been thinking about what this might look like for me to try with RC planes. Also, I recently discovered that I have ADHD, so I think there is potential for aviation to make a positive impact in that area as well.
3. I'm really dreaming now, but I wish there were flying clubs with Carbon Cubs so pilots, myself included, could get time in them. I think you should start a chain of Patey flying clubs across the country!
I appreciate what you do for aviation and how you care for people! Keep up the good work!
Please repair and restore Draco. That plane deserves to live.
That's what he is doing (called "Draco-X")
Mike is working g on Draco X in which he plans to improve on the original Draco. He said that there were a few things he wanted to do differently to improve it even more.
After the crash, Mike had said basically it would be too risky to get Draco back in the air again because of all the damage. Your looking at metal fatigue and a huge effort and cost to go through that plane to fix or verify it is solid. As much as I would absolutely LOVE to see Draco fly again I have to agree with his decision.
Because life is precious, it will only live on in spirit. it's not worth flying some individual damaged airframe when others can stand in their place. I'm sure Mike would rebuild it if he felt safety wasn't an issue.
He gave an update on Draco x in this video.