Got it. Total weight for the electrical version is not as bad as the factory air conditioning that I have in mine. The combination of the factory air-conditioning, glass panel avionics and the STC 550 R engine put my useful load at only 571 pounds with full fuel.
Martin Just came across this video, and well remember when I helped you with purchasing the plane. As I remember, it had been air conditioned once, but you got those parts that had been removed in a box! I am sure you and your wife will really enjoy the added comfort this addition provides.
It’s great to hear from you, Don! I remember coming to Houston for the pre-buy inspection, and I am grateful for all the help you provided with that and the buying process. N70TB has been a great airplane for us, and we’ve made it better in many ways than it was when I purchased it: avionics (in multiple steps), IO-550B, and now air conditioning. You are correct, the plane originally had factory AC, but the previous owners had removed that due to repeated maintenance issues with the system and also to improve the useful load. Now that our kids are grown, most of the time it’s just Beckey and me (or even just me) in the plane, so useful load isn’t as important as comfort. I remember how you described the value of AC when we met in Houston; your words were something like “…there’s just something about a woman when she realizes her make-up is running down her face…”. Of course, I enjoy it, too, and the Kelly Aerospace AC has less weight and performance penalties than the original Beech AC, and no limitations for phase of flight. We’ve thoroughly enjoyed having it! I hope all is well with you, and I would be delighted if our paths crossed again somewhere, sometime! Kind regards, Martin
Ha - I guess my callsign N70TB is pretty well known. I think this controller also happened to be a pilot (since he said he liked the multi engine videos), which helped. - Martin
Awesome! It DOES work like a home AC, which runs with electricity. But cars power the compressor with a belt, using engine power. Maybe some of the newer ones are electric, but with so much electrical demand inside the car with entertainment systems, automatic open/close on some of the doors, charging devices.... really puts a strain on the battery.
Every one of your video productions is educational and this one was particularly interesting and fun to watch. Nobody does it better Martin! Your audio/video work is way above the norm. Well thought out and well presented!
So cool ( no pun intended ) to see this video as a 1st time viewer of this channel. I stay 5 minutes from this airport and recently did a discovery flight (Birthday gift )at Box Aviation. Now I'm hooked and wanting my PPL
Thanks, Niko - it's a game changer, but I'm sure you know that - and I wouldn't want to live in Florida without AC. Hope to see you soon somewhere, missed you in Oshkosh this year. - Martin
That is an excellent upgrade, Martin, especially here in Arizona. Your Bonanza is such a great plane and your choice of systems is second to none. Well done.....
Great video! This is a problem set I've been wanting to work on myself for a while, I've gone through several types of designs trying to figure out what I want to put in my experimental aircraft for air conditioning, so this was a super fun video for me!
That was a great video. And I'm sure a very welcome relief to those hot nasty days. We get some pretty brutal hot days out here in Los Angeles so I can appreciate where you're at. Good job.
Martin, one side benefit of moving the CG aft is (very slightly) higher speed 🙂 Another fine video, showing all aspects of the system and install. And the part explaining explaining snips vs "wiz wheel" was gold.
those power cart looks just like a custom job done on a milwalkie packout box! pretty cool! i dont have an aircraft but almost want one for the powersupply and packout stack compatibility!
Hi Martin - I have the Kelly Aero a/c system. When using it in the ground be very careful of how hot the voltage regulator gets. Stick your hand up behind the co-pilot side under the cowl while it’s drawing power to feel what I mean. I don’t use mine on the ground anymore for this reason. When operating off the alternator it is less of a problem. I also have an issue where the compressor affects my magnetometer but that can be managed.
Thanks for pointing that out, Andrew - I'll look for that next time I run it on the ground. I did notice the heading indication in my Aspen moves by a degree or two when I turn the AC on, but it's not enough of a change for me to worry about it. Regards, Martin
I just purchased my first aircraft to have air conditioning and it's great. I owned 4 before it without AC and always told myself I'm never going to need it. Kodiak 900 if anyone is wondering
A Kodiak - very nice! It's a rare mix of performance and utility - at a price, of course. Enjoy your flying adventures in this great airplane (and the AC, too)! - Martin
Great video Martin. I’m on BeechTalk as well, though more of someone that looks at the email digest topics and joins in occasionally rather than logging on daily. I’ve got an N35 and had A/C installed at the end of a complete aircraft restoration from 2004-2008. I got the Fire Truck Aviation system then (now A/C Systems, Inc.) then, and was their first V-tail installation. They used the V-tail’s pre-existing left side tail inspection for air intake, and it is probably too small on the v-tail. The A36’s is larger. Mine has an engine drive compressor and works fairly well, but does not cool the whole cabin down in flight like a car AC system due to all the outside air that leaks into the cabin. Long ago, I had a Biggs Aircraft do everything possible to minimize outside air getting into the cabin, but a lot of outside heat and humidity still gets in. It’s similar to driving a car with the AC on and a couple of windows partially open. I’ve gotten around the issue of not being able to cool the cabin without the engine running by using a large window AC unit and had an HVAC company custom make ductwork to pre-cool the cabin on the ground. JetShades added 4 years ago made just as much of a difference in cabin comfort as the AC by limiting infrared radiation into the cabin. Perhaps the best modification I’ve done on the aircraft, and certainly the best bang for the buck. Plus, I no longer have to wear sunscreen and that makes me feel cooler, too. Our airplanes were not designed to be air tight. A 3 inch rearward movement of the CG aftward in my V-tail would make my aircraft virtually unusable except for full fuel and two people in the front seats. My CG moved about 1 inch rearward with the Fire Truck Aviation kit. I did not need a higher output alternator, but started out with 70 amp unit on my iO-550. Changing over to an HID landing light, and later LED taxi, nav, and strobe lights really helped, though, as I could not have all the lights and AC on during night time taxi, but can now without any issues even at 1000 RPM. Although I now live in Tupelo, MS, I grew up in Des Moines and went to college, medical school, and trained in Iowa CIty for 12 years. I am back to visit friends on faculty at UIHC every 3-6 months, and will get in touch on BeechTalk sometime to meet up.
Thanks for the detailed feedback! I can absolutely see some jet shares in my future, as they would allow the AC to cool the cabin much more than it already does. Regards, Martin
I put it in my Cirrus SR22-G2 immediately after I bought it. I live in North Carolina and it was not optional. I had it done in Ohio. It took two weeks. Had an initial issue with it popping the breaker. They had gone to a more powerful condenser and it was drawing more current than they anticipated. I flew up there and they fixed it while I waited. They paid for my gas. Recently went up for their redesigned plenum and relocate the controller. Did it in a few hours with minimal charge. Customer service has been outstanding. Is it as cold as an engine driven compressor system, no it is not. Having lived with a Malibu with an engine driven compressor and its constant leaks and compressor failures I'll accept a few degrees warmer for the reliability. Cirrus does not allow for the piezoelectric switch due to the MCU system but I keep it in a hangar so I am rarely heat soaked. I highly recommend the system and the company as a whole.
Thank you for the detailed report, and I am glad to hear they took good care of the technical issue from your install. Yes, I heard about the Cirrus version not having the piezo switch... I guess their electrical system is more complicated than most traditional piston aircraft. Regards, Martin
Great bunch of guys. They look very knowledgeable but Michael looks nervous in the service 😂 not everyone is use to a camera in their face hahaha. Man, air conditioning is a must for any vehicle. Great add on
Sehr interessanter Beitrag Martin, vielen Dank! 👍Die Bohraufnahmen taten beim zuschauen schon ein bisschen weh, aber es war für ein guten Zweck. 😎 Um ehrlich zu sein hab ich bis dato weder ein SEP mit Klimaanlage gesehen noch erlebt. Wäre aber für Südeuropa sicher keine schlechte Option.
Ja, das war für mich auch etwas schwierig zuzuschauen, als der Mechaniker in den Rumpf gebohrt und geschnitten hat. Vielleicht so, als würde man seinem Kind bei einer Operation zusehen. Aber am Ende war natürlich alles gut, und die Kühlung macht das Fliegen im Sommer wesentlich angenehmer. Liebe Grüsse, Martin
I love this video, because it really showed all the specifics in terms of installation. I applaud the company for giving you such great access on both the installation side, and the fabrication side is wet. This is probably the best product video I have seen on UA-cam to date. Thank you so much for sharing. I will say, my heart did skip a beat when they started drilling holes into your beautiful Airplane!
Thank you for the kind words! And believe me, my heart skipped a beat (or two) when I saw them cut into the fuselage of my beloved airplane. Probably a bit like watching surgery done on your kid! 🤣 All kidding aside, yes, it was great that I was allowed to see and document the whole process from start to finish. - Martin
6:13 that big hose on the outside is going to cause a lot of drag? Ha ha. 16:35 Walter Dodge.... I love the ponytail. *** *** Yes 95 low humidity is better, but window sun shades or hanger shade would be a realistic, what temp did it produce? 50 AMPS? What does that do to alternator? That is power hungry.
HI Cristopher Ottawa Canada you sure have a great channel. , love your new panel looks like, enothi get but the best, have followed you channel for some time now retired from flying now cost me a lot less just to watch you in IFR trips, multi engine owned many twins last one 601 P aerostar. That AC system loo,'s great and the way to go
23:04 Somebody on the ramp might panic and assume the dripping condensate is fuel, then call for a fire truck to foam up your airplane! Might be worthwhile to install placards on each side of the fuselage by the drain, with laser-engraved text: "dripping fluid is plain water from an air conditioning system, not oil or fuel"
@@JustSayN2O I've worked in maintenance for 32+ yrs and I've never personally seen anyone call fire rescue for anything dripping from and airplane they have asked us about it though.
Does the compressor kick off during full power application? On the automotive side the compressor disengages during WOT. I would think this would be important in an aircraft to shed engine/alternator load during takeoff etc.
Good question - that's more important when the compressor is directly and mechanically engine-driven. With the electric AC in my plane, the performance impact is so minimal that there is no limitation for using the AC during any phase of flight, including take-off or landing. And if there ever was a situation where for any reason I would want to get every last bit of performance for a take-off, I can turn the AC off manually for that time, of course. - Martin
Great video Martin. Thank you for sharing. I have a small REQUEST. Would you do a video on your content creation techniques? I know you have an old video from a seminar you did but wondering if you could do an update. In particular…while I know how to capture the audio for intercom using an adapter for the headset socket, I would love to learn more about how you are capturing cabin sounds, engine, etc and incorporating into such a great final mix along with your narration. Also, are you using Davinci? Final Cut, Premier? Your videos are so great and well put together I would love for you to give an update on your current process. Also some do’s and don’ts. I really appreciate the work you put into these. Thank you! Also would love to meet you if ever in KARR.
That would take some work... But I can answer your one specific question: I use the audio track from one of the GoPros for ambient sound (engine noise, etc.). It's just noise, so you really don't need any fancy audio gear to record it. Then in FCP I have two separate audio tracks for intercom/radio and ambient noise, and I can control the relative volume of those tracks. Regards, Martin
@@martinpauly Watching the AC installation reminded me of working on the Citation line at Cessna in Wichita. I had to cut a hole in the tailcone and fit a fiberglass drain in the hole.
Cool video production Martin. Looks like a great A/C system DC electric, short distance refrigerant gas cycle. I like the buck riveted reinforced plate in the fuselage air intake vent. Just have to monitor the sound and vibration of the purple compressor (similar to the one in the back of the fridge or wall A/C. Did you have to change the plane's battery (deep cycle) or only use the GPU on the ground? * Did the refrigerant lines get insulated? Lastly, any pop out circuit breaker for the DC A/C? Moving the CG 3" 1/2 is for another envelope sir💫🏗️
John, I don't have all the answers to your questions, but: No battery change was necessary as this AC doesn't run on ship battery, only external ground power. Any regular aircraft battery would be depleted in no time. There is a circuit breaker in the cockpit for the electronics components of the AC, and a fuse for the high-AMP components. Regards, Martin
So do you supply updates weights & balance info for each aircraft type you install? How about aircraft performance specs when a/c is in operation? I'm not a pilot, just wondering.
Yes, each individual aircraft gets a W&B update during the install. Other than a little extra weight (60lbs, think 10 extra gallons of fuel), I have not noticed a performance change. I believe the aft movement of CG in my A36 actually helps with performance, so it may cancel out the penalty for the extra weight if we are flying with people just in the front seats. - Martin
Now I really have airplane envy!! I could really use air conditioning here in Tucson... Is this the same Kelly Aero that does magnetos? If so, they are a very good company. Rick in Tucson
The more work you do on 70TB the more I come to love and appreciate what a fantastic aircraft you have. Do you have any further long-term plans for upgrade?
Thanks - I think N70TB will be my “forever plane”. I think the interior will be our next big project. With the engine, the panel and other upgrades behind us, that’s really the thing we need to address now. - Martin
Thanks for sharing. Living in Texas and not being a spring chicken myself, I definitely have considered AC. My Comanche is currently a 12 V system. Would I need to upgrade to a 24?
THIS system only works on the higher voltage, at least presently. Not sure if upgrading your electrical system to 28V is a feasible option - you may want to look for an engine-driven compressor instead. - Martin
Yes - Beckey and I visited Hot Springs for the first time, just before dropping off the Bonanza at Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems in Montgomery. - Martin
Congrats on the airconditioner. I was wondering, if they used heat pump technology they could also use it to heat the cabin in the winter. I don't know what that would entail or how much more expensive that would be for them to develop that system. In the winter you could plug in your GPU and have the cabin nice and toasty before getting in.
Makes me wonder how often you will get people notifying you about a "fuel leak" from your plane because people wont be familiar with air con being installed on smaller aircraft.
Congrats on the fantastic upgrade, Martin! I’m jealous!! Are you using a Garmin GDL52? I see you have it positioned in front of the compass. Does that create any interference or errors? -Lee
Thanks, Lee. Yes, that is a Garmin GDL52. I use it for music and Sirius XM weather. I figure if I ever lose so much of my avionics that I actually rely on my compass, I can simply move the GDL52 out of the way - though I have not noticed any interference so far. - Martin
Martin, I have a GDL52 as well but only for SXM WX - for now. Good to know you haven’t noticed any interference. I may look at moving mine closer to me on the glare shield. Thank you for the feedback. -Lee
I'm writing on this channel, but I originally reached out to you on another video. You sent me a link to checklist. I have same plane as you, so I modified it some and put it in indesign, a graphics package, for easy updates. I'd like to send it to you but have no way to contact you. BTW, I used to go up to Ceder Rapids from Rockwell way back when. Take the King Air if I recall from Dallas to Ceder Rapids for business meetings. Used to sneak out of the meeting go down the hall and fly what I thought was called the starship. I don't think it ever got out of development. There were a couple of commanders around me in the 90's. Once was a German Guy who flew it to Europe.
24:05 Too bad the two new openings could not have been cut at (or closer to) the bottom of the fuselage for aesthetic reasons. Well, if that risks engine exhaust aspiration into the new system, then even cutting holes into the top of the fuselage might be preferable, at least to me. Sorry to be a nitpicker.
An A&P sign-off is required, but not an IA (that would be for an annual inspection). And yes, the CG changed. And the video discusses the weight and balance impact in detail, towards the end. - Martin
Thanks for sharing .. Question how does this add to the Weight and Balance of the aircraft .. also how does it impact the performance of the aircraft - eg different airspeeds ..
The weight-and-balance impact is shown in detail at the end of the video. I have not noticed a performance degradation in flight; the slight penalty of the additional weight seems to be offset by the farther-aft CG. The far-forward CG I used to have in the A36 had its own performance penalty... Regards, Martin
$33.5K is the 2024 price for an A36 Bonanza, all-in. It varies a bit by aircraft type, so please get a quote from Kelly Aerospace for an exact figure. - Martin
Good observation. The previous owners of my Bonanza took it out, because it kept needing repair and they would rather have more useful load. And they were in Houston, TX!!!
Did Kelly perform any extra work to ensure the control cables were not affected by the work in the tail? (Note, I'm just curious here) Did Kelly perform a control system/cable check before putting the interior panels back? Do you ever do a control system check before engine start/headset so it is easier to hear any control system "noises" (scraping/rubbing/binding)?
I check the controls (movement) during my preflight. While the Kelly AC components sit in close proximity to flight control cables, from what I have seen I don't see any source of interference there. As to how exactly they test this, that is probably dependent on the aircraft type. - Martin
Congrats Martin does the system come with one of those “ Spoiled, Blessed, and appreciative” stickers you see on people’s cool toys, but seriously a couple questions does your system use 100% outside air does it recirculate the cabin air. If you want to check the efficiency simply check the Delta T and if it’s near 20 degrees system is working efficiently very cool though ( no pun intended )
This electric system from Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems does not have a limitation for take-off. You can run it anytime during the flight or on the ground. It's a big advantage over the Beech factory air conditioning. - Martin
Weight and balance is described in a lot of detail towards the end of the video, so I'll refer you back there. Kelly's 2024 price for an A36 Bonanza is $33.5K, but please check with them for an accurate quote for your aircraft make and model. - Martin
95 under the heat load is not really that good. Needs more BTU capacity to pull it down into the mid 80's in that situation so when you get into the air it can pull it down into the 70's with the air flow over the cabin and condenser. Maybe with good insulation it would help, the white paint certainly does.
2024 pricing for the A36 Bonanza was $33.5K. Prices vary depending on aircraft model, so be sure to get a quote from Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems. - Martin
For the Bonanza, at the time of install, the price was $33.5K, all in with installation. But it depends on the aircraft type, so please check with Kelly Aerospace for an accurate quote. - Martin
Sure. AC needs lots of power - no way around it. At least with the Power Cart from Best Tugs, you can run this system with a normal wall outlet. - Martin
Am I missing something? Avoiding oppressive heat is just like dealing with any other weather condition: you plan ahead. In this case, early morning ops usually works out for even the hottest areas of the country. With runup, taxi and climb to above 5,000 feet usually occurring in less than 30 minutes, I’m left quizzically asking “is this worth the price?” And I’m willing to bet most people don’t have A/C on their pleasure yacht … 🙄 … let the hate mail begin.
It’s a valid thought - if you can reasonably limit your flying to early morning hours, then AC is a lot less important. For those of us using the airplane as a travel tool, that would be too restrictive, though. So either we accept the discomfort (another valid option) or we get AC. - Martin
The cost is no secret - Kelly has a price list. The 2024 pricing for an A36 Bonanza is $33.5K including installation at one of their facilities. That's a lot of money, but you quickly forget that once that cool air starts flowing on a hot day. - Martin
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Congratulations Martin!!! Now my wife will see this video and we will have to get an AC in our Bonanza.
Yes, that may happen... If it leads to more trips in the airplane with your wife, hopefully that will be a good thing. 👍
- Martin
go get it, this organization is top-notch
Got it. Total weight for the electrical version is not as bad as the factory air conditioning that I have in mine. The combination of the factory air-conditioning, glass panel avionics and the STC 550 R engine put my useful load at only 571 pounds with full fuel.
@@Bigpeat190 that's not bad, just watch your density altitude and adjust accordingly. That'll get you if anything will.
Martin
Just came across this video, and well remember when I helped you with purchasing the plane. As I remember, it had been air conditioned once, but you got those parts that had been removed in a box! I am sure you and your wife will really enjoy the added comfort this addition provides.
It’s great to hear from you, Don! I remember coming to Houston for the pre-buy inspection, and I am grateful for all the help you provided with that and the buying process. N70TB has been a great airplane for us, and we’ve made it better in many ways than it was when I purchased it: avionics (in multiple steps), IO-550B, and now air conditioning.
You are correct, the plane originally had factory AC, but the previous owners had removed that due to repeated maintenance issues with the system and also to improve the useful load. Now that our kids are grown, most of the time it’s just Beckey and me (or even just me) in the plane, so useful load isn’t as important as comfort. I remember how you described the value of AC when we met in Houston; your words were something like “…there’s just something about a woman when she realizes her make-up is running down her face…”. Of course, I enjoy it, too, and the Kelly Aerospace AC has less weight and performance penalties than the original Beech AC, and no limitations for phase of flight. We’ve thoroughly enjoyed having it!
I hope all is well with you, and I would be delighted if our paths crossed again somewhere, sometime!
Kind regards,
Martin
that is when you know you are big,...ATC just acknowledged that 😃
Ha - I guess my callsign N70TB is pretty well known. I think this controller also happened to be a pilot (since he said he liked the multi engine videos), which helped.
- Martin
Awesome! It DOES work like a home AC, which runs with electricity. But cars power the compressor with a belt, using engine power. Maybe some of the newer ones are electric, but with so much electrical demand inside the car with entertainment systems, automatic open/close on some of the doors, charging devices.... really puts a strain on the battery.
Every one of your video productions is educational and this one was particularly interesting and fun to watch. Nobody does it better Martin! Your audio/video work is way above the norm. Well thought out and well presented!
Thank you so much for the kind feedback!
- Martin
So cool ( no pun intended ) to see this video as a 1st time viewer of this channel. I stay 5 minutes from this airport and recently did a discovery flight (Birthday gift )at Box Aviation. Now I'm hooked and wanting my PPL
I remember seeing Box aviation across the ramp from Kelly.
By all means, go for the PPL! You'll never look back!
- Martin
Congrats on the a/c my friend. Thanks for a great video, I learned a lot.
Thanks, Niko - it's a game changer, but I'm sure you know that - and I wouldn't want to live in Florida without AC.
Hope to see you soon somewhere, missed you in Oshkosh this year.
- Martin
I had no idea they had an electric ac system, that’s cool, literally! Precooling is a game changer!
Yes, it is cool - works on the ground, and no limitations for using it during take-off and landing, either!
- Martin
That is an excellent upgrade, Martin, especially here in Arizona. Your Bonanza is such a great plane and your choice of systems is second to none. Well done.....
Thanks, Steve. Yes, now I can see myself fly to places like Arizona, and not make it painful.
- Martin
It's great to see engineering at work and people/companies that still look out for quality, specially in the aero industry, thanks for sharing.
My please - glad you enjoyed the video!
- Martin
Love your videos. Thorough, realistic and interesting.
Great video! This is a problem set I've been wanting to work on myself for a while, I've gone through several types of designs trying to figure out what I want to put in my experimental aircraft for air conditioning, so this was a super fun video for me!
Glad to hear this was useful, and good luck for getting your experimental cooled down!
- Martin
A very well structured and edited video. We'll done!
Thank you, Fred!
- Martin
What a great system. Best of luck with it, and thanks for the video. I’ll be calling Kelly for a quote for my Saratoga. Blue skies, Cary
Thanks for the kind words, and I hope the folks at Kelly can help you out for your Saratoga.
- Martin
Great documentary Martin. A wise decision and this firm has a great product. Thx for sharing.
Thank you, Ken!
- Martin
That was a great video. And I'm sure a very welcome relief to those hot nasty days. We get some pretty brutal hot days out here in Los Angeles so I can appreciate where you're at. Good job.
Thanks! Yes, this will make flying and traveling in the airplane a lot more fund!
- Martin
This was one of the best videos of AC install I have seen GREAT JOB!
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it!
- Martin
We've had 115 degrees here, I'm so jealous, that looks amazing, thanks for the breakdown Martin!
My pleasure! And at 115 degrees, this is almost a must-have, right?
- Martin
AirTractor has been using this type system for years! They work great!
Yes, Kelly Aerospace had variants of this AC system for many different makes and models.
- Martin
Martin, one side benefit of moving the CG aft is (very slightly) higher speed 🙂 Another fine video, showing all aspects of the system and install. And the part explaining explaining snips vs "wiz wheel" was gold.
Yes, that is true!
- Martin
That’s interesting, you think average cruise speed will be a knot or so faster?
It increasing little more elev authority and sensitivity too👍
It increasing little more elev authority and sensitivity too👍
those power cart looks just like a custom job done on a milwalkie packout box! pretty cool! i dont have an aircraft but almost want one for the powersupply and packout stack compatibility!
Go for it! 🤣
- Martin
Wow - you need to be on the marketing team Martin! Very well done…
Thank you - I’m glad you enjoyed how this one turned out.
- Martin
Hi Martin - I have the Kelly Aero a/c system. When using it in the ground be very careful of how hot the voltage regulator gets. Stick your hand up behind the co-pilot side under the cowl while it’s drawing power to feel what I mean.
I don’t use mine on the ground anymore for this reason. When operating off the alternator it is less of a problem.
I also have an issue where the compressor affects my magnetometer but that can be managed.
Thanks for pointing that out, Andrew - I'll look for that next time I run it on the ground.
I did notice the heading indication in my Aspen moves by a degree or two when I turn the AC on, but it's not enough of a change for me to worry about it.
Regards,
Martin
Really interesting! Your panel looks amazing too. Congratulations
Thank you very much!
- Martin
Thankfully my factory air is still working well. Getting A/C is going to be a great upgrade for N70TB
Good for you - those factory air conditioning systems are great when they work.
- Martin
Congratulations. Opens up the world
It sure makes things more comfortable!
- Martin
Wow what a nice upgrade!
It really is!
- Martin
Factory air 78 V35B here. Nice system once sorted.
Beechcraft factory air is nice when it works, but it's amazing how many are not working properly.
- Martin
@@martinpaulyI kept the condenser and evaporator unit/fan. All the rest I replaced with modern 134a components.
I just purchased my first aircraft to have air conditioning and it's great. I owned 4 before it without AC and always told myself I'm never going to need it.
Kodiak 900 if anyone is wondering
First turbine? That's a proper aircraft!
A Kodiak - very nice! It's a rare mix of performance and utility - at a price, of course.
Enjoy your flying adventures in this great airplane (and the AC, too)!
- Martin
Great video Martin. I’m on BeechTalk as well, though more of someone that looks at the email digest topics and joins in occasionally rather than logging on daily. I’ve got an N35 and had A/C installed at the end of a complete aircraft restoration from 2004-2008. I got the Fire Truck Aviation system then (now A/C Systems, Inc.) then, and was their first V-tail installation. They used the V-tail’s pre-existing left side tail inspection for air intake, and it is probably too small on the v-tail. The A36’s is larger. Mine has an engine drive compressor and works fairly well, but does not cool the whole cabin down in flight like a car AC system due to all the outside air that leaks into the cabin. Long ago, I had a Biggs Aircraft do everything possible to minimize outside air getting into the cabin, but a lot of outside heat and humidity still gets in. It’s similar to driving a car with the AC on and a couple of windows partially open. I’ve gotten around the issue of not being able to cool the cabin without the engine running by using a large window AC unit and had an HVAC company custom make ductwork to pre-cool the cabin on the ground. JetShades added 4 years ago made just as much of a difference in cabin comfort as the AC by limiting infrared radiation into the cabin. Perhaps the best modification I’ve done on the aircraft, and certainly the best bang for the buck. Plus, I no longer have to wear sunscreen and that makes me feel cooler, too. Our airplanes were not designed to be air tight. A 3 inch rearward movement of the CG aftward in my V-tail would make my aircraft virtually unusable except for full fuel and two people in the front seats. My CG moved about 1 inch rearward with the Fire Truck Aviation kit. I did not need a higher output alternator, but started out with 70 amp unit on my iO-550. Changing over to an HID landing light, and later LED taxi, nav, and strobe lights really helped, though, as I could not have all the lights and AC on during night time taxi, but can now without any issues even at 1000 RPM. Although I now live in Tupelo, MS, I grew up in Des Moines and went to college, medical school, and trained in Iowa CIty for 12 years. I am back to visit friends on faculty at UIHC every 3-6 months, and will get in touch on BeechTalk sometime to meet up.
Thanks for the detailed feedback! I can absolutely see some jet shares in my future, as they would allow the AC to cool the cabin much more than it already does.
Regards,
Martin
I put it in my Cirrus SR22-G2 immediately after I bought it. I live in North Carolina and it was not optional. I had it done in Ohio. It took two weeks. Had an initial issue with it popping the breaker. They had gone to a more powerful condenser and it was drawing more current than they anticipated. I flew up there and they fixed it while I waited. They paid for my gas. Recently went up for their redesigned plenum and relocate the controller. Did it in a few hours with minimal charge. Customer service has been outstanding. Is it as cold as an engine driven compressor system, no it is not. Having lived with a Malibu with an engine driven compressor and its constant leaks and compressor failures I'll accept a few degrees warmer for the reliability. Cirrus does not allow for the piezoelectric switch due to the MCU system but I keep it in a hangar so I am rarely heat soaked. I highly recommend the system and the company as a whole.
G,day from Sydney Australia.
What is the MCU system in your plane that will not allow a piezoelectric switch?
🌏🇦🇺
Kelly will not put the outside switch in Cirrus
@@EDD51459 A car key fob-style remote control might solve this limitation, at least for the airplane's owner.
Thank you for the detailed report, and I am glad to hear they took good care of the technical issue from your install. Yes, I heard about the Cirrus version not having the piezo switch... I guess their electrical system is more complicated than most traditional piston aircraft.
Regards,
Martin
Wish I had that problem to fix, great video content Martin.
Why - where are you located? Alaska?
Regards,
Martin
Great bunch of guys. They look very knowledgeable but Michael looks nervous in the service 😂 not everyone is use to a camera in their face hahaha. Man, air conditioning is a must for any vehicle. Great add on
Outstanding as always Martin! ❤ it!!
Thank you, Sir!
- Martin
@@martinpauly Always
Very cool (literally) video, thanks for your efforts!
My pleasure! 😎
- Martin
What a great video - thank you for letting us live vicariously. And just how absolutely perfect is it that you drive an Audi?
Yes, I like my A4 - and it has air conditioning, too! 😀
- Martin
Sehr interessanter Beitrag Martin, vielen Dank! 👍Die Bohraufnahmen taten beim zuschauen schon ein bisschen weh, aber es war für ein guten Zweck. 😎
Um ehrlich zu sein hab ich bis dato weder ein SEP mit Klimaanlage gesehen noch erlebt. Wäre aber für Südeuropa sicher keine schlechte Option.
Ja, das war für mich auch etwas schwierig zuzuschauen, als der Mechaniker in den Rumpf gebohrt und geschnitten hat. Vielleicht so, als würde man seinem Kind bei einer Operation zusehen. Aber am Ende war natürlich alles gut, und die Kühlung macht das Fliegen im Sommer wesentlich angenehmer.
Liebe Grüsse,
Martin
Welcome to my part of the country.
Thank you! 😊
- Martin
I love this video, because it really showed all the specifics in terms of installation. I applaud the company for giving you such great access on both the installation side, and the fabrication side is wet. This is probably the best product video I have seen on UA-cam to date. Thank you so much for sharing. I will say, my heart did skip a beat when they started drilling holes into your beautiful Airplane!
Thank you for the kind words! And believe me, my heart skipped a beat (or two) when I saw them cut into the fuselage of my beloved airplane. Probably a bit like watching surgery done on your kid! 🤣
All kidding aside, yes, it was great that I was allowed to see and document the whole process from start to finish.
- Martin
Cool Martin, real cool !
Thanks, Brian!
- Martin
Congratulations, have a cool flights.
Thanks, will do!
- Martin
6:13 that big hose on the outside is going to cause a lot of drag? Ha ha. 16:35 Walter Dodge.... I love the ponytail. *** *** Yes 95 low humidity is better, but window sun shades or hanger shade would be a realistic, what temp did it produce? 50 AMPS? What does that do to alternator? That is power hungry.
It's a 100 AMP alternator, so it's doing fine with the AC on.
Window shades would certainly help. We may get some of those in the future.
- Martin
Alright Martin!! Nicely done!!!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
- Martin
HI Cristopher Ottawa Canada you sure have a great channel. , love your new panel looks like, enothi get but the best, have followed you channel for some time now retired from flying now cost me a lot less just to watch you in IFR trips, multi engine owned many twins last one 601 P aerostar. That AC system loo,'s great and the way to go
Thank you, Christopher!
- Martin
Oooh. I'm moving to Florida next year sometime so gotta have AC for sure. Hope it works out for ya man!
I have flown in Florida a bunch... AC is almost a must-have there!
- Martin
23:04 Somebody on the ramp might panic and assume the dripping condensate is fuel, then call for a fire truck to foam up your airplane! Might be worthwhile to install placards on each side of the fuselage by the drain, with laser-engraved text: "dripping fluid is plain water from an air conditioning system, not oil or fuel"
Fuel in the tail of a Bonanza let's hope people in aviation is a little more knowledgeable than that!!
@@robertdmoore2592 Not everybody who walks around the ramp has aviation knowledge.
@@JustSayN2O I've worked in maintenance for 32+ yrs and I've never personally seen anyone call fire rescue for anything dripping from and airplane they have asked us about it though.
@@robertdmoore2592 Thank you, good to know.
Amazing video
Thank you, Allan.
- Martin
Does the compressor kick off during full power application?
On the automotive side the compressor disengages during WOT. I would think this would be important in an aircraft to shed engine/alternator load during takeoff etc.
Good question - that's more important when the compressor is directly and mechanically engine-driven. With the electric AC in my plane, the performance impact is so minimal that there is no limitation for using the AC during any phase of flight, including take-off or landing. And if there ever was a situation where for any reason I would want to get every last bit of performance for a take-off, I can turn the AC off manually for that time, of course.
- Martin
Great video Martin. Thank you for sharing. I have a small REQUEST. Would you do a video on your content creation techniques? I know you have an old video from a seminar you did but wondering if you could do an update. In particular…while I know how to capture the audio for intercom using an adapter for the headset socket, I would love to learn more about how you are capturing cabin sounds, engine, etc and incorporating into such a great final mix along with your narration. Also, are you using Davinci? Final Cut, Premier? Your videos are so great and well put together I would love for you to give an update on your current process. Also some do’s and don’ts. I really appreciate the work you put into these. Thank you! Also would love to meet you if ever in KARR.
That would take some work... But I can answer your one specific question: I use the audio track from one of the GoPros for ambient sound (engine noise, etc.). It's just noise, so you really don't need any fancy audio gear to record it. Then in FCP I have two separate audio tracks for intercom/radio and ambient noise, and I can control the relative volume of those tracks.
Regards,
Martin
@@martinpauly Thank you very much for the reply. That makes sense. Time for me to add another GoPro!
@@XOrionFE No matter how many cameras we have - we always need ONE MORE, right? 🤣
- Martin
Great video.
Thank you, James! 😊
- Martin
@@martinpauly Watching the AC installation reminded me of working on the Citation line at Cessna in Wichita. I had to cut a hole in the tailcone and fit a fiberglass drain in the hole.
Very cool, Martin! (Pun intended)
Cool - I get it! 👍🤣
- Martin
18:49 Taxi speed 21 knots. Yes! Just like SWA.
Cool video production Martin.
Looks like a great A/C system DC electric, short distance refrigerant gas cycle. I like the buck riveted reinforced plate in the fuselage air intake vent.
Just have to monitor the sound and vibration of the purple compressor (similar to the one in the back of the fridge or wall A/C.
Did you have to change the plane's battery (deep cycle) or only use the GPU on the ground?
* Did the refrigerant lines get insulated?
Lastly, any pop out circuit breaker for the DC A/C?
Moving the CG 3" 1/2 is for another envelope sir💫🏗️
John, I don't have all the answers to your questions, but: No battery change was necessary as this AC doesn't run on ship battery, only external ground power. Any regular aircraft battery would be depleted in no time.
There is a circuit breaker in the cockpit for the electronics components of the AC, and a fuse for the high-AMP components.
Regards,
Martin
So do you supply updates weights & balance info for each aircraft type you install? How about aircraft performance specs when a/c is in operation? I'm not a pilot, just wondering.
Yes, each individual aircraft gets a W&B update during the install.
Other than a little extra weight (60lbs, think 10 extra gallons of fuel), I have not noticed a performance change. I believe the aft movement of CG in my A36 actually helps with performance, so it may cancel out the penalty for the extra weight if we are flying with people just in the front seats.
- Martin
Now I really have airplane envy!! I could really use air conditioning here in Tucson... Is this the same Kelly Aero that does magnetos? If so, they are a very good company. Rick in Tucson
It's the same company, Rick, though they have sold the magneto business - I think to Hartzell (but don't quote me there).
Regards,
Martin
The more work you do on 70TB the more I come to love and appreciate what a fantastic aircraft you have. Do you have any further long-term plans for upgrade?
BAPS.
Just kidding !!
Thanks - I think N70TB will be my “forever plane”.
I think the interior will be our next big project. With the engine, the panel and other upgrades behind us, that’s really the thing we need to address now.
- Martin
Thanks for sharing. Living in Texas and not being a spring chicken myself, I definitely have considered AC. My Comanche is currently a 12 V system. Would I need to upgrade to a 24?
THIS system only works on the higher voltage, at least presently. Not sure if upgrading your electrical system to 28V is a feasible option - you may want to look for an engine-driven compressor instead.
- Martin
The Rusty Pilot is based in Hot Springs, AR. I was surprised to see my airport on the video. Would have loved to met you.
Yes - Beckey and I visited Hot Springs for the first time, just before dropping off the Bonanza at Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems in Montgomery.
- Martin
Congrats on the airconditioner. I was wondering, if they used heat pump technology they could also use it to heat the cabin in the winter. I don't know what that would entail or how much more expensive that would be for them to develop that system. In the winter you could plug in your GPU and have the cabin nice and toasty before getting in.
Good idea, but there are much more affordable and efficient ways to heat the cabin, both on the ground and while flying.
- Martin
Makes me wonder how often you will get people notifying you about a "fuel leak" from your plane because people wont be familiar with air con being installed on smaller aircraft.
We’ll see… so far nobody has said anything yet.
- Martin
Congrats on the fantastic upgrade, Martin! I’m jealous!!
Are you using a Garmin GDL52? I see you have it positioned in front of the compass. Does that create any interference or errors?
-Lee
Thanks, Lee.
Yes, that is a Garmin GDL52. I use it for music and Sirius XM weather. I figure if I ever lose so much of my avionics that I actually rely on my compass, I can simply move the GDL52 out of the way - though I have not noticed any interference so far.
- Martin
Martin, I have a GDL52 as well but only for SXM WX - for now. Good to know you haven’t noticed any interference. I may look at moving mine closer to me on the glare shield.
Thank you for the feedback.
-Lee
Very cool!
Thanks, Rick!
- Martin
Fascinating video, thanks! Can you still fit bikes in the back?
Hi Martin. Good video! How much did the new system cost? Thanks for what you do✈️❤️🇺🇸
Oh yes, the bikes still fit. The size of the cabin has not changed; everything was installed behind the aft cabin bulkhead.
- Martin
I'm writing on this channel, but I originally reached out to you on another video. You sent me a link to checklist. I have same plane as you, so I modified it some and put it in indesign, a graphics package, for easy updates. I'd like to send it to you but have no way to contact you. BTW, I used to go up to Ceder Rapids from Rockwell way back when. Take the King Air if I recall from Dallas to Ceder Rapids for business meetings. Used to sneak out of the meeting go down the hall and fly what I thought was called the starship. I don't think it ever got out of development. There were a couple of commanders around me in the 90's. Once was a German Guy who flew it to Europe.
Do they make a unit for the V35A ? Obviously, the CG needs to be considered. I wonder how far aft the CG would move. Great video.
I believe Kelly does not at this time - the CG shift would be too much of a problem for the short body Bonanzas.
Regards,
Martin
24:05 Too bad the two new openings could not have been cut at (or closer to) the bottom of the fuselage for aesthetic reasons. Well, if that risks engine exhaust aspiration into the new system, then even cutting holes into the top of the fuselage might be preferable, at least to me. Sorry to be a nitpicker.
I see your point; unfortunately down there is where the flight control cables are, so that probably wouldn't work.
- Martin
Does an IA have to sign off on these installations? Does the CG change?
An A&P sign-off is required, but not an IA (that would be for an annual inspection).
And yes, the CG changed. And the video discusses the weight and balance impact in detail, towards the end.
- Martin
Thanks for sharing .. Question how does this add to the Weight and Balance of the aircraft .. also how does it impact the performance of the aircraft - eg different airspeeds ..
The weight-and-balance impact is shown in detail at the end of the video.
I have not noticed a performance degradation in flight; the slight penalty of the additional weight seems to be offset by the farther-aft CG. The far-forward CG I used to have in the A36 had its own performance penalty...
Regards,
Martin
@@martinpauly Thanks You - I enjoy your videos - you are very meticulous, detail oriented and safety conscious on every flight! Happy Flying
Love the video! The big question us Aircraft owners have is - how much?
I'm guessing around 30k at least.
$33.5K is the 2024 price for an A36 Bonanza, all-in. It varies a bit by aircraft type, so please get a quote from Kelly Aerospace for an exact figure.
- Martin
@@martinpauly thank you Martin.
It appears your plane was a factory a/c plane. Was it too much to repair?
Good observation. The previous owners of my Bonanza took it out, because it kept needing repair and they would rather have more useful load. And they were in Houston, TX!!!
Did you consider replacing the alternator drive when swapping to the bigger alternator?
No. My engine is still relatively new (4 years).
Did you re do the W&B?
Yes, it was updated. And the video shows this in a lot of detail, towards the end.
- Martin
Didn’t get all the way to the end, my fault! Very cool install was great to see the process
Did Kelly perform any extra work to ensure the control cables were not affected by the work in the tail? (Note, I'm just curious here) Did Kelly perform a control system/cable check before putting the interior panels back? Do you ever do a control system check before engine start/headset so it is easier to hear any control system "noises" (scraping/rubbing/binding)?
I check the controls (movement) during my preflight. While the Kelly AC components sit in close proximity to flight control cables, from what I have seen I don't see any source of interference there. As to how exactly they test this, that is probably dependent on the aircraft type.
- Martin
Congrats Martin does the system come with one of those “ Spoiled, Blessed, and appreciative” stickers you see on people’s cool toys, but seriously a couple questions does your system use 100% outside air does it recirculate the cabin air. If you want to check the efficiency simply check the Delta T and if it’s near 20 degrees system is working efficiently very cool though ( no pun intended )
Thanks, Mike. The system has a valve to switch between 100% outside air and 100% recirculated air, and anywhere in between.
- Martin
KLNN home airport nice it's mentioned here lol.
Great video. Congratulations. How long did it take to install?
Thank you! 😊
It took 8 business days to install. They told me they typically quote two weeks to have a little bit of a buffer.
Regards,
Martin
Yaaaaay!!!
Nice AC!! What's the name of your Tug? It looks like what I need
It's an older tug called "Nose Dragger".
- Martin
Interesting looking set up. I do want to ask though do you still have to turn off the system on takeoff like you do an engine base AC system?
This electric system from Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems does not have a limitation for take-off. You can run it anytime during the flight or on the ground. It's a big advantage over the Beech factory air conditioning.
- Martin
Just came across your channel, love it.. Danish?
Close... but not quite. Keep guessing! 👍
- Martin
Hello I am wondering if this major modification requires a supplemental type certificate or other FAA document to be legal?
Of course it does. The STC is SA04342CH and it covers the A36 Bonanza and the 55 and 58 series Barons.
Yes, there is an STC, as @Stepclimb wrote.
- Martin
what does the AC system cost with power pack ?
What was the total weight added ? Total cost ?
Weight and balance is described in a lot of detail towards the end of the video, so I'll refer you back there.
Kelly's 2024 price for an A36 Bonanza is $33.5K, but please check with them for an accurate quote for your aircraft make and model.
- Martin
95 under the heat load is not really that good. Needs more BTU capacity to pull it down into the mid 80's in that situation so when you get into the air it can pull it down into the 70's with the air flow over the cabin and condenser. Maybe with good insulation it would help, the white paint certainly does.
Awesome
Why is the doubler on the outside???
Because the structure (stringers, wires, etc.) on the inside would interfere with it. Much easier to do on the outside.
- Martin
Good video! How much did the system cost installed by them?❤✈️🇺🇸
Somewhere around $34,000
let's get real the cost is absolutely ridiculous even if u can afford it
@@garyhines9517 The real cost is about $34000.
What is the cost, for something like this. ?
2024 pricing for the A36 Bonanza was $33.5K, all in (installed)
Make 4-8 airtags out of those bits of metal fuselage they cut away!!
Martin should auction off the metal cutoffs for charity.
@@JustSayN2O Yer as Air Tags people will buy them for a couple of $100
Great idea! 👍
Way to go Martin! Happy Wife, Happy Life!
Indeed, Preston! 👍
- Martin
Hey Martin, how does one say pressurized Barron in German? 😂
They don't call it a P-Baron over there?
How much did it cost
2024 pricing for the A36 Bonanza was $33.5K. Prices vary depending on aircraft model, so be sure to get a quote from Kelly Aerospace Thermal Systems.
- Martin
What was the cost?
2024 pricing for my A36 Bonanza was $33.5K. Prices vary by aircraft type, so be sure to check with Kelly for an accurate quote.
- Martin
What’s the cost of the system?
For the Bonanza, at the time of install, the price was $33.5K, all in with installation.
But it depends on the aircraft type, so please check with Kelly Aerospace for an accurate quote.
- Martin
Would be better if it could handle a normal wall outlet
Sure. AC needs lots of power - no way around it. At least with the Power Cart from Best Tugs, you can run this system with a normal wall outlet.
- Martin
Awesome ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks 🤗
- Martin
Sent them a request. Good marketing. Haha
Great - I hope they can help you!
- Martin
Am I missing something? Avoiding oppressive heat is just like dealing with any other weather condition: you plan ahead. In this case, early morning ops usually works out for even the hottest areas of the country. With runup, taxi and climb to above 5,000 feet usually occurring in less than 30 minutes, I’m left quizzically asking “is this worth the price?”
And I’m willing to bet most people don’t have A/C on their pleasure yacht … 🙄
… let the hate mail begin.
It’s a valid thought - if you can reasonably limit your flying to early morning hours, then AC is a lot less important. For those of us using the airplane as a travel tool, that would be too restrictive, though. So either we accept the discomfort (another valid option) or we get AC.
- Martin
Ok I am going to be that guy and ask….what’s the price to stay cool?😂
Martin never discloses the costs of his upgrades. We simply enjoy the videos.
The cost is no secret - Kelly has a price list. The 2024 pricing for an A36 Bonanza is $33.5K including installation at one of their facilities. That's a lot of money, but you quickly forget that once that cool air starts flowing on a hot day.
- Martin
95 degrees is still too hot. With all the money spent on the project it should be 75 degrees.