There's an Instrument Brightness dial overhead that you can use to turn off the green glowing instruments. It's the big dial next to all the power switches.
He already figured that, apparently. Also, it looks like the only useful setting there is '2' (and '0', of course). Nemeth Designs were always pretty sloppy - not sure how they landed this job.
For the people who have the instability issues like I had: In the main menu, options, change the flight model to Legacy. Load a chopper, fly it (more like crash it in 2 seconds). End the flight. Go back to main menu, options, change flight model to modern. Now it should work properly.
I also had to set the Legacy mode to Realistic. It was set to FSX, and that didn't fix the issue, but with realistic it did...and of course then back to Modern, just like you say in your post! 🙂
@@Marix498 Did you follow @Captain Pugwash FPV's instruktion exactly, and also what i did...changing the Legacy mode to something else than what is by default....for me it was set to FSX, then i changed it to Realistic, did a short flight, then back to the main menu, changed it back to Modern. For me it fixed the issue!
When I first took off, yeah, it was tricky, but I was able to fly the Bell for a short time, before it started going clockwise yaw for no reason. I couldn't make it stop doing that, and it eventually went inverted. It reminded me of the classic helicopter in older flight sims. Didn't get that issue with the other chopper. Odd. Will check the controls as you've outlined here. Thanks.
My experience with the 407 is the same out of control spin but, my reverse axis is NOT checked and this spin occurs after ive been in the air for several minutes. It lasts about 3-4 minutes and stabalizes only to do the same thing a few minutes later. The hi-contrast green can be turned down to be much easier on the eyes. I still have not fixed the 407 spin.
I didn’t have any issues flying it with assists off. It flew very similar to the DCS Huey requiring left pedal input as it should. If you have proper controls it flies as I would expect it to. There is a collective setting as well you didn’t set up. Very happy with the new helicopters as that’s what I predominantly like to fly.
You don't set the throttle for helicopters anymore. You need to leave the throttle and set you collective input to the new collective input mapping. Throttle is controlled by the governor of the helicopter. Also helicopters don't have trim settings like an airplane. Attitude is maintained by you holding the cyclic in position. Spring loaded flight sticks make this difficult because of the constant pressure it applys to you hand, making it difficult to maintain straight and level flight. You need helicopter controls for the full true experience (Ex helicopter pilot speaking from experience here)
Yep, this is I wanted to hear from a helo pilot. There are rotor trim settings among controls,but as I know (im not a heli pilot) there are no such controls in real?As I know there is a trim button that hold the cyclic position and keep the attitude. So in flight you set the desired angle, speed, and stabilize it by push the trim button. Btw I set all rotor trim buttons and trim helis like a plane during flight but i think this is not realistic, we need only a trim on /off button.What do you think?
@@airsheep I haven't flown the 407 in real life but from what I've read in real life there is a force trim system that helps hold the cyclic in position. Which can apparently be trimmed with the pot on the cyclic. Helicopters of this size have hydraulic cyclic controls so there is no feedback. I've flown the R44 a fair bit in real life and it's cyclic has zero feedback as it's hydraulic. The r22 has alot of feedback and to counter this they have a trim lever which is a couple of rubber bands that take pressure off the cyclic. So I'd say using trim in the bell 407 in the sim may replicate the force trim function in the real thing. But unless your joystick holds in the same relative position it's just going to spring back. The force trim system will hold the cyclic in the current position in real life and trim would move it slightly forward or backward. So no the trim won't be realistic at all.
@@airsheep if you're using a normal flight stick for helicopter controls in the Sim them removing the springs will make flying a helicopter 100 times better so it won't constantly want to return to centre. Also I trained on the very first Guimball Cabri G2 to arrive in Australia for about 10hrs and I can tell you that the way it flys is very realistic. Fly with proper helicopter controls and a VR headset and it's about as close as you're going to get to the real thing. I think it's amazing
@@SJM1678 Yep I fly in VR and I have a spring free joystick. Ideal would be a ffb joy with a trim button that holds the joy in the trimmed position (like a Logitech G940). Its a shame there are no such ffb product in the market.
Nice job, the only point I wanted to say is that in MSFS and DCS I have used my throttle like a collective for rotary wing and just learn to think differently when flying fixed wing vs rotary wing aircraft. I try to do the simulation as close to real life as I can make it. I also feel the 1900 hours (475 hours MSFS) in VR get me to really get the feel for flying rotary wing and I highly recommend moving to VR for a more immersive experience.
Great video and as always great content! As one of the people affected by the helicopter glitch, i can say that part of the problem is that no one is able to explain the real issue properly... what you showed us in the begining of the video is the standard behaviour for helicopters, you need anti torque input to keep it stable, but the actual bug that people are experiencing (me included) is that the helicopter not only spins regardless of rudder inputs, it also wobbles from side to side, even without any stick input from the player, i tried this hands off, with assists on and off, legacy and modern flight model, and is impossible to control and keep it stable, it feels like even the smallest stick and pedal inputs are amplified by 500%. I'm not new to helicopters as i have experience with helicopters in other sims like DCS for example (Huey and Apache) and in MSFS is impossible for me to fly them... which is kind of a bummer cause i was waiting for this patch mainly because of them...
Maybe you just need to create separate profiles for helicopters and map the helicopter controls there ONLY? At least that's what I did and I never run into that problem.
@@getsideways7257 yep i tried that but without any luck so far... when i get home from work i'll try that again with a new Hotas and see if that solves the problem.
In ANY flight sim while trying out a new aircraft ALWAYS make sure the virtual controls move in accordance with your controller inputs. If they move the opposite - reverse them. If you can't figure their positions, then just take note of how the aircraft itself reacts. The helicopters "jumping up" during starting for the very first time is a common situation in flight simulators. Also, the toe brakes being reversed is a pretty common problem - it's all because the controller/driver standards are pretty loose to begin with. Same thing with any other simulators, including car sims - there it's often needed to reverse the force feedback on the wheel, for example.
Instead of trimming the cyclic it's best to remove the springs from your joystick (makes sense to keep a separate stick just for this very purpose). You need to keep it straight before the flight somehow (a real cyclic has "friction" locks for that purpose), but once you have started taking off and are finally airborne - you'll thank yourself for this.
With the introduction to helicopters for new simmers. (Not the ones who have been siming multiple titles) we always find them back where we were when we started. Best rule of advice I can give. Test your controls before committing an engine start, or take off.
I flew this manually last evening, my second ever try and what i noticed is smth which in Warthunder has modeled as well. If you do full burn throttle is instable, stick to 60-70% throttle, i flew it for 30 min, had no issues at all. Assists off (except ATC AI communication), realistic mode, was ok in feeling and control
I thought it was just my helicopter skills that were lacking!! But this update has killed autopilot! The plane veers off course just when starting approach! Wow!
I have to say that, on selecting the Bell first time, I jumped in, started up, and although I didn't have the problem that you (Overkill) had, she certainly started yawing to the right as I increased the throttle and collective, but that was reasonably easy to stabilise. Of course, I'm using a very old, tired and somewhat sticky Saitek X52, and I made absolutely no changes to the profile or settings (I never set up profiles until I see what the initial installation produces). Forward flight was slow - I couldn't get it beyond 60 knots - and settind down was exactly as you said about the slow torque making things quite difficult. Now that I've had my first dealings, I'll set up a profile and make the initial corrections as needed. But I definitely didn't experience the "unflyable" situation mentioned. Having said that, I really must get a new replacement for the Saitek, At 76 years old, I may as well spend the money - my bills are paid and I have all the groceries I need - no problems!! The big question is, what should I buy? Virpil is much too much, so it will probably be Thrustmaster, unles someone can recommend a better one. Thanks for overview Overkill.
I've been messing around with Microsoft flight sim since the early days. No matter what version of sim you have. You will always half to tinker with the settings. Also if you have zero flight experience I would suggest watching a youtube video of the real aircraft cockpit start up and instruction videos. Will help you find your way around the cockpit. If your just goofing around though and don't want to do the research may want to just stick with the cessna 152. Lol lol
I've had the 407 just stop responding on the controls and just spin out of the sky 5 time now. also left pedal authority is very weak. It feels like i'm getting into VRS way too easily, she feels good and feels very wrong at the same time.
The sad thing for is, I love Bell Helicopters because it was the first thing I ever flew (the 206 I believe) when my grandpa first introduced me to the Flight Sim world with Flight Simulator '98.
Why is it sad, try reading some of these comments instead of the video. To be fair to Overkill he was just trying to go through what we had all done but the helicopter is fine if you know what's going on but it can take a little while if your settings are not setup correctly and that's so easy to do with all the various control systems out there.
My Lessons Learned with the 407: -Most of the comments I have seen from IRL helicopter pilots say the flight model is fine. Don't give up. -If you try to learn to fly the 407 and don't have helicopter experience (like me) don't bother. Start with the Cabri instead. -Spend several hours working on takeoffs, hover, landing, low taxi, pedal turns, square turns and quick stops in the Cabri and get good before transitioning to the 407. UA-cam for real life videos on these maneuvers, flight training, ground school, etc., and then go practice them. A lot. -I tried to fly the 407 a month ago and thought it was garbage. Now I have about 20 hours (at least half of that doing training maneuvers) in the Cabri and I think the 407 is a lot of fun. As soon as I had built up motor memory and got an intuitive sense on the Cabri, I came back to the 407 and immediately mastered it. I guess flying a helicopter is like learning to ride a bike. You have to break through to the point where you do it unconsciously. -Set all your joystick curves to full linear. -Loosen your throttle tension. -Loosen your joystick spring tension. I used long twisty-ties (found on bread bags or the wiring with new electronics). Slide them around 2-3 coils, move the stick to full-lock to compress the spring, and then twist down the tie. Experiment. By compressing part of the tension spring, you reduce its strength. -Pedals are a must. You need to make rapid adjustments with fine control and a controller or a yaw-twisting joystick robs you of the required travel and fine control. As a real life fixed wing pilot, I assure you pedals are not a gimmick, boondoggle or hornswaggle dreamed up by a sales department. In the sim helicopter, they are crucial. I hope that helps somebody. Good luck and enjoy!
Interesting that the auto startup doesn’t turn the attitude indicator on, whole flight had the gauge not working. It’s a switch in the ceiling cluster I actually just jumped in and it worked with my default profile (HOTAS) but I think after watching this I will create a specific profile for the Helo as I need to find a way to get trim on a button or two and relieve the forward stick pressure for the longer flights! 👍🏼
Just gone through and made a dedicated helicopter control configuration and I have to say the helicopter is much nicer using this profile rather than the normal one I have for planes. Thanks for the tip👍🏼
Same here, I started it up with the default checklist and it seems fine. The main issue is that it doesn't include the Pedal Stop, which you certainly want to have on. (In the real aircraft, at least, giving full left pedal without the Pedal Stop will parasitise too much power from the main rotor.)
@@Tobascodagama In reality, promptly giving it full left pedal while at speed could lead to the tail rotor hitting the tail boom. The pedal stop only kicks in at certain speeds. The modeling involved here definitely is not good enough for the pedal stop to be necessary.
I fixed my issue, same issue many here are fighting with. The out of control clockwise spinning of the Bell 407 and the Cabri G2. I can't say this will fix everyone's issue, but it's worth a try. First off, let me say this: I use the Steam version of MSFS 2020 and I use a stand alone 3rd party app called MSFS Addons Linker, so this made it a bit easier for me to go about fixing the issue. 1st: Disable all your addons - This is where Addons Linker made the job simple. 2nd: Uninstall MSFS 2020 completely. Either from Windows Control Panel / Add & Remove programs, or directly through your Steam Library. If you play it on Xbox, sorry can't help you there. 3rd: If you are a PC user, and you are familiar with using RegEdit safely, then delete all instances of Flight Simulator from the Windows Registry. 4th: Re-install MSFS2020 from the source you acquired it from (i.e. MS Store, Steam, etc..) Yes I know it's a long process, hopefully you have fast internet. 5th: Launch MSFS and immediately go into Options / Controllers and delete and custom controller presets you may have created. Reset all Sensitivities. You are basically putting MSFS back to it's "vanilla" state. 6th: Go into Options / Assistance and reset all back to default. 7th: While in the Assistance Options, Set PILOTING / Assisted Takeoff to OFF, Set Everything Else in PILOTING to ON. The AI Communication doesn't matter if it's on or off. 8th: Apply the changes and go test the Bell 407 and the Cabri G2. If the issue is resolved then add your add-ons back gradually and test often. This is to reassure an addon is not causing a conflict. My issue was not addon confliction related, but Sim corruption related. A full uninstall / re-install and reset of the options / settings was the only wat to fix it. Now I am pleased to say that the 40th Anniversary update is NOT complete garbage... now to figure out why inBuilds A310 will not switch from VOR to GPS and allow the AP to fly the designated FP route (magenta line).
If you want to fly helicopters more often, then invest in a collective. You have already some Virpil peripherals, so you know their quality, they also have an excellent collective. It takes only minutes to get used to lowering the collective to go down instead of pulling it. You have instant feedback on how it works so your brain learns quickly! And it add s to the immersion. I have the Virpil collective btw.
Pushed myself to migrate to the correct collective orientation for DCS a couple of years back, and it was a game-changer for me, so much more intuitive.
Nice video 👊👍 The only problem I've had is the startup isn't correct. Nor is the throttle behavior. And the rotor brake doesn't seem to function. But other than that. It seems okay. The sounds are really good. And it's nice to fly.
One of the issues with flying helicopters is only small imputes of the cyclic is required. Trying to do small movements with a short joystick is actually really hard to do. A long cyclic (joystick) is significantly easier and will resolve a lot of finer control issues. Extensions can be purchased for some joysticks and is well worth it.
You have to bind the four rotor trims (left/right and up/down) in addition to the collective. I like the tobii eye tracker myself since I don't have to wear anything.
Comment on Helicopter flight controls... in particular the Cyclic. For the most accurate and realistic experience obtain a joystick where you can remove the spring loading that wants to push the joystick back to center. Why? In a fixed wing aircraft, you follow the process of Power, Atitude & Trim. Set Power for the flight regime you want, set the attitude that you want and trim out the control forces and then fly about that trim setting. Helicopters generally do not fly this way. When flying a rotary wing aircraft the cyclic is generally moved to set the attitude desired and held there,; constant small adjustments are made throughout the flight. Doing this with a spring loaded joystick is going to get fatiguing and will make for not a very smooth flight. There are some pilots who will fly through the trim, but the majority of rotary wing aviators are "button smashers" meaning they are releasing the trim, repositioning the cyclic and then releasing the trim. (The force trim re-engages when the trim button is released). In most circumstances, a control input is put in and then half is taken back out almost immediately. Also, for me I typically had my forearm resting on my right leg, this creates a reference point about which I move my wrist to put in control input. In large part, I am flying with 2-3 fingers on the cyclic (joy stick). There are some pilots who will fly with a trim via the "coolie cap" (this moves the cyclic forward back, left and right) however; this is ineffective when trying to land or when doing maneuvers like hovering over a boat or elevated pad landings. I have found the helicopter in the Sim very good and remarkably accurate; I think it is the first time I have flown a sim where the flight modelng seems accurate. There are two setting under assistance for for Cyclic and pedals; because joy sticks are not exctly like a helicopter control, I would suggest having that engaged makes it more realistic then not having it. In a real helicopter there is some degree of inherent stability from gyroscopic precession and without that assistance fells like it make the helicopter more unstable when how it is in reality. I was a USCG MH-65 pilot, with about 1700 hours total time, not a lot but a enough experience that I feel confident in my assessment. I highly recommend flying with joystick where the spring loading is off, with a little pratice you will understand what I am talking about here. Cheers John
Yes. You have helped me a lot to set up helocopters. The big thing that I need is a flight stick. I have been flying with a yoke for a loooong time. Christmas is coming, however. Don't know if I can wait that long for a flight stick.
VPC Throttle should be set for pull back on throttle = up collective. push down throttle = down collective.....anything else is not following helo collective mechanics. You are making it complicated where it doesn't need to be (by using fixed-wing throttle directions). The obvious answer to all of this is to buy a collective but then why not do a cyclic too. But many of us don't want to have to switch out all of the equipment to fly helo. I made a custom FF cyclic from an old M$ FF but i always and I mean always have my throttle feedback mimic a helo not a fixed wing. Don't make it complicated by trying to make it simple. Love this channel.
@@OverkillSimulations ah, gotcha, no, i understand now. everyone has their way of doing it. also, I just like to think that if we do it right out of the gate, when he get a collective down the road, it won't require re-training. I get what you're saying!
Turned all the assist off and the trim still is un adjustable with an xbox controller. You have to manually go into the cockpit and tweak it with the controls in there... hopefully they get it fixed. Also doesn't make sense that the throttle constantly says 100% when we have to use it to guide us up and down... it should change from 0 to 100% as we take off and land. Frustrating but it's new so I guess it's expected.
Helis are touchy and hard to fly, only if you have assited ones like (in real life) fly-by-wire heavily computer supported like in the H145 and others like that. What I do not understand is that some users deactivate all “helpers”, prefer a simulator though have no helicopter equipment/joystick (incl. collector etc.) and create no new profile. All other input devices need configuration, I mean in DCS world we often change everything and tinker a bit here and there, sometimes from plane to plane. So I thank Overkill for his support, I hope many will see it -> overall it seems like a configuration problem of the Joystick/Hotas and unknown user input (I saw even a comparison to Arma III - wow, the helis there are not on a simulation level) as before there were no good helis - besides the H145 which was a little wonder - as the aerodynamics/physics were not implemented. A little configuration and trial this seems to work. Keep the blue side up, cheers, Pepe
The trouble is that by default MSFS helicopters use the default plane controls/axis, if you use the "dedicated" helicopter axis assignments in the same profile, they can conflict i.e. you might set the plane "throttle" to push for acceleration and the helicopter collective to "pull" but when in plane/helicopter neither controls in the cockpit will have the correct range/position and/or "jump/stick" to the mid point.
I found out why it was that unstable , anyways it is still unstable but flys better when u realize autoturning on the heli doesn't set fuel boost on and doesn't touch the throttle for some reason
If you have any hope of ever flying a real heli, I would strongly encourage you to configure the collective correctly. It's not a throttle as I'm sure you know. I used to fly both planes and helis IRL (learning in airplanes first), and I never had any issue with this at all. To me it's simple -- pull up or back to go up, push down or forward to go down. I used my TMW throttle as a collective for a long time (I now have a Virpil collective) and it just "felt right" to pull back to go up. At any rate, thanks for the video!
Love and appreciate all you do for the community, and happy for those this workaround helped but sadly it doesn't work for me. When I use either of the supplied helos as soon as I lift the collective, no matter how gently and with hands off cyclic, before it even gets into a ground effect hover it rolls and spins in ever increasingly violent circles. I've tried with "piloting" options set to hard/easy and multiple settings in between with the same results. I even tried the suggested switching "Flight Model" between Modern and Legacy, still no joy.
I was so happy they bring helicopters and it just spins around like hell why did the firs helicoptermod worknwithout problem and here we get a spinning one.
Great video. But from day one I found Bell is great. I have different joystick setting for helicopters and all my other aircraft, which helps. I only found the issues with the Bell and tork in between transition of flight to landing, especially if you want to perform a hover landing. She gets squirely, but just drop the collective and tork a bit and she recovers. But try to keep some forward momentum in thecBell, on landing, like with circling down right to land and perform a small heuy skid slide and you'll have no issues. She's great..... The Bell 407 is great for sight seeing and yiu should fly her over London, MSFS2020 is gorgeous. So, I have to take my hat off to Asobo and MSFS2020 and the recent 40th Anniversary, its a game changer...
ATTENTION: If you are like me, your heli nose dives or goes vertical & spins out of control shortly after takeoff, it's because your flight setting are not on hard. In easy mode the pilot assist wants to take over. I noticed in MSFS 2020 they really went overboard with the assist & I mean really overboard. Leave the aircraft setting on hard & you want have any problems with assist. Aircraft are slightly harder to fly but you'll get the hang of it naturally with time. You welcome!
A problem I had when flying is when I lower my collective below half way, my cyclic in game won't move forwards or backwards and the game just freezes it in place no matter how much I tug on my real life controller, I can only move it left or right which is so annoying. 90% of the time when I go to land, the game takes over and freezes my in-game cyclic in the forwards or backwards motion making the helicopter unable to be controlled when I reduce collective. FYI: I have assist off so the game isn't supposed to take over.
I had issues when mapping aircraft and helicopter axis assignments on the same profile (it's like both inputs are used and they can/do conflict). Once I cleared the helicopter assignment, the regular (default ?) stick assignment worked fine for the cyclic as well. Same is true for the collective when throttle and power cyclic axis are different i.e. one is reversed and the other not - axis movement is reduced and travel sticks/stops at the mid point.
@@Ramsay58 My mapping is all worked out, but every time I lower my collective or add more collective "too fast", the game panics and freezes my cyclic even though I'm moving my joystick/flight stick around. It works just fine when I'm cruising, but I know it isn't an issue with mapping since it only occurs when I do something with the collective to change the power of the heliopter. It hasn't done that in the Cabri either, only the Bell 407. Before the 40th anniversary update, something called the Kamov was released in the MSFS marketplace and it did it on that to, until the developers updated the aircraft. It's simply just a problem with the 407 I believe. Unrelated to the rest of my report, the rotor brakes on the Bell 407 don't even work either, the lever goes back to it's origin when you try to hold it down. It's relatively disappointing considering the amount of time they had to test everything. But, we all make mistakes and I believe MSFS is already working on repairing the braking issue. Not sure about the issue where my cyclic freezes though.
I have 2 joystick types and a honeycomb throttle plugged into a powered usb hub, do I need to unplug the unused joystick and honeycomb ? Will there be a conflict with the selected joystick with the helicopter profile shut up? Or can they all stay plugged in while using the control with the helicopter profile?
@@brian-ue3rh After flying both helicopters (and setting their controls), I had similar issues with the throttle in the C172 Classic (kept detecting a phantom input and jumping back to center unless I kept moving the throttle). Only after switching to the "Legacy" Flight Model, setting and applying "realistic settings", restarting the sim and going back to the "Modern" flight model setting did it's throttle work. So it looks like there might be a per aircraft joystick config that needs updated "realistic settings" even when using the "Modern" flight model but I don't understand the exact logic of what's going on. AFAIK the sim should ignore controls that aren't assigned in the active profile but I've left my unused xbox controller unplugged while fault finding.
I won a Tobii Eyetracker 5 in the Reno Air Race Series tournament by MSFS Official and I’ve found it’s more trouble than it’s worth most of the time. Great for startup but for actually flying it becomes real twitchy and a bit of a pain. Love the product, just find using the POV Hat easier than messing with Head/Eyetracking
@@ElementAVGM That’s what I use the Tobii 5 for. I turn off eye tracking and just use the head tracking. I’m usually doing many things at once when I fly and the tracker never re-centers properly and it’s just a waste of my time
Yah, my 407 certainly does not fly like that and I have the throttle set just like yours. I also do not have trim in helicopters, unless it's a different button.
what your showings not like my experience, the helicopter upon leaving the ground immediately starts pitching back and forth violently and rolling side to side, its COMPLETELY unflyable... not sure if my flight model is corrupted or if some thing is interfering with the flight model that is corrupt...
No problems at all with the helos on first attempt. Running true to life settings but had to clear flight contol mappings from the oculus controllers. DC-3 though yaws off the runway severely on takeoff and Jenny has a funky vr pilot position.
Same! The helicopters WERE an issue on release day Friday. Installed update, I restarted the whole program. Problems with heli's persisted. But oddly that night that was "fixed?" Seemed to work MUCH better. Still have issues with DC-3 (same veering off runway problems, also throttle goes down and I can't even take off) and on my end, the A310. The A310 problem is throttle is way up and I cannot decrease speed at all, also cockpit view is extremely glitchy.
@@topofthegreen yes you can , search for (rotor trim longitudinale) for nose up and down , (rotor trim lateral ) for left and righr trim , and set a reset binding ( rotor trim reset ) .
What's with the head position though? It's so high. Also I've noticed the ridder controls down on the bottom are busted, and when opening the co pilots vent, the sound changes but it doesn't open visually. There's also barely any changes in the rotor sounds during flight. Oh and the entire cyclic plate on both helis aren't animated at all. Very unimpressed with both
my problem so far is the lack of a bindable force trim button, which sets the current (virtual) joystick position to a new center position, so that i can release my real joystick. i also noticed that retreating blade stalls and VRS doesnt seem to be simulated. otherwise i really like it, fun to fly!
@@NWGJulian yep that's what I managed with the small one too. Other than that I have the feeling the inputs are somehow dampened on those choppers, but I was just hopping in and did not read about them. So I have no idea if they have some kind of SAS irl. Curves straight and no assists on.
I made a new profile for my stick and I also have the bravo and alpha is there a way to disable The other controls like the bravo and alpha or are they just always on ,when I select the profile for the stick that's labeled helicopter the bravo still works and the alpha for that regards?
The only thing wrong for me on Xbox with controller is the rotor brake doesn’t works apart from that everything work beautiful but it’s just annoying to shut it down you have to wait like 5 mins for the blades to chill out 😂
I actually think for now, every one who using Xbox Controller will have better "fun" with assists. Helicopters basically have "two" throttle's. Collective and Throttle, it's very difficult to pilot and enjoy it with controller. I think it's even not so idle with standard HOTAS. Have fun everyone.
I can call out a few parts for the issues/pros ➛ the cockpit seems bland and small, and the lights are heavily bright unlike the H145 where the view feels immersive ➛The aircraft does have detail, I cannot get tired of the sound ➛helicopter does lack customizations(configs) like cable cutters, searchlight, FLIR, Floats, Franham Dampe (rotor disc) like the XP11 Bell 407 and in FSX ➛On start, the helicopter sounds automatically rolls the flight idle instead of a low pitch idle sound, which the throttle does not tie with the engine nor the sound for it just the physics ➛On shutdown, the rotorbrake does not stop the rotors and it is in a similar system with the H125 where the rotors do not stop ➛ The physics does act funny, but there is a mod for PC, but this is unfortunate for Xbox Simmers Note: I do hope the helicopter gets fixed or people can mod to improve it, I seen Nemeths aircraft on FSX and then again this is fairly new so lets give it time!
I noticed that you now make use of the MSFS profiles again instead of using SpadNext. Which I believe you used quite a lot in the past. Is there a specific reason for that? Just wondering as it would prevent a LOT of the profile switching I think.
Coming from someone with experience in real helicopters, I think for the first time in msfs history, they did a pretty good job on the cabri g2, my main gripe with the helicopters, even with the realism turned all the way up, everything true to life, the controls still are not sensitive enough like in real life. (Maybe that can be adjusted in fs and I just haven’t looked enough). But that’s my main gripe, their is still a few small things that I think need to be addressed, for example their take on ETL needs a little work. Now as for the Bell 407, not trying to be rude to Nemeth designs, but I think they dropped the ball on the 407 project. Their is a ton of little things that should of been proper before release. A few aggravating pieces for me, the helicopter is way under powered, it struggles to maintain 100kts, on a good clear day it can easily maintain 120-130 and the vertical stabilizer has no effect on the aircraft in forward flight, requires a ton of left pedal to stay in trim. Again I’m not talking about in a hover, IN FORWARD FLIGHT. also the aircraft in real life has a little more tail rotor authority then what they give it in the sim. Theirs no sound dynamics in the rotor system, in the engine yes, but rotor system no. Also their seems to be absolutely no correlation between the engine and throttle, you roll the throttle to idle and we’re still running at 100%. Anyway it has plenty of quirks that need to be worked out. In my opinion, for those who say helicopters are too hard to fly on the sim, it’s a Simulator not a video game. So IF you have the realism turned up all the way on everything, they should be as real to life as absolute possible! But I will agree, for what the sim is going for, if someone just wants to play in helicopters, they should be able to adjust the settings low and they should be more flyable, but with that said, take the time and learn to fly the aircraft and turn crash off so when you go skid side up, you can just reset and keep going! You have to build that coordination. So for me, Microsoft and asobo, please keep the realism for the helicopters! ** also, I think for those who are complaining about helicopters being hard to fly and need the easy settings to be easier, I’m okay with that, I just hope for the community’s sake, asobo and ms doesn’t listen to the feedback from those who have absolutely no real experience in rotorcraft. Of course if someone has never been around for example the bell 407 in real life let alone fly it, and they use it on the sim, then say well other than it being hard to fly it’s fine. We’re just cutting the fun short for everybody! Again just talking in general! Not pointing fingers anywhere!
Well said, I noticed everything you mentioned during my first flight of the 407 in msfs. I went into to xplane11 and flew the 407 there, everything works as expected. Unfortunately there are some things need fixing in the msfs 407, the throttle thing is annoying and the way the vertical stabilizer doesn't do much when you are in forward flight... just look at the ball when you're flying, it's not centered unless you add a ton of left pedal. Also there are bindings for helicopters in the settings that seem to do nothing... it's very broken, hopefully more people point this out and they will fix it soon.
@@robertb.3651 try going in your settings and find the throttle axis, make sure it's not reversed to however you're trying to use it otherwise when the throttle sees a change it will jump to that spot on the axis
Well said. I’m a helicopter pilot and fly the 407 sometimes. They dropped the ball on alot very basic stuff that should have been in mind within the first few stages of development. Like you said no throttle correlation. Propulsion instrument ie: mgt torque ng do not correlate properly either. A lot of initial battery on faults like beeps and proper bit tests etc. probably the biggest notice as you noted the 407 is a hot rod,with full fuel and 80 percent torque it’s a 120-130 indicated machine and that’s not even setting max continuous torque. Hoping they make some improvements!
bro, I tested it today, it is mostly unflyable to me, it turns left and right, it is unstable and erratically changes direction at lower speeds, I dunno if it's cause I'm using the keyboard but it is really difficult to handle compared to the other helicopter
idk I mapped my joystick and I still have complete lack of control, it gyrates, veers off to the left or right and usually end upside down, note I have flown helicopters a lot in msfs, but using the older Airland fs method. But I don't understand why I have no Lateral control, even though I am mapped to it.
EXACTLY!!!! UNCONTROLLERABLE SPIN!!!! i dont have collective axis, im using a xbox one controller, Alt + F4 AGAIN! I QUIT SHIT UPDATE, id love a flight stick etc but too much money! controller should do it some what its not a problem in other games, i really hoped the Xbox console release would fix controller issues.
this is the only problem that I had was the camera view is located outside to the right and is this way with or without track it the other chopper and the 145 function, this one not functioning
This thing is so unstable. I told my wife if helicopters are this hard to fly....we should never fly in one LOL. I used to fly R/C helicopters with a mechanical gyro (25+ years ago). It was much easier the fly than this model.
un-flyable, so they got it right then. I don't know why the Cabri feels like it has heavy stability controls with everything set to hard, going to have to research the Cabri but I feel they didnt want that model to feel tough to fly. It seems way too easy for a helicopter that size, I have suspicions. Anyone know why I cant un-link the throttle from the collective in controls? whenever I set a throttle axis, I just get a second collective.
Trying the 407 first time tonight. Not happy. How do I fly it with a standard flghtstick? I like your videos and I am a subscriber. Please less superlatives and more step by step would be appreciated. Thanks.
There's an Instrument Brightness dial overhead that you can use to turn off the green glowing instruments. It's the big dial next to all the power switches.
He already figured that, apparently. Also, it looks like the only useful setting there is '2' (and '0', of course).
Nemeth Designs were always pretty sloppy - not sure how they landed this job.
For the people who have the instability issues like I had: In the main menu, options, change the flight model to Legacy. Load a chopper, fly it (more like crash it in 2 seconds). End the flight. Go back to main menu, options, change flight model to modern. Now it should work properly.
This works
I also had to set the Legacy mode to Realistic. It was set to FSX, and that didn't fix the issue, but with realistic it did...and of course then back to Modern, just like you say in your post! 🙂
Does it work on Xbox?
for me din't help:(
@@Marix498 Did you follow @Captain Pugwash FPV's instruktion exactly, and also what i did...changing the Legacy mode to something else than what is by default....for me it was set to FSX, then i changed it to Realistic, did a short flight, then back to the main menu, changed it back to Modern. For me it fixed the issue!
When I first took off, yeah, it was tricky, but I was able to fly the Bell for a short time, before it started going clockwise yaw for no reason. I couldn't make it stop doing that, and it eventually went inverted. It reminded me of the classic helicopter in older flight sims. Didn't get that issue with the other chopper. Odd. Will check the controls as you've outlined here. Thanks.
I’m still having that same issue where it goes into a completely uncontrollable spin.
My experience with the 407 is the same out of control spin but, my reverse axis is NOT checked and this spin occurs after ive been in the air for several minutes. It lasts about 3-4 minutes and stabalizes only to do the same thing a few minutes later. The hi-contrast green can be turned down to be much easier on the eyes. I still have not fixed the 407 spin.
I didn’t have any issues flying it with assists off. It flew very similar to the DCS Huey requiring left pedal input as it should. If you have proper controls it flies as I would expect it to. There is a collective setting as well you didn’t set up. Very happy with the new helicopters as that’s what I predominantly like to fly.
You don't set the throttle for helicopters anymore. You need to leave the throttle and set you collective input to the new collective input mapping. Throttle is controlled by the governor of the helicopter. Also helicopters don't have trim settings like an airplane. Attitude is maintained by you holding the cyclic in position. Spring loaded flight sticks make this difficult because of the constant pressure it applys to you hand, making it difficult to maintain straight and level flight. You need helicopter controls for the full true experience (Ex helicopter pilot speaking from experience here)
Yep, this is I wanted to hear from a helo pilot. There are rotor trim settings among controls,but as I know (im not a heli pilot) there are no such controls in real?As I know there is a trim button that hold the cyclic position and keep the attitude. So in flight you set the desired angle, speed, and stabilize it by push the trim button. Btw I set all rotor trim buttons and trim helis like a plane during flight but i think this is not realistic, we need only a trim on /off button.What do you think?
@@airsheep I haven't flown the 407 in real life but from what I've read in real life there is a force trim system that helps hold the cyclic in position. Which can apparently be trimmed with the pot on the cyclic. Helicopters of this size have hydraulic cyclic controls so there is no feedback. I've flown the R44 a fair bit in real life and it's cyclic has zero feedback as it's hydraulic. The r22 has alot of feedback and to counter this they have a trim lever which is a couple of rubber bands that take pressure off the cyclic. So I'd say using trim in the bell 407 in the sim may replicate the force trim function in the real thing. But unless your joystick holds in the same relative position it's just going to spring back. The force trim system will hold the cyclic in the current position in real life and trim would move it slightly forward or backward. So no the trim won't be realistic at all.
@@airsheep if you're using a normal flight stick for helicopter controls in the Sim them removing the springs will make flying a helicopter 100 times better so it won't constantly want to return to centre. Also I trained on the very first Guimball Cabri G2 to arrive in Australia for about 10hrs and I can tell you that the way it flys is very realistic. Fly with proper helicopter controls and a VR headset and it's about as close as you're going to get to the real thing. I think it's amazing
@@SJM1678 Yep I fly in VR and I have a spring free joystick. Ideal would be a ffb joy with a trim button that holds the joy in the trimmed position (like a Logitech G940). Its a shame there are no such ffb product in the market.
@@airsheep yeah that'd be sweet wouldn't it. Next project maybe haha
When you are flying with another chopper the blades on your friends chopper are not turning. Looks like they are just floating in the air. TEX383
Nice job, the only point I wanted to say is that in MSFS and DCS I have used my throttle like a collective for rotary wing and just learn to think differently when flying fixed wing vs rotary wing aircraft. I try to do the simulation as close to real life as I can make it. I also feel the 1900 hours (475 hours MSFS) in VR get me to really get the feel for flying rotary wing and I highly recommend moving to VR for a more immersive experience.
you didnt show how you fixed the dash light or how to set the trim
Great video and as always great content!
As one of the people affected by the helicopter glitch, i can say that part of the problem is that no one is able to explain the real issue properly... what you showed us in the begining of the video is the standard behaviour for helicopters, you need anti torque input to keep it stable, but the actual bug that people are experiencing (me included) is that the helicopter not only spins regardless of rudder inputs, it also wobbles from side to side, even without any stick input from the player, i tried this hands off, with assists on and off, legacy and modern flight model, and is impossible to control and keep it stable, it feels like even the smallest stick and pedal inputs are amplified by 500%. I'm not new to helicopters as i have experience with helicopters in other sims like DCS for example (Huey and Apache) and in MSFS is impossible for me to fly them... which is kind of a bummer cause i was waiting for this patch mainly because of them...
There is an improvement mod for the Bell though I'm really not sure if it fixes these issues.
Maybe you just need to create separate profiles for helicopters and map the helicopter controls there ONLY? At least that's what I did and I never run into that problem.
@@shozi6646 Except I don't think either of them actually do get into VRS, but apart from that they both feel pretty good - especially the Cabri.
@@shozi6646 i'll try that again but so far i had no luck with it.
@@getsideways7257 yep i tried that but without any luck so far... when i get home from work i'll try that again with a new Hotas and see if that solves the problem.
In ANY flight sim while trying out a new aircraft ALWAYS make sure the virtual controls move in accordance with your controller inputs. If they move the opposite - reverse them.
If you can't figure their positions, then just take note of how the aircraft itself reacts.
The helicopters "jumping up" during starting for the very first time is a common situation in flight simulators. Also, the toe brakes being reversed is a pretty common problem - it's all because the controller/driver standards are pretty loose to begin with.
Same thing with any other simulators, including car sims - there it's often needed to reverse the force feedback on the wheel, for example.
Instead of trimming the cyclic it's best to remove the springs from your joystick (makes sense to keep a separate stick just for this very purpose). You need to keep it straight before the flight somehow (a real cyclic has "friction" locks for that purpose), but once you have started taking off and are finally airborne - you'll thank yourself for this.
Setting the rotor lateral and longitudinal trims in the NEW controls tab makes life easier.
I haven't finished the video yet, but the spinning and "we interrupt this video" has me loling so hard
It's just a sim.. might as well have fun lol
With the introduction to helicopters for new simmers. (Not the ones who have been siming multiple titles) we always find them back where we were when we started. Best rule of advice I can give. Test your controls before committing an engine start, or take off.
I flew this manually last evening, my second ever try and what i noticed is smth which in Warthunder has modeled as well. If you do full burn throttle is instable, stick to 60-70% throttle, i flew it for 30 min, had no issues at all. Assists off (except ATC AI communication), realistic mode, was ok in feeling and control
the hype performance 145 you dont need to make any changes to flight stick. yes the green dash is lame
There Is a rotary dial on the overhead panel turn to down to 10%
I thought it was just my helicopter skills that were lacking!! But this update has killed autopilot! The plane veers off course just when starting approach! Wow!
You learn how to Fly a helicopter 🚁 and use it in VR . it is absolutely awesome!
I have to say that, on selecting the Bell first time, I jumped in, started up, and although I didn't have the problem that you (Overkill) had, she certainly started yawing to the right as I increased the throttle and collective, but that was reasonably easy to stabilise. Of course, I'm using a very old, tired and somewhat sticky Saitek X52, and I made absolutely no changes to the profile or settings (I never set up profiles until I see what the initial installation produces). Forward flight was slow - I couldn't get it beyond 60 knots - and settind down was exactly as you said about the slow torque making things quite difficult.
Now that I've had my first dealings, I'll set up a profile and make the initial corrections as needed. But I definitely didn't experience the "unflyable" situation mentioned. Having said that, I really must get a new replacement for the Saitek, At 76 years old, I may as well spend the money - my bills are paid and I have all the groceries I need - no problems!! The big question is, what should I buy? Virpil is much too much, so it will probably be Thrustmaster, unles someone can recommend a better one.
Thanks for overview Overkill.
I've been messing around with Microsoft flight sim since the early days. No matter what version of sim you have. You will always half to tinker with the settings. Also if you have zero flight experience I would suggest watching a youtube video of the real aircraft cockpit start up and instruction videos. Will help you find your way around the cockpit. If your just goofing around though and don't want to do the research may want to just stick with the cessna 152. Lol lol
I've had the 407 just stop responding on the controls and just spin out of the sky 5 time now. also left pedal authority is very weak. It feels like i'm getting into VRS way too easily, she feels good and feels very wrong at the same time.
The sad thing for is, I love Bell Helicopters because it was the first thing I ever flew (the 206 I believe) when my grandpa first introduced me to the Flight Sim world with Flight Simulator '98.
Why is it sad, try reading some of these comments instead of the video. To be fair to Overkill he was just trying to go through what we had all done but the helicopter is fine if you know what's going on but it can take a little while if your settings are not setup correctly and that's so easy to do with all the various control systems out there.
My Lessons Learned with the 407:
-Most of the comments I have seen from IRL helicopter pilots say the flight model is fine. Don't give up.
-If you try to learn to fly the 407 and don't have helicopter experience (like me) don't bother. Start with the Cabri instead.
-Spend several hours working on takeoffs, hover, landing, low taxi, pedal turns, square turns and quick stops in the Cabri and get good before transitioning to the 407. UA-cam for real life videos on these maneuvers, flight training, ground school, etc., and then go practice them. A lot.
-I tried to fly the 407 a month ago and thought it was garbage. Now I have about 20 hours (at least half of that doing training maneuvers) in the Cabri and I think the 407 is a lot of fun. As soon as I had built up motor memory and got an intuitive sense on the Cabri, I came back to the 407 and immediately mastered it. I guess flying a helicopter is like learning to ride a bike. You have to break through to the point where you do it unconsciously.
-Set all your joystick curves to full linear.
-Loosen your throttle tension.
-Loosen your joystick spring tension. I used long twisty-ties (found on bread bags or the wiring with new electronics). Slide them around 2-3 coils, move the stick to full-lock to compress the spring, and then twist down the tie. Experiment. By compressing part of the tension spring, you reduce its strength.
-Pedals are a must. You need to make rapid adjustments with fine control and a controller or a yaw-twisting joystick robs you of the required travel and fine control. As a real life fixed wing pilot, I assure you pedals are not a gimmick, boondoggle or hornswaggle dreamed up by a sales department. In the sim helicopter, they are crucial.
I hope that helps somebody. Good luck and enjoy!
Interesting that the auto startup doesn’t turn the attitude indicator on, whole flight had the gauge not working. It’s a switch in the ceiling cluster
I actually just jumped in and it worked with my default profile (HOTAS) but I think after watching this I will create a specific profile for the Helo as I need to find a way to get trim on a button or two and relieve the forward stick pressure for the longer flights! 👍🏼
Just gone through and made a dedicated helicopter control configuration and I have to say the helicopter is much nicer using this profile rather than the normal one I have for planes. Thanks for the tip👍🏼
I've had no issues with the Bell. Besides it not wanting to fly 100kts level, but there's a mod that helps performance.
Same here, I started it up with the default checklist and it seems fine. The main issue is that it doesn't include the Pedal Stop, which you certainly want to have on. (In the real aircraft, at least, giving full left pedal without the Pedal Stop will parasitise too much power from the main rotor.)
@@Tobascodagama In reality, promptly giving it full left pedal while at speed could lead to the tail rotor hitting the tail boom. The pedal stop only kicks in at certain speeds.
The modeling involved here definitely is not good enough for the pedal stop to be necessary.
I fixed my issue, same issue many here are fighting with. The out of control clockwise spinning of the Bell 407 and the Cabri G2. I can't say this will fix everyone's issue, but it's worth a try. First off, let me say this: I use the Steam version of MSFS 2020 and I use a stand alone 3rd party app called MSFS Addons Linker, so this made it a bit easier for me to go about fixing the issue.
1st: Disable all your addons - This is where Addons Linker made the job simple.
2nd: Uninstall MSFS 2020 completely. Either from Windows Control Panel / Add & Remove programs, or directly through your Steam Library. If you play it on Xbox, sorry can't help you there.
3rd: If you are a PC user, and you are familiar with using RegEdit safely, then delete all instances of Flight Simulator from the Windows Registry.
4th: Re-install MSFS2020 from the source you acquired it from (i.e. MS Store, Steam, etc..) Yes I know it's a long process, hopefully you have fast internet.
5th: Launch MSFS and immediately go into Options / Controllers and delete and custom controller presets you may have created. Reset all Sensitivities. You are basically putting MSFS back to it's "vanilla" state.
6th: Go into Options / Assistance and reset all back to default.
7th: While in the Assistance Options, Set PILOTING / Assisted Takeoff to OFF, Set Everything Else in PILOTING to ON. The AI Communication doesn't matter if it's on or off.
8th: Apply the changes and go test the Bell 407 and the Cabri G2.
If the issue is resolved then add your add-ons back gradually and test often. This is to reassure an addon is not causing a conflict. My issue was not addon confliction related, but Sim corruption related. A full uninstall / re-install and reset of the options / settings was the only wat to fix it. Now I am pleased to say that the 40th Anniversary update is NOT complete garbage... now to figure out why inBuilds A310 will not switch from VOR to GPS and allow the AP to fly the designated FP route (magenta line).
Other than the bell 47 this is my second favorite helicopter in the sim. my only complaint is the doors wont open and the rotor brake is inop.
If you want to fly helicopters more often, then invest in a collective. You have already some Virpil peripherals, so you know their quality, they also have an excellent collective. It takes only minutes to get used to lowering the collective to go down instead of pulling it. You have instant feedback on how it works so your brain learns quickly! And it add
s to the immersion. I have the Virpil collective btw.
Pushed myself to migrate to the correct collective orientation for DCS a couple of years back, and it was a game-changer for me, so much more intuitive.
I just use my flap lever on my Virpil throttle as the collective.
Nice video 👊👍
The only problem I've had is the startup isn't correct. Nor is the throttle behavior.
And the rotor brake doesn't seem to function.
But other than that. It seems okay. The sounds are really good. And it's nice to fly.
One of the issues with flying helicopters is only small imputes of the cyclic is required. Trying to do small movements with a short joystick is actually really hard to do. A long cyclic (joystick) is significantly easier and will resolve a lot of finer control issues. Extensions can be purchased for some joysticks and is well worth it.
It has nothing to do with "flying helicopters" and everything to do with the Bell 407 being broken. The Cabri G2 works just fine.
You have to bind the four rotor trims (left/right and up/down) in addition to the collective. I like the tobii eye tracker myself since I don't have to wear anything.
Comment on Helicopter flight controls... in particular the Cyclic. For the most accurate and realistic experience obtain a joystick where you can remove the spring loading that wants to push the joystick back to center.
Why?
In a fixed wing aircraft, you follow the process of Power, Atitude & Trim. Set Power for the flight regime you want, set the attitude that you want and trim out the control forces and then fly about that trim setting.
Helicopters generally do not fly this way. When flying a rotary wing aircraft the cyclic is generally moved to set the attitude desired and held there,; constant small adjustments are made throughout the flight. Doing this with a spring loaded joystick is going to get fatiguing and will make for not a very smooth flight.
There are some pilots who will fly through the trim, but the majority of rotary wing aviators are "button smashers" meaning they are releasing the trim, repositioning the cyclic and then releasing the trim. (The force trim re-engages when the trim button is released). In most circumstances, a control input is put in and then half is taken back out almost immediately. Also, for me I typically had my forearm resting on my right leg, this creates a reference point about which I move my wrist to put in control input. In large part, I am flying with 2-3 fingers on the cyclic (joy stick).
There are some pilots who will fly with a trim via the "coolie cap" (this moves the cyclic forward back, left and right) however; this is ineffective when trying to land or when doing maneuvers like hovering over a boat or elevated pad landings.
I have found the helicopter in the Sim very good and remarkably accurate; I think it is the first time I have flown a sim where the flight modelng seems accurate. There are two setting under assistance for for Cyclic and pedals; because joy sticks are not exctly like a helicopter control, I would suggest having that engaged makes it more realistic then not having it. In a real helicopter there is some degree of inherent stability from gyroscopic precession and without that assistance fells like it make the helicopter more unstable when how it is in reality.
I was a USCG MH-65 pilot, with about 1700 hours total time, not a lot but a enough experience that I feel confident in my assessment. I highly recommend flying with joystick where the spring loading is off, with a little pratice you will understand what I am talking about here.
Cheers
John
Yes. You have helped me a lot to set up helocopters. The big thing that I need is a flight stick. I have been flying with a yoke for a loooong time. Christmas is coming, however. Don't know if I can wait that long for a flight stick.
Ive flown 206 before, pedals were like driving a tractor heavy but cyclic was stupidly sensitive
VPC Throttle should be set for pull back on throttle = up collective. push down throttle = down collective.....anything else is not following helo collective mechanics. You are making it complicated where it doesn't need to be (by using fixed-wing throttle directions). The obvious answer to all of this is to buy a collective but then why not do a cyclic too. But many of us don't want to have to switch out all of the equipment to fly helo. I made a custom FF cyclic from an old M$ FF but i always and I mean always have my throttle feedback mimic a helo not a fixed wing. Don't make it complicated by trying to make it simple. Love this channel.
Oh I wasn't trying to tell others to do that. It's just what I prefer until I get my collective from Virpil. My apologies if that's how it came across
@@OverkillSimulations ah, gotcha, no, i understand now. everyone has their way of doing it. also, I just like to think that if we do it right out of the gate, when he get a collective down the road, it won't require re-training. I get what you're saying!
Good to see helicopters in the sim from ms
I'm having trouble with the 737-MAX. It flies like a blimp!!! I wish I could get my money back!!! Great Video!
Will you be showcasing the dc-3?
Yes indeed
Turned all the assist off and the trim still is un adjustable with an xbox controller. You have to manually go into the cockpit and tweak it with the controls in there... hopefully they get it fixed. Also doesn't make sense that the throttle constantly says 100% when we have to use it to guide us up and down... it should change from 0 to 100% as we take off and land. Frustrating but it's new so I guess it's expected.
Helis are touchy and hard to fly, only if you have assited ones like (in real life) fly-by-wire heavily computer supported like in the H145 and others like that.
What I do not understand is that some users deactivate all “helpers”, prefer a simulator though have no helicopter equipment/joystick (incl. collector etc.) and create no new profile. All other input devices need configuration, I mean in DCS world we often change everything and tinker a bit here and there, sometimes from plane to plane.
So I thank Overkill for his support, I hope many will see it -> overall it seems like a configuration problem of the Joystick/Hotas and unknown user input (I saw even a comparison to Arma III - wow, the helis there are not on a simulation level) as before there were no good helis - besides the H145 which was a little wonder - as the aerodynamics/physics were not implemented. A little configuration and trial this seems to work.
Keep the blue side up, cheers,
Pepe
The trouble is that by default MSFS helicopters use the default plane controls/axis, if you use the "dedicated" helicopter axis assignments in the same profile, they can conflict i.e. you might set the plane "throttle" to push for acceleration and the helicopter collective to "pull" but when in plane/helicopter neither controls in the cockpit will have the correct range/position and/or "jump/stick" to the mid point.
I found out why it was that unstable , anyways it is still unstable but flys better when u realize autoturning on the heli doesn't set fuel boost on and doesn't touch the throttle for some reason
If you have any hope of ever flying a real heli, I would strongly encourage you to configure the collective correctly. It's not a throttle as I'm sure you know. I used to fly both planes and helis IRL (learning in airplanes first), and I never had any issue with this at all. To me it's simple -- pull up or back to go up, push down or forward to go down. I used my TMW throttle as a collective for a long time (I now have a Virpil collective) and it just "felt right" to pull back to go up.
At any rate, thanks for the video!
Love and appreciate all you do for the community, and happy for those this workaround helped but sadly it doesn't work for me. When I use either of the supplied helos as soon as I lift the collective, no matter how gently and with hands off cyclic, before it even gets into a ground effect hover it rolls and spins in ever increasingly violent circles. I've tried with "piloting" options set to hard/easy and multiple settings in between with the same results. I even tried the suggested switching "Flight Model" between Modern and Legacy, still no joy.
I was so happy they bring helicopters and it just spins around like hell why did the firs helicoptermod worknwithout problem and here we get a spinning one.
Great video.
But from day one I found Bell is great. I have different joystick setting for helicopters and all my other aircraft, which helps. I only found the issues with the Bell and tork in between transition of flight to landing, especially if you want to perform a hover landing. She gets squirely, but just drop the collective and tork a bit and she recovers. But try to keep some forward momentum in thecBell, on landing, like with circling down right to land and perform a small heuy skid slide and you'll have no issues. She's great.....
The Bell 407 is great for sight seeing and yiu should fly her over London, MSFS2020 is gorgeous.
So, I have to take my hat off to Asobo and MSFS2020 and the recent 40th Anniversary, its a game changer...
ATTENTION: If you are like me, your heli nose dives or goes vertical & spins out of control shortly after takeoff, it's because your flight setting are not on hard. In easy mode the pilot assist wants to take over. I noticed in MSFS 2020 they really went overboard with the assist & I mean really overboard. Leave the aircraft setting on hard & you want have any problems with assist. Aircraft are slightly harder to fly but you'll get the hang of it naturally with time.
You welcome!
A problem I had when flying is when I lower my collective below half way, my cyclic in game won't move forwards or backwards and the game just freezes it in place no matter how much I tug on my real life controller, I can only move it left or right which is so annoying. 90% of the time when I go to land, the game takes over and freezes my in-game cyclic in the forwards or backwards motion making the helicopter unable to be controlled when I reduce collective.
FYI: I have assist off so the game isn't supposed to take over.
I had issues when mapping aircraft and helicopter axis assignments on the same profile (it's like both inputs are used and they can/do conflict). Once I cleared the helicopter assignment, the regular (default ?) stick assignment worked fine for the cyclic as well. Same is true for the collective when throttle and power cyclic axis are different i.e. one is reversed and the other not - axis movement is reduced and travel sticks/stops at the mid point.
@@Ramsay58 My mapping is all worked out, but every time I lower my collective or add more collective "too fast", the game panics and freezes my cyclic even though I'm moving my joystick/flight stick around. It works just fine when I'm cruising, but I know it isn't an issue with mapping since it only occurs when I do something with the collective to change the power of the heliopter. It hasn't done that in the Cabri either, only the Bell 407. Before the 40th anniversary update, something called the Kamov was released in the MSFS marketplace and it did it on that to, until the developers updated the aircraft. It's simply just a problem with the 407 I believe.
Unrelated to the rest of my report, the rotor brakes on the Bell 407 don't even work either, the lever goes back to it's origin when you try to hold it down. It's relatively disappointing considering the amount of time they had to test everything. But, we all make mistakes and I believe MSFS is already working on repairing the braking issue. Not sure about the issue where my cyclic freezes though.
I have 2 joystick types and a honeycomb throttle plugged into a powered usb hub, do I need to unplug the unused joystick and honeycomb ? Will there be a conflict with the selected joystick with the helicopter profile shut up? Or can they all stay plugged in while using the control with the helicopter profile?
@@brian-ue3rh After flying both helicopters (and setting their controls), I had similar issues with the throttle in the C172 Classic (kept detecting a phantom input and jumping back to center unless I kept moving the throttle). Only after switching to the "Legacy" Flight Model, setting and applying "realistic settings", restarting the sim and going back to the "Modern" flight model setting did it's throttle work. So it looks like there might be a per aircraft joystick config that needs updated "realistic settings" even when using the "Modern" flight model but I don't understand the exact logic of what's going on. AFAIK the sim should ignore controls that aren't assigned in the active profile but I've left my unused xbox controller unplugged while fault finding.
I won a Tobii Eyetracker 5 in the Reno Air Race Series tournament by MSFS Official and I’ve found it’s more trouble than it’s worth most of the time. Great for startup but for actually flying it becomes real twitchy and a bit of a pain. Love the product, just find using the POV Hat easier than messing with Head/Eyetracking
i’d def recommend trying head tracking , eye tracking not so much, but head tracking is top tier once you have it configured!!
@@ElementAVGM That’s what I use the Tobii 5 for. I turn off eye tracking and just use the head tracking. I’m usually doing many things at once when I fly and the tracker never re-centers properly and it’s just a waste of my time
I use an Xbox pad and it all controlled as i expected, but i am having a hard time trying to fly it smoothly.
Yah, my 407 certainly does not fly like that and I have the throttle set just like yours. I also do not have trim in helicopters, unless it's a different button.
You gotta get the virpil collective 👏👍
It's funny that when things fly realistically people think they're broken.
what your showings not like my experience, the helicopter upon leaving the ground immediately starts pitching back and forth violently and rolling side to side, its COMPLETELY unflyable... not sure if my flight model is corrupted or if some thing is interfering with the flight model that is corrupt...
No problems at all with the helos on first attempt.
Running true to life settings but had to clear flight contol mappings from the oculus controllers.
DC-3 though yaws off the runway severely on takeoff and Jenny has a funky vr pilot position.
Resetting all settings fixed dc-3
Same! The helicopters WERE an issue on release day Friday. Installed update, I restarted the whole program. Problems with heli's persisted. But oddly that night that was "fixed?" Seemed to work MUCH better. Still have issues with DC-3 (same veering off runway problems, also throttle goes down and I can't even take off) and on my end, the A310. The A310 problem is throttle is way up and I cannot decrease speed at all, also cockpit view is extremely glitchy.
The Airlands studio channel is currently featuring lessons on helicopter handling and adjustments....................................
It has trim. I had same problem. You have to set it to a different trim from the normal airplane trim
Ohhhh there IS cyclic trim...
But I can't get to work.
@@topofthegreen yes you can , search for (rotor trim longitudinale) for nose up and down , (rotor trim lateral ) for left and righr trim , and set a reset binding ( rotor trim reset ) .
GREAT tutorial thanks! !! !!! as usual
What's with the head position though? It's so high. Also I've noticed the ridder controls down on the bottom are busted, and when opening the co pilots vent, the sound changes but it doesn't open visually. There's also barely any changes in the rotor sounds during flight. Oh and the entire cyclic plate on both helis aren't animated at all. Very unimpressed with both
Im sure I just missed something as I havent watch all of the video but, did you have the throttle at idle, at 09:45 mins it was still idle ?
my problem so far is the lack of a bindable force trim button, which sets the current (virtual) joystick position to a new center position, so that i can release my real joystick.
i also noticed that retreating blade stalls and VRS doesnt seem to be simulated.
otherwise i really like it, fun to fly!
On the same page as you are. When I tried to force RBS I went past 160 knots while VNE is 110. Kind of ruins the fun for me.
@@nazradu i was so fast, the needle was at 0 kts again 🤣 downhill with full collective
@@NWGJulian yep that's what I managed with the small one too. Other than that I have the feeling the inputs are somehow dampened on those choppers, but I was just hopping in and did not read about them. So I have no idea if they have some kind of SAS irl. Curves straight and no assists on.
Why's the slip ball glued into place? I don't think I saw that going on while I was flying the 407...
They need to fix the throttle. It's only an animation and has no effect to the RPM whether it's idle or fly the RPM stays in fly mode. real bummer.
Have you noticed that your artificial horizon gauge do not work
Most of the issues ppl are having I as a result of incorrect setup and not being familiar with how helis really work
I made a new profile for my stick and I also have the bravo and alpha is there a way to disable The other controls like the bravo and alpha or are they just always on ,when I select the profile for the stick that's labeled helicopter the bravo still works and the alpha for that regards?
The only thing wrong for me on Xbox with controller is the rotor brake doesn’t works apart from that everything work beautiful but it’s just annoying to shut it down you have to wait like 5 mins for the blades to chill out 😂
This update f****ked me sideways from leaving or entering O'Hare airport 🤦🏽♂️
You had the panel lights then gave up on turning it down lol
looks good, its supposed to be touchy and get violent
I actually think for now, every one who using Xbox Controller will have better "fun" with assists. Helicopters basically have "two" throttle's. Collective and Throttle, it's very difficult to pilot and enjoy it with controller. I think it's even not so idle with standard HOTAS. Have fun everyone.
I can call out a few parts for the issues/pros
➛ the cockpit seems bland and small, and the lights are heavily bright unlike the H145 where the view feels immersive
➛The aircraft does have detail, I cannot get tired of the sound
➛helicopter does lack customizations(configs) like cable cutters, searchlight, FLIR, Floats, Franham Dampe (rotor disc) like the XP11 Bell 407 and in FSX
➛On start, the helicopter sounds automatically rolls the flight idle instead of a low pitch idle sound, which the throttle does not tie with the engine nor the sound for it just the physics
➛On shutdown, the rotorbrake does not stop the rotors and it is in a similar system with the H125 where the rotors do not stop
➛ The physics does act funny, but there is a mod for PC, but this is unfortunate for Xbox Simmers
Note: I do hope the helicopter gets fixed or people can mod to improve it, I seen Nemeths aircraft on FSX and then again this is fairly new so lets give it time!
I sort of fly ok but not easy like fixed wing...still too sketchy especially the 500Md😅
I noticed that you now make use of the MSFS profiles again instead of using SpadNext. Which I believe you used quite a lot in the past. Is there a specific reason for that? Just wondering as it would prevent a LOT of the profile switching I think.
Coming from someone with experience in real helicopters, I think for the first time in msfs history, they did a pretty good job on the cabri g2, my main gripe with the helicopters, even with the realism turned all the way up, everything true to life, the controls still are not sensitive enough like in real life. (Maybe that can be adjusted in fs and I just haven’t looked enough). But that’s my main gripe, their is still a few small things that I think need to be addressed, for example their take on ETL needs a little work. Now as for the Bell 407, not trying to be rude to Nemeth designs, but I think they dropped the ball on the 407 project. Their is a ton of little things that should of been proper before release. A few aggravating pieces for me, the helicopter is way under powered, it struggles to maintain 100kts, on a good clear day it can easily maintain 120-130 and the vertical stabilizer has no effect on the aircraft in forward flight, requires a ton of left pedal to stay in trim. Again I’m not talking about in a hover, IN FORWARD FLIGHT. also the aircraft in real life has a little more tail rotor authority then what they give it in the sim. Theirs no sound dynamics in the rotor system, in the engine yes, but rotor system no. Also their seems to be absolutely no correlation between the engine and throttle, you roll the throttle to idle and we’re still running at 100%. Anyway it has plenty of quirks that need to be worked out. In my opinion, for those who say helicopters are too hard to fly on the sim, it’s a Simulator not a video game. So IF you have the realism turned up all the way on everything, they should be as real to life as absolute possible! But I will agree, for what the sim is going for, if someone just wants to play in helicopters, they should be able to adjust the settings low and they should be more flyable, but with that said, take the time and learn to fly the aircraft and turn crash off so when you go skid side up, you can just reset and keep going! You have to build that coordination. So for me, Microsoft and asobo, please keep the realism for the helicopters! ** also, I think for those who are complaining about helicopters being hard to fly and need the easy settings to be easier, I’m okay with that, I just hope for the community’s sake, asobo and ms doesn’t listen to the feedback from those who have absolutely no real experience in rotorcraft. Of course if someone has never been around for example the bell 407 in real life let alone fly it, and they use it on the sim, then say well other than it being hard to fly it’s fine. We’re just cutting the fun short for everybody! Again just talking in general! Not pointing fingers anywhere!
Well said, I noticed everything you mentioned during my first flight of the 407 in msfs. I went into to xplane11 and flew the 407 there, everything works as expected. Unfortunately there are some things need fixing in the msfs 407, the throttle thing is annoying and the way the vertical stabilizer doesn't do much when you are in forward flight... just look at the ball when you're flying, it's not centered unless you add a ton of left pedal. Also there are bindings for helicopters in the settings that seem to do nothing... it's very broken, hopefully more people point this out and they will fix it soon.
When I go start very slowly and get up careful it spins linke crazy and the pedals didn't work at all ☹️
@@robertb.3651 try going in your settings and find the throttle axis, make sure it's not reversed to however you're trying to use it otherwise when the throttle sees a change it will jump to that spot on the axis
Well said. I’m a helicopter pilot and fly the 407 sometimes. They dropped the ball on alot very basic stuff that should have been in mind within the first few stages of development. Like you said no throttle correlation. Propulsion instrument ie: mgt torque ng do not correlate properly either. A lot of initial battery on faults like beeps and proper bit tests etc. probably the biggest notice as you noted the 407 is a hot rod,with full fuel and 80 percent torque it’s a 120-130 indicated machine and that’s not even setting max continuous torque. Hoping they make some improvements!
bro, I tested it today, it is mostly unflyable to me, it turns left and right, it is unstable and erratically changes direction at lower speeds, I dunno if it's cause I'm using the keyboard but it is really difficult to handle compared to the other helicopter
Well lookie who just hit 30K subscribers! 🙂
Yeeeeaaaahhh Buuuuuuddddyyyy :)
idk I mapped my joystick and I still have complete lack of control, it gyrates, veers off to the left or right and usually end upside down, note I have flown helicopters a lot in msfs, but using the older Airland fs method. But I don't understand why I have no Lateral control, even though I am mapped to it.
EXACTLY!!!! UNCONTROLLERABLE SPIN!!!! i dont have collective axis, im using a xbox one controller, Alt + F4 AGAIN! I QUIT SHIT UPDATE, id love a flight stick etc but too much money! controller should do it some what its not a problem in other games, i really hoped the Xbox console release would fix controller issues.
I found I had to deselect and reselect the pedal mapping before they would respond at all. Other than that it seemed okay
What joystick and pedals are you using? Not familiar with Virpil.
Virpil base and mongoose stick
Thrustmaster TPR rudder pedals
I have a full review of my Virpil controls on my channel
The artificial horizon and the turn/slip indicator isn't working...🤔
this is the only problem that I had was the camera view is located outside to the right and is this way with or without track it the other chopper and the 145 function, this one not functioning
Tried again flying this last night and it's still a mess.
How are you doing an auto start?
The developers could have fun with the Bell 407.
I can fly the helicopter fine, I'm just struggling to land it at times though.
Why is the artificial horizon not working in your vid ? Pete on wife’s ipad
how do you activate the Garmin in the Heli ?
Are you still using that tracker from etsy?
How do your trip as the sim wont let me ???????????
MS really don’t like opening doors do they?
This thing is so unstable. I told my wife if helicopters are this hard to fly....we should never fly in one LOL. I used to fly R/C helicopters with a mechanical gyro (25+ years ago). It was much easier the fly than this model.
Ok so I’m on controller and I don’t have this setting? Any ideas
Thanks!!
Dials radioactive?
It's really hard to fly on xbox controller. Microsoft needs to implement joystick support for Xbox Cloud Gaming
I dislike the Fishbowl effect in it. MSFS 2004's Bell helicopter was better in that regard.
un-flyable, so they got it right then. I don't know why the Cabri feels like it has heavy stability controls with everything set to hard, going to have to research the Cabri but I feel they didnt want that model to feel tough to fly. It seems way too easy for a helicopter that size, I have suspicions. Anyone know why I cant un-link the throttle from the collective in controls? whenever I set a throttle axis, I just get a second collective.
Trying the 407 first time tonight. Not happy. How do I fly it with a standard flghtstick? I like your videos and I am a subscriber. Please less superlatives and more step by step would be appreciated. Thanks.
I will do my best bud. My apologies
@@OverkillSimulations
Don’t get me wrong, your contributions are awesome!