Are adventure conversions of big bore enduro bikes worthwhile?︱Cross Training Adventure
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- crosstrainingen... The unicorn adventure bike! Light weight. Powerful. Great suspension. Is it really possible? Many have tried adventure conversions of enduro bikes like the 450 and 500cc dirt bikes. Gordon is in his late 60s and he's constantly searching for the perfect motorbike for dual sport and adventure riding. His most recent choices? A DR650. KTM 690. KTM 390. Husqvarna 701. Welcome to Cross Training Adventure, we are into all things dual sport and adventure on the east coast of Australia. And now a Husqvarna 501. Gordon's health issues have put a real focus on light weight nowadays. What an epic motorbike. If you like dual sport riding in Australia then you might like our adventure riding vids. KTM should be sued for discontinuing this model. A Beta RR480. Big tank. Custom seat. And the light weight is evidently agreeing with him. I love the DR650. But I am seriously thinking of a new adventure project. Converting a big bore dirt motorbike... again. I have done adventure conversions of enduro bikes in the past. A Yamaha WR450F. Cush drive hub. Check out our reviews of various adventure bikes and dual sport bikes. Added a one litre oil cooler. Comfortable seat. Next was the Husaberg FE570. Cush drive hub. Repadded seat. A G2 Throttle Tamer to reduce that 'snappy' fuel injection. As the tracks got rougher, they were incredible to ride as an adventure conversion of an enduro bike. But they completely sucked for road riding. If you spend a lot of time on bitumen, there is simply too much compromise involved. Lets start with all the good points of adventurising a big bore enduro. Light weight. Great power. Lots of suspension. Brilliant in gnarly terrain. What sucks? Road riding is usually terrible for lots of reasons. No windscreen. Keen on adventure riding in Australia? Check out our vids. The lack of a cush drive hub just makes this worse. In some cases, you'll have a narrow range gearbox which sucks for dual sport and adventure riding. There's lots of engine noise and more vibration. You pay for all that engine performance with higher maintenance. The short stroke engines with small piston skirts mean you really shouldn't ride these motorbikes at low revs or you can dramatically increase piston wear. There's a wide range of windscreens that can adapted for enduro motorbikes. There are even rally fairings if you want to spend a fortune. The G2 Throttle Tamer is brilliant for reducing that snappy throttle response. The road equipment is usually poor - crap headlights, tiny indicators and an ineffective horn. The hard narrow seats will see you standing a lot. No pillion passengers of course. The low stator output can cause issues if you want to run better lights, heated handgrips and electronic gadgets. And there are no quick puncture repairs due to spoked wheels with tubes. Cush drive hubs are expensive but reduce drivetrain wear and make things much smoother on the road. Sell it separately when you sell your motorbike and you'll recoup quite a bit of your money. Gearing? Ensure you have good wide range gearbox. Oil capacity? Choose a motorbike with at least 1.5 litre capacity if possible. Some examples? The WR450F sucks with only 800ml. A KTM 500EXCF has 1.5 litres. An SWM RS500R has a respectable 1.7 litres. No price announced yet but the AJPs are usually very competitive when it comes to price. There's a lot of talk about the Kove 450. Personally I wouldn't buy a Chinese made motorbike until they'd been around for a few years and lots of owner reports indicated the long-term quality was reasonable. Also it ain't light. It has a reported 145kg (320lb) weight without fuel. What about you? Ever converted an enduro model for dual sport or adventure riding? Happy with the results? What sort of modifications? Let us know in the comments. If you hate oil changes, avoid the Beta RS500 which has separate engine and transmission oils. If you are tall you can modify existing seats with a wider block of foam and then just staple a vinyl cover on. In some cases there will be aftermarket seats but they are bloody expensive. Do you hate puncture repairs? Fit the TUbliss system and just plug any punctures in two minutes. Awesome product but expensive. I have it on all my motorbikes. But the good news is the range of budget models available. We already mentioned the SWM RS500R. The engine is based on the old Husqvarna TE510 model. It has the narrow range gearbox but an excellent oil capacity. But the price is brilliant. It's almost half the price of a Husqvarna 501. I'm seriously tempted to look at this as my next motorbike. A very similar model? AJP has announced the SPR510R which is also based on the old FE510 engine but with lots of extra bling. If they put a wide ratio gearbox in this could be very tempting as well.
#crosstrainingadventure #adventureriding #adventurebikes #dualsportriding
#dualsportbikes
AN SWM RS500R ADVENTURE BUILD? Tips from viewer Daniel Ryle... The windshield from the SWM 650 I bought fits well with minor mods. The 19 litre safari tank for the old Husky TE510 model works well. SWM Superdual cush drive rear wheel will fit with the right wheel spacers!
Things that need attention like upgrading to ducati starter motor, power commander 23-004 with good mapping preferably with 12 port injector and 10 micron filter the dealership will use arrow map which is horrible, golan fuel filter & upgraded fuel pump which I can't think of the name stock is same is what is used on KTM'S which will have an early death! Suspension is really good KYB same as what is used on 2012 wr450 but for adventure riding will require $1500 to set it up right! Plastics are poor quality some have upgraded to husqvarna plastics but that requires different seat or reshaping of stock not such a big problem with safari tank though as front shrouds are not required!
If you join the SWM Australia & Newzealand Facebook page the guys on there will be able to fill you in with any questions you may have, dealerships will only talk shit.
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HUSQVARNA TE610 & SUBSEQUENT MODELS This info from Edgars Lūsis about the TE610, a great potential lightweight adv platform that never really took off. Briefly, around 2007, the BMW Group bought the Italian Husky factory. In 2010, they launched the TE630 (and SM630) by improving the TE610 platform. The frame is largely the same, and so is most of the bottom part of the engine. The top end was fitted with the twin-cam head from the previous generation SM510R supermoto, and the displacement was increased to 600cc. Other improvements like fueling, hydraulic clutch, and overall build quality were made. Soon in 2012, they discontinued the TE630 and SM630 and launched the TR650 based on BMW's GS650 platform. Around 2014, the BMW Group sold the Italian factory to SWM. In 2016, SWM reintroduced the former TE630 (and SM630) lineup as the SWM RS650R and SWM 650R. These bikes are pretty much the same as the TE630 and SM630 except for suspension and plastics. In 2018, SWM launched the SWM Superdual X, a beefed-up RS650 that is still in production to this day. At the same time, a UK motorcycle builder launched the CCM Spitfire, which has the same engine, and AJP launched the PR7, also featuring the same engine. All of these motorcycles have proven the longevity of the engine, and engine parts will be available for a while. Other parts are generic.
So, here are the pros for the TE630:
Weight can be reduced to below 140kg.
Long service intervals and easy maintenance accessibility-wise.
The most significant advantage is the wide gearbox; it perfectly matches the dual sport needs, just like the engine. It's relaxing and smooth but very punchy when fun is needed. Engine vibration is almost not noticeable. It sits amazingly well at cruising speeds and still has the power to overtake.
And here are the cons:
Clutch spring retainers need an upgrade.
One of the oil screens needs to be updated to SWM's improved one.
The lambda should be removed, a power-up kit installed, and dyno-tuned to unleash the full power and improve the engine's longevity.
The subframe needs work, which can be easily and inexpensively done via DIY.
Tank size and ergonomics could be improved.
The cush hub has multiple ways to be resolved.
The SWM RS650R, Superdual, and AJP PR7 use the gearbox from the SM630 model. It's still wide, but 5th and 6th gears are a bit shorter.
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DO YOU REALLY NEED A CUSH DRIVE HUB? My info... Lots of debate on this one, including guys who are using enduro bikes for dual sport or adventure riding. I'd be keen to hear opinions especially from bike mechanics with experience in this area. I've broken this down into categories that hopefully make sense.
Dirt bikes typically don't have a cush drive hub in the rear wheel. Road bikes typically do.... road/adventure riding places more stress on a gearbox, sprockets, chain and rear tire, because the rear tire normally slips a little in dirt with each combustion stroke (hence that little rooster tail under acceleration) and there is also the flex of knobby tires - both these effects act like a cush drive hub.
Guys who put motard wheels on their dirt bikes often debate whether a cush drive hub is needed. Some say there's a high risk of eventually killing your gearbox.... other riders say this is bullshit.
My very tentative conclusion? There is probably less need to fit a cush drive hub if:
- your bike is under 600cc
- you don't plan on clocking too many miles on the road
- your bike has a solid gearbox with no known issues
- you don't lug the engine at low revs.
The reasoning? Almost every dirt bike over 600cc has a cush drive hub, which strongly suggests the manufacturers think they are needed on the big thumpers (there is the occasional exception like the Husaberg FE650 and the Honda XR650).
Almost every road bike in existence has a cush drive hub, strongly suggesting that manufacturers think they are needed for doing a lot of road mileage - or at the very least they are worthwhile due to the smoother transmission of power to the ground.
If your bike has a light weight gearbox, or any known issues, then a cush drive hub probably isn't a bad idea to minimize possible problems. For example, some guys fit cheap supermoto wheels without a cush drive hub to the Suzuki DR650 - given the known issues with third gear occasionally self-destructing I would always go the cush drive hub. And rightly or wrongly, the Yamaha WR450F has gained a reputation for a weak gearbox so I'd probably slap a cush drive hub on those.
I have no evidence to back this up, but to me logic would suggest a cush drive hub would not be needed for a two stroke. The engine is firing twice as often and I suspect creating a small power pulse through the transmission on the combustion stroke. But what the hell would I know? Any mechanics or astrophysicists care to chime in? :)
For a single cylinder four stroke dirt bike, there's a big difference in everyday riding. Personally I found it just feels smoother, there's less chain snatch, and you really notice the difference when the revs are low... much less so in the higher revs. This makes a difference to your useable rev range on your bike, meaning a lot less gear changes in normal road riding. It can be likened to the difference between riding a single cylinder road bike compared to a twin cylinder. However, if you ride hard or race then this will make no difference. But for everyday riding, each combustion stroke of the piston is dampened. I figure the advantages would be:
- extended life of sprockets and chains
- reduced wear on the gear box and other moving parts
- smoother ride whether accelearating or deccelerating
- less wear of countershaft splines (important on certain bikes)
- longer rear tyre life.
Honda needs to take an XR650 and add adventure plastics and tank, electric start, cruise control and a Cush drive. Call it a dominator and do it for 15500 plus orc. Otherwise DR’s will continue to flourish. I would be interested to see how far triumph go with there dirt bike pursuits.
The dominator was a great bike I really wish I'd gone for one at the time looking back. But if I remember they did seem like a lot of money for what you got at the time. After all it only had a air cooled engine and it was only a single cylinder. Most of its rivals back then were water cooled and we saw that as a big thing at the time (not so much now)
Ya, what's the deal with that hey. They have such a great platform that only needs a few mods and it would sell like crazy. I would add some decent suspension and call it a day.
@@chrishart8548agreed mate the dominator worked so well, I loved riding them
Naaah... new stickers and colours would be fine,
I did exactly that what you said , took a standard Xr650r , adventurised it , estart kit , soft seat , larger tank , reinforced sub frame , windscreen , HID headlight , and some 23K later on top of the purchase price ended up with the best dam adventure bike . But the Cross trainer commentator is 100 % percent correct , after 12 years of adventure work doing say a 500 kilometre day in the saddle on and Xr650r , then try to back that up consistently for 5 days , you will feel it . Then do the same thing on a Tenere T700 , is a way different story . Of coarse the bikes are totally different and in the real rough stuff , I mean grade 3 plus , you want an XR or similar , but for kilometre Gobbling mile munching bike which you can back up on each day ist hard to beat a twin cylinder purpose built adventure bike , Just my two cents worth :)
I'm 55 and I've only had my DR650 for a year and a half. I need to keep riding it another decade or so to get my money's worth out of all the upgrades I've done.
The best ADV rig is a truck that can haul your plated enduro/dual sport AND all your camping or traveling gear, so u can enjoy yourself riding where u actually want to be riding instead of packing extremely light and wearing yourself out the miles it takes to get to where u want to be.
Right on
I have the truck but can't decide on the bike. Problem is also need the bike for weekend exploring which includes quite a bit of tar as well as possible commuting.
@@waldemarwellmann9785$5-6k will get a newer used bullet proof drz or klx300 with 50/50 tires. Air down and adjust suspension off-road. I rode a lot of enduro, but have settled back on dual sports cuz its more enjoyable just exploring and going wherever u want. 300lb range is light enough to handle harder trails but stable on fast dirt roads.
*BDR/overland riders have left your chat.
@@omicrondec you mean the ones that buy all the expensive gear to put around somewhere offroady to take selfies and film themselves? Hold on, gotta check my GPS to make sure Im on the right gravel road
I have the 650r with most of the comfortable adv gear on it including battery , heated grips , screen , plus pumper carb and rebuild performance engine parts. Its a very rewarding bike to ride with alot of nostalgia. Sold my ktm 500 cause this is more suited to my riding style without spending a packet on the 500. Will keep this one forever
Yep here the same. It's so good even 20 years later its embarrassing for the others imo😅
2009 KTM 530 EXC with a few mods works for me as a light ADV bike. Acerbis 3.4 gallon tank, Seat Concepts seat kit, HT Racing oil cooler, rear rack, Giant Loop and Wolfman bags, beefy skid plate. That generation engine had design issues (burning oil, oil migration, etc.), so at 250 hours I had Thumper Racing rebuild the engine with a big bore kit and merged the sumps, plus newer cam, oil pump, and water pump. I'm at 450 hours and 16K miles and it's still going strong. I generally ride 200 - 250 miles a day and half of that is paved roads getting to/from the good stuff and it doesn't suck. FWIW, I'm 63 and light is right.
Interesting, Garry! What size is it now with the big bore kit?
When you say merged the sumps do you mean combine the engine/trans oil? I just picked up a mint 09 530 that only needs the tank, seat, and oil cooler. Hows the big bore feel?
Hi Gary interested,do they vibrate a lot from the engine like my 08'husky 450,any starting problems?(slow turnover etc) do they " run smooth off the throttle? would be really interested to hear your thoughts cheers
I set up 2006 ktm 525 for adventure riding. All the usual mods(bar risers, comfort seat, stator&headlight upgrade, KKE cushdrive, 15 litre tank 280kms range, small screen. It's great for 700km plus overnight rides. Alas it wore out after 25000 kms. I rebuilt the top end, new valves, cam chain, stage 1 cam, new piston and hone. It truelly is a great bike for its age but engine parts and frequent maintenance are a killer. I recently purchased an swmrs650r so far it working out to be a good adventure bike platform. But by no means would I part with my 525, it puts a grin on my face with every twist of the throttle.
@@crosstrainingadventure It's now a 570.
My childhood c90 with granny gear! Mods were a milk crate, or boat cushion for a pillion.. diy Mods such as bent fork tubes & busted levers weren't good, but had the best
adventures !
Love it! We had gumboots and gardening gloves when we were kids...
@@crosstrainingadventure Dad bought it from his friend for 100 bucks, sold it 35 years later for the same!.. a true gem, wish I still had it
Between me and my riding buddies we have owned nearly every dualsport/adventure bike out there over the last 15 years. We have all spent a ton of money trying to get the perfect bike. ALL of us ended up with a street legal dirt bike , mostly KTM 500s.
Same for me buddy. You never get back in money what you have spent so I don't sell them. I have 4 adventure bike builds in my shed. And I won't stop there, I finish one and start planning my next. I figure your dead a long time so I going to ride and build bikes till I can't any more. It's the best fun you can have with your pants on
Amen!
@@terrydrew6245 a wise man once said "he who dies with the most motorcycles wins"
Bloody glad I landed on a 500 on bike number 2 ive already dropped enough money on it!
I second that, especially if you can find an older model (2011 and earlier) with the carburetor). With no annoying fuel pumps or silly electronics to deal with, they last forever! I have a friend who has a 2010 450 exc with over 200,000kms which I tested and it runs like new!
DR Z 400 S with bigger tank, small windscreen and soft luggage does everything for the least investment and hassle and weight.. I'm 65.
Great platform, I've had all three DRZ models over the years.
I have a 400sm that I’ve mostly converted to an ADV. It’s not perfect and could use a few more upgrades, but it gets the job done. Just wish it was more comfortable on the longer trips.
I run a 45t rear sprocket on my DR. Made up a chain to accommodate 13 thru 16 CS sprockets.
The 16t covers asphalt quickly at relatively low revs. The 14/45 combo is good for woods riding. Actually found the 13/45to be too low for woods riding. Too much shifting.
I also added a GPR stabilizer which helps with rubbing knobbies at high speed on asphalt.
I have a Beta 300, an Africa Twin and the mighty DR. The DR is still my favorite out of all 3 due to how versatile and simple it it is.
Here’s my mod list:
GSXR Exhaust with custom Hanger
FMF Header
BST40 Magic
Galfer Steel Brake Lines
Works connection frame guards
Steel case guards
Pro Cycle lowered peg kit
Brake snake
Shifter snake
Acerbis skid plate
AMP Oil Filter cover guard
JNS Engineering oil cooler guard
Skene LED controller
AUX lights
Rowe PDM60 power controller
Voltmeter
Red LED Speedo light
Hour meter tach
JNS Engineering aux light mount
Moose rack
Australia tail light with LED bulb
YZF front fender
Double take mirrors
Acerbis tank
Acerbis skid plate
Seat Concepts seat
Oxford heated grips
Cycra Pro-bend handguards
Baja Designs Squadron Pro
Baja Designs LED controller
Headlight guard
GPR Steering Stabilizer
Pro taper Suzuki / KTM bend fat bars
ASV folding levers
JNS CS cover
SKF Sealed Wheel Bearings
Cogent Dynamics Mohave Pro Shock with 7.6 Ohlins spring
Racetech Fork .52 Springs with Cogent Dynamics Drop-in Damper Cartridges
Sure I missed something ..
All the good stuff!
Cost more for parts than the bike
I've only replaced the silencer for a dg v2, the carb filter for a thin air, and air filter for lifetime k&n, Dunlop 606 front and rear tires, protaper contour Reed bends with protaper pillow top light grips and motion pro throttle tube, led flowing signals, tail tidy kit off procycle and replaced the front sprocket for a size smaller 14t. Handlebars have been my favorite upgrade so far. There's still a lot of other stuff like skid plates I'd like to add on but, with what I put in to it. It's really perfect
@@jadinwemette8251 I never did the tail tidy cause I have a custom vanity license plate that I don’t want bent to shit.
I do have fat bars on my pig. Pro taper CR high bend. Between that and lowered pegs it’s really a comfortable bike to stand on.
If you ride dirt consider swapping out that KN filter for a twin air foam filter. KN let’s in way too much dirt even when oiled properly.
I run a 45t rear sprocket with a 14t for all day off road stuff. 15 or 16 for dual sport/commuting gearing.
I may do a pumper carb one day but I’ve said that the last several years and haven’t done it yet lol
Finally replaced my 1st gen KLR 650 a with DRZ400S brought up to E spec. Not a lightweight by any stretch but revelatory compared to the KLR. At 69, weight and where I prefer to ride was the deciding issue. With the FCR carb, proper subframe, decent suspension, upgraded seat and decent service intervals, hopefully it'll due for a few years until my diminished physical abilities dictate something lighter. I still have to ride to my preferred areas, so once the bike and I have bonded, I may explore adding a wide ratio gear set. Hope the back is treating you well and look forward to your vids. Cheers.
Did the same thing. The Drz feels like a mountain bike compared to the Klr.
I just did as well. Big difference 👍👍
Nearly 63 years old. Just bought a EXC500 [ aftermarket support and knowledge for these bikes is huge ] , and I've added a 17L tank, low/soft seat, steering damper and will probably add Flexx bars, and a few other minor bits. My philosophy is simple, it's a hell of a lot easier to "soften' the EXC for the boring road bits, than it is to try and remove 50/60/70 kilo's off some porky modern "Adventure" bike. Servicing the bike is dead simple on the road and only requires a tiny bit of preplanning. I use the Green Chili rack system, and pack very lightly, indeed with cheap tough drybags. I'm quite confident this bike will add years to my riding experience. Bonus, when the going gets tough, this bike just eats up the countryside without effort. I've no idea as to why more people don't do this.......
I'd be interested to see long term if they need a cush drive hub, David. Years ago a fair number of riders found the countershaft splines wore out quickly with adventure/road riding the old 525EXC and 530EXC models. An issue with the FE570 I had too.
Yeah......while I've ummed and aaahed about this for a while I decided, just now, to order a KKE Cush Drive rear hub. I figure the "reasonable" cost is worth a little piece of mind, even though I do strenuously avoid bitumen at all times🤔@@crosstrainingadventure
Also, there is a "mini" cush drive set up in the clutch basket assy, complete with rubbers to absorb driveline shock. All EXC's since about 2012?@@crosstrainingadventure
Yeah, although I'm building a light ADV based around the English CCM C25 Motocross bike, I ordered a set of Talon/Excel cush drive wheels for a KTM EXC500 as an insurance policy, just in case the CCM doesn't work out., or dissapoints. I checked they would fit first of course.
I went from a DRZ400E to a Gas Gas 700 for more road capabilities. I didn't think that the extra 20kg would make that much of a difference in the dirt, but it does. Now, I'm comfortable on the road but I can't throw the 700 around in the dirt like the DRZ. You can't have your cake and eat it. One bike will never be the unicorn.
So true, 20kg is a lot offroad.
@@crosstrainingadventure yes and where it "wears it"
Yes! My old FE570 had a lot of rear weight bias so it was important to try and centralise any luggage I strapped to it.
Did the full conversion on a FE501. Did one big trip. Bought a ktm 790 r.
Did it suck on the highway?
@crosstrainingadventure long distance, cross winds, just hard work in the "easy" sections
Still use it for day or 2 adventures but no way I'd do a big trip on one again.
My DR expired outback a week ago, so this is quite timely. I'm still looking for that unicorn, and would like something lighter, more powerful, more modern, but just as capable for my next. This trip, I noticed the long boring transport sections were even longer, boringer, and transportier than previous trips, which I took as a sign. Finishing early with a dead DR was an even bigger sign...🤔
Looking at options and prices, I may end up with another DR. KTM690s and clones appeal, but as you say, I'll need to spend a few bob to get one adventurised. I already have all the DR goodies, so 😂
Bummer about the DR! Seized? Or gearbox failure?
I daily ride a 15" 501 and the compromises are insignificant. Just a good seat and better indicators are needed. I only ever feel the compromise at 110 on the highway on a windy day. Nothing is as versatile as a big bore single!
Can't agree more. Big singles rule
I wish i could say that about my te450 08' vibrates like a road drill!!Im guessing the 501 is far more refined??
@@nickg2431 nope its like sitting on a paint shaker but it rarely bothers me. The occasional numbness in the clutch hand and the feet on a long ride. Should never get too comfortable on a motorcycle in Australia!
Really interesting point. I've barely noticed vibrations on any of my bikes but other riders will have the same bike and say their hands go numb after an hour.
@@atlas_au lol glad to know not only me suffering!maybe a beta or husaberg calls!
I race and ride a KTM 1090r. I expect eventually it’ll be a street steed when I get older but for now I can chuck it around pretty well. Not quite like a 500 but faster than you’d think. Just gotta get the stamina higher to do the fast stuff for longer. Practice practice practice
I'd keep the DR650 :)
I have a 500 exc 2012 modded for dualsporting...I've spent alot...tank, seat, fairing wit screen, HDB guards, mako and lots of other bits...use green chile soft luggage system...love it coz its lighter than say a GS or a t7...do mostly off-road - black top is doable but uncomfortable
Always that compromise! But I could live with something like your setup, we usually have 60 minutes of road from the city then it's endless dirt after that....
I've gone the other way around and stepped up in weight and gotten the road oriented variant and then just dealt with it offroad. I opted for a TR650 Strada over the Terra model as the 19/17" wheel combo is enormously better onroad and makes it effortlessly rail corners and flick about whilst also being far more stable. You lose a lot when onroad with 21/18"
I didn't even fit knobbies, just stuck with Pirelli Trail 2 which are heavily onroad biased. Very surprisingly to me I found I didn't miss offroad performance whatsoever because I changed my attitude. I stopped trying to make the bike fit my perception of what it should do, and instead appreciated that it shouldn't be as competent as it is
The extra weight and tyre width does a good job of regaining enough extra grip that it still has no issue in anything dry or loosely sandy. Whilst less rotating mass and size means it can flick around as easily as a 21/18" combo on a moderately lighter bike. Just don't hit square edges and deep potholes at excessive speed, and mud is obviously hopeless and quite dangerous on slicks. But outside of that i've had worn out knobbies on lighter bikes that grip less and were shittier to ride on than the Trail 2's and have had zero issues in the enjoyment department
Going the other way is far more difficult to find an acceptable balance of compromise, as you can't just slow down a bit or compensate with rider skill. On a highway you're going 100kph no matter what bike you're riding, yet a dirt focused bike will give you massive wind noise, unstable geometry and a piss poor seat that is uncomfortable no matter who you are. Yet when you're offroad you aren't at a fixed speed. You can always take some single track at 35kph instead of 45kph on a bigger bike and have just as much fun, maybe even moreso if you get a kick out of the fact that the bike has no place there yet its still doing it
I finally got the exhaust and jetting on my XR650R fully sorted, only to realize that I really don't like riding it on the pavement to get to the dirt. It feels like riding a heavy machine gun. Should I try a WR450? A 500 EXC? A CRF450RL? Nope. Going back to the DR.
I think Enduro bike conversions are worth it when you have a worthy bike to convert. I still have my trusty 525EXC that I have been flogging for 18 years. I actually have a few of them and if I can't pull the trigger on a Kove 450 or a CRF300 Rally to replace my 1983 Honda XL250R as my explorer I just mighthave to convert one. Most overlook the old RFS engine bikes because they are out of production and some parts are getting scarce but they are basically as reliable as any old Honda XR and pack more punch.
Between my 950 Adventure and the 525EXC I thought I had everything covered as far as street plated bikes were concerned but the addition of Elle Foofoo (the aforementioned XL250) brought me full-circle to my first "street" bike, a 1986 Yamaha XT350 that I purchased when I was 17. I went everywhere on it and explored countless trails and dirt roads. The XL250 brought that kind of riding back into my repertoire so to speak but inevitably being spoiled by newer bikes (including a 2021 Beta 500RRS that I tried to replace my 525EXC with and failed) allowed the thoughts of wanting more to creep into my head. I just want a little more power, a little more range, an electric start would be nice. Is a bit of wind protection too much to ask for? For the love of the Farkle King can I at least get a front disc brake? I just don't want the 950's 500+ lbs when I'm mapping out an old trap line where the ferns are chest high and I'm rubbing elbows with the trees.
And that's where the 525EXC comes in. Affectionately known as Gronkbike it's my "bullshit" bike because it has done it all. I have raced it in everything, Enduro, XC, Rallies, even MX. Despite having seemingly better bikes for the task it has taken me through the last two years of the Corduroy Enduro...in the Vet Expert courses. It's plated, it drones down pavement with no complaints, it absolutely hauls down gravel roads and it gets put away wet more often than not. It's my comfortable old running shoes of the lot. If my garage was on fire and I could only save one bike it would be the one. So worthy it is but if I convert it, if I do this, will it just be another feather in its cap or would it now wear a completely new hat? I think the latter is what I'm afraid of. When will the Chinese get around to finally copying this icon? I won't hold my breath...Excuse me while I go peruse Facebook marketplace for used Honda Rallys.
The RFS engine was brilliant, hey? I remember buying a motarded 525EXC with 25000km and thought surely the engine will be rattling as it still had no work done on it. Not even a cam chain or valve adjustment. Ran perfectly.
@@crosstrainingadventure
The RFS motor is still brilliant today. I bought my Beta 500 to replace my aging 525 but it became apparent that I liked the low-end grunt of the KTM much better and I really never jived with the horridble (yes new word) forks on that Beta. My 18 year old open-chamber WPs are head and shoulders above them. I will concede that the KYBs that come on the race edition bikes are fantastic however. Now don't get me wrong, I spent over 200 hours on the Beta as a dual-sport bike with only a Seat Concept sadle and some Acerbis handguards as the only modifications and the bike was fun. But it was like putting on a pair of track spikes for a cross country race. By comparison my 525 is like slipping on a broken-in pair of New Balance cross-trainers. 👌
i bought a 23 model ktm 690.while it weighs more than a 500,i find it to be THE UNICORN!the oil interval isnt bad either.the rear tank is kind of odd,but tons of guys beat on these things without consiquence.the tall seat height to me is the biggest draw back.otherwise..its brilliant!
Awesome bike no question, but when it comes to that sketchy bush trail do you channel chris birch energy or do a GS1250 rider and head back to the coffee shop?
Important question! 😂
nah dawg..i just send it!..lol@@atlas_au
2009 EXC530. Bigger tank, 690 screen, corbin seat, cush hub, oil cooler, tool tube, cam chain adjuster and a few other bits n pieces. AWESOME bike but very twitchy at high speeds.
I started with a KTM 500 EXC-F and bolted another $6k worth of mods and upgrades on it to build an ultralight ADV. I love it. True "do anything" bike. As long as "anything" doesn't involve extended trips on the interstate. For those types of trips, I have midsized and big bore ADV bikes.
It's a shame KTM don't have an adv version of the 500EXCF. I guess it would be competing with the 690 too much?
@@crosstrainingadventure probably. Though I've never really been able to figure out who the 690/701 is for. Everyone I know who has one complains that they are too heavy for really technical riding, but they are also still horrible on freeway rides. Really the only benefit is increased carrying capacity. Too many compromises everywhere else. More power than the 500, but where are you really using it on ADV rides? Freeway, basically. Otherwise the 500 has plenty of power. I'd rather take the full step up to an 890/901 if I was looking for a more robust "adventure" platform, than the half step to a 690/701.
I have 2 KTMs; a MY18 690R & MY22 890R. I've recently bought a MY23 Beta 390RR.
The 390Rr was bought to replace the 690R for local rides around the Vic High Country. The 890R is for longer overnight or longer trips. Hopefully the 690R gets sold and I'll get back to just 2 bikes which is my plan at the moment. I have to say though, if I could only have one bike, I'd be the 690R.
Beautiful engine in that RR390 with the long stroke, Phil. I'd love to see Beta create more of an adv model there.
I’m 74 with the usual back/leg limitations. I’m thinking of trading my BMW 1200GS for a BMW 310GS and my Husqvarna 701 for a Honda CRF 300 LS. I hate doing this but it’s either that or giving up riding all together.
I know the feeling, lighter bikes almost become mandatory the older we get. It's why I'm revisiting this topic...
In the same boat - 60 plus with new knees and rebuilt ankle. Light is right 👍
I'm glad you brought up the little CRF. I didn't want to be the fanboy who jumps into every discussion with his favourite bike, but now that you have :) ... listening to Barry's list of drawbacks I'm just going better lights, yep, load bearing subframe, yep, wide gearbox ratios, yep, windscreen and fairing, yep (Rally version), decent fuel capacity, yep, decent oil capacity, yep, on and on down the list. The Rally with new suspension is pretty much what you end up with if you fully adventurise a dual sport, albeit way down on one end of the economy and reliability vs performance tradeoff curve.
currently looking at the 300l or 300rally i think the rally looks a bit wide in the front end so may end up putting a wind screen and larger tank onto a 300l watched a lot of reviews on them and they seem like a great allrounder i dont think everyone needs or uses the power of the 500cc or 650cc bikes im just hoping the 300l has enough power to get the front wheel up over logs in 2nd or 3rd gear on the trails when needed@@jaimemetcher388
Am I the only one still rocking a TE610? What a legend of a bike. I got mine with very low miles and only use it for trail riding and light ADV work. It’s the unicorn.
Great bike, I had one! A real shame they didn't continue. Should have sold much much better than it did.
2008 TE610 with safari 6.6 gal tank, seat concepts comfort, pivot pegs & tons of mods! I love this bike! Ride it until it dies! Gonna miss it!😢
The most difficult question to answer in the universe is, "Why the heck hasn't Yamaha made a WR450R?!?"
Agreed!
I’ve got a Kove on order and will keep you posted. I hear what you’re saying about unproven Chinese bikes, but after a good deal of agonising and much research, I’ve decided it’s a risk worth taking. Early reports seem encouraging, and for my style of riding (lanes in my area of the UK plus general road use) it might work really well. Peak Motorcycles is already posting videos on his bike, including some very interesting mods that are already starting to appear.
The Kove is one of the most exciting bikes in recent times. On paper it’s basically a unicorn for dual sport adventures.
I'll be interested to see what owners are saying in two to three years time. Fortnine did a recent analysis of grit in brand new engines. Some major manufacturers had dangerously high levels due to dirty factory conditions that could lead to premature wear. They included a Chinese manufacturer that was off the charts. 😒 Time will tell with Kove. But I really hope it works out well for you!
I would be seriously looking at kove when it arrives in Australia. BUT yes very early days yet, LETS SEE. It looks the goods and very sexy. Enough to give a jellyfish a hardon I reckon
@@crosstrainingadventure that video is a year or two old now. Indian manufacturers scored well in that video as I recall - something that might not have been true 5 years ago. Things are changing fast over there. Also, uniquely among Chinese manufacturers, these guys seem to care greatly about riding bikes. Which other Chinese manufacturer has attempted Dakar - and had all their bikes finish? Which other Chinese manufacturer has a motorsports programme?
I also have a Kove, and it's been brilliant so far.
Just came back from Cape York trip. Did CREB(only bikes on the track that week) and Old Coach Rd(again, only bikes to do it recently). Plenty of highway, cruising at 120 km/h and carrying Mosko 80 litres without any issues. Wife and I have 22" Husky 501's. Nomad Rally tower, better seat, Haan cush hubs on DID STX rims, 15 litre Acerbis best bikes we've ever owned.
Sweet! How did the Nomad Rally towers go, Colin? I'm looking at something similar for the DR650...
DRZ 400 with windshield, soft luggage holders, GPS holder, extra capacity Acerbis fuel tank and that’s it. best value for (little) money (and lighter than the 650). Maintenance is low and it takes me easy to the office between 2 rides. With bigger purse: I would look at AJP, Husky 501 but mind the maintenance intervals (oil changes). I am 60…😉
For me it feels like theres not enough power on the DRZ for the highway.
I definitely recommend the 23 Beta 500 RS. It is smoother than the KTM’s I’ve owned. Close to the ‘15 KTM, but miles smoother than the 17+’s I’ve owned. Similar to the CRF 450L, which is also a good option (and I also owned a 2019). I’d buy the Beta or CRF again in a heartbeat. Probably the CRF if I was doing a long-term ADV build, but I’d be happy with either.
I looked seriously at a beta for my next adventure build. 390/480. As I already have a really well sorted adventure build ktm 525 i chose a different path. I bought a low mileage swm rs650r. The beta platform ticks a lot of boxes for light weight,good. suspension out of the box,great motor and gearbox. I think the 390 would be my pick.
I have a '22 390RR-S, but I'm nervous about putting saddlebags on it given the plastic subframe. But I used to have some on it. It took a pretty big hit fine (I was standing, it made me jump and left my feet sore, inertia of saddlebags+rack+several tail bags didn't damage the subframe), did fine for motocamping for a few days until the battery died. Decided I wanted to keep it light for enduro riding though.
I'm adventurizing my WR250R with a 4.7 gallon tank. Even though it's a slow, small bore heavy pig, it's still fun to rev out. Tires last a long time, enough power on the street IF staying below 65mph. The big tank gets rid of the stupid annoying fairings that always break, as a bonus. But I'll probably need to start carrying some sort of plastic cement for tank punctures.
At 64 now I have had many bikes. I’m currently riding a 23 701 with all the good stuff. It hauls ass and is relatively light as an adventure bike. Can get a little uncomfortable on long-haul’s to and from riding areas, butt is tolerable. i’ve ridden a Yamaha Tenre, the Aprilia Toureg ,and the Honda Africa, twin. Truthfully, I would, rather have one of the bigger, more comfortable bikes, but there are very difficult to pick up when I’m out riding by myself. The 701 seems like the best compromise for where I’m at right now.
I did a DRZ400 with a big bore kit, Wr250R is not bad but I think my next will be the CRF450L with bigger tank- its downfall is the oil capacity.
How come no love is given to the honda 650l ?? Dr650's are always mentioned but the honda gets left out and i love my 650l soo much 😢
I don't think there are a lot of countries where you can buy the XR650L anymore. Mainly the USA?
Balancing the wheels made a huge difference on my Beta 350 RR-S. Seat Concepts comfort seat, IMS 3.5 Gallon tank, and a rear rack. I've got the Giant Loop Moto Coyote bag, so I'm ready to go. We also plan our trips with a minimum of pavement.
Good point on balancing the wheels... I still haven't done this properly on my DR650 and it tends to bounce a bit at highway speeds.
I have a hybrid trials Tubliss rear tire on my 390, front wheel is balanced but rear isn't. The shaking over 40mph on the road is just crazy. Unrideable on pavement.
just put a second rim lock opposite the existing one and you never have to balance you're wheels again@@crosstrainingadventure
On my DRZ balancing the weels was a night and day difference. A lot of vibrations also come from bad weel balance.
If we look back at older models, i'd say DR350SE with an acerbis tank from an XR400 + Fisher wide seat + luggage racks and so on. A Yamaha TT600 Belgarda with bigger tank and windsreen. XR650L with similar mods.
There were quite a few models back then that kinda worked better as lightweight adventure bikes.
I've recently bought one and took it to Romania for some dual sport riding.. Awesome bike! The trick is that being an oil cooled bike it have it weight down low. Great bike !
Cool, hope on getting one someday, what's the fuel consumption, and how fast you can go highway speeds? @@kopaczp
@@andrisjakubovs5297 Fuel cons is around 3,5-3,8 liters/100 KM. It is cruising best at 80-90 but on one day I was in a rush and checked it on a highway - you can sit on 100 km/h all day. Top speed is about 140-145 km/h on stock gearing.
@@kopaczp Thanks for the info! That's just what i'm looking for in a bike these days when fuel is becoming expensive - a bike light enough to pick up by myself, electric start, 1 cylinder, easy to maintain, consumption less than 4 liters per 100 km, with a cruising speed 90-100, with the ability to run 120-140 km/h to bypass someone.
Mate I am SO surprised at the Honda CRF 300 Rally , especially for us older riders that want lighter and not to concerned about power .
Positives
1. Six speed box - 6 gear is like an overdrive
2. 1.8 lt oil Capacity
3. Decent tank range ( around 300 )
4. Good 👍 screen with GPS / phone mount .
Negatives
1. Power only around 25HP
2. Suspension needs improvement ( if you are anything other than a beginner )
Mods to improve
1. Suspension mods from cheap 800 to over 3000 dollars
2. EUC update - SSS motorcycles
3. Full aftermarket pipe
4. Rear rack
5. All the other stuff 😂😂😂. A fantastic all rounder, and will sit on the road at 110 Kph all day long .
Amazing bike ( coming from someone that’s owned larger Enduro bikes .
Good summary. Fingers crossed Honda might do the same for a 400 or 450 and keep the price down too. The CRF450L was a start but too expensive... at least in Australia.
@@crosstrainingadventure , one ☝️ of my good mates I ride with brought the 450 L , fantastic “ powerful bike “ with the mods to sort out the fuelling it pretty good , BUT let down my small oil capacity and high maintenance.
I'm thinking about adventurising a XR 650 R. It has 2.1 liters of oil, changing oil is reasonable about every 2500km, it got a little wider ratio gearbox and a not as buzzy engine as most Enduro models. On the other hand it's about 25kg heavier, than most modern Enduro bikes and it's kickstart only without a battery even. But with a bigger stator, harder springs, some suspension work, a nice carburetor and a big tank it should be ready to go about anywhere. Next year I want to go to the Balkans and do a Offroad tour with some friends and I think the xr650r would be perfect. Maybe a xr600 or a XR 650 l as well, but I would love to have that extra Performance on hand, because as a motocross racer, I like to go fast Offroad😁. But I would be interested in a husaberg 570 as well... Sounds like a fucking awesome bike tbh
2500 km isn't reasonable. 10k is reasonable, 15k is better.
@@biomorphic for that bike 2500km is reasonable. But there is no bike in the world with 130kg dry, 60hp, serious offroad suspension good reliability, comfort and 10-15k oil change interval. Chose a few of these and deal with the rest
@@janniksims5740there is one, but you need to sell a kidney to buy it: GASGAS RX 450F.
Such a great bike in the day, I'd love to see Honda bring it back as a lightweight adv bike with e-start etc.
Husky 701/ ktm690 has a factory 10k oil change interval. Tons of power. 145kg dry. Very good suspension. A few minor compromises but it's the modern version of the xr600 l reckon. @@janniksims5740
Interesting thoughts on the beta. I own a beta 390 with the view of light adventures ride plus some enduro.bguvenbthe longer bore and lug ability, thought it was an ok compromise. The twin oil chambers is an odd one
Anyone have modifications for depression? Have several bikes, can't bother to spend any time on them.
For solo, I don't think you can beat the 600c range. My 701e is a compromise of a 350s and a 890r as far as on/off-road manners. The 701 has a significantly larger maintenance interval than the 350, important if you're gonna do long trips. It can go highway speeds without being totally wound out like the 350. It weighs ~100lbs less than the 890r. First gear is a little tall for single track imo. There's ways around that though. I just run UHD Tubes as I haven't moved them to tubliss (on the 350s). I also replaced good amount on it so I'm probably biased.
Green Chile in the US makes a good low weight strap system for dual sport luggage.
great bike agreed, perhaps you might struggle to pick it up alone???
@@nickg2431 Possibly. It is ~340lbs. and the 701 has a pretty tall seat. Im 6'4" so thankfully i haven't had a problem with either. But i have toyed with the idea of lowering it another .5 - 1 inch so I can flat foot. I think it makes a huge difference.
@@ZeLogicnator5k yes i understand,im 6ft 2 104kg and dropped the forks slightly/lowered pegs/slightly softer rear pre-load than usual.There are 2 main benefits
1/flat foot esp on slopes
2/dont feel like a turret on a ship instead more "integrated into bike
Dual engine maps on newer bikes might help dull them a bit for road riding.
Sadly, on a drz, I don't have that problem 😁
Dr 350 im going to get the big more head ans make it 440 1991
Think these are round the world machines
And seen it do well on a motocross track by my dad . Id just stiffen springs as ive prodomitly rode motocross
Bore
Bought a Kove 450, reviews coming this fall
I have a 99 XR600, everything else is inferior, unless there is too much blacktop.
Drz 400 with the wide ratio aftermarket gears and a big bore. Not too stressful on the bike and it will float down the highway at 75 mph.
i converted a xr 600. It's got a kickstart and is way lighter than the early Dommies.
So a drz400. Got it.
We would have to if KTM built the 490. Anyway, check out my adv build on my DRZ400. Just finished up a final version of my one off adventure/rallu fairing for it. Just a tick over 53,000 miles and runs flawlessly. Full suspension set up for heavy loads. 39mm FCR, hot cams, full Yosh RS2 exhaust. Evey mod under the sun other than internal engine parts but the cams. Full mosko moto set up. Cruises at 80 MPH all day long on a road trip across many states or gear it down for a BDR run. Zero compaints. She has been the best bike i have owned in 35 yrs of riding all kins of bikes.
It's strange that Suzuki doesn't make a special version of the DRZ like this and cash in...
Yup just back from Cape York from Brisbane (close to 8k km's) on my 2010 fe570 the bike was sensational I think I'm just going to keep it going for as long as I can! It honestly made the trip fun even the long transport stages it never seems to run out of breath the engine is your best friend! Some people don't like the induction noise for me that's the character of the machine.
I have Two KTM 500's I may convert the 22 model into a light adventure bike eventually to replace the Berg but I doubt it could be anymore fun then the Big Berg 💪
Such a great bike! I did an eight day NSW QLD loop almost all offroad on mine loaded up with camping gear. I'd love to see AJP or SWM buy the rights to it and resurrect the beast...
No mention of the Honda 450? Many of the drawbacks you mention I would agree with on the Honda. I purchased the bike a few years ago for $10K US and put in another $3.5k to get it a new ECU, tires, windshield, back rack, custom seat, ims 11.7 liter larger tank, risers for the bars, guards for the hands, and the list goes on. I can ride on the xpress way at 110 km/ph but its very buzzy especially with my DOT dirt tires. I hate the thought of riding 1.5 hours to get to the mountains. So what is my solution in a bike? I want to have plenty of power for the rough terrain, and yet light so when I need to pick it up I can with fully loaded bags and gas tank.
Not sure about other countries, but there was massive disappointment here in Australia with the CRF450L. Tiny oil capacity, tiny tank. And really expensive. 😢
There’s 14 and 20l tanks avail from nomad tanks in aus. If not racing or super hard enduro you can stretch the oil interval to 3000km no prob
Converted my 99 dirt model DR350 to an ultralight adv/ dual sport bike. Converted it to DC power, LED lighting including off-road lights, higher bars, lower pegs, better seat, Tusk Traverse soft luggage and a Tusk tank bag, larger IMS tank, and full custom race tech suspension rebuild.
😎👍
A worthwhile project. I love to read this stuff. What a lot of fun you would have had sourcing, installing and modifying to build your bike. Enjoy your new ride brother cause your a long-time dead and riding is the best fun you can have with your pants on
What about Honda XR600, XR400, XR250, Yamaha TTR, TTS600? I can't regret enough selling my 1994. XR600R, it is almost impossible to get another one in Serbia. Superlight considering it is 30 year old, 600 ccm thumper. Or making 701 or 690 light as possible?
Definitely lots of old models that would suit, I was just confining this vid to currently available bikes for the most part.
Still riding my '99 XR400. Sure, I'd love a nice fuel injected bike with a magic button, a wide ratio 6 speed, 275lb-ish RTR weight, better suspension, durability, preferably a few years old and lightly used for less than $4k. Show me the bike and I'll think about upgrading. Until then, I'll just work on my skillz and keep kicking the old XR... :)
Fond memories of mine. What a wheelie beast. ua-cam.com/video/wUqHIiiLa5U/v-deo.html
I've actually discovered something, that the manufacturers are listening.
Fantic 450 (red wr450f) maintenance intervals are 2000 km. As in the manual.
Ajp spr510 manual, maintenance intervals are 3000 km.
This is actually reasonable.
My dr200, has 3000 km intervals.
The honda crf450rl for comparison, has 1000 km.
Ktm 500 exc, has 750 km intervals.
Beta 480, has 30 hours, I don't know how it compares to the others.
Scherco 500 has 20 hours.
So, the manufacturers that selling trail bikes, not professional race bikes, has given a reasonable intervals. For road/trail uses...
I'll be happy to hear your opinion...
Thanks
P.s. the Chinese way of doing business, is very wrong. are they paying honda for copies of the cb500x frame and engines?are they paying kawasaki for using the versys engine? and so on and on..
So it's cheap for a reason... As A manufacturer myself,I'll say 👎.
cant suport it...
Some owners pay for an oil analysis which usually shows you can stretch oil change intervals for easy dual sport riding... especially for those enduro bike with more than 1.5L oil capacity. But the manufacturers almost always assume you are racing or riding aggressively so they provide short intervals.
Yes, I think many Chinese manufaturers are stealing designs. I spoke with a patents lawyer who said it is very difficult and expensive to try and fight this. 😢
Every bike is a compromise! I converted my 2018 WR250R into a pretty effective ultralight adventure bike. But it still sucks on the highway and the gearbox ratios are too high (thus the WR designation). Change the front or rear sprocket and you just killed any chance of "comfortable" highway riding. I might suggest welding a big motorcycle carrying rack to the subframe of an R1250GS, then slap that 510 onto the back. See, now you can ride in comfort to the trails and unload that dual sport for the technical stuff.......
😎👍
Sounds like you're going to build a crf300 rally
I chose the 2013 Husqvarna TR650. Fitted a set of YZ450 forks and will eventually fit a Hyper Pro rear shock. I'm very impressed with this bike, the 500 KTM barely gets ridden as the TR is so dam smooth to ride and excellent on and off road. Simple, cheap and low maintenance.😊
Have reached these DIY paths towards lightweight ADV Rally or Enduro-Dual Sport:
1. Mod the holy grail of Dual Sports DRZ400 / DR650. Welterweight cut , use parts from RM-Z lighter wheels spring clutch brakes. ARX-Adventure Rally X tower, protape bar ends seat concept lithium, new lightweight FMF system airbox ecu.
1.2 Shredded CRF250L with parts from HRC CRF-models (Baja Dakar RedMoto) yoshi protape ecu. Riders have installed e.g.CB500X/ CB500R into a CRF500L/Rally. Could WR250R's chassis hold up with installation of a 500/600cc thumper from Yami...
1.3 Rebuild a 690/701 Enduro inspired by MotoGeo @Max Hazan KTM 950 SM with an amazing weight loss of 150lb/ 68 kg.
2 Rebuild Honda CRF450L/RL inspired by John T Young into CRF450L baby Africa Twin or rebuild a new XR650L into an ADV Rally or Enduro Sports with CRF parts, Enduro LED tower, cut weight by replacing old heavy parts with modern-tech and so forth.
2.1 T4 or Fantic XEF450 Rally build by Manuel Lucchese.
Cross Training Adventure should reach out to e.g Suzuki Australia ´n´be sponsored with parts/donor bike for a pioneering build series.
I probably should have approached Suzuki Australia with that idea a few years ago! I just don't have the motivation now unfortunately. That 68kg weight loss for the 950 sounds incredible! Seems hard to believe they got it lighter than a DRZ400....
What the F are octopus straps and for the love of god please show me how you strapped those bags to that bike!
CRF300L problem solved
What is the best alternative to the unicorn until it’ll descend from the adventure heavens?
Tall guy, 50:50 on:off, simple over fancy
I sold the 990advR and TT600R for different reasons but both had something special.
Is it still the DR650?
Impossible to say as there are so many factors involved specific to each rider. Maybe see our 'best lightweight adventure bikes' vid for the options?
What about scramblers? They seem like a nice compromise. Some of them are "lightweight" like Fantic Caballero 500 🤷♂️
I'm torn between Caballero and CRF300...
They look interesting but they are up close to a DR650 in weight so a lot heavier than a big bore enduro bike. Scramblers are definitely worth a look though...
I run a 2019 RS500R ORIGINALLY USED FOR ENDURO riding and lots of single track, agree with most points above, fuel pump replacement kemso units for ktms work fine amd ext golan filter is a must have. I dont run a cush drive hub but my Bro does same bike. However brg carrier is poor and must carry spare brgs for long range trips, but not uncommon. Mapping and dyno work is a must do, sames.for 12 port injector. I dont do a lot.of road work as avoid at all costs, still ots no issue for me but use grip puppies! 9.2K on the bike now, biggest failure was clutch plates from all the single track work, basket is ali so not as good as ktms etc. But an 800 dollar cost so meh, failed at 4.5K silvery oil... Esjot front sprockets are the go to remove countershaft spline wear, bros bike did 14K and shaft was poor cond. But we used to run a diff sprocket, supllplied by importer, annoying much, which in hindsight had the wrong spline profile and clearances. Bro Rebuilt motor just for fun, pistons etc were all in spec sames for brgs. He was on original clutch etc. And all could have gone for another 10K plus. Replace clutch slave with an oberon unit and replace clutch fluid regularly, 10w hyd oil. Starter yep replace as previously mentioned. I run nemunu bags and some 3K trips offroad twin track n single and a few stacks they are awesome, water proof and cheap but good quality. Hard to say if i would do this again or go the ktm 500 fe501 as simply easier to source aftermarket bits. Bike is super stable and at hi speed sand etc so no strg dampner reqd. Unlike ktms etc. There are some in the usa who dual sport with 30K miles on original piston etc. So yeah i wont run a cush hub. I see no need for it, dont lug the engine on road though in lower gears... also waterproof electrical connectors and insulate harness in a few spots for less chance of issues from hi speed vibes n corrogated roads.
Thanks for the info, Brad. How do those sprockets minimise shaft wear? Is it by the 'exact fit' so there's no movement? www.esjot.com/en/motorcycle-sprockets/
I remember on my old FE570 a mechanical friend just drilled some hole and made up a bracket that held the front sprocket so tightly it didn't slop around anymore... seemed to do the trick.
@crosstrainingadventure yes, correct fit. Tiny bit of work with flapper wheel on the inside id of sprockets or tap on with lube, also getting more kms out of these sprockets. Happy days
Kove 450 rally is the answer. That engine has been around for a long time now and proven reliable. The weight is misleading, it rides like an enduro bike off road and is super light feeling.
Do you mind me asking you if you have a relationship with GPX? I know GPX pays Megs Braap and Tyler at Everide although they haven't declared them as 'ambassadors' or paid social media influencers on the GPX website. Megs and Tyler have both publicly acknowledged the financial relationship though.
Just get a receiver hitch carrier or small trailer for your truck and get your enduro to the trail that way if the paved road distance is too long. When you get to the dirt you will be able to carry all kinds of useful stuff in your truck and be able to get your bike back home if it craps out.
I've even done that with the DR650 occasionally! But it's also because I get fed up with idiot car driver trying to kill me when I ride through town to get to all the dirt roads.
Just purchased a new Sherco 500 today and will be adding the Safari 15L tank. Change the front sprocket up 1 tooth. Once the oem tires are dead, might try the Motoz RallZ rear and maybe a fatty maxxis front with Tubliss and balanced. Adventure Spec make nice wind shields which are small and light. On the fence with respect to a cush drive rear hub though.
Why on the fence about the cush drive? Countershafts aren't cheap to replace.... but you could probably buy a few of them for a thousand dollar cush drive wheel if you did the work yourself
Quick note, in the long term it's good to avoid low revs. On our recent outback tour the mechanic for the Sherco 500SEF fleet said the piston skirt is very short and during rebuilds he could see upper and lower wear of the skirt from the engines being lugged. I'd suggest a cush drive hub is a good investment in the long term. Sell it separately when you sell the bike and you'll get most of your money back. Here's an article I wrote:
www.advrider.com/f/threads/supermoto-riders-should-i-put-a-cush-drive-hub-on-my-motarded-enduro-bike.1188789/
@@atlas_au Good point - cush drive it is
you know its the way…or you could do a video of “manufacturers adventurising road bikes” which is the case really
Yes we did a vid covering that recently
That’s why I still stick to my 640 Adventure after 5 years, having owned ATRD07 and KTM950 prior to this one.
Cool! I have the 625 wiith big tank. I cant part with it.
Nothing better than a lighter bike, I have done KTM 690 twice, 2016 exc 500 with a Yenkro fairing, Cush drive blah blah blah, oil changes suck while travelling, 1500-1800k between service, the 2013-2016 had 1.5l capacity. Back to the 690 platform again just bought a GasGas 700, it won’t be perfect, but I have fun trying, and that’s the most important part, have fun with motorcycling.
I balk the ridiculous price of a 500EXCF in Australia. But I'm interested in the oil capacity... 1.5L is better than most, and you can get it to at least 2L with an oil cooler and larger clutch cover.
@@crosstrainingadventure Be sure to try a new 500 EXC before buying for a dual sport/adventure conversion. The vibration coming through the seat on my buddy's 23 is very very high. My other buddy's older 500 EXC is fine, vibrates a little more than my 450L which vibrates a little more than another buddy's DRZ.
DRZ400, problem solved.
lol just buy a DR350
Not selling mine!
We are on xr650r and they are also fantastic. Mine weighs in at 155kgs with 24 liters of fuel.
Electric start ?
@@heinschwartz7941 no kick. But C fab make a kit that is supossed to be Good.
My latest adventure bike build is a 2015 swm rs650r same as 2011husky te630. It has 25 litre safari tank, seat concept compfy seat, b&b bashplate. 550km range, 1800 ml oil capacity, 5000km oil changes, returns a respectable 22kms per litre. Cons are subframe is alloy and needs to be braced up, no cush drive but working on it. On the good side, it weighs 148 kgs thats with a full 25 litres of fuel, 5&6 gears are overdrives, great on the open dirt roads. At 62 years old i got no interest in beating my self up on single track
I almost bought one of these back around 2015, Terry. I loved my old TE610 in the day. A shame they didn't really continue...
Simple....
Change to the "Younger" model of the DR650.
Let's go and pick a DRZ 400. 😊
Yep . My steed is the SWM RS 500. Had it since new from 2016. Safari tank, pivot pegs The front screen off the super dual. Steering damper. Rekluse clutch ( now removed) not practical for application. EFI tuner. Low amperage LED lights. Cush drive hub from super dual. Bike gearing 13/47 for track's, 14/47 for dirt roads and 15/47 for the tar.
How do you find the narrow range gearbox? Some guys dislike it, others don't seem to notice it for dual sport riding...
@@crosstrainingadventure I find it tolerable because I hate the tar.. if I have trip I just put the 15 on the front. Takes about 15 minutes to change in the track. This bike has proven to be an absolute weapon when compared to what else is out there. It will take the fight to almost any new bike today 15000 klms and not touched valves and have only just changed my first fork seals. I squeezed 1.9 lts of 20/50 wt Penrite and don't change it until it feels too thin when cold. That's when it's fu&_ked. I wish I could attach a pic. Bike gives me a chubby
Sounds like a great run so far 😎
I needed to do a heap of repairs to my ktm 450 exc. It's an older model with the stronger engine than they make now, and so I decided to do an adventure conversion with a bigger tank, bash plate, rally tower/screen where I can mount my gps and other electronics. Then I slapped some Motoz tyres on it, and I find I ride it way more now than I ever did before. I have taken it on a few longer trips, including 5 days through the south west WA and she never skipped a beat. It does take more maintenance than a twin, but that just gives me something good to do on weeknights to be honest. Personally, I probably wouldn't buy anything bigger than a 690 for where I live, and I guess the only twin I'd consider is an 890 adventure (maybe a T7), because we get a lot of deep soft sand on our trails, and riding anything bigger than an enduro is basically impossible for more than an hour or 2 if you're an average rider. I guess your unicorn will really be decided by what kint of riding you want to do.
100% agree... the unicorn will really be decided by what kint of riding you want to do. I'm always surprised when someone insists a WR250R or DRZ400 or Husky 701 will be the perfect bike for everyone. It never can be, we are all chasing different things.
Just bought a 23 Husq 701 and will be transitioning to the 701 from my 890R over the next year or so. Right now the 701 is my ADV unicorn. Adventurized a 500 ECX-F about two years ago - didn't work out for me at the time. Likely in another 5-10 years will be moving from the 701 to the 500.
That 650 to 700 range hits the mark for many.
So what you're telling me is my xTrainer will be a brilliant adventure bike?
Yes! Or a Honda Grom. 😎👍
If only Honda re-released the XR650R with a wide ratio transmission and a 12v lighting system... E-start would be nice but I can take or leave it.
WHERE YOU USE THE TUBLISS SYSTEM ON THE REAR WHEEL OR THE FRONT WHEEL OR ON BOTH WHEELS.
Both.
I still ride my vanilla BMW f800gs everywhere. Just not fast. Only mod besides bark busters, b & b aluminium bash plate, 7.2L fuel under slung fuel tank is Nelson rigg luggage. Wind noise, yeh. Heavy, yeh. Fun, yeh.
I think Husaberg Fe 650 would be better than Fe 570
Great power but the reliability was a constant problem. Many felt they'd just gone a bit too far with trimming the weight down. Some Husaberg owners said the final two year models were starting to be more reliable but then they canned it. 😢 The 570 was essentially a KTM engine and way more reliable.
Do you really need a cush drive hub?
If you get those gnarly 520 chain made for people who want to save weight on sport bike, I hardly believe it couldn't handle it.
But the result is a cheaper and lighter setup
Here's the write up I did on cush drive hub years ago... grab the popcorn lol.
Lots of debate on this one, including guys who are using enduro bikes for dual sport or adventure riding. I'd be keen to hear opinions especially from bike mechanics with experience in this area. I've broken this down into categories that hopefully make sense.
THE DEBATE
Dirt bikes typically don't have a cush drive hub in the rear wheel. Road bikes typically do.... road/adventure riding places more stress on a gearbox, sprockets, chain and rear tire, because the rear tire normally slips a little in dirt with each combustion stroke (hence that little rooster tail under acceleration) and there is also the flex of knobby tires - both these effects act like a cush drive hub.
Guys who put motard wheels on their dirt bikes often debate whether a cush drive hub is needed. Some say there's a high risk of eventually killing your gearbox.... other riders say this is bullshit.
SHOULD MY MOTARD OR ADVENTURE CONVERSION INCLUDE A CUSH DRIVE HUB?
My very tentative conclusion? There is probably less need to fit a cush drive hub if:
- your bike is under 600cc
- you don't plan on clocking too many miles on the road
- your bike has a solid gearbox with no known issues
- you don't lug the engine at low revs.
The reasoning? Almost every dirt bike over 600cc has a cush drive hub, which strongly suggests the manufacturers think they are needed on the big thumpers (there is the occasional exception like the Husaberg FE650 and the Honda XR650).
Almost every road bike in existence has a cush drive hub, strongly suggesting that manufacturers think they are needed for doing a lot of road mileage - or at the very least they are worthwhile due to the smoother transmission of power to the ground.
If your bike has a light weight gearbox, or any known issues, then a cush drive hub probably isn't a bad idea to minimize possible problems. For example, some guys fit cheap supermoto wheels without a cush drive hub to the Suzuki DR650 - given the known issues with third gear occasionally self-destructing I would always go the cush drive hub. And rightly or wrongly, the Yamaha WR450F has gained a reputation for a weak gearbox so I'd probably slap a cush drive hub on those.
I have no evidence to back this up, but to me logic would suggest a cush drive hub would not be needed for a two stroke. The engine is firing twice as often and I suspect creating a small power pulse through the transmission on the combustion stroke. But what the hell would I know? Any mechanics or astrophysicists care to chime in? :)
COUNTERSHAFT SPLINES & HUSABERG/KTM FOUR STROKES
The old Husaberg FE570 was an awesome bike but quite a few people who have used them for adventure riding found they prematurely wore the splines of the countershaft. I have heard of similar cases with KTMs like the 500EXC and 450EXC - not surprising with the Husabergs were mostly the same engine. Do your own research on this, but I think this is a very good argument for using a cush drive hub on KTM four strokes if you plan on a fair bit of adventure riding or road use.
WHAT IS A CUSH DRIVE HUB?
So how does it work? A cush drive hub lessens the impact of a single cylinder's combustion stroke on your transmission, drive chain and rear tyre, but if you are riding in the upper rev range then you won't notice any effect. The rear hub is also usually heavier with a cush drive hub, which slightly increases unsprung weight and makes the rear wheel a bit more likely to go wider when backing it in in racing.
The benefits of a cush drive hub appear more as you operate in the lower rev ranges. For example, the smoother ride is noticeable at around 3000rpm to 5000rpm, but most noticeable in slow or stop-start traffic. So if you tend to do quite a bit of easy riding or commuting, you'll have a much more enjoyable ride with a cush drive hub.
It is unlikely that your gearbox is going to break down simply because you are using a fixed rear hub for occasional bitumen riding. Gearboxes on dual purpose bikes are over-engineered to last so you can probably ride on roads without a cush drive hub for years without problems, particularly with trail bikes that have heavy beefed up gearboxes (e.g. DRZ400, KLR650, DR650), but is probably worth considering more with performance bikes like the KTM and WR450F with light weight gearboxes. As dedicated dirt bikes, the priority on minimizing weight means those higher gears may not be so beefed up for extended road riding.
HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE DOES A CUSH DRIVE HUB MAKE?
For a single cylinder four stroke dirt bike, there's a big difference in everyday riding. Personally I found it just feels smoother, there's less chain snatch, and you really notice the difference when the revs are low... much less so in the higher revs. This makes a difference to your useable rev range on your bike, meaning a lot less gear changes in normal road riding. It can be likened to the difference between riding a single cylinder road bike compared to a twin cylinder. However, if you ride hard or race then this will make no difference. But for everyday riding, each combustion stroke of the piston is dampened. I figure the advantages would be:
- extended life of sprockets and chains
- reduced wear on the gear box and other moving parts
- smoother ride whether accelearating or deccelerating
- less wear of countershaft splines (important on certain bikes)
- longer rear tyre life.
HOW DOES A CUSH DRIVE HUB WORK?
A cush drive is a part of a motorcycle drive-train that is designed to reduce stress from engine torque damaging other components during gear or throttle changes. A common design is made of three major pieces: the wheel, the sprocket assembly or 'sprocket drive', and the rubber damper.
The wheel and the sprocket assembly fit together with five sections much like two hands woven together. In between the contact of the two assembly are rubber blocks. These cush drive rubbers are usually triangular in shape, have a hard compound and may be air-filled. This makes it so the wheel and the sprocket have a dampening layer between them, and the rubber blocks reduce wear, stress fractures and fatigue of the metal assemblies. This is most noticeable with single cylinder motorbikes used on paved roads at slow to moderate speeds, where in effect the power and engine braking is delivered in a series of punches through the transmission, chain, sprockets and rear wheel.
When the rubber damper becomes old and hardens, or wears out, the changes in load on the drive chain instigated by changes in throttle position or changing gear can cause snatchiness in the power delivery. Loads particularly on the drive chain can be massively increased in these conditions, increasing the risk of breakage or of contact with the swinging arm resulting in damage. Perhaps more pointedly the sudden transfer of force to the rear tyre can cause momentary loss of traction (lock or spin) resulting in small changes of direction or at worst total loss of control.
WHAT ABOUT THESE 'CUSH SPROCKETS'?
There are attempts to create a rear sprocket with a built in cush drive. This sounds great as there would be little increase in weight and just a simple bolt-on mod. Keep in mind these can't be as effective as a proper cush drive hub - the design parameters simply won't allow a 'cush sprocket' to rotate and absorb impacts the way a dedicated cush drive hub will. However, reports from guys who use these indicate they still do make a difference which is encouraging, and it would seem they could be considered half way to a proper cush drive hub?
The problems are getting them to work properly, and for a decent period of time. Ryan at www.kushsprockets.com has many issues with his design and sadly passed away. Check this thread, another guy has taken it over and hoping to sort out the issues. If it works it will be much cheaper than the one below.
A more recent product is Cush Drive Sprockets from New Zealand. This got off to a very shaky start with the manufacturer slamming into some guys for doubting his very ambitious claims for the sprocket... and then he said he wasn't the manufacturer but eventually admitted he was. It's a very heavy sprocket, and some independent tests suggest the cushioning bits could last up to 3000km but they could be expensive to replace. Might be worth trying if you just do a few road miles to your tracks, but for any serious distance on paved roads I'd go the proper cush drive hub.
@@crosstrainingadventure Wow, thank you very much for taking the time to explain all of this. I hope you already had most of it on your computer and you just copied and pasted it.
I think you made a video about cush drive hub a while ago. I just have forgotten about the spline/transmission wear since I never had any of those problem on my bike and I never had a cush drive hub, so the subject isn't relatable to me
Out of the bikes you listed in the beginning of the video, I strongly suggest trying an XR650R. Specifically they R not the L
Just got a rally converted 2020 ktm 690 to do a big, 3 day off road event.... I'll report back... I'm use to 450s.... 690 is bloody heavy in comparison.... later in the year I'm going to swap it with a Husaberg FE450 or 570.
Let us know how it goes. I know what you mean about the weight. The FE570 is a great platform! I'd definitely get a cush drive hub. Also check the countershaft splines. The KTM engines back then were prone to wear. I fitted a cush drive hub to mine and also a kind of bracket that held the front sprocket tightly and minimised movement on the shaft.
Ive just built an Fe450 rally with 20lts total and its an awesome thing. The Bergs last forever as well
One down side of most of the Enduro bikes is the mpg or kpl my friend was getting 45mpg on his 450rl. while I was getting 60mpg on my 690, same terrain same variable speed
That's wild! I would have expected the 690 to get worse fuel economy than the smaller bikes. I usually average around 50 on my FE501S and 530 EXC.
Otoh. My get ECU 450RL got almost exactly the same mpg as my friends husq 701. 45 or so on the Idaho bdr
Two bikes, that’s what it takes. No matter what you do to an enduro it’ll never be comfortable on the road over time, and a road bike will never go where an enduro will go. Never ending compromise that only keeps us buying farkles.
What is wrong with separating the oil engine the way Beta does?
For an adventure conversion? Just added complexity if you are on a multi-day ride in remote areas.
Great video Baz,
I find changing to a taller gearing helps solve a lot of the issues when adventurizing a big bore trail bike. It removes any snatchy throttle at low speeds, decreases revs on transport sections and improves fuel range. 15/48 for a KTM500 is my sweet spot.
Yep, Im loving 15/50 on my Berg 450 "Rally"!
I ran something ridiculous on my FE570... might have been 15/43 or something like that? I wouldn't change into top gear until 100kmh lol. She just burbled along nicely...
@@crosstrainingadventure Haha... 570 POWER!
Agreed. I did the same.
When I was younger my only mode of transport was a DRZ400 didn't do too much to make it more Road friendly but having to ride a dirt bike for long distances on roads is absolutely terrible a bigger tank a comfy seat windscreen and different gearing helps but it is far from great and I don't think you could ever get it to be good you just can't have both
I run a 07 WR450f with a Cush drive. You mentioned an oil cooler, did you make it or buy it? I've been wanting to do that for a few years now so I can get longer service life out of it. Great bike though.
www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/915317-extra-oil-capacity-oil-cooler-wr450f/
I think you are going to be In the same spot, for the most part once you place a long range tank on a bike it’s just a question of geometry and suspension. Starting with a lighter bike, and lets face it they’re not hugely lighter. The DR would be fine, a practical amount of predictable power and most of all, reliability
A lot of compromises all round, that's for sure.
You gotta like them afterburners on that Dr to stomp that husky Barry 😅
It has caused the odd forest fire though, Mark 😢
@@crosstrainingadventure true that may be the method they're using to start all of these forest fires ..wouldn't want to contribute to an already bad situation
Would a TE510 have the short skirts like you were talking about ?
Not sure, but if you compare the bore and stroke measurements to similar enduro models that would probably indicate yes or no.
Lighweight is the way to go with bigger tank. KTM 500 or Husky 501 have wide range gearing and lots of smooth torque. So instead of 13/50 they can handle easily 14/48 on any difficult terrain. So for adventure 14/45 would allow good cruising at 100 kmh, no windshield required at that speed. Too much vibes on the grips on road on 2017+ models (not 2012-2016) so the KTM dampened handlebar mounts are a good solution. I have done adventures up to 5000 km and just arranged to be able to do an oil change every 30 engine hours, which is fine, unless the engine runs very hot/hard like long streches of mud/ deep sand. I always take a small backpack, and found out that 8kg including water disturbs little on the back and more on the bike where I carry only small or light items. I never take mirrors. Do you do so because of the cops, or because they are really useful? I put once a left mirror, and used used it only to check if my mates follow.
It took years, but I finally rode a 500EXCF a few weeks ago and was impressed with the spread of gear ratios... a big jump to sixth which is great for allowing a mix of dirt and adventure-style riding. I remember years ago when KTM first introduced a sixth gear on the two strokes and it was barely any different to fifth. We all thought why did you even bother putting it in? 😂
I remember weight distribution was important on the FE570. I used dry bags and strapped them with the heavy stuff just behind my legs to try and centralise the weight. It makes a big difference!
@@crosstrainingadventure For some aspects I miss my 2012 500 KTM. It ran smoother, it already had the reinforced and damped clutch basket. The 501 makes clutch service even easier. My 501 has this long jump to six but I would not swear the spread from 1 to 6 is bigger although sufficient. Isn't it in 2005 already KTM changed the spread of the 6 speed gearbox, after having had a close ratio 6 like Husqvarna? Forgot. The rear suspension of the 501 is better than the PDS of KTM. Very good do-it-all tool.
Personally i find the Enduro converted bikes too light and therefore tiring. A decent sized screen fairing and a bit heavier seemed to do the trick for me. Our group have a mix of bikes...big adventures are definitely too heavy and impractical only good for touring not adventure excluding the Chris Birches and Adam Rieman's whom the manufacturers use to sell expensive bikes to people that can't ride them but i digresss...after a day of of fast hard riding gravel roads, sand, rocky roads, river crossings and tar (500 km's give or take) the 640/690 bikes seem to perform best for me ... ultimately the type of riding and terrain should dictate your choice of bike....
I have a question for you. The 640. I think it was a great looking platform. But I have heard they vibrate pretty bad and the oil changes need some sort of mechanical engineering degree to complete. Is this nonsense?
@@WhatTimeIsIt369 they do vibrate but not unridable the bike is at its best ridden off road single track to long distances gravel. The more aggressive you are the more rewarding it is. I would not recommend it if you want to travel long distances on tar (100km tar max for me) It's all mechanical so hopefully I can fix it if it breaks down far from home. Oil changes are easy enough and intervals long enough. It's a tank of a bike and very capable. Fuel range is around 400km's. Make sure all bolts are tightened properly...use loctite ...lol.
@@jacklee7505 Thank you for your reply. Ya there was one for sale in my area that was in pristine condition. As in almost new condition! $5000 and there was something about it that I just couldn't pull the trigger on the purchase. Funny thing is no one else could either. It took a year for it to sell. But it has always gave me that feeling like I should have bought that! Haha! Sounds like I should have because offroad stuff is what I like most. I love riding dirtbikes and people often don't understand why I would ride a bigger, heavier and less capable bike where a dirt bike would be so much better. For me it is the challenge of it and I love it! But the 640 just looked to be done so well. Rats.....missed out!
Now thinking 2013-2016 500exc low hour , loved my last one wide ratio built proof engine can see 450 hours before top end rebuild and you can still buy 20 liter tank for that model. down side is its more thirsty then 2018 up 500s but Rex can tweek it with a remap