Script & sources at: www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/11/what-makes-us-postmodern/ ► Sign up for the newsletter to get concise digestible summaries: www.thenandnow.co/the-newsletter/ ► Why Support Then & Now? www.patreon.com/user/about?u=3517018
“Postmodernity is said to be a culture of fragmentary sensations, eclectic nostalgia, disposable simulacra, and promiscuous superficiality, in which the traditionally valued qualities of depth, coherence, meaning, originality, and authenticity are evacuated or dissolved amid the random swirl of empty signals.” ― Jean Baudrillard
@@aaron2709 Well, in that case I would recommend just reading Baudrillard. He gives specific examples and topics which he examines that describe the post-modern condition, such as his description of "sign value" in post-industrial societies, that is: objects are not evaluated upon their use or exchange value (as Marx would think) but rather on the basis of what they represent (pure appearence). Therefore, the fundamental relationship between man and nature is distorted and alienated; as Baudrillard describes it as "hyper-reality". Capitalism reinforces this distorted relationship or it could be argued gave birth to it, since it benefits consumer culture. Baudrillard was very pessimistic about this existential condition and thought that objects triumphed over subjects, thereby rejecting the marxist or hegelian notion of a linear view of history that is determined to result in a form of salvation from this prior state of being.
@@aaronwatch3214 Brands such as Gucci, Prada or Yeezy are great examples, but also other forms of representation such as the commercialized multicultural slogans brands like Nike associate themselves with.
@@aaronwatch3214 Maybe start with Debord’s _Society of The Spectacle_ before getting into Baudrillard. But as for Baudrillard himself, Prof. Rick Roderick has one of my favorite all time lectures regarding him: ua-cam.com/video/2U9WMftV40c/v-deo.html
Then I'm postmodern in doubting Lyotard writings about something he claims as bullshit 'grand narratives of modernity"..He's making it up. He 's a postmodern postmodernist who then wrote a book..
You should check out Bruno Latour’s works specifically on his talks on Gaia Is Not The Globe where he proposes a third trajectory somewhere beyond and between the traditional ways of life and globalization, and somehow find a footing in that new ground.
I feel like the explorer analogy makes sense, but at the same time the exploring is in many senses so mediated, distant and even, ironically, prepackaged and bounded that can bring apathy rather than excitement. In a sense not only we're both more connected and more isolated, but also the world is larger than ever on the one hand while in the other we exist most of time in tighter, more purpose-built spaces
i love the evolution of your editing style. Your videos have been a part of my journey to a better, less noisy, understanding of our world. very thankful for channels like yours
i ve rediscovered your channel after 2 years or so, this was a brilliant video, please, dont stop youre filling me with possible ways of understanding the world around me
I'm reminded of one of Marx's description of what is essentially the ubiquitous feeling of 'postmodernism' in his later consideration (and after the failures of many revolutionary movements) of automation and the evolution of technology in mediating social relationships that trend to serve the perpetuation of the system for its own sake rather than having it serve us by taking back that control, cementing/reifying that whole "capitalist realism" ontology: _“Once adopted into the production process of capital, the means of labour passes through different metamorphoses, whose culmination is the… automatic system of machinery… set in motion by an automaton, a moving power that moves itself; this automaton consisting of numerous mechanical and intellectual organs, so that the workers themselves are cast merely as its conscious linkages.”_ - “The Fragment on Machines” in The Grundrisse
Beautiful quotes of Marx that you are posting. I guess the post-modern condition stems obviously from the mode of production (Capitalism) and its self-perpetuating superstructure which is based upon the reduction of being to mere reason; manifesting itself in our contemporary homo oeconomicus view of human existence along side some pseudo-moralistic notions of humanism .
This is philosophy and art combined. The production of these videos is superb. I'm not sure there can be any improvement over this. Love your channel. Keep up the good work.
This channel just found me and this is one of the best produced videos I’ve seen so far this year. Entertaining, interesting, informative, provocative, and weirdly nostalgic. Can’t wait to dive into the back cat. Well done.
This channel is so underrated, had seen a couple a few months ago but got distracted by other subjects and after diving back into philosophy a couple months ago I've been watching 2 or more vids here a day lol
Is Metamodernism a concrete conception yet? I'm not even fully through this video yet and I am loving it. I've said for myself that I believe postmodernism came in from the instantiation of neoliberalism and the fall of the soviet union as a collective Other for the west along with the dissemination of postmodern ideologies on the internet. Love the deleuzian/parreti use of schizophrenia too.
This is truly, art. I am amazed, this content gave me goosebumps several times for the storytelling and music, combined with beautifully selected and edited footage. Simply superb.
I always liked Marx's elaboration of man's ability to control history, and really his entire project was about how we can regain that human autonomy to regain control of the juggernaut of course, that inherent tension of managing "freedom". _"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."_
The difference between early and late Marx is truly a sight to behold. Where the early Marx conceived of a history with the subject at its center, the late Marx outright rejects the notion of a subject as a whole in the context of historical materialism and dialectics. I wonder what Marx would think nowadays about the capitalist state of being in the context of history; I can imagine he would become as much as a pessimist as Adorno and Baudrillard.
@@Simon-ro9hz I don't know, I feel postmodern is a description of late stage capitalism that has become far more determined by consumption rather than by labour and yet it is disassociating modernist frameworks to the point where something will have to take its place. I think the strict interpretation of historical and dialectical materialism may not apply but postmodernism has to implode at some point and we may see a stateless classless society emerge from it, seeing as atomisation and radicalisation is now more relevant than ever being we could see significant change in the social order. I just don't think it is a stateless society can be achieved by enlarging state power as the Soviet Union thought it could achieve by building up production for the ubiquity ready for the ruling class to no longer exist and rather we will see those we work take back control from the schizophrenic nature of power and run the economy for themselves and their autonomous communities. But that's just my theory.
@@danksheev66 That's quite an optimistic perspective. I'd rather think in terms of whether a collapse will even occur. Capitalism is so effective at adapting itself to contemporary social conditions, so that every capitalist metamorphesis will be the prevalent mode of production underlying all economically and politically relevant nations. That is precisely the objection I have against Marx' linear view of history and dialectics; it's just an archaic hegelian conception that doesn't apply to a world that is changing so fast and is made up of so many variables which makes predictibility in any sense of the future practically impossible, at least in the precise manner Marx conceives of in his philosophy of history. That doesn't mean I reject the concept of historical materialism as such, it is very useful when examining social and political dynamics but not beyond them. You are right in the sense that consumption is the primary characteristic of post-modernity, in the sense that it implies that developed nations live in such an abundance of material goods that it is impossible to think of a revolutionary force that could emerge which would cause a change to the fundamental mode of production, that is Capitalism, through collectivized means of production for example. This mechanism of capital is what makes itself so robust to revolution, alongside its superstructural manifestions such as media, literature and ideology. People have no desire to revolt in a state of material satiety and existential security. As Machiavelli states that people will obey the system or government indefinetly as long as it legitimizes itself by guaranteeing existential and material security.
Q: What makes us postmodern? A: It's fundamentally whether I trust myself to think through things. I do trust myself, therefore I'm not postmodern - although I'll concede you may be - certainly if you call yourself so.
Emotion is always as important as reason because we are human (like it or not), not just for postmodern human (if there's such thing), that's where uncertainty from.... Emotion is by nature uncertain regardless ancient/modern/postmodern.
this feels like a nice summation of a complex concept. i only find particular fault with the conclusion, which seems to seek a gentle touchdown for its audience, but must jettison sincerity in order to do so. video essays don't need a happy end just because they fear pushing their audience further into depression. it undermines the credibility of the whole preceding piece.
@@Disentropic1 tough to say for a vid i watched two weeks ago. my shitty memory says something like: it seems that the vast majority of the vid was about how "shit sucks" and had a lot of arguments to back that up. and then when it got to "but maybe it's ok?" part it felt weak and unsupported. paying lip service to optimism, going through the motions.
@@camhcom Thanks for the response. That's pretty far away from my takeaway, though. I saw this video as taking postmodernism rather seriously and intended overall as a defense of it considering its poor reputation among the public. The point of laying out the cons with postmodernism, I think, is to encourage those who only ever hear it critiqued to take the upsides more seriously (as it's convincing that the author isn't overlooking its flaws.)
@@Disentropic1 It's completely obvious why. But also impossible to say and actually know it. "He who knows, does not say, and he who says, does not truly know."
i think Kafka summed this up nicely in The Castle. The frivolous search for 'purpose' and meaning, while almost slaving away in life's dreary existence, only to know that it was all in vain. A sense of belonging, completely lost. We all want to get to this 'castle' or the good life/happiness, but we don't know what it is and how to get it. We have all the means and things we think are necessary for getting there, but still, we fail. That's post-modernism right there.
Thank you so much for this summary of a perplexing subject. It is common to our conscious species, will all our claims to knowledge, that in reality we have no clue as to what is happening to us.
Good writing and content, but for feedback, in looking to up your production value, definitely look into your speech audio quality. It's like I'm listening to three different people depending on whether you're outside (which is tricky to produce), or talking from across the table, or speaking into a mic. Unless you can smoothly combine the three, sticking to something that's close to a singular audio source might be enough. It gets pretty bad around something like 23:20 where the background music also overtakes the speech volume rather noticeably. It's disorienting, and not in the sort of way that massages the message of the medium of the video essay. Either way, found your channel through that lively debate with Moeller. wishing all the best. I'm for more accessible explanations of the postmodern, in this age where it's so strongly co-opted as a scare word by whatever right-wing political agitators and their podcast empires, who themselves are as much of a postmodern symptom as anything that you could find in their worst infinitely re-enacted fever dreams. If there's a way out of this, it's in passing through it, not fantasizing fake pasts.
I thought it was incidentally disorientating in a way that backs up both the video's chosen subject narrative and a need to recognise that Educational Philosophy videos such as this one require support in order to afford microphones, and create better video quality. Also, it reminded me of the time I made a video advertisement for a competition to win money to pay a student loan- we couldn't afford a microphone so presumably it would have contributed to the video not winning! Such are the popular expectations of people in the World today.
Wonderfully done! Putting something thats been heavily debated over the turn of the 20th century ever since it's insception into words. I couldn't have had agreed more! I specifically emphasize with what you've mentioned at the end of the video about being on the possible edge of something new, a new order that is diffrent from even the ever increasingly complex one we're in today. I feel like despite what I know even now I ask myself that everyday. Bravo!
the (perhaps accidental) use of fourth wall breaks in a brechtian way, in contrast with modernist standards of a well-contained story, parallels the distinction between the ordered, controlled ideas of modernism, and the postmodern way, heavily dependent on the subjectivity of an audience's perception and framing, which is cool.
Thanks this is a great resource.Please continue the good work Technically I would suggest running all audio through an equaliser as most of your "to camera" audio is far to low contrasted to the V/O.
I'm doing a degree in photography. I have to approach the subject of critical perspectives-One of these is Modernism/Postmodernism. Your channel is a great resource that helps me immensely. Thanks.
14:26 to enlightenment. We see that the important things are still the same. Food. Water. Shelter. Clothes. A community that accepts one for whomever one may be without judgement. Technology can set us free, but only if we abandon the scarcity mindset, the only zero-sum game that exists when it comes the the long term survival of the human species on this planet, is that we all survive or no one survives. We have to save each other as it were, or maybe I've been blazing a little too hard xD. Beautiful videos!
I’m on my phone right now, taking a break on my couch in the evening, and bracing for the second daily deluge of emails from the far away time zones of my mega company. The future is great!
That ending felt shockingly oblivious to the state of the world and its trajectory, I must say. I think the pervasive pessimism of the day is reasonable. I also get uncomfortable hearing the word "we" thrown about so much, as if everyone was of the same mind and desire. A hell of a lot of people are being battered about by the storm and not riding the surf. A lot of people feel powerless because they definitely are. Choices of multiple brands at the store is not the same having meaningful control of your housing, medical care, transport, and political representation. You make it sound like the conditions of the modern world are at least partly created in a vacuum in spite of starting off mentioning the great powers that actively shape the world most of us have to exist within. It's the elephant in the room kind of gets obscured with the rest of the content, spot on as much of it may be.
I think fundamentally evolution is like that as well. When our ancestors came out of the water they had to evolve to breathe which caused a lot of new problems, after that evolved to walk on two feet which caused another problem, evolved to think which drove to psychological problems and etc what matters is at the end when the equation is giving you net benefit and that can be proven only trough time.
Where did the future go? 30 years ago I was promised rocket shoes, meals in pill form, holidays on the moon, virtually unlimited leisure time, a cure for the common cold, an end to domestic drudgery, teleportation technology, vat grown meat and children (not to be confused!), an end to world hunger, a secure and ever lasting peace, fusion power that was virtually free... Where did it all go? It could have been so much better...
Check Mark Fisher's hauntology. We are being haunted not by the specters of the past but by the lost futures modernity promised us and never came to be, canceled by the capitalist ontology of our times
I'd be interested in what you make of Alex Callinicos's: Against Postmodern - A Marxist Critique. Its argument is summed up on the first chapter, I recall
Postmodernism is a multi-faceted reaction against Modernism. Modernism asserted the establishment’s ideals of positivism, simplicity, endless growth. If anyone challenges these assertions or apply criticality, you are post-modern.
@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself Actually most people see limitations and flaws in the assumptions of Modernism. Most find it difficult to articulate their frustrations. You love modernism maybe?
& under postmodernity, when the old meta-narratives on universal scientific/liberal-capitalist progress crumble - what is left? What do people attach onto? Based on current trends, just seems like it’s ethno-centrism and fascism. It’s terrifying to watch but it’s literally unfolding around us right now. The world is falling back into blocs intent on tearing each other apart.
Technically, wouldn't the ideas that make up enthno-centerism and nationalism that make up fascism themselves be a grand-narrative? For example: the idea of the "white race" as something with an essential nature towards "superiority" through one argument or another already posits a historically transcendental grand-narrative. If I were to guess, their present reappearance might be the result of a reactionary stance against processes dissolving its material/ideological base. Considering the very concept of what it means to be reactionary, I don't think it was ever possible for a peaceful surrender to the forces of postmodernity.
Maybe the point between pre-modernism, modernism and post-modern is the point of intersection between anarchism and Stateism. That means that in the worst case scenario, there is chance for a cycle to occur… or maybe it’s already occured I’m high, but imagine that the civilization dark age after the ancient civilizations began to fade out, was just that intersection… and the reestablishment of empires afterwards was just a the cycle repeating
I hate to be petty about such a very fine and intellectually important video. Sorrrrry. I have to adjust audio volume UP and Down ... Down and Up. I feel cheap mentioning it. Future reference perhaps.
I have to take issue with the framing that because we had less information available to us in the past that somehow we were better off. It entirely depends on what you value.
We just didn't know what we didn't know. That doesn't mean we were better off. At least I certainly don't feel that way. We need to stop demanding clear ending points and lines of delineation. It was never real.
_"Modern bourgeois society, with its relations of production, of exchange and of property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells."_ _"All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind."_ But of course...seems to have jumped the gun on that last part lol...
Enjoyed your take, thanks for making. One critique, I don't think using the term schizophrenic is effective, since most people don't actually know the true meaning of that mental illness and I suspect it is misunderstood. Other than that, a lot of good food for thought. Thank you!
These are essential perspectives on the question. We often forget context when we are confronting various social, ideological, or philosophical movements. Who is the producer/presenter of this channel?
As I understand it there's discussion on if we've entered the meta-modern/post-postmodern era, but no real consensus in the field of sociology. At least, this was the case when I was introduced to the idea of meta-modernism a few years back. However my knowledge of it is very limited and I don't know if there's been development in the past years. I also recently heard an interview where the interviewee claimedthat we would be entering into the era of post-normality, where climate change combined with constant stream of (miss)information causes constant shifts in politics, daily life, culture, economics etc. and we'll have to adapt constantly.
I agree. Kind of a strech to call the 2010s postmodern. Of course, there can never be literal demarcations, as each age begins in the previous, and extends into the next. However, if we consider things like watershed moments/events, zeitgeist, technological changes, then definitely the 2010s (or rather post 2008 financial crisis) with social media & targetted surveillance, severe political polarisation, rise of right wing politics globally, post truth and climate crisis, seem to be a different era or a transition towards it.
The Google Map is one universal map in terms of physical geography which is unprecedented compared to the vast divergences of historical maps. But at the same time no one user has the same Google Map in terms of human geography. Some stores are hidden, others are shown driven by humanless recommendation algorithms
I feel this last 20 years that we've progressed beyond postmodernism; that we now live in a digital era of posthumanism where we've gone from being consumers, to being the consumed, and the end of bodily autonomy and having some semblance of control over our own lives. At least, under postmodernism, we still had the ability to say 'No!'.
What makes us post-modern is precisely that context in which such a question becomes intelligible, admissible, sensible, meaningful. It is the second-order reflexive semantics of a distributed, industrialised, integrated communications system that provides value and utility in, through and as the complexity and uncertainty that it, itself no longer surprised by but endlessly enduring, inhabits. UA-cam videos discuss other UA-cam videos, critical reviews as emotive responses to cultural artefacts (music reaction videos: "person x listens to song y for the first time"); a self-referential matrix that has become as normative as the technology it rode in on. The Zeitgeist of the post-modern is that self-inflected recursive ubiquity of logical incompleteness, material uncertainty, algorithmic undecidability and effervescing complexity (as entropy) that becomes the transmission medium as much as the microcosms in artefacts, entities and systems of its own optimal self-propagating continuity. It is a Copernican turn - information systems have taken the center once held by self or identity as control and the extent to which we fail to notice this is a measure of its unbounded success. This, sir, is what it means to be post-modern.
Great video. I think we are as we always were and always will be. We just have different ideas about how that is. The ideas will never be the truth about our situation. They never were and never will be. It’s above our pay grade. It doesn’t mean binomial it mean the arrogance of the human und needs to be tempered.
In 1967, the Manabe/Wetherald atmospheric model ended Modernity and popularized the understanding that human extinction precedes human escape from Earth. What is said in this video is largely misleading- the post-1968 world is marked by the expectation that the 21st century will be humanity's last - the nostalgia, paralysis, stasis, and lack of meaning of modern life is misinterpreted in this video, which issues the mainstream philosophical view. What we exist in is a real existential crisis, not an "attitudinal" or cultural position. This is the reason that the control model has been abandoned - the Elite no longer believe that humanity has a future, and therefore there's little value in controlling humanity in the 21st century. There is much more value in building up a network of computers, powerful AI that can extend past humanity and serve the Elite in their last few decades. What is actually the dying world is misinterpreted as cultural progress, of "throwing off the shackles of the old kings", nevermind that the lack of any future for humanity renders political reality in the 21st century terrible and meaningless - a socialist revolution, dreamt of by Karl Marx who thought it was a centuries-long stepping stone to an even more Enlightened political system, for us is a cruel joke, that even if accomplished would merely improve the lives of humans in our final decades of existence. The idiotic focus on Postmodernism, an attitudinal, pretentious, and largely nonexistent culture covers up the reality of Postmodernity - the dying world that we would rather not face. Modernity, lasting from the early 17th century till 1968, sought to enable some humans to escape an Earth that was recognized early during industrialization as being considerably harmed. The Manabe/Wetherald atmospheric model ended this period of global society and entered us into an ideological void, where capitalism has no purpose but where socialism has little value to be introduced. We are now "running out the clock" till human extinction, but we pretend to be engaged in cultural progress, speaking of an "end to metanarratives", a "new era of freedom", and similar nonsense.
Although you have a fair knowledge of philosophical terminology, you need more caution when you venture into psychology (e.g., 21:15 "schizophrenia." Consult the APA dictionary or the DSM for a proper understanding of that term.
The modern age began with industrialism. Approximately 1898. This was the period of widening use of electrical power and petroleum (oil). An early and continued form of industrialism (industrialization) was Rail. The modern age is characterized by advances in metallurgy, and welding. The graduation of it was the widespread use of the automobile and electrification of household appliances (the two with most impact being television and radio). The post modern age began with the introduction of, and the 1st spread of, the computer (microchip). 1980. Another term for the post modern age is The Age of the Computer. The graduation of it ensued by the widespread use of the android device (cellphone). We are in the Post Modern Age. And we may well (very likely) never ever advance beyond it. From here on, it's all just Chapters of what will be Volumes, of The Post Modern Age.
In my experience and opinion, Post modem simply means the future, since modern simply means new/current/novel. When referring to art and design as "post modern" its just people trying to make it sound cutting edge.
What you mention about our identity being defined by what we consume, and companies playing into that, is something that I noticed some twelve years ago on social media already. You're pushed to define yourself by what brands you choose. I found that odd then and I still do now.
Absolutely amazing video. However, I have to say that the use of the word “schizophrenic” in this context was a bit off-putting and could be seen as stigmatizing. I think this connotation was unintentional, but it's something to keep in mind for future reference.
Script & sources at: www.thenandnow.co/2023/06/11/what-makes-us-postmodern/
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hi
great work
“Postmodernity is said to be a culture of fragmentary sensations, eclectic nostalgia, disposable simulacra, and promiscuous superficiality, in which the traditionally valued qualities of depth, coherence, meaning, originality, and authenticity are evacuated or dissolved amid the random swirl of empty signals.”
― Jean Baudrillard
Sounds good on first read but it's rather vague. Needs some specifics, ones clearly describing something not found in Modernism.
@@aaron2709 Well, in that case I would recommend just reading Baudrillard. He gives specific examples and topics which he examines that describe the post-modern condition, such as his description of "sign value" in post-industrial societies, that is: objects are not evaluated upon their use or exchange value (as Marx would think) but rather on the basis of what they represent (pure appearence).
Therefore, the fundamental relationship between man and nature is distorted and alienated; as Baudrillard describes it as "hyper-reality". Capitalism reinforces this distorted relationship or it could be argued gave birth to it, since it benefits consumer culture.
Baudrillard was very pessimistic about this existential condition and thought that objects triumphed over subjects, thereby rejecting the marxist or hegelian notion of a linear view of history that is determined to result in a form of salvation from this prior state of being.
@@Simon-ro9hz I said something specific. Give me a specific example of "pure appearance." This is still generalized theory.
@@aaronwatch3214 Brands such as Gucci, Prada or Yeezy are great examples, but also other forms of representation such as the commercialized multicultural slogans brands like Nike associate themselves with.
@@aaronwatch3214 Maybe start with Debord’s _Society of The Spectacle_ before getting into Baudrillard.
But as for Baudrillard himself, Prof. Rick Roderick has one of my favorite all time lectures regarding him: ua-cam.com/video/2U9WMftV40c/v-deo.html
this helped me understand the Postmodern a lot more. thank you!
It’s a very nice touch that you decided to add subtitles to your videos. It’s so much more convenient and easier to understand. Keep up the good work!
Him standing in front of advertisements while explaining the impacts of post-modernity is a nice touch.
“Simplifying to the extreme, I define postmodern as incredulity toward metanarratives.”
-Jean-François Lyotard
Then I'm postmodern in doubting Lyotard writings about something he claims as bullshit 'grand narratives of modernity"..He's making it up. He 's a postmodern postmodernist who then wrote a book..
@@cowflieswest3046 Like, a post-postmodern man?
ua-cam.com/video/jCJoe_4eYU4/v-deo.html
You should check out Bruno Latour’s works specifically on his talks on Gaia Is Not The Globe where he proposes a third trajectory somewhere beyond and between the traditional ways of life and globalization, and somehow find a footing in that new ground.
Yes and his Down to Earth is a really fascinating book about this.
I feel like the explorer analogy makes sense, but at the same time the exploring is in many senses so mediated, distant and even, ironically, prepackaged and bounded that can bring apathy rather than excitement.
In a sense not only we're both more connected and more isolated, but also the world is larger than ever on the one hand while in the other we exist most of time in tighter, more purpose-built spaces
i love the evolution of your editing style. Your videos have been a part of my journey to a better, less noisy, understanding of our world. very thankful for channels like yours
i ve rediscovered your channel after 2 years or so, this was a brilliant video, please, dont stop youre filling me with possible ways of understanding the world around me
dont just rely on one source though
Let me guess, magat talking?
I'm reminded of one of Marx's description of what is essentially the ubiquitous feeling of 'postmodernism' in his later consideration (and after the failures of many revolutionary movements) of automation and the evolution of technology in mediating social relationships that trend to serve the perpetuation of the system for its own sake rather than having it serve us by taking back that control, cementing/reifying that whole "capitalist realism" ontology:
_“Once adopted into the production process of capital, the means of labour passes through different metamorphoses, whose culmination is the… automatic system of machinery… set in motion by an automaton, a moving power that moves itself; this automaton consisting of numerous mechanical and intellectual organs, so that the workers themselves are cast merely as its conscious linkages.”_ - “The Fragment on Machines” in The Grundrisse
Beautiful quotes of Marx that you are posting. I guess the post-modern condition stems obviously from the mode of production (Capitalism) and its self-perpetuating superstructure which is based upon the reduction of being to mere reason; manifesting itself in our contemporary homo oeconomicus view of human existence along side some pseudo-moralistic notions of humanism .
dude, i love the guy reading. so good, such good pauses and pacing. on such dense content. high five man. morgan freeman 2.0.
This is philosophy and art combined. The production of these videos is superb. I'm not sure there can be any improvement over this. Love your channel. Keep up the good work.
Agreed!
This channel just found me and this is one of the best produced videos I’ve seen so far this year. Entertaining, interesting, informative, provocative, and weirdly nostalgic. Can’t wait to dive into the back cat. Well done.
This channel is so underrated, had seen a couple a few months ago but got distracted by other subjects and after diving back into philosophy a couple months ago I've been watching 2 or more vids here a day lol
Is Metamodernism a concrete conception yet? I'm not even fully through this video yet and I am loving it. I've said for myself that I believe postmodernism came in from the instantiation of neoliberalism and the fall of the soviet union as a collective Other for the west along with the dissemination of postmodern ideologies on the internet.
Love the deleuzian/parreti use of schizophrenia too.
This is truly, art. I am amazed, this content gave me goosebumps several times for the storytelling and music, combined with beautifully selected and edited footage. Simply superb.
I always liked Marx's elaboration of man's ability to control history, and really his entire project was about how we can regain that human autonomy to regain control of the juggernaut of course, that inherent tension of managing "freedom".
_"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."_
The difference between early and late Marx is truly a sight to behold. Where the early Marx conceived of a history with the subject at its center, the late Marx outright rejects the notion of a subject as a whole in the context of historical materialism and dialectics.
I wonder what Marx would think nowadays about the capitalist state of being in the context of history; I can imagine he would become as much as a pessimist as Adorno and Baudrillard.
@@Simon-ro9hz I don't know, I feel postmodern is a description of late stage capitalism that has become far more determined by consumption rather than by labour and yet it is disassociating modernist frameworks to the point where something will have to take its place. I think the strict interpretation of historical and dialectical materialism may not apply but postmodernism has to implode at some point and we may see a stateless classless society emerge from it, seeing as atomisation and radicalisation is now more relevant than ever being we could see significant change in the social order. I just don't think it is a stateless society can be achieved by enlarging state power as the Soviet Union thought it could achieve by building up production for the ubiquity ready for the ruling class to no longer exist and rather we will see those we work take back control from the schizophrenic nature of power and run the economy for themselves and their autonomous communities. But that's just my theory.
@@danksheev66 That's quite an optimistic perspective. I'd rather think in terms of whether a collapse will even occur.
Capitalism is so effective at adapting itself to contemporary social conditions, so that every capitalist metamorphesis will be the prevalent mode of production underlying all economically and politically relevant nations.
That is precisely the objection I have against Marx' linear view of history and dialectics; it's just an archaic hegelian conception that doesn't apply to a world that is changing so fast and is made up of so many variables which makes predictibility in any sense of the future practically impossible, at least in the precise manner Marx conceives of in his philosophy of history. That doesn't mean I reject the concept of historical materialism as such, it is very useful when examining social and political dynamics but not beyond them.
You are right in the sense that consumption is the primary characteristic of post-modernity, in the sense that it implies that developed nations live in such an abundance of material goods that it is impossible to think of a revolutionary force that could emerge which would cause a change to the fundamental mode of production, that is Capitalism, through collectivized means of production for example.
This mechanism of capital is what makes itself so robust to revolution, alongside its superstructural manifestions such as media, literature and ideology. People have no desire to revolt in a state of material satiety and existential security. As Machiavelli states that people will obey the system or government indefinetly as long as it legitimizes itself by guaranteeing existential and material security.
@@Simon-ro9hz Yeah I think I know it's like that really I just have to stay optimistic even if it's unrealistic.
@@danksheev66 We all have to :)
Q: What makes us postmodern?
A: It's fundamentally whether I trust myself to think through things. I do trust myself, therefore I'm not postmodern - although I'll concede you may be - certainly if you call yourself so.
Emotion is always as important as reason because we are human (like it or not), not just for postmodern human (if there's such thing), that's where uncertainty from....
Emotion is by nature uncertain regardless ancient/modern/postmodern.
this feels like a nice summation of a complex concept. i only find particular fault with the conclusion, which seems to seek a gentle touchdown for its audience, but must jettison sincerity in order to do so. video essays don't need a happy end just because they fear pushing their audience further into depression. it undermines the credibility of the whole preceding piece.
What makes you think the optimism is insincere?
@@Disentropic1 tough to say for a vid i watched two weeks ago. my shitty memory says something like:
it seems that the vast majority of the vid was about how "shit sucks" and had a lot of arguments to back that up. and then when it got to "but maybe it's ok?" part it felt weak and unsupported. paying lip service to optimism, going through the motions.
@@camhcom Thanks for the response. That's pretty far away from my takeaway, though. I saw this video as taking postmodernism rather seriously and intended overall as a defense of it considering its poor reputation among the public. The point of laying out the cons with postmodernism, I think, is to encourage those who only ever hear it critiqued to take the upsides more seriously (as it's convincing that the author isn't overlooking its flaws.)
Yeah ha ha, completely agree.
If we are truly Post-modern we have a duty to unite and REBEL against the modern world that has enslaved us.
@@Disentropic1 It's completely obvious why.
But also impossible to say and actually know it.
"He who knows, does not say, and he who says, does not truly know."
i think Kafka summed this up nicely in The Castle. The frivolous search for 'purpose' and meaning, while almost slaving away in life's dreary existence, only to know that it was all in vain. A sense of belonging, completely lost. We all want to get to this 'castle' or the good life/happiness, but we don't know what it is and how to get it. We have all the means and things we think are necessary for getting there, but still, we fail. That's post-modernism right there.
"Gibt es Auf!" :)
You made a very good use of that patreon money, your content is exceptionally good and now your production also is.
Thank you so much for this summary of a perplexing subject. It is common to our conscious species, will all our claims to knowledge, that in reality we have no clue as to what is happening to us.
Your videos are works of art as much as educational pieces
This guy can't even mix audio correctly; the volume level between the different clips is so inconsistent.
Good writing and content, but for feedback, in looking to up your production value, definitely look into your speech audio quality. It's like I'm listening to three different people depending on whether you're outside (which is tricky to produce), or talking from across the table, or speaking into a mic. Unless you can smoothly combine the three, sticking to something that's close to a singular audio source might be enough. It gets pretty bad around something like 23:20 where the background music also overtakes the speech volume rather noticeably. It's disorienting, and not in the sort of way that massages the message of the medium of the video essay.
Either way, found your channel through that lively debate with Moeller. wishing all the best. I'm for more accessible explanations of the postmodern, in this age where it's so strongly co-opted as a scare word by whatever right-wing political agitators and their podcast empires, who themselves are as much of a postmodern symptom as anything that you could find in their worst infinitely re-enacted fever dreams. If there's a way out of this, it's in passing through it, not fantasizing fake pasts.
I thought it was incidentally disorientating in a way that backs up both the video's chosen subject narrative and a need to recognise that Educational Philosophy videos such as this one require support in order to afford microphones, and create better video quality. Also, it reminded me of the time I made a video advertisement for a competition to win money to pay a student loan- we couldn't afford a microphone so presumably it would have contributed to the video not winning! Such are the popular expectations of people in the World today.
@@slambangwallop You and OP are right
Wonderfully done! Putting something thats been heavily debated over the turn of the 20th century ever since it's insception into words. I couldn't have had agreed more! I specifically emphasize with what you've mentioned at the end of the video about being on the possible edge of something new, a new order that is diffrent from even the ever increasingly complex one we're in today. I feel like despite what I know even now I ask myself that everyday. Bravo!
Is that new frontier AI? Seems to be what he’s implying and what reality is evidencing.
the (perhaps accidental) use of fourth wall breaks in a brechtian way, in contrast with modernist standards of a well-contained story, parallels the distinction between the ordered, controlled ideas of modernism, and the postmodern way, heavily dependent on the subjectivity of an audience's perception and framing, which is cool.
Thanks this is a great resource.Please continue the good work
Technically I would suggest running all audio through an equaliser as most of your "to camera" audio is far to low contrasted to the V/O.
The audio needs to be normalized and possibly compressed to match levels of different segments. The EQ would be to match the tonality.
Yuppie !!!!!! =isuch an under rated comment
I'm doing a degree in photography. I have to approach the subject of critical perspectives-One of these is Modernism/Postmodernism. Your channel is a great resource that helps me immensely. Thanks.
We're post-post- modern already, and it looks a lot like being modern.
14:26 to enlightenment. We see that the important things are still the same. Food. Water. Shelter. Clothes. A community that accepts one for whomever one may be without judgement. Technology can set us free, but only if we abandon the scarcity mindset, the only zero-sum game that exists when it comes the the long term survival of the human species on this planet, is that we all survive or no one survives. We have to save each other as it were, or maybe I've been blazing a little too hard xD. Beautiful videos!
"All that was once directly lived has become mere representation"
Guy Debord: The Society of the Spectacle
I love your channel so much. Been watching your back catalog all week.
Honestly one of the best video essays I’ve ever watched
Incredible as always! Loved it
19:57 the hands moving in time with the music was really nice
I’m on my phone right now, taking a break on my couch in the evening, and bracing for the second daily deluge of emails from the far away time zones of my mega company. The future is great!
That ending felt shockingly oblivious to the state of the world and its trajectory, I must say. I think the pervasive pessimism of the day is reasonable. I also get uncomfortable hearing the word "we" thrown about so much, as if everyone was of the same mind and desire. A hell of a lot of people are being battered about by the storm and not riding the surf. A lot of people feel powerless because they definitely are. Choices of multiple brands at the store is not the same having meaningful control of your housing, medical care, transport, and political representation. You make it sound like the conditions of the modern world are at least partly created in a vacuum in spite of starting off mentioning the great powers that actively shape the world most of us have to exist within. It's the elephant in the room kind of gets obscured with the rest of the content, spot on as much of it may be.
It has become more and more obvious that there is nothing more dangerous to human than human himself!!!
I think fundamentally evolution is like that as well. When our ancestors came out of the water they had to evolve to breathe which caused a lot of new problems, after that evolved to walk on two feet which caused another problem, evolved to think which drove to psychological problems and etc what matters is at the end when the equation is giving you net benefit and that can be proven only trough time.
Where did the future go? 30 years ago I was promised rocket shoes, meals in pill form, holidays on the moon, virtually unlimited leisure time, a cure for the common cold, an end to domestic drudgery, teleportation technology, vat grown meat and children (not to be confused!), an end to world hunger, a secure and ever lasting peace, fusion power that was virtually free... Where did it all go? It could have been so much better...
Well said, the world tunred out shit and we have to suffer the consequences
Check Mark Fisher's hauntology. We are being haunted not by the specters of the past but by the lost futures modernity promised us and never came to be, canceled by the capitalist ontology of our times
everyone here is a retard. peter thiel’s talks on stagnation are where you’ll find the answer to your question
@@dudenamepo lol
@@dudenamepo Oh my.
I'd be interested in what you make of Alex Callinicos's: Against Postmodern - A Marxist Critique. Its argument is summed up on the first chapter, I recall
Got a link?
21:55 the timing of this segment meshed really well with the background 😮
*gleefully pointing out random fact* - 21:39 - that's the Eaton Centre in Toronto! :D
You are very good at choosing topics of interest.
Ok sounds interesting, now back to my Meditations of Markus Aurelius audiobook
“Audiobooks” are EXTREMELY postmodern
Unironically an example of what he’s talking about
@@eldenfindley186 That was kinda the point, tongue in cheek
@@hpsauce1078 I’m glad to hear that. Stoicism is dumb af
This was fantastic to watch!
Chul Han's Psychopolitics is a must to understand our postmodern society.
Postmodernism is a multi-faceted reaction against Modernism. Modernism asserted the establishment’s ideals of positivism, simplicity, endless growth. If anyone challenges these assertions or apply criticality, you are post-modern.
This, I'm glad someone said it.
Traditionalists are even Post-modern as well.
REVOLT AGAINST THE MODERN WORLD.
@@scythermantis I agree. Then the next question would be: what is progressive/regressive.
That is why postmodernism is such a destructive and worthless philosophy.
It is the greatest enemy of our time.
@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself Actually most people see limitations and flaws in the assumptions of Modernism. Most find it difficult to articulate their frustrations. You love modernism maybe?
Except that these 3 ideals existed before Modernism and they are too general to describe a distinctive age.
what a great video! your editing style and choice of clips reminds me very much of Adam Curtis
Just found your channel - and I love it!
& under postmodernity, when the old meta-narratives on universal scientific/liberal-capitalist progress crumble - what is left? What do people attach onto?
Based on current trends, just seems like it’s ethno-centrism and fascism.
It’s terrifying to watch but it’s literally unfolding around us right now. The world is falling back into blocs intent on tearing each other apart.
Technically, wouldn't the ideas that make up enthno-centerism and nationalism that make up fascism themselves be a grand-narrative? For example: the idea of the "white race" as something with an essential nature towards "superiority" through one argument or another already posits a historically transcendental grand-narrative. If I were to guess, their present reappearance might be the result of a reactionary stance against processes dissolving its material/ideological base. Considering the very concept of what it means to be reactionary, I don't think it was ever possible for a peaceful surrender to the forces of postmodernity.
Maybe the point between pre-modernism, modernism and post-modern is the point of intersection between anarchism and Stateism. That means that in the worst case scenario, there is chance for a cycle to occur… or maybe it’s already occured
I’m high, but imagine that the civilization dark age after the ancient civilizations began to fade out, was just that intersection… and the reestablishment of empires afterwards was just a the cycle repeating
This channel deserves the highest praise.
I hate to be petty about such a very fine and intellectually important video. Sorrrrry. I have to adjust audio volume UP and Down ... Down and Up. I feel cheap mentioning it. Future reference perhaps.
I have to take issue with the framing that because we had less information available to us in the past that somehow we were better off. It entirely depends on what you value.
We just didn't know what we didn't know. That doesn't mean we were better off. At least I certainly don't feel that way. We need to stop demanding clear ending points and lines of delineation. It was never real.
Can you please do one on metamodernism 🙏
pretty DAMN good video, so many "AHA! THATS WHY" moments
_"Modern bourgeois society, with its relations of production, of exchange and of property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells."_
_"All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind."_
But of course...seems to have jumped the gun on that last part lol...
Enjoyed your take, thanks for making. One critique, I don't think using the term schizophrenic is effective, since most people don't actually know the true meaning of that mental illness and I suspect it is misunderstood. Other than that, a lot of good food for thought. Thank you!
So Good it's almost too Good.. Densely Thought Provoking.. Quite Intense in a self confronting way.. I Like !! my brain hurts/
I was waiting for this🤩
These are essential perspectives on the question. We often forget context when we are confronting various social, ideological, or philosophical movements. Who is the producer/presenter of this channel?
Fantastic video. Way to capture the cultural zeitgeist in a thirty-minute video. 👏
I thought we already left post modern. I was under the impression we were now in a stage known as meta modern.
As I understand it there's discussion on if we've entered the meta-modern/post-postmodern era, but no real consensus in the field of sociology. At least, this was the case when I was introduced to the idea of meta-modernism a few years back. However my knowledge of it is very limited and I don't know if there's been development in the past years. I also recently heard an interview where the interviewee claimedthat we would be entering into the era of post-normality, where climate change combined with constant stream of (miss)information causes constant shifts in politics, daily life, culture, economics etc. and we'll have to adapt constantly.
There's no such thing
I agree. Kind of a strech to call the 2010s postmodern. Of course, there can never be literal demarcations, as each age begins in the previous, and extends into the next. However, if we consider things like watershed moments/events, zeitgeist, technological changes, then definitely the 2010s (or rather post 2008 financial crisis) with social media & targetted surveillance, severe political polarisation, rise of right wing politics globally, post truth and climate crisis, seem to be a different era or a transition towards it.
My exact thinking. That is probably what the next video is going to be on :).
Post-post modernism, metamodernism, etc. are fundamentally postmodernism. They just describe various nuances.
The Google Map is one universal map in terms of physical geography which is unprecedented compared to the vast divergences of historical maps. But at the same time no one user has the same Google Map in terms of human geography. Some stores are hidden, others are shown driven by humanless recommendation algorithms
The irony of me watching this at double speed....
I feel this last 20 years that we've progressed beyond postmodernism; that we now live in a digital era of posthumanism where we've gone from being consumers, to being the consumed, and the end of bodily autonomy and having some semblance of control over our own lives. At least, under postmodernism, we still had the ability to say 'No!'.
*What Makes us Postmodern?*
It's realizing that we grow from what we leave behind, as we look to what's ahead.
I love how you put 80's synth music over the black and white family eating lunch while talking about values losing meaning. Nice touch there. At 18:00
useful,very OK. thank-you. well done!
Nice, it's like you made a movie about my nervous breakdown.
Very impressive production
i liked the video but please improve on the sound mixing - the fluctuation in loud and low was hard to cope with... thank you!
What makes us post-modern is precisely that context in which such a question becomes intelligible, admissible, sensible, meaningful. It is the second-order reflexive semantics of a distributed, industrialised, integrated communications system that provides value and utility in, through and as the complexity and uncertainty that it, itself no longer surprised by but endlessly enduring, inhabits. UA-cam videos discuss other UA-cam videos, critical reviews as emotive responses to cultural artefacts (music reaction videos: "person x listens to song y for the first time"); a self-referential matrix that has become as normative as the technology it rode in on. The Zeitgeist of the post-modern is that self-inflected recursive ubiquity of logical incompleteness, material uncertainty, algorithmic undecidability and effervescing complexity (as entropy) that becomes the transmission medium as much as the microcosms in artefacts, entities and systems of its own optimal self-propagating continuity. It is a Copernican turn - information systems have taken the center once held by self or identity as control and the extent to which we fail to notice this is a measure of its unbounded success. This, sir, is what it means to be post-modern.
Got any recommendations of reading that align with this? Really liked.
The fact that I could guess that this was gonna be your next video makes me post modern.😎😰🤯
Great video. I think we are as we always were and always will be. We just have different ideas about how that is. The ideas will never be the truth about our situation. They never were and never will be. It’s above our pay grade.
It doesn’t mean binomial it mean the arrogance of the human und needs to be tempered.
In 1967, the Manabe/Wetherald atmospheric model ended Modernity and popularized the understanding that human extinction precedes human escape from Earth. What is said in this video is largely misleading- the post-1968 world is marked by the expectation that the 21st century will be humanity's last - the nostalgia, paralysis, stasis, and lack of meaning of modern life is misinterpreted in this video, which issues the mainstream philosophical view. What we exist in is a real existential crisis, not an "attitudinal" or cultural position.
This is the reason that the control model has been abandoned - the Elite no longer believe that humanity has a future, and therefore there's little value in controlling humanity in the 21st century. There is much more value in building up a network of computers, powerful AI that can extend past humanity and serve the Elite in their last few decades.
What is actually the dying world is misinterpreted as cultural progress, of "throwing off the shackles of the old kings", nevermind that the lack of any future for humanity renders political reality in the 21st century terrible and meaningless - a socialist revolution, dreamt of by Karl Marx who thought it was a centuries-long stepping stone to an even more Enlightened political system, for us is a cruel joke, that even if accomplished would merely improve the lives of humans in our final decades of existence.
The idiotic focus on Postmodernism, an attitudinal, pretentious, and largely nonexistent culture covers up the reality of Postmodernity - the dying world that we would rather not face. Modernity, lasting from the early 17th century till 1968, sought to enable some humans to escape an Earth that was recognized early during industrialization as being considerably harmed. The Manabe/Wetherald atmospheric model ended this period of global society and entered us into an ideological void, where capitalism has no purpose but where socialism has little value to be introduced. We are now "running out the clock" till human extinction, but we pretend to be engaged in cultural progress, speaking of an "end to metanarratives", a "new era of freedom", and similar nonsense.
Although you have a fair knowledge of philosophical terminology, you need more caution when you venture into psychology (e.g., 21:15 "schizophrenia." Consult the APA dictionary or the DSM for a proper understanding of that term.
Maybe we all have some sort of urge to destroy things that we've built kind of like how people make domino and card tower and dissolve them
Excellent use of old films.
What's that old film interspersed with the narration? It seems very interesting.
The modern age began with industrialism. Approximately 1898.
This was the period of widening use of electrical power and petroleum (oil).
An early and continued form of industrialism (industrialization) was Rail.
The modern age is characterized by advances in metallurgy, and welding.
The graduation of it was the widespread use of the automobile and electrification of household appliances (the two with most impact being television and radio).
The post modern age began with the introduction of, and the 1st spread of, the computer (microchip). 1980.
Another term for the post modern age is The Age of the Computer.
The graduation of it ensued by the widespread use of the android device (cellphone).
We are in the Post Modern Age.
And we may well (very likely) never ever advance beyond it.
From here on, it's all just Chapters of what will be Volumes,
of The Post Modern Age.
Excellent, thanks
23:27 *data blind* “we’ve moved from politicians making plans based on their own ideas to politicians just being led by polling.”
Thank you for this video
1:24 don't worry your headphones are fine
This channel is a treasure
Very good content
Saya sangat bangga dengan channel ini🇮🇩
Balancing audio levels is a pretty cool thing, might look into it.
Great video!
The biggest question:
What will happen after this postmodernism?
In my experience and opinion, Post modem simply means the future, since modern simply means new/current/novel. When referring to art and design as "post modern" its just people trying to make it sound cutting edge.
What you mention about our identity being defined by what we consume, and companies playing into that, is something that I noticed some twelve years ago on social media already. You're pushed to define yourself by what brands you choose. I found that odd then and I still do now.
wow, amazing, thx
Sometimes I think.
Big mistake.
Great video
Absolutely amazing video. However, I have to say that the use of the word “schizophrenic” in this context was a bit off-putting and could be seen as stigmatizing. I think this connotation was unintentional, but it's something to keep in mind for future reference.
What’s the music in the background
I love your videos thank you