I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day. 7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well. I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted! I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled. Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago. Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
6:09 I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight. I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor. In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day. Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years. I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom. I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression. Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years. I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc. I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate. Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now. I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah! Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit. What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco. Good work BTW!
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
I’ve been a drug addict my entire life, I’m 37. My story is so similar to Jason’s as far as drug use. Alcohol Xanax Cocaine Crack Meth Heroin all of it. Acid mushrooms ecstasy ketamine weed pills etc. My last addiction was Kratom, 3 years on, 1 year clean from it. This is by far the best depiction of its issues I’ve come across. Kratom was terrible for me personally and my mind is now clear and free from that garbage sludge.
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 while extracts are definitely MORE of the problem, the powder can be bad too. I quit off 50 grams per day and it was very bad. and yes, that's a dumb af amount but i'm not the only one. there are people who get up to 100 gpd. extracts basically remove all guardrails.
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
Not sure what year I first discovered Kratom, but at that time there was almost no US vendors. I bought it from Indonesia. I'm so surprised to see how common it is now. You definitely have to tread lightly with it, though. Especially since it's so readily available now. I try to use it only a few times a month. There's been a few times that I've caught myself taking it more often, just gotta try to reel it in when that happens. I've been heroin-free for 25 years.
@@scarab9762 Ive gotten many gifts, letters and tons of apprecieation and since I only sell powder,no extracts. I dont believe I caused any misery, I know that kratom has helped many of the clients for numerous things. Seems like you just have an addictive personality and abuse it.
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom” Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more. Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people. Kratom saves lives.
Ive secretly started again... and i havent told anyone. And in doing it again at night. And during the day. I know im at 4 or 5 again. And i know its starting to have a major effect again. And i know better....
You can do it. You are self aware. You know you will feel so much better and free after you go a few days without. Just a few days and the suffering will be over my dude. You got this.
Just suffer through it now. You know you will eventually quit at some point when it gets even worse. Don’t lose the next 5 years or more of your life like I did. I wish I suffered sooner. Also, it will only get worse because you will be taking more, guarantee it. Good luck, my friend.
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
Withdrawal sucks but it’s usually four bad days then a blah week. Sleep can be messed up for a month. This is coming off 30gpd of powdered leaf for a few years. Extracts are way harder. Switch to leaf then taper a few weeks, then the cold turkey is way easier.
@ those four days can be so awful depending on amounts taken, but it’s def doable. The first time I quit when I was rly heavily using I couldn’t move those 4 days. I would just sit in my yard in a chair trying to absorb son and not puke 🤮
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution. Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago. I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it. I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from. Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
... This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 nah you're wrong. the thing is most people never get to the level of the use that will cause harsh withdraws. if you've used for 2+ years and take 30g+ per day you WILL have tough withdrawals. extracts make it even easier. for some people it takes less than that. and i mean about 1-2 weeks of cold sweats and no sleep, and then months of getting back to normal. especially if you have no support in other areas of your life. btw it's valid to have a positive opinion on kratom, but the denial you're showing hurts everybody. if you don't believe me, there's countless discussions online you can read.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
This is crazy. Everything in here is exactly what im going through. I tried to stop for 2 days and felt so bad like hes saing, on the inside, had every symptom of a blood infection, so thats what i thought it was. I told myself this cant just be withdrawals. And i was seing this new girl so i was thinking maybe its a std. The doctor came back and said everything's good, not dehydrated or nothing. She said all she could do is prescribe me rest. Its so hard to stop man. I wish I had never started.
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down. I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture. She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted? It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills. Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression. nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time. Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
Wild that this guy thinks the only use for kratom is to get high and thats what he eas doing so that must be what everyone else is doing. Shift your perspective man, this shit helps people
so frustrating to read all these people misusing it and exceeding the amount by 10x and then blaming kratom. They have no idea that it has been a life saver for many.
Yeah man. Those shots with extract are far from the powdered version of the plant. The process of creating extract used in those shots changes the chemical composition and is actually illegal in Indonesia in its extract form. Extract creates a tolerance and you should never use extract more than 2x a week w a few day in between to use it eithout negative effects. I never use extracts. But if you stayed with a tsp of the powdered leaf like the other guy started with, you would have never have these issues. Extract shots is about 20x the active ingredient of the plant plus the byproducts of creating an extract. Extract creates a tolerance almost instantly and results in it being less effective if taken a second time. If you stay with powdered leaf (not these extract shots) you would have never had these issues. So youre adding to the misinformation. You ever smoke herb in flower form? That would be like powdered kratom, The concentrates and dabs and edibles would be like those shots you got into and effect you different from the original plant as its highly processed into crystals. Stay away from liquid kratom (extract) and use the powder. 2grams (a tsp) a couple times a day of powder is the therapeutic dose with no side effects. Sorry to hear about your struggles, but if you research kratom, the info is out there. The way you used the bottles of extract is the worst way possible to utilize any benefits from kratom.
addded reply from below: These liquid extracts are very different from kratom powder because its adulterated into a stronger form through procssing with ETOH. It can be from 10-50x stronger and instantly creates tolerance. Totally different drug and it should be seperated from "kratom" in its powdered form. Its like having a natural vanilla stick with its mild natural flavor and then compare it to vanilla extract. 1 drop is about 3-4 sticks of natura vanilla. 1 KG of kratom makes about 30 grams of extract and extract is made from leaves that are often less fresh or or poor quality as you cant see the ingredients. Plus its not regulated and the processing into extract is done stateside as its illegal to export it in extract form. Similar to turning liquid ketamine to powder, opium resin to heroin or coke to crack if that clarifies. Please stick with powder and avoid shots of kratom. Plus its not regulated and the processing into extract is done stateside as its illegal to export it in extract form. The correct solution is banning extract and allowing powder like they do in Indonesia, the only place it legally grows and is exported. In indonesia its used by workers who just chew on the leaf as its grows wildly. No one should take those shots. Taking 10 shots of extract a day would be similar to taking a kg of powder, but you cant take that much powder. With the extracts, you can get those "wobbles" from too high a dose which causes nausea. They also include caffiene, kava and similar additives into the mix. A small dose of powder can give you energy, mood lift and painkilling effects. High doses like 10 + grams of powder (unknowingly taken easily with shots) causes a slower more sluggish feeling. 1 tsp (2-5g) of powder at a time. After 3 grams of powder you lose all medicinal effects as theres a plateu and high doses and shots of extract get the side effects only and feel slower, wobbly and nausous. No more extracts.
Well said. Its so frustrating listening to people who abuse kratom in the worst way possible and then paint the picture that its the common experience with kratom. No, this is an outlier experience and I could use less fearmongering from people who dont take the time to learn about the substance theyre taking 10 bottles of a day of. These kind of podcasts paint such a bad picture and it effects the users who use it responsibly for years.
@@ughhstuffif you look at the alkaloid content of an OPMS shot vs their 1lb bag of powder from the same brand. It is 100x just about. Or more really, because the amount of 7 hydroxy stuff in the shot is more than in a whole 1lb bag!
Shots such badly. I went from using the leaf for years with no issues. Then at a time where life became super stressful I started with the mit45 shots. They even sponsored bodybuilding (that’s my activity) so I kid myself to the point where I would spend $100 per day easy. It’s such a massive waste you could just use leaf which is very self regulatory. It doesn’t work as well as leaf but it’s easy to get addicted to the whole process of getting and consuming these useless parasitical shots somehow become an important part of the day. It takes a while to really see how pathetic you’ve become and then to change it. Truth is you will feel shitty mentally but physically you get better every day besides the aches because you’ve stopped poisoning yourself!
Thank you for talking about this. Went through the Kratom process three times, each worse than the last. Exactly what the guest said, by far the worst 12 days of my life. No sleep, muscle aches, vomiting. Lost 15 pounds in the process of getting off “live free”, not in the good losing 15 pounds way…. It’s an easy one to find yourself in a $100+ per day habit. Day 3 into detox had to try half a bottle to taper but throwing that up helped never want to drink that again. By far the worst withdrawal ever experienced. If you want to damage yourself from drinking gas station products, drink the gas, it’s safer than Kratom.
@ I feel yah on this one. This is one of the first things I truly had to taper. For me, I could work until day 3 of tapering. As soon as I couldn’t truly take the withdrawal anymore, I’d take half a bottle. Didn’t really cure the withdrawal but it kept me from scratching my brain. Ha. Day 4, blame covid/flu for the next week. If anyone sees you, they aren’t going to question your sick. The only benefit for me when quitting this one is it hurt so bad it became a challenge I never want to visit again. A little goggins “fuck you” mentality did help but it’s relentless but I promise, it will pass. On a positive note, day 8-9 I did start to get 5-10 minutes of normal each day which helped see there was a light at the end of the tunnel. You can do it man. Many people would have quit before taking that much but we aren’t quitters! Use that on the way back out. Don’t quit trying when you’re getting off it. Your hardcore enough to be on it, I guarantee your hardcore enough to get off it.
Nah, it's not easy, you got something wrong bud. I spend 60 bucks a month, been that way for several years, never more, never less. I take it like a medication, i'm not chasing anything. 100 dollars a day is absolutely ridiculous, that's a you problem. I couldn't fathom that, the extracts don't even do anything over the ground leaf. You're paying 100+ for placebo.
I started with play pain pills from an injury that had no desire to use them. Throughout life eventually, oxymorphone found its way to me. That's a very strong pain medication to start on it may have been discontinued. Anyhow like most opiate addicts, I graduated to heroin even though I said I was too good for that I would never do it. Then IV you spend the whole fentanyl thing. In between all this I have used kratom and it does have good effects, but overall it's a negative and it's something that you can be physically dependent on and it will give you opiate withdrawals. I just got a year off until September 5th.
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
The shots are terrible I started having urinary issues started peeing every 15 minutes and lasted for months until I finally quit and had a few months off everything went back to normal
You're the first I've seen mention this. I avoid extracts but take appx 15g of powder daily. I'm 45, which may account for some of it, but I have to go a lot. Seems like I'm in a bathroom every hour. It's somewhat concerning.
Ive done all the drugs with a few occasions of addiction. Bouts with xanax and one norco addiction run anyways Kratom did me the worst. 5 years of Kratom addiction brought me to my knees and made me a complete fool. It bring legal made it impossible to get off of. So glad im done with that shit...
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
I take Kratom occasionally , I used to take 2 capsules twice a day for a couple months and I would forget someone’s on Sundays. I would always take breaks and never take more than 6 capsules in a day. I mostly quit because I stopped smoking and drugs and alcohol aren’t that fun without nicotine. I still smoke weed and haven’t been able to stop yet but I’ll get there.
Dudes!! If you're on kratom extracts try switching to a strong plain leaf and taper off that. Also Benadryl helps a lot with withdrawals!! Gabapentin and baclofen work better but use with caution cause gabapentin specifically can be very addictive but both of those are safer options than traditional benzos like Xanax or Valium
My teammate "No Tap" Dan RIP passed away due to Kratom, and I remember when Jason first said he was taking it, I tried to warn him. Im glad hes off it now.
Kratom has changed my life. Chronic pain from having to work construction my whole life and RLS. The RLS had gotten so bad I could hardly sleep. It's completely gotten rid of my RLS. I go to work everyday, pay my bills and I'm in better shape than ever. Leave kratom alone.
That's amazing for you and truly I'm happy for you. As an addict I absolutely let it ruin my life. I'm 12 days free from it and will never look back. They even ducking say ITS NOT THE SAME FOR US ALL. Stop taking it personally if it works for you and you aren't taking heaps of it multiple times a day that's great but for people with addictive personalities IT. IS. A. DRUG. And it WILL absolutely become a problem.
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
Its important to note that "free free" is a kratom EXTRACT. I have used regular kratom leaf on and off for years and have never experienced any withdrawal other than feeling a little like im getting a cold and a downturn in mood for a few days. Extracts on the other hand are something i would never get involved in, it really is a different ball-game. Just a point to note...ALWAYS avoid kratom extracts....not only is the withdrawal considerably worse but they RUIN your tolerance and you useage goes to ridiculous quantities chasing that mellow euphoric feeling.
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often? I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that. I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise. I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart. Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors. Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal. Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Great point " hey let's split in two corners and call ourselves morans" over any online opinions. Yes definitely need to find and be a better way about discussion.
Damn I’ve been stuck on this stuff for a while and I know I have to stop and have tried to ween down and seem to get nowhere. This video is the only thing on the internet that I’ve ever found that is being completely honest about what this stuff does to you. And now after watching this I am terrified to go through it to get off but I know I have to do it. My issue is that I don’t have the financial means to drop out of life for two weeks. I hate this stuff I wish I never took it.
@ArthurPerez-t2e cut down slowly. I was a heavy 30 gram a day user. If you really want to get off and are afraid of child turkey I may have a solution. Cut down 50% of what you're using right now. Deal wth the mild withdraw for 2 or 3 days. Then cut down about 25% a day for a day. The next day do the same amount. When you get down more enough you're not going to be able to sleep. Your best bet is to stop using during the day. Only use enough to be able to fall asleep for a week. Cutting down a little each night. Then 5 to 7 days you're going to have insomnia. Just know every night gets a little easier to fall asleep. It doesn't last forever. You're going to have to want it. That's the only way. The shits everywhere. You have to be serious from day 1
It's not as bad as opiate withdrawals... what makes it hard to quit is how easily you can get it. 24hrs after your last use, you'll feel uncomfortable but it's not that bad. Don't take it Friday, you'll be good by Monday
@alexberry8299 you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Your experience is anecdotal. Please keep your "thoughts" to yourself. Unless your a bot. You're probly a misinfo bot
@ArthurPerez-t2e how long and what dosage? I'm on day 11 off a 12 year habit that Got up to 60 grams a day. Completely out of control and I cold turkey'd it, which, in all honesty I wouldn't recommend BUT if you can have the discipline to do a slow taper you do NOT have to suffer like me. I just knew I couldn't.
The creep feeling of RLS is something I have and had before I ever tried Kratom. I lived with every night! Kratom has removed that from my life. I never want to go back. Doctors don't have anything that actually help RLS, Kratom has. God you people need to stay out of others lives!
I am 29 and don’t have kids, but I have 2 dogs. I can’t go to rehab, I can’t afford it money or time wise. Does anyone have any suggestions? I can do my best to taper off. Any suggestions for a tapering dose schedule?
I respect the experiences and opinions expressed here but I think you should call this A truth about kratom. I first tried kratom around fifteen years ago and still use it on occasion. I guess I'm not an addict or an addictive personality. There were times that I perhaps hammered it a bit much and felt some of the negative effects, restless legs at night, but would always lay off it when I got there. I tend to never use it more than three days in a row. I like feeling sober so when I take something I can sense the dynamic change of perspective. There have been times over the years I even forget about kratom and then think oh I could take some today for this massive bike ride. Alls to say not everyone who trys it spirals out of control into some dark space. I've never tried feel free or extracts just powder as tea.
Was 3-4 bottles a day for 6 or 7 months. Went cold turkey and it was hell for two days. I still take kratom extracts, but like 1 feel free and a can of kratom soda. Ive got off it for weeks a few times and simply tapering with capsules are the best way to stop Ive found
Leaf user for 14 years, it can also be a huge problem. Again, like they said, it absolutely depends on the person. If you can use it responsibly more power to you. If you're an addict leaf can 100% become a problem and if you use daily, like me, for long periods of time you will pay for it. beyond glad it's behind me.
30 days off kratom and man it's a monkey on my back..I love opiates and this shit grabbed me by the soul ..I'm gonna keep trying to stay away from this . Thanks for this pod
I had an old friend introduce me to it because he was using it to stay of opioids. And he did incredible amounts of it too than unexpectedly became a dad - not sure if he’s still doing it. He was a health nut otherwise.
I stumbled across Kratom soon after it became available in 2015 in the US. I found some solid info on what it was chemically, and I got some mild relief from heroin withdrawal using it. But by that point, I had 30 years experience as a heroin addict. Chemically, it was clearly just another opioid. To me, it was blatantly obvious that using Kratom was a bad move. Dodged that bullet. I hope everyone suffering from addiction finds their way to freedom.
I was hooked on OPMS Gold extract shots, the black are similar but different extract solvent stuff. When I tried the feel free stuff it wasn’t strong enough. And I was used to kava in much higher doses so it seemed like too much of a rip off. They’re all a rip off in the end. I see a bunch of comments of people freaking out because they’re not hearing a specific product get named. I guarantee the addiction in them is trying to find a defense for what product they are using, and they’re trying to create separation between their product and the one you’re speaking about. I say this as someone who is actively using Kratom and took 5-6 spoonfuls yesterday. I hate it, it is so hard to stop. Especially living alone and not having enough responsibility.
I believe that the companies making extracts/concentrates along with the brands that are adding other drugs to their powder need to be prosecuted or punished in some severe way. Something that is equal to the severity of how much they’ve distorted and ruined peoples lives. Something in me wants revenge especially on whoever is putting methadone in powder kratom products. Like I want to hurt someone over this I’m so upset. When my dad told me to be careful and taper off, and said that people are dying when they try to stop taking kratom I was like ok dad. And seriously thought ohh that’s probably a weird product or they had other stuff in their system. I finally believe it is just the kratom. My mom has told me for over a year that I look like death when I use it. And she can tell most of the time if I have been using kratom or not based off how my skin and eyes look. She said it makes me look like a meth head.
And there are 100% acute withdrawal symptoms from caffeine and nicotine what is this guy talking about. The headaches, irritable, restless, lethargic the list goes on. Try going cold turkey on caffeine or nicotine and tell me you don't notice this is some BS fr
No it's not. Stop lying to yourself and other people. Some of us have actual pharmacology education. You are wrong, and you're telling someone that their physical experience isn't real.
Bro I've been physically dependent on this green powder for like 6 years. Shits awful, it's super hard to quit because at any moment I can send an order to my house or go to a vape shop. Heroin is obviously 10x worse. But this green sludge is seriously no joke. I thought there were no withdrawals when I started, because of all the lies online. It's 10x harder to kick then caffine. Stfu
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 Even Rogan and Shaub gets things wrong, don't forget their greatest skill is comedy. Their rational thinking is not aa good S their comedy and they care more about money than spreading misinformation
I feel like Kratom is still a natural solution for people with chronic pain. I never tried it so not an advocate, definitely an addict though. Great podcast very insightful. will give Kratom a swerve unless I really need it
Listen to song of shame by HAVE HEART. I’m standing in the shower rn. I just started my day. Since I have to take about 40 probiotic gummies or capsules to have a bowel movement it starts in the bathroom. I drip about a gallon of snot from my nose and have the chills. Hair is falling out of my head. I’m going bald cause of the trace amounts of lead in the opms black I take. I’ve been begging for days off so I can kick this. In about an hour after a hot shower I’ll take 4 opms blacks with some vitamin c powder and orange juice. I’ll fall into this bullshit yet again. One day I’ll be free. Thank you for talking about this. I’m tempted to start posting about my journey so I have accountability.
The deal with the extracts are correct. I used kratom to get off Oxy. It worked for me. I have used it on and off since then. I always use dry leaves and never use the extracts. Recently while in Panama City Beach I used a 100x extract to get over a bad hangover. It worked for probably 3 hours. I could tell it was very strong.
This was really good. I don’t think some ppl know what they are getting into but on the other hand some ppl know and if you can take whatever it is in moderation then it’s not a problem but for a lot of us it’s all or nothing and that doesn’t work out. I think it’s how we are wired maybe idk
lifelong hardcore alky ,dipsomaniac drunkard and substance abuser "Half of my life I spent doin' time for some other fucker's crime The other half found me stumbling 'round drunk on Burgundy wine But I'll get back on my feet again someday The good Lord willin' If He says I may I know that the life I'm livin's no good I'll get a new start, live the life I should I'll get up and fly away"Jerry Garcia / Robert Hunter
Anyone else remember Kratom from like 20 yrs ago? Back then there was a forum online with a few vendors you could buy from out of their homes. They would get it straight from the source in Asia. Nothing fancy, just plain leaf that often you had to make into powder at home. Shipments would be seized at customs sometimes. I stopped taking it for yrs, and was shocked the first time I saw it at smoke shops
There’s over 500 scientific studies done on Kratom itself. NIDA has set aside $100 million to study it. There’s 0 scientific studies done on Kratom and kava extract mixed together 1:08:21
I am currently dealing with feel free addiction, 30 years old with a 1 year old daughter and it’s ruining my life. We carry it where I work and it’s gotten to the point where I’m taking several a day sometimes up to 10 bottles. I’ve struggled with addiction for a majority of my life and my experience with Kratom extracts parallels other substances. I really needed to hear this podcast today. I unfortunately can’t afford to miss work, or afford treatment, so I think I’ll start to taper today. Thank you guys for this trully. You have no idea how much i needed to hear this. Transparency like this saves lives
@@AnsonWoods-e2t good luck brother. Do it for your child! It’s worth the discomfort just think about her being 5, or 10 and you being an addict still, or unalived. I was addicted to drugs and alcohol for 20 years, at the end I was taking 8-10 30 mg oxys a day.
7 years clean now. The first 6 months is gonna be a nightmare. But it’s worth it brother! DO IT!! 💪
Agmatine is sold as a pre-workout supplement and it helps with opioid withdrawal. It's not magic but it helps a little bit.
Brother...I was doin 3-4 bottles of the 'Feel Freeze' and about 25-35g of Kratom/day as well.
I took the weekend and cut it cold turkey. It was pretty WILD. Couldnt sleep for about 4 days and after that it SLOWLY came back. But a week later I was still exhausted!
I workout/lift 5 days/wk. I mtn and roaf bike pretty frequently and was seriously shocked at how badly I withdrawled.
Im 6 week clean and havent done anything else as I had quit drinking when I began freefree and kratom 2yrs ago.
Best of luck brother. Gotta just say phuck it, Im all in, and do it! I have 2 girls as well...do it for your little one.
look for a recovery group in your area…be good to yourself…you’re not alone.
You got this friend
Dont be afraid to quit because of this guy's story. You can taper off and be affected by withdraw symptoms a lot less. His experience is from heavy long term use and quitting cold turkey. There are plenty of different tapering off strategies. Don't let his story ever scare you. No matter how bad it feels during the withdraw the sense of accomplishment you get fun quitting outweighs the bad by a million
Agreed . I backed myself back from way to much. I definitely wouldn’t go cold turkey that’s crazy.
I've been tapering off slowly but surely for the last couple months, during one of the more difficult periods of my life on top of everything. Tapering off is much more likely to succeed than quitting cold turkey for me personally. Used to take 4.5 gram doses probably 5-6+ times per day, and now at 2.3 gram doses maybe 4x a day.
@thedude130 if you hit a roadblock don't go over what your taking at the time. I needed to stay at a dose for a few days bc it got too intense.
I’ve quit 4 times so far. Tells you how easy it is to taper off and restart lol addict moves
@@billsny9243 just give yourself grace it’s easy for everyone to taper. This stuff is no joke.
kratom extracts like Feel Free and OPMS are WAYYYYY worse than regular leaf
Absolutely! Huge difference
"Regular Leaf" AKA taking 20 capsules and thinking it's normal.
Correct.
@@UpriseMusic 20 capsules is not normal. Just a tsp of powder. 2-4 g
It is for addicts. 20 pills three times a day for ppl who struggle with wanting to be high as possible all day long.@ughhstuff
the leaf is entirely different than the extracts. its like comparing coca leaves to coke. making it into a tea is the traditional way and is way safer.
Correct. It’s not comparable. It’s like saying THC-O is the same as some regular marijuana.
STAY AWAY FROM EXTRACTS!!!
So important. Lose kratom does not let me abuse it, its physically impossible essentially. Get sweaty and vomit any time ive tried loll
@ Facts. That’s whole-leaf powders built-in safety mechanism
What's the difference
@@Juicememelord extracts are concentrated version of powder. Put simply, beer vs moonshine.
I just buy a couple of kilos of the plain powder and it lasts for a few months. 70$ each so it’s not to expensive. I choose to take it because it helped me get off the much more harmful drugs and especially the worst for me was alcohol so kratom is a better option. I even have a large kratom tree in my backyard that I planted five years ago. It’s definitely addictive and withdraws suck but to me it’s not a problem with this addiction.
Guys, this literally came out the day after my first full day off from kratom. For three years I lied to myself, and believed it was responsible for getting me off of opioids. Thank you all for sharing. This means a lot to me, and I’m sure others feel the same way.
Is it not better than potentially getting aids from dirty needles?
@@Ctpg93Don't be retarded. The point is to get shit into control.
Congrats so glad kratom helped you.
6:09
I was addicted to FDA approved pain pills, benzos and muscle relaxers for 11 years straight.
I got fired from chronic pain management in April 2019. After that, I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was searching for a new pain management doctor.
In June 2019, whilst in cocaine withdrawal, I watched that documentary “A Leaf of Faith.” My journey with Kratom began the very next day.
Kratom shut that “I need one more snort, one more pill, one more escape” noise off in my brain. It allowed me to work on my whys of addiction. I have not been back to pain management in over 5 years.
I am a functioning member of society again. I am a thriving mother again. I am no longer a burden to my kids. I will be forever grateful and thankful that I accidentally found lab-tested whole-leaf powder Kratom.
I now pass on my journey, wisdom and science to help those struggling with addiction, chronic pain, anxiety and depression.
Yours truly, Kratom advocate/activist from Colorado est. 2019.
love to hear it
@@thateabishhh Ty for being an advocate. my husband had a failed back surgery with all the hardware. In 1998 .. The doctor still gave him pain pills to be comfortable until Trump put the Cruck down on doctors prescribing pain meds. and the doctor would prescribe less and less every visit until he got zero meds.. His Quailty of life went down until kratom I am forever grateful to know about this herb esp when one can t really trust the medical system they let my hubby down in so many ways🤢
Kratom is the only thing that has ever made me not crave alcohol and that effect for me has continued to work at low doses of 3-5 grams daily for the last 6 years of sobriety from alcohol. I take it like a maintenence medication and I am vastly healthier now than I have been at any other point of my life. The issue I have with Jason and this episode is that abusing tf out of extracts is not like taking reasonable doses of powdered leaf. It's like someone having a heart attack after abusing thousands of mgs of caffeine daily for months and taking to online to be like " 'AVE YOU GUYYYS 'EARD OF THIS COFFEE STUFF??? BAD NEWWWWS, MATE!!!"
@@thateabishhh discount code?
I tried that and it isn't working. I've been an addict for most of my life too. Pain pills, meth, alcohol, and everything else. I got completely sober for 5 years.
I've been abusing kratom for a few years now. I don't want to do other drugs, but I can't stop. I've started waking up with withdrawals in the middle of the night. It also and to be affecting my kidneys according to recent bloodwork. Be very careful who you give this advice to. There is no one size fits all for anything to do with the human body, whether it be addiction or diet, etc.
I'm glad you found a path that works for you. I wish it did for me. I don't seem to have the willpower to control it. You're very fortunate.
Is there a certain strain or type you use that's not hard on the kidneys?
Here's my sign to get off this demon.
@@F3lloww go to quittingkratom subreddit. Get ready for hell but it’s temporaey
Battled Kratom addiction for around a decade. I even went to Prison for being involved in a protest/riot and was clean for 2 years while in. It’s sold everywhere and if I’m being honest
I LOVE IT. Don’t do it but if you do limit it to once or twice a WEEK
I was hooked to kratom. Call me a pussy. It was hard to get off of cold turkey. I was taking 3-4 spoon fulls every few hours. I would order it by the kilo. I had to cut kratom and benzodiazepine and an anti depressant Cymbalta cold turkey all at once. I thought I was going insane!! The detox was horrible. I’m good now.
I feel you Jason. It’s not easy.
Damn. Good job dude.
Good job. The other things are even tougher than kratom
@@Tincanbanana3030 Not necessarily. Some varieties of Kratom are not only Opioid but also Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors and Dopamine Agonists among other things. Depending on what kind and how much you use, it becomes a poly-drug withdrawal syndrome. Multiple overlapping withdrawals from the different types of alkaloids at the same time. Especially when people are using liquid extracts, it can be just as bad.
@@Tincanbanana3030 much harder
Benzos are for sure the hardest to quit cold turkey out of all those. I didn't sleep for 3 days and everytime I closed my eyes and layer down my head would start spinning like when you're drunk right before you puke and as soon as I opened my eyes it stopped. Benzos are no joke
As a fellow kratom extract addict who is now almost 2 years sober from them, this is the single best podcast I’ve heard that summarizes what kratom addiction is like. Thank you, Jason, for using your platform to educate people on how serious this addiction is.
Sounds like a job for RFK Jr. Scary stuff, glad you're all ok to talk about the issue🙏💪
I take the capsules. Full handful like 16, 3 or 4 times a day. No one knows.
@@sallieharer9407 even the powder and capsules are super addictive. I was addicted to leaf powder before I started extracts. It’s a helluva drug.
@@Reegs44r1 I hope he does ban it so I can stop
@@sallieharer9407I'm doing the same thing, and the extracts too. They are so expensive. I'm ashamed of myself.
I started Kratom because I quit drinking and I needed something to get through social situations and that shit worked perfectly. Then I realized my workouts were way more intense when I took Kratom so I started doing it for that also.....yada yada I ended up doing it 2 to 3 times a day for 4 years. Finally tried to quit and it was the hardest thing I ever quit and I've quite booze and nicotine. It took me 6 weeks to completely get over the ache in my bones. the withdrawl was crazy harsh. I've been off it for about a year now and still off booze and nicotine. I do smoke weed still :)
Did the same thing brah!
Quit drinkin, loved it as a social lubricant. But wound up using every day like coffee and after 2yrs I just quit.
What a major pain in the ass that was! Couldnt do my physical job. Walked around the block with my dog like a damn zombie. It was inSANE how hard it was...only 6 wks out. Never goin back. Sober AF...except smokless tobacco.
Good work BTW!
I'm in same boat. My stomach hurts from all the capsules I take. My joints kill if I don't take it
@@sallieharer9407Do you have somebody you can confide in??
@@sallieharer9407 the joint and back pain and insane. I actually changed beds because I couldn't sleep from the pain. It just keeps getting worse also so the only way out is to quit.
@@nicholaskoenig3106 thanks bro! Keep it up the good work .
I’ve been a drug addict my entire life, I’m 37. My story is so similar to Jason’s as far as drug use. Alcohol Xanax Cocaine Crack Meth Heroin all of it. Acid mushrooms ecstasy ketamine weed pills etc. My last addiction was Kratom, 3 years on, 1 year clean from it. This is by far the best depiction of its issues I’ve come across. Kratom was terrible for me personally and my mind is now clear and free from that garbage sludge.
Maybe the extract is more of a problem
There's nothing dangerous about raw leaf kratom. These guys are talking about feel frees and the extract drinks that are barely kratom. Extracts are 100% the problem
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 while extracts are definitely MORE of the problem, the powder can be bad too. I quit off 50 grams per day and it was very bad. and yes, that's a dumb af amount but i'm not the only one. there are people who get up to 100 gpd. extracts basically remove all guardrails.
I would think so considering tons of them also have Kava Kava, which adds even more to the already potency of it. Its pretty impossible for (myself at least) to take to much kratom. If I try to abuse it I get sweaty and vomit and yup. Ive never really been able to take more than 2-3 teaspoons a day. But then again, addicts are addicts they'll figure out a way I'm sure.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the leaf can still be highly addicting
IDK. Extracts concentrate the active ingredients, yeah. But you can suffer from serious alcoholism, and only drink beer. Opium is not less addictive than heroin, only less concentrated. IDK.
Good on y'all for speaking on this and spreading awareness on the downside of Kratom. I have no doubt Jason could have had some very lucrative sponsorships from any large Kratom company. Shows his character that he wasn't willing to sellout.
Deonside huh who's that mate a black guy athlete or some shisa
This would be so helpful if they highlighted that extracts ARE SOLD AS KRATOM BUT ARE NOT KRATOM
I agree there might be adulteration in some cases, but for the most part they are just kratom extract and some of them have also kava kava. Kratom alkaloids are very strong and now they isolate some of the stronger ones like 7-OH-Mitragynine which is stronger than Morphine. It's not something anyone should be taking on a regular basis unless they have real debilitating chronic pain that outweighs the risks.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 kratom pusher
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937 stronger than morphine, lmao. kratom feels weaker than codeine. Never understood how anyone gets addicted to this crap.
@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 just a label saying this is very addictive. Not everyone knows what kratom is. This way is straightforward
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 the extracts are crazy, they make you sick. Very different than taking 3 pills here and there
s/o Jason for being honest about his addiction, you’re literally saving lives…
Kratom addict here. But I wouldn’t touch those concentrates! Yeah, I need to quit, but it keeps me going. I appreciate the show Jason, it’s got my wheels turning a bit.
I have never done am extract, but I have done a number of kilos over the last 5 years. The extracts are a different animal. The powder is more self limiting because it tastes disgusting every single time.
6 years of daily mit45 black shots. Heavy extracts. I’m spending 600 to 800 a week. Kratom was amazing in the start. So was heroin and cocaine. I’m not comparing them, but I will say things started the same and devolved the same as well
Jesus 600-800 dollars a week on kratom? 😮
bro thats more than anyone spends on weed. Like the only ppl spending more on weed are like Snoop and Wizz. Relax bro get off that shit and hit the bong. Shit's gonna be better for you long-term just based off usage volume alone.
Sounds more like poor life choices, take some responsibility
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139yeah not all cases I started taking it because I have arthritis in my back and after a few years of going to the dr they got me know where and the pain was so bad I was going to just end it all I’m only spending 70 dollars every month but I have to take it otherwise I can’t move and unfortunately I need to work
Yeah the extracts got nuts. I was spending a shit ton on them and was just chasing the tolerance
When it comes to alcohol,heroin,speed or opiates, i completely lose control. I have been using kratom for six years, as a substitute more or less, and its been working for me. I get the same amount about every month. I dont always want a bigger dose like i have been with other things. Definitely have experienced some withdrawel at points but overall, im happy to have it.
This, I get the same exact amount every month and it's always the same dose for 5 years. It's a lesser evil. I'm also not chasing a high, it just keeps me even. Something nobody ever talks about is the immune system boost you get from it, I haven't been sick in 5 years. I'll start to get a cold or flu, and it's gone within hours. I mean it costs 2 dollar a day, that's not even one mcdouble.
Kratom powder and extracts are also very different.
@@littlewigglemonster7691 it’s important for people not to confuse the two. These 3 guys are mostly talking about extracts. I use it on average every other day and never had the withdrawal symptoms they are talking about with plain leaf
Harm reduction. Just avoid extracts and shots
Been doing kratom for over 8 years every day. Got to a point I was doing 60 grams a day for prolly 2-4 years. Slowly started cutting back with some speed bumps of doing a bunch again but now I’m at 9-12 grams a day. It’s sucks cutting back. Muscle spasms and feeling like dirt. But I gotta keep cutting.
We got this. I’m in the same boat but getting there
@ yeah man! Stay positive!
Bros shits are probably hard as cement no homo
Proud of ya. I’m to 9.5 on my taper from a zip a day. Let’s go homie 😊
@ F yeah!
Please mention that extracts(like feel free) are significantly more dangerous than regular kratom.
I’ve used a few scoops of powder 4 days a week for a few years and haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms when I take a break. I’ve known people who’ve needed Suboxone to kick Kratom. It’s not to be played with by everyone, if you have a history with opioids stay away.
Right? I think the few times a week is the key. I use it like every other day, sometimes none all week. Just use it when I have a long boring task to finish, like painting a wall lol a little jungle juice and I paint that shit in half the time
People like you are the exception to the rule of "Opioids cause addiction and dependence" as a rule. Your experience isn't helpful for people that can develop an addiction to Opioids (most people).
@@corneliusthecrowtamer1937everyone can get addicted to opiates/opiods, nobody is except. It could be the breaks during the week, maybe he's getting bogus stuff or it's Shaub/Rogan's fake account spreading misinformation to make a dollar
its nothing compared to the extracts like the 7ohmz pills
Change the title. The truth about kratom EXTRACTS
Not sure what year I first discovered Kratom, but at that time there was almost no US vendors. I bought it from Indonesia. I'm so surprised to see how common it is now. You definitely have to tread lightly with it, though. Especially since it's so readily available now. I try to use it only a few times a month. There's been a few times that I've caught myself taking it more often, just gotta try to reel it in when that happens. I've been heroin-free for 25 years.
My guy! I started in 2014 and did the exact same thing
Haha, you may recognize my logo, I was one of the first importers in the states.
@@ughhstuff have you ever wondered how many lives you destroyed and how much misery you were responsible for?
@@scarab9762 No. I only sell powder. Selling extract is unethical.
@@scarab9762 Ive gotten many gifts, letters and tons of apprecieation and since I only sell powder,no extracts. I dont believe I caused any misery, I know that kratom has helped many of the clients for numerous things. Seems like you just have an addictive personality and abuse it.
I think the title of this episode should be changed to “The Truth About Extract Kratom”
Like it’s said @ 57:04 these extracts are way stronger than leaf/powder. That said, not all consumes of kratom are addicted to it & have to take more & more.
Extract kratom is a whole different ball game than plain leaf/powder kratom. Don’t get it twisted, people.
Kratom saves lives.
Ive secretly started again... and i havent told anyone. And in doing it again at night. And during the day. I know im at 4 or 5 again. And i know its starting to have a major effect again. And i know better....
Addiction sucks, I’m here if you need to vent. Good luck brother
I believe in you. You can get off it and stay off it
You can do it. You are self aware. You know you will feel so much better and free after you go a few days without. Just a few days and the suffering will be over my dude. You got this.
Just suffer through it now. You know you will eventually quit at some point when it gets even worse. Don’t lose the next 5 years or more of your life like I did. I wish I suffered sooner. Also, it will only get worse because you will be taking more, guarantee it. Good luck, my friend.
Feel Free is Kava and Kratom. No wonder y'all were having such bad withdrawals. Kratom is one thing, but you're mixing it with Kava, which is way more potent.
@@beastmerc84 kava is not way more potent. It’s just another thing that’s similar to kratom.
Absolutely...Way more potent
It’s not more potent. It’s just a different drug. IMO mixing Kratom with kava is stupid. They’re very different drugs and the interaction is getting massively sick! Plus kava is a little liver toxic. Kratom is not for most people. However, add them together. I could see that being more problematic.
@@corneliusparkin2401 Kratom extract is way more dangerous n way more toxic, stronger on all levels...Trust me, it's no good!!
@corneliusparkin2401 Makes sense.
Saying exposing Kratom is probably not the best way to word this video. We do not need more regulation. That said you should tell the truth. Kratom is addictive. But it has its uses and it shouldn’t be regulated. Especially in a world where it’s way too easy to get fentanyl.
They will get it banned guaranteed
Withdrawal sucks but it’s usually four bad days then a blah week. Sleep can be messed up for a month. This is coming off 30gpd of powdered leaf for a few years.
Extracts are way harder. Switch to leaf then taper a few weeks, then the cold turkey is way easier.
4 days was my experience also
@ those four days can be so awful depending on amounts taken, but it’s def doable. The first time I quit when I was rly heavily using I couldn’t move those 4 days. I would just sit in my yard in a chair trying to absorb son and not puke 🤮
Great listen and knowledge. As someone in recovery groups , This will at least give me the information to tell anyone who is going through this. Thanks TJ for you take on the word "sober" .. and Yes it's highly misused..
Thanks, Rob. My name is actually Noah. I'm not sure where or how TJ got in there 🤷♂️😜 The WhatsApp recovery group has totally blown my mind how meaningful and powerful it is. I didn't think that could happen virtually, but it's a very connected group of humans.
@Urbeezy thanks for replying Noah. I'm grateful that stuff wasn't around when I got into recovery this time . I did stuff for the effect , and not wanting to feel the feelings.. In or out of my rooms if anyone would have suggested Kratom , may have try it but I never did a little of anything. 6 months in , I thought I became a Rastafari , smoke pot and get spiritual, find my higher purpose. I knew that's b.s. because I didn't like where I was at.. and I definitely would have forgotten the spiritual side.. I'm an addict, alcoholic, that's really my truth and grateful there is solution.
Thanks again , now I have a tool if I meet anyone who is going through Kratom addiction.. ❤️🙌🙏😎
Anyone struggling with Feel Free, put that sh!t down, pick up whole-leaf lab-tested powder and be ready for change then taper off that if that’s what your goal is 1:20:01
I feel like there is a limbo of sorts when someone is trying to stop. Where the reality of them ordering lab tested kratom is very slim. Most of the time, someone will just keep getting what the store has to offer. I have good mind to believe that even the powder kratom in vape shops has methadone or some other addictive opioid/chemical in it. Because it is unregulated they get away with it, and the legal trouble isn’t as bad as you’d think. So the ability to taper off with whole
Leaf powder kratom is harder than it was 5 years ago.
I wish that the kava bar culture started the kratom culture in America and not gas stations and vape shops. There would be more awareness and understanding of what people were doing.
@@MalinoisDoodleMischief find a good vendor. There are no adulterants in regular powder and most vendors online test each batch. The gas station powder is very poor quality.
I took kratom daily for years. It caused so many issues. I first started when people said it wasn't addictive and wasn't an opioid. Which are both untrue. I would wake up sad and anxious then take some. Would immediately get a head fog. At work midway I would come down and feel weird. I thought I was depressed so got on anti depressants but it ended up compounding the side effects. I stopped and my brain felt like it just rebooted. Recently I tried kratom again just to see and I immediately saw all the side effects come back and little mood increase. The stuff is scary and not worth it unless you happen to be the one that can take it now and then.
Honestly I take kratom and I have spurts where I let it get out of hand. But I have restless leg syndrome and add and when I compare kratom to what doctors give me it's a life saver I feel people abusing it is were problems begin. Maybe it's best if you have zero self control not to take it.. I love hearing more information from others so GREAT POD JASON!
It's all about discipline. If you have chronic inflammation and pain it is a life saver and a very good medicine. If you are an addict it is easy to abuse. I'll never discredit it's medicinal uses. I've seen horror stories and miracles from this herb. I'm grateful it's available
As a 10 year kratom user who just quit last month for the third time, due to being stuck in the hospital as a consequence of digestive issues (Which I STRONGLY believe were related to, or even directly caused by my kratom use…) I’d advise… if you’re someone with an addictive personality, stay away from this stuff like your life depends on it.
I spent money I didn’t have, wrecked my digestive system/liver, and suffered many other serious consequences, just like any other addiction. No one should downplay the effects of a substance that powerfully acts directly on your opioid receptors. I had withdrawals similar to that of opiates everytime I’ve stopped… and it was hell. End of discussion. We don’t need to compare it to heroin. We don’t need to compare it to benzodiazepines. It’s bad enough on its own, I’m tellin you.
There are folks on here claiming that the leaf powder is somehow better. The only difference is that it's cheaper. It's still addictive. It's a toxic plant for those who struggle with addiction, and I have news. If you have to take it everyday then you struggle with addiction too, whether pills or extracts. People can sniff coke everyday which isn't as life harming as crack, but it's still addiction.
False. Id say its about as risky as st john wart. Its been used for centuries in east asia, however, extract is illegal there. If you have addict behaviors it doesnt matter the substance.
Went from +50gm. of ground leaf a day down to currently 2gm. Next step is zero... forever. Down regulating this stuff is WAY easier than other things I've gotten clean from.
Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium help a lot.
I have heard nothing good about this drug. Glad Jason is man enough to talk about the hard stuff
...
This is hardly a drug. These people are wack and this information doesn't hold up to my personal experiences and those of people I know. Saying kratom is the worse withdrawal is completely insane. Insane.
@@Tincanbanana3030 nah you're wrong. the thing is most people never get to the level of the use that will cause harsh withdraws. if you've used for 2+ years and take 30g+ per day you WILL have tough withdrawals. extracts make it even easier. for some people it takes less than that. and i mean about 1-2 weeks of cold sweats and no sleep, and then months of getting back to normal. especially if you have no support in other areas of your life. btw it's valid to have a positive opinion on kratom, but the denial you're showing hurts everybody. if you don't believe me, there's countless discussions online you can read.
@@Tincanbanana3030 yeah it's stupid.
@@Tincanbanana3030 I mean, we can acknowledge as adults that everyone is different, right? And just because your experience doesn't align with what's said in the video, I see no harm in putting a warning out there that clearly A LOT Of people do have bad, bad experiences.
The withdrawal is bad. I get rls at night if I don't take it. I just started taking for energy, and now I can't stop.
How much are you taking?
@smokenmonkeyco6201 I'm not sure. The capsules are killing my guts. I get 500 capsules and take in a week
@@sallieharer9407 its really not that hard. Dint psyche yourself out
Me too clean from opiates since 2012 and clean from subs since 2018 and about a year ago a work mate had kratom and I tried some cause. He said he takes it for energy and we worked night shift so I did some it gave me energy never knew how addictive it was. Didn’t know how hard it was to get off the shit damn near, cried myself asleep one night realizing that it’s just like opiates trying to get off of it!! Fast forward to present day instead of taking the kratom which I tried to go cold turkey but said fuck it and said let’s just do a quarter of a Suboxone today. It’s better than taking shitty ass kratom cause that shit is nasty so now I’m back to doing subs a quarter a day which isn’t bad and I feel like Suboxone is your come off often kratom in my experience everybody’s different. I just wish to God that I had known how addictive they were. I would’ve never ate my first pill and I did the capsules and I was eating damn near 50 a day but I do think doing subs is way better than the alternativeand a quarter day won’t be too hateful to get off of
u should look into a treatment program i think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to this substance. had no idea it was so strong. ellis has done every drug there is and even he says he would have gone to rehab if he had known how bad the symptoms of withdrawl were
Hey guys just went through the comments before I'm going to listen to this. I've been taking kratom for 15 years. Not on and off but on the entire time I'm terrified of stopping even before there was any information about it. Reading all the comments of people who stopped is amazing. I hope I get the balls to watch this and/or listen.
Just keep taking it honestly. I have taken it many times day for six years but it’s cheap and don’t feel like going through withdrawals again. Was addicted to pain pills and then H from 16-34 and alcohol about killed me many times. I will take this anytime over the other crap that I was doing.
Im gonna drink a half gallon of fkn vodka and say its a horrible thing totally Not My Fault. Use ya brain folks
Dude said he took 1 shot every three hours and took 8-10 a day? Something's not adding up. We all got the same 24 lol
3 x 8 is 24 there solved it for ya
@@Consumer0001 😂😂😂
Not sure what kind of math you are doing, but take 1 every 3 hours equals 8 in a 24 hour period lol
Thanks for this. I’d been off drinking/hard drugs for a few years and turned to this after seeing it advertised as the healthy drinking alternative. Had me acting like a junky within 6 months..
This is crazy. Everything in here is exactly what im going through. I tried to stop for 2 days and felt so bad like hes saing, on the inside, had every symptom of a blood infection, so thats what i thought it was. I told myself this cant just be withdrawals. And i was seing this new girl so i was thinking maybe its a std. The doctor came back and said everything's good, not dehydrated or nothing. She said all she could do is prescribe me rest. Its so hard to stop man. I wish I had never started.
Currently struggling with kicking the kratom. Done it for years cuz I did opioids for 10 years. Hard as hell. Good on ya Ellis it's tough
@JustinHenke-b2y You got this, man. I think you're taking it seriously bc you started with opioid and are now stepping it down.
I got sick of kratom eventually, and that's kinda what it takes. Keep it up! Cut back a little at a time, and as soon as you feel that taking kratom is a waste of time. That's when ur free.
I went through the withdrawals 3 times before I finally kicked it. Since you're familiar with opioids, it's just as their guest explained, but it does get easier. I was lucky enough to have a good wife.
@codypickell9299 I've never met ur wife, but I have looked up "keeper" in the dictionary, and I saw her picture.
She cares about you a lot m8. Good on ya!
@@JustinHenke-b2y you can do it bro. It’s not easy. Good luck!
You me same. Fuggin dr drop me like a rock. Been on the Kratom and now the new stuff is low grade heroin in a shot. I’m gonna ween.
I had the same experience- full-on opium/heroin like withdrawals from Kratom 2 different times. Extracts are dangerous. The only difference is that I knew it was a bad addiction
@hosswilder9885 what kind of extracts were you taking? Caps or drinks/ how many?
@@smokenmonkeyco6201 weird my original reply to your comment was deleted?
It went from regular Kratom to King Kratom powder extract then to all the OPMS products to quitting for a year and then going straight to the source- 7-Hydroxymitragynine pills.
Just recently quit that shit again
@hosswilder9885 i just found the 7 H and I'm kinda wishing I didn't..those things are no joke. Heavily considering quitting after listening to this and all I've read about 7H and Feel Free. I've been OPMS black's, bitch for a while now.
When I quit the pills the second time around it was about 7 days of severe irritability and depression.
nothing like the first time I quit which was like a mix of both of these guys stories--Full on physical withdrawal for 2 weeks and a 3rd week of being wiped out and drained and having lowered my immune system, I caught COVID at the same time.
Get off while you can, sooner the better.
What do you consider full-on heroin like withdrawals? I've never done kratom extract, but the withdrawals from 9ish grams of powder, 4-6 times a day for 6-12 months and my withdrawals were extremely minor. Absolutely nothing even remotely close to heroin withdrawl.
Wild that this guy thinks the only use for kratom is to get high and thats what he eas doing so that must be what everyone else is doing. Shift your perspective man, this shit helps people
so frustrating to read all these people misusing it and exceeding the amount by 10x and then blaming kratom. They have no idea that it has been a life saver for many.
Yeah man. Those shots with extract are far from the powdered version of the plant. The process of creating extract used in those shots changes the chemical composition and is actually illegal in Indonesia in its extract form. Extract creates a tolerance and you should never use extract more than 2x a week w a few day in between to use it eithout negative effects. I never use extracts. But if you stayed with a tsp of the powdered leaf like the other guy started with, you would have never have these issues. Extract shots is about 20x the active ingredient of the plant plus the byproducts of creating an extract. Extract creates a tolerance almost instantly and results in it being less effective if taken a second time. If you stay with powdered leaf (not these extract shots) you would have never had these issues. So youre adding to the misinformation. You ever smoke herb in flower form? That would be like powdered kratom, The concentrates and dabs and edibles would be like those shots you got into and effect you different from the original plant as its highly processed into crystals. Stay away from liquid kratom (extract) and use the powder. 2grams (a tsp) a couple times a day of powder is the therapeutic dose with no side effects. Sorry to hear about your struggles, but if you research kratom, the info is out there. The way you used the bottles of extract is the worst way possible to utilize any benefits from kratom.
addded reply from below: These liquid extracts are very different from kratom powder because its adulterated into a stronger form through procssing with ETOH. It can be from 10-50x stronger and instantly creates tolerance. Totally different drug and it should be seperated from "kratom" in its powdered form. Its like having a natural vanilla stick with its mild natural flavor and then compare it to vanilla extract. 1 drop is about 3-4 sticks of natura vanilla. 1 KG of kratom makes about 30 grams of extract and extract is made from leaves that are often less fresh or or poor quality as you cant see the ingredients. Plus its not regulated and the processing into extract is done stateside as its illegal to export it in extract form. Similar to turning liquid ketamine to powder, opium resin to heroin or coke to crack if that clarifies. Please stick with powder and avoid shots of kratom. Plus its not regulated and the processing into extract is done stateside as its illegal to export it in extract form. The correct solution is banning extract and allowing powder like they do in Indonesia, the only place it legally grows and is exported. In indonesia its used by workers who just chew on the leaf as its grows wildly. No one should take those shots. Taking 10 shots of extract a day would be similar to taking a kg of powder, but you cant take that much powder. With the extracts, you can get those "wobbles" from too high a dose which causes nausea. They also include caffiene, kava and similar additives into the mix. A small dose of powder can give you energy, mood lift and painkilling effects. High doses like 10 + grams of powder (unknowingly taken easily with shots) causes a slower more sluggish feeling. 1 tsp (2-5g) of powder at a time. After 3 grams of powder you lose all medicinal effects as theres a plateu and high doses and shots of extract get the side effects only and feel slower, wobbly and nausous. No more extracts.
Well said. Its so frustrating listening to people who abuse kratom in the worst way possible and then paint the picture that its the common experience with kratom. No, this is an outlier experience and I could use less fearmongering from people who dont take the time to learn about the substance theyre taking 10 bottles of a day of. These kind of podcasts paint such a bad picture and it effects the users who use it responsibly for years.
@@yarrahboko2486 100%
@@ughhstuffif you look at the alkaloid content of an OPMS shot vs their 1lb bag of powder from the same brand. It is 100x just about. Or more really, because the amount of 7 hydroxy stuff in the shot is more than in a whole 1lb bag!
Shots such badly. I went from using the leaf for years with no issues. Then at a time where life became super stressful I started with the mit45 shots. They even sponsored bodybuilding (that’s my activity) so I kid myself to the point where I would spend $100 per day easy. It’s such a massive waste you could just use leaf which is very self regulatory. It doesn’t work as well as leaf but it’s easy to get addicted to the whole process of getting and consuming these useless parasitical shots somehow become an important part of the day. It takes a while to really see how pathetic you’ve become and then to change it. Truth is you will feel shitty mentally but physically you get better every day besides the aches because you’ve stopped poisoning yourself!
Thank you for talking about this. Went through the Kratom process three times, each worse than the last. Exactly what the guest said, by far the worst 12 days of my life. No sleep, muscle aches, vomiting. Lost 15 pounds in the process of getting off “live free”, not in the good losing 15 pounds way…. It’s an easy one to find yourself in a $100+ per day habit. Day 3 into detox had to try half a bottle to taper but throwing that up helped never want to drink that again. By far the worst withdrawal ever experienced. If you want to damage yourself from drinking gas station products, drink the gas, it’s safer than Kratom.
After 12 hours without I get full body convulsions. I have to quit kratom, but I also have to work.
I hate this.
@ I feel yah on this one. This is one of the first things I truly had to taper. For me, I could work until day 3 of tapering. As soon as I couldn’t truly take the withdrawal anymore, I’d take half a bottle. Didn’t really cure the withdrawal but it kept me from scratching my brain. Ha. Day 4, blame covid/flu for the next week. If anyone sees you, they aren’t going to question your sick. The only benefit for me when quitting this one is it hurt so bad it became a challenge I never want to visit again. A little goggins “fuck you” mentality did help but it’s relentless but I promise, it will pass. On a positive note, day 8-9 I did start to get 5-10 minutes of normal each day which helped see there was a light at the end of the tunnel. You can do it man. Many people would have quit before taking that much but we aren’t quitters! Use that on the way back out. Don’t quit trying when you’re getting off it. Your hardcore enough to be on it, I guarantee your hardcore enough to get off it.
Pussy
Nah, it's not easy, you got something wrong bud. I spend 60 bucks a month, been that way for several years, never more, never less. I take it like a medication, i'm not chasing anything. 100 dollars a day is absolutely ridiculous, that's a you problem. I couldn't fathom that, the extracts don't even do anything over the ground leaf. You're paying 100+ for placebo.
I started with play pain pills from an injury that had no desire to use them. Throughout life eventually, oxymorphone found its way to me. That's a very strong pain medication to start on it may have been discontinued. Anyhow like most opiate addicts, I graduated to heroin even though I said I was too good for that I would never do it. Then IV you spend the whole fentanyl thing. In between all this I have used kratom and it does have good effects, but overall it's a negative and it's something that you can be physically dependent on and it will give you opiate withdrawals.
I just got a year off until September 5th.
I was eating 25 in the morning and at night
Still struggling myself trying to get off kratom, i dont and never have used extracts. Huge inspiration seeing all the people who have got off in the comments. 🙏
The shots are terrible I started having urinary issues started peeing every 15 minutes and lasted for months until I finally quit and had a few months off everything went back to normal
You're the first I've seen mention this. I avoid extracts but take appx 15g of powder daily. I'm 45, which may account for some of it, but I have to go a lot. Seems like I'm in a bathroom every hour. It's somewhat concerning.
As in my case a lot of people don't get help or admit drug addiction because fear of losing career and not able to go to rehab
Ive done all the drugs with a few occasions of addiction. Bouts with xanax and one norco addiction run anyways Kratom did me the worst.
5 years of Kratom addiction brought me to my knees and made me a complete fool. It bring legal made it impossible to get off of. So glad im done with that shit...
This drug was worse than my heroin addiction regarding withdrawal. Not the acute, but the post acute withdrawal because it's so long so so hard it made relapse almost inescapable. When you couple that when the availability and the legality and the price (as it was the powder at 1st) I had time off but mostly on in the 3 years I. Even struggling with this. Last run I got addicted to sima 300 which was a bag of heroin in a bottle. I always rationalized that because I wasn't stealing, lying, and didn't think it was gonna kill me it always seemed an option. Those shots opened up a brain pathway just like heroin. I started lying and stealing immediately and 113 days ago I almost died as my blood pressure was 186/119 and rising. I returned to a 12 step program and I'm happy about that because I'm learning a lot about me. It's poison.
I take Kratom occasionally , I used to take 2 capsules twice a day for a couple months and I would forget someone’s on Sundays. I would always take breaks and never take more than 6 capsules in a day. I mostly quit because I stopped smoking and drugs and alcohol aren’t that fun without nicotine. I still smoke weed and haven’t been able to stop yet but I’ll get there.
This video deserves a lot more than 11,000 views
Dudes!! If you're on kratom extracts try switching to a strong plain leaf and taper off that. Also Benadryl helps a lot with withdrawals!! Gabapentin and baclofen work better but use with caution cause gabapentin specifically can be very addictive but both of those are safer options than traditional benzos like Xanax or Valium
My teammate "No Tap" Dan RIP passed away due to Kratom, and I remember when Jason first said he was taking it, I tried to warn him. Im glad hes off it now.
Kratom has changed my life. Chronic pain from having to work construction my whole life and RLS. The RLS had gotten so bad I could hardly sleep. It's completely gotten rid of my RLS.
I go to work everyday, pay my bills and I'm in better shape than ever.
Leave kratom alone.
@@joewatts2940 do you take the powdered leaf in capsules or the extracts?
That's amazing for you and truly I'm happy for you. As an addict I absolutely let it ruin my life. I'm 12 days free from it and will never look back. They even ducking say ITS NOT THE SAME FOR US ALL. Stop taking it personally if it works for you and you aren't taking heaps of it multiple times a day that's great but for people with addictive personalities IT. IS. A. DRUG. And it WILL absolutely become a problem.
@@DoctaSandman you sound like a big pharma rep
Jerry Dale Cash is the man behind Live Free (a convicted felon who misappropriated $10 million and was sentenced to 9 years in prison) and it's shocking that he's been able to get away for this as long as he has. I'm so sorry to anyone who is struggling and so appreciate Jason taking the time to talk about this thoroughly.
Its important to note that "free free" is a kratom EXTRACT. I have used regular kratom leaf on and off for years and have never experienced any withdrawal other than feeling a little like im getting a cold and a downturn in mood for a few days. Extracts on the other hand are something i would never get involved in, it really is a different ball-game. Just a point to note...ALWAYS avoid kratom extracts....not only is the withdrawal considerably worse but they RUIN your tolerance and you useage goes to ridiculous quantities chasing that mellow euphoric feeling.
Throwing up is usually because you smoked to much tobacco ON TOP of Kratom.
I've NEVER had any nausea once I quit tobacco.
Great conversation, thanks guys. Addiction in any form sucks and hard to be honest about.
Pros and cons.
Pro won’t kill you
Hmmm. If you took your blood tests and saw your liver values, you might take that statement back. You won’t OD is more like it
@ agreed. Meant it like people can make poor choices with the substance without immediate dyer consequences.
A drug addict, like these guys, will get addicted to anything. A lot of things said on this podcast is not true.
I miss seeing the guests reactions to the intro song 😁 always made me giggle. I even sang with Jason 🤣
I was addicted to opiates for over 10 years. Have been off them but on suboxone for the last 4 years now. Was told I should try Kratom to get myself off the suboxone. After hearing this, I don't think I will.
@@allthingssilver7635
I used subs to get off kratom lol
I'm in the same boat homie. The sub keeps me working and stable for my kids. I tried kratom before I broke down and went to outpatient. I literally did a shit ton chasing the itch and I relapsed.
I’m in the same boat as you guys. Trying to figure out how to get off sub now. Sucks being chained to this stuff and having to pay 150$ a month to see a doctor plus the 50$ for the script.
I’m 120 days off if subs. I did a taper protocol that worked for me. Not easy but doable. So greatful to be 100% sober and living in true freedom and recovery. It’s possible!
@Recovery-Dawg how much did you taper and how often?
I started off with 3 a day, then 2.5 a day, now I'm down to 2 a day but I can't seem to get past 2 a day.
The problem with telling people that some dont get addicted or have a problem with kratom(or other drugs) is that others with think they will not get addicted because they are the type that doesnt get addicted.
That sounds like a personal problem. We don't need to take it away because some people make worse choices than others
I knew it was addictive and I chose to take it and i'm fine with that. it's 2 dollars a day.
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 were did I say it needs to be takin away?
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 whatever drug pusher
Thats why scapegoating kratom is bad. This is a behavioral issue.
Discovered Kratom and Kava Oct of 2022. Loved it instead of alcohol, so quit alcohol there and then and started Feel Freeze VERY soon after that.
I got up to 3-4 bottles of FF & 25-35g/day. Quit cold turkey 6 wks ago and it was EVERY bit worse than running a 100 miles on foot. Still tired AF...feel 20yrs older energy-wise.
I was healthy AF, personal trainer, OMAD diet, started aleeping like hell and my workouts fell apart.
Super scary because I was told that this stuff was in the coffee family. NOT an Opiod...but plays on the opiod receptors.
Stomach and digestion is still fubar. Sleep is getting a lot better...but still pretty bad. Workouts are fair at best and sucky at worst. Gonna stay sober tho. This info of this podcast is the real deal.
Good luck everyone! ❤❤❤
Great point " hey let's split in two corners and call ourselves morans" over any online opinions. Yes definitely need to find and be a better way about discussion.
Damn I’ve been stuck on this stuff for a while and I know I have to stop and have tried to ween down and seem to get nowhere. This video is the only thing on the internet that I’ve ever found that is being completely honest about what this stuff does to you. And now after watching this I am terrified to go through it to get off but I know I have to do it. My issue is that I don’t have the financial means to drop out of life for two weeks. I hate this stuff I wish I never took it.
@ArthurPerez-t2e cut down slowly. I was a heavy 30 gram a day user. If you really want to get off and are afraid of child turkey I may have a solution. Cut down 50% of what you're using right now. Deal wth the mild withdraw for 2 or 3 days. Then cut down about 25% a day for a day. The next day do the same amount. When you get down more enough you're not going to be able to sleep. Your best bet is to stop using during the day. Only use enough to be able to fall asleep for a week. Cutting down a little each night. Then 5 to 7 days you're going to have insomnia. Just know every night gets a little easier to fall asleep. It doesn't last forever. You're going to have to want it. That's the only way. The shits everywhere. You have to be serious from day 1
It's not as bad as opiate withdrawals... what makes it hard to quit is how easily you can get it. 24hrs after your last use, you'll feel uncomfortable but it's not that bad. Don't take it Friday, you'll be good by Monday
@alexberry8299 you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Your experience is anecdotal. Please keep your "thoughts" to yourself. Unless your a bot. You're probly a misinfo bot
@ArthurPerez-t2e how long and what dosage? I'm on day 11 off a 12 year habit that Got up to 60 grams a day. Completely out of control and I cold turkey'd it, which, in all honesty I wouldn't recommend BUT if you can have the discipline to do a slow taper you do NOT have to suffer like me. I just knew I couldn't.
The creep feeling of RLS is something I have and had before I ever tried Kratom. I lived with every night! Kratom has removed that from my life. I never want to go back. Doctors don't have anything that actually help RLS, Kratom has. God you people need to stay out of others lives!
Interesting episode Jason. Thanks ❤️✨
I am 29 and don’t have kids, but I have 2 dogs. I can’t go to rehab, I can’t afford it money or time wise.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I can do my best to taper off.
Any suggestions for a tapering dose schedule?
I respect the experiences and opinions expressed here but I think you should call this A truth about kratom. I first tried kratom around fifteen years ago and still use it on occasion. I guess I'm not an addict or an addictive personality. There were times that I perhaps hammered it a bit much and felt some of the negative effects, restless legs at night, but would always lay off it when I got there. I tend to never use it more than three days in a row. I like feeling sober so when I take something I can sense the dynamic change of perspective. There have been times over the years I even forget about kratom and then think oh I could take some today for this massive bike ride. Alls to say not everyone who trys it spirals out of control into some dark space. I've never tried feel free or extracts just powder as tea.
As an ex kratom and alcohol addict, thank you jason
Was 3-4 bottles a day for 6 or 7 months. Went cold turkey and it was hell for two days. I still take kratom extracts, but like 1 feel free and a can of kratom soda. Ive got off it for weeks a few times and simply tapering with capsules are the best way to stop Ive found
This has to do with the stupid extract stuff. Not the natural leaf
@@zakksrage natural leaf is horrible also
@@calebmathis1952 not if taken responsible, its less potent of a drug than caffiene
Leaf user for 14 years, it can also be a huge problem. Again, like they said, it absolutely depends on the person. If you can use it responsibly more power to you. If you're an addict leaf can 100% become a problem and if you use daily, like me, for long periods of time you will pay for it. beyond glad it's behind me.
You guys shouldn’t have quit kratom cold turkey. The withdrawals wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if you would’ve slowly weened yourself off of it.
30 days off kratom and man it's a monkey on my back..I love opiates and this shit grabbed me by the soul ..I'm gonna keep trying to stay away from this . Thanks for this pod
I had an old friend introduce me to it because he was using it to stay of opioids. And he did incredible amounts of it too than unexpectedly became a dad - not sure if he’s still doing it. He was a health nut otherwise.
Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!!
I stumbled across Kratom soon after it became available in 2015 in the US. I found some solid info on what it was chemically, and I got some mild relief from heroin withdrawal using it. But by that point, I had 30 years experience as a heroin addict. Chemically, it was clearly just another opioid. To me, it was blatantly obvious that using Kratom was a bad move. Dodged that bullet. I hope everyone suffering from addiction finds their way to freedom.
its an opiod antagonist
I was hooked on OPMS Gold extract shots, the black are similar but different extract solvent stuff. When I tried the feel free stuff it wasn’t strong enough. And I was used to kava in much higher doses so it seemed like too much of a rip off.
They’re all a rip off in the end.
I see a bunch of comments of people freaking out because they’re not hearing a specific product get named. I guarantee the addiction in them is trying to find a defense for what product they are using, and they’re trying to create separation between their product and the one you’re speaking about.
I say this as someone who is actively using Kratom and took 5-6 spoonfuls yesterday.
I hate it, it is so hard to stop. Especially living alone and not having enough responsibility.
I believe that the companies making extracts/concentrates along with the brands that are adding other drugs to their powder need to be prosecuted or punished in some severe way. Something that is equal to the severity of how much they’ve distorted and ruined peoples lives.
Something in me wants revenge especially on whoever is putting methadone in powder kratom products. Like I want to hurt someone over this I’m so upset.
When my dad told me to be careful and taper off, and said that people are dying when they try to stop taking kratom I was like ok dad. And seriously thought ohh that’s probably a weird product or they had other stuff in their system. I finally believe it is just the kratom. My mom has told me for over a year that I look like death when I use it. And she can tell most of the time if I have been using kratom or not based off how my skin and eyes look.
She said it makes me look like a meth head.
Im just glad youre better Jason 🫡
To say kratom is MAYBE a lesser evil than heroin is wild. Shit is basically coffee or nicotine
And there are 100% acute withdrawal symptoms from caffeine and nicotine what is this guy talking about. The headaches, irritable, restless, lethargic the list goes on. Try going cold turkey on caffeine or nicotine and tell me you don't notice this is some BS fr
No it's not. Stop lying to yourself and other people. Some of us have actual pharmacology education. You are wrong, and you're telling someone that their physical experience isn't real.
Bro I've been physically dependent on this green powder for like 6 years. Shits awful, it's super hard to quit because at any moment I can send an order to my house or go to a vape shop.
Heroin is obviously 10x worse. But this green sludge is seriously no joke.
I thought there were no withdrawals when I started, because of all the lies online. It's 10x harder to kick then caffine. Stfu
@@gabrieldavidcomedy8139 Even Rogan and Shaub gets things wrong, don't forget their greatest skill is comedy. Their rational thinking is not aa good S their comedy and they care more about money than spreading misinformation
You’re silly as F, Bro.
I feel like Kratom is still a natural solution for people with chronic pain. I never tried it so not an advocate, definitely an addict though. Great podcast very insightful. will give Kratom a swerve unless I really need it
This is good honest content.
This should be edited to "The truth about kratom EXTRACT"
Or kratom shots or gas station drugs. Makes responsible users look bad and besmirches the plant.
Listen to song of shame by HAVE HEART.
I’m standing in the shower rn. I just started my day. Since I have to take about 40 probiotic gummies or capsules to have a bowel movement it starts in the bathroom.
I drip about a gallon of snot from my nose and have the chills. Hair is falling out of my head. I’m going bald cause of the trace amounts of lead in the opms black I take.
I’ve been begging for days off so I can kick this.
In about an hour after a hot shower I’ll take 4 opms blacks with some vitamin c powder and orange juice. I’ll fall into this bullshit yet again.
One day I’ll be free.
Thank you for talking about this. I’m tempted to start posting about my journey so I have accountability.
The deal with the extracts are correct. I used kratom to get off Oxy. It worked for me. I have used it on and off since then. I always use dry leaves and never use the extracts. Recently while in Panama City Beach I used a 100x extract to get over a bad hangover. It worked for probably 3 hours. I could tell it was very strong.
12-14 days of in bed withdrawals was what i also experienced, happy the severity of these gas station narcotics is being discussed
I only ever did the ground up leaf powders and my detox experience wasn't so intense. Still no good tho
This was really good. I don’t think some ppl know what they are getting into but on the other hand some ppl know and if you can take whatever it is in moderation then it’s not a problem but for a lot of us it’s all or nothing and that doesn’t work out. I think it’s how we are wired maybe idk
lifelong hardcore alky ,dipsomaniac drunkard and substance abuser
"Half of my life
I spent doin' time for some other fucker's crime
The other half found me stumbling 'round drunk on Burgundy wine
But I'll get back on my feet again someday
The good Lord willin'
If He says I may
I know that the life I'm livin's no good
I'll get a new start, live the life I should
I'll get up and fly away"Jerry Garcia / Robert Hunter
Anyone else remember Kratom from like 20 yrs ago? Back then there was a forum online with a few vendors you could buy from out of their homes. They would get it straight from the source in Asia. Nothing fancy, just plain leaf that often you had to make into powder at home. Shipments would be seized at customs sometimes. I stopped taking it for yrs, and was shocked the first time I saw it at smoke shops
Thats me
There’s over 500 scientific studies done on Kratom itself. NIDA has set aside $100 million to study it. There’s 0 scientific studies done on Kratom and kava extract mixed together 1:08:21
Sober is BEST for MOST!!!