Can Dream Academy succeed without the story?
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Can a talent-focused music reality show work?
That’s what Dream Academy aims to do. Created by Hybe and Geffen, the show aims to create a global girl group trained up in the K-pop ways. So far, so good.
Yet, the show goes in a different direction, skipping over any story parts and only shows trainee’s performances. Only showing a show’s performances without any drama or narrative is a first for K-pop.
While it’s noble for a show to emphasize talent and skill over any drama narratives, doing this has been a major, controversial point to many fans.
With that said, can a K-pop influenced show thrive without the story? Let’s find out!
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 The breakdown on Dream Academy
3:30 The positives of Dream Academy
6:36 Many fans talk about skill and talent
7:43 So there’s no story. What else is there?
8:57 Why having a story is so important?
10:41 Most fans prefer story over talent
12:43 The big truth is…
13:41 Finally get some story
17:00 Can Dream Academy succeed with no story?
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Hi, my name is Jason! I used to work in Korea for 11 years in the K-pop industry as a journalist, brand marketer, and data scientist. Now I talk about my experiences working in the K-pop industry here at Popsori.
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I think a main benefit is the girls that don’t make the group don’t have to worry about a reality show image following them. There’s no drama filled train following them that some trainees have when survival shows evil edit them. They can leave behind nice videos of their talent, take the fans they made with them especially figuring they are allowed to be active on social media. Now they have a good foot to get a future music career. I feel it’s kinda nice
I think because these are the top 20 out of 120,000 the skill difference isn’t going to be *that* big. If they all can sing and/or dance well, then the only other thing to distinguish them is their story, looks, nationality, and personality.
It’s impossible to be objective even if they tried because humans are subjective by nature and will vote however they please even if they’re supposed to vote based on talent.
Definitely. While watching the performances I was like they're all so talented. Literally it doesn't matter who ends up in the group. From a skill level they all deserve it.
I think the only thing that is difficult about the show is that it’s hard to feel connected. You don’t see much of the girls’ personalities outside of the vlogs we get and their social medias. I like that the girls get to be so open and active online, but that is the only way of seeing their personalities outside of the vlogs. It’s challenging because some girls aren’t active as the others and not everyone is going to see these posts unless they’re extremely dedicated
wait they are on social media ???!!
A lot of people complained about fans voting based on country and not talent, but I don’t think the argument works. The girls are all extremely talented. You can take any combination of these girls and make them a group and they’d still be well rounded.
Hybe as mad eit pretty clear that fan voting will not decide all member. Better like that tho cause the fans voting is ridiculous right now. #1 can't even speak English. Kind of hypocrite.
fr and what else are we supposed to vote on? no one in particular stands out talent wise, and they are barely showing us content
Nah you could tell who should be voted out. There is a gap
people are voting on country/race because of lack of content which sucks but it's fine. what i DON'T like is how people refuse to admit that they're voting based on country and insist that they're voting based on talent and personality when we've barely even seen anything
I think the general public's interest really showed in the numbers. I criticized A2K early on for looking "cheap" compared to DA, but I was really surprised by the fact that most A2K episodes have over 2 million views! Those are crazy numbers, it shows that JYP knows when to throw money at something and when they can rely almost entirely on their reality show formula.
I do think talent is important when it comes to people in the music industry, but K-pop and mainstream pop music in general relies so much on personality, it's hard to deny talent can sometimes take a backseat compared to other attributes.
One thing i love is that they just upload the performances as they are without manipulative editing. Mnet and korean editing general repeat some parts in perfomances. Lets say, a trainee winks at the camera while performing, and so mnet repeats that wink like 3 times and then edits bits of the judges gasping in awe (and sometimes they are out context) and they persuade you into thinking "wow this is the best performance i have ever seen!" But when you watch the entire performance with no fancy editing, a lot of the time you see it was actually nothing remarkable at all. This style of show lets you decide on your own which one is worth voting for.
Gosh! Those MNET replayed moments are so annoying and distracting! I would like a stage fan cam for the performances though. With the camera work, you lose how well people stay "on" when they're not the focus.
Im not gonna lie with this ACADEMY kinda theme they could've made this show SO much more interesting... and them not making it like a normal survival show doesnt let us make a deeper conncection with them. CUZ at the end of the day- its not the talent that matters in the industry, its the special quality and the personality that can make them stand out.
Notice, all the remaining contestants are pretty and have slim/fit bodies. Despite people saying “talent should matter over visuals”, people still care a lot about visuals.
Were there contestants at some point which were shown on UA-cam who have different body types?
It makes sense that the contestants would be slim and fit, because being an idol requires probably similar amounts of physical exertion and healthful diet as an elite athlete.
I strongly suspect that, however much people on social media say they're only interested in "talent", appearance and country of origin is what most people will vote for. Also, people who genuinely believe they are supporting "talent" may be unknowingly biased in favour of somebody whose appearance they like.
It's almost impossible to separate emotions from objective thought, especially since all art forms, including singing and dancing are subjective. 🙏🌺
Yup, people will always care about visuals in kpop. No matter how much they say it's about 'talent'
Ultimately, the group will succeed or fail based on how well the songs are, how viral the choreo is, and how well they are marketed by Hybe. The story won't mean that much in the end.
Well if they do have good songs they wont have any strong fanbase and very low album sales cause no one is dedicated to them, and they will also easily get ignored and fade into the background cause their is no strong fanbase to help them stay relevant
@@hallooos7585 Wdym? The group is literally anticipated by a big number of the shows fans. Many popular groups now like Twice, Stray kidz, Enhypen, etc. came from survival shows and they've got a large fanbase in Korea and worldwide. Their talents, personalities, and relationships are already shown in many of the medias they post whch makes it easier to understand their group. Also, they are debuting under Geffen and Hybe which are companies with many of the most worldwide popular artists. Their debut will most definitely succeed and the outcome would be the total opposite of urs. U probs only use facebook that's why you can't observe how many people follow this show.
THIS. The songs and performances better be good
@@hallooos7585 well newjeans didn’t even have a strong pre-existing fandom before debut. Their fandom got stronger because on how good their songs are.
Well who was Pussycat Dolls back then before they blew up?
Maybe the show is not famous rn but trust me they will be big after debut because hybe willl gonna do everything for them succes and the company is good at making music so they are in good hands.
I think it’s fine to just showcase talent only. The biggest problem for me is that there’s so many clips to keep track of and watch instead of watching all the performances in one go, and so many different ways and platforms and rules you have to go to in order to vote. But I know like others said it’s different to feel connected to the trainees without knowing them as a person since is the whole concept of of being a kpop idol. Fans fall in love with their personalities and charisma
No there was definitely evil editing. They knew Manon was sick but continuously ran a story that she was basically not committed to the show or bringing down her team.
personally i like the new direction they are going with. with survival shows there was always so much drama and evil editing. you would see a trainee start crying during practice and another getting stressed and being “controlling” and all of sudden they have new fans and haters. i understand people are biasing their countries but i don’t see much of a problem in that. they are all obviously talented and its better than having a bias based on manipulated editing. and let’s not pretend like hybe doesn’t have a final say in the lineup. it’s shouldn’t even really be a problem to them about why people are voting. better than people voting on visuals. and i like that the contestants are showing their personalities on social media. i understand that some don’t post a lot but that’s their choice. better than being filmed 24/7 and having your privacy violated for drama and views.
I much prefer the survival show model over the trainee/exclusive contract model of group formation for the reasons you state. The girls get exposure and experience and can build a fan base, win or lose, and fans can get invested in their stories. Dream Academy touches the basic formula, but is more about the long game. This is going to be H7be's girl group beachhead in America. It's no accident LSF are prominent here. LSF is a group that could thrive in America with their athletic professionalism and more mature outlook/concept. Jennifer really seems to love speaking English for a change. Everyone's story is the competition now. They'll build out the group story with the doc and the music. Under promise then over perform.
I can't blame you. I actually don't hate this model either, where it focuses solely on talent and skill rather than pure story.
I do think the marketing of the show could have been a lot better. If the show had some story, but gave context to the performers, I do think the mostly-performance focus that Dream Academy is aiming for could have been a huge success.
Update! Which proves your point of how important a story is for a contestant: I subscribe to Gina's (cut from A2K at the very end) channel and just received two community posts on October 4.
One is to say that the fan name, which was voted on, is DeWolves!
The second was a message from Gina expressing overwhelming gratitude for 900,000 views on her MV "Freedom!"
And the comments are full of love and support, because all of us who followed A2K know how talented Gina is, and how deserving of success she is!
Her channel name is her actual name, Gina DeBosschere.
Congratulations, Popsori, on your very accurate video! 🙏😍🌺🏆
I think the biggest problem now is people voting. It is a huge disadvantage for girls from small countries, like Adela, who placed last. They could cover this gap by providing better story for each contestant.
Another problem is that the line distribution is horrific, I could barely see or hear some of the contestants. How am I supposed to vote for them if they didn’t have the opportunity to fully show themselves….
Also, personally I felt evil editing even in those short videos of content. That’s pretty sad that higher-ups try to manipulate votes like this. Either show a proper storyline, or don’t show it at all…
I can agree with this, but you can’t be mad at people are voting for their countries when the main promotion of the show revolves around that. The first thing we saw of the program was a video of them showing their flags, when they introduced themselves, they said where they are from, and in their bios it states their countries. If the show wanted people to vote for talent, they wouldn’t put so much emphasis on their countries during the promotion.
@@neb.9489 absolutely agree. Also, it’s beneficial for the group to have members from countries with bigger population. It’s just doesn’t sound interesting to me since the voting will stay relatively the same throughout the whole competition. Even the judges pointed it out, so it must be a real problem for them now. Btw, I love all the contestants and I think everyone is ready to debut. I think this issue was inevitable and I wonder what are they gonna do. I’m expecting that the judges will eliminate some very popular trainees and this will cause a backlash.
+ those HYBE group/member promoting a specific contestant
I like the structure, no bias based on personality and hopefully just skill. Sadly there's still bias (ie nationality, ethnicity) so HYBE is rather disappointed in the turn out of the votes.
For sure that there will be bias. I'm wondering what the HYBE team is thinking behind the scenes, as they really tried to make the show about the talent.
@@Popsoriyeah it’s obvious that there will always be some kind of bias. Even if they hid the nationalities, people would be influenced by looks. Bias is natural but especially for young fans who most definitely do not have much training in anything those girls are doing, judging the differences in quality between the contestants is hard. It’s not like the gaps between them were that big.
Honestly I have a hard time choosing for that reason. I keep hoping there will be a last minute twist to make all my faves debut😅. They are all so talented.
@@Popsori I also think this is a method to address "evil editing" whenever an audience feels (in any type of way) that there is favoritism. It's very hard to ensure equal (and quality) air time. Can't win either way.
Yeah, I agree with you 100% that bias is natural, especially for young fans. Fans will vote on aspects outside of talent and skill, such as looks or nationality, since as others mentioned, the skill level gap between the 20 contestants aren't that big.
So true. I think the show's more straightforward approach in showing just the performances was supposed to limit evil editing. Yet, as you said, the producers or editors may have their favorites. Or it's just so hard to ensure roughly equal air time.
Since the show can't win either way, I gave Hybe / Geffen the benefit of the doubt that they tried to limit evil editing.
One drawback, when voting purely on talent, you could get a group of only main vocals/dancers. The vocals and sub-vocals are important too (and they usually are more than adequate dancers).
Actually, that is a very good point. The vocals and especially sub-vocals are underrated.
I think if trainees were picked off specialization - so trainee A is S-tier when it comes to sub-vocals, but only a B in dancing, that would be great too. Sadly, I don't think voting off specialization translates well to a music reality show, where fans may not see specialization as a thing. For many fans, trainees are expected to be A / S-tier in everything: vocals, sub-vocals, dancing, stage presence, etc.
No western girl group in the past or now has any sub vocals so that makes no sense for the target market of this group. They all need to hold their own lol.
@@diannaa.62They are making a global K-pop group.
@@ronc9413no, there making a global group. They're only singing in English as well
@@diannaa.62 Pussicat dolls ?
Honestly, as someone who watches these survivals shows quite often and sometimes hate the drama, at the beginning I liked the idea of being without drama.
But now I hate, I honestly can't remember anyone's name, except Samara that is the one from my country. I don't feel the connection, I don't have anything to associate the girls with other than their looks, country and talent (but all of them are talented). For me, It feels like a bunch of NPC, not in a mean way, but they don't make me want to cheer for anyone or to get to know them better.
And seeing from a voting point of view, I don't think it works, people are mostly voting based on country, since it's the only thing they can relate to. Like you can go these girls sings better but for most people talent is not enough, since on the long run, the fan will be staning the group because of the people on it, not only talent.
As someone who watches reality shows and prioritizes talent, missing the story still effects how we support them in the long run. I was a huge fan of K from I-Land and after the controversy about him on twitter and him not making it into the final lineup, a lot of fans including myself thought it might be the end. Most 4th gen idols debuting were born after 2000, and K being a 1997 liner meant that his chances could be slim. With no news about him for over an year, K and 4 other fan favorites from I-Land were announced to debut through &Audition. Let's be honest, while everyone was happy that his talent didn't go to waste, his backstory and hard work which were evident through I-Land was what really captured people's hearts. Humans are multi-dimensional and even if we say, 'i prefer x more than y,' deep inside we know both x and y are important. Infact, humans are not even just 2D, we have so many layers and knowing them more makes us root for their journey, while drawing inspiration from them too.
I am enjoying Dream Academy right now, but interacting with fans on weverse or sending fan letters to the participants, I realise I have nothing new to say. I love their skills and talent, I believe in their ability and I wish that for every mission that I can vote for more of them but there's nothing else to say. Maybe in one mission someone surprised you more than expected. But nothing else. There's literally nothing else, no friendships forming, no honest conversations that we see and it takes away from some of the experience.
Honestly i love this and i cant wait for the Netflix series. I watched all of the A2K episodes and yes it was fun to see their personalities and everything, but a negative was the backlash and hate the contestants had. For example Kendall got hated all because of JYP’s favouritism towards her and people started blaming her. Building a group off of seeing how talented they are is what i want.
Wait now that you said it, MLD recently just did this with HORI7ON an all filipino global pop group, the show is called Dream Maker it's a collaboration with filipino talents and korean mentors and the survival show was held in the Philippines, i binge watched the show a month ago on UA-cam MLD official and dream maker official, the first episodes were evaluation with just skills and talents no story but as the shows goes on it was bts , interview, training clips that gave context on each trainers plus as the trainess slowly gets fewer their were more interaction at the end of the show those who made it as a group will have their own documentary on their journey thru their debut in korea
So yeah kinda same formula
Even the interactions do matter. like for example RUNext, Yunah showed wholesome chemistry with the eliminated trainees rather than in the debut line up.
it's hybe and geffen, the group will succeed in a way no matter what, it all comes down who the members are going to be.
Nice analysis and video =) Dream Academy is pretty interesting . Can't wait to see the final line up. The trainees are all talented, it's not easy to be chosen out of 120,000 applicants, so the level of skills and talent are really high. I guess, what will set the difference in the end, is the determination of each trainees and a pinch of luck.
btw, I just notice, I see a lot of Brooklyn in this video, she's quite a charm right? Must be your bias? ;)
I can't wait to see the final lineup either. The trainees are all stacked in talent, looks, stage presence, etc.
As for my bias, as a journalist, I tend to stay as non-bias as possible. I like them all :) I guess it was coincidence that Brooklyn was in a lot of the video lol.
Thanks for watching :)
captivating as usual. Keep on the good work Jason! P.S.: still waiting for a XG video though 😉
Haha thanks for watching, as usual! As for XG, that's the second upcoming video. The next upcoming video is on a popular 2nd / early 3rd male group that's from the Big 4 :)
Should be a fun video for older-school K-pop fans.
What? There's a Filipina? I haven't heard any news about this in the Philippines. I think many Filipinos don't know about this yet. I mean, usually for something this big, it should've been in the headlines already. I wonder why this isn't popular in PH. Would be amazing if Sophia gets the support she needs.
She is pretty popular!
that's interesting. I think casuals aren't familiar with this yet. I must say that based on what I've seen so far, only die hard kpop fans here in the Philippines know about this. But most people don't have any idea. I hope she does well in the competition!@@ghkdwls
I think it's the poor marketing why Dream Academy isn't more known overseas, such as in the Philippines. But I do think if Sophia makes it in the final group, the country will definitely know.
I’m Filipino living in Europe and I didn’t know as well lmao
Its already in the news in the Philippines
Pure skills, no drama.. that's how it works👍
Having talent is great, but a story is what makes someone a fan. Without story, it comes off as people who can sing/dance other people's song really well. A great cover team. Once they create original music what will their story be? or will it be generic pop songs? I think its great they started incorporating the vlogs. It doesn't have to be one or the other when it comes to talent and story. I'm rooting for the girls and the labels! Looks like it could be the start of something really cool.
OMG I was thinking of this too!? Most K reality shows start with a Signal song so that we can guess the concept of the group and see which trainees are best suited vocally and when dancing to said concept. I hope there's a Signal song mission else these girls are giving cover team so far with absolutely zero hints to their future genre/style at all.
You hit all the points that I had in mind, but you added the brilliant analogy of watching an action movie - but only the fight scenes without context. 🎯
I wonder if most survival show viewers are girls or women as opposed to guys? The reason I'm wondering is because I saw a poll once on whether athletes' stories matter for people watching the Olympics. The guys overwhelmingly said they don't care about anybody's story - they just want to watch the best in the world compete.
On the other hand, I found that many girls and women share my preference, which is that we will watch a sport we have no interest in if there is a compelling backstory for at least one athlete in an individual sport or at least one team in a team sport.
Speaking of teams, I strongly support the concept of team players in a K-pop group. A less talented individual might be a much better team player. It seems like the idols are closer than family as they seem to spend their days together, and live in dorms. Group cohesion, and positive morale is absolutely essential.
As much as people will claim on social media that they vote for "talent", there will be many votes in favour of somebody from their own country, or to whom they feel akin in another way. Maybe they even truly believe that person is the most talented?
Thank you very much for the video! 🙏🤩🌺🪩✨
You bring up a good point with the demographics of survival shows and if most are guys or girls. I find your Olympics story quite fascinating, where most guys didn't care about the story and just wanted to watch the best compete. Yet, most girls felt compelled to watch for the story, even if they weren't interested in the sport itself.
You're right that idols are closer than family a lot of times, since you're spending every waking hour and live in the dorms. To have a solid group performance, you have to be in-sync with your team members. Bonding with your teammates is one of the biggest factors in having a great team performance.
Yeah, I do think that for as many people that preach "talent" over anything else, a lot more votes will be because "they're from my country." We see this in world events, like the World Cup, all too often heh.
Once again, thanks so much for your comments! I really appreciate it and your in-depth takes in K-pop :)
@@Popsori Thank you for the compliment, and for your reply! Off-topic but I just saw a freshly-uploaded, very exciting video called “full metal jacket“ by a group named EPEX! That’s going on my “high energy“ playlist!
When I first found out that the group members share dorms, I was immediately reminded of Cold War eastern bloc elite sports training especially women’s gymnastics and figure skating. It’s apparently easier for very young children to start in these sports, rather than starting at age 10 or 11, which would be completely sufficient for the vast majority of sports.
They would have scouts go to all the elementary schools and have the 5-6 yo kids do various activities in order to see who was naturally gifted. When they identified a potential athlete, they would go to the child’s house to take a look at the parents. I doubt anybody was ever overweight in those countries, except maybe top party officials. But if the parents were both unusually tall, that would mean the child is probably going to also be tall, and therefore might be considered to tall for artistic gymnastics. Rhythmic gymnasts tend to be taller, so that 5 foot 6 is a normal height.
So the scout would tell the parents the child has been identified as having potential for gymnastics and that it is the duty of all citizens to assist in helping the country’s sports win glory and medals. Any parent saying no thanks would shortly be visited by a party official finding out why the parents are uncooperative. Athletes who won Olympic medals would receive a larger flat for their family, and maybe even a car. (In East Germany, the wait times to own a car were often two years and longer!)
So five and six year old kids would start off in a centralized training facility in which they lived and trained with other kids from all over the country. After 1996, the minimum age for senior women gymnasts was raised to 16 years old but before then, it was 14. So they lived together for at least 8 to 10 years which is why they knew their teammates much, much better than their family members.They rarely saw or were allowed to contact their parents and siblings.
Now in K-pop, it seems that the idols can use their phones to contact anybody when they have free time, or are there also regulations on phone usage?
As for people choosing to vote for candidates from their own countries, I think maybe it’s less like the World Cup, and more like golf and tennis. These athletes have a flag next to their name, but it seems like their victories belong to themselves instead of their country. I don’t even know why they have their country affiliation unless they’re playing in the Davis Cup (men), Fed Cup (women) or in the Olympics, of course.
With the World Cup, I have discovered that although practically everybody supports their own country, a lot of people support a secondary country, to which they seemingly have no personal connection.
Based on my extremely limited experience in which I have contacted less than 1 million people, Brazil, England, France, Italy seem to be the main second-choice teams, and I’ve been very surprised by the number of east Asians cheering on Germany. Possibly one or more of their country’s stars play for a team in Germany.
One UA-camr (HITC Sevens) made a video on which English Premier League team was the most popular in every country. It seems all of Egypt became fans of Liverpool because that’s where Egyptian superstar Mohamed Salah plays!
I seem to be getting slightly off-topic (again!) here, but I am looking forward to watching Dream Academy develop! Thank you very much for your time! 😎🙏🦋✨
Haven’t seen the show but I like the concept. Since we know nothing about the contestants, nobody has a pre-show fandom (who will vote for them regardless of how well they do). Also, won’t be a popularity contest because know nothing about them and what happens when not performing. So judging solely on visuals and the performances.
The concept is quite intriguing and got me to watch the show. But since the viewer knows nothing about each member, the focus on the talent and skill is noble, as members should be judged on their singing and dancing. But unless people dance in a costume, like in that show "The Masked Singer," many fans will also judge on visuals and nationality.
We need a story without drama, like a good videogame
OMG so true!! I really loved Hybe Label Japan's &Audition, it was really focused on their chemistry as a whole and the 15 trainees had a shared end goal which really made it interesting. &TEAM, the debut group from the show, is also very close knit and always sharing funny stories on WeLive.
having no story means no bias (screentime).
all performance.
SOPHIA MY BIASED🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🧿💯♥️♥️💯
No evil editing but they still made Manon look bad by saying she was missing rehearsals but not saying she was sick until after the voting. Also, for the first mission, they made Brooklyn look bad bc she had more parts. When she most likely had them because Manon was sick. People were literally hating on her because they thought she would be pushed throughout the whole show. They are definitely using information gaps to push a certain narrative.
i think so too i think this all was intentional. i realized they had the girls that said something that could be seen controversial ended up eliminated anyways so it was yikes but hopefully next mission it will be better
I just think of the program as when companies are going to do a new group but this time everything is recorded and published. To be honest I prefer this type of programs without story from big companies, because no matter what happen many people are going to follow them and discover their stories while growing up as a group. I think its more entertaining than just know everything about a person whose debut is not confirmed yet. Yes, many times story helps the trainees which werent choose but at the same time it has destroyed a lot of careers as well
well without the story the other trainees who didn't make it will 100% be sure that they wont debute again cause they don't have a fanbase unlike other survival shows where trainees get to show their personality and gain massive fanbase despite not debuting but later on they eventually debute because of their popularity
Well, who buys albums based on talent? They would only listen to the music and not follow the group.
Popsori, you the man! I wish I was friends with you IRL
We can be online friends! But hey, if we meet in IRL, I'd be honored to be friends :)
@Popsori and I KNOW you're Once!
idkkk but this is the perfect format for ppl like me who stans talent than looks. though the contestants lack introduction, i think it helps bc i think it will help lessen the competition among solo stans in the final line up, hence, building a solid group fan base. the common format that most kpop survival shows promote (esp produce and girls planet---worst) creates competition among fans through the story and drama, ntm the unfair screen time the producers and editors are trying to show, also leading to viewers to think that they are pushing for the contestants who have more screen time. an example is gp999, ppl hated on hiyyih for being txt kai's sister and for her stage presence. however, she was only given screen time during performance or whenever they need clout lol. but for her story? nada. hence, her haters were shocked when she made it as P02 when in fact as the show progresses, so as their performances, she improved and proved her stability and skills. on the other hand, in this format, i agree with those ppl who said that this format has less drama and evil editing and more talents and skills. maybe one problem i could point out is the lack of critique on other contestants, which i have observed in mission 2 commentary.
그런데 서바이벌 오디션 프로그램의 문제는 인기투표로 맴버를 결정시에 이게 보이는 면으로 사람들이 판단으로 투표를 하므로 최적 맴버의 선정에서 실패하고 즉 이는 데뷔후 성공에서 멀어 잘수가 있다는 점이다,,케이팝 아이돌 그룹은 일정한 역활분배가 필수적이다,,,,,그래서 최적으로 조합의 여부가 아주 중요하므로 소속사 임직원이 맴버 선정에 간여가 필수이다
And that is that makes this show unique.
The girls are talented, not gonna lie but after watching the fearless & antifragile performances, all of them was breathless at the end. The antifragile A&B team went off key, and their pitch was overall messy especially the higher the key range their vocals get piercing (e.g sophia). The fearless A&B team had the same problem as the antifragile team, so much for an individual who trained together before filming their performance videos because 1. UA can't hold a fucking note and 2. Daniela & Manon are one of the participants who did a good job singing the lower range but ALL teams aren't trained properly to be more stable. They got us all in the first challenge where they were divided as vocal & dance team but seeing them work both, its a hit or miss. I'm not impressed so I'm only voting for 3 here daniela, manon & nayoung.
to be fair, at least its true to the original. lsfm is also known to be out of breath and rocky during their fearless performances
honestly they did better than the already debuted idol 😂 and this is only their second performance with a short amount of time for training/rehearsal..
Exactly! The vocals is the thing that is throwing me off. The girl groups I'm used to can SING their faces off without breaking a sweat!
i noticed that theyre trying to evil edit karlee and manon. lol
This show made me see that everyone (judges included) sees performance and music in a subjective way and has subjective preferences that can also depend on our own culture so the "people vote for their own Country" can have a deeper meaning. If you are from Country A, grown with liking Country A's music and understand more Country A's expressions, it would be more difficult to relate to Country B's sounds and expressions. All of it is very subjective but a lot of people think what they believe is the holly truth (ex: "Team X was way better than Team Y and if votes aren't aligning with my opinion, the show is rigged" or "it's obvious that Team X was better because they had more stage presence and vocal stability" while another one will believe exactly the same..., but for Team Y.
I don't think the "rigged" allegations is coming from subjective judgement, hybe brought it on themselves with the lineup of R U Next.
Hey Jason...i'm starting to get confused with the title 'GLobal Group"...What is the criteria for a "Global Group"? Group that has members from different countries and/or nationality? Cuz isnt pretty much every Pop group or on any group/artists from any genre that has some global following and achievement including Kpop at this point are technically considered Global or world wide? I also read or heard somewhere the group coming out of this is recording in English only? I could be wrongt..,.if thats the case would this still falls under the Kpop banner but as a "Global Group"? So confusing to me lol....hope you can elaborate if you get a chance...thanks man...
Yo Kingo! No problem, I got you!
I get what you're saying that K-pop these days is the trendy music these days, and thus, could be considered global. So when the term "global group" gets thrown around, I can understand the confusion, since "isn't K-pop already worldwide?"
What a "global group" means is a group made up of trainees all over the world or from the West (i.e. the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.) So instead of a traditional K-pop group that are made up of Koreans, Asians, or overseas-Koreans (i.e. Korean-Americans, etc.), this group will have a mix of cultures (America to Korea in the US / Canada) or nationalities (Dream Academy from all over the world).
This group is usually co-founded by a K-pop and American label, will sing in English, and be based in a Western country (usually the US). The goal of the "global group" is to cater to Western audiences, rather than Asian or Korean audiences. Like you said, this group will be singing in all English (or a majority in English and a little Korean).
The K-pop influence is from the K-pop training system and sound, which the "global group" adopts.
I hope this clears up any confusion of this "global group" phenomenon :)
I think you're wrong, there is Drama. 1st Drama, unqualified Judges. 2 you have people voting for their country only, which will be disastrous for the debut team. 3 You will have much more hate after debut, as People already have so much hate for the final debut teams, because their bias didn't make it.
To be fair, I never said there wasn't any drama at all. Just that there would be a lot less because of the show's structure.
I don't think Hybe and Geffen can win with the fans. They make a show based off talent and try to make it more fair than other shows. But fans will still create their own drama because their favorites didn't make the final group.
지나친 우려 같다,,,, 막상 이들이 그룹으로 데뷔시에 단결을 한다,,,경선에서 미워하는 후보 라도 해도 같은 팀에서는 단합이 불가피 해서이다 ,,, 왜 냐하면 다른 경쟁자가 시장에서 존재하므로,,미래의 이팀의 팬들은 그자신의 나라는 다인종국가가 주류일것이고 미국 부터가 이민으로 구성한 다인종적인 국가인데 ,,,다른 인종과 혼거 자체가 익숙한 사회 풍경이지
What is the show I feel like it could work but I also feel like at the same time it’s some thing that’s going to hinder the group at some point. It’s not necessarily the drama of these reality shows that get people to like tune in all time that does get some people to do it in, but I think it’s the beginning of the para social relationships before they actually become idols because you’ll see it so many of the shows even girls or boy contestants who don’t make it end up having quite a big fan base so when they do ultimately end up debuting, it’s almost a guaranteed success to some degree. My people are definitely interested in these girls, but I definitely feel like outside of people who are just interested in like this company in general, and what they’re gonna come out with and who actually do research or try to research any of these girls they’re going to have a lower para social relationship with the girls Out like they can’t work with that TXT had the same issue in my opinion at the beginning.
Because so many people weren’t able to have that Para social relationship with him at the start compared to the other boy paraded after them where they came from a survival program and you can definitely tell where the difference was but ultimately it can work out depending on how the girls are portrayed and advertised once they are a group what kind of programs they go on what kind of UA-cam series and programs the company creates for them and people get to know them more.
I think they can do without the story, but are we really getting to see the contestants skills? They should have done a talent segment, where they uploaded a small clip of the girls showing their best shot, at singing or dancing, just giving their best performance.
A successful show is one thing, a successful group is another.
What is the primary market for this group? Is it Korea? I assume it will be since La Sseraffim made a guest appearance. If that is the case, I think that the group will not be successful because it will be too "international." I have written about this in a comment on a previous video. People want their K-pop to be Korean. A few non-Korean East Asians (including Korean-Americans) might be ok, but it seems to me that a group will not be accepted with more than one obviously non CJK member. Is it racist? Maybe, but that is the reality of the market. Koreans want their K-pop to be Korean; international fans *also* want their K-pop to be Korean - that is why they are into K-pop rather than Western (meaning "American") pop. It isn't merely aesthetics. As you mentioned in the video, K-pop is primarily about the parasocial relationship. The music is not the product, the idol is the product. The music is just the medium through which the idol can be presented. It seems to me that barring some exceptional circumstance, a group's members must all be able to appear on Korean TV shows and interact naturally (or as naturally as something scripted can be). They must be sufficiently familiar and comfortable in Korean culture that both the show and the idol's management company want to get them out there to be seen by the public. It isn't just that the idol needs to be able to interact with fans, but rather the idol needs to be able to interact well with other Korean celebrities - because that is what helps build the parasocial relationship. The odd cultural anomaly might be OK from time to time (like Park Joon Hyung or Jessi - but note that both of them seem to get along uncommonly well with Yoo Jae Suk), but if the member cannot be entertaining to most Koreans on Korean TV, that idol isn't helping the group's popularity.
Is the primary market the West? Geffen's involvement suggests that this might be the case. However, I am not sure that there is much demand for idol groups in the Western market. I get the feeling that this show is trying to make a group that will appeal to everybody, but in so doing, might end up making one that will fail to appeal to anybody. It would be great to be wrong about this, but I guess time will tell.
That's a good observation with Le Sserafim guest appearing, further enforcing that this Dream Academy group may also go international as well.
I do agree that most K-pop fans want their K-pop to be Korean (or East Asians / overseas Koreans, like you mentioned). I also agree many international fans *also* want their K-pop to be Korean. Like you said, people get away from American pop to go to K-pop because it's different. Because K-pop is seeped in Korean culture. Because K-pop has highly polished dancing and singing. Because K-pop doesn't talk about drugs, sex, and money like a lot of American music. Because K-pop stars, on average, are very attractive.
I also agree that many K-pop fans expect a K-pop, or even global group that's influenced by the K-pop system, to converse in Korean on Korean TV shows with little to no problem. Fans expect the group to know Korean culture and norms, rather than look at everything from a Western view. And like you said, the idol has to be able to interact with fans and not get angry if fans overstep their boundaries. Instead, idols are supposed to be more diplomatic and turn down fans, rather than just be rude to them. As you know, that's just K-pop culture.
With the odd cultural anomaly, like Jessi, at first, her Korean wasn't that good. But over time, she started to level up her Korean a lot and embrace Korean culture, while also keeping her American side. Her embracing Korea made her popular with the Korean fans.
As for Dream Academy's primary market, I think it will be the West, since there's also Geffen involved. I'm not sure how well the Western market will take to idols, since outside of a few examples, such as One Direction and Fifth Harmony, the Western market prefers soloists.
We'll see how this turns out!
The target is very obviously the West or at the very least audiences outside of Korea. The lack of Korean contestants at this stage speaks for itself. In the videos they put up they don’t even translate the English, they put subtitles only for the Korean and Japanese contestants, makes it clear the target audience is supposed to be fluent in English. And the contestant only sing English songs in the missions.
As far as their odds at success are concerned I genuinely believe that if the music is good, they have a very solid chance to be big. Currently people are experiencing a lot of nostalgia for pop culture from the 90´s but especially the 2000´s that had a lot of groups in them. Heck people are even begging for a *NSYNC comeback. Western audiences are more than interested in groups, the industry isn’t giving any bc for a while now it has chosen laziness to make profit.
Western labels no longer want to invest in BUILDING up artists, they want their artists to come pre packaged with an online following they built themselves, just so they can cash in on doing very little. That’s why there is an epidemic of mediocre soloists doing TikTok music right now. It’s low effort for the labels. And it’s not something that the public actually likes that much which is the reason why hardly any of those kids become stars. Even looking at soloists, the biggest names RIGHT NOW are still people who debuted in the 2000’s because they have an experience and dedication to aesthetics, performance and persona that many of the youngsters lack. For every Olivia and Billie you have ten thousands Whatshisface from TikTok varial’s song of the mouth.
Western audiences never moved on from groups. The groups were either poorly produced/managed (like 5th Harmony) or just got old and moved on with their lives. But if you manage to bring in true training and dedication to perfection mixed with interesting personalities and music, there are plenty of people who are gonna love it. In fact the Kpop audience that only wants Koreans is a tiny niche that is very vocal and bulk buys to full people into thinking their taste is mainstream. The general public is still disinterested in Korean music, and would still prefer their groups to speak English.
@@KookiesNolly1D fans are also very present even now. Like every 3 months 1D reunion trends on Twitter if any of the members have slight interaction. If hybe/ Geffen promotes them right then they have the potential to get big. Geffen promotes Olivia well so maybe this won't flop like people are saying.
@@KookiesNolly " In fact the Kpop audience that only wants Koreans is a tiny niche that is very vocal and bulk buys to full people into thinking their taste is mainstream. "
I sort of agree with this. K-pop is a niche "genre." This is the reason why I think that this show will not result in a successful group - it is trying to translate K-pop into English and sell it to a market that is not interested in K-pop.
However, within the K-pop market itself, the ones who want it to be Korean is *not* a tiny, vocal minority. We know this because creating acts with non-Asian members have been tried, and none have been particularly successful. The most successful of them, RaNia/BP RaNia/Blackswan, seems to become newsworthy only when a lineup change results in a non-Korean member from a new country, or when someone cries "racism" when the black member doesn't appear very much in the music video, before returning to nugu status. They are the exception that proves the rule, and they are not very exceptional (unlike, say, Dreamcatcher, whose rock/metal + pop concept has [finally] resulted in a music show win and caused other groups to incorporate such elements into their own concepts). With regard to bulk-buying, even assuming that it happens enough to noticeably affect the market, it still shows that such superfans *are* the market. K-pop is an industry, and when push comes to shove, sales are what matter.
Finally, a pedantic point: I am increasingly seeing (and annoyed by) the misuse of the word "disinterested." "Disinterested" doesn't mean "uninterested," it means "without bias." For example, service of a subpoena must be accomplished by a disinterested person, such as a sheriff's deputy or professional process server, rather than a party or someone associated with a party to the suit, for such process to be valid. "Disinterested" means "not on anyone's side," "neutral," or "no dog in the fight." "Uninterested" means "doesn't care about the topic." A judge, as a neutral arbiter, should be disinterested, but he must not be uninterested when it comes to the case - he is still familiar with and plays an active role in the proceedings. People who couldn't care less about K-pop are *uninterested,* not disinterested, in the genre/industry.
케이팝 그룹= 한국을 활동 기반으로 함,,,,글로벌 그룹= 전세계가 기반이고 한국에 머무르지 않는다,,,, 이 팀은 한국에서 훈련만 받은후에 미국으로 이동하여 미국이 활동 근거지 라고 한다,,,,아마도 전세계를 순회 공연이 주력일것으로 추정이 가능하다,,,, 이들에게 한국 문화를 주입할 이유가 없고 주입을 하려고 해도 실제로는 불가능하다,,,, 언어 장벽이 존재 해서이다,,이 드림아카데미 팀은 한국이나 케이팝 과는 사실상 무관해질것이다,,,,소속사가 HYBE라는 점일 뿐이고,, 케이팝과도 다르다,,케이팝과 다르다는 점이 이 사업의 마케팅 장점인데,,,자국인을 지지 하든가 한국을 싫어하는 해외팬을 목표로 하는것 같아
well it wont work because we as fans check if they are good people not just charisma on camera. this is how we get celebrities that get their pasts exposed and get cancelled. so we need to know them more especially when they are around each other.
Why is the show focusing on talent when they are supposed to pick these 20 most talented contestants out of 120k contestants already? If there are difference in talent or skills it is very very marginal at this point. To the average person, clearly looks and personality are what gonna make someone popular or not.
they vote base on the nation...this just feel like eurovision....look at adale she from slovakia ....how many slovakia that is a kpop fan that will vite for her ...not many ....that why she rank last....
honestly!! I have my own top picks and between 3 accounts, I tried to vote for her but it was so hard to save her no matter what :( and she is super talented too, I'm glad she has more followers on social media who are hyping her now.
I honestly think it can be bad as produce 101 success was based ot contestants having already a great promotion through the reality show itself even before they debuted. I mean kpop fandom is about personalities more then about skills honestly
One thing is that it's hybe so they have enough resources to hype up the group from scratch like they did with new jeans so if the songs will be great it can still work
Sorry I wrote the comment before finishing the video, and all my points are covered in the video
Haha, no worries! All good!
I wanted to know who the people in the comments are talking about. Because the two most voted and who have the support of their country are super talented. I don’t think it’s fair to invalidate the talent of Samara and Sophia saying that they are voting only by nationality. You talk as if they don’t have talent😒
I believe the comments were about multiple trainees.
As for me saying that the most voted trainees don't have talent, I never said, nor implied that at all. You're quite mistaken. In fact, I praised Sophia for being very talented.
I simply said that most fans vote because of nationality or they look like them.
Maybe they planned to show talent only first and then show some story when got down to the final 20. Like let’s find who is most talented and then find a group out of these talented people. So, someone with no talent can’t “sneak” in.
I hate evil editing. I hate fluff pieces too. But a person kinda has to pass a bar of decency for anyone to care about the talent.
Hallyu is all about the drama, its in the movies, kdramas and music, its like wrestling whete the fight is nothing without the proper drama
I don't watch this series, I find it a bit boring. They're very talented yes but without the personality / character, you really can't say they're well rounded.
my biggest problem with this show is that we dont get to see the girls up close and personal... theres no connection, theres no drama, no background aspects.. sure we're voting off who looks the best and who has the most talent but i wanna know each girls quirks, i wanna know their personality. it almost just feels empty if that makes sense. we're missing such a massive part of a Korean music survival show.
그것은 넷플릭스에서 다큐멘터리로 방영이 된다고 한다,,,이 영상은 사실은 광고 성격이 강하다고
there is no problem if its country vs country because everybody knows how talented all of them they are even better than the already debuted idols so no worries 😂
I think they are not making a kpop group, but a girl group who is trained in the kpop system. Imagine like what if, spice girls had kpop training... All in all i still don't think its that great of an idea to have international group, the kpop community is not ready for it... Their marketing will make all the difference
드림아카데미 방송에 대해 사람들이 불만이 많아 보이는데,,,
이 프로그램은 경쟁 과정을 넷플릭스에서 다큐멘터리로 제작해서
송출 예정이므로 HYBE측이 각 후보들의 리얼리티한 모습을 보여주지 못한다고,,
본 유튜브 방송은 일종의 넷플릭스의 본편에 대한 광고 성격이고 이점은 감안하여 시청하자,,,,,,^^
the NewJeans approached. Story and personality for later.
I think HYBE and Geffen will get this wrong, because this competition gives english based singers an advantage, also half of the girls are dancers mainly, the asian and latin girls are having to adjust to singing in english, and the english speaking countries girls do not have to sing in korean or japanese. Picking 6 girls is also not an acceptable amount in a global group. I would take any of the girls of the 20 group and make another group. I would follow that group more than the Hybe or Geffen girl group. Voting is not important in the decision of who makes it and who doesn't. I know HYBE will screw this up in the end. I am cheering the girls who don't make it to leave HYBE and Geffen and go on to be on another group with success. HYBE does not know the American market for a girl group. It is meshing talents to form a group, not getting 6 girls to conform to a HYBE sounding group. I am confident the girls not making this group could make a better girl group globally than the one HYBE and Geffen will create. The judging is not fair to all girls and the performances are edited and not live in one take. I hope all the girls not making this can band together and go find success without HYBE or Geffen.
I mean a group of 20 people would not land in the globs market most western countries(which is usually the main aim) aren’t used to groups over 5. And if they are international English is extremely important it’s the worlds common language, you can learn it as they go but most of the girls are already stable in that department. And hybe already had hit success in the global market out of most companies I believe they have the strongest knowledge to succeed
Can Dream Academy succeed without the hybe payola?
lol, that's actually a good question!
I don't want to sound mean. But people who are not from East Asia doing aegyo or who mimic Asian gestures is so fake to me. I hope they didn't have to do that. It feels insincere.
That's the shallow part of my concern. What I'm trying to say is, it's hard to view these girls with the same lens as we look at Korean artists. What made kpop interesting to us is not only the music but also the culture. It's difficult to take them seriously knowing that they're only mirroring what they see from other kpop groups. I would treat these shows like "Making the Band".
... You know this group is gonna be based in America right? They are not gonna be a kpop group
케이팝은 이제 세계화 나 국제화에 적극 나서는 흐름이고 이는 불가피 하다,,그리고 아시아출신에게만 케이팝 에 입단 자격이 주어져야 하는 이유는 없다고,,,아시아인 맴버의 한계는,,, 중국과 일본을 제외 하고 기타 아시아 시장이 작아서이다 ,,아이돌그룹 자체가 산업 비즈니스 이므로 수익을 극대화 해야 한다,,,그러니 전세계로 판로를 추구해야 하며 잘 팔리는 지역 위주로 선발이 필수이다,,,,
사실은 과거 아시아계가 케이팝내에서 우대는 받아왔으나 앞으로는 진입이 좁아 질것 같아
@@MewDenise And that is exactly why they should have made this show more like Making The Band. They need to have the girls focus on their vocal abilities more because most singers in America are very strong vocalist and are usually publicly shamed if they are not. I also don't think the songs that they have been covering are vocally challenging enough to actually showcase their true singing abilities. It would be great to hear them sing r&b and country music ballads to showcase their vocal skills more.
Where are the true vocalists in the groups? Do these girls even know how to harmonize together? From what I've heard from these girls I have not been impressed by any of their singing voices. Hopefully they get better in time.