How pros make pine look good with stain and dye
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2023
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▼ *IMPORTANT DETAILS ABOUT VIDEO:* ▼
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Bora Saw Edge Guides: amzn.to/2XByXhw
(The NGX system is my favorite, the WTX version is 2nd best)
*My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/
*My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works:* bridgecitytools.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
*Some other useful links:*
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★
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-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
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Hey SN, wondering about your recommendation as far as uv protection goes? Something with a matte finish?
Stumpy…you’re the best. So much REALLY helpful advice, delivered in such a relaxed, friendly manner. When can I expect your own TV program? Nah…this is better. I can tune in at any time. Thanks SO much again.
Even more pearls of wisdom. That was so interesting and it explains why some of my finishes have been patchy 🌞
Thanks for the education about the physical nature of pine. This helps me to understand the staining process better.
Thank you for another great set of tips for woodworking. I've worked with sealers in the past with excellent results. Thank you!
Another clear explanation. Thank you! I learn so much from your videos. After some very streaky early projects I just stuck with clear finishes. Now I understand the “why” I think I’ll try again with different finishes 👍
Great explanation of why pine accepts stain the way it does. I had not known about the differences between early and late wood rings. I willl absolutely be using a pre-stain or sealer for my next pine project. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Very good! I like most of your videos. This is one of the most informative.
Good presentation. I learned the pine-splotch effect the hard way when installing and staining bead-board (4’ x 8’ sheets). After we had 3 sheets installed and stained we saw the splotch. We pulled them down and replaced them. We did a quick research on the problem and ended up using Minwax PRE-STAIN - was VERY easy to apply - is a watery consistency- THEN let dry and stained with Minwax Golden Oak - the result was very close to other similarly stained oak and ash paneling in the house - no splotching - and blends in nicely. Owner was very happy with results.
I often add a heavier weight glycol to water based stains intended for soft woods, this allows the the stain to remain on top of the wood, allowing time to brush the stain out evenly, no wiping necessary. Vegetable glycerine also works as it is nearly chemically identical to glycol.
I believe this also used this with water based dye stains.
Thank you James! Another way to treat pine is to stain it with a diluted solution of artists acrylic paint before applying a clear finish. This allows for all kinds of color possibilities.
Great info that has come at the right time. I will be working with a lot of pine next week. Thanks.
thank you for this! i'm a big fan of pine (when i think it looks good) and appreciate you sharing on the topic.
omg thank you. I'm fairly new to woodworking and I was wondering why i couldn't get pine to look good with colored stain when my cedar looked fine with stain. Now I know that what I would like to do with pine isn't feasible with the stain I would like to use. I've been beating my head against the wall and tried everything, prestaining and everything.
In reference to growth rings, I remember a class lesson that goes something like this. I had a botany Professor (Barkley) who grew up on an almond farm in California. The almond trees in one area were 40 years old, so they dozed them out. To his surprise, there were 200 growth rings in the tree trunks. You might notice that I call them growth rings instead of annual growth rings. They had irrigated the trees 5 times each year. I don't know if coniferous trees are different, but tree rings in almond trees (at least) don't indicate how old the trees are but how many growth periods the tree experienced. .
Interesting 🤔
I did not intend to learn anything today.
Man I'm always amazed and your level of knowledge on all things wood and wood working. Stains for me are the hardest but I love all manor of oils. Thanks
I like that explanation about grain reversal. I had observed the effect but never knew why that was.
That said, the approach I use for getting a good looking, blotch free, staining on conifer lumber is to just use the minwax red mahogany stain. It always comes out looking amazing on projects I build using construction 2x4s and common boards.
I noticed your Bridge City Tool wall many times. Recently I was in the hospital. As you know BCT just had their 40th years celebration. While hanging out in the hospital I was on pain meds and had my nurse help me get to my credit card. Not once, but twice! When I got home the boxes started arriving. I have no regrets. My wife might have a bit of a problem when the Visa statement arrives! But I mean really…. How can one possibly say “NO” to pricing like they had? Nothing is a sweet as the sound of a plane iron peeling away a ribbon of Oregon Black Walnut. The feel and sound like none other. Bridge City tools entice you to be a better woodworker. Thank You for your presentations on what are truly outstanding tools. As a representative for fine tooling you are top tier. Well done…..
What a GREAT video for us pine nuts who aren't too savvy with finishing techniques but like to turn out a new pine something-or-other every year. Am now a paste wax stain guy, thanks for ending my suffering.
Southern Yellow Pine is underrated just on it's own. Especially if you hand plane it instead of sanding; those latewood streaks look like glistening rivers of honey in the wood. You can really bring some warmth to a room with a planed and finished SYP piece.
Thanks for all the tips, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
And happy holidays!
You got it again, Stump. Pre-stain conditioner and experimentation is how you get good results with pine/spruce/etc. I had one such project come out great with a stain/poly combination product, others not so good. Dye has worked for me, but sometimes blotchy. Pre-stain conditioner seems most reliable.
As you said, pine, spruce, fir, cedar, etc., with a clear finish, will age to a really attractive look.
One big factor I think you covered in an earlier video, is give your wood time to dry in your shop before finishing. It will give more consistent results with dye or stain.
Appreciate the great content.
Very informative and great timing, my wife wants me to make a corner cupboard in pine after the new year.
Great info Thanks!
Wow... I didn't know that. Always thought I was doing something wrong in my first crafts made from wood (I always use pine). Thank you very much for your advices. Congrats from Mexico. 😀
Thank you, this was fascinating.
Dang it dude, just the video I have been looking for , for my staining technique on my t&g pine projects!!! Thank you so so much for the info!!! Cheers from Alabama
If your going to stain pine i have some additional advice not covered in this video.
You can use water based stain made by saaman and it is very effective.
The other option is to use lighter colored stains that only try to change the color by a shade or two. This will generally work because the change is to subtle to really notice the splotches.
I actually recommend the second method above the first. No matter what color you stain your pine it will never look like the expensive walnut because its going to lack the grain structure.
"...like a glaze..." A perfect prompt to help with visualisation of the way that gel finish sits, rather than being absorbed. Thank you!
I have a walnut taste on a pine budget. I have learned all the tips and tricks you mentioned and so many more!
Thanks 👍 for the ideas Stumpy. I like pine and appreciate finishing tips! 😊😊😊❤❤❤
Hi James. Really found the tracheid part interesting, and it sent me down a xylem rabbit-hole. I resurfaced my pine kitchen floors with a coat of water based Cabothane, followed by three coats with a little light-mahogany stain mixed in, then a clear coat on top. Though it has a million dents from 22 years of wear since - it's pine after all - it still looks gorgeously golden and shiny. Pine can be beautiful and is so underrated!
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
I've been watching your channel for about a year now and I really like the way you do your sponsor segways much better than other UA-camrs. At first it was a bit jarring having the segment at the end of the video, but having them at the end helps your video be more concise. plus I don't have to worry that when I skip past it that I'm missing part of the video.
To each their own, but the charm of pine wood furniture is that the stain doesn't absorb evenly.
Thanks for another great explanation of the staining process. I love the "reverse stain" of pine! But that is just me.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
I’m glad you concluded with just letting pine be pine and not staining it.
Big fan of Zinsser wax free shellac. Dilute 50% with DA (4lb cut shellac). Apply in thin coats, sanding with 320 between. Stop when a uniform shiny surface remains (wood stopped absorbing sealer), sand lightly and apply finish/color of choice.
With a sprayer you can tint the sealer directly and coat to the desired color, seal with a full strength coat then finish as desired.
I have made a number of pieces of furniture using white pine. The only finish I applied is clear poly. After a number of years, the furniture has turned a beautiful golden aged look.
Thanks
Thank you!!
Great timing once again. Im getting ready to stain a pine headboard that i built for my mother-in-law.
How to stain pine: don't. Use a 1lb cut of amber shellac instead. Multiple applications give the pine a nice warm finish.
Good to know. I always prefer shellac anyway.
Thanks. I love shellac as a finish, and just got a can of amber.
Try to ebonize it instead of staining, it doesn't get really dark since the wood doesn't have that much tanines but gets a warm color instead
@@gosonegr That’s funny. Maybe not proper ebonizing, but I have the stuff together to do a couple jars of vinegar and steel wool tomorrow morning. After a couple weeks, I want to test it out on various scraps. I know pine doesn’t have a lot of tannins, but I’m curious how different types react. I have some yellow pine, random SPF, and pieces of a 20 year old pallet I want to experiment with along with “real” wood.
@@mikesalmo That's a legit Iron Oxide ebonizing solution. You can mitigate the lower amounts of tannins in many woods to some degree by adding some strong coffee/grounds applied first and allowed to dry fully. If both solutions are wet during an application, the reaction will occur more in your brush/rag than on the wood. If I want pine/softwoods a different color other than black, I'll just add a tiny dab of orange/brown oil paints to a handful of coats of BLO
Things have certainly changed around here. I remember when this was all farm land as far the eye could see. Old man Peabody owned all of this. He had this crazy idea about breeding pine trees.
Did old Mr. Peabody also have a coal train?
When I build a project out of pine, I use a product called even up. It’s the stain base that Has no dyes in it it’s just clear it goes on and seals the grain nicely. Then when it dries I go over it with my regular stain that has the dyes or pigments in it. The piece comes out very uniformly colored and even. Jim
I personally like how pine finishes out, if done right to me it looks outstanding, I get tons of people asking type of wood on projects cause it looks so good, I laugh and say pine lol .but generally people don't know if pine is good or not I've found, it does not have to be high end hard wood for most people I come across anyway...its got great character to me....
I kinda like the look of untreated and stained pine. The grain reversal is a neat look to the finish.
I also have sealed and stained pine like you recommend and it also looks good.
I agree. I would say, “What’s the big deal?”
I love my furniture that I just poly or spar varnish the unstained pine. It ages to a very goog looking yellowish color. I have also torched and used pre-stain conditioner all for very good results.
Please show us some examples of the sealing/staining results. Good vid. Thanks
My goto way for pine is a matt, water-based poly-urethane made for floors and stairs. It looks great, imo, especially when the wood was exposed to sunlight for a few weeks/months.
I thought your timing on this video about pine was fitting!
I was milling pine earlier today and I actually found the rarest piece of wood I've ever seen today.
I'm sure you've all seen spalted maple before, and hopefully some of you have seen spalted beech or hickory, but this was the first time I've ever seen spalted white pine! I'm sure I've seen it before in rotted to hell mushy pine that's completely unusable, but never in a solid piece of pine, looking like somebody didn't remind this log it isn't sugar maple.
As one of the easiest to mill and most commonly used woods in my area, I definitely love pine, but this little piece of wood is literally about 3 board feet in a million
You are full of it as usual. Of all the channels I subscribe to, you are fantastic. With so much information, write several books. I will purchase all of them. Thank you, God Bless, Stay Safe, and keep on .😂❤
Telling people they "are full of it" is typically an insult...
My go to method is to stain and sand. End result is a beautiful rustic look. If you match grain patterns and knots, it looks better than any hardwood.
Another thing to be aware with pine is if one is using a wet rag and a hot iron to iron out dents. I worked for a major wood window and door manufacturing company and they were getting a number of customer dissatisfaction complaints about stain being blotchy particularly on doors with large surface area. After some testing it was found to be caused by the amount of steam/hot iron dent removal that was being done by the assembly people.
My Ryobi 6" saw didn't sit well on the Bora sled, so I 3D printed my own parts to mate the saw with the Bora track, and I get very accurate cuts from it now.
I've been working with a lot fir lately, making trim work and a barn door for the house. I'm staining it with a "dark walnut" danish oil. Personally, the "blotchy" look bothers me none at all. It's just the character of the wood. And most importantly my "boss" likes it 😁
It's also very important to get the best possible surface finish. Any tool marks or damaged grain will be accentuated by the stain.
Try finishing Bradford Pear, it's a wide grain hardwood since it's not unusual for the trunk to gain an inch in diameter every year. I've got some lumber from a 35 year old tree. Finished out, it resembles Cherry.
nice bandsaw mate
The best use I have found for pine is as kindking!
I still have a can (unopened) of Charles Neil's "Blotch Control"! And years ago, Charles warned me not to sand to fine of a grit when using his blotch control or any other pre-finish-coat treatment. He advised to stop sanding at 220 or 240 grit, apply one or two coats of conditioner, then sand to whatever finer grit made me happy. Charles was a heck of good guy ... I miss him!
Yes, he was very generous with his time and knowledge. He's missed!
I use Briwax all the time for my wood carvings. I have found you need to use a sealer to prevent extreme darkening of the end grain. Since there is end grain all over a carving, the Briwax wood provide a bad result if you did not seal it. Also your sanding has to be perfect or you will get a spotchy result. So I recommend testing your colored wax before using it on a finished project.
Does "early wood" cover "morni... Nevermind.
Another good vid, James!
I think gel stain is the solution if you want a darker appearance, but you need to practice a lot before doing it on your good project. I built myself a pine table to use as a desk and I practiced a little bit with the gel stain but when I actually put it on the top of the table I made a big mess and ended up sanding it all off and just using poly.
I usually apply clear varnish as a first coat, then any other varnish (like walnut or oak)
What I have found works very well is to use a water based stain, apply it reasonably liberally with a rag and immediately wipe it off. That first thin coat takes care of blotching. Successive coats go on nicely for an even finish.
What about pre-stain? I get great results on pine by flooding it with pre-stain and letting that soak before adding oigmented stain.
I finish pine the same way I finish cherry - with tranfast or transtint dye added to shellac, then clear poly over the top.
This is the way.
I like the odd finish with staining pine give it more character
My secret to make Pine look good is to appreciate this unique feature : It's Pine, and when you apply finish, it highlights....Pine.
When you varnish it, whether there is stain or not, the rings are highlighted and that's what I like.
I use SAMAN water based or hybrid oil varnish or their varnish with stain (Canadian made products) and they're my favorite AND cheaper.
Thank you James. Water and glue. Well worth some experiments.
I’d like to know more about the color paste wax… I couldn’t find which of your other videos had info? Could you help me out with brand recommendations etc? I’m looking to make a very natural light brown finish on a headboard I made out of Lowe’s “white wood”.
"Dr. Stainlove, or How I Learned to Love the Blonde"
I'm a fan of your last suggestion. You don't need to tart up pine to try to imitate a hard wood. A nice piece of pine with a clear or no more than honey finish looks really nice.
Growing up I watched my dad and his dad work in the woodshop. They would always use walnut or something called puritan pine. I always wondered why it always looked so splotchy. I just took what they did and lived with the look, convincing myself that was just the way things were until I got into High School Shop and made a dresser out of actual walnut. Since then I have been mostly ignoring pine because of the way the stains looked. Now I know better and will be buying dad a steak dinner when I go home in a couple of weeks.
"puritan pine" was an old Minwax stain color. It was a very light brown.
Stumpy, if you know a way to make stained plywood look good I'm all ears!
Even with all the tricks I've used to make pine and poplar look great I've had no luck staining a pair of plywood speaker cabs which I ended up painting black in frustration.
Pine is fine
You my boy blue
I burn my pine projects then brush off the char. It darkens the late wood and the brush lightens the early wood. Looks great
Ben Moore had a product called neutral blender. Great for birch.
What are your thoughts an ebonizer? That seems to evenout pine and you can apply water based top coats.
Nice way to give pine a chance! I’ve seen enough videos of “stay away from pine”. I like the gel stains, but my last project, a bench made of SPF dimensional lumber, not sure if it was pine, i stained it (let it dry) and shellacked it and finished with clear urethane and a month later it still smells a bit. Put a lot of work into finishing. No it sure where it went wrong. I’ll have to sand it down and start again but i would like to know why this happened.
Nothing you did would cause a lingering smell unless the urethane just hasn't fully cured, yet. I'd give it some more time.
I use pine a lot and have had some very good luck with a coat, or two, of wax over the jell stain.
As a wood turner, pine has a lot of challenges with tear-out and finishing. But the end result is worth the effort.
You can also pre treat with water
This is off topic from this video, sorry. What type of finish do you recommend for a wood turned bowl vessel sink? I used a polycrylic, but it turns kind of soft and white colored when water gets in it. It dries later and looks back to normal, but there must be something better suited for this application.
It's beautiful with clear varnish. I'm not a fan of stain on any wood, with the exception of a mission oak finish.
I just first coat pine with oil varnish for some amber. Successive coats would be clear water based varnish. Don’t get me started on muddy looking satin varnish on floors! If you want less gloss let time and wear get you there.
I like to use the Amber tone Polyurethane. It give a very different look to pine. If you use several thin coats, it will give the grain a very Deep appearance. I will actually search through a complete stack (pallet)? of boards to find ones that have light spalting and character. I LOVE a clear finish on pine.
Exactly what I do. I love pine. Especially tight grain old growth stuff. It's beautiful and my house is full of things made from it. I do not stain anything. Usually arm r seal in thin coats.
@@jerryhoogeveen Our house was completed in the year 1900. We have old growth pine EVERYWHERE. Basically the entire house is made of pine. For example: the right hand side of the door casing going into the kitchen, my wife counted over 150 grain lines in just over 2 inches of the width and the plank is 6.5 inches wide. She said that she would have counted all the way across but it was hurting her eyes.
@@c.blakerockhart1128 sounds like a beautiful house!
@@jerryhoogeveen Thank you. It WAS at one time, and when we get through UNremodeling what has Been done in the past 60 years, it Will be again. We took off over 12 pounds of paint from the bathroom door to reveal a BEAUTIFUL 6 panel pine door. We have done the bathroom, kitchen, and living room so far. We still have the 2 bedrooms, and the den, and dining room to go. We've already replaced the 2 windows in the bedroom. They are 38" × 90" . that's actually bigger than the doors. And of course they are just giving them away. ( not really). I have already put in over 1000 (one thousand) feet of wire, and I still have 3 rooms to go. But it will be our forever home. Oh, and it still has the ORIGINAL metal roof.
Also seems like staining it with a color that is between the light and dark woods would also maybe work, or starting with a conifer that is darker or redder naturally, like fir or cedar.
Big second for the Bora track system! Most of my work is NOT in the shop, and being able to break down plywood on the fly is huge. No need to use a portable tablesaw that is generally unsuited (and often unsafe) to handle sheet goods. Please note that Bora has two different systems that are not really compatible.
Back in the 60s I began looking at antique books in the library. Nearly all of them concentrated on New England furniture, mostly from very wealthy people in Newport, Philadelphia, New York and Boston. Occasionally they might show something from Charleston. They never showed any primitive or plain furniture. The authors tended to be snobbish and looked down on pine and any thing Southern. The only woods they considered proper were mahogany, walnut, cherry, and maybe occasionally oak.
The notion that pine is not good for furniture persists to this day. But if you look with an open mind, you can find some very beautiful pieces of furniture made of pine.
I made a bookcase from some old pine boards. I finished it with a glaze that partially hid the grain, but also made a faux grain pattern of its own. No one could guess what wood it was. People could not believe it was pine. It wasn't intended to imitate any wood. A faux finish that looked pretty.
Especially in the 60s and 70s, the rage for built in shelves and cabinets was to stain them with walnut stain. Looked awful! But it was in style!
I absolutely love lighter colored woods, so I wish more things were made with non-stained pine.
A soap finish? Please tell me more
Pine looks the best when you slap it in some walls and drywall over it. Thanks for the video!
😂😂
in Germany we call these revers grain stains, negative stain and the stains that intense the nutral grain positive stains
Ha! Did your Harvey logo peel of the front of your table saw base? Mine did.
Pre treating the wood with mineral spirits will give an even stain applied over it
for me coloured hard wax oil and coloured wax are the way to go at commercial workplace or where you dont want to spend much time on Something.
Stain is always a high risk for a small change. Sanding one swip to much van ruin a project at a point where only the clear coat is missing to finish it. Also corners are very difficult. If I have to "fake" the wood colour anyway the wax products are much impler to use and forgiving if you. Also you can always reproduce it quite good which can be impossible with stain