Great work Dale. I had to chuckle when you were putting the tip on the dial gauge. That's where I would have dripped it and it would have ended up 10 foot away under a workbench.
I know Jack, I have done it. Lucky that time, I guess. You know as well as I do, when the camera is rolling anything and everything happens, except what you want to. Thanks buddy.
back in the 60s i flat track raced a 1969 Suzuki TS 250 slightly modified . had a local dealer sponsor the motorcycle. the dealer mechanic removed the oil injection and we ran 32 to 1 pre mix no issues.
Lots of folks do that without problems. The mag side bearing has an Oil Guide to keep the oil in the bearing from the injection port. To run premix you need to remove the guide so oil can get to the bearing from your premix. It probably gets enough but the shop I worked at we removed that oil guide for all the race machines.
Hi there Dale, just discovered your channel. Really enjoyed your easy going and explanation process you provide to us. Looking forward to all your other video's. I have a Suzuki GT750 triple crank I would like to do so am hoping you cover resealing 3 cyl cranks somewhere in your library
I always use a grinder to cut the connecting rod pin/bolt in two pieces, then no plate to put between the webs is needed. Also, but a little more work?: (If you have a lathe) Weld the two crankshaft webs together and before disassembly, by use a 3 mm tick plate, wide enough that you can spot weld on both left and right crankshaft webs, then it is locked in place, just as it was. Be sure to check if it is straight before doing this, if not, it's pointless, however if you are sure that it has newer been touched before and that it is straight, I prefer to spot weld the two webs together with a 3 mm plate, because then it will be exactly as it was. Then to get out the bolt without pressing it through both webs (now cut at two places as close to each web as possible) that keeps together the two webs, I press as they are together, then make a new cut, and press again and make a new cut, until it is out, do the same with the otter side, and you get out the two pins without pressing thought both holes and that's good because u newer know the exact status of the pin. If you now have a press bench that can handle to press thought both webs, you just press it, and you are done, now put the thing in the lathe and turn off the welded plate until all welds are gone, now you have an exact crankshaft rebuild, meaning an exact copy of how it was. I suggest checking the crankshaft before welding, I always do, if it is factory piece, it's a clear go, to weld. Make sure you do not weld from one side to the otter in one go, this might drag the webs out of true. I spot weld, just like you would tighten a cylinder top, systematically... Then done with that, I weld longer, still systematically, until it's 50-60% welded all around. No need to do 100%. I let the webs cool down a bit in between the welds. This method I haven't seen anywhere else, I don't know if I am the inventor of it or not, (who cares) but it has always worked well for me, and the nice part is that, well if u have a crankshaft that has newer been touched before, it is true and will stay true during the whole process. The good part then is that u don't need to do any adjustment when you have turned away the welds in the lathe. Be sure to use the center support in the lathe and be sure to not overdo the cuts as you must cut at low speed. Doing it this way, if you are 100% sure it has newer been touched before, you don't even need any dial in micrometers. It was in 1986 when I didn't have any equipment for measuring, or any lathe or milling to make equipment, that I didn't see any other way at hand to do it. At the time, I used a grinder to carefully remove the welds. And ever since I have done it this way, except for now, I have a lathe. Works fine, but as said, only if you are 100% sure it has newer been rebuilt before, then u don't even need anything to measure. And as long you're sure that the welds and the plate are strong enough, this is a very quick method in my opinion. However, the cons is that you need to be very careful to center the connecting rod when doing this, if not it's goodbye to one or both the needle bearing and the connecting rood. I use a nylon ring inside the needle bearing, approx 1.5 mm thick and almost like a piston ring, this nylon ring will prevent the needles to fall out and will move out as you press. Also, I lift the needle bearing up by pressing the nylon ring from below web hole, so that the bearing act as a start for centering. Sounds complicated? Well, for me, it's the easiest way. I have checked this after turning away the welds, its dial in, or an exact copy of the old true settings.
Wow, this just might be my longest comment to date. Hey thanks for the comment, and for watching. I have had to cut the rod and pin on a couple cranks before, but it was because i just could not press it apart. Never tried the welding method you are talking about. I always check runout before disassembly and almost without exception the crank halfs are not within tolerance. So I have to do it this way anyway. But hey, the proceedure you spoke of is certianly worth thinking about and keeping in mind if you find one that is perfect to start. I can sure see how it would save a lot of time and effort. Thanks for your comment and for watching, and thanks for sharing.
Dale: Did you mike the difference in thickness between the new thrust washers and the old ( would this make it acceptable to have a slightly tighter crank that what you took apart?
Yes, you could do that, but really what you are looking for is the same crank web width as original. The thrust washers really don't wear much. Essentially if your bearing and rod was still good and only your axial play was over, you could just press together to eliminate the excess. But not really practical. I always measure the web at the pin and 180 degrees from the pin and make a note of that measurement before I press it apart. Because if it's too wide, there will not be enough room in the cases, and it will bind up when installed and cases put back together. Bottom line, try to get the web width as close as original. If it's been apart before you will need to, and it's a good idea anyway, measure the case halves to make sure you have room in them to fit the assembled crank. Can't remember if I did the case measurement on this video or not. But on many of the other cranks I have rebuilt I did do the case measurements using a depth gauge and a parallel and adding the two measurements together to verify the crank will fit. On most of the Yamaha's I have data that shows the web width of the cranks, I have never seen that info for the Suzuki's though. So that's why it's so necessary to measure. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Nice work!! Question: At 17:14 how did you know how far to press the crank pin in to ensure proper "shake" and play?. I see how you measured when pressing the other half, but how do you ensure both sides are accurate? Hope this is making sense. Thank you!! One of the best video series I've seen. Recommended it many times.
When installing the pin at that point it is just pressed in till it is flush with the crankshaft half. I pressed it till it stopped against the steel press plate under it. Before I disassembed I measured the distance with a feeler gage between the rod and crank halves. Then when pressing the other half on, you try to get the same feeler gauge reading. That will put you ball park "shake" at the top end of the rod.
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks, Dale! So if I understand right you measured the total play on both sides with thrust washers and bearing pushed to one side and then duplicated this with a press. The resulting play would then be evenly divided by each side, so to speak. I thought you measured each side individually hence my confusion. A true gentleman. Thank you.
Dale i am looking at a good 1973 TC-100, do you know if the TC 125 is mostly similar? noticed the left side case is a different shape ,but it has the duel range trans.
Frank, the 100 is a rotary valve engine (carb in side RH case) and the 125 is piston port (carb behind cylinder) but the inside workings of both are similar, ie. transmission, crankshaft etc, just the induction is different.
Hi Dale the pin is bigger on the 1980 tc100 do you think it may work or is piston somehow different because rotary valve I know you probably dont know but do you think its worth a shot
John, I really dont know, my thought is the piston skirt is different. Is that model the same bore and stroke? My advice would be, take a deep breath, order the correct parts (from Suzuki) and give it another shot. Just not sure on mixing parts, usually ends up a waste of time and money. Just my 2 cents worth.
www.ebay.com/itm/152410822974?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=DkaQZDgTS06&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=sOLagcZkTfi&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY This is one on Ebay, but since I don't know what model or year you have you will need to do your homework and make sure this is the one for your machine.
Hi Dale, I'm working on a TS100 that seems to have an issue pulling fuel through the crankcase. Good flow from petcock, float needle. Will start on starter fluid easily. Any advice on where to start looking? I was hoping to get by without a full rebuild!
Hi John, thanks for your comment. Its probably crankshaft seals, I would start with the magneto side. I think it can be changed without splitting the cases. Not so with the clutch side. You might also check the carburetor boot were the carb fits to the rotary valve. That's my best guess without having it in front of me. Make sure the air cleaner is not plugged too. Hope I have been some help. Good luck, and thanks for watchin.
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks for the reply. After getting back to it, looks like just the fuel inlet was plugged up + float needle sticking. All good now.
hi dale i have question I went to put my piston on and the piston pin is smaller on my old crank than on my new crank so if i can I want to buy new piston and pin that will fit Only reason I think it may work is because i bought crank that was suppose to be for tc 100 and most cranks listed are good for ts or tc 100 or 125 so im hoping i can get piston and pin instead of taking it all back apart and i would not know if i was buying wrong one again anyway. my old pin was about 472 thousand or 11.988 mm diameter and i need 557 thousands or 14.147 mm any help or thoughts thanks john
John, I just did some looking on Rocky mountain ATV/MC. This is what I found. In 1978 the TS100 uses the same connecting rod as my 74 TC125, looks like the last year for the TC100 must have been 1977. 1978 appears to be the year they dropped the rotary valve for the power reed system. I dont know what year your bike is but I think if it is a rotary valve model that is what is messing you up. Take a look at there site, I like it better than partzillia's. You can just point at the number and get the part number. Dont think this is what you want to hear, but I think you will have to get the earlier rod. Man we all make mistakes, have made my fair share for sure. Hope this is some kind of help.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks I have been looking online and i think i'm going to have to pull it all back apart well this time will easier .I was careful to put it all back together right so this wouldn't happen and yes it is rotary valve and yes I put rotary valve back together so mark on it was on key way anyway thanks
But Sir!, everything was going perfect until you hit it on the bench, probably bringing the crankshaft out of alignment. Why you didn't use the press like when extracting the pin, to support just one half before hitting it with the hammer? Apart of that, excellent video. Just friendly criticism.
Thanks for watching, everyone does things different, fifty years ago while working at a Suzuki shop this is how it was done. I tried the press once...not enough control over movement. The Standard in the industry has always been sharp deliberate strikes with a brass or copper hammer. After each strike the crank is reinstalled between centers to check for runout. Believe it or not it does work. Hey Im always open to new ideas, and better ways. Thank you Sir.
@Shed Life Very interesting. Good looking contraptions. I just dont do enough of them to warrant that kind of equipment. Generally if I overshoot the clearance I just use machinist wedges to move it back were it needs to be. That being said, I do have two more to do in the not to distant future.
I got a machinest and he has an actual machinest shop . It what he does every day . it's his job and has been for 55 years . I pay for the quality and he backs his work . In other words , I pay for warrantied work from a professional. I help his economic out look he gives me good deals . he is my guy . that's how it's supposed to work . I don't think 130 for a crank rebuild is too high a price to pay for warrantied work from a professional machinest. Hell I got a new sleeve and piston fit for 70 bucks . In fact I looked for a sleeve for almost a year . la sleeve said no dice . My guy called his " buddy" at la sleeve anf had him surch the shelves . You know what , his buddy found the only one ... It was in the wrong spot on the shelf . Do you have a buddy at la sleeve? It's great you can do this . but I want as good as the company that made the bike . I can't get kawasaki to do it so I get the next best thing . that be the best machinest I can find with the best tools at his disposal. I don't doubt you can . it looks as though you now what you got to do . A little crude on the mesuring .
Hi, what a great story, I love it when everything works out. It's great to have friends you can count on. Especially when things are looking a little bleak, and they come through for you. I'm glad you have found a machinist you can trust and that does better than factory work that you expect. Those kind of people are hard to find and worth every cent you pay them. Thanks again for the most wonderful story, and for watching the channel.
Great work Dale. I had to chuckle when you were putting the tip on the dial gauge. That's where I would have dripped it and it would have ended up 10 foot away under a workbench.
I know Jack, I have done it. Lucky that time, I guess. You know as well as I do, when the camera is rolling anything and everything happens, except what you want to. Thanks buddy.
back in the 60s i flat track raced a 1969 Suzuki TS 250 slightly modified . had a local dealer sponsor the motorcycle. the dealer mechanic removed the oil injection and we ran 32 to 1 pre mix no issues.
Lots of folks do that without problems. The mag side bearing has an Oil Guide to keep the oil in the bearing from the injection port. To run premix you need to remove the guide so oil can get to the bearing from your premix. It probably gets enough but the shop I worked at we removed that oil guide for all the race machines.
Wow. Your video content inspires me to start build my Suzuki tsr 125. Somehow ts125 and TC have same conrods . Watching here from Philippines. 😅🏍️
Nice, glad my old videos are helping some people. Good luck with your build and thanks for following the channel.
Hi there Dale, just discovered your channel. Really enjoyed your easy going and explanation process you provide to us. Looking forward to all your other video's. I have a Suzuki GT750 triple crank I would like to do so am hoping you cover resealing 3 cyl cranks somewhere in your library
Welcome Kevin, thank you for the kind words. Not sure on the triple crank, I have a 380 that may need it on day.
That is a lot of work to get it right. Thanks for sharing brother.
Its not hard to do, but it does take a fair amount of time adjusting it to get the runout minimized.
thanks for the info. Helpful information when i check my ts 400 crankshaft alignment.
thanks for the video very helpful takes all the guess work out your very good mechanic and machinist
Thanks for the kind words John. Will be coming out with the transmission, engine assembly soon.
It will be a lot easier to true if you just start the second side on and true it. Then carefully press it on the rest of the way.
I always use a grinder to cut the connecting rod pin/bolt in two pieces, then no plate to put between the webs is needed. Also, but a little more work?: (If you have a lathe) Weld the two crankshaft webs together and before disassembly, by use a 3 mm tick plate, wide enough that you can spot weld on both left and right crankshaft webs, then it is locked in place, just as it was. Be sure to check if it is straight before doing this, if not, it's pointless, however if you are sure that it has newer been touched before and that it is straight, I prefer to spot weld the two webs together with a 3 mm plate, because then it will be exactly as it was.
Then to get out the bolt without pressing it through both webs (now cut at two places as close to each web as possible) that keeps together the two webs, I press as they are together, then make a new cut, and press again and make a new cut, until it is out, do the same with the otter side, and you get out the two pins without pressing thought both holes and that's good because u newer know the exact status of the pin.
If you now have a press bench that can handle to press thought both webs, you just press it, and you are done, now put the thing in the lathe and turn off the welded plate until all welds are gone, now you have an exact crankshaft rebuild, meaning an exact copy of how it was.
I suggest checking the crankshaft before welding, I always do, if it is factory piece, it's a clear go, to weld.
Make sure you do not weld from one side to the otter in one go, this might drag the webs out of true. I spot weld, just like you would tighten a cylinder top, systematically... Then done with that, I weld longer, still systematically, until it's 50-60% welded all around. No need to do 100%. I let the webs cool down a bit in between the welds.
This method I haven't seen anywhere else, I don't know if I am the inventor of it or not, (who cares) but it has always worked well for me, and the nice part is that, well if u have a crankshaft that has newer been touched before, it is true and will stay true during the whole process.
The good part then is that u don't need to do any adjustment when you have turned away the welds in the lathe. Be sure to use the center support in the lathe and be sure to not overdo the cuts as you must cut at low speed.
Doing it this way, if you are 100% sure it has newer been touched before, you don't even need any dial in micrometers. It was in 1986 when I didn't have any equipment for measuring, or any lathe or milling to make equipment, that I didn't see any other way at hand to do it. At the time, I used a grinder to carefully remove the welds. And ever since I have done it this way, except for now, I have a lathe. Works fine, but as said, only if you are 100% sure it has newer been rebuilt before, then u don't even need anything to measure. And as long you're sure that the welds and the plate are strong enough, this is a very quick method in my opinion.
However, the cons is that you need to be very careful to center the connecting rod when doing this, if not it's goodbye to one or both the needle bearing and the connecting rood. I use a nylon ring inside the needle bearing, approx 1.5 mm thick and almost like a piston ring, this nylon ring will prevent the needles to fall out and will move out as you press. Also, I lift the needle bearing up by pressing the nylon ring from below web hole, so that the bearing act as a start for centering. Sounds complicated? Well, for me, it's the easiest way.
I have checked this after turning away the welds, its dial in, or an exact copy of the old true settings.
Wow, this just might be my longest comment to date. Hey thanks for the comment, and for watching. I have had to cut the rod and pin on a couple cranks before, but it was because i just could not press it apart. Never tried the welding method you are talking about. I always check runout before disassembly and almost without exception the crank halfs are not within tolerance. So I have to do it this way anyway. But hey, the proceedure you spoke of is certianly worth thinking about and keeping in mind if you find one that is perfect to start. I can sure see how it would save a lot of time and effort. Thanks for your comment and for watching, and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing brother.
Dale: Did you mike the difference in thickness between the new thrust washers and the old ( would this make it acceptable to have a slightly tighter crank that what you took apart?
Yes, you could do that, but really what you are looking for is the same crank web width as original. The thrust washers really don't wear much. Essentially if your bearing and rod was still good and only your axial play was over, you could just press together to eliminate the excess. But not really practical. I always measure the web at the pin and 180 degrees from the pin and make a note of that measurement before I press it apart. Because if it's too wide, there will not be enough room in the cases, and it will bind up when installed and cases put back together. Bottom line, try to get the web width as close as original. If it's been apart before you will need to, and it's a good idea anyway, measure the case halves to make sure you have room in them to fit the assembled crank. Can't remember if I did the case measurement on this video or not. But on many of the other cranks I have rebuilt I did do the case measurements using a depth gauge and a parallel and adding the two measurements together to verify the crank will fit. On most of the Yamaha's I have data that shows the web width of the cranks, I have never seen that info for the Suzuki's though. So that's why it's so necessary to measure. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Nice job! do you have to re-check with dial indicator when assembling the engine?
No not necessary. Thank you for watchin.
Nice work!! Question: At 17:14 how did you know how far to press the crank pin in to ensure proper "shake" and play?. I see how you measured when pressing the other half, but how do you ensure both sides are accurate? Hope this is making sense. Thank you!! One of the best video series I've seen. Recommended it many times.
When installing the pin at that point it is just pressed in till it is flush with the crankshaft half. I pressed it till it stopped against the steel press plate under it. Before I disassembed I measured the distance with a feeler gage between the rod and crank halves. Then when pressing the other half on, you try to get the same feeler gauge reading. That will put you ball park "shake" at the top end of the rod.
sorry for the poor audio on that video.
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks, Dale! So if I understand right you measured the total play on both sides with thrust washers and bearing pushed to one side and then duplicated this with a press. The resulting play would then be evenly divided by each side, so to speak. I thought you measured each side individually hence my confusion. A true gentleman. Thank you.
Right on brother!
do you think the old thrust washer may have worn down making your tighter measurement good. on the new crank
I am sure of it.
Dale i am looking at a good 1973 TC-100, do you know if the TC 125 is mostly similar? noticed the left side case is a different shape ,but it has the duel range trans.
Frank, the 100 is a rotary valve engine (carb in side RH case) and the 125 is piston port (carb behind cylinder) but the inside workings of both are similar, ie. transmission, crankshaft etc, just the induction is different.
Hi, Nice video!!
could you please help me understand, when changing connecting rod kit, should we go for over size pin or same size pin? Thanks
Im not sure that there is a choice, but the ones I have replaced tend to be about .0005 inch larger. Hope that is of some help. Thanks for watchin
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks for replying.
Hi Dale the pin is bigger on the 1980 tc100 do you think it may work or is piston somehow different because rotary valve I know you probably dont know but do you think its worth a shot
John, I really dont know, my thought is the piston skirt is different. Is that model the same bore and stroke? My advice would be, take a deep breath, order the correct parts (from Suzuki) and give it another shot. Just not sure on mixing parts, usually ends up a waste of time and money. Just my 2 cents worth.
Could you please tell where in Thailand buy these parts (any url please)?
www.ebay.com/itm/152410822974?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=DkaQZDgTS06&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=sOLagcZkTfi&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
This is one on Ebay, but since I don't know what model or year you have you will need to do your homework and make sure this is the one for your machine.
Hi Dale, I'm working on a TS100 that seems to have an issue pulling fuel through the crankcase. Good flow from petcock, float needle. Will start on starter fluid easily. Any advice on where to start looking? I was hoping to get by without a full rebuild!
Hi John, thanks for your comment. Its probably crankshaft seals, I would start with the magneto side. I think it can be changed without splitting the cases. Not so with the clutch side. You might also check the carburetor boot were the carb fits to the rotary valve. That's my best guess without having it in front of me. Make sure the air cleaner is not plugged too. Hope I have been some help. Good luck, and thanks for watchin.
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks for the reply. After getting back to it, looks like just the fuel inlet was plugged up + float needle sticking. All good now.
That's great John that it was a simple fix. Glad you got it going. Good job.
hi dale i have question I went to put my piston on and the piston pin is smaller on my old crank than on my new crank so if i can I want to buy new piston and pin that will fit Only reason I think it may work is because i bought crank that was suppose to be for tc 100 and most cranks listed are good for ts or tc 100 or 125 so im hoping i can get piston and pin instead of taking it all back apart and i would not know if i was buying wrong one again anyway. my old pin was about 472 thousand or 11.988 mm diameter and i need 557 thousands or 14.147 mm any help or thoughts thanks john
John, I just did some looking on Rocky mountain ATV/MC. This is what I found. In 1978 the TS100 uses the same connecting rod as my 74 TC125, looks like the last year for the TC100 must have been 1977. 1978 appears to be the year they dropped the rotary valve for the power reed system. I dont know what year your bike is but I think if it is a rotary valve model that is what is messing you up. Take a look at there site, I like it better than partzillia's. You can just point at the number and get the part number. Dont think this is what you want to hear, but I think you will have to get the earlier rod. Man we all make mistakes, have made my fair share for sure. Hope this is some kind of help.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks I have been looking online and i think i'm going to have to pull it all back apart well this time will easier .I was careful to put it all back together right so this wouldn't happen and yes it is rotary valve and yes I put rotary valve back together so mark on it was on key way anyway thanks
But Sir!, everything was going perfect until you hit it on the bench, probably bringing the crankshaft out of alignment. Why you didn't use the press like when extracting the pin, to support just one half before hitting it with the hammer?
Apart of that, excellent video. Just friendly criticism.
Thanks for watching, everyone does things different, fifty years ago while working at a Suzuki shop this is how it was done. I tried the press once...not enough control over movement. The Standard in the industry has always been sharp deliberate strikes with a brass or copper hammer. After each strike the crank is reinstalled between centers to check for runout. Believe it or not it does work. Hey Im always open to new ideas, and better ways. Thank you Sir.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks for your reply. Keep doing those great videos. You have a new suscriber now ✌
L@@montana2strokeracer
@Shed Life Very interesting. Good looking contraptions. I just dont do enough of them to warrant that kind of equipment. Generally if I overshoot the clearance I just use machinist wedges to move it back were it needs to be. That being said, I do have two more to do in the not to distant future.
Can you type dimensions of this engine stand please??
Hi, its approx. 24 X 14 inches
@@montana2strokeracer whether these are the dimensions for the inner frame on which the attached engine rotats?
I got a machinest and he has an actual machinest shop .
It what he does every day . it's his job and has been for 55 years .
I pay for the quality and he backs his work .
In other words , I pay for warrantied work from a professional.
I help his economic out look he gives me good deals . he is my guy . that's how it's supposed to work .
I don't think 130 for a crank rebuild is too high a price to pay for warrantied work from a professional machinest.
Hell I got a new sleeve and piston fit for 70 bucks .
In fact I looked for a sleeve for almost a year . la sleeve said no dice .
My guy called his " buddy" at la sleeve anf had him surch the shelves .
You know what , his buddy found the only one ... It was in the wrong spot on the shelf .
Do you have a buddy at la sleeve?
It's great you can do this . but I want as good as the company that made the bike .
I can't get kawasaki to do it so I get the next best thing . that be the best machinest I can find with the best tools at his disposal.
I don't doubt you can . it looks as though you now what you got to do .
A little crude on the mesuring .
Hi, what a great story, I love it when everything works out. It's great to have friends you can count on. Especially when things are looking a little bleak, and they come through for you. I'm glad you have found a machinist you can trust and that does better than factory work that you expect. Those kind of people are hard to find and worth every cent you pay them. Thanks again for the most wonderful story, and for watching the channel.
Trop lent , mauvaise methode
Hey Marcos, thanks for your comment, I'm not in any hurry here, this method has always worked very good for me. Thanks for watchin.