Rule no 3, of the contrary motion, applies to triad chords i.e C, D, Em. The Bass and the melody CAN go up in a parallel motion for example with 7th chords. I will talk about it in future videos.
Thank you for the great video! Just a note that might be interesting to others. In his lessons to Attwood, Mozart was teaching that when going from eg. G to Am it's better to resolve the leading tone upwards to C. In other words: bass: G upper voices: G-B-D going to: bass: A upper voices: E-C-C (two distinct notes only) Hope this helps!
Hi Nicos! Sure - that's what we call deceptive cadence. VI instead of I. We got the resolution to C on top, plus we got 2 C notes in the chord. It's almost a c chord... except the bass moves to A :)
Thanks for the videos! Especially all the Pat Metheny! This is VERY concise and simplifies a lot of "dogmatic" traditional classical theory approach ie "avoid parallel 5ths/species counterpoint" ect.. Very useful and practical imho
Good to know Kenneth, thanks. These ‘rules’ do make sense once you see them as aesthetics principles. These were developed by musicians just like us and we still use the today to a certain degree.
Thank you. Are there rules for music with more than four voices? If so, where can I find them? I mean music which still uses triads rather than which thickens the harmony with 7ths and other extensions.
oh my gosh thats exactly what i need , lesson for only six gun finger , four an left hand i loose at OK KORAL in duel against Jean michel jarre the dude was hungry an eat my poor finger , nevermind if his hunger are gone ,mille merci Guy à bientot frangin
Of course - I like that sound too! we do it all the time on the guitar when playing chords with barre. But we can also get benefit from the old, elegant european aesthetics. And thanks :)
saw you gonna do close to home. It's definitely not too sure about making it's way back home. It's an incredibly beautiful piece but in places there is a lot of space in there and it gets a bit disjointed and lost to me. Maybe some extension to make it a bit of a bigger house with some extra "passages". I could rewrite it. I could re-produce it. I could remix it, cut and paste a bit, and the chances are I might ruin it. Chuckle!!!
Hahahahah - the best comment ever!!! It was mixed by Jan Erik Kongshaug who did for ECM a few of the Pat and PMG. First Circle 1984. Jan Erik told me that when Manfred Eicher heard that the First Circle recording sessions took 4 days instead of the usual 2 days he got so infuriated - telling Jan Erik to never record ever again with Pat. So in 1985, when Lyle was recording his first solo album he knew exactly where to go for mixing. When we recorded with Jan Erik in 2015, on the morning of the second day he said that the previous night he listened to Lyle's album "...what an album"
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer ECM a legendary label with the best of jazz and players. I think we should get Lyle to re-mix a lot of his tracks with today's mastering software not because their is anything wrong with the material or his piano/synth sounds I am just aware that the mix and mastering could provide a huge boost to the listening experience. I would hope there are tapes out there with multi tracks and multi channels to work with. (They have done amazing things with the beatles remasters.)
Thanks Matt. No. there are many cases where the melody and the bass go in the same direction, or when the upper voice is not moving. That specific 'rule' #3 applies when the bass goes up a step, and contrary motion prevents parallel octaves and 5th. I will be making a few more of these in addition to the music analysis ones.
@@matt-spaiser That rule no 3, applies to triads only. I will clarify that in a comment. Of course, we know these chords where both the bass and the melody go up a step ( like C - Dm7 - D#o7 - C/E). But when it comes to triads, like going to from D to E, or Am-Bm, you go in contrary motion to avoid parallel 5th and 8th. Guitar players use parallel motion when using barre chords. We're used to this sound today, but the Europeans avoided it.
Rule no 3, of the contrary motion, applies to triad chords i.e C, D, Em. The Bass and the melody CAN go up in a parallel motion for example with 7th chords. I will talk about it in future videos.
Great video Guy! Subtly, some insights on basic counterpoint rules. Haha.
You noticed:) Thanks Juan Pablo!
Thank you for the great video!
Just a note that might be interesting to others. In his lessons to Attwood, Mozart was teaching that when going from eg. G to Am it's better to resolve the leading tone upwards to C. In other words:
bass: G upper voices: G-B-D going to:
bass: A upper voices: E-C-C (two distinct notes only)
Hope this helps!
Hi Nicos! Sure - that's what we call deceptive cadence. VI instead of I. We got the resolution to C on top, plus we got 2 C notes in the chord.
It's almost a c chord... except the bass moves to A :)
Thanks for the videos! Especially all the Pat Metheny! This is VERY concise and simplifies a lot of "dogmatic" traditional classical theory approach ie "avoid parallel 5ths/species counterpoint" ect.. Very useful and practical imho
Good to know Kenneth, thanks. These ‘rules’ do make sense once you see them as aesthetics principles. These were developed by musicians just like us and we still use the today to a certain degree.
Great going, Guy.
chuckyspell thank you! :)
Interesting video👍Has the intro piece a name?
Thank you! 🙏 and that’s something I made for this video :)
Thank you. Are there rules for music with more than four voices? If so, where can I find them? I mean music which still uses triads rather than which thickens the harmony with 7ths and other extensions.
I love your red keyboard...what brand/model is it?
It’s the Nord Stage 2 HA 88
oh my gosh thats exactly what i need , lesson for only six gun finger , four an left hand i loose at OK KORAL in duel against Jean michel jarre the dude was hungry an eat my poor finger , nevermind if his hunger are gone ,mille merci Guy à bientot frangin
I just couldn't help myself like the sound of parallel motion more at 7:55, but that's not to take away from the validity of the lesson!
Of course - I like that sound too! we do it all the time on the guitar when playing chords with barre. But we can also get benefit from the old, elegant european aesthetics. And thanks :)
saw you gonna do close to home. It's definitely not too sure about making it's way back home. It's an incredibly beautiful piece but in places there is a lot of space in there and it gets a bit disjointed and lost to me. Maybe some extension to make it a bit of a bigger house with some extra "passages". I could rewrite it. I could re-produce it. I could remix it, cut and paste a bit, and the chances are I might ruin it. Chuckle!!!
Hahahahah - the best comment ever!!!
It was mixed by Jan Erik Kongshaug who did for ECM a few of the Pat and PMG. First Circle 1984. Jan Erik told me that when Manfred Eicher heard that the First Circle recording sessions took 4 days instead of the usual 2 days he got so infuriated - telling Jan Erik to never record ever again with Pat. So in 1985, when Lyle was recording his first solo album he knew exactly where to go for mixing. When we recorded with Jan Erik in 2015, on the morning of the second day he said that the previous night he listened to Lyle's album "...what an album"
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer ECM a legendary label with the best of jazz and players. I think we should get Lyle to re-mix a lot of his tracks with today's mastering software not because their is anything wrong with the material or his piano/synth sounds I am just aware that the mix and mastering could provide a huge boost to the listening experience. I would hope there are tapes out there with multi tracks and multi channels to work with. (They have done amazing things with the beatles remasters.)
Thank you. This is very useful to know! Is the top melody line always supposed to move in the opposite of the bass?
Thanks Matt. No. there are many cases where the melody and the bass go in the same direction, or when the upper voice is not moving. That specific 'rule' #3 applies when the bass goes up a step, and contrary motion prevents parallel octaves and 5th. I will be making a few more of these in addition to the music analysis ones.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Thanks for the clarification. So if the bass goes up a step, is the melody supposed to go down, or just the other voices?
@@matt-spaiser That rule no 3, applies to triads only. I will clarify that in a comment. Of course, we know these chords where both the bass and the melody go up a step ( like C - Dm7 - D#o7 - C/E). But when it comes to triads, like going to from D to E, or Am-Bm, you go in contrary motion to avoid parallel 5th and 8th. Guitar players use parallel motion when using barre chords. We're used to this sound today, but the Europeans avoided it.