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Three Phase Mystery Solved, No Neutral Required in a Balanced Load?
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- In this video we continue investigating three phase and solve the mystery posed in a previous video when we removed the neutral and the circuit continued working. We explain where three phase supplies come from, and investigate a three phase waveform.
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OMG.Just found your channel and can't fully describe how easier its for me to understand stuff that I've been taught with City and Guilds. Absolutely brilliant ,thank you!
Glad it's helpful, stay tuned for more!
Thanks Joe. 3 phase has always mystified me but with your videos I'm getting nearer understanding it all.
Glad they're helping. As always if you have any questions or suggestions for future videos let me know!
Fantastic video joe thanks
Thanks very much, stay tuned for more!
This is a great explanation. I appreciate the fact that your explanation uses the actual goings on in the circuit. This really helps me understand - as opposed to just believing - how the circuits operate. Thank you!
You just gained a subscriber.
Good to hear. I'm really glad the video helps. 😊
Thank you so much for this amazing and direct video.
Definitely looking forward to more videos from you
Amazing how simple you made that to understand. So cool to understand this now!
But we did need the neutral with two phase of usage, as well as single phase.
Very well presented video. Thank you.
Spot on Ted, you may remember from the previous video though that when we removed the neutral connection for two lamps they dimmed, I'll explain this in a future video!
@@JoeRobinsonTraining could you use square root of 2 that give you lower voltage?
@@JoeRobinsonTraining Joe: revisiting this subject 3 years latter.
Still a Learner. Does the VOLTAGE jump up on 3 phase open neutral
on the individual legs with ONE LEG no longer has no load?
P.S. You do not look a day older.
Excellent video again joe. I watched the first one a while ago, could you not leave it so long for the next instalment!! The suspense is killing me😄👍
😂 Sorry Gareth, it was an absolute monster of an edit. Next three phase video should drop next Wednesday. Thanks for the support! 👍
No neutral required? More like "The amount of knowledge conveyed in these videos is wild!" Thanks for making and sharing them.
Excellent video Joe. Very clear and concise explanation. No wonder I Subscribed!!
Glad it came across that way. Plenty more on the way so stay tuned!
Hello Joe, Outstanding Video. Very informative and a great training tool.
Thank you kindly, there's more to come so stay tuned!
I've always wondered about this and you answered beautifully.
This is the easiest explanation that I came across so far. Thank you very much. Superb!
Great vid, like all your other vids are, your ability to convey your knowledge in a simple easy to understand way is exceptional.
Aw, thanks for the kind comment 😊 just hoping the videos help people out. Stay tuned for more!
Awesome explanation. Thanks a lot for sharing such a valuable and highly practical content.
Thank you Sir for this amazing video.
I am a junior biomedical engineer working on Xray machines. I have noticed that we are not connecting the neutral line in the generator and i was wondering why. Just watched this video and you explained it!
Appreciate it.
You are welcome! 👍
This is brilliant stuff. Thank you! I wish Joe Robinson and UA-cam were around back when I was in Uni!
Thanks for the kind comment. 😊
Joe, thanks for answering my curiosity! Great video and explanation
Brilliant explanation. Something I've been looking for in a long time.
Really valuable due to the work I’m currently doing, thankyou👍🏾
My absolute pleasure Leo, stay tuned to get ahead for next week!
Informative series of videos. It is great to see how you build up the concepts one after the other.
Thanks very much, you can understand anything if you take the right steps. 👍
Hi Joe.
We have a motor that was recently rewound, full service done to it.
But when we installed it is pulling high amps in two phases only.
supply voltage = 460
motor amp rating = 283
voltage phase to ground
phase A =279
phase B = 280
phase C = 282
amps per phase
phase A= 277.0 amps
phase B = 296.0 amps
phase C = 286.0 amps
we are using a soft starter to get the motor up to speed , once the motor is at full speed a
bypass contactor is energized and from that moment On the soft starter is only waiting for the stop command
we are going across the line with the contactor.
We suspected the bypass contactor was faulty and causing the high amps , but when we inspected the contactor it was in good
condition , it worked properly.
We checked for loose connections and found none .
motor and cables Megged good.
There is not enough imbalance to cause the problem.
Any idea what could be causing this problem ???.
just found your channel and as i just started my apprenticeship in germany this is really helping filling in the gaps of the language barrier. so far one of the best explanations ive found and easily put across so thank you dude
Ah great to know, glad the content is helping and thanks for commenting. 👍
How has your apprenticeship been going?
excellent video. clear and precise. straightforward and easy to understand.
Great Explanation, simplified to the maximum and easy to understand.
Thank you for your explanations...
Actually one of the best explanations, but with a greater explanation always comes more questions, you said that the current at the neutral point will be always zero, and you thankfully proved it by experiment, so there is the question "how could we get 8.4 amps in the lines before the heater while at the other end (the neutral point) has zero amps ?", it doesn't make sense to me as it means there is no charge carriers moving at all, they stop each other
They don't stop each other. They sort of "push/pull" each other at the other side of the load so it's always zero. As the 3-phase graph describes. You could think of it with the water example. At one point in time motor 1 might be pushing 5 litres of water, while motor 2 is sucking 3 litres and motor 3 is sucking 2 litres.
The current from one phase will go through the load and then balance out with whatever the currents on the other 2 phases are doing cause they are in perfect balance.
Omg this video is absolutely amazing, Helped me soo much in my AC principles class.
Great to know. Make sure you check out my other videos. 👍
wow, that's crazy stuff. I must be on my 3OTH video. great information and very well explained. thanks a million
Awesome tutorial. Many thanks Joe
Did wonder about this yesterday, I'm not an electrician but wondered how a 3 phase SWA cable could get away with a neutral that wasn't 3 times the size of the lives. Read some text that explained it but no where near as well as your video. Brilliant.Thanks
Nicely done!
Fantastic example thank you
Great video, Joe. Mystery solved although it seems too simple! I guess the way to look at it is that any wave form above the axis line is a positive figure and any value below the wave form is a negative figure; add these three up and you have the value of zero?
It pretty much is that simple and you've totally got the point of the positive and negative values. It gets a little trickier when we start looking at imbalanced three phase loads. Stay tuned for next week's video!
Joe Robinson Training brilliant; can’t wait.
Excellent presenter and teacher - Thank you Joe 👍
Ah thanks. That's really kind of you to say. 😊
Excellent Way of presentation.....Three Phase Concepts made explicitly simple....Appreciated..
My pleasure, thanks for commenting. 😊
your practical explanation way more specific than any others
I need a practical explanation about Filter from you. Like you so much❤❤❤❤
Really great, I finally understand why.
Great video as always Joe, it's really helping my understanding of 3-phase supplies. I've always found 3-phase a fascinating subject, these videos are perfect for anyone trying to understand the underlying principles behind it.
Thanks for the nice comment, I'm glad they're helpful. The edit on this one was a nightmare so glad it wasn't in vain! Stay tuned for more...
Very understandable video about three phase thanks Joe
Beautifully explained ....Thanks
Thanks for all the comments! 😃
Just came across your channel & found this video super clear & extremely helpful (my apprenticeship, in the UK, finished over 30 years ago & since then I have had no exposure to 3-phase systems). Now in Gemany I have a 3kw immersion heater element, of the 400v 3-phase variety, to install at home. No info came with it & I can find nothing online (happy days!). From a visual inspection of its internal connections it is STAR configured, with 3 individual heating elements - one per phase. I have measured the resistance of each individual heating element/phase (i.e. to the neutral point) & they are all the same. I understand that this then represents a 'balanced load' scenario, and thus does not need the Neutral line to be connected. My question is, is there any disadvantage of connecting the Neural line if it is already there/available to do so? I don't beleive that there is but... Thanks ever so in advance for clarifying this.
Thanks a lot for very good explanation
This video has answered so many of my questions
Great video, keep the three phase one's come.
Thanks Simon, next week's video is a three phase one as well. 👍
Brilliantly put cheers buddy 😁👊👍
You're welcome Ant, thanks for the message, stay tuned for more!
Time to learn with Joe 📚
Hi Joe your explanations are super clear ,can you do a video on a single phase max demand calculation of a building and a three phase max demand of a factory.
Many many thanks sir... I was trying to understand about three phase. Finally, I got it..
Ah brilliant, love hearing this. 😊
5:20 This part is a bit misleading. We don’t need the neutral wire to complete the circuit in a three-phase circuit even when we have unbalanced conditions. This is because the phase wires act as return wires in different intervals of time.
Excellent video, very informative for me, a non spark mech engineer who has to play with electricomagical angry pixies from time to time!
Very nice presentation...
Well explained
This video was perfectly explained thank you sir
Great explanation. I wish i had a teacher like you....
Ah, but you do, right here on UA-cam!
Nice one...keep going
Excellent explanation.
Thank you!
Fantastic.
Great video joe
Thanks very much!
very good,theoretical and practical
Another great video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks very much for commenting, stay tuned for more!
Marvelous teaching, my local lecturer only did throwing equations and electrical diagrams at my face...
Thanks, tell your classmates! 👍
Great video and makes sense when you have 3 balanced loads, but (unless I'm missing it) there isn't an explanation as to why when loads are only on L1 and L2 that the current in the neutral is the same as the individual loads? Sorry, new to this so might be a dumb question?
Brilliant video .Please do more
Amazing explanation. I have a question, there are loads that require two phases, for example an air conditioner or a 220 V luminaire. This type of load does not require a neutral conductor, where does the current return to? How does this kind of system work? Can you make a video about it, please? Thank you! Greetings from Mexico, you've been my best teacher so far!
Ah, thanks for the kind comment Edwin. In a two phase circuit the current just passes down one phase and back down the other before it changes direction.
@@JoeRobinsonTraining Would you mind explain the answer further, I didn't unfortunately get the answer.
@@smacool2975 You have two conductors connected to the load.
In order for electricity to flow, there must be a continuous unbroken loop for the electricity to flow on. It starts off from the voltage source, travels along the conductor to the load, passes through the load and then returns down the second conductor back to the voltage source.
That is all there is to it.
Great video Joe 👍 Prime mover comes to mind...
Thanks very much Alan!
Brilliant! 👍
Finally a video that made things more clear. 10:28 literally made say, "ooooooooooh. now I get it."
Great explanation! Thanks!
You're welcome, please check out my other videos!
Hello I like your videos. You put them across so that most people can understand. There is a circuit that I would like you to do for a group of us.
We would like you to show us a lift station with a high float and a low float switch. How I want it to operate is, when the water, sewage or any liquid rises it turn on the low float but the motor does not start until the water or sewage reaches the high float. When the water is pumped out the motor does not stopped until the water is down to the lower float.
Thanks in advance.
Sounds intriguing, il add it to my to do list. 👍
You cleared my long time doubt so quick... @ motor winding... Y they are connected together
Glad the video helped! Stay tuned for more!
Thank you.
thanks joe
nice teaching I learned musch more
Really rally good explanation
Thank you. 👍
Knocking it out the park Joe!
Thanks Will, nice to know they're helping!
well done
GREAT VIDEO!!!!!!!
Very helpful video❤️🔥
That 3 phase current cancelling example finally cleared the air for me after all these years on no need for neutral on balanced load, thanks!
Got a question though- the electrons still need to return to their source, so at any given degree of rotation is the electrons flowing down the respective phases in the opposing directions back to the source?
I have the same question? Any answer?
Really nice n simple.
Plz ur support for my question which is,
If it says 3ph generator has 120amps capacity, does it mean that each phase will provide 120amps or each phase will provide 40amps?
Vary useful information ❤️❤️
Thanks very much.
Check with you, does RCB without neutral.
Fantastic as always Sir 👍
thank youu!!
Another great video! This guy kicks ass!
Awesome video!111
ty for that clarity. The only thing I don't see is at the 10:35 mark the total is a clear as day. 8-4-4=0. When you had 2 legs on it was 8 on the neutral. However when you pick any point on that waveform and try to match A + B they don't add up to 8 all the time. say for instance at the line you inserted. The red phase is 8 but either of the other 2 are -4. 8-4=4
It's the same principle as a single phase sine wave, it will have a different value at different points. What you're looking for is the rms value of the wave form. 👍
@@JoeRobinsonTraining ty . one more question if you have the time. It would be almost impossible ,yes?, to have a panel balanced at any one moment. Thus there is always an amount of unbalanced current running back to the panel neutral, and from there to??? back through the service?
Also in your example here if you touch the neutral in the balanced state you are fine. if you touch in when one heater is on .... you are toast?
@@brentkelly5445 it depends on the type of loads connected to the panel really. If you've got three phase motors it should be almost perfectly balanced, many three phase motors have no neutral for this reason. If you've got lots of different single phase loads, lighting, sockets etc., it's almost impossible to get it balanced.
Touching the neutral is different as it's the voltage between neutral and earth that causes a shock, in theory you shouldn't get a shock from either a balanced or an unbalanced neutral, but as it's classed as a live conductor you'd NEVER want to touch it as things do go wrong and you could get a shock. Hope that helps. 😊
@@JoeRobinsonTraining ah yes ty. because the neutral to ground is less resistance than me.
Great Video! Can you explain how if you remove the neutral reference in this balanced load you still have coil to ground or coil to neutral voltage?
In the US we commonly use a 120/208 Y system in commercial buildings.
If I lose that reference why are my single phase loads not getting 208?
Obviously if you take a voltage reading between any phase to a different phase its 208.
Excellent
Thanks very much!
Can you please make a video of 3 phase motor and explain the relation of the current drawn in low- high speed or wye-delta..
great video bud 😊
Cheers matey!
Thanks a lot for the efforts taken to produce this very valuable content! I have two questions and hope you can clarify.
1. Even though loads are balanced, the current must flow through closed path and hence at any moment, current from one phase gets split and flows through other two phases. Is this correct?
2. In typical medium voltage distribution system, there is never a neutral, and the loads connected could be far from balanced. How does the net current (vector sum of all three phase currents) flow in this case? Does it flow through other phases as in case of balanced loads? If yes, then how get current in neutral in this video?
Thanks a lot again for your time!
1.If i may ask, what causes the high/low voltage and how do you solve the problem?
2.What causes shocking taps and how do you resolve it?
I glad if you answer me on a question, why the current was 8.4 amps when l1 and l2 were connected without l3?
Thanks in advance 🙏
this content is awesome! The heaters will also be depicted as the KCL or Kirchoff Current Law.
No, you don't depict things as Kirchoff's Law.
Kirchoff's Current Law is simply an analysis technique to enable you to evaluate the currents in the cables
All it says is the sum of the currents entering a node is zero.
So you ascribe direction to the current, and that is indicated in diagrams using an arrow, which sadly most electricians don't seem able to do, for some bizarre reason.
And you also ascribe a positive or negative value to the magnitude of the current to indicate direction it is flowing in.
Currents flowing in a positive, currents flowing out are negative. You can even do it the other way around. It doesn't matter as long as you are consistent.
Hi Joe.
Excellent!
Can you do a video on bonded or floating neutrals on generators & if Earth rods are required?(TNCS)
Regards mg.
Thx for the video cleared some concepts for me, but quick question if the loads cancel each other out how does the electricity return to source, also and I know this might be quite stupid but if in this example we remove the neutral shouldn't the heaters still work because the is no return anyway?
thx man / helped a lot
My absolute pleasure! Make sure to check out my other videos on the subject.
About the zero current, Can we think of it in terms Kirchhoff's current law? Not only when at peak values , but also at different points indicated by the graph, where we can add or subtract the 3 phase(r,y,b) values depending on whether it is in the Positive(up/forward) or Negative(down/negative).