Are Georgians the best 1v1 civ now? (post March patch)
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- Опубліковано 4 кві 2024
- After some notable (but not mind-blowing) changes to the Georgians last patch, they've suddenly become #1 in the ladder for 1200+ elo?? Let's take a closer look at what's going on.
0:35 The surprising stats
1:10 Changes
1:28 Early game
2:30 Cavalry
4:00 Seek shelter
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
Monaspa basically a Leitis except instead of relics it gets stronger with the gift of friendship
Imma defeat you with the power of friendship and this lance I found
"We win because we fight as a team!!"
Jolly co-operation asf ☀
"Who needs trinkets when you can have friends?"
I believe the internet term for it is jolly cooperation lol however, there are 2 caveats to what you said. 1) they lack the armor penetration of leitis 2) their attack bonus goes down as the cooperation becomes less jolly
a potential nerf could be what they did to Goths that one time but in reverse, where their first mule cart is free in terms of ressources, but it still needs to be built
Thats tricky, as it takes town center worktime
But a possability.
Just impose 100 wood penalty😊
I like this a lot but not sure if it's going to the root of the problem.
@@chingamfong they're not oppressive, so i don't think massive nerfs are necessary. cutting down on some early villager time and a bit of scouting feels like it can have a strong impact. maybe, i'm not a dev.
@@ethribin4188 it doesnt take tc time since the mule cart is built by vills.
It's so fascinating to watch seemingly small changes have such drastic effects in real time. It goes to show how delicate the balancing of the game is and what a difficult job the devs have handling it.
Also, there are a crazy number of civs, and the best civ among them wins less than 10% more games than the statistically average civ. That is not that many and I find that very impressive.
I anticipate a nerf to the Georgians along the lines of "Start with a free Mule Cart, but -50 Wood". Doesn't hinder their Villager production as much as -50 Food, but makes it a tad trickier to get infrastructure out early on.
Sounds fair enough.
I'd even give them -100 wood, which is more or less the cost of the cart. You still have the bonus of not having to waste time building the camp and having a unit for extra exploration, while having to adjust your starts to account for the lack of wood at the start.
@@pwn3dnamethey're not overpowered. - 50 would be more than enough.
Frankly I don't think they need a nerf. They're one of the top civs but not significantly better (literally they could be 1-3 depending on how the +- turns out). They still have weaknesses and counters. They're strong but not too strong.
Up
Gotta say, being able to garrison the mule cart is pretty powerful as you no longer have to worry about replacing lumber camps or mining camps after being raided.
That's what Daut said, and Viper didn't want to believe, this reg buff is a big change
Never doubt the lord!
The Lord knows.
I wouldnt say it's what boosted the georgians so much.
I think irs the fully free mule cart.
Starting with 100 more resources then others, AND having less towncenter worktime needed is huge.
@@ethribin4188 Mule carts are built from villagers like mining camps. I don't know why you're going around the comment section talking about less 'town center worktime'.
Lol, Daut getting tilted because Viper got the math wrong was the funniest thing I've seen in a while.
Said it on the PUP thread that this was a vast improvement and that the Monaspa nerfs were not a good offset.
Maybe a knock to their starting wood would put them in the right position, say -50w and then you have a pretty normal dark age compared to other civs. Much less awkward than -50f and you end up half a scout behind where you would have been which is a lot given how the regen snowballs.
That or ditch the whole regen idea, it's inherently a snowball mechanic which is a nightmare for balance at the top level.
Having X damaged knights out there healing at 15% per minute is the equivalent of having Y stables pumping out new knights for free... You could do some interesting calculations with this
It's not exactly the same, since you have to avoid them dying if you want the benefit, you don't get the full use of them, unless you do in which case the healing is only as much as happens during the fight.
@@booradley6832 Yeah, like I said, you can't use them in their entirety, or put them in situations where recovery is unlikely, IF you want the benefit. So it's not the same as getting extra free knights while they are healing.
hunwar now
I mean georgianwar now
Hey Spirit, Guys of the law here. 👋🏻👋🏻
Hey law, Guys of the Spirit here. 😂
Spirit law, the guy
Hey spirit, stallion of the cimarron here
Hey guys, Lyric of the Spa here
Here of Spirit the Law Guys Hey
SOTL vid idea: comparison between leitus and monaspa
Hey, do you plan to release a review of the new DLC ? Thanks for your amazing content
I’m glad that Georgia is finally getting its groove in by getting a few small nerfs in exchange for some really strong buffs like not having their early game hampered
Also I love how Tatars are still at the 40th position due to how barely used and rather useless) flaming camels are
Tartars - Silk Armor should apply to Keshiks as well.
@@chadl3031 I didn’t even realize that, their unique unit doesn’t even benefit from silk armor.
@@chadl3031Flaming camels too! 😂
It's all about the all in 19 pop knight rush 11
Would it help using the cart by right clicking on one of the lumberjack villagers so the cart follows them around? That way it would reposition itself to keep close to the treeline.
Can I suggest you do a video on gun powder units? Being such a technology advanced unit I feel like they should make any civ dominant in the late game (imo) but I want to hear your opinion on how they affect the overall balance of the game.
There is a very strong, memey strategy going around with the georgians right now. Its basically a 21 pop "you pudding" fast castle into 1 stable knight production. If you do it right, you can begin knight production at 13:20 and already have bloodlines and +1 armor researched. The 18 hp regen per minute makes them very difficult to deal with in feudal age.
Thx.
Beautiful
As Georgian this makes me happy
Video idea:
Is an "L-stone"-layout better than an U-layout? What is the absolute fastest way to mine an entire 5 tile stone pile or 4/6 tile gold? Ideal mining camp location per spawn type! Some nice math!
Attempt no. 10 of asking Spirit of the Law to make a civilisation overview like he did with Romans, but for other Romae ad Bellum civilisations, making it a series. Thanks for good work :D
I've played this civ for the past few months and here are my thoughts:
I feel Georgians are a bit too reliant on their castle age power spike to be considered the definitive #1 civ. The cavalry healing is basically carrying the feudal age, and makes them pretty predictable. The lack of thumb ring makes crossbows feel bad, and makes an archer opening feel like a waste, though the extra food means it is easier to pull off. The FU Militia line is a nice touch, but can be hard to pull off, specifically on open maps.
Their castle age is still easily one of the best in the game. Making early knights (5-20 of them) make the Monaspa transition super smooth, and the ability to start dropping churches down to increase villager work rate makes the Georgians super hard to beat if they make it to that point.
Something I haven't seen people talk too much about is how population efficient this whole civ is. Between cavalry only taking up .85 pop in Imp, and basically having 5-10% more villagers, you can potentially out boom, and out damage anyone.
So yeah I foresee a nerf of some kind coming relatively soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they messed with how much knights contribute to the Monapsa's bonus attack.
Nice showcase of villager pathing at 1:30
Overall stats are well balanced!
Maybe its fun to check out when raided by knights/scouts/MAA, when is it worth to have your vills fight back?
damn i got second place thirteen seconds after this came out
They should have let the original -50 food start continue with the drop off button
Daut called it in Town Centre a few weeks ago!
Random, or maybe not so much, observation: why at around 3:54 the gold miner walks all the way to the cart instead of dropping off on the town center right besides it?????
Spire of the la hire!!
Maybe 🤔
It's all thanks to @pooplord for the 19 pop knights
YOO earliest ive ever been to sotl vid :D
I find it so fascinating that such seemingly small changes can have such a dramatic effect on the the result of so many games. "Hey guys, the king had waffles instead of eggs for breakfast this morning, I guess we can take over the world now!" 😂
that 50 food must be hella tasty
Funny how at 1:30 one sheep is pushing a villager.
With the 15% heal instead of a flat number, I want to see what happens when they convert a Persian Elite War Elephant, does that mean it will heal 90 health per minute? Indirect monk buff against elephant civs?
Converted units don't receive converter's upgrades, they get locked in time, keeping the same blacksmith upgrades and unit-line progress that they had when converted (ie. a converted castle age knight stays the same even if both players advance to imperial and research cavalier). The only exception to the locked in time rule are villagers who change unit types when they switch resources (converting un-loomed villager will become loomed if you switch tasks)
@@biggali This has nothing to do with converted units changing as it's not specifically classified to only affect Knight-line, Scout-line and Monaspa, but cavalry in general, it's a civ bonus, not an upgrade your opponent has to research. Georgians don't have particularly high health cavalry, but Persian War Elephants and Raja civs' Battle Elephants would massively benefit from this change, as their base health is far higher than 100, making a percentage more useful than a flat number of the same value. As a result, a converted Elite War Elephant would now not heal 15 health per minute (flat number before patch), but 90 per minute (15% of 600), even a non-elite version would heal 67.5 health per minute. A Battle Elephant (Elite) would heal 37,5 (45). That's what I meant with "indirect monk buff against elephant civs?"
@@Vidhur Civ bonuses are techs that automatically get researched at every age. When you convert a unit, it doesn't get affected by your civ bonuses and the unit keeps your enemy's bonuses.
A converted Briton crossbowman still will have 8 range, it doesn't loose the civ bonus when converted. If a Briton player were to convert an archer, the converted archer doesn't get the extra range from the civ bonus.
Edit: Civ bonuses are just techs that get researched at start of game/ when you age up. The cavalry regening 15% of their hp is not an aura that affects the Georgians, it' a tech that affects their cavalry by giving them regeneration (just like Berber camels, Bengali ships, Dravidian elephants, Viking's old berserkergang tech.)
@@biggali I didn't know this, this certainly wasn't the case before DE though, otherwise I wouldn't have made the argument, I am sure of that as I was always doing this kind of "what if monk converted x unit from x civ" things as a kid in the Conquerors. I've just tested the Longbowman thing, and you seem to be correct, it kind of saddens me, I liked the idea of converting an Elephant that healed 90 health per minute. If we were in the HD or Conquerors days, these changes and civ bonuses would've actually been monk buffs.
Hey spirit of the La hire, i love your videos
The turnaround kinda makes sense.
- the weakness was clearly in early. So anything that improves the start would just shift the whole winrate curve upwards 5-15%. Their new lowpoint (20-30) is now their highpoint (45+) used to be
- The -50 Food was to offset the free Mulecart (20 Food, 80 Wood) at start. But the effective early saving would be more 100 Wood and some village time for the 1st Logging Camp. And then some savings as you move it, instead of building more.
Now that the offset is gone, that mule cart is a plain old eco bonus.
- If the Cavalry Regen change was a buff or nerf, was a simple math exercise. But:
5 HP regen over 45 HP is 11%
5 HP regen over 65 HP is 7.6%
Yeah, pretty obvious that this was a relevant buff for Feudal Scout Cav.
- the nerf of the Monaspa was to reign in the late game a bit. If they buff the early game, they often have to nerf a lategame unit. Because they will turn from a "latgegame" civ to a "all around" civ.
@@booradley6832 Ideal balance and ideal matchmaking is when everyone has a 50% win chance.
This seems notably above that.
One thing that always amazes me about an RTS game like AoE2 is how something like 50 extra resources can move a civ from average to top tier. I mean, it's 50 food, I'm floating like 5k by the late game, the idea that 50 food is making a huge difference would be baffling to a casual player or an outsider, you have to know the game to know why such a small amount of resources is so impactful.
Snowballing and inflation.
50 resources in dark/feudal can be used to get to castle booming faster, harassing your opponent harder or get a tech that used to be out of reach in the normal build order in there working for you.
As for inflation, in the beginning you have few villagers working slowly compared fo 100-140 in post imp working with all the eco bonuses, making 50 resources in the beginning way more valuable than 5k in the end.
An eco boost with no downside made a civ strong? Colour me shocked
I do feel Georgians need a resource deficit for having the free mule cart.
Having it effectivly puts them 100 resources and the mule cart's training time ahead of other civs.
Thats a huge bonus.
Maybe wood instead of food, but 100 of it, basically a mobile lumbercamp.
Or both wood and food, what amounts to half the price of a mule cart.
But what of my boys the Armenians? How are they doing?
tatars are underrated
why do scouts have such massive swords?
yes🎉😅😊
I'm not sure that comparing "All maps" with "Arabia only" is very helpful, when most games are on Arabia. Maybe "all but Arabia" might be a better comparison?
We need Bengali buff!
Maybe it should get a small nerf like "get a mule card for free when researched loom" or "the first mule card you build in the game is for free"
Both nothing big, one forces you to loom early on, while the other at least takes a bit building time for it.
The monaspa nerfs make sense, because why make a unique unit when you could instead make knights?
Biggest take away is Huns number 2
One and only Lord DauT anticipated that :)
Finally the fortified churches and mule carts get the spot they deserve 😂
The hera factor and his 16pop healing scout rush build should probably be a considered variable. Teach everyone how to play their op power spikes and voila
Sotl where is the intro music 😢😢😢
He mostly uses it for civ overview videos
Just a question, has the warrior priest been fixed yet?
How can download free?
Their initial poor record is solely because of me. I've inflated the stats by playing Georgians and sucking ass at them.
I haven't played competitive since the patch.
It all fits.
I dont have 20 dollars so should i try to pirate the game from a shady website?
This is not the deep, insightful Windmill content I subscribed for
(still good tho)
TAKE AWAY MONASPA PIERCE ARMOR BY AT LEAST TWO!
A consideration is that good players pick Georgians more, boosting the winrate even further
🇬🇪❤️
The hallmark of a good balance baseline.
The horse heal rate I think, isnt to strong.
Its the 100% free mule cart that boosts them so much.
So are we going to mention Hidden Cup performance of "mule cart" civs? When players who can actualy play the game use them? When the "mule cart" civs were released there were people who were unhappy about them and call them pay-to-win (like me for example). Those people were called out to be idiots (basicaly) by SotL in a later video, with SotL showing their bellow average winrate.
Some time later in Hidden Cup there was segment where T90 spent 6 minutes trying to explain why are "mule cart" civs allowed in the tournament despite being ridiculously OP and broken. Armenians proceed to be the first hidden pick for both players before bans in most of the games. They had 9:1 winrate (i think, if you remember correct me if i am wrong please) when not considering significant amount of mirror matches (according to T90 there are maps where Armenians cannot loose so there was a lot of mirror matches).
Georgians on the other hand maybe not as dominant and frequently picked but they had many showcases of monaspa steamrolling units like heavy camels and halberdiers despite being badly outnumbered.
So i was wondering if maybe "mule cart" civs are no longer considered mediocre or did community came to consensus that maybe all the participant of Hidden Cup are noobs and results should not be taken seriously? I wonder...
1v1, no relics, Georgians only, arabia
They were always strong and always picked or banned by pros on tournaments, so it's no surprise. They were behind just because of their wonky start, but now that is better, all their strenght shows up. I would like to see good changes like this even with civs that are blatantly boring or UP since years like Italians or sicilians tbh
Early spirit gang
imo portable drop off point isn't very good in paper. not only they're wimpy but losing ability to create a makeshift wall is also minus 1 point
The constantly moving drop off point can net thousands of additional wood in a game that reaches imp, as well as save wood on mining camps. You can always walk with houses as well
Im early
That's what I said when I was with your mom last night.
Buff bengalis pls.
I still have a thread on the discord about Monaspas in particular, but Georgians in general. FLAME FLAME FLAME, they're a bad civ - just look at the winrate. I didn't really partake beforehand, I knew I needed to let a few small changes come in and prove the point for me.
It's essentially as what was said in the video - their late game was never their problem. The moment they have an okayish starting point they'll get a bit too wild. Only if Monaspas get a slight nerf (reducing their minimum number to get a bonus is mild I'd argue)... would the civ become at least marginally reasonable. The scout regen being buffed is what is taking them fully to the top. But the all-'round loadout of the civilisation seems to have just a few PITs that can be taken advantage of & that's down to a chance matchup.
how do you guys feel about a civ that has been in the game only 3 weeks being the no. 1 civ? seems like they really want us to buy this dlc.
Georgians and Armenians were added October of last year.
still not as big of a buff as khmer farmers
I think some of it is def the fact people arent used to playing against georgians
In real life, my father's grand mother was Georgian.
Good to see there is Georgian Civilization.
I'd rather have 4 out of every 7 games being decided by the winning player dumping a bunch of knights on the enemy instead of being decided by conversions.
Give them paladins. Screw it.
Honestly so tired of new broken civs and broken game mechanics. Really pushing me away from playing this game. Only play team games and it’s just dumb dealing with all these civs with broken units. Between that and my units constantly going in the opposite direction I ask them too this game has gone to shit
Underrated comment. These OP civs wouldnt be so bad if my f'ing pikemen walked the direction i told them to. They don't even attack units anymore on attack move. Its a complete disaster.
If Georgians can get free healing on they’re cavalry class, then Dravidians should get free healing on they’re elephant class. Just saying, these devs be so non consistent on what gets healing for free.
Duh!!! Georgians getting free healing on cavalry from the start is not equal to the Dravidians having to reach Castle age, building a castle, then paying for the tech to get a healing bonus……