How good are Plumed Archers? (AoE2)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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0:55 Crossbow vs Plumed archer
3:04 Upgrades
3:45 Castle age tests
8:40 Elite Plumed Archer
9:45 Imperial age tests
13:35 Final thoughts
13:55 Sponsor
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
“You see, warrior. We fletch arrows with feathers to make them faster, so we wear hat made of feathers to make us faster.”
This is some ork logic if i ever heard it
@@tomassmith2088 Don't forget to only use read feathers. Never purple.
@@desercitus Read feathers? Where do you get those?
Why, from library trees of course.
@@tomassmith2088 Beat me to it
1:32 Pecs and Abs = +1 pierce armor is the SOTL math content I'm here for
Agreed 😂
Pecs give +1 pierce armor, abs give you 15+HP
Age of empire 2 offers so much that watching your videos for almost 6 years and still coming new videos regularly.
Never thought an SOTL video would inspire me to go the gym for pecs and abs. Gotta get that pierce armor!!
Alright, alright, I'll use arbs more when I play Mayans.
Still like the plumes being able to keep up with my eagles, they cover a lot of each others weaknesses!
Due to the characteristics of Mesos civilizations, their unique units are poorly located. The Aztec needs the kamayuk (he does not have halberdiers). The Mayan to the Jaguar (He does not have a champion, to counteract a huscarle or eagles). And the Inca take away the Arbalesta (he already has slingers vs infantry) and put the feathered archer on him to play imperial archers if he wants. in my opinion
Aaaaand The Mayans civ review again, like I called for the Saracens after their special unit since I predicted that he did the same with the Franks
"should never be discounted on account of their discount" BARS!!!! 🔥
Idea for next video - abs and pecs situation in AoE2 in 2024
Make a video about rattan archers pls
New video! Yay!
You might think the Plumed Archer would be weaker with no helmet and barefoot. Yeah, you also might think that Mesoamerican civs wouldn't have wheeled siege engines and Greek fire, either.
11:45 where does the archer on the left shoot?
You missed the part where u make some funny website with Square space
Are you sure it is not the Plummed Archer?
#BringBackObsidianArrows
The other trash resource only unique upgrades are Kipchaks & Rathas
Chakrams are a hefty 1000 Food 650 Gold to upgrade
ngl I feel like the plumed archer just really sucks. If you compare it to a castle age cav archer even the elite version has less attack, HP and mobility
Brace yourself, Mayans overview is coming.
And abs 😂
sincerely dislike using this unit. Terrible attack and only really good vs infantry.
Pin me :)
Plummed archers.
Plumber archers
In the meaning of "feathered" the word is "plumed", and "plummed" means something else.
6 years old me always used to call them like that
How many plums did the eat?
It’s a pretty sweet unit, although some are still kind of sour on it
This video made me remember _Obsidian Arrows._
You guys recall how sick that tech was?
That was crazy. I remember a nations cup where MbL and Viper were up against somebody on Arena, and MbL just melted their bases with Mayan arbs. That was funny, but also one of the reasons we don't have the tech in the game anymore.
@@light_david7 Yeah, it was fun to use it, for sure. But it spoiled games, becaue all you needed to totally annihilate an opponent's base were those cheap archers.
@@light_david7 Yea one was Mayan, other one was Saracen to combine bonus building bonuses and against them was I think Drackon and someone? Not sure, but yea it was thing of beauty.
@@light_david7 minor difference, but it was MBL who was slinging, and Viper who was doing the bulldozing
@@light_david7 ua-cam.com/video/-S-ckyHEOzQ/v-deo.htmlsi=0OE-oT5rC9MwqhqQ
The game in question.
“Never discount them on account of their discount.” Lol
Always account for their discount
the fact they run fast without riding a horse makes them really strong, they don't have to worry for units with bonus against cavalry archers and, they have good pierce armor, overall a strong unique unit, even if they hit less harder that Arbalesters
Ah, yes, the horseless Mangudai
Not even close.
Yeah, Mangudai are more expensive.
- 1 less damage than archer line equivalent
- No extra damage against siege
+ 2 extra damage against infantry
Maybe horseless cav archer.
So the Mayan video is coming?
That’s how it usually goes, yes
@@tominis4444 Imagine researching all those numbers and only getting one video out of it.
If abs make a unit tankier then Teutonic Knights have a 24pack abs under their capes.
The armor and cape isn't to protect them, it's to protect other people from the sight of them.
Man, I remembere when I was really young and played The Conquerors (had just released, I had the CD, manual and all the good stuff). I used to make units based on how cool hey looked, and have all civ matchups somewhat historically based. So the Mayans could only fight the Aztecs or the Spanish. I would always play as Jaguar Warriors or Conquistadores because to me the Plummed Archers looked exactly the same as a extravagant Carnival parade costume lol
3:27 - small correction, it will be elite ratha instead of elite chakram thrower.
Thank goodness too. A unit that pieces enemies that doesn’t cost Gold? Dear lord.
@@Davtwanonly the upgrade vost no gold.
I dont get it, why does the Infantry bonus dmg not work on Huskarls in Castle? Isnt bonus damage supposed to be added after armor calculations? so no matter how low the dmg the bonus dmg should always bump it +1 or not?
The 1 damage crossbows do to huskarls is due to the minimun damage mechanic, they would otherwise do 0 damage. Plumed archers on the other hand already do 1 damage thanks to their bonus against infantry, so the minimun damage doesnt apply.
@@TurboDiego37 ye but thats what I mean. Min Dmg is ALWAYS 1. So if a unit has +1 bonus dmg it should always do 2 dmg no?
The minimum damage rule is the very least step in damage calculation. Simply said if the result of the damage calculation is 0 it will change it to 1. But only then. If the result of the damage calculation is higher than 0, then the rule doesn't come into play. This means if the result of the damage calculation is 1, as with plumes against huskarl because of the attack bonus of 1 against infantry, the actual damage stays at 1.
Appreciating the extra jokes thrown in. This seems a more recent SOTL addition with the odd joke thrown in with all the math and comparison. Works well :)
Love the fast running 💨
I got a Robin Hood ad in the middle of this vid which is funny given this is a vid about great archers
We need an Emperor's New Groove style of Robin Hood animated movie. Robbing from the rich Aztec lords and giving it to the poor.
Now I'm curious about the Vietnamese unique units.
They are very important in team games with hand cannoneers and bombards. Because you can run in and take out what you need to in order for your eagles to do the damage needed.
First of I wanted to say, I love the videos man! Keep up the work! But I do have a note. And I would love to see it being explored a little. Maybe you already have, and I don't know. But I would love to see your point of view on this.
In the video you make a comparison between a Plumed Archer and a Paladin. And you check them up with equal resources. But isn't it a bit unfair? If you calculate the numbers you have to spend 890 more food and 3265 more gold (To get them fully upgraded). It is even higher if you take into account husbandry (1040 more food).
I don't know how much resources an avarage player spends in a game, but that seems quite a bit. You can make a lot of Plumed Archers with those resources. I think it is something to think about. I know it is just to see how well they fair against each other if you both spend the same on just the cost to make them (not included upgrades).
But I would love to know how much impact it actually makes on the total amount of resources spend in a game. Because it then does kinda matter I like to think. Idk maybe I am just rambling but I would love to hear your take on it!
Cheers!
I spent about 20 years of my life thinking and pronouncing them “plummed archers”.
New Mayan civ overview inbound!
Man i miss obsidian arrows!
Yeah, that technology was broken af, though insanely fun to use.
Hear me out, but what if you could get the same tech at a 3rd of it's strength for FREE?
Oh, and it's a team bonus. That's 10x better imo.
@@franciasii2435 i mean, its not bad. obsidian arrows was just different, production buildings getting deleted by groups of plummed was different
Obsidian (glass) arrows dealing more damage against sturdy, hard buildings never made sense. However, destroying buildings with arrows has a certain vibe that I can appreciate. Since Chemistry ignites all arrows and is a late game tech, it'd be cool if it gave Archers a damage bonus vs. non-Stone buildings.
If water is an option, watching massed Longboat volleys delete buildings is very satisfying.
15 min sotl videos on plumes, gets ready in anticipation
I'm at 0:54 and the puns and jokes are killing me, I love it.
Plumed Archers + 100HP EEW + Halb spam, was the nightmare of childhood me who mained the Mongols/Saracens.
Oangers with Mongol unique unit would own that tho
@@kalle1689 Not really EEW can snipe the onager and the Archers will tear the Mangudai apart.
Walked into the gym.
Trainer: So, what are your fitness goals?
Me: Plumed Archer.
Trainer: I assuming you're ok with steroids?
So, how is the guy who made the Plummed Archer mod treating your cat?
Mr. Of The Law, I have a bone to pick with you. Representing unit speed by just staggering units is deceptive. I get it's intuitive and that it has been your style, but it's just fundamentally wrong. You should show unit speed by starting at the same point and perhaps speeding the footage to show the deviation in position over time. It just deeply irks me and I can't shake it off.
Plumed role was always pop efficiency and mobility/ survivability. In a late game scenario, between having 40 plumes or 40 arbalests, being able to keep your mass healthier for longer and replace units less often is a big advantage when delaying trash wars, and that's easier with plumes - Xbow just help you get to that late game. Pair that with Mayans longer lasting resources and you really put opponents on a timer if you just keep your plumes alive.
And eldorado eagles
I would say that the cost nerfs made them significantly more situational especially vs a civ that might field heavy cav, let alone paladins.
@@zachariastsampasidis8880 definitely, stats wise they were always the same but the original price made it so it was worth it to FC into a castle and straight into Plumes, so it was a deserved nerf I'd say
You missed one extremely important part of plumed archer: best running animation in the game
i don't get something at 7:50 . If the Plumed Archer has a bonus of +1 against infantry, and the Huskarl, although having 6 pierce armor, has 0 infantry armor, why doesn't he take +1 bonus damage? Shouldn't it be a total of 2 damage per shot? Am I missing something?
The minimum damage of 1 only applies when there's less than a combined 1 damage worth of all attack types added together at the very end of the calculation. In this case the Plumed Archer's bonus damage lets it do 1 damage, so the game leaves it at that. The rule is to avoid units doing zero damage per attack, not to make sure that each type of damage does at least 1.
Admittedly, it leads to weird situations like this where a bonus seemingly doesn't do anything.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw Incredible how I still learn things about this game after years of playing. Thank you for all your work!
Archer: ....
Mayan Ruler: *Hmmm... not sure, it doesn't look that stro-*
Archer: ...(Lifts a plummed hat up his head)
Mayan Ruler: *!!!!!!!!! GASP!*
Love your videos man!
Do you know why the elite plumed archer has +2 against infantry, EXCEPT the huscarl??
RIP obsidian arrows :(
After comparing Mayan PA vs. generic archers (xbow/arbs), you then compare PA vs Mayan discounted xbows/arbs (at 4:35 and 10:08 respectively), which gives you a relevant metric for a Mayan war match-up.
However, I think a more important test would to see how Mayan discounted archers do against generic archers with equal resources. This would allow you to compare whether the PA or the Mayan discounted archers qre better against generic archers with equal resources.
The plummed archer mod was requested by you in exchange for your cat. Where's the cat Spirit? Show us the cat pics!
Plumber Archer? 🧑🏼🔧
Back in the Voobly days, the plumed archer's mobility combined with very bad melee pathing and made them incredibly strong versus knights. Microing the archers basically prevented the knights from engaging at all, even worse than today. Sure, the cost nerfs have made the unit less appealing, but the fact that melee pathing works so much better now is what I think really killed the plumed archer. Their mobility became a nice to have, rather than a tactically overwhelming advantage.
Watching this wife my wife while eating a double cheeseburger and having a coke. Life is good guys.
I think spamming crossbows/arbs and have a small group of plums to raid or snipe is the best option here, the plums advantages are too specific and situational to justify the cost of making them the bulk of your army.
Yeah, and mangonels are not often a problem for Mayans with how strong their eagle warriors are.
@@drschwandi3687 Exactly, plums can counter mangonels but hte micro-management cost is insane, you shouldn't be fighting siege with archers in the first place
Maybe this is why my Mayan win rate is so slow I still play them like the AOC days and I should just stuck with xbows. I just love Plumes so much
6:07-:6:50 is a reason why not to play Age of Empires. How long since DE is out? We still no where near in balancing ranged units with macro. You might as well add "Terran Marines" from StarCraft with the stimpacks.
It occurred to me that since Plummed Archers are fast units, they would pair well with Eagle Warriors and allow your army to out-run or catch up with many other enemies. In addition, Eagle Warriors and Plummed Archers compliment each other very well. Eagle Warriors have bonuses against siege, monks, and knights. Meanwhile, Plumed Archers do well against most infantry.
I was about try out Mayans with their cool and fast archers but when I saw how poorly they do against those unit I was discouraged. I really don't play any Native American tribes, but the best thing is to know how to counter them... Sicilians kind of fun have even better pierce armor with their Imperial Tech. Thank you! Spirit! What's your background in mathematics?
I can't speak to their quality but the extra speed makes them feel easier to play. Unless they're not actually faster, and this is just a placebo effect because they look like they're running.
No, they are really fast. If i'm not mistaken plumed archers are as fast as woad raiders without squires. (1,2 tiles/sec) That's pretty crazy. 😅
If they ever add the Purépecha/Tarascan empire, they'll need to switch the Plumed Archers and crossbow techs to them and give the Mayan skirmishers replacements.
Ah, yes, the American answer to the Briton Longbowman.
Edit: And also the Celtic Woad Raider.
oh i missed the plumed archer with old obsidian arrow unique tech, they just DESTROY anything
Seems like you really want Arbalesters if the enemy is going cavalry and Plumed Archers otherwise, simply because they don't evaporate from a single Onager shot
I kind of disagree. When you mass enough PA and then mix whatever meat shield before them they are practically unkillable. And even when enemy gets close shredding the numbers are so slow because they have a lot of HP.
Mayans are my main civ, they are a perfect raiding unit in Castle age, 8 plumes can easily get many sneaky raids they are soooo good at this, they are also great against eagles, when facing meso civs opponent will probably rely on eagles to face your arbalest, a switch to plumes is easier than going for eagles too, even inca eagles are not a thread with some micro because of the +2 bonus vs infantry, plumes are also great at defending against húsar and fast infantry raids since they can chase them faster, very good on those wood raider raids and also good against Ghulam which is supposed to be an anti archer unit lastly I find them really bad against Sicilian cavaliers, Sicilians in general are a thought matchup for mayans, arbalest don't do that much better against cavaliers and eagles struggles vs first crusade, against Sicilians you need good infantry or good heavy Calvary which is hard for a civ with no Calvary, supplies, champions, slow farms and generic halbs which however get less bonus damage against Sicilian Calvary.
If Rattan archers, with their tiny shields, can survive on the battlefield, then why wouldn't plumed archers be able to survive as well, with their naked chests and no armour?
I think plumes are pretty underwhelming. They cost more, harder to mass and where they are better than arbs, the difference is pretty small (maybe with the exception of getting hit by onagers). They are a cool unit, I wish they were better.
imp age skirms comparison, can you use plumed archers as the meatshield that lets arbalesters outperform them? It's sort of looking to me like you can- assuming you're up against pure skirms at least.
Honestly you have the worst patch to micro those plumes 😂. I can see them regroup instead of going into a straight line.
So ya i still believe they should do better against knights because of their speed and the ability to go into choke points
Should jave done the comparison against teuton palis as well. Teutons slowadins feel bad against them as it doesnt feel like they can catch them at all. Arbs still might be better, but, running after a unit that is almost the same speed as your paladins feels bad
Plumed archers and Longbowman are the most versatile archers.
1:44 the idea of the archers being phisicalñy weak is an mistake. Medieval crossbows and bow demands a lot of strength
I had a dream… partian tactics tech would basically allow horse archers to attack while moving . 🙌🏻
Like at stronghold crusader
@@cano3391 yeah! They were dope in stronghold crusader🙌🏻
I swore it happened to me in the 2nd Attila mission cause of a glitch but people have said it was impossible
Isnt that the real history? Parthians had pro horseriders that could fire while riding on horsebqck?
The attack while moving is also a thing for AoE4's mangundai but sadly afaik despite of that it's a pretty weak unit the last time I checked
what about comparing plumes to horse archers? it seems if you want a foot archer it's best to stick with the archer line, but how do plumes stack up against horsey bois
How good are Ghulams against everything Mayans have?
So to expensive for 1v1 and noy atrong enough to commit in late gsme tgs. Essentially there are very little reasons to make them :(
My favourite peasant harasser! Somewhat cheap, fast and can be very annoying.
Oh for...
They end with costing 39/39, do they? God, that number is determined to follow me.
the fact they are jacked and clearly on steroids buffs this unit significantly
Mayans weren’t the same for me after they lost obsidian arrows. 😢
The best thing about Plumed Archers is the way they run.
that price difference vs mayan crossbows just makes them bad
Ok now test if the plummed archers still cost 37/37 🤡
My sister is sitting besides me and it hit me how would non gamers view us going in such details in this game lol
Man, plummed archer is a really far callback. Good times
How come elite plumed archers don't get bigger abs!
still waiting for "how good is samurai/teutonic knight"
Your transitions into your sponsorships are dumb and also I love them lol
Keep the videos coming! It's a Spirit Of The Law feast this month!
I don’t care about the numbers. They’re the best unit.
Plot twist: It's not feathers, it is their actual hair.
Plumes are my favourite unit by far. Love having a video just for them. I definitely go big into my plumes for gold and then back them up with all the halbs and skirms that I can afford so I keep my gold for unique times for eagles for onagers+ or trebs. The rest usually is an army that is good trash units for me
Make Obsidian Arrows Great Again!
What. Is this an April fools video or not?
Plumed archers have that ridiculous hat, whereas crossbowmen have a sleek, stylish, and practical helmet. Therefore, the crossbowman is objectively superior.