If you want to contribute to the cost of testing My Cash App is: $luvthemknives My Zelle is : Luvthemknives@gmail.com Batch 2 Test LTK Rezult (20CV)(Yes) V 4.42 Cr 19.47 Fe 73.78 Mo 1.06 W .437 60.1 HRC 20CV TwoSun Vandal (M390)(Yes) V 4.69 Cr 19.74 Fe 73.83 Mo 1.03 W .454 59.2 HRC M390 Microtech MSI (M390)(Yes) V 4.51 Cr 19.76 Fe 73.15 Ni .307 Mo 1.08 W .377 58.7 HRC M390 XTOUC SX603 button lock (14C)(Yes) Cr 14.13 Mn .655 Fe 84.71 Ni .217 Mo .126 59.8 HRC Aeb-L 14C28N composition Carbon C 0.62% Chromium Cr 14.00% Manganese Mn 0.60% Nitrogen N 0.11% Silicon Si 0.30% Phosphorus P 0.02% Sulfur S 0.01 ** 14C vs AEB-L These steels are nearly identical. If anyone can tell the difference between these two steels based on performance, it has less to do with the difference in chemistry and more to do with the different HT protocols being implemented, which would be true if you compared 13C26/AEB-L against itself with two different HT protocols - one to maximize hardness, the other to maximize corrosion resistance. 14C28N swaps out some carbon for nitrogen and adds more chromium to get a tiny bit more 'stainless'. Kizer Clairvoyant (S35VN)(Yes) V. 3.47 Cr 14.26 Fe 78.84 Nb .595 Mo 2.18 59.6 HRC S35VN Vosteed Thunderbird (S35VN)(Yes) V 3.64 Cr 14.32 Fe 78.57 Nb .616 Mo 2.02 61.0 HRC S35vn Todd Begg Bodega (D2)(Yes) V .733 Cr 11.81 Fe 83.86 Mo .892 62.1 HRC D2 CJRB Pyrite (AR-RPM9)(Yes) V .106 Cr 17.46 Mn .593 Fe 80.53 Mo 1.14 59.9 HRC 440c or similar (I’m calling it AR-RPM9) AR-RPM9 (Published Composition) C 0.90 Cr 18.00 Mo 1.0 V .10 Co .30 Ni 0.00-0.40 Mn 0.45 Si 0.20-0.80 Civivi Sinisys (14c28n)(Yes) Cr 13.71 Mn .754 Fe 85.24 Mo .128 60.0 HRC Aeb-L (I’m calling it 14C28N) Kizer Sheepdog (154CM)(Yes) V .285 Cr 13.42 Fe 81.29 Mo 4.15 59.6 HRC 154cm Fat Dragon Divinity Tree (M390)(Yes) V 4.38 Cr 18.93 Fe 74.17 Ni .274 Mo 1.08 W .598 58.2 HRC M390 Remette Peacock (9CR18MOV)(Yes) V .084 Cr 16.68 Fe 82.00 Mo .455 61.7HRC 9cr18mov Sitivien ST996 (M390)(Yes) V 4.01 Cr 19.72 Fe 74.34 Ni .269 Mo 1.03 W .452 58.2 HRC M390 Protech Rockeye (S35VN)(Yes) V 3.24 Cr 14.04 Fe 79.32 Nb .596 Mo 2.06 59.9 HRC S35vn HUAAO (M390)(Not) V .171 Cr 13.93 Fe 85.04 Mo .565 61.3 HRC Aeb-L (but maybe 14C28N) SMKE Arius (clone) knife (M390)(Yes) V 4.80 Cr 20.03 Fe 72.63 Mo 1.04 W .420 60.2 HRC M390 Olitans (M390)(No) V .088 Cr 17.01 Fe 81.29 Mo .649 58.4 HRC 440C or similar (maybe 9cr18 ?) Kunwu Pulsar (Elmax)(Yes) V 3.47 Cr 18.58 Fe 76.54 Ni .353 Mo .922 60.3 HRC Elmax How an XRF Analyzer works: www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/handheld-xrf/how-xrf-works.html Why carbon and other light elements are not detected with the XRF Analyzer: www.pxrfs.com.au/light-elements-difficult-measure-portable-xrf/ Spreadsheet of knife testing results to date: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/edit?usp=drivesdk Join my Patreon & get in on the early bird knife sales & monthly drawings: www.patreon.com/LuvThemKnives?fan_landing=true My email address : luvthemknives@gmail.com My instagram instagram.com/luvthemknives
I find myself all giddy with coffee sippin' anticipation whenever these show & tell steel videos drop. It's like tabloid tv for knife addicts. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
I’m just an enthusiast that’s curious. I’m really surprised at some of the results myself. So I’ll continue to do more test batches to develop more data. Maybe some larger patterns will develop as a result. This will all get added to the spreadsheet.
Mr LTK, the main reason I subscribe to you is BECAUSE you show knives no one else does! Also, the fact that I can actually afford a good many of them is a factor. That and your personality and wisdom is appreciated. 👍👍
Some shocking results both positive and negative. Some pleasing results as well. Now I am left with an empty feeling when I look out among my collection with a sad wondering.
Thanks for the tests! Personally I don't give Microtech a pass for a low Rockwell on M390. I'm not buying the 'it's intentional' claim. It's just heat treated poorly. They could use less expensive steel to obtain high rust resistance and toughness.
@@tacticalcenter8658 you’re cute. It’s my fault for expecting a real answer, and not this auto generated response. But I’m done here. I wasn’t engaging with you for meaningless back and forth
Great stuff, LTK! Weighing in with my two heavy cents, here... 😅 ... I've owned hundreds of knives over six decades. Way back, when no one was testing the steel at the consumer level, certainly. Yet I've had knives that have kept their edges very well, but it would depend upon what I'm cutting, right? I've also had knives that were great in every way - ergonomically, aesthetically, and useably; yet I might have to sharpen them more often than others. What? me worry? 😅 Not! However I do commiserate with any of us who spend large wads of cash on knives that don't turn out to be entirely magic! It's a numbers game that we're playing, like holding a winning hand - five of these 10 of those, what you got? What can I say? 👊🗡️👍
Wow thanks for doing this. You have made me give the CJRB knives a try. The fact that rpm9 is coming back over 61 means it should hold a edge for a long time. I’m not sure on the toughness but I haven’t seen anyone complaining about chipping. I’m already a fan of 9cr even more now that I realize it’s close to 440c. I’m old enough to remember when 440c was the end all be all. An my favorite outdoors knife still is definitely 14c28n. You even gave me some smack talk with the AEBL guys and their 300+ knives that do nothing different then my $50 dollar user. Very informative and useful. I would love to see brands tested to see what is their average hardness. How many points is excepted? I totally left the super steel band wagon when M390 was being pushed and was nothing they claimed. It will take many hard use videos (something we don’t see anymore) for me to buy the latest super steel. Personally I don’t care about stains so their steel has no draw. I want toughness and ease of sharpening. We have this already in carbon steel. People that really use tools don’t worry about rust and corrosion. Just my 2 cents. People can argue all they want and believe fairytales. In my years working construction and then mechanic I’ve had many tools I’ve used in all weather. My experience with knives stainless is brittle and harder to sharpen. Simple as that.
@@tacticalcenter8658 thanks wasn’t aware. I personally have a few cheap Chinese knives in 9cr they have been really good knives. Can’t say what they are better then but they have put up with my abuse and don’t look destroyed. Which many other knives didn’t far as well. I’m absolutely done with spyderco overpriced and no made for my use. I had no idea it wasn’t powder metal wondering if that was a marketing lie or a overseas metal company lie. Most steels used are at least 20 years old and knife companies change the name to make it sound new. When in truth it was a bearing steel or a race steel. I just don’t waste my time buying expensive knives so I look for the good in the budget. Worse case I’ll just keep using my coldsteel knives. Lol
Thank you! As a noob, it would be super helpful if you could post a graphic giving the optimal heat treat for each of the steel you cover as you go over them. Extra work I know!
Wonder if the low HRC on the MSI knife was because the test point was on the post heat treat surface grinding. Grinding process could have slightly annealed if it got hot enough during the grinding. Wouldn’t be surprised if the beveled area of the blade had a higher HRC.
Kinda curious about mt other steels. I have one in xhp I don't feel as bad now, had only Kept it because it was my first. Also I was told my makora 22 was regular m390. Now I'm a like nervous about my cypher 2.
I buy a lot of non-stainless very hard HRC steel. K390, M4, 15v, Maxamet, On the "toughness" issue... 20-30% of the knives will chip a little when using the factory edge. I will sharpen out the fatigued steel until the chipping is mostly gone. Then the knife is "good to go" the clean fresh edge will usually be stable and cut a very long time. I am willing to put up with the break in period of the knife. HRC is generally claimed to be 62-65.
I would be interested to see the hrc test done on a Ritter Hogue. They claim to be 20cv at 61-62 hrc. I love my Ritter and would be surprised if it isn't 61+
Very informative stuff, thx. Just bought the Astio from the same Steel Craft series as the Bodega pictured here, because i love that gorgeous wicked blade and the whole general design, but didnt want to spend a stack on the custom version. My hope was they dropped a Reate version as they already did in the past with the Bodega(or it was the Glimpse?!) but it never came out for the Astio, as the price on this one looks kinda steep for D2 steel, but from what ive seen they're very well built and looks like they were very well heat treated.
Love this video learned a lot thank you I’m shocked by smke having the best heat treated m390 bought one immediately. Not a huge clone fan but for 600 dollars less than the Koenig at the best Rockwell on the table it’s a win for the consumer
Many Thaks Paddy for your jobe to do such a interesting and usfull vids! Through your works I am convinced that buying knives with he M390 blades is a waste of money 🤣🤣🤜 🤛
My Koenig Arius is m390 and it's 62.2rc , my pm2 in m390 is 62 rc, and my liong mah kuf v2 in m390 is 61.9. All tested by me. These are unicorns and definitely not the norm.
In our testing we saw most were under 62 but a couple were 62. Nothing over 62 that we tested. The S110V was hitting over 62 and so we’re some of their other steels
Thank you for doing these tests. It keeps the companies honest and us buyers well informed. HRC is very important to buyers like myself. If they claim a certain hardness range it should be within that range. To me, HRC is more important than what kind of steel it is. The "best" knife steel is worthless if it's too damn soft and won't hold an edge. Thank you again!
@@tacticalcenter8658 that's because he's more interested in just selling knives with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that's written on his site to make people that don't know better think they are getting good ht'd steel. I went to the site recently and just read everything on the new model and felt more like a sales pitch that giving real info. Nothing wrong with the sales pitch but if your making big claims they need to have a section for the important info with backed up 3rd party verification.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I was unfamiliar with the term "midtech" so I googled it. The only definition I found was from a forum in 2004 and they said it was exactly what you said it wasn't. "Mid Tech is as DaveH said, knives that can be called hybryde between customs and productions. Generally, machines cuts the overall shape but the finish (e.x. grinding and sharpening, checking if everything is ok)is 'handmade'... Simonich knives are usually midtech. And there's a proper mark on them, too." Another definition just said it is when the designer helps assemble them which is, again, exactly what you said it isn't. Care to clarify? EDIT: From the same forum page is a post from Ken Onion who claims to have invented the term. He goes onto say "I decided to get the parts cut out for me and I would do the grinding shaping and finnishing myself ." Is the issue that Kunwu isn't shaping the blades or something? I'm confused.
So I just tested my MSI this morning on my Rockwell tester and it averaged 63c, now mine is from a different batch for sure mine has screws in the lock pins but mine tests where it should
I’m glad to hear that. I have the stitch as well. So I’ll send mine out to test. If mine comes back soft then I’ll wonder why their Rockwell varies so wildly.
I’d really appreciate if you could send it to me to have confirmation from my tester. I just don’t believe 63 HRC. I’ve never seen 63 in any M390 ever ! If it is then I’m really curious why they are so inconsistent with their heat treatment.
About ar rpm 9 : if they know (and they know) that some Americans with many subscribers use xrf guns to screen the chemical composition, and IF they were dishonest, they'd just throw 440c in there (imagine the price difference between an old ingot stainless and a newer powder metallurgy one!) And call it a day. Bar some microscopy/crystallography to check if the structure is fine and even (assuming the heat treat is correct!) , you have no way of saying the this is ARPM and not 440c.
I need to send this testing result to Artisan to have them respond. AR-RPM9 is basically 9cr so I’m thinking that they’re not trying to pull a fast one. They look similar to an XRF. Stainless steel 440C, also known as UNS S44004, principal elements are . 95% to 1.2% carbon, 16% to 18% chromium, . 75% nickel, with traces of manganese, silicon, copper, molybdenum, phosphorus and sulfur.
@@LuvThemKnives yeah they are basically the same chemical composition but the real important difference if the powder metallurgy VS ingot aspect. The same steel in ingot vs PM shows dramatic increase in performance in all aspects (toughness edge retention even corrosion resistance ) . The fact that arpm is powder metallurgy is the main selling point of this steel
@@TheOneAndOnlySame Yes. I totally agree. And I don’t have the ability to address that issue. Russell at Artisan told me that AR-RPM9 outperforms other steels in its class. I don’t have personal knowledge of that either. I’ll see if I can get someone to do a cutting performance evaluation on it.
@@LuvThemKnives Exactly, AR-RPM9 is more of a change to the process of making 9cr more than a 'new steel', it isn't all that surprising that it can be done at a relatively low cost compared to introducing a fresh steel recipe or developing a whole new method of producing particle metallurgy steels
I don't know much about heat treating but I cannot understand why so many companies have such soft HRC especially for the high prices so many of them charge, I know there's a lot that goes into the prices of knives but good HT should be a priority otherwise why buy a knife for the blade steel if it isn't gonna perform the way it was designed to
Have heard the Golden K390 is softer than that coming out of Seki.. you've tested a Police 4; would be very interested to see a test on one of the Bento Box sprint Para 3s or PM2. Thanks.
To be honest any HRC higher than 58 is ok so I would not be "sad" if knife didnt hit 60-61. After beating the crap out of s90v that supposed to be MAX 59, 14c28n / M390 that often is around 58-59 and few 440C knives that I knew where 59 I can say that.... I doesnt really matter if you actually use knife, not just cut paper with it. To be honest I can even say that for most of time when I cut hard plastic packages and cut wires in work, Im finding hard to justify getting any high end steel in knife as M390 or cheap 440c I pretty much work the same for me, I get those knives because they look nice so most often I carry with my... yep, Ganzo knife as they are great quality and I dont need to worry if I break them, as I can just get another one. One time I even used it to pry metal bolt out of car tire... I chipped it just "a bit" but next day I clean it and sharpen it and it was ready to get more work done. I bet most people would not do that with fancy steel knife that costed 300-400 bucks :D
So much for microtechs Magical MK Steel and their still trying to say its Better than Magnacut!! I use to own tons of microtechs But after using several I soon realized they don't stay sharp long and people give Medford Hell!! 🤣😂🤣
I'm sorry, we only sell in the US station at present, but we will sell to more places in the future, please pay attention to us, thank you for your recognition, wish you a happy life
Why is 58/59 OK for Protech M390, but not for the Chinese brands? And the 60 HRC of the 20CV in your knife is basically the same. I really like your tests, but please be a bit more objective and a little less biased towards American knives. That would be great.
I didn’t think I was being biased in favor of American knives. Under 60 on M390 isn’t in the acceptable range from what our former testing team had determined. 60+ was in the acceptable range. But everyone can make their own judgement on hardness.
I'd have to disagree that soft m390 is easier to sharpen than harder properly ht'd m390 is. Yes you diamond stones will eat through soft m390 like butter but at the end of the sharpening when you're trying to deburr the blade to reveal a nice crisp edge, it will take forever and you'll be left disappointed.
Two Sun has higher hrc on m390 than Microtech!?!? That's hilarious but its not. And low hrc being easier to sharpen and tougher is a myth. Soft steel is the hardest to sharpen and de-burr
As good as this information is, it seems it would be far less interesting without your enthusiastic commentary. Thanks for making "Science" fun to watch. And yes, please review the crappy little toddler knife with the glow sticks in it. I can't figure out why it exists.
If you want to contribute to the cost of testing
My Cash App is: $luvthemknives
My Zelle is : Luvthemknives@gmail.com
Batch 2 Test
LTK Rezult (20CV)(Yes)
V 4.42
Cr 19.47
Fe 73.78
Mo 1.06
W .437
60.1 HRC
20CV
TwoSun Vandal (M390)(Yes)
V 4.69
Cr 19.74
Fe 73.83
Mo 1.03
W .454
59.2 HRC
M390
Microtech MSI (M390)(Yes)
V 4.51
Cr 19.76
Fe 73.15
Ni .307
Mo 1.08
W .377
58.7 HRC
M390
XTOUC SX603 button lock (14C)(Yes)
Cr 14.13
Mn .655
Fe 84.71
Ni .217
Mo .126
59.8 HRC
Aeb-L
14C28N composition
Carbon C 0.62%
Chromium Cr 14.00%
Manganese Mn 0.60%
Nitrogen N 0.11%
Silicon Si 0.30%
Phosphorus P 0.02%
Sulfur S 0.01
** 14C vs AEB-L These steels are nearly identical. If anyone can tell the difference between these two steels based on performance, it has less to do with the difference in chemistry and more to do with the different HT protocols being implemented, which would be true if you compared 13C26/AEB-L against itself with two different HT protocols - one to maximize hardness, the other to maximize corrosion resistance. 14C28N swaps out some carbon for nitrogen and adds more chromium to get a tiny bit more 'stainless'.
Kizer Clairvoyant (S35VN)(Yes)
V. 3.47
Cr 14.26
Fe 78.84
Nb .595
Mo 2.18
59.6 HRC
S35VN
Vosteed Thunderbird (S35VN)(Yes)
V 3.64
Cr 14.32
Fe 78.57
Nb .616
Mo 2.02
61.0 HRC
S35vn
Todd Begg Bodega (D2)(Yes)
V .733
Cr 11.81
Fe 83.86
Mo .892
62.1 HRC
D2
CJRB Pyrite (AR-RPM9)(Yes)
V .106
Cr 17.46
Mn .593
Fe 80.53
Mo 1.14
59.9 HRC
440c or similar (I’m calling it AR-RPM9)
AR-RPM9 (Published Composition)
C 0.90
Cr 18.00
Mo 1.0
V .10
Co .30
Ni 0.00-0.40
Mn 0.45
Si 0.20-0.80
Civivi Sinisys (14c28n)(Yes)
Cr 13.71
Mn .754
Fe 85.24
Mo .128
60.0 HRC
Aeb-L (I’m calling it 14C28N)
Kizer Sheepdog (154CM)(Yes)
V .285
Cr 13.42
Fe 81.29
Mo 4.15
59.6 HRC
154cm
Fat Dragon Divinity Tree (M390)(Yes)
V 4.38
Cr 18.93
Fe 74.17
Ni .274
Mo 1.08
W .598
58.2 HRC
M390
Remette Peacock (9CR18MOV)(Yes)
V .084
Cr 16.68
Fe 82.00
Mo .455
61.7HRC
9cr18mov
Sitivien ST996 (M390)(Yes)
V 4.01
Cr 19.72
Fe 74.34
Ni .269
Mo 1.03
W .452
58.2 HRC
M390
Protech Rockeye (S35VN)(Yes)
V 3.24
Cr 14.04
Fe 79.32
Nb .596
Mo 2.06
59.9 HRC
S35vn
HUAAO (M390)(Not)
V .171
Cr 13.93
Fe 85.04
Mo .565
61.3 HRC
Aeb-L (but maybe 14C28N)
SMKE Arius (clone) knife (M390)(Yes)
V 4.80
Cr 20.03
Fe 72.63
Mo 1.04
W .420
60.2 HRC
M390
Olitans (M390)(No)
V .088
Cr 17.01
Fe 81.29
Mo .649
58.4 HRC
440C or similar (maybe 9cr18 ?)
Kunwu Pulsar (Elmax)(Yes)
V 3.47
Cr 18.58
Fe 76.54
Ni .353
Mo .922
60.3 HRC
Elmax
How an XRF Analyzer works: www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/handheld-xrf/how-xrf-works.html
Why carbon and other light elements are not detected with the XRF Analyzer: www.pxrfs.com.au/light-elements-difficult-measure-portable-xrf/
Spreadsheet of knife testing results to date: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/edit?usp=drivesdk
Join my Patreon & get in on the early bird knife sales & monthly drawings: www.patreon.com/LuvThemKnives?fan_landing=true
My email address : luvthemknives@gmail.com
My instagram instagram.com/luvthemknives
I find myself all giddy with coffee sippin' anticipation whenever these show & tell steel videos drop. It's like tabloid tv for knife addicts. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
I’m just an enthusiast that’s curious. I’m really surprised at some of the results myself. So I’ll continue to do more test batches to develop more data. Maybe some larger patterns will develop as a result. This will all get added to the spreadsheet.
Same ☕
Thanks for taking the time LT 😊. Still liking the Vandal .
Mr LTK, the main reason I subscribe to you is BECAUSE you show knives no one else does! Also, the fact that I can actually afford a good many of them is a factor. That and your personality and wisdom is appreciated. 👍👍
Some shocking results both positive and negative. Some pleasing results as well. Now I am left with an empty feeling when I look out among my collection with a sad wondering.
Italian knives are notoriously known for low hrc. Giantmouse, Lionsteel, Fox, and MKM are all good suggestions
they're certainly notorious
I'm happy to see the rezult test so well. I'm getting one this week, you did a great job on the design
Ltk knives are still just awesome designs 👏 👌 😍
Very interesting results. Thanks LTKLee.
Mad respect for the transparency on your own product.
Ltk is the best,I wish you had a million subscribers,best of luck hermano...love your content
Great job! Thanks for doing these! I'd love to see more hardness testing on Kizer's N690 and 154CM.
Love these videos. Thanks for doing these.
Great video and information. I always appreciate your hard work on your content. 👍🍻
Doing the lords work out here. Can’t wait for your new website to launch!!!
Favorite knife video series thanks!
I love how your tested your own knife! Kudos on the integrity 👍
Thanks for another exciting round of test results! Read em and weep lol
Great video ! Thank you so much for your work on the testing 👍👍
This is awesome! Thank you!
hell yeah bud. thanks!
Wonderful video. I love it when you get down to numbers and objectivity. Cheers!!
I'm so glad these tests are back in action!
Thanks LTK
Thanks for the tests! Personally I don't give Microtech a pass for a low Rockwell on M390. I'm not buying the 'it's intentional' claim. It's just heat treated poorly. They could use less expensive steel to obtain high rust resistance and toughness.
@@tacticalcenter8658 source? Is this something Microtech has said, or is this your belief?
@@tacticalcenter8658 you say “it’s low so they can grind it easier and polish it”. Is this something Microtech stated or your speculation?
@@tacticalcenter8658 yeah. but you’ve avoided my question twice now. So I guess that answers that.
@@tacticalcenter8658 you’re cute. It’s my fault for expecting a real answer, and not this auto generated response. But I’m done here. I wasn’t engaging with you for meaningless back and forth
Really glad your doing this again
Very good info. Thank you
I might just pick up one of those Remette's. I like the look, and maybe it'd be a good beater.
Cool Thanks for putting the Work in 👊🏼
Great stuff, LTK!
Weighing in with my two heavy cents, here... 😅
... I've owned hundreds of knives over six decades. Way back, when no one was testing the steel at the consumer level, certainly. Yet I've had knives that have kept their edges very well, but it would depend upon what I'm cutting, right? I've also had knives that were great in every way - ergonomically, aesthetically, and useably; yet I might have to sharpen them more often than others. What? me worry? 😅 Not!
However I do commiserate with any of us who spend large wads of cash on knives that don't turn out to be entirely magic! It's a numbers game that we're playing, like holding a winning hand - five of these 10 of those, what you got? What can I say? 👊🗡️👍
I love these tests! Keep it up!
Wow thanks for doing this. You have made me give the CJRB knives a try. The fact that rpm9 is coming back over 61 means it should hold a edge for a long time. I’m not sure on the toughness but I haven’t seen anyone complaining about chipping. I’m already a fan of 9cr even more now that I realize it’s close to 440c. I’m old enough to remember when 440c was the end all be all. An my favorite outdoors knife still is definitely 14c28n. You even gave me some smack talk with the AEBL guys and their 300+ knives that do nothing different then my $50 dollar user.
Very informative and useful. I would love to see brands tested to see what is their average hardness. How many points is excepted?
I totally left the super steel band wagon when M390 was being pushed and was nothing they claimed. It will take many hard use videos (something we don’t see anymore) for me to buy the latest super steel.
Personally I don’t care about stains so their steel has no draw. I want toughness and ease of sharpening. We have this already in carbon steel. People that really use tools don’t worry about rust and corrosion. Just my 2 cents. People can argue all they want and believe fairytales. In my years working construction and then mechanic I’ve had many tools I’ve used in all weather. My experience with knives stainless is brittle and harder to sharpen. Simple as that.
@@tacticalcenter8658 thanks wasn’t aware. I personally have a few cheap Chinese knives in 9cr they have been really good knives. Can’t say what they are better then but they have put up with my abuse and don’t look destroyed. Which many other knives didn’t far as well. I’m absolutely done with spyderco overpriced and no made for my use.
I had no idea it wasn’t powder metal wondering if that was a marketing lie or a overseas metal company lie. Most steels used are at least 20 years old and knife companies change the name to make it sound new. When in truth it was a bearing steel or a race steel.
I just don’t waste my time buying expensive knives so I look for the good in the budget. Worse case I’ll just keep using my coldsteel knives. Lol
@@tacticalcenter8658 Where did it say it wasn't powdered metallurgy??
@@tacticalcenter8658 thats pretty vague, mind giving me links?
Thank you! As a noob, it would be super helpful if you could post a graphic giving the optimal heat treat for each of the steel you cover as you go over them. Extra work I know!
Thank you LTK this was very informative i just got a LUDT I i guess it's soft😢
I really appreciate you doing this 😊 all this makes me want to stay away from M390. Have you done any of Bestechs m390?
Good idea on Bestech. I’ll make a note.
Wonder if the low HRC on the MSI knife was because the test point was on the post heat treat surface grinding. Grinding process could have slightly annealed if it got hot enough during the grinding. Wouldn’t be surprised if the beveled area of the blade had a higher HRC.
I’ll test another one and see what happens.
...thank you we need more of this!
Keep up the great vids! Hilarious and fascinating series!
Love that Divinity Tree.
If they're gonna try to toughen m390, why not just use a tougher steel?
Trends
@@phreakinpher exactly
Kinda curious about mt other steels. I have one in xhp I don't feel as bad now, had only Kept it because it was my first. Also I was told my makora 22 was regular m390. Now I'm a like nervous about my cypher 2.
Very interesting LTK, would love to see a couple Reate knives if you do this again. BTW the Vandal is the best looking Two Sun ever !
Love this series!
Just found your channel, got my subscription in the first 16 seconds.
Thanks for doing this.
Love these test videos LTK
Great video! Much appreciated!
I buy a lot of non-stainless very hard HRC steel. K390, M4, 15v, Maxamet, On the "toughness" issue...
20-30% of the knives will chip a little when using the factory edge. I will sharpen out the fatigued steel until the chipping is mostly gone.
Then the knife is "good to go" the clean fresh edge will usually be stable and cut a very long time.
I am willing to put up with the break in period of the knife. HRC is generally claimed to be 62-65.
No real surprises from the M390 and S35vn models 😐 I'll take a higher HRC AEB/14c over those 58-59 other steels every time.
You're going to have 200k subs soon enough. 😉 You're the real deal.
I would be interested to see the hrc test done on a Ritter Hogue. They claim to be 20cv at 61-62 hrc. I love my Ritter and would be surprised if it isn't 61+
Great Idea. I’ll put it on my list
Thanks for this sir!
Very informative stuff, thx.
Just bought the Astio from the same Steel Craft series as the Bodega pictured here, because i love that gorgeous wicked blade and the whole general design, but didnt want to spend a stack on the custom version.
My hope was they dropped a Reate version as they already did in the past with the Bodega(or it was the Glimpse?!) but it never came out for the Astio, as the price on this one looks kinda steep for D2 steel, but from what ive seen they're very well built and looks like they were very well heat treated.
I’m surprised that the Arius clone was actually in M390 and had an HRc over 59…
Love this video learned a lot thank you I’m shocked by smke having the best heat treated m390 bought one immediately. Not a huge clone fan but for 600 dollars less than the Koenig at the best Rockwell on the table it’s a win for the consumer
Many Thaks Paddy for your jobe to do such a interesting and usfull vids! Through your works I am convinced that buying knives with he M390 blades is a waste of money 🤣🤣🤜 🤛
I knew it'd be Spyderco
There wasn’t any Spydercos tested unless I missed something 🤷♂️
@@JCpNK you did, he said the only 62 m390 he ever tested was spyderco
My Koenig Arius is m390 and it's 62.2rc , my pm2 in m390 is 62 rc, and my liong mah kuf v2 in m390 is 61.9. All tested by me. These are unicorns and definitely not the norm.
Lee spyderco does 62 and sometimes even higher m390, so horse w unicorn strap-on.
In our testing we saw most were under 62 but a couple were 62. Nothing over 62 that we tested. The S110V was hitting over 62 and so we’re some of their other steels
Damn that's crazy that the fake Arius has a better heat treat than microtech MSI
Thank you for doing these tests. It keeps the companies honest and us buyers well informed. HRC is very important to buyers like myself. If they claim a certain hardness range it should be within that range. To me, HRC is more important than what kind of steel it is. The "best" knife steel is worthless if it's too damn soft and won't hold an edge. Thank you again!
This was fun 🎉
Are you going to test the Kunwu Chad when it comes out? They’re claiming some crazy HRC numbers for that PM60.
I’m definitely going to get a Kunwu Chad so hopefully I’ll remember to get it tested.
@@tacticalcenter8658 that's because he's more interested in just selling knives with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that's written on his site to make people that don't know better think they are getting good ht'd steel. I went to the site recently and just read everything on the new model and felt more like a sales pitch that giving real info. Nothing wrong with the sales pitch but if your making big claims they need to have a section for the important info with backed up 3rd party verification.
@@tacticalcenter8658 What are some of the lies? I checked their website and the Pulsar's HRC for Elmax is 60-62.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Huh. Well this one tested at 60 and its advertised to be 60-62.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I was unfamiliar with the term "midtech" so I googled it. The only definition I found was from a forum in 2004 and they said it was exactly what you said it wasn't. "Mid Tech is as DaveH said, knives that can be called hybryde between customs and productions. Generally, machines cuts the overall shape but the finish (e.x. grinding and sharpening, checking if everything is ok)is 'handmade'... Simonich knives are usually midtech. And there's a proper mark on them, too." Another definition just said it is when the designer helps assemble them which is, again, exactly what you said it isn't. Care to clarify?
EDIT: From the same forum page is a post from Ken Onion who claims to have invented the term. He goes onto say "I decided to get the parts cut out for me and I would do the grinding shaping and finnishing myself ." Is the issue that Kunwu isn't shaping the blades or something? I'm confused.
Interesting that AR-RPM9 cam back as 440c or similar, BUT the 9cr knife with low values came back as 9cr? I wonder what the implication of that is?
So I just tested my MSI this morning on my Rockwell tester and it averaged 63c, now mine is from a different batch for sure mine has screws in the lock pins but mine tests where it should
I’m glad to hear that. I have the stitch as well. So I’ll send mine out to test. If mine comes back soft then I’ll wonder why their Rockwell varies so wildly.
I’d really appreciate if you could send it to me to have confirmation from my tester. I just don’t believe 63 HRC. I’ve never seen 63 in any M390 ever ! If it is then I’m really curious why they are so inconsistent with their heat treatment.
About ar rpm 9 : if they know (and they know) that some Americans with many subscribers use xrf guns to screen the chemical composition, and IF they were dishonest, they'd just throw 440c in there (imagine the price difference between an old ingot stainless and a newer powder metallurgy one!) And call it a day.
Bar some microscopy/crystallography to check if the structure is fine and even (assuming the heat treat is correct!) , you have no way of saying the this is ARPM and not 440c.
I need to send this testing result to Artisan to have them respond. AR-RPM9 is basically 9cr so I’m thinking that they’re not trying to pull a fast one. They look similar to an XRF. Stainless steel 440C, also known as UNS S44004, principal elements are . 95% to 1.2% carbon, 16% to 18% chromium, . 75% nickel, with traces of manganese, silicon, copper, molybdenum, phosphorus and sulfur.
@@LuvThemKnives yeah they are basically the same chemical composition but the real important difference if the powder metallurgy VS ingot aspect. The same steel in ingot vs PM shows dramatic increase in performance in all aspects (toughness edge retention even corrosion resistance ) .
The fact that arpm is powder metallurgy is the main selling point of this steel
@@TheOneAndOnlySame Yes. I totally agree. And I don’t have the ability to address that issue. Russell at Artisan told me that AR-RPM9 outperforms other steels in its class. I don’t have personal knowledge of that either. I’ll see if I can get someone to do a cutting performance evaluation on it.
@@LuvThemKnives 👍
@@LuvThemKnives Exactly, AR-RPM9 is more of a change to the process of making 9cr more than a 'new steel', it isn't all that surprising that it can be done at a relatively low cost compared to introducing a fresh steel recipe or developing a whole new method of producing particle metallurgy steels
Remette is claiming that their Steed in M390 is at 61-63 #rockwizzlefoshizzle .
I’ll definitely be testing the Remette M390 in the coming weeks.
I am a knife salesman, but the data given by the factory is 61-63HRC. I hope that more customers can give their own practical answers
Is WE pretty consistent with there 20cv being about 59/60 hrc?
It looks like it. Pretty much 60 hrc
I don't know much about heat treating but I cannot understand why so many companies have such soft HRC especially for the high prices so many of them charge, I know there's a lot that goes into the prices of knives but good HT should be a priority otherwise why buy a knife for the blade steel if it isn't gonna perform the way it was designed to
I'm guessing Microtech figures a lower HRC will result in fewer returns for snapped off tips.😉
Have heard the Golden K390 is softer than that coming out of Seki.. you've tested a Police 4; would be very interested to see a test on one of the Bento Box sprint Para 3s or PM2. Thanks.
It's true, multiple models have been poked from both factories in the same steel and by about a point Seki is harder.
@@johnscarborough4746 apparently, Seki comes in ~65.5. Bohler recommend max 64, so I'm not feeling so bad about the premium I paid Bento...!
Please test the Eafengrow DC53 steel.
To be honest any HRC higher than 58 is ok so I would not be "sad" if knife didnt hit 60-61.
After beating the crap out of s90v that supposed to be MAX 59, 14c28n / M390 that often is around 58-59 and few 440C knives that I knew where 59 I can say that.... I doesnt really matter if you actually use knife, not just cut paper with it.
To be honest I can even say that for most of time when I cut hard plastic packages and cut wires in work, Im finding hard to justify getting any high end steel in knife as M390 or cheap 440c I pretty much work the same for me, I get those knives because they look nice so most often I carry with my... yep, Ganzo knife as they are great quality and I dont need to worry if I break them, as I can just get another one. One time I even used it to pry metal bolt out of car tire... I chipped it just "a bit" but next day I clean it and sharpen it and it was ready to get more work done. I bet most people would not do that with fancy steel knife that costed 300-400 bucks :D
So much for microtechs Magical MK Steel and their still trying to say its Better than Magnacut!! I use to own tons of microtechs But after using several I soon realized they don't stay sharp long and people give Medford Hell!! 🤣😂🤣
You shoulld have HRC tested the Reate made Renegade designs Gungnir. I'm pretty sure mine is around 62
Best series
got that M390 mmmkayyy
Again - I would like to buy REMETTE Peacock, but can't find any in Europe :/ :(
I'm sorry, we only sell in the US station at present, but we will sell to more places in the future, please pay attention to us, thank you for your recognition, wish you a happy life
@@remetterhino Thx! :)
👍
Why is 58/59 OK for Protech M390, but not for the Chinese brands? And the 60 HRC of the 20CV in your knife is basically the same. I really like your tests, but please be a bit more objective and a little less biased towards American knives. That would be great.
I didn’t think I was being biased in favor of American knives. Under 60 on M390 isn’t in the acceptable range from what our former testing team had determined. 60+ was in the acceptable range. But everyone can make their own judgement on hardness.
@@LuvThemKnives And you really think that the difference between 59.8 and 60.2 is relevant?
My Vosteed Thunderbird in black and green s35vn was 58hrc🤮 That 9cr is the best on your list. Just about the only thing China can heat treat is 14c28n
My pocket Knife Peacock 9cr18mov all have around 60 HRC
@@remetterhino good job
I'd have to disagree that soft m390 is easier to sharpen than harder properly ht'd m390 is. Yes you diamond stones will eat through soft m390 like butter but at the end of the sharpening when you're trying to deburr the blade to reveal a nice crisp edge, it will take forever and you'll be left disappointed.
(Tony sighs lawyerly)
The last knife looks like a little mini bug out... With glow rhino 👊🏼
Hi boss,nice video!Could you test KUNWU's TAO(Vanax).I want to know if it is real.😛😛😛
I will do as soon as mine arrives. 👍
Two Sun has higher hrc on m390 than Microtech!?!? That's hilarious but its not. And low hrc being easier to sharpen and tougher is a myth. Soft steel is the hardest to sharpen and de-burr
As good as this information is, it seems it would be far less interesting without your enthusiastic commentary.
Thanks for making "Science" fun to watch.
And yes, please review the crappy little toddler knife with the glow sticks in it. I can't figure out why it exists.
🤜🔪🤛
Microtech is disappointing!