I Killed My 7800X3D...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 кві 2023
- I Found Out.
► framechasers.org/ - Discord and Support
► framechasers.org/consulting - Consults
► / chasersframe - Twitter
► / framechasers - Twitch
► lyla_meowth?igs... - Instagram
Join the community over on twitch and discord to talk tech and play some games with fellow frame chasers Tuesdays 5PM Saturdays 12PM PST.
#directdie #derbaur #deliddiemate - Ігри
It still baffles me that neither AMD nor Intel sell 'naked' CPU's with no heatspreader for enthusiasts. Remember when AMD's Athlon XP series were just exposed CPU's on the die? I'd love to not worry about killing a CPU from de-lidding. They could even upcharge for the 'enthusiast' CPU's while saving money on solder and a heatspreader and enthusiasts would flock to buy them. The companies could even bin the CPU's to ensure max performance and clock speeds. Much like Silicon Lottery used to do as a third party.
Damn rip to the first cpu it happens tho didn’t expect it to go south but hey shoutout for still giving us some really great content.
I'm glad to see the de-;id didnt seperate the cache die or the inactive spacer silicon from the compute die, that was my main worry, and thanks for all your FAFOing, its entertaining.
Hey! How do you lock the CPU speed? My 7950x3d fluctuated a LOT, and would really appreciate learning how you did that :)
There's no point in de-lidding and then putting the lid back on with liquid metal because it was soldered to begin with.
there's no point in doing any overclocking or tinkering, gains are abbyssmal
Less waittimes in rendering, more frames in Games is not the same as replacing solder with liquid Metal g@@snowpuddle9622
If they'd maybe reduce the IHS by 50% thickness that'd be great.
the solder is almost always not evenly spread out and even if it is, liquid metal is better at conducting heat
This is a perfect example of someone repeating what they heard and not testing it themselves
For a sec I thought it was double dye CPU and Debauer removed a whole CCD 😂😂, "yea, good job Debauer"
Great testing. Thank you for the test. and thanks to the supporters!
Did you even watch the video? He compared two different units. Absolutely horrible testing.
Love the videos. I Appreciate the effort you put into them
Hey FC, thanks for doing the video, I actually delidded two 7950x & 7950x3d already with no issues. Maybe that 7800x3d with only 1 ccd has problem with pressure dispersion and that is why it cracked. I even mounted a Noctua NH-D15 on the 7950x.. Also, just noticed you have the Gene board, good choice :)
i will rob you of your components next wednesday
Did you use the noctua spacer kit?
How did you mount the Noctua??? No one is doing delids with air coolers😢. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
@@3DxPOD You can use spacers to get the height correct, its sits niceley afterwards, loads of posts on the internet showing how this is done.......
@@FTLN Thanks I'll keep looking.
Awesome videos. Best way to lower the temp is pbo2 tuning and turn the max temp down in the bios. It'll help boost also. I know you're probably comparing stock to stock
Good stuff, my man. I'm really just commenting for the algo, but I do appreciate the work you do here.
Thank you for your work and the sacrifice of one 7800X3D. AMD has to figure out how to cool the heat trapped under the 3D V-Cache and structural silicon to increase clock speeds or focus only on IPC improvements for next gen.
The idea of trying the 20 games in the next video sounds good.
Many years ago, the difference between modding and stock - depending on X,Y,Z was often large. That remains the case today, but in some cases, and this is one - its interesting to see that the vendor has what is a hard to mod piece of engineering, and yet, its good out of the gate, and close to its maximum in a general sense.
Yep. Intel keeps making amazing CPUs
Imagine if they made a Ryzen 11 7990X3D, but instead of 3D stacked cache on top of the die, they put 512MB of L4 cache on top of the IO die
@@zihechen3111 you cant reduce latency, by moving farther away from the core
@@zihechen3111 The cost of the cache is wildly over-stated
This is the same silicon used in the RX 6500XT which was selling for $100
The cache is rougly 30mm² doesnt include memory, doesnt include fans, doesnt include power delivery or licencing fees for the HDMI and DP ports.
The 6500XT on the other hand does include all of those things, is 107mm² instead of ~30, and often comes with 2 free games, for $100, this cache is dirt cheap, and so are the CPUs, that 5950X was is cheaper to manufacture than the RX 6500XT, yet it was selling for what, 5-8x the price?
On the subject of cache, You can get at least 256MB of L4 on the 5800X3D and 7800X3D in addition to the cache on the CCD, if you take the same cache thats used on the 5800X3D, and instead of cutting it to this tiny little thing a few mm wide and long and slapping it on top of the reletively small CPU cache, you instead cover the entire IO die. This can do 2 things. If you no longer place cache on top of the CCD, the CCD can now run at higher frequencies, and 2, by placing the cache on top of the much cooler IO die, the cache should be able to be more dense due to the lower thermals
I mathed it out, taking the same cache density found on the 3D chip of the 5800X3D(64MB at roughly 30mm²) then instead of chopping the wafer up and using inactive silicon to cover the rest of the die like on the current X3d chips, they could just make a cache chip the same size as the entire 122mm² IO die for at least 256MB
Ideally for efficiency you should still keep the 64MB of cache on top of the CPU cache, but by having this 256MB of cache on the IO die you're reducing the needs to go to system memory, reducing latency, and reducing power consumption.
Just look at how efficient the 5800X3D and 7800X3D are, better performance than their non3D counterparts, while using significantly less power.
Sorry if i'm a bit rambly, its late and i have been up late for the past 4 days
@@zihechen3111 The Apple M1 does use its cache smartly, but one of the reasons the M1 is so efficient is not because it has a huge cache, but because it has the power of a small dGPU, and instead of a seperate package+RAM for the CPU, and GPU, they both share the same pool of RAM and are on the same die. this means they dont have to pass through the motherboard to talk to each other, they technically dont even need to pass through the package if designed right, it could all go through silicon.
The AMD 2400G, 3400G, 4750G, 5700G, 6800U and upcoming 7840U/Z1Extreme are also designed in this way(apple was not first at this, AMD has been doing APUs for years as most consoles are built on AMD APUs)
The 5700G is crazy efficient, with the right RAM, you can get similar performance to a 5800X plus a GTX 1050, with the whole system using less power than the 5800X by itself, what really held the 5700G back was the vega architecture used in the GPU, which was basically 4 years old at the time the 5700G launched, yes you could close those 8 vega cores fast puwshing the 5700G to around 80w, but just cant make up for the old architecture.
For reference, the steamdeck APU uses just 20w PPT, has the same number of GPU compute units as the 5700G, but offers better GPU performance than the 5700G (at 60w) thanks to the use of RDNA2
They're even both on the same process node, so it cant be argued that its only faster because one is on 7nm, and the other is 4nm
The bernie sanders insert had me rolling. That was hilarious. Awesome content! Thank you
Hvae u tried use curve optimezer as an addition? Btw my chip is boosting to 4860 on stock but 82C
If my 12700K has a constant 8-10°C delta using an AIO, would it benefit from lapping the IHS in this area? Diff paste, repaste, contact frame, and still there consistently from idle to heavy load. Not causing any issues, just bothers my OCD 😅
He fucked around....and found out 🤣
Thanks again to the supporters of an actual hardware enthusiast
no way you bought a second CPU, what a boss
I mean $450 isn't hard to scrounge up
people just return them as not working lol
Commenting for the algorithm to help you financially for the cost of this video
cant wait for next bench video!
thanks for the test and to the supporters. maybe try again only with thermal paste and low pressure.
Sad to see a fallen soldier after a delid
Competing takes some resources, but it's everything
I wonder is Msi Kombo strike is a thing for this cpu like it is for the 5800X3D. It doesn’t really add much performance but it does lower temperatures and power consumption.
Its not 1 ccd turned off, its 1 ccd completely missing from the silicon.
Derbauer found that some in the previous gens had a 2nd ccd that was nuked. But physically there sometimes
It's no great loss, it would have been fried in the next 2 months anyway 😢
Amd and Intel should sell enthusiast cpus with direct die liquid cooling on their top skews.
The problem with dat is Thas alot of not experienced person are gonna still buy it and end up crackling the die etc etc and start bunch rma etc to deal with it
@@HosakaBlood I was thinking that the direct die heat spreader was already attached. No need to remove it and crack the die.
@@BackToTheStart47 You can't have both a heat-spreader, and be direct die simultaneously. The whole point of direct die is that there is no heat-spreader.
@@Bayonet1809 What I am suggesting is that the direct die is already installed from Amd or Intel. No need to remove the IHS.
Man, mounting pressure scares the hell out of me. EK brought out a little torque wrench to avoid that exact problem.
But getting the 2nd CPU? Boss move 👌
Thank you for your honesty the 7800x3d is a really good gaming cpu and not for overclocking. Its already running on limit and i wouldnt recommend anyone to touch the settings. But slight undervolting could help for better thermals and powersavings.
7800x3d is overclocked to 5.4Ghz already two weeks ago and its boost up to 5.6GHz, all without delid. ua-cam.com/video/90UBUq1mLGY/v-deo.html
You could use PBO and negative CO offset to gain performance if their is thermal headroom with undervolting and jsut let the chip keep boosting til it hits the limit
You could also wait until it burns itself instead of deliding it
6:05 - 6:08 "nothing seems fine" little foreshadowing
Nice delid!!! Good to see his tool works
Seems like X3D Cpu's are constrained by their voltage and design, X Cpu's on the other hand seem to scale very well with anything you throw at it.
it's a gaming cpu for a reason, sadly amd don't have universal cpus for gaming and production
yep, you are completely right. The voltages are very very tightly controlled, the most (and easiest) gains can be from curve negative voltage offset settings.
Momma raised no quitter. I have the same CPU and I was crying at what you did mate.
Maybe check with the supercool guy and see if he has any plans for his "IHS replacement" style direct die blocks? It has been a long time since I've seen anything but the 13th gen block in stock on his site but these AMD chips are brand new, maybe he has something in the works.
Try undervolt the curve optimizer on all cores to negative 20(mV), i found out my cpu can handle negative 30 and more but it is not as good and have lower skore on cinebench, by benchmarking i found out negative 25 is a sweet spot for me, gained about 100Mhz on all cores under stress, lower voltages and with the same temperature on AIO water cooler, approximately i gained about 1000 skore on Cinebench R23. But ! i have SK-Hynix 6000Mhz Ram from Gskill 2 sticks, BCLK/ inifinty fabrik set to 2033Mhz, UCLK/MCLK to 1:1 gear ratio and custom safe timing from Buildzoid for those RAMs. My system is working really well i dont do any stuff like deliding or grinding the IHS and because X3D CPUs were not build for OC you have few options to gain better performace. PS. this video is 4 months old so dont know if you do this but update your BIOS.
what about the issue on asus mobos burning the socket ??
Pretty soon we’re gonna just have to start cooling both sides of the chips 🤣
_back side power delivery has entered the chat_
You can get pretty much the same with a negative curve optimizer if your CPU can hit negative 30 or higher. I was hitting 4.8 in cinebemch on a 360 aio with no delid and temps around 75c. Not sure what the bclk is doing to temps, mine's stock though.
I got a similar outcome to you. -30 seems to be doable for most of these CPU’s
Damn, went for round 2, awesome! Liking and subscribing!
14:07 why your Bus clock is at 121.5 MHz but multiplier at 42? My Ryzen is always at 99.8 MHz. Is something wrong with my CPU he not reach the 100?
One again asking for your -> cuts to commercial
Impeccable timing Jufes 😂
Gee that runs hot, I'm lucky to hit 56 degrees maximum with my 13th gen 13600k fully loaded at 5.1ghz. Cheers
thank you for your service man, fafo but never give up
how did u overlock it?
you are using gpu loads to compare cpu stuffs?
Bro, that was hard to watch. I'm honestly shocked you didn't cause more damage to that silicon. Just so many WTF decisions were made...
what are your PC specs
Jufes effed around, & found out.
Honestly, whats the point of other review channels existing, when jufes exists
So when are you going to show the temps from the de lid? because what you did isn't showing direct die performance.
plus swapping cpu's and not doing a re test of programs and showing differences doesn't work. Your running a asus motherboard show the SP rating of the chip so we know how good the silicon of the cpu is. that could account for differences in voltage/temps/boost clock
All in all, If you ask you me, anything less than 10% is margin of error and I wouldn't even worry about it. The best thing to do is leave it stock or undervolt and power limit or use eco mode (If you can). All this work for 2% is definitely not worth it all.
5:09 perfect de lid 14:58 what software is this?
Hwinfo
Wow got a second cpu crazy.
I'm stuck with my 9900k @ 5.0ghz and 3080ti, warzone is terrible at 1080p. 130fps avg sometimes worse (comp. settings) no streaming, G skill neo 16gb at 3600mhz. Idk if getting 7800x3d will help, never had an AMD PC before but I do OC
Appreciate the video. Helped me make my decision on de-lidding. Thats gonna be a hard pass for me.😂
Why do u use r20 instead of r24 what’s the difference
i've broke my die because too much pressure. way back when I bought my first amd thunderbird
in @13:30 ...there is no point in comparing two different CPUs and then mention that delidding improved. Each CPU has different clock and temperature!
RIP 3D cpu.
9:53 OMG NOICE!
My 7700x is typically 5340 all cores, and up to 5680-5720 single core, with curve optimised tuned...
You don't even have a 7800x don't lie please
@@nathancachia1419 ha, you are 100% right it was a typo, I have changed it to -7700x. Thanks
Nice :)
curve optimizer way to go with these chips
Aaaand thats wy you do it by hand so you can feel RESISTANCE!
did you not get the heat gun out? the only reason i am getting a 7950x3d is because with $200 more you get the full package
First of all at the end even with delided LM and you still thermal throttled feels like you had a bad contact on your cooling since I seen people with air coolers not even coming close to thermal throttle and second would been nice to see if you went OC/PBO2 with curve optimization and see the differ
Thank you, this is awesome. shoutout to all the supporters.
The Larry Enticer meme 😸👌
Damn that thing was fragile...
Great work
I live in a upstairs apartment i know what its like to have heat coming up to my place in the summer time from the apartment below.
I think comparing old cpu to new CPU is probably not the best as each CPU has different marginal requirements(I.E. sligtly higher or lover Vcore), regardless thanks for doing this great content.
I feel like amd cpu's aren't enthusiast chips. i remember back in the day testing out my old 2700x and it would never oc. i could either lock in at a lower speed all core or just let pbo do its thing. sweet channel, passed the vibe check.
Liquid metal will oxidize like crazy on naked copper ihs. I made this mistake on my old 4790k, nh-d15 was literally soldered to cpu. I killed board when i tried to separate them.
Great video! I enjoyed it.
Next time use dental floss to cut the glue. Get a clothes iron max heat, apply cheap thermal paste on 7800X3D. Place processor on iron, let it sit for several minutes. Take some tongues to separate the IHS. The thermal dynamics will let the IHS to stick to the iron.
Imagine a 7740G3D
Sure, only 48MB of cache instead of 96MB
But its monolithic 4nm, instead of chiplet 5+6nm, meaning there is far less latency to RAM and the RAM can run at much faster speeds thanks to the 4nm IMC
Would i like them to make 32MB non3D versions of their APUs? Yes
Do i think they will? No, they need to do some sort of product segmentation, there has to be a reason to buy the higher margin CPUs over the lower margin APUs
Balls
Maybe vcache will cause some kind of water cooled socket mod someday.
Please consider please change cooling, it will unlock increasing performance. You can diy it easily out of a window air conditioner
rip to the first cpu someone send this man 400 bones lol
bro. I get 7350 points in r20 without delid (optimized w10, 96 tasks) and 4.95ghz boost... I am still tempted to delid but with proper measurements to not crack one of my dies
Wowza, those chips are very sensitive. Guess multi-die is hard af to get a proper mount with. But kudos!
Try a unity game like tarkov or VRchat for benchmarking. Unity is a very memory sensitive game engine. Otherwise, would love to see some MMOs as those are also memory sensitive. That's where I saw a 5800x3d no joke double a 5950x in fps during a raid. Or some sim/factory games. My favorite idle game has been a factory builder called shapez the past week.
Yeah, direct pressure to 4-5nm delicate sand structure. No wonder they break.
Thanks for the content.
7:35 Why do you have that much spread of liquid metal ??
and why do you only have 1x 8pin connected with that cpu ??
this CPU does not need 2 connectors, it never pulls above 90W. One connector is good for 300W. Why would you need 2 connectors for 600W when you only consume 90W? Do you know numbers? 90 is much smaller than 300.
im pretty sure this will be me this weekend when i try it on my 7950x.
Did it work
@@smoofwah3552 went smooth as butter.
Buy this distance frame from the 8auer as well. and you have no problems. Peace
Some reviewer got up to negative 35, but mine is unstable at negative 30. I am pushing 6400 on the dual rank ram with semi tightened timings,hitting 58.2 ns latency. So I guess my IMC is good at least.
How? The setting maxes out at - 30 im BIOS? Doesn't sound like math.
@@djchotus1 I dunno, that's what the dude said... 35. I never tried over 30 cause 30 was unstable so I went back up to 25.
depends on what u consider stable? prime95 small fft with avx workload on? ye -20 CO is max on good samples. Just gamestable good cpus can make -35 CO.
at an allcore basis. u can push it further on an per core basis.
@@dwight2310 what would be the VID in full load prime95 small fft with avx and -30 CO?
I'm asking because i set -30 CO and VID goes up to 1.1V....doesn't seem right or doesn't seem like the CO is working
Dead 7800x3d is a common thing right now with or without a delid lol
The 7k direct frame is not made for 7800x3d
Interesting video, like!
Great video :)
"It's a pretty cheap mod..." 😂 All you have to do is to buy two 7800X3D's and boom baddading your CPU is running 7 degrees cooler.
Yeah. Or you can use better paste and get similar gains in temp.
@@djchotus1"You can use a better paste and get similar gains in temp". Please, give us some of the stuff you're smoking. lmao
Even THE BEST paste would give you maybe at best 1-2C improvement. Also, doing direct die cooling on 7950x goes in up to 20C, depending on the setup you use.
Wunderbar!
I still think the vice method is better combined with a block of wood and a hammer.
The temps are high, especially in SOTTR. The effective clocks were dropping quite a bit also. With custom water cooling I’d be shocked. I’d be interested to see how much Curve Optimiser brought those down. My 13900ks stock was crazy high, but with a simple undervolt it’s very rarely hitting 60c in gaming, and that’s with an AIO without delid etc.
Yeah the Intel chips come crazy overvolted from the factory but they can be power limited and tuned to a great level where you can get great performance and reduce the heat and power consumption Exponentially.
@@NBWDOUGHBOY It's the motherboard, not the cpu.
Wich chipset driver do you recomend for the 7800x3d Mate ? If i Look at the driver date at the device Manager it says like its from 2009 ?
Latest. Always the latest.
@@djchotus1 i downloaded it from the amd site, but when i Look at the device Manager it says from 2009
Here is one like to pay that thing
loved it.
im running 5ghz on a non liquid metal 7800x3d with a 240mm aio
Thank you for saving my 7800X3D i was thinking about doing this, but ya na I'm good.