I shot every week for years on irons, about 10,000 rounds. I switched to red dots a few years ago and wish I’d shot all that ammo on dots. I think it’s best to learn on dots first, then spend a little time learning irons. Kind of like shooting strong hand, then do some training weak hand.
New pistol shooters I tend to teach with red dot. Take out as many variabilities as possibly. Might as well let them focus on trigger press, follow through, weapons manipulations ect.
just got my first pistol and specifically got an EPS carry due to how much simpler it makes everything else. first trip out I did a heck of a lot better with it compared to other pistols i've shot before with iron sights, especially when going from 7yards to 20yards.
As one's eyes age, "iron" sights become more and more problematic. I learned on irons, but two of my four current EDCs have red dots; the other two are for increased invisibility.
I recently switched back to irons from rds for edc pistols. Why? After several years of using dots, I just got tired of dealing w/batteries, brightness settings, fogging glass, re-zeroing, new holsters, etc. I just prefer a simpler, no frills approach for an edc gun. And XS Big Dot sights really closed the gap (for me) w/threat focused irons shooting. YMMV, but just get out there & train before making a decision like this for your needs. 👍👍
I couldn’t agree more. I tried a good quality red dot (at some expense, mind you) for long enough to learn how to use it and ultimately switched back to irons for the exact reasons you stated. I’m much happier with a simple, basic setup.
I like the better view with an optic and I practice 20-30 yard small target shooting so I lean towards a dot. Never have fogging issues, in and out of ac multiple times per day. Had to rezero my optic once in several yrs. Change the battery once a year no biggie I don’t need to rezero on my module. I did have my brightness go down on an optic once also. All my holsters and most holster know days are optic ready. But I can see want max simplicity. Out in the country it’s nice to make good hits on varmints at more distance.
Good video content. I also agree with the open carry topic. It makes non gun people nervous and lets criminal know who has a gun. I've been behind open carry people and noticed that if I was a criminal I could just walk up from behind and take it. Concealed carry keeps them guessing and gives the person carrying a possible edge. PS. I have a Staccato CS with 3,500 rounds though it with no malfunctions. Shoots perfect.
I think learning to use a gun is like learning to drive. You should learn to drive a manual and an automatic transmission, because you never know when you will have to drive a stick shift. For guns, there is WAY more guns out there with just iron sights, than there are red dots, so I have always taught with irons, to instill the basics. (I do use a suppressed .22 also though, like you plan to do) Red dots are not for everyone, and if you get one, it should be a decent one. (likely in that $275 and up category) - Like most tasks, I think everyone is capable of learning any system if they want to, and if they apply enough time and money towards it. - I always figured if a person learned on a dot, but then it went down, they still have to be able to shoot with the irons, and if that is what they learned on, then it would be like riding a bike for them. Good video.
@@dmoose7066 Some folks have a super hard time adapting to "finding the dot". Especially if there dot is a very small one, and the dot is cheaper. I had an APX-A1 that shipped with a really cheap dot. (The gun and dot cost under $400) - The gun was fine, but the dot was very tiny, and was very hard to acquire. A person would have had to spend many hours training to get used to that setup. Once they had the basics trained through, they would no doubt need to spend more time and ammo money to actually practice recovering and finding the dot again after recoil. - I think a 3moa is the smallest I would ever suggest to anyone, but in reality, for a carry gun, I think the larger 5moa is much easier to get on center-mass target. (All just my opinion though - I am sure many will not agree.)
My problem with red dots on pistols for concealment is the added size where you least want it. The height of the gun. I bought a Glock 48 MOS that was used from a total gear snob, he's got the skills to take that position. It came with a RMRcc, surefire xsc, trijicon night sights, a lasermax guide rod, and several 15 and 20rd shield mags. I had seen a Glock 48 in the store and that thin profile is a big plus. I was carrying a Glock 23 Gen 2. When i got the 48 it was no longer concealable with all that stuff on it. Also had a mag well. This was also my first red dot. Heres a tip for you folks getting a pistol red dot for the first time. Dont get that one. Small window. I didnt think that would matter since its not a scope. But it does. Tried a SRO on a friend's pistol and i couldnt not find that dot. RMRcc I was having the same problems all those used to irons have with a pistol red at first, only worse. Also my shield mags are nothing but problems. Which really kills the appeal of a Glock 48 when you find it necessary to carry a high capacity pistol for protection. I live in Albuquerque NM. The criminals here have neen on more than one ocassion well armed and even know some shit and the chances of having to use your gun against one of them is the same as getting into a car wreck. Ideally it would be the same as getting into a plane crash. But its not. So my days of carrying a single stack or 5 shot anything are over. Unfortunately I sold my Glock 23 to my ex wifes brother before getting the 48. So i had to carry my Beretta M9A1 for a few days. Which incidentally is more concealable than that 48 with all that stuff on it. Overall that 48 has been a dissapointing adventure. I traded the xsc light and the RMRcc for a Aimpoint T2 for my AR straight across, pulled off the magwell as it also prints. The comes the lasermax guide rod. Have one on my Beretta. Good shit. But on the glock the takedown levers are the switches and they stick out the most on the gun. So it was always coming on in the holster pretty much any other time you didnt mean to activate it. On the beretta the slide is wider than the frame so thats not an issue. On top of all this the trijicon sights are the ones where they hang off the back of the slide and dig into you when carrying. So those are useless to. So my points are to get a red dot that isnt that small at first. Get a quality red dot. I had several people that wanted that RMRcc. Wasnt but a few days that the trade I was shooting for popped up. If its a cheap red dot nobody will want it if you also dont it. If you keep it you want the good one. Especilaly if you spend all thay money on ammo getting good with it. The Surefire XSC is a poor design compared to the Streamlight TLR7 sub. Switches suck, the spare rechargable batteries are expensive and you only get one with the light. Also its not bright. At all. Im a Surefire fan boy if nothing else, but that light sucks. Tlr7 sub with surefire rechargeable 123 batteries is what you want. Streamlight says to not use those. They also sell batteries. Been using them in tlr7a's for a few years now. Ive hit the limit on how many times they can take a charge but no problems with the light. So im using 10rd mags anf tritium sights i would replace ASAGDMFP if i ever carried that gun again. I got a Walther P99AS. Id get rid of the 48 but my daughter is almost old enough to turn over guns ive gotten for her over the years and she wants it. The glock 48 is a good shooter though. Better than that 23 or a 26, Glock's other 10rd 9mm. But not as good as the 19. I've had 3 19's over the years and i would get another one if a good deal shows up. Probably a 49 though. I would not get another 48. I really wanted to bitch about my Glock 48 experience. So thanks for listening.
The only bad part about dots is it can be harder to find, but much more accurate. Tritium is very easy to find at night but the bad part is it can be inaccurate because sometimes the front dot is placed higher or lower than the actual proper iron sight picture you would see in daytime
I have a Rossi RB22 compact, small frame 22lr bolt action rifle SDd for the kids (9, 5, &3), with a red dot, the 5 & 3yo boys are already hooked on guns, thanks to that and the 22 converted AR. once they learn how to look through a scope we'll be in hunting business!
@@alaefarmestatesllc I was raised on a Marlin model 60, so If I get another 22 it's gonna be a Marlin 795SS, I believe the mags are compatible with those Rossi uses.
Red dots are so much more faster, for me. I can also shoot with both eyes open with a red dot. I can't pick up irons with both eyes fast. And red dots make accuracy a breeze. 9mm>380acp and the Shield Plus PC is better then any p365 or Glock 43 models. Just a fact
I grew up on iron sights. Having reached a certain age, the red dot makes shooting easier for me. I still shoot irons but due to deteriorating eyesight I have a hard time with the rear sight focus.
@Scarywoody I'll have to try that what I been doing is focus on the target and bring the gun up, I can do it with my glock 47 but with my shield plus I lose the dot quick.
Shot a match last week and the results were interesting. Dude with a PSA Dagger ranked 4th out of 20 vs high end CZ’s, Prodigy’s, Caniks etc. And the only gun that jammed during the 3 stages totaling about 50 rounds was ….. a Stacatto P. He jammed once on the first stage, then twice on the third. Shows that reliability is most important whether competing or self defense and that buying a “better gun” doesn’t make you a better shooter. Dude with the Dagger set a record on the second stage which was 2 2 2 on 3 targets, reload, 2 2 2 on 3 targets, move and shoot 6 on the 4th target.
Get co-witness irons with a red dot, learn trigger control and other fundamentals while using the simpler sighting system, then turn the dot off and work on using the irons. This is going to be the sight picture if you ever need them anyway, may as well make the learning curve less steep. I have two Staccatos, a P and now a C. The P is my competition pistol and was my sometimes winter carry, it’s completely reliable. The C is now going to be my carry pistol, I put its first 500 rounds through it yesterday with both cheap range ammo and a couple boxes of my preferred carry ammo, it was flawless. It’s going in my holster the next time I leave the house and from there on out.
You should not co-witness your red dot to your iron sights. Why would you slave your red dot to iron sights that barely come up to the bottom of the optic window? Red dot sights should be zeroed independently of your irons.
@@weaponeer8582 did I say to slave them? No. I simply meant have a set of iron sights that can be used through the optic window if the battery dies or the optic fails electrically.
@@milspecmike8440 yes, you did. Co-witnessing is slaving them to the red dot. Yes, irons would ideally be somewhat visible but truly not necessary unless maybe if you have an SRO. With any square windowed optic you should be able to make upper body torso shots at 15-20 yards even if the dot goes down without iron sights.
@@weaponeer8582agree to disagree then, I was generalizing the term used to describe sights that can be used through the optic. Run without iron sights if you want, I DGAS, yes, you can point shoot if you want, at that point why bother with any optic (that’s rhetorical, BTW)? I prefer to have a backup, I went on a trip last year and found out my 507k killed off it’s battery as the dot went out after we left despite replacing the battery 2 weeks prior, (Holosun warranty sucks to use) luckily I had irons visible through the window so I wasn’t worried that I couldn’t find a battery in that area to replace it with. I’ll take irons over an empty window any day. Bonus for new shooters, they can practice with both sighting systems on the same pistol, which is the point you seem to have missed by starting some semantic argument.
I think red dots are great, and if you can afford it, go for it. You should still have cowitnessing iron sights and be proficient at using them. Electrical devices fail.
Even with astigmatism it's still easier than irons. Unless your astigmatism so bad that you get blinded by traffic lights and crosswalk lights, city skylines.
@jason200912 I replaced my red dots with green ones so much better. My astigmatism isn't super bad, but it made a big difference for me. I did have someone tell me good luck seeing a green dot in the woods or dense foliage. All I could say is my brother in christ we aren't shooting on the planet Pandora. This nuclear green dots still gonna show up.
I am very interested in the 'bare bones begginer gun build' I think it's a fantastic idea for new shooters, and a few other demographics as well I'm picturing a TX 22 compact, although I have a cp33 I could slap a can on Sort of a giant gun for that purpose though
Dots are easy im new to dots but there is variables like dead batteries and broke optics thatd need to be in effect so irons should be taught first for those encounters
I say dots first so they can fix up their bad trigger work because the dot will jump if they pull it poorly...like a laser guide. Irons later when their finger and grip is nice and steady.
Prolix CLP!!!! You never see rust on any gun again even your carry. I keep hearing about rusting on the 365 series. Two year nearly carried everyday, no rust, zero! Frog lube (not good for really cold weather) or Prolix for dry dusty and wet weather or next to skin. Prolix is a dry lube not wet oil based.
Three comments: (1) You should teach iron sights first for two reasons. it is more difficult but it is an essental skill because if your dot fails you have to know yow to use irons. Mr. Murphy say they will fail at the worst posdible time. If you are worried about your student's confidence adjust the range so your student can reliably hit the target. (2) What is a lady's gun? Here are three examples from my past. College girlfriend was 6'2". An IC co-worker who was 5'9". I think when she trained the Agency was still using the Browning Hi Power as standard issue. A friend who was a part time police officer in her younger days coming in at an even 6'. Each of these wonen could easily handle anything a man can carry. (3l You can always point to cases where an open carrier gets attacked because of his gun but you know how many concealed carriers get attacked? Everyone carrying concealed who has a DGU. If someone comes after you despite seeing a gun is someone who would come after you anyway. If you are going to open carry outside the woods or rural area just use a Level 3 retention holster. It is my experience that at least 75% of the public would not notice a 1911 strapped to your hip. I hear a lot about printing but unless it is blatant nobody notices. You only think it is an issue because you know it's there.
"If someone comes after you despite seeing a gun is someone who would come after you anyway." Respectfully, this is false. It's not hard to come across surveillance videos of both male and female open carriers being targeted solely because of the presence of their firearm. They were chosen out of a group of people in the immediate area and were targeted for the gun on their hip. I would compare it to people with cars being targeted for car jacking. In terms of teaching irons first, I still don't see this as a concrete reason for requiring shooters to start one the objectively more challenging sighting system. Sure, if they're going to immediately start carrying a gun we are going to have to give them a crash course, but when it comes to simply introducing beginners to shooting in general I think it makes the most sense to make that as easy and painless as possible.
@tessahbooth You miss the point entirely. Yes, there are surveillance videos that show this but that says nothing about the frequency that this happens. We don't know how often a person open carrying deters an attack. There are also surveillance videos showing concealed carriers and unarmed people being attacked. What we do know is that carry concealed deters no one. I am not advocating open carry. I only pointing the "you will be attacked" fallacy. Furthermore, anyone who sees a 5' tall women with a gun and goes after her even though she armed will see you as easy mark even if you unarmed or carrying concealed.
@@johnshepherd9676 I understand where you're coming from. However, there are risks inherent to open carry that are not present when concealed carrying. Being targeted solely because of the presence of the gun is likely the least common of those risks. Although open carry may be a deterrent for some, in my opinion that doesn't outweigh the amount of additional eyes drawn to the open carrier and the not so unlikely Karen calling the police because "there is a man with a gun at Costco." For clarity purposes, I'm not telling others what they should or should not do, but rather providing the basis for which I've formed my personal opinions on the practice.
@tessahbooth There are inherent risks in any method of carry. One's objective is to avoid using the gun. If you are aware of your surroundings and understand the risk you dramatically reduce your chances of having to defend yourself with your gun.
Shot with irons for 25 years, I bought a Holosun HS507c for my macro and shot with it for maybe a year and ended up taking it off. It simply didnt make me any better. My opinion everyone needs to train on irons first before using a red dot on a pistol. Beretta 1301 is best shotgun on the market if you dont want to drop 2k on a Benelli!
Part of the problem with iron sights is that most manufacturers no longer design handguns for natural "pointability". The grip angles and ergonomics suck on a lot of pistols.
I have 3 staccatos and zero issues. I have probably close to 10k through my P, the C2 and CS have a few thousand each through them. I would be interested to hear what issues your friend had
Meh, not using your sights is a thing, but it's not enough of a thing to say that "You're not going to use either". There are plenty of examples of CCW's having to use their sights.
My theory is, a new shooter can quickly become an intermediate with a red dot, whereas it takes tons of practice time to become sufficient using iron sights.. This idea comes from seeing my wife, her brother and father, all people who never shot a gun before, coming to the range and consistently putting shots on target accurately at a fast rate.. A red dot really makes a beginner an accurate shooter off the bat
Using modern logic all red dot users should have BUIS on their gun. If your red dot fails you need to understand how to use your BUIS, assuming you can still see through your optic. When you buy your pistol it automatically comes with iron sights. Why wouldn't you train with your irons before you mount your first red dot? Irons are not hard to train with at Pistol distances, no harder than red dots; it's quite fun actually and you might find you like them more in the long run. What I do believe is that red dots are the more perishable skill. If you are not willing to dry fire and practice your draws regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure. This is based on my experience only, but I find I'm slower with a red dot shooting cold if I haven't trained in awhile. I would challenge anyone the next time they go to the range: pick a qual standard and shoot it without any dry fire or warm up the next time you go. It's informative and will let you know if you are training appropriately.
There is a very good reason sig keeps coming out with more models and Glock really doesn't very often. Just do a little deep research on it and you will see all the sig failures.
*Glocks suck* MUCH safer holstering a DA hammer fired pistol or a striker fired pistol with a manual safety. LOVE shooting Glocks, but HATE holstering them even with a SCD which is nowhere near as good as the hammer on a DA pistol. For regular carry I prefer the S&W 649 which has a hammer spur my thumb can rest on while holstering it. If I feel a need to carry a service pistol it will ALWAYS be a DA pistol as I want a long, heavy trigger pull for the first shot to help prevent an AD or ND in a high stress situation.
I would say people should learn both irons,and a red dot,or green dot.I feel you should know how to shoot with both,but that is just me.I mean can most people afford to put an optic on all there guns,and a decent one at that???I don’t think so,because a decent one cost half the price of a gun,and a really good one could be more 😂😂😂😂😂
Irons for me! That's how I've been trained. I do have an EOTech on a Rock River Government model, but it's broken (go figure ... older 512). Always train with irons first, then if you want ADD an optic. Never remove iron sights from any firearm platform as optics can easily fail.
Essentially arguing to learn how to drive a Model T before a toyota Camry. I understand it’s important to learn irons but dots are objectively superior in every aspect except…they have batteries?
@@CertifiedBullpupHater I get it, but batteries die, glass breaks and electronics fail. Generally, iron sights are stronger. Just my opinion. Not bashing optics.
@@5.56Media irons fall off, break, etc. they are much slower to learn. Absolutly no reason to start on irons in 2024 other then price. The only people I have found who think irons are better then red dots, can't take their criticism dots give you for having poor presentation skills. You get infantly more information every time you present your pistol with a red dot then irons will ever give you.
@@CertifiedBullpupHater meh, when your looking at the lifetime of batteries in red dots and it's pretty much measured in years, I think it's almost a moot point.
Humble people… like myself😂😂 have no problems with Staccato reliability, I’ve had it since Feb & 8krds no problem s with the gun. Crap talkers and Staccatos= reliability problems 😂😂😂
Electronic optics is a modern advanced development to improve firearms accuracy, compared to the old iron sights system. Particularly, if you have eye problems. A "red dot" makes shooting easier. Iron sights are falling into a thing of the past.
There is no more argument to irons vs dots with today’s dot tech. There is no legit argument for irons anymore. Period… Those who don’t shoot much are the ones that typically try to justify irons.. I dropped my Glocks for sigs then eventually dropped the sigs for Stsccato.. EDC went from 43x to p365 to 2024 CS..
1) Yes you should learn fundamentals with irons. Ideally you would have a red dot that at least 1/3 co-witness. Also, you focus on the target with irons as well. 2) The striker control plate adds additional unreliability to an almost perfect weapons systems (Glock). 3) Shotguns are no bueno for home defense, they are an okay breaching tool.
1. To shoot irons accurately you should be front sight focused, not target. 3. Home defence is highly situational, but a shotgun with the right load can be a great option. If 9 rounds of 00 buck can't a home invader problem then I'm not sure what will. But I also live alone and am highly unlikely to hit a neighbors house.
I disagree with your last comment but that is ok that is an opinion. Here is why we differ a shot gun with double 00 buck shot generally has 9 thirty two cal. projectiles with one round fired. That said with out an extended magazine one holds say 4 plus 1 in the chamber that is 45 32 cal. down range very impressive in my opinion. For home defense I say it is the perfect choice with a 20 inch barrel.
@@AussieInCA11 Disagree on point one, you do you. Shotguns are loud, low round count, not precise. It is why we use them to breach and to clear. I suppose it is better then nothing.
@@marcdavis1728 my shotgun has one on the lifter, 8 in the tube and 10 on the gun in tearaway side saddles. I agree, if that can't convince people they want to leave I've got biiiiiig problems. "Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people and shotguns take a big chunk of them and throw it on the floor" - Clint Smith
@@marcdavis1728 I will give you a homework assignment. Look on youtube for US Military clearing buildings in some place like Iraq and tell me about all the shotguns they use and how they use them.
Tessa- It is unfortunate you're advising skipping irons. Every shooter should learn the basics, period. Tech can fail. Learn irons or even your thumbs as rear sites.
Red dots, just one more thing to go wrong with your gun when you need it. Iron sights have worked just fine for hundreds of years, man-up and learn iron sights, geez. And no, red dots aren’t faster than irons if you know how to shoot. I guess everyone sucked at shooting prior to 2015.🤔🙄👎
@@Kenn1969 I agree, irons have worked "just fine", but I'm no expert myself. Sure, I have a UA-cam channel, but I don't have a Harley Davidson, so we're even haha.
When you got sucked into the sig grift I unsubscribed. The algorithm brought this up again. Now I block. Decisions have consequences and being bought by the slime that runs sig is enough.
*Shotgun fan* Love shotguns for home defense loaded with less-lethal bean bag rounds, backed up by a handgun. As these low power rounds won't cycle a semi-auto, a pump action is best, though in some nations they may be banned, in which case a double-barrel shotgun like the Stoeger Coach Gun is best (the 'Double Defense' version has rails for an RDS and white light/laser). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round
I shot every week for years on irons, about 10,000 rounds.
I switched to red dots a few years ago and wish I’d shot all that ammo on dots.
I think it’s best to learn on dots first, then spend a little time learning irons. Kind of like shooting strong hand, then do some training weak hand.
I will say it is very refreshing to hear somebody that is really honest. Keep up the good videos.
New pistol shooters I tend to teach with red dot. Take out as many variabilities as possibly. Might as well let them focus on trigger press, follow through, weapons manipulations ect.
just got my first pistol and specifically got an EPS carry due to how much simpler it makes everything else. first trip out I did a heck of a lot better with it compared to other pistols i've shot before with iron sights, especially when going from 7yards to 20yards.
As one's eyes age, "iron" sights become more and more problematic. I learned on irons, but two of my four current EDCs have red dots; the other two are for increased invisibility.
WIsh my dad understood this. He still won't shoot anything but irons.
Sig has to fix these rust issues that so many people are having, very disappointing considering how much sigs cost.
I recently switched back to irons from rds for edc pistols. Why? After several years of using dots, I just got tired of dealing w/batteries, brightness settings, fogging glass, re-zeroing, new holsters, etc. I just prefer a simpler, no frills approach for an edc gun. And XS Big Dot sights really closed the gap (for me) w/threat focused irons shooting. YMMV, but just get out there & train before making a decision like this for your needs. 👍👍
I couldn’t agree more. I tried a good quality red dot (at some expense, mind you) for long enough to learn how to use it and ultimately switched back to irons for the exact reasons you stated. I’m much happier with a simple, basic setup.
@@Person_of_Interest Thank you! I'm happy it worked out for you as well.
I like the better view with an optic and I practice 20-30 yard small target shooting so I lean towards a dot. Never have fogging issues, in and out of ac multiple times per day. Had to rezero my optic once in several yrs. Change the battery once a year no biggie I don’t need to rezero on my module. I did have my brightness go down on an optic once also. All my holsters and most holster know days are optic ready. But I can see want max simplicity. Out in the country it’s nice to make good hits on varmints at more distance.
Puck a better red dot then
Lots of sensible, well-expressed opinions.
Red dots make you better with irons. I said what i said.
Great to hear your thoughts on these. Very insightful. Thank you!
Good video content. I also agree with the open carry topic. It makes non gun people nervous and lets criminal know who has a gun. I've been behind open carry people and noticed that if I was a criminal I could just walk up from behind and take it. Concealed carry keeps them guessing and gives the person carrying a possible edge. PS. I have a Staccato CS with 3,500 rounds though it with no malfunctions. Shoots perfect.
I think learning to use a gun is like learning to drive.
You should learn to drive a manual and an automatic transmission, because you never know when you will have to drive a stick shift.
For guns, there is WAY more guns out there with just iron sights, than there are red dots, so I have always taught with irons, to instill the basics. (I do use a suppressed .22 also though, like you plan to do)
Red dots are not for everyone, and if you get one, it should be a decent one. (likely in that $275 and up category) - Like most tasks, I think everyone is capable of learning any system if they want to, and if they apply enough time and money towards it. - I always figured if a person learned on a dot, but then it went down, they still have to be able to shoot with the irons, and if that is what they learned on, then it would be like riding a bike for them.
Good video.
Why aren't red dots for everyone (other than cost, that is a big factor for many people)?
@@dmoose7066 Some folks have a super hard time adapting to "finding the dot". Especially if there dot is a very small one, and the dot is cheaper. I had an APX-A1 that shipped with a really cheap dot. (The gun and dot cost under $400) - The gun was fine, but the dot was very tiny, and was very hard to acquire. A person would have had to spend many hours training to get used to that setup. Once they had the basics trained through, they would no doubt need to spend more time and ammo money to actually practice recovering and finding the dot again after recoil. - I think a 3moa is the smallest I would ever suggest to anyone, but in reality, for a carry gun, I think the larger 5moa is much easier to get on center-mass target. (All just my opinion though - I am sure many will not agree.)
Love my CS and my 365’s
My problem with red dots on pistols for concealment is the added size where you least want it. The height of the gun. I bought a Glock 48 MOS that was used from a total gear snob, he's got the skills to take that position. It came with a RMRcc, surefire xsc, trijicon night sights, a lasermax guide rod, and several 15 and 20rd shield mags. I had seen a Glock 48 in the store and that thin profile is a big plus. I was carrying a Glock 23 Gen 2. When i got the 48 it was no longer concealable with all that stuff on it. Also had a mag well. This was also my first red dot. Heres a tip for you folks getting a pistol red dot for the first time. Dont get that one. Small window. I didnt think that would matter since its not a scope. But it does. Tried a SRO on a friend's pistol and i couldnt not find that dot. RMRcc I was having the same problems all those used to irons have with a pistol red at first, only worse. Also my shield mags are nothing but problems. Which really kills the appeal of a Glock 48 when you find it necessary to carry a high capacity pistol for protection. I live in Albuquerque NM. The criminals here have neen on more than one ocassion well armed and even know some shit and the chances of having to use your gun against one of them is the same as getting into a car wreck. Ideally it would be the same as getting into a plane crash. But its not. So my days of carrying a single stack or 5 shot anything are over. Unfortunately I sold my Glock 23 to my ex wifes brother before getting the 48. So i had to carry my Beretta M9A1 for a few days. Which incidentally is more concealable than that 48 with all that stuff on it. Overall that 48 has been a dissapointing adventure. I traded the xsc light and the RMRcc for a Aimpoint T2 for my AR straight across, pulled off the magwell as it also prints. The comes the lasermax guide rod. Have one on my Beretta. Good shit. But on the glock the takedown levers are the switches and they stick out the most on the gun. So it was always coming on in the holster pretty much any other time you didnt mean to activate it. On the beretta the slide is wider than the frame so thats not an issue. On top of all this the trijicon sights are the ones where they hang off the back of the slide and dig into you when carrying. So those are useless to. So my points are to get a red dot that isnt that small at first. Get a quality red dot. I had several people that wanted that RMRcc. Wasnt but a few days that the trade I was shooting for popped up. If its a cheap red dot nobody will want it if you also dont it. If you keep it you want the good one. Especilaly if you spend all thay money on ammo getting good with it. The Surefire XSC is a poor design compared to the Streamlight TLR7 sub. Switches suck, the spare rechargable batteries are expensive and you only get one with the light. Also its not bright. At all. Im a Surefire fan boy if nothing else, but that light sucks. Tlr7 sub with surefire rechargeable 123 batteries is what you want. Streamlight says to not use those. They also sell batteries. Been using them in tlr7a's for a few years now. Ive hit the limit on how many times they can take a charge but no problems with the light. So im using 10rd mags anf tritium sights i would replace ASAGDMFP if i ever carried that gun again. I got a Walther P99AS. Id get rid of the 48 but my daughter is almost old enough to turn over guns ive gotten for her over the years and she wants it. The glock 48 is a good shooter though. Better than that 23 or a 26, Glock's other 10rd 9mm. But not as good as the 19. I've had 3 19's over the years and i would get another one if a good deal shows up. Probably a 49 though. I would not get another 48. I really wanted to bitch about my Glock 48 experience. So thanks for listening.
Dot size is much more important than window size.
The only bad part about dots is it can be harder to find, but much more accurate. Tritium is very easy to find at night but the bad part is it can be inaccurate because sometimes the front dot is placed higher or lower than the actual proper iron sight picture you would see in daytime
Great as always, thanks!
I have a Rossi RB22 compact, small frame 22lr bolt action rifle SDd for the kids (9, 5, &3), with a red dot, the 5 & 3yo boys are already hooked on guns, thanks to that and the 22 converted AR.
once they learn how to look through a scope we'll be in hunting business!
Now you must get the obligatory 10/22
@@alaefarmestatesllc I was raised on a Marlin model 60, so If I get another 22 it's gonna be a Marlin 795SS, I believe the mags are compatible with those Rossi uses.
Red dots are so much more faster, for me. I can also shoot with both eyes open with a red dot. I can't pick up irons with both eyes fast. And red dots make accuracy a breeze. 9mm>380acp and the Shield Plus PC is better then any p365 or Glock 43 models. Just a fact
Got to try the new S&W Bodyguard 2.0. It's my new pocket gun backup.
Yeah it looks really interesting!
Lots of good thought food--even for a large/average man! Thanks!!
I grew up on iron sights. Having reached a certain age, the red dot makes shooting easier for me. I still shoot irons but due to deteriorating eyesight I have a hard time with the rear sight focus.
I'm slowly getting better with dots, but on my draw I'm still faster with irons
@@Mr.Bonez2Go Advice I got and seems to work is follow the front dot and bring the optic up. It's a transition but my groups are tighter.
@Scarywoody I'll have to try that what I been doing is focus on the target and bring the gun up, I can do it with my glock 47 but with my shield plus I lose the dot quick.
@@Mr.Bonez2Go It's funny. I shoot at a range on senior day and we all shoot with bifocals with our heads tilted back.
Like your content, really nice to have a woman that doesnt make the center of their content yoga pants montages. Really liked the video thanks.
Shot a match last week and the results were interesting. Dude with a PSA Dagger ranked 4th out of 20 vs high end CZ’s, Prodigy’s, Caniks etc. And the only gun that jammed during the 3 stages totaling about 50 rounds was ….. a Stacatto P. He jammed once on the first stage, then twice on the third.
Shows that reliability is most important whether competing or self defense and that buying a “better gun” doesn’t make you a better shooter. Dude with the Dagger set a record on the second stage which was 2 2 2 on 3 targets, reload, 2 2 2 on 3 targets, move and shoot 6 on the 4th target.
Get co-witness irons with a red dot, learn trigger control and other fundamentals while using the simpler sighting system, then turn the dot off and work on using the irons. This is going to be the sight picture if you ever need them anyway, may as well make the learning curve less steep. I have two Staccatos, a P and now a C. The P is my competition pistol and was my sometimes winter carry, it’s completely reliable. The C is now going to be my carry pistol, I put its first 500 rounds through it yesterday with both cheap range ammo and a couple boxes of my preferred carry ammo, it was flawless. It’s going in my holster the next time I leave the house and from there on out.
You should not co-witness your red dot to your iron sights. Why would you slave your red dot to iron sights that barely come up to the bottom of the optic window? Red dot sights should be zeroed independently of your irons.
@@weaponeer8582 did I say to slave them? No. I simply meant have a set of iron sights that can be used through the optic window if the battery dies or the optic fails electrically.
@@milspecmike8440 yes, you did. Co-witnessing is slaving them to the red dot. Yes, irons would ideally be somewhat visible but truly not necessary unless maybe if you have an SRO. With any square windowed optic you should be able to make upper body torso shots at 15-20 yards even if the dot goes down without iron sights.
@@weaponeer8582agree to disagree then, I was generalizing the term used to describe sights that can be used through the optic. Run without iron sights if you want, I DGAS, yes, you can point shoot if you want, at that point why bother with any optic (that’s rhetorical, BTW)? I prefer to have a backup, I went on a trip last year and found out my 507k killed off it’s battery as the dot went out after we left despite replacing the battery 2 weeks prior, (Holosun warranty sucks to use) luckily I had irons visible through the window so I wasn’t worried that I couldn’t find a battery in that area to replace it with. I’ll take irons over an empty window any day. Bonus for new shooters, they can practice with both sighting systems on the same pistol, which is the point you seem to have missed by starting some semantic argument.
Yeah irons at the bottom of the optic is the way to go so it doesn't
block your sight picture.
I think red dots are great, and if you can afford it, go for it. You should still have cowitnessing iron sights and be proficient at using them. Electrical devices fail.
Good stuff! Thank you.🙏🏽
Thanks for answering my STB question!
As always, thank you for posting and sharing
Another great video. Thanks.
Awesome video!!
🙏
Thanks for watching!
Thousands and thousands of rounds through my CS with absolutely NO failures or issues
All reasonable points, as you said before we're all different in many ways (experience size age etc) keep on going 👍 🎯🔫🇺🇸
I would love to ccw a CS, but I can’t hide the grip! I’ll stick with my cr920
Honestly i think it’s all about the holster, I carry a staccato xc , full size frame with an SRO and surefire x300 light
The exception is shooters with astigmatism. Red dots are essentially useless to me with my crappy vision.
Have you tried a green dot? Worked for me the tearing went away vs the red dot.
Even with astigmatism it's still easier than irons.
Unless your astigmatism so bad that you get blinded by traffic lights and crosswalk lights, city skylines.
@jason200912 I replaced my red dots with green ones so much better. My astigmatism isn't super bad, but it made a big difference for me. I did have someone tell me good luck seeing a green dot in the woods or dense foliage. All I could say is my brother in christ we aren't shooting on the planet Pandora. This nuclear green dots still gonna show up.
I am very interested in the 'bare bones begginer gun build'
I think it's a fantastic idea for new shooters, and a few other demographics as well
I'm picturing a TX 22 compact, although I have a cp33 I could slap a can on
Sort of a giant gun for that purpose though
Dots are easy im new to dots but there is variables like dead batteries and broke optics thatd need to be in effect so irons should be taught first for those encounters
I say dots first so they can fix up their bad trigger work because the dot will jump if they pull it poorly...like a laser guide. Irons later when their finger and grip is nice and steady.
Interesting 🤔
Prolix CLP!!!! You never see rust on any gun again even your carry. I keep hearing about rusting on the 365 series. Two year nearly carried everyday, no rust, zero! Frog lube (not good for really cold weather) or Prolix for dry dusty and wet weather or next to skin. Prolix is a dry lube not wet oil based.
The Striker Control Device doe not work on the Glock 19 Gen5 when you upgrade to a Glock Performance Trigger. I found out the hard way 🤷♂️
Tessa i love the Striker Plate but will not work with my Glock Store Performance trigger. I was bummed.
Three comments:
(1) You should teach iron sights first for two reasons. it is more difficult but it is an essental skill because if your dot fails you have to know yow to use irons. Mr. Murphy say they will fail at the worst posdible time. If you are worried about your student's confidence adjust the range so your student can reliably hit the target.
(2) What is a lady's gun? Here are three examples from my past. College girlfriend was 6'2". An IC co-worker who was 5'9". I think when she trained the Agency was still using the Browning Hi Power as standard issue. A friend who was a part time police officer in her younger days coming in at an even 6'. Each of these wonen could easily handle anything a man can carry.
(3l You can always point to cases where an open carrier gets attacked because of his gun but you know how many concealed carriers get attacked? Everyone carrying concealed who has a DGU. If someone comes after you despite seeing a gun is someone who would come after you anyway. If you are going to open carry outside the woods or rural area just use a Level 3 retention holster. It is my experience that at least 75% of the public would not notice a 1911 strapped to your hip. I hear a lot about printing but unless it is blatant nobody notices. You only think it is an issue because you know it's there.
"If someone comes after you despite seeing a gun is someone who would come after you anyway." Respectfully, this is false. It's not hard to come across surveillance videos of both male and female open carriers being targeted solely because of the presence of their firearm. They were chosen out of a group of people in the immediate area and were targeted for the gun on their hip. I would compare it to people with cars being targeted for car jacking.
In terms of teaching irons first, I still don't see this as a concrete reason for requiring shooters to start one the objectively more challenging sighting system. Sure, if they're going to immediately start carrying a gun we are going to have to give them a crash course, but when it comes to simply introducing beginners to shooting in general I think it makes the most sense to make that as easy and painless as possible.
@tessahbooth You miss the point entirely. Yes, there are surveillance videos that show this but that says nothing about the frequency that this happens. We don't know how often a person open carrying deters an attack. There are also surveillance videos showing concealed carriers and unarmed people being attacked. What we do know is that carry concealed deters no one. I am not advocating open carry. I only pointing the "you will be attacked" fallacy. Furthermore, anyone who sees a 5' tall women with a gun and goes after her even though she armed will see you as easy mark even if you unarmed or carrying concealed.
@@johnshepherd9676 I understand where you're coming from. However, there are risks inherent to open carry that are not present when concealed carrying. Being targeted solely because of the presence of the gun is likely the least common of those risks.
Although open carry may be a deterrent for some, in my opinion that doesn't outweigh the amount of additional eyes drawn to the open carrier and the not so unlikely Karen calling the police because "there is a man with a gun at Costco."
For clarity purposes, I'm not telling others what they should or should not do, but rather providing the basis for which I've formed my personal opinions on the practice.
@tessahbooth There are inherent risks in any method of carry. One's objective is to avoid using the gun. If you are aware of your surroundings and understand the risk you dramatically reduce your chances of having to defend yourself with your gun.
Shot with irons for 25 years, I bought a Holosun HS507c for my macro and shot with it for maybe a year and ended up taking it off. It simply didnt make me any better. My opinion everyone needs to train on irons first before using a red dot on a pistol. Beretta 1301 is best shotgun on the market if you dont want to drop 2k on a Benelli!
Do a paper moa test
Part of the problem with iron sights is that most manufacturers no longer design handguns for natural "pointability". The grip angles and ergonomics suck on a lot of pistols.
I have 3 staccatos and zero issues. I have probably close to 10k through my P, the C2 and CS have a few thousand each through them. I would be interested to hear what issues your friend had
Would love your opinion on the Hunter Constantine carry belt ?!?!
In a self defense shooting, you’re not going to use either. Point shooting is what you'll do.
Meh, not using your sights is a thing, but it's not enough of a thing to say that "You're not going to use either". There are plenty of examples of CCW's having to use their sights.
Have to tried the Constantine carry belt? I’d like to know your opinion on it
My theory is, a new shooter can quickly become an intermediate with a red dot, whereas it takes tons of practice time to become sufficient using iron sights.. This idea comes from seeing my wife, her brother and father, all people who never shot a gun before, coming to the range and consistently putting shots on target accurately at a fast rate.. A red dot really makes a beginner an accurate shooter off the bat
I taught my wife how to shoot with a 1911 because that is what I had. She had tight groups center mass at 10 yards by the end of the first session
@@johnshepherd9676 Shooting a 1911 is like shooting on easy mode. My 1911 is iron-sighted and it's the best shooter I own.
Using modern logic all red dot users should have BUIS on their gun. If your red dot fails you need to understand how to use your BUIS, assuming you can still see through your optic. When you buy your pistol it automatically comes with iron sights. Why wouldn't you train with your irons before you mount your first red dot? Irons are not hard to train with at Pistol distances, no harder than red dots; it's quite fun actually and you might find you like them more in the long run. What I do believe is that red dots are the more perishable skill. If you are not willing to dry fire and practice your draws regularly, you are setting yourself up for failure. This is based on my experience only, but I find I'm slower with a red dot shooting cold if I haven't trained in awhile. I would challenge anyone the next time they go to the range: pick a qual standard and shoot it without any dry fire or warm up the next time you go. It's informative and will let you know if you are training appropriately.
IMO... To truly master the handgun one must master the irons and dot. With that said the dot comes first. Eyes permitting...
There is absolutely no reason to NOT use a striker control device. Idk why they don’t come default on glocks.
Better question would be why they aren't standard on Sigs
There is a very good reason sig keeps coming out with more models and Glock really doesn't very often. Just do a little deep research on it and you will see all the sig failures.
Irons need to be learnt not saying that has to be first.
Red dot vs green dot?
The words bare bones and suppresor and optic dont go together. Bare bones means bare bones.
Bare bones was in reference to the skill of the shooter, not the gun :)
*Glocks suck*
MUCH safer holstering a DA hammer fired pistol or a striker fired pistol with a manual safety. LOVE shooting Glocks, but HATE holstering them even with a SCD which is nowhere near as good as the hammer on a DA pistol. For regular carry I prefer the S&W 649 which has a hammer spur my thumb can rest on while holstering it. If I feel a need to carry a service pistol it will ALWAYS be a DA pistol as I want a long, heavy trigger pull for the first shot to help prevent an AD or ND in a high stress situation.
I would say people should learn both irons,and a red dot,or green dot.I feel you should know how to shoot with both,but that is just me.I mean can most people afford to put an optic on all there guns,and a decent one at that???I don’t think so,because a decent one cost half the price of a gun,and a really good one could be more 😂😂😂😂😂
Irons for me! That's how I've been trained. I do have an EOTech on a Rock River Government model, but it's broken (go figure ... older 512).
Always train with irons first, then if you want ADD an optic. Never remove iron sights from any firearm platform as optics can easily fail.
Why not start with a dot?
Essentially arguing to learn how to drive a Model T before a toyota Camry. I understand it’s important to learn irons but dots are objectively superior in every aspect except…they have batteries?
@@CertifiedBullpupHater I get it, but batteries die, glass breaks and electronics fail. Generally, iron sights are stronger. Just my opinion. Not bashing optics.
@@5.56Media irons fall off, break, etc. they are much slower to learn. Absolutly no reason to start on irons in 2024 other then price. The only people I have found who think irons are better then red dots, can't take their criticism dots give you for having poor presentation skills. You get infantly more information every time you present your pistol with a red dot then irons will ever give you.
@@CertifiedBullpupHater meh, when your looking at the lifetime of batteries in red dots and it's pretty much measured in years, I think it's almost a moot point.
Master irons before you use a red dot 🔴
Why tho
Humble people… like myself😂😂 have no problems with Staccato reliability, I’ve had it since Feb & 8krds no problem s with the gun.
Crap talkers and Staccatos= reliability problems 😂😂😂
If I'm paying that much for a handgun I should never have a malfunction provided I clean it regularly
Electronic optics is a modern advanced development to improve firearms accuracy, compared to the old iron sights system. Particularly, if you have eye problems.
A "red dot" makes shooting easier. Iron sights are falling into a thing of the past.
There is no more argument to irons vs dots with today’s dot tech.
There is no legit argument for irons anymore. Period…
Those who don’t shoot much are the ones that typically try to justify irons..
I dropped my Glocks for sigs then eventually dropped the sigs for Stsccato..
EDC went from 43x to p365 to 2024 CS..
There's one reason. Irons and etched reticles are good for the apocalypse
Point shooting anyone?
Sig always seems to suck at life
1) Yes you should learn fundamentals with irons. Ideally you would have a red dot that at least 1/3 co-witness. Also, you focus on the target with irons as well. 2) The striker control plate adds additional unreliability to an almost perfect weapons systems (Glock). 3) Shotguns are no bueno for home defense, they are an okay breaching tool.
1. To shoot irons accurately you should be front sight focused, not target.
3. Home defence is highly situational, but a shotgun with the right load can be a great option. If 9 rounds of 00 buck can't a home invader problem then I'm not sure what will. But I also live alone and am highly unlikely to hit a neighbors house.
I disagree with your last comment but that is ok that is an opinion. Here is why we differ a shot gun with double 00 buck shot generally has 9 thirty two cal. projectiles with one round fired. That said with out an extended magazine one holds say 4 plus 1 in the chamber that is 45 32 cal. down range very impressive in my opinion. For home defense I say it is the perfect choice with a 20 inch barrel.
@@AussieInCA11 Disagree on point one, you do you. Shotguns are loud, low round count, not precise. It is why we use them to breach and to clear. I suppose it is better then nothing.
@@marcdavis1728 my shotgun has one on the lifter, 8 in the tube and 10 on the gun in tearaway side saddles. I agree, if that can't convince people they want to leave I've got biiiiiig problems.
"Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people and shotguns take a big chunk of them and throw it on the floor" - Clint Smith
@@marcdavis1728 I will give you a homework assignment. Look on youtube for US Military clearing buildings in some place like Iraq and tell me about all the shotguns they use and how they use them.
Tessa- It is unfortunate you're advising skipping irons. Every shooter should learn the basics, period. Tech can fail. Learn irons or even your thumbs as rear sites.
Red dots trying to fix what isn’t broke. If you have bad trigger control, a red dot won’t help.
Well, I agree with the second half of that sentence haha
Training with a 1 moa red dot allowed me to more easily see my trigger press failings and correct them.
Bingo
Red dots, just one more thing to go wrong with your gun when you need it. Iron sights have worked just fine for hundreds of years, man-up and learn iron sights, geez. And no, red dots aren’t faster than irons if you know how to shoot. I guess everyone sucked at shooting prior to 2015.🤔🙄👎
Oh sheesh
@@tessahbooth Exactly, btw, nothing I said was wrong, of coarse I’m not an expert with a UA-cam channel, so there’s that I guess.
@@Kenn1969 I agree, irons have worked "just fine", but I'm no expert myself. Sure, I have a UA-cam channel, but I don't have a Harley Davidson, so we're even haha.
Having shot with both, I can get on target a lot quicker with red dot sights.
It’s funny to see how emotionally compromised people get over certain issues. “Man-up”? lol.
SIGS ARE OVERRATED OVERPRICED TRASH.
Terrible video you don’t answer specific questions..
What questions didn't I answer exactly?
When you got sucked into the sig grift I unsubscribed. The algorithm brought this up again. Now I block. Decisions have consequences and being bought by the slime that runs sig is enough.
Being bought? Man, I think that requires getting paid lol
What grift?
Dots over irons. Is like paying bills online vs paying via phone call. I stick with modern updated and improved. But I know how to use the old school.
*Shotgun fan*
Love shotguns for home defense loaded with less-lethal bean bag rounds, backed up by a handgun. As these low power rounds won't cycle a semi-auto, a pump action is best, though in some nations they may be banned, in which case a double-barrel shotgun like the Stoeger Coach Gun is best (the 'Double Defense' version has rails for an RDS and white light/laser). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round