Question: Looking at getting a hunting rifle (browning x bolt) in 300 PRC. What would you recommend for a scope; magnification, brands, features, etc? Budget would be sub $2.5k, preferably.
I have 2 EC Tuners and One is on a savage precision rifle in Creedmoor. I can say with certainty the tuner shrunk my groups in half at 100 yards while testing.
I'm not a shooter in any way shape or form, but I have a degree in Materials Science & Engineering / I'm a metallurgist, and your points on not doing barrel break-in, use of a calcium/limescale remover to clean stainless steel and cold welding (galling) of brass made total sense. Those points might be controversial in the precision shooting community, but you had me nodding in agreement instantly.
You say you don't clean your cases, right? I'm about to get started on reloading, so thank you for saving me about $100! My question is, does the dirty brass mess with the dies? I've heard that you shouldn't put dirty brass on any dies, what do you do about that? I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but I just want to be as safe as I can when I reload.
I was lucky enough to speak to Erik a while back, and he is the real deal. No ego, he just wants you to shoot the best you possibly can. It's very rare for people at this level to give anything away - normally they play their cards extremely close to their chest. But Erika is all about shooters becoming better shooters. Max Kudos!
The real joy of winning is when you manage to beat competitors that are every bit as good as you are; when at any given time no one is sure who is going to win.When Eric won in South Africa, there were probably 20 shooters there with the skill and equipment to win. Great shooter tend to share everything they know, but they can't share their skill and no one can buy it.
I talked to a rep at a piston manufacturer once and asked them why every piston company recommends aligning the piston ring gaps a certain direction even though piston rings are meant to rotate and they will all be oriented in random in 30 seconds. He said if they don’t put it in the instructions everyone will call and ask
The thing about Erik is he has tested everything in his system , he does or doesn’t do something because he’s tested whether it makes a difference or not . He leaves nothing to chance , everything is broke till you check it . He is a wealth of knowledge , a great guy and willing to share that knowledge with us . Thanks Erik !
Great interview. Erik is a great guy for sharing his knowledge. I’ve been watching his channel for a while and it’s great. I really like the fact that he doesn’t go in for dogma like barrel break-in (shoot twice, clean, say the magic words, clean). Everything he does is based on real world experience and testing. Great stuff.
Thank you Eric. You speak with confidence. I went through a situation where I bought an expensive bolt action rifle, and it did not shoot. Everyone had two cents of advice. Nothing was working. I had lost confidence in myself, thinking that I did not have what it takes to be a good shooter. One day I was in a gun store and they had a used Marlin 336 JM for sale, and I bought it because my son loves lever guns. I gave it a test run and over and over I was shooting 1.25 groups with cheap ammo and no fancy stuff going on. I got to thinking, and bought a very old used varmint bolt action and took it home and was shooting 3/4 groups over and over that afternoon. I realized it was not me or following any fancy procedure. A good shooting rifle is a good shooting rifle. I got rid of the expensive rifle. Just because it is expensive does not mean it is good. By the way, not that I am a great shooter, but I can beat anyone in my neighbourhood with that 30 year old JM Marlin in an off hand match. Confidence restored! Get rid of your lemons!
I was skeptical of the barrel tunner until I tried on on my Weatherby Mark V 338-378. No matter what factory ammo I used I never got better than 1-1/2” groups. I removed the Weatherby brake and installed the EC Tuner Brake and I proceeded to shout ten three shot groups with the largest being.0.78” and the smallest was 0.26” I let the barrel cool for 15 minutes between every group. I then removed the EC Tuner and reinstalled the Weatherby brake I shot four groups of three. The best was 1.80” and the worst was 2.40” reinstalled the EC Tuner and shot two groups with the best being 0.24 and seconds 0.4” then I purchased 4 more EC tuners for my other three Weatherby’s and my CA MPR 338 lapua that already averages 0.7” groups all day. I’ve already tried it on my 338 Weatherby RPM and it cut its group size in half.
Erik has been a huge influence on my long range journey. One thing that he has taught me is to test everything. I clean w CLR. I have tested dirty brass. No difference in accuracy. I clean my brass because I like working w clean brass and having “ pretty ammo”. Those are just a very a few things that I’ve learned and tested. I’m looking for sub moa on my reloading and don’t do anything beyond that. Cleaning primer pockets, brass turner, etc…. Not in my processes. But every gun I shoot has a tuner on it. Jim you need to go get one of those Mosbergs that wouldn’t shoot and tune in the worst ammo that it shot and tune it in. Guarantee you could cut the group in half. Tuners are the way to go. I don’t do seating depth tests except to find what the gun likes. After that each load just gets tuned in with the tuner. Every load for my Mosberg Patriot 7prc is 3.295 OAL. Then it gets tuned. I have shot several 3 inch groups at 1000 yards with that Mosberg Patriot. I have purchased 4 EC Tuner Brakes. I am amazed how many UA-camrs don’t know how to use tuners. If your gun won’t shoot…. Now what? Bed the action, float the barrel, grab a tuner and make it shoot. Thanks Erik. You’re the best.
Tuners… I’m still amazed at the controversy in the topic. I’m also still amazed that “The Boss” system is never mentioned from roughly 30 years ago on Browning and Winchester rifles. To this day I still have my 270 Win Browning A Bolt Stalker and was amazed back then as to how I could make factory ammo shoot better. Fast forward to now and I’m reloading, it’s basically what you’re doing when hunting barrel harmonics. So the combination of the two sounds good to me.
Better than good its Awesome !!! The noise of the brake is why the boss was discontinued . The sportsman didnt get it !!! Boss was the greatest thing since rifleing !!! People are very stupid . At 100yds i can hold a .418 hole diameter in the paper on a 300 wm A-bolt . Case closed !!!
There is a reason why you see weighted bars attached to professional bows in archery it adds more control over the flexing of the arrow and the string when shooting.
My father still has his Browning A-Bolt in 7mm Rem Mag and the 3" orange sticker from his 1st round down the 200yd range cold barrel insert random factory ammo and 1st round is 1" of bullseye. He put that sticker on the back of his Range Membership badge like a proud kid on their Trapper Keeper. Other than the percussion of a magnum cartridge rattling the entire shooting line I don't recall much else. I couldn't have been 11 or 12
Assuming break-in period may originated with non-lapped regular cheap drilled only barrels on most store bought rifles. Custom lapped barrels are polished mirror smooth after the drilling. Most people may not understand the mechanical and performance difference
I’m certain you’re right, problem Is someone is going to go buy a couple hundred dollar rifle, just shoot it build up copper in the machining marks and wander why after it’s properly cleaned it shoots off and then they’ll start the old “need to be dirty to shoot right” myth
@@lk9456 What people probably don't understand is that the copper deposition is important for consistency and velocity, especially on cheaper barrels. And when they decide to clean they take out too much copper instead of just taking out the carbon. I think that's why they conclude it has to be dirty. No, it just has to be properly copper-fouled to smooth any irregularities, and the fouling they should worry about is carbon. Not talking rimfire here, that carries another level of gunk in the fouling.
I won't give Erik all the credit for how I've advanced as a shooter, but he has played a part... He really got me to analyze all my reloading habits. Ive ditched a lot of unnecessary practices and in turn freed more of my time up to shoot. I still have a tumbler but really only use it to tumble brass I happen to pick up at the range... my brass never hits the ground so I quit cleaning it, except for the primer pockets. Also, if you're shooting a chrome moly steel barrel, CLR will discolor it and potentially damage it. If you need a solvent to soften hard carbon deposits that is safe for CM steel barrels, try Free All penetrating oil... Best stuff I've found and it's about $10 a can and can be bought at most auto parts stores. If your gun is really dirty it may take some elbow grease the first time you use the Free All. But once you get it clean and stay on top of it, it makes it a breeze.
Absolutely love your interviews Jim after Seth from Hornady and now this one, you do a nice job and I love ego free guests with great knowledge. Keep it up!
I use the Harrels tuner/brakes and can state for a fact they do work. I shot 16 targets at 100 yds without a tuner/brake and my best 5 shot groups would be 5/8" with my factory Remington 700 223 rifle. When I installed the tuner/brake I shot 16 - 5 shot groups at varying stages of the tuner 3 times and in all 16 targets 3 times the best group would be 3/8". Tuners do work and I like the Harrels because it is more streamlined and looks better on the barrel and truly shine on factory barrels.
Leading off the conversation by pointing out how superstitious shooters can be. Well done. Even better, hearing so many of my own beliefs/observations supported and shared by someone far more dedicated and accomplished.
Big believer in barrel "tuning". I bought a cheap rubber limb saver barrel tuner for my tikka t3x ultra light in 7mm-08 using norma 156gr oryx and was able to go from 1 moa to almost .5 moa in about an hour with very little adjustment. For me, that was huge for such a small investment.
Barrel break in is a legacy from decades ago when machining wasn't as precise and many, if not most, barrels would have microscope burs and similar. Hammer forged barrels, button rifling etc have made this a thing of the past for most barrels
many years back with my Noreen 416 Barrett and my ArmaLite 50 A1 that's exactly how they said to break in your barrel and now it's like it's all wrong and never run the barrel with brass. Just send them. And now, none of my Pew pews get a cleaning until after 700 grams with a nylon brush. I stepped away with CLR . Heard for years that people use Windex, but ammonia is corrosive. what I have found is Bore Tech eliminator cleaner.
Thanks. Very informative. I was just debating about breaking in a barrel on my new long range rifle and I was thinking about skipping it. You just reassured me I don’t need to break in the barrel. I always felt break in was unnecessary
No my friend. Breaking a barrel is like dating a virgin. You could always go hard in the first time, but you'll ruin the moment. Always break the barrel. Even if it's unnecessary. You are not doing it for the barrel. It's for you...
Better quality barrels may not need it, like brux. A factory rough cut barrel like savage? Extreme copper mine lol takes many many shots to smooth it out and stop tearing up jackets. But one thing i notice on new barrels is speed up. Thats the break in you see. 100 shots or so my shilen 28 nosler barrel increased 50-60 fps
The more I hear from Erik, the more it’s clear just how smart that dude is. He holds nothing as “sacred” just because it has always been done that way or other experts do it. He only cares about real world results.
I would say barrel tuners are one answer to the fact you have to find the right ammo for your gun. Different ammo characteristics will introduce different wave characteristics within the barrel.
He's changed his stance on CLR. Not because he stopped using it, but because he found out that certain barrel manufacturers won't warrant the barrel if you've used CLR in it.
Regarding barrel break in… My first rifle was and still is a howa. We took it to the range to break it in. The process required shooting a whole box of rounds and cleaning and letting barrel cool completely. Between each of the first 10 rounds, and then shoot twice, and clean/cool for the last 10. Took at least 5 minutes for the barrel to cool between shots, and finally when I had 5 rounds left my dad decided we weren’t gonna stay any longer. (I was 12 at the time). I fought him like crazy because this was my first rifle that I had worked hard and saved up for and I wanted to ensure I got the most out of it, but he wouldn’t budge. I angrily loaded the last 5 rounds and without thinking clearly fired all of them racking the bolt in quick secession. When I touched the barrel afterward it almost burnt my hand. I knew I had made a huge mistake, because the instructions specially stated that if the barrel got hot during break in It would lose its memory and accuracy would suffer when it got heated in the future. The next time we brought it to the range we said up a paper target at probably 50 yards, got prone, took a shot and I watched a perfectly healthy branch 10 feet above the target break off and fall to the ground. The next shots I made were on paper. I got some good vortex rings and a better rail after that, and was able to get 2 inch groups at 100 yards, only if I let my barrel cool completely (talking 5 minutes) between each shot. Ever since there has been no consistency with that rifle. I think I get it dialed in but the next shot is off paper. Very frustrating and time consuming. Shot 3 bucks with it but my range is limited. Just recently hiked up the steepest canyon of my life, found a nice buck, got within about 250 yds and had to pass on it, because I knew I couldn’t trust my barrel. Follow the instructions folks!
Love this guy, learnt so much from Erik Cortina, so much so that it makes me confident in what I am trying to do when shooting, when I hear people talk and they really don’t know what they are saying, I just say nothing but when approached by someone who really is struggling,I know I can give them what they really need to know that will help them. So thanks to both of you for making great information available to us mere mortals. greetings from Western Australia.
I remember reading an article in a Gun Digest catalog about the Schuetzen competition. It’s offhand shoot and you load the cartridge on the spot. If memory serves it is a pie sized target and a considerable trajectory arc. The interesting concept was the shoot wants to put the amount of powder, in the cartridge, to “put the bullet to sleep”. I wonder if Eric’s reloading practice follows this principle?
In my experience this is generally caused by the bolt getting slighty unlocked I had this happen with my hunting rifle once I’m lefty with a right bolt and saw the bolt flick down when I pulled trigger
Thanks Eric for telling some secrets about Accuracy. I’m 62 now and don’t really Hunt much at all anymore. So my Main game now is seeing just how accurate I can be at different Ranges. I’m kinda a perfectionist so I really work on my form, and finding just the right round and Weight that shoots best in my Rifle. I really need to learn how to reload my own Rounds. Hopefully soon. Thanks again.👍👍
Browning has had build in barrel tuners for decades. They were one of the first if not the first to do these. Build into the rifles. Called the browning boss system. Works amazing.
I use EC tuner and shoot out to 1000 yards. I feel like the swing set analogy is awesome. I think is elongates the time at the top of the swing. By slowing down the swinging speed slightly it will be stopped at the end of harmonic swing a moment longer giving more time for the bullet to exit the barrel, while not being whipped.
At the 10:00 mark, the conversation touches on a barrel tuner and I have a little bit of advice for those that do not handload; get a tuner. There's not any caliber rifle that cannot be tuned for better accuracy with factory ammunition. I've seen them improve groups that are already good, as well as groups that are not good, but you still have the responsibility of buying enough different bullet brands and bullet weights to narrow down what works best.
Great video guys! i had a Browning 7mm rem mag with a BOSS system (kinda like the barrel tuner yall are talking about) it was a 1/4 moa gun when i adjusted properly, that was with factory ammo loads from federal. I also bought it in the 270 win, similar results, 0.5 moa.
This has been the most informative video I've watched of yours , thank you for covering this. You certainly couldn't have picked a better shooter than Erik to talk with. I've seen some of his groups and it makes me right embarrassed to see my groups. I'd like to ask some questions and would appreciate so much if when possible if you could help me. I stopped hunting years ago but still loved shooting ( I also support hunting ). I never owned a center fire rifle untill I was late fifties 57 or 58 when I had to stop working. I heard about precision long range shooting and thought that was something I'd really enjoy. I had several 22 lr rifles and enjoyed shooting match books at 75 - 100 yds. I knew much about rifles and ballistics , what you can learn from books , mags. I ve studied them all my life but you cannot learn to shoot reading. I started watching, reading asking and listening online anywhere I could learn. I bought a RPR in 6.5 Creed with a Vortex Viper 5×25×50 when that scope first came out. I started shooting , ELD match and I shot every day if possible not many rds just trying 2 to 3 5 shot groups trying to be perfect each time. Of course I wasn't but became proficient enough I ordered a rifle from George Gardner in another 6 5 Creed with Nightforce ATACR 5×25×56 atlas bipod, everything the best I knew of but I didn't know enough about the various types of competitions. That's what Id like to get into. I dont expect to shoot anywhere near like shooters of Erik's caliber, I'd like to shoot F class and not look a fool , but be around great shooters to learn all I can. My questions finally and I apologize for the long background , I just wanted you to know I am serious and dedicated to my shooting. Both my rifles are PRS tactical style and I'd like to eventually have a F class build. I've noticed in this class most shooters have some form of the .280 . Why are this caliber and these variations so popular at 1000 yds. Why not the 6.5 Creed. I like this caliber and if recoil isn't too much was thinking what about the 6.5 PRC? Also tell me more about your 22 Creed and not just from a F class but I'd like to have a rifle in all the Creed family. What is recommended however for F class. Lastly I wish on some of your videos try to separate and distinguish between target shooting and hunting aspects of your topic. Thank you so much.
There is nothing like hearing from people who know what they're talking about! Thank you, Erik and Jim, for sharing your experience and knowledge. God bless, Miles
He said the exact reason for shooting and obviously winning, was constancy, and he's 100% correct. We called it doing the same thing over and over. Once the little parts of each step that showed improvement couldn't be made better, move towards the next item affecting your accuracy. Repetition, on a obsessive level, means you can start isolating what might have caused the losing or winning shot. It's almost boring to some people who can't wrap their head around the "doing the same thing every single shot " that leads to winning and killing the last highest score so convincingly your surprised about it yourself. Shooting precision match competition, was the best time I had in the early 80's. Ended up on the USAMU (Army) shooting team. Only difference was service rifle (open sights) M1A vs bolt action rifles at camp Perry in ohio, meant any scoped rifle for us went from 308 in service rifle to 300 win mag in our bolt action scoped rifles. 2 sighters, 20 rounds for record was done with both rifles, and the scoring showed the accuracy difference was very obvious going from open sights M1A having a 190 score minimum at 1000 yards, and a 195 or better was a really good day, too a 200 with 10-12 X ring hits at a 1000 meant you MIGHT be on the first page. The 300 win mag ran circles around our M1A's, and having a scope to do it with just rocked. Funny how much a heartbeat can make you do it badly.. Took me 5 years before I was allowed to shoot a 300 wm at the long range matchs done to crown the nation's best long range shooter. I was lucky enough to be in the top 3, and winning the across the course long range title with service rifle and the scoped 300's was so different than what I expected. I was at the 1-2 top score with the scoped 300, and the coaches were bitching at me for not using the 300 before then. Had to remind them I did try, they jys5 ignored me when I asked in the past. I did make the Palma team and went to Australia close to Sydney and shot for the USA team. I was the only Army guy who made the Palma team. It was like he said, consistently doing the same thing for winning scores is how anyone can be the best and number one in the country and world. Precision shooting is 10 % physical, 90 % mental. And having a level of confidence your gonna get a mental side effect that can be seen as cocky, but isn't. We didn't brag until we were playing Boo-Ray card game, taking the English, Italian, and couple other countries teams money nightly. The joking was epic in the translation sometimes, but always fun. I miss doing the shooting matchs. Funny how many non shooting people can't see a 1000, yards, and believe I did it with open sights. Pictures are great for this. Don't think, just do it the same way as the last X ring shot. 3.5 inches circle @1000 yards open sights, using slings and shooting jackets.. C ya'll on the range someday.
I lived near Erik for a long time, shot with him way back and remembered he started with a small concrete business. He is smart and business oriented for sure.
I use the $10.00 rubber donuts harmonic dampers on several of my rifles and the groups are noticeably smaller as I find the sweet spot. They are placed at 1/3 or 1/2 or 1/4 barrel length just as a stringed instrument sting is touched to change the string's frequency .
That's interesting about barrel break-in and customer expectation. Totally different subject, but I had a fascinating conversation with someone who designed clothes and the lables/care instructions, which go in them. She was saying how washing machines are bad and aren't good for clothes. But no one is going to buy a £20 t-shirt, which states "dry clean only." And conversely, if someone buys a premium dress or top. They expect to see "dry clean only," putting "machine wash" on such a garment would make it appear less fine. So, in the consumer market, care instructions have a lot more to do with price point and customer expectation than it does to do with what the product in question needs, or can tolerate.
I got lucky with a Browning Abolt 2 wBoss .300 wm and .354 at 200yds with hand loads.. amazing how shifting the length causes groups to tighten or expand! Eric you keep selling those EC Tuners and the smartest of shooters will know that they have an edge!!
I have never followed break in procedures for a barrel. I first get a rifle and I drag the snake through twice, just in case there was any dust. I put some grease on the bolt and lugs and run it a few time. Then, I go and shoot it. I also tend to clean after every time at the range, regardless of number of shots. My intention is to get rid of carbon and dirt but not copper. So, I drag the snake a few times. Then 5 or 6 patches of #9. Then 3 patches of oil. More grease on the bolt and lugs. Done. And wipe down the outside. Another thing I learned, get some cheap sanitary gloves. Where those while cleaning and then throw them away.
I love this guy! One cannot argue with results. The image of Erik being carried by his team after the South Africa win will always be in my mind. And he shoots Brux Barrels, just what I shoot.
Regarding cleaning brass One of the prominent BR shooters back in the day said "I don't even clean my primers pockets" and he won many 1st place Trophy's. I believe it deposits a certain amount of carbon just from the first firing And stays the same from then on, the rest being blown out every firing Meaning after the inside is carboned up once, it doesnt build up from there
Correct me if I am wrong, but that was a great interview. Interesting that the tuner is helping lower end gun, I thought EC was going to say it helps 1/4 MOA guns more. EC is such a down to earth straight forward speaker!
Lou Murdica moly’s the necks on his cases to prevent cold welding and increase consistent bullet release. Being a bench rest shooter he is also in a position to constantly refine his method so he may have changed his technique.
It would be very hard to demonstrate the moly lube actually does what is desired. You'd need a temperature resistant camera lens placed in the chamber, taking high speed video footage and watching the projectile's release over thousands of rounds. And how would that camera lens not alter the chamber, that's what I wonder. As a preventive/hoped-for measure it's smart to lube to prevent binding or cold welding.
On the subject of bullet measuring base to tip. One note of interest I've found is that some projectiles can vary wildly in OL length. Nosler RDF comes to mind. If your seating die pushes from bullet tip (opposed to ogive) as most do, then your overall cartridge base to tip is consistent but cartridge base to ogive is inconsistent and therefore your ogive to lands will vary by that amount. The RDF bullets I've experienced (three different lots- I'll buy no more) varied by up to .068". On the other hand, Hornady ELDx varies by about .003" on average. So if ogive to lands measure is important to you, this is something to be aware of. Also, as the bullet is pushing at different lengths into the brass, the internal capacity will vary by said amount of differences.
You're louder than your guest. Volume-wise. After all that, it's nice to see that long range shooting has advanced, since I was last involved, nearly a decade ago. 3" @ 1000yds is pretty tight.
..first time I've seen this and what a great video. I've found a couple of these for myself; barrel break-in, brass cleaning, bullet length. I think it's good to know the difference theory and reality and you need someone with Erik's experience to validate.
On the subject of barrel tuner theory, I'm reminded of this observation: The difference between theory and practice in theory, is much larger than the difference between theory and practice in practice. With modern advanced cameras and other sensors, we can measure extremely minute changes. The real problem is to determine how much you are going to spend on vanishingly small returns? It reminds me of the 300 pound biker wondering why the little guy on the same bike is faster! There is so much to be gained from basic stuff that we just don't do well, never mind chasing after a potential 2%.
I believe that some factory barrels are kinda rough. (I have a bore scope and I'm trying to be nice, lol). But some of these barrels do shoot better after a break-in. Or is it the bullets just smoothing things out? I'm not sure. But there are some mass produced barrels out there that shoot better after a few hundred rounds. By the way, hats off to Cortina. Super guy.
@Backfire. in Erik's analogy of the swingset regarding tuners, in reality, he should "time" the bullet exit as the BOTTOM of the swingset's travel and NOT when the swingset reaches it's peak and "stops." In the actual physics of the barrel vibrating [assuming that is is timed TDC in the vertical plane], you want the bullet to exit when the barrel's axis is at 0 degrees on the horizontal plane, that is crossing the ZERO point on the X-axis before it goes "negative." Regarding testing tuners, I myself have never used one, however, I do remember when Browning attempted to market their BOSS system way back when!! The assumption is that the bullet exiting above the ZERO point will throw high shots, and conversely, the bullet exiting below the ZERO point will throw low shots. Now ponder this, if your reloads are almost "identical", then theoretically the bullets are all exiting at the same point relative to this ZERO or horizontal line, and therefore you just need to adjust your sights accordingly!! AND the need for a barrel tuner diminishes.
Once Iset a 30 cal bullit on a granit surface plate that was perfectly level in all directions. Low and behold the bullit began to roll on the surface plate. I noticed that it slightly learched as it rolled. I marked the high side of the bullit with a red sharpie and rolled it again several times. the bullit always came to rest with the sharpie marh up . the bullit was out of balance. I started testing all my bullits before I load them and have found many more out of balance bullits . My groups tightend up after culling these bullits.
I want Eric to elaborate “a whole lot, more“ on “fully resizing“. I understand what he and others are saying about consistency, but to me and most of the people I’ve corresponded with that have reloaded since the early 1980s, Are confused and think full length resizing undoes what “fire forming“ accomplishes. A lot of reloading companies I’ve corresponded with also agree, Eric needs to elaborate a whole lot more on this topic🤔
I think he touched upon this in an earlier video ( wish I could find it now). He states that he mostly bumps the shoulders to be consistent with the fl die. His fear is that not resizing makes the brass harder to get in and out of the chamber I believe.
Im a believer, and that's only usuing limbsaver X ring dampner. It helps control muzzle movement during lock-up time for greater accuracy and also tunes the vibration waves that affect shot grouping. These are very inexpensive but definitely work. And were talking about a $10 dollar device not these $300 dollar tuners, who knows how good they may be....
For the Rem 740/742/7400 shooters, you wanna keep the rails overly lubed if you want to keep the gun alive....or just keep it from breaking if you live in Washington as you're SOL on buying parts locally or online. Gotta travel!
The barrel break in is jsut like the egine break in for cars. Your engine gets full load tested in the factory end reved to max, every professional just floors it. Engine tolerances today are so tight you dont need it to run in. But people heard it for ages and expect the manufactures to give them a protocoll.
I have a BOSS barrel tuner on my Browning. That rifle is 30 years old. Works great, but that means you have to shoot a lot of rounds to fine tune it. Goes against the grain today because ammo is so expensive, everybody wants a one shot zero and then go hunting…
I put an EC tuner on an 18" Douglas SPR barrel not only did I see point of impact shift (down) after installation I shot 10 shots re zeroed to center (.4 MIL down) through a full rotation I was getting a group high and slightly right and a group low and slightly left. I split the difference and tested it and was shooting tight groups which seemed to be better than the ones at the high/low impact points. The gun shot well to begin with and I honestly haven't done enough testing to know how much (if any) the tuner has helped my barrels performance. I have hundreds of groups recorded from that rifle mostly with 77gr Black Hills so after I shoot 25-30 or so more I will know for sure.
Barrel tuners... After loading my own ammo the past 12 years, it's my experince and understanding that powder charge is really just finding the load that causes the bullet to exist at the same time the harmonic vibration reaches the end of the barrel. But a tuner would.... fine tune at the end where you can't with get under a 1/10th grain.
Great interview ! On barrel break in, does it not stand to reason that a hand lapped brux barrel wouldn't need a break in , where a production rifle the average guy buys that watches your channel , might have rougher barrel , making it a copper magnet , that needs a careful break in to smooth the rough spots before it builds enough copper to create issues ?
Just a theory with those barrel tuners , much like a harmonic balancer on a engine to take out the harmonics , watch how a barrel moves in slow motion , they move quite a bit in a circular motion , i guess the tuners help to balance that motion to a point that does a consistant motion to compensate maybe for unequal barrel wall thickness....again this is just a threory , or have i missed this infomation , first time ive heard of a barrel tuner.
You can register Arena Breakout using my link! clcr.me/ArenaBreakout_Backfire
Question: Looking at getting a hunting rifle (browning x bolt) in 300 PRC. What would you recommend for a scope; magnification, brands, features, etc? Budget would be sub $2.5k, preferably.
I have 2 EC Tuners and One is on a savage precision rifle in Creedmoor. I can say with certainty the tuner shrunk my groups in half at 100 yards while testing.
Ya know 🙄 Ya know 🙄 Ya know 🙄 Ya know 🙄 Ya know 🙄
Do you have children that are/will be old enough to shoot 4-H Small Bore Competition, all 50 States compete? It's what feeds the US Olympic team.
Thanks for having me on Jim. It was a good time.
You’re the man!
Thanks for sharing your experience with us, that is kind of you.
I'm not a shooter in any way shape or form, but I have a degree in Materials Science & Engineering / I'm a metallurgist, and your points on not doing barrel break-in, use of a calcium/limescale remover to clean stainless steel and cold welding (galling) of brass made total sense.
Those points might be controversial in the precision shooting community, but you had me nodding in agreement instantly.
Such a fake
You say you don't clean your cases, right? I'm about to get started on reloading, so thank you for saving me about $100! My question is, does the dirty brass mess with the dies? I've heard that you shouldn't put dirty brass on any dies, what do you do about that? I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but I just want to be as safe as I can when I reload.
I was lucky enough to speak to Erik a while back, and he is the real deal. No ego, he just wants you to shoot the best you possibly can. It's very rare for people at this level to give anything away - normally they play their cards extremely close to their chest. But Erika is all about shooters becoming better shooters. Max Kudos!
The real joy of winning is when you manage to beat competitors that are every bit as good as you are; when at any given time no one is sure who is going to win.When Eric won in South Africa, there were probably 20 shooters there with the skill and equipment to win. Great shooter tend to share everything they know, but they can't share their skill and no one can buy it.
@@hrbricker Well said.
I talked to a rep at a piston manufacturer once and asked them why every piston company recommends aligning the piston ring gaps a certain direction even though piston rings are meant to rotate and they will all be oriented in random in 30 seconds. He said if they don’t put it in the instructions everyone will call and ask
Yep, read once that f1 rings rotate upwards of 30 rpm and thought, huh, aligning is all bullshit. 😂
The thing about Erik is he has tested everything in his system , he does or doesn’t do something because he’s tested whether it makes a difference or not . He leaves nothing to chance , everything is broke till you check it . He is a wealth of knowledge , a great guy and willing to share that knowledge with us . Thanks Erik !
Great interview. Erik is a great guy for sharing his knowledge. I’ve been watching his channel for a while and it’s great. I really like the fact that he doesn’t go in for dogma like barrel break-in (shoot twice, clean, say the magic words, clean). Everything he does is based on real world experience and testing. Great stuff.
"The real big guy!" That was hilarious!
Thank you Eric. You speak with confidence. I went through a situation where I bought an expensive bolt action rifle, and it did not shoot. Everyone had two cents of advice. Nothing was working. I had lost confidence in myself, thinking that I did not have what it takes to be a good shooter. One day I was in a gun store and they had a used Marlin 336 JM for sale, and I bought it because my son loves lever guns. I gave it a test run and over and over I was shooting 1.25 groups with cheap ammo and no fancy stuff going on. I got to thinking, and bought a very old used varmint bolt action and took it home and was shooting 3/4 groups over and over that afternoon. I realized it was not me or following any fancy procedure. A good shooting rifle is a good shooting rifle. I got rid of the expensive rifle. Just because it is expensive does not mean it is good. By the way, not that I am a great shooter, but I can beat anyone in my neighbourhood with that 30 year old JM Marlin in an off hand match. Confidence restored! Get rid of your lemons!
I just love Eric’s laid back pragmatic approach to everything, particularly where he challenges the old custom practice.
I was skeptical of the barrel tunner until I tried on on my Weatherby Mark V 338-378. No matter what factory ammo I used I never got better than 1-1/2” groups. I removed the Weatherby brake and installed the EC Tuner Brake and I proceeded to shout ten three shot groups with the largest being.0.78” and the smallest was 0.26” I let the barrel cool for 15 minutes between every group. I then removed the EC Tuner and reinstalled the Weatherby brake I shot four groups of three. The best was 1.80” and the worst was 2.40” reinstalled the EC Tuner and shot two groups with the best being 0.24 and seconds 0.4” then I purchased 4 more EC tuners for my other three Weatherby’s and my CA MPR 338 lapua that already averages 0.7” groups all day. I’ve already tried it on my 338 Weatherby RPM and it cut its group size in half.
Erik has been a huge influence on my long range journey. One thing that he has taught me is to test everything. I clean w CLR. I have tested dirty brass. No difference in accuracy. I clean my brass because I like working w clean brass and having “ pretty ammo”. Those are just a very a few things that I’ve learned and tested. I’m looking for sub moa on my reloading and don’t do anything beyond that. Cleaning primer pockets, brass turner, etc…. Not in my processes. But every gun I shoot has a tuner on it. Jim you need to go get one of those Mosbergs that wouldn’t shoot and tune in the worst ammo that it shot and tune it in. Guarantee you could cut the group in half. Tuners are the way to go. I don’t do seating depth tests except to find what the gun likes. After that each load just gets tuned in with the tuner. Every load for my Mosberg Patriot 7prc is 3.295 OAL. Then it gets tuned. I have shot several 3 inch groups at 1000 yards with that Mosberg Patriot. I have purchased 4 EC Tuner Brakes. I am amazed how many UA-camrs don’t know how to use tuners. If your gun won’t shoot…. Now what? Bed the action, float the barrel, grab a tuner and make it shoot. Thanks Erik. You’re the best.
Ok I'm
😊
Awesome interview! Great topics. Eric’s expertise is so valuable within the shooting community.
Tuners… I’m still amazed at the controversy in the topic. I’m also still amazed that “The Boss” system is never mentioned from roughly 30 years ago on Browning and Winchester rifles. To this day I still have my 270 Win Browning A Bolt Stalker and was amazed back then as to how I could make factory ammo shoot better. Fast forward to now and I’m reloading, it’s basically what you’re doing when hunting barrel harmonics. So the combination of the two sounds good to me.
Better than good its Awesome !!! The noise of the brake is why the boss was discontinued . The sportsman didnt get it !!! Boss was the greatest thing since rifleing !!! People are very stupid . At 100yds i can hold a .418 hole diameter in the paper on a 300 wm A-bolt . Case closed !!!
They didn't here but Erik definitely mentions it in other videos on the topic
There is a reason why you see weighted bars attached to professional bows in archery
it adds more control over the flexing of the arrow and the string when shooting.
I have three browning bar rifles i can in a single twist open a group up to over an inch!
My father still has his Browning A-Bolt in 7mm Rem Mag and the 3" orange sticker from his 1st round down the 200yd range cold barrel insert random factory ammo and 1st round is 1" of bullseye.
He put that sticker on the back of his Range Membership badge like a proud kid on their Trapper Keeper.
Other than the percussion of a magnum cartridge rattling the entire shooting line I don't recall much else. I couldn't have been 11 or 12
Assuming break-in period may originated with non-lapped regular cheap drilled only barrels on most store bought rifles. Custom lapped barrels are polished mirror smooth after the drilling. Most people may not understand the mechanical and performance difference
I’m certain you’re right, problem Is someone is going to go buy a couple hundred dollar rifle, just shoot it build up copper in the machining marks and wander why after it’s properly cleaned it shoots off and then they’ll start the old “need to be dirty to shoot right” myth
@@lk9456 What people probably don't understand is that the copper deposition is important for consistency and velocity, especially on cheaper barrels. And when they decide to clean they take out too much copper instead of just taking out the carbon. I think that's why they conclude it has to be dirty. No, it just has to be properly copper-fouled to smooth any irregularities, and the fouling they should worry about is carbon.
Not talking rimfire here, that carries another level of gunk in the fouling.
I won't give Erik all the credit for how I've advanced as a shooter, but he has played a part... He really got me to analyze all my reloading habits. Ive ditched a lot of unnecessary practices and in turn freed more of my time up to shoot. I still have a tumbler but really only use it to tumble brass I happen to pick up at the range... my brass never hits the ground so I quit cleaning it, except for the primer pockets.
Also, if you're shooting a chrome moly steel barrel, CLR will discolor it and potentially damage it. If you need a solvent to soften hard carbon deposits that is safe for CM steel barrels, try Free All penetrating oil... Best stuff I've found and it's about $10 a can and can be bought at most auto parts stores. If your gun is really dirty it may take some elbow grease the first time you use the Free All. But once you get it clean and stay on top of it, it makes it a breeze.
Absolutely love your interviews Jim after Seth from Hornady and now this one, you do a nice job and I love ego free guests with great knowledge. Keep it up!
I use the Harrels tuner/brakes and can state for a fact they do work. I shot 16 targets at 100 yds without a tuner/brake and my best 5 shot groups would be 5/8" with my factory Remington 700 223 rifle. When I installed the tuner/brake I shot 16 - 5 shot groups at varying stages of the tuner 3 times and in all 16 targets 3 times the best group would be 3/8".
Tuners do work and I like the Harrels because it is more streamlined and looks better on the barrel and truly shine on factory barrels.
Leading off the conversation by pointing out how superstitious shooters can be. Well done.
Even better, hearing so many of my own beliefs/observations supported and shared by someone far more dedicated and accomplished.
Big believer in barrel "tuning". I bought a cheap rubber limb saver barrel tuner for my tikka t3x ultra light in 7mm-08 using norma 156gr oryx and was able to go from 1 moa to almost .5 moa in about an hour with very little adjustment.
For me, that was huge for such a small investment.
Really?
I’m a huge fan of the EC Tuner brake but I have gotten really good results with the limb-saver also. Test, test, test.
Barrel break in is a legacy from decades ago when machining wasn't as precise and many, if not most, barrels would have microscope burs and similar.
Hammer forged barrels, button rifling etc have made this a thing of the past for most barrels
Not even then.
many years back with my Noreen 416 Barrett and my ArmaLite 50 A1 that's exactly how they said to break in your barrel and now it's like it's all wrong and never run the barrel with brass. Just send them. And now, none of my Pew pews get a cleaning until after 700 grams with a nylon brush. I stepped away with CLR . Heard for years that people use Windex, but ammonia is corrosive. what I have found is Bore Tech eliminator cleaner.
His interview is better than advertised. Great info from the expert.
Congrats on having the living legend on again, it’s amazing how much knowledge he gives out in just a few minutes
Thanks. Very informative. I was just debating about breaking in a barrel on my new long range rifle and I was thinking about skipping it. You just reassured me I don’t need to break in the barrel. I always felt break in was unnecessary
No my friend. Breaking a barrel is like dating a virgin. You could always go hard in the first time, but you'll ruin the moment. Always break the barrel. Even if it's unnecessary. You are not doing it for the barrel. It's for you...
Its BS
@@dangrango2553 wrong
Better quality barrels may not need it, like brux. A factory rough cut barrel like savage? Extreme copper mine lol takes many many shots to smooth it out and stop tearing up jackets. But one thing i notice on new barrels is speed up. Thats the break in you see. 100 shots or so my shilen 28 nosler barrel increased 50-60 fps
Thanks for having Erik on your show I follow you and him and find your experiences very valuable.
The more I hear from Erik, the more it’s clear just how smart that dude is. He holds nothing as “sacred” just because it has always been done that way or other experts do it. He only cares about real world results.
The type of guy who pushes a sport forward.
I would say barrel tuners are one answer to the fact you have to find the right ammo for your gun. Different ammo characteristics will introduce different wave characteristics within the barrel.
He's changed his stance on CLR. Not because he stopped using it, but because he found out that certain barrel manufacturers won't warrant the barrel if you've used CLR in it.
Regarding barrel break in… My first rifle was and still is a howa. We took it to the range to break it in. The process required shooting a whole box of rounds and cleaning and letting barrel cool completely. Between each of the first 10 rounds, and then shoot twice, and clean/cool for the last 10. Took at least 5 minutes for the barrel to cool between shots, and finally when I had 5 rounds left my dad decided we weren’t gonna stay any longer. (I was 12 at the time). I fought him like crazy because this was my first rifle that I had worked hard and saved up for and I wanted to ensure I got the most out of it, but he wouldn’t budge. I angrily loaded the last 5 rounds and without thinking clearly fired all of them racking the bolt in quick secession. When I touched the barrel afterward it almost burnt my hand. I knew I had made a huge mistake, because the instructions specially stated that if the barrel got hot during break in It would lose its memory and accuracy would suffer when it got heated in the future. The next time we brought it to the range we said up a paper target at probably 50 yards, got prone, took a shot and I watched a perfectly healthy branch 10 feet above the target break off and fall to the ground. The next shots I made were on paper. I got some good vortex rings and a better rail after that, and was able to get 2 inch groups at 100 yards, only if I let my barrel cool completely (talking 5 minutes) between each shot. Ever since there has been no consistency with that rifle. I think I get it dialed in but the next shot is off paper. Very frustrating and time consuming. Shot 3 bucks with it but my range is limited. Just recently hiked up the steepest canyon of my life, found a nice buck, got within about 250 yds and had to pass on it, because I knew I couldn’t trust my barrel. Follow the instructions folks!
Love this guy, learnt so much from Erik Cortina, so much so that it makes me confident in what I am trying to do when shooting, when I hear people talk and they really don’t know what they are saying, I just say nothing but when approached by someone who really is struggling,I know I can give them what they really need to know that will help them. So thanks to both of you for making great information available to us mere mortals. greetings from Western Australia.
Browning's BOSS system was the first tuner I knew of. It was with a hunting rifle that was rubber bedded. It truely works.
Really like both of these guys, along with dessert dog , and Ron Spoomer . Lots of information to be learned, thanks guys!
I remember reading an article in a Gun Digest catalog about the Schuetzen competition. It’s offhand shoot and you load the cartridge on the spot. If memory serves it is a pie sized target and a considerable trajectory arc. The interesting concept was the shoot wants to put the amount of powder, in the cartridge, to “put the bullet to sleep”. I wonder if Eric’s reloading practice follows this principle?
Your sig cross just light primer striked on that last hunt. Might be the sign you need to at least clean the bolt.
In my experience this is generally caused by the bolt getting slighty unlocked I had this happen with my hunting rifle once I’m lefty with a right bolt and saw the bolt flick down when I pulled trigger
Thanks Eric for telling some secrets about Accuracy. I’m 62 now and don’t really Hunt much at all anymore. So my Main game now is seeing just how accurate I can be at different Ranges. I’m kinda a perfectionist so I really work on my form, and finding just the right round and Weight that shoots best in my Rifle. I really need to learn how to reload my own Rounds. Hopefully soon. Thanks again.👍👍
Browning has had build in barrel tuners for decades. They were one of the first if not the first to do these. Build into the rifles. Called the browning boss system. Works amazing.
I use EC tuner and shoot out to 1000 yards. I feel like the swing set analogy is awesome. I think is elongates the time at the top of the swing. By slowing down the swinging speed slightly it will be stopped at the end of harmonic swing a moment longer giving more time for the bullet to exit the barrel, while not being whipped.
Good stuff guys! I’m looking forward to trying bullet pointing!
At the 10:00 mark, the conversation touches on a barrel tuner and I have a little bit of advice for those that do not handload; get a tuner. There's not any caliber rifle that cannot be tuned for better accuracy with factory ammunition. I've seen them improve groups that are already good, as well as groups that are not good, but you still have the responsibility of buying enough different bullet brands and bullet weights to narrow down what works best.
Fan of your channel and really like the lean away from your usual hunters creed - to ELR target shooting.
Great video guys! i had a Browning 7mm rem mag with a BOSS system (kinda like the barrel tuner yall are talking about) it was a 1/4 moa gun when i adjusted properly, that was with factory ammo loads from federal. I also bought it in the 270 win, similar results, 0.5 moa.
This has been the most informative video I've watched of yours , thank you for covering this. You certainly couldn't have picked a better shooter than Erik to talk with. I've seen some of his groups and it makes me right embarrassed to see my groups. I'd like to ask some questions and would appreciate so much if when
possible if you could help me.
I stopped hunting years ago but still loved shooting ( I also support hunting ). I never owned a center fire rifle untill I was late fifties 57 or 58 when I had to stop working. I heard about precision long range shooting and thought that was something I'd really enjoy. I had several 22 lr rifles and enjoyed shooting match books at 75 - 100 yds. I knew much about rifles and ballistics , what you can learn from books , mags. I ve studied them all my life but you cannot learn to shoot reading.
I started watching, reading asking and listening online anywhere I could learn. I bought a RPR in 6.5 Creed with a Vortex Viper 5×25×50 when that scope first came out. I started shooting , ELD match and I shot every day if possible not many rds just trying 2 to 3 5 shot groups trying to be perfect each time.
Of course I wasn't but became proficient enough I ordered a rifle from George Gardner in another 6 5 Creed with Nightforce ATACR 5×25×56 atlas bipod, everything the best I knew of but I didn't know enough about the various types of competitions. That's what Id like to get into. I dont expect to shoot anywhere near like shooters of Erik's caliber, I'd like to shoot F class and not look a fool , but be around great shooters to learn all I can. My questions finally and I apologize for the long background , I just wanted you to know I am serious and dedicated to my shooting. Both my rifles are PRS tactical style and I'd like to eventually have a F class build. I've noticed in this class most shooters have some form of the .280 . Why are this caliber and these variations so popular at 1000 yds. Why not the 6.5 Creed. I like this caliber and if recoil isn't too much was thinking what about the 6.5 PRC? Also tell me more about your 22 Creed and not just from a F class but I'd like to have a rifle in all the Creed family. What is recommended however for F class. Lastly I wish on some of your videos try to separate and distinguish between target shooting and hunting aspects of your topic.
Thank you so much.
There is nothing like hearing from people who know what they're talking about! Thank you, Erik and Jim, for sharing your experience and knowledge. God bless, Miles
Eric Cortina is my favorite long range shooter, teacher and a mentor.
He said the exact reason for shooting and obviously winning, was constancy, and he's 100% correct. We called it doing the same thing over and over. Once the little parts of each step that showed improvement couldn't be made better, move towards the next item affecting your accuracy. Repetition, on a obsessive level, means you can start isolating what might have caused the losing or winning shot. It's almost boring to some people who can't wrap their head around the "doing the same thing every single shot " that leads to winning and killing the last highest score so convincingly your surprised about it yourself.
Shooting precision match competition, was the best time I had in the early 80's. Ended up on the USAMU (Army) shooting team. Only difference was service rifle (open sights) M1A vs bolt action rifles at camp Perry in ohio, meant any scoped rifle for us went from 308 in service rifle to 300 win mag in our bolt action scoped rifles.
2 sighters, 20 rounds for record was done with both rifles, and the scoring showed the accuracy difference was very obvious going from open sights M1A having a 190 score minimum at 1000 yards, and a 195 or better was a really good day, too a 200 with 10-12 X ring hits at a 1000 meant you MIGHT be on the first page. The 300 win mag ran circles around our M1A's, and having a scope to do it with just rocked. Funny how much a heartbeat can make you do it badly..
Took me 5 years before I was allowed to shoot a 300 wm at the long range matchs done to crown the nation's best long range shooter. I was lucky enough to be in the top 3, and winning the across the course long range title with service rifle and the scoped 300's was so different than what I expected. I was at the 1-2 top score with the scoped 300, and the coaches were bitching at me for not using the 300 before then. Had to remind them I did try, they jys5 ignored me when I asked in the past. I did make the Palma team and went to Australia close to Sydney and shot for the USA team. I was the only Army guy who made the Palma team.
It was like he said, consistently doing the same thing for winning scores is how anyone can be the best and number one in the country and world. Precision shooting is 10 % physical, 90 % mental. And having a level of confidence your gonna get a mental side effect that can be seen as cocky, but isn't. We didn't brag until we were playing Boo-Ray card game, taking the English, Italian, and couple other countries teams money nightly. The joking was epic in the translation sometimes, but always fun. I miss doing the shooting matchs. Funny how many non shooting people can't see a 1000, yards, and believe I did it with open sights.
Pictures are great for this.
Don't think, just do it the same way as the last X ring shot. 3.5 inches circle @1000 yards open sights, using slings and shooting jackets.. C ya'll on the range someday.
Eric is an outstanding resource, willing to share. Thank you both!
I miss Eric’s Texas Barndominiums show. It was one of my favorites.
I lived near Erik for a long time, shot with him way back and remembered he started with a small concrete business. He is smart and business oriented for sure.
One of the best videos I’ve seen from you. Great job!
I use the $10.00 rubber donuts harmonic dampers on several of my rifles and the groups are noticeably smaller as I find the sweet spot. They are placed at 1/3 or 1/2 or 1/4 barrel length just as a stringed instrument sting is touched to change the string's frequency .
That was great ! Thanks Jim ! Thanks Eric !
That's interesting about barrel break-in and customer expectation.
Totally different subject, but I had a fascinating conversation with someone who designed clothes and the lables/care instructions, which go in them.
She was saying how washing machines are bad and aren't good for clothes. But no one is going to buy a £20 t-shirt, which states "dry clean only." And conversely, if someone buys a premium dress or top. They expect to see "dry clean only," putting "machine wash" on such a garment would make it appear less fine.
So, in the consumer market, care instructions have a lot more to do with price point and customer expectation than it does to do with what the product in question needs, or can tolerate.
I got lucky with a Browning Abolt 2 wBoss .300 wm and .354 at 200yds with hand loads.. amazing how shifting the length causes groups to tighten or expand! Eric you keep selling those EC Tuners and the smartest of shooters will know that they have an edge!!
I have never followed break in procedures for a barrel. I first get a rifle and I drag the snake through twice, just in case there was any dust. I put some grease on the bolt and lugs and run it a few time. Then, I go and shoot it.
I also tend to clean after every time at the range, regardless of number of shots. My intention is to get rid of carbon and dirt but not copper. So, I drag the snake a few times. Then 5 or 6 patches of #9. Then 3 patches of oil. More grease on the bolt and lugs. Done. And wipe down the outside.
Another thing I learned, get some cheap sanitary gloves. Where those while cleaning and then throw them away.
I shoot mine to clean it! Nothing cleans like a speeding bullet.
I love this guy! One cannot argue with results. The image of Erik being carried by his team after the South Africa win will always be in my mind. And he shoots Brux Barrels, just what I shoot.
Regarding cleaning brass
One of the prominent BR shooters back in the day said
"I don't even clean my primers pockets"
and he won many 1st place Trophy's.
I believe it deposits a certain amount of carbon just from the first firing
And stays the same from then on, the rest being blown out every firing
Meaning after the inside is carboned up once, it doesnt build up from there
Correct me if I am wrong, but that was a great interview. Interesting that the tuner is helping lower end gun, I thought EC was going to say it helps 1/4 MOA guns more. EC is such a down to earth straight forward speaker!
Lou Murdica moly’s the necks on his cases to prevent cold welding and increase consistent bullet release.
Being a bench rest shooter he is also in a position to constantly refine his method so he may have changed his technique.
It would be very hard to demonstrate the moly lube actually does what is desired. You'd need a temperature resistant camera lens placed in the chamber, taking high speed video footage and watching the projectile's release over thousands of rounds. And how would that camera lens not alter the chamber, that's what I wonder. As a preventive/hoped-for measure it's smart to lube to prevent binding or cold welding.
That was great! Enjoyed that convo, very informative!
On the subject of bullet measuring base to tip. One note of interest I've found is that some projectiles can vary wildly in OL length. Nosler RDF comes to mind. If your seating die pushes from bullet tip (opposed to ogive) as most do, then your overall cartridge base to tip is consistent but cartridge base to ogive is inconsistent and therefore your ogive to lands will vary by that amount. The RDF bullets I've experienced (three different lots- I'll buy no more) varied by up to .068". On the other hand, Hornady ELDx varies by about .003" on average. So if ogive to lands measure is important to you, this is something to be aware of. Also, as the bullet is pushing at different lengths into the brass, the internal capacity will vary by said amount of differences.
What a fantastic video! Thanks for the great information. I’m not even a long range shooter and I 100% enjoyed this video.
Great video! Wish I had seen this years ago. Eric told it like it is, and he should know. Outstanding.
You're louder than your guest. Volume-wise.
After all that, it's nice to see that long range shooting has advanced, since I was last involved, nearly a decade ago.
3" @ 1000yds is pretty tight.
He is a great person to follow I like when no name john tells him what he is doing all wrong lol
..first time I've seen this and what a great video. I've found a couple of these for myself; barrel break-in, brass cleaning, bullet length. I think it's good to know the difference theory and reality and you need someone with Erik's experience to validate.
Ultra Sonic cleaner with Antifreeze works wonder on R/C Nitro Motors so I bet it would work great on firearm parts!
On the subject of barrel tuner theory, I'm reminded of this observation: The difference between theory and practice in theory, is much larger than the difference between theory and practice in practice. With modern advanced cameras and other sensors, we can measure extremely minute changes. The real problem is to determine how much you are going to spend on vanishingly small returns? It reminds me of the 300 pound biker wondering why the little guy on the same bike is faster! There is so much to be gained from basic stuff that we just don't do well, never mind chasing after a potential 2%.
Awesome interview guys!! Thanks
Another valuable content video! Much like the scope test video. Still loving the Vortex you suggested BTW. Thanks, Jim! Keep 'em coming 🙌
I believe that some factory barrels are kinda rough. (I have a bore scope and I'm trying to be nice, lol). But some of these barrels do shoot better after a break-in. Or is it the bullets just smoothing things out? I'm not sure. But there are some mass produced barrels out there that shoot better after a few hundred rounds. By the way, hats off to Cortina. Super guy.
I've heard of people "fire lapping"; rolling the bullet in lapping compound and shooting it, to polish a rough bore.
@@AlitaGunm99 I've never done that, came close but never did. But with the price of bullets, powder and primers it might be worth a try these days.
You won't fix a bad throat, but I knew a guy that damaged the crown of his barrel, 20 shots fixed it, no gunsmith required.
Look up David Tubb’s Final Finish lapping bullets
@@lorenkrug Sounds good, I'll do that
👍🏾 interesting to hear that world champ, on the details of what works for the success he seeks... 🏁
That's the fun, trying to figure things out, and your tuners are awesome erik
Thank you
@Backfire. in Erik's analogy of the swingset regarding tuners, in reality, he should "time" the bullet exit as the BOTTOM of the swingset's travel and NOT when the swingset reaches it's peak and "stops." In the actual physics of the barrel vibrating [assuming that is is timed TDC in the vertical plane], you want the bullet to exit when the barrel's axis is at 0 degrees on the horizontal plane, that is crossing the ZERO point on the X-axis before it goes "negative." Regarding testing tuners, I myself have never used one, however, I do remember when Browning attempted to market their BOSS system way back when!! The assumption is that the bullet exiting above the ZERO point will throw high shots, and conversely, the bullet exiting below the ZERO point will throw low shots. Now ponder this, if your reloads are almost "identical", then theoretically the bullets are all exiting at the same point relative to this ZERO or horizontal line, and therefore you just need to adjust your sights accordingly!! AND the need for a barrel tuner diminishes.
Once Iset a 30 cal bullit on a granit surface plate that was perfectly level in all directions. Low and behold the bullit began to roll on the surface plate. I noticed that it slightly learched as it rolled. I marked the high side of the bullit with a red sharpie and rolled it again several times. the bullit always came to rest with the sharpie marh up . the bullit was out of balance. I started testing all my bullits before I load them and have found many more out of balance bullits . My groups tightend up after culling these bullits.
Out of balance will cause yaw at long range.
EC TUNER When your swinging in a swing and you jump out of the swing, make sure you jump at the right time. 😂
Good one. UA-cam's GunBlue490 also has a good video on copper fouling. "The Copper Fouling Lie ~ Don't Fall for It!"
Jim and Eric, this was a great video. Thanks for your knowledge.
I want Eric to elaborate “a whole lot, more“ on “fully resizing“.
I understand what he and others are saying about consistency, but to me and most of the people I’ve corresponded with that have reloaded since the early 1980s, Are confused and think full length resizing undoes what “fire forming“ accomplishes.
A lot of reloading companies I’ve corresponded with also agree, Eric needs to elaborate a whole lot more on this topic🤔
I think he touched upon this in an earlier video ( wish I could find it now). He states that he mostly bumps the shoulders to be consistent with the fl die. His fear is that not resizing makes the brass harder to get in and out of the chamber I believe.
Its a good brake and the tuner portion has worked well for me. Very well
Im a believer, and that's only usuing limbsaver X ring dampner. It helps control muzzle movement during lock-up time for greater accuracy and also tunes the vibration waves that affect shot grouping. These are very inexpensive but definitely work. And were talking about a $10 dollar device not these $300 dollar tuners, who knows how good they may be....
Lee says the same thing, Eric! The "soot" is like a lubricant.
Good stuff, thanks guys!!!
For the Rem 740/742/7400 shooters, you wanna keep the rails overly lubed if you want to keep the gun alive....or just keep it from breaking if you live in Washington as you're SOL on buying parts locally or online. Gotta travel!
The barrel break in is jsut like the egine break in for cars.
Your engine gets full load tested in the factory end reved to max, every professional just floors it.
Engine tolerances today are so tight you dont need it to run in. But people heard it for ages and expect the manufactures to give them a protocoll.
People hated the BOSS system from Browning due to the noise, but it worked if a person read the directions.
Still have one. 300 WM and it works great
Words of Wisdom are always worth a watch. Thanks
Thank you for this. Very informative.
I have a BOSS barrel tuner on my Browning. That rifle is 30 years old. Works great, but that means you have to shoot a lot of rounds to fine tune it. Goes against the grain today because ammo is so expensive, everybody wants a one shot zero and then go hunting…
Thank you men for the great video. - Greetings from South Africa
I put an EC tuner on an 18" Douglas SPR barrel not only did I see point of impact shift (down) after installation I shot 10 shots re zeroed to center (.4 MIL down) through a full rotation I was getting a group high and slightly right and a group low and slightly left. I split the difference and tested it and was shooting tight groups which seemed to be better than the ones at the high/low impact points. The gun shot well to begin with and I honestly haven't done enough testing to know how much (if any) the tuner has helped my barrels performance. I have hundreds of groups recorded from that rifle mostly with 77gr Black Hills so after I shoot 25-30 or so more I will know for sure.
Oh man. Thanks for sharing. Knowledge is power and better knowledge is better power!
Tuner definitely helps on 22RF took a $650 rifle to a .30 moa @100
Barrel tuners... After loading my own ammo the past 12 years, it's my experince and understanding that powder charge is really just finding the load that causes the bullet to exist at the same time the harmonic vibration reaches the end of the barrel. But a tuner would.... fine tune at the end where you can't with get under a 1/10th grain.
Great interview ! On barrel break in, does it not stand to reason that a hand lapped brux barrel wouldn't need a break in , where a production rifle the average guy buys that watches your channel , might have rougher barrel , making it a copper magnet , that needs a careful break in to smooth the rough spots before it builds enough copper to create issues ?
from the thumbnail i auto clicked thinking Erik was back on youtube. ain’t seen this dude in a while!
The king of his trade! Awesome interview!
Just a theory with those barrel tuners , much like a harmonic balancer on a engine to take out the harmonics , watch how a barrel moves in slow motion , they move quite a bit in a circular motion , i guess the tuners help to balance that motion to a point that does a consistant motion to compensate maybe for unequal barrel wall thickness....again this is just a threory , or have i missed this infomation , first time ive heard of a barrel tuner.
What a absolute interesting Video I've been reloading for 57 years and ultra cleaning My Brass ,No more ,just a great session Hope to see Him again
Great video. Thanks for all that information 👍🏼
Round 1 starts the barrel wear out process you can speed that process up with barrel break in procedure.
Hah!
I shot ARA and IR50/50 for years. I used turners on them. He's exactly right on how they tune and what the barrel is doing.
He's a World Champ because he tests things .