The thing that gets me about Sig is that they don't like to have their parts sold anywhere else. I have a Rattler. The case deflector is too small on it to reliably keep the empty cases from hitting me as a left handed shooter. A standard MCX deflector will fit the Rattler, and will definitely do a better job. However, it was years before I even had the ability to get one because Sig refused to sell it to me and nobody else had them.
In cases like that one should partner up with some one that has an MCX and order a replacement part thru them if possible using warranty. Just a thought.
@Pap deisel I can understand that Sig would be the only one making it since it is a pretty weird part. But not being able to get my hands on parts without sending the gun back to them is unacceptable. Thankfully, they now have a small parts shop on their site. It's still crap, and it's still sig controlling the parts, but it's better than it used to be.
Hungary adopted the Bren 2. The instruction manual says that the smaller port is for firing in normal conditions, the larger port is for firing in adverse conditions (like sand, jungle), and the off position is for long term storage after cleaning.
I suspect that since the company says not to use a suppressor with the gas system, that the off-position would also double as the suppressor setting, so you'd basically be shooting a suppressed bolt-gun.
I find it so odd that a few males from Hungary want to go around on every video trying to brag about this garbage rifle which is getting replaced only a few years after the contract to acquire these were signed.
@@zoltancsikos5604 What makes you think these are getting replaced? I'm in the army, it's not getting replaced. And it's not a garbage at all, the magazines we ordered are just simply shitty (not factory spec magazines)
Both piston driven 556 carbines, one has ar 15 charging handle (trash) and the other has ambi, side charging and amazing bolt hold open and release controls. Bren 2 all day every day.
For me it's going to be a Bren 2. The MCX is essentially a short stroke AR15 that's way more front heavy and sacrifices the slim profile of the original to accommodate the piston... I also can't get a proper cheekweld on that stock and find it uncomfortable in general. If I want an AR, piston or not, I'll go for an AR.
I purchased a Primary Weapons Systems .223 Wylde upper receiver for my pistol lower. It is a long stroke piston, like an AK, with an 11.85 inch barrel. The entire, complete upper was under $600 and it has a three position gas system. I absolutely love that thing and it shoots very softly and very reliably. I agree with you, if I wanted an AR, I would stick with a standard AR that I can use virtually any other upper receiver with, and with PWS making piston uppers that are available, you can have the best of both worlds.
I'm not actually surprised. Quality control issues of the past aside, Sig is making great products. The small details on the MCX are better done than they are on the Bren 2 in my opinion, so I actually agree. The exception is the Bren 2 in x39. I'm so glad someone finally had the balls to ditch antiquated AK mags and make good mags for x39.
I’m with you. I have a Bren 2Ms in 5.56. It’s a nice little rifle for that caliber. That said, unlike most people, I don’t believe it is a replacement for my SCAR17 at all and I like many things about the SCAR better (I would feel the same in either caliber scar, and yes they want too damn much for a scar). On another point, I have had plenty of experiences with the SIG’s since the very early 1990’s and for the life of me I just cannot recommend any of their products. I know it’s hit or miss with them. CZ makes good stuff that runs no matter what. These guns are for recreation, but if I needed one to save my life, I just think SIG fails consistently.
@@Colonel1Bravo how would the Bren 2 in 556 be a replacement for your scar 17 in the first place? 556 doesn't equal 308 and the Bren 2 in 308 is probably never getting to the us at this rate.
I worked hard to get my old PD to buy the Sig-P220 to replace our S&W model 19's in 1987 over the Glock and they are still using the very same weapons all these years later. You can't beat Sig for dependability even if they do cost much more and i like the positive piston gas system over direct gas operation.
The gas cuttof choice is likely a legacy option for sales to EU and former soviet military block militaries. It's used for firing rifle grenades which are still in common use. Hope this helps.
Just ordered the BREN 2 after your last video and even though you didn't choose it I am so glad I did. Something different then the standard AR look style we all have and ever since I bought my Shadow 2 then the P10c Then the Scorpion EVO 3 I had to round it out with the Bren 2. I have been waiting for 3 years since I saw the first Bren 2 and now I got one shipping my way. I just ordered it after your video the other day! Thanks for all the killer contact MAC!!!!!!!
CZ Bren 100%! I have the pistol in 7.62x39 and its superb, maybe my favorite! Gotta have the carbine version! Great video thanks for doing it! Sorry to hear about your shoulder, hope it heals quickly.
I have the 11.5 inch 5.56 version. Really love it and is growing into my favorite rifle. How's the recoil for the 7.62? I was reading one user on the forums complaining that it was sharp. I really like to eventually have a 9 inch 7.62 rifle also as well as a carbine of course although I'd personally prefer a lighter weight barrel.
biggboysouth lightest and smoothest shooting weapon in 7.62x39 i have ever shot. Zero complaints; I’m beginning to like it even more than my 5.56 guns if that means anything about recoil.
You can have the virtus, I'll take the CZ. I like the look of the handguard and like being able to get parts for it even if they discontinue it. Big fan of the Griffin sights as well, they're simple and cheap and they seem to hold up
Just got a Griffin rear BUIS for one of my rifles. Unfortunately it was missing the set screw to assemble it. Emailed them and within a couple of hours the said they'd send one out. Unfortunately that's where the US Postal Service comes in and shits on everything. It's 3 days before I get any change on the tracking number, and it's in New Jersey, not Ohio.
I bought a Sig MPX... then they came out with the Gen II, and it has limited parts compatibility with Gen I. Gen I does not deliver on the caliber swap options touted by Sig. Sig's response is to offer a reduced price for a Gen II upper. That's nice... just pay more and you'll get what they said you'd get. I resent being a test-bed for manufacturers. CZ made the Bren 805... listened to customer feedback, then released the Bren 2. That makes sense. Because they didn't deliver with the Bren 2 what they had *promised* with the Bren 1.
Considering I already have a SIG MCX, although it is the first generation model, and availability of the MCX Virtus is literally non-existent, I decided to get the CZ Bren 2. Thanks Tim for the comparison video.
Familiar does not mean better. You can always improve yourself while the virtus will always have the clumsy charging handle. I'd like to try the bren, seems even better than the scar in handling.
When one cant decide between 2 similar rifles I'd go with the import. Better possibility of being collectible down the road imo. And to Tim and others involved in MAC thank for all you do and know that you can better a person's day with your content.
@@Genesis23OPB fair enough on the point of parts availability, but with the abundance of good ar15 type rifles to shoot and own in the states I'd always go with the import.simply for collectibility. Not saying the sig is a AR I just mean theres many options for a fighting rifle is all
@@Genesis23OPB Ah I see. Ya the Swiss SAN SG 550P is the way to go over the sig 556. I believe SAN stands for Swiss Arms Newhousen. Forgive my spelling lol. Very cool to hear prices from around the world.
I am planning on getting two new rifles later this year, one is the PSA AK74 (when they finally release), and no joke the other was between the two rifles in this video. Thank you for the awesome video and valuable information presented here today. I think I will try the Sig.
@@CSmothersForge Thank you for that information. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I like to hear from people who have hand on (like yourself). If anyone else wants to share their experience below, please do so.
Siasquatch understandable when I bought mine there was like one video of the gun (Bren). But overall I’m very pleased with the Bren and being a lefty the Bren is more comfortable to operate. Because the virtus lacks a ambi bolt release so I find myself running it just like my ARs. That’s really the only gripe with the virtus
I've had my Virtus for about two years now. I can honestly say I love it. It runs flawlessly. Just double check the torque on the barrel retaining screws when you get it. The accuracy on mine was a little disappointing when I first shot it. I ran across another review that mentioned his were not to spec. When he tightened them up the accuracy improved. Mine was the same way. Groups went from 3-4 inches down to 1-1.5.
@@Siasquatch I have an 11" Bren 2 Pistol. It's absolutely amazing, and I would take it over every single other rifle on the market. It shoots as smooth as longer, heaver guns, and it's a feather weight at around 6.5 lbs with a brace and MRO
seems like the "off" position would be a great spot to drill a port tuned for your chosen suppressor. Make it the perfect suppressor host. I wish CZ would do that from factory, and hopefully someone offers an aftermarket plug at somepoint, but I think that would be a great option.
I absolutely love my Sig MCX and I’m not changing for anything. I’ve never had an issue with it, it’s super accurate with all ammunition, and most importantly mine came with backup sights before the craze of buy your own separate
So many decision from a home defense standpoint. I'm an old iron sights kinda guy and love my 20" barrel AR-15, which serve me well from 6 ft. to 600 yards. Although I have an 16" barrel M4, with scope, that's a bit more tactical, it's best suited for that 50-200 yard range. We're good on handguns, so I'm now looking for that tactical .223/5.56 and both of these fit the bill. Instead of going back and forth on the issue and driving myself crazy, I've decided to pickup both the Sig MCX Virtus and CZ Bren 2 for the reasons mentioned: my intimate familiarity for the AR platform and total unfamiliarity with CZ rifles platforms, but I've never had one reliability issue with their pistols. So what the heck. Excellent comparison video. Cheers!
I just got my FDE Virtus about 2 weeks ago. Had to hunt it down. I could not find them anywhere. I love it already. Extremely nice rifle and amazing shooter.
There are people drilling out the "OFF" gas port setting on the bren to .9mm for the pistols for a supressor setting with great success. Id be willing to try that out when replacement gas ports become available. That said ive ran a can on my 8" bren pistol with no issues whatsoever. Ejection pattern looks slightly more forward but it doesn't feel like its slamming things around inside the gun.
Yeah, not a huge shock he picked the AR. They coulda went through objective testing and the Bren 2 coulda won by miles, but it was always going to be the one that was closest to an AR.
This is exactly the video i have been wanting to see some one make. And Of course its MAC, giving the gun community what it needs when it needs it. THANKS MAC GREAT VIDEO! ......stimulus check is going towards a bren 2(not sure of barrel length yet 11, 14.5, or 16), sig mcx virtus 11" pistol, or a POF revolution 12.5" pistol......choices, choices, choices!
Depending on what you plan on using it for may help you decide what barrel length you go with. I purchased the Bren2 in 14" pistol and did a pin a weld job with a muzzle brake. I'm very satisfied with it, not to mention it's 7.62x39. I put the HB Industries trigger and the Dan Haga ACR stock adapter. Haven't shot it yet, waiting on range membership to come back approved, but I've got over 2,000 rounds of steel case ready to burn through it.
@@Hawgacydal NICE! ......yeah i have absolutely no real NEED for another gun. The hoard of them I own already covers pretty much any situation that could come up where a gun would be useful. .....IT IS A WANT AND THE PROBLEM IS .....I WANT THEM ALL!!....lmao! Thanks man for your advice i appreciate it!
@@bustabeans7917 i dont know if this helps or makes it harder. But i own a p415 10.5 inch and LOVE IT. i also own a pof renegade plus 10.5" in 300blk(my go to home defense gun) and a pof p308 they all ran flawless out of the box with alittle oil on the bcg. I like the pws mod 2, but i saw a video with iraqvet8888 with him testing the p415 and decided to buy that instead, ever since i have been a pof fan boy, Lmao, they make nice guns......i am on edge about the virtus, i like the operating system but i actually think its kinda ugly. And the fact that it is not full ambi, has me putting it last in my list. But looks are subjective, and the only reason i want full ambi controls is because i am left handed. Lol
@@bustabeans7917 no suppressor yet sorry. But no grit on the handguard no. I mean the piston system gets dirty, they all do, but it does not get out to the handguard, not on the p415. ....have you looked at lwrc? I have a lwrc ic-a5 six8 that is pretty nice as well. The only thing i dont like about the lwrc is it is barrel heavy, all piston guns are alittle bit. But the p415 feels more balanced then the lwrc, they are both 10.5 inch barrels idk how the longer barrel versions feel tho. And the lwrc has a very loud "sprong" sound in the buffer tube. But that can be mitigated by a voltor system or jp silent spring. Sorry i could not help with your suppressor questions. I will say tho, i belong to a POF facebook group, and LOTS of people on there have suppressors on their guns, i know from what they say that if you have issues with your gun when you suppress it, POF will tune the gun for you to run specific with your suppressor, pof is pretty good at taking care of there clients, lwrc as well. Ok i know that does not exactly answer your questions but i hope it helps........just reread your post you said GIRTHY not gritty. My bad, ....um no it fits my hand well, obviously its alittle bigger then the renegade plus, because it has to fit the piston system but it is VERY comfortable, and i have no issues c clamping it.
I have both just picked up the Bren 2 Carbine on Friday. I took both to the range today and after about 500 rounds down range with both I would pick the Bren.
Parts availability may not be a problem today but 5 or 6 years from now when Sig is 2 or 3 designs removed from the Virtus they won't support you at all. I have a sig556, it is very accurate an crazy reliable but Sig offers no parts and they can barely tell me anything about the gun. It came with a flash hider that is made for a suppressor but they can't tell me which one. If I can find parts they are insanely expensive. I can buy almost an entire bear creek AR for the price of a replacement stock or a rail. Just something to consider.
Hi Tim, you'd definitely want the ability to turn the gas all the way off for ownership in states like California and such. That's how I have my Adams Arms piston systems installed, with the gas turned all the way off, then you can take the piston out and you have a bolt action. This way you can use your 30 round magazines, or even 60 round drum magazines because it is a bolt action. You don't have to have bullet buttons or silly fins hanging all over the rifle. Without the piston rod installed and the gas turned off, there is no way to make it semi-auto.. and then at the same time when you are out shooting somewhere you can always use the piston, but then take it back out when you need to, like during transport, when your shooting/plinking spotters spot a patrol car coming up the highway, and what not and what have you.
Thanks for the great video MAC! I wonder if you would still prefer any sig over the CZ in 7.62... Battle of the .308s: Bren vs. 716 vs. SCAR? Hope your shoulder gets better.
intelmike181 I think the 716 is pretty dead in the market. It would probably be best to compare it to the .308 sized Mcx thing that sig is making for the new 6.8 military contract
Bren Br .308 vs Scar vs POF REVOLUTION PISTON AND D.I. VS LWRC REPR VS XCR VS NEMO ARMS .308 VS LMT MWS .308 VS .....THE KING OF THE TRAILER PARK PSA .308 FREEDOM LINE!!! .........LMAO BATTLE ROYAL!!!
@@justanotherinternetexpert7743 forgot the one that could actually win in a lot of people's minds..PWS. The most underrated of them all. PWS is that sleeper car that you didn't tgink much of.. till it smokes you on the red light.
@@TRUTHISABSOLUTE777 lmao i did forget about PWS, they are cool rifles, but i dont about smoking the rest of the list. Thats a pretty strong list i put up there. ....i also forgot KAC SR-25 ....i must have been watching dwarf porn and gun videos at the same time and got distracted again.....my bad! Lmao!
@Nicholas Rodriguez What the heck you two are talking about??? None of your crap is correct. 6,5(mm) Grendel is interchangeable with 5,56(mm) ?? 308 (7,62mm) is interchangeable with 6,5(mm) Creedmore ??? How do you interchange them, put JB Weld on a chamber? If you mean that in AR15 6,5 Grendel upper fits 5,56N lower, correct, but mags are not interchangeable. Same thing with AR10 with 308 and 6,5 Creedmore. None of these have anything to do with Bren though, it's not an AR-platform rifle.
One of my shooting friends is the armourer and procurement officer for a large police force in the UK who primarily use Sig MCX's and he's categorically said they their quality control is abysmal, to the point that in many cases the parts are not interchangeable between the guns!
Good luck on the shoulder. I’m 4 surgeries and an artificial joint in on my left shoulder, in short, it sucks. Avoid surgery if at all possible! Double, triple check your surgeon if you have to go that route. A better surgeon is worth every penny over the average Dr.
I am 2 in in left shoulder. 1st was to repair ruptured biceps tendon and torn labrum. 6 months later, still painful turns out had torn rotator cuff. Now, 8 months later, still painful surgeon wants to go in and scope it to check for damage that might need to be repaired that isn't showing up on MRI. Why 4 surgeries for you?
Richard Miller Tore the whole joint up severely when I was around 17, just dealt with it until mid 30’s when it tore for the 10-12th time separating all but 2 muscle groups. Rehabbed for a long time, no gain. Sought out a good surgeon, he botched it. Everything he connected ripped out in 24 hours leaving me in a bad place. Since I’d never even had a stitch before this I didn’t understand that he was a hack and let him repair his mistake 3 long weeks after the initial surgery. He did such a bad job that I lost most of the mobility in the shoulder and ended up with permanent searing pain, numbness, nerve damage, loss of use of hand, etc. Spent a few years searching for someone who was confident enough going in to try and fix it without risk of losing the arm- which a surgeon told me was a real possibility. Settled on a Surgeon, he went in and tried to repair the damage from the other Surgeon as well as the initial injuries. He cleaned it up and told me that it was the worst shoulder he’d ever seen, said it’d have to come out, and that he hoped he’d bought me some time. Shortly after that it needed to be replaced. 5 years on with my titanium shoulder and I still can’t use my arm very well, still have numbness, burning, freezing, intense nerve pain, loss of mobility, and an arm that is just “ dead “ sometimes. If I would’ve only found the last Surgeon first who knows how it would’ve went?
Zrexer One It’s nice to hear that you were able to avoid surgery, I’m very happy for you! Keep it strong, stretched, and mobil and hopefully you’ll never need the surgeon.
@@1AbominAble1 Damn, sounds like you've been through the ringer. I know what you mean about finding the "right" surgeon. I've had 7 neck surgeries and 2 rods, a plate, and 23 screws later I am miserable 24/7. Shooting (off bench) has been one of the only things I can now do that brings me any level of enjoyment. 7 neck surgeries, RT humerus (large upper arm bone) broke in half now has a rod running literally through the center of the bone from shoulder to elbow, 2 shoulder and biceps surgery on LT arm, and 2 lower back surgeries including large double threaded bolt/screw. Yeah, I can sympathize with you and just send prayers your way. After all that I feel "lucky." I should be either dead or a quadriplegic but by the grace of God I walk and work every day and refuse any disability. I don't look down on those that do because I don't know their story. There are people that question why I can't do certain things. When they hear my story their view is 100% different.
Richard Miller I guess we are a pair of lucky Dick’s😁 I’m also named Richard👍 I usually don’t discuss my “ ordeal “ but you had asked and it’s obvious that you understand as your about half way into being the 6 million dollar man- probably both in parts and money. With three young kids I try to make sure that they don’t see me complain about it and am just thankful that I still have the arm and the function that still has. Hunting and shooting have always been my escape, it’s extremely hard to do solo now but the boys are just old enough to go help on the hunt and are showing some interest in shooting. God bless you Sir and I hope that you can avoid any further surgery.
the "off" setting is probably made for shooting blanks during some occasions by honor guards. Pretty common in post-soviet countries, idk if you have the same in US
The off setting is also used for rifle grenades, but yeah it has no use for the American market, unless you can somehow convince California that it isn't semiautomatic. However every gas block system that I have seen for California is a replacement part as I doubt that they would allow the user to adjust to semi automatic out on the field.
Tim in the past what I've read about gas selectors being turned to the off position for two reasons. 1. For complete silence in a sniper roll, 2. Don't know if these type of grenades are used anymore but in the past they needed the full implementation of the gas to launch the grenade that was placed over the barrel.
just watching the video, you can see the brake on the Bren2, helps the Bren2 have less felt recoil, you can clearly see it around the 17:00 time mark, i want a Bren2 pretty bad, well actually i want an Robinson Armament XCR, but probably wont happen, so maybe ill sell my 2 AR's and buy this Bren2??? does anyone know how their holding up now???
Biggest issues I've got with the CZ are: * grip module (hopefully someone comes out with a replacement lower/grip area) * handguard (I know HBI makes some parts, but we need more) I ended up with the Virtus Pistol - got a screaming deal on it for $1500 in 556 11.5". Overall I'm glad I went with it instead of the CZ.
Why not test accuracy to determine which is better? Also, is there a significant weight difference (>1lb)? As for the off gas port off position on the Bren it could be for rifle grenades or suppressed single shots to be completely silent for designated marksmen (especially on the 308 version they have).
My Ruger SR762 has a gas shutoff and I use it all the time (without the suppressor). When trying load developments, just not wanting to hit the person next to me, not chasing brass or not giving away your location with flying brass(doesn't really apply to me). Most of my shooting is target shooting from a bench.
i like the option, for cases requiring extra accuracy, a broken gas tube or piston, or when there is just so much dirt that you turn it into a bolt gun, and of course, rifle grenades, although I doubt we'll ever get one in the US!
As for the CZ I thought turning off the gas was specifically for making one suppressed quiet shot? This way you dont hear the sound of the action moving when suppressed. Is that not the case for this design?
My (very limited) understanding of the purpose of an "off" setting for the gas system would be for extreme stealth when suppressed. Think of a sniper who needs to make a single shot and does not want the cycling of the action to make noise. I could be mistaken on CZ's purpose - but that is one possible explanation.
Sad to hear that your rotator cuff is hurting. Hope you heal up soon. I like the looks of that Bren, it appears to have a slight drop at comb, it looks like it would be easier to look down the top of the barrel and line up the sights. Great comparison.
I read some where that for CZ to get the Bren 2 BR into the US market they need to make a 922(r) compliant version and wait 6 month to a year for the ATF to approve shipment :(
The Sig's case deflector is weird. It's actually replaceable. An it's kind of stubby compared to an AR15. It kind of reminds me a bit of the case deflector design of the older Aero M4E1 uppers. Which had weird ejection patterns too. I think that's one of the big reasons for its inconsistency. It's definitely ejecting positively. Which is the most important thing honestly.
I love cz, but I'm not sure what they were thinking with the skinny nonreplaceable grip and small safety selector in an awkward area. It should be a little bit higher.
@@Brimwald I know the Virtus is lighter for sure, but then its entire front end's open to the elements. If your Virtus had proper QC then i wouldn't be surprised if it outshoots the Bren, but i can't be sure though
@@s00-x2h just looked it up and it's apparently not lighter according to Sig's website. The Virtus is 7.9 lbs and CZ lists the Bren at 7.3 lbs. That's 9.6 ozs difference which is significant, especially with .223 guns that already weigh more than 7 lbs.
I think the BRN180 is still another generation away from being a really good rifle. Sticking so much to the original design is cool for nostalgia factor but running the charging handle only on the right side is a bit of a negative in the majority of shooters minds. I think if they create an upper with a left side charging like the bren or FAL type and a dust cover that completely closes the action like a traditional AR it would be a much better rifle in my opinion of course.
Tim has an in with Sig. He said you can get parts, just call Sig. NOPE !!! Every time I call about any parts they say not right now, later. Them years later you call and they say we don't have any parts at all. I got burned on Sig's 551A1, 556 and 556R. Never got any parts for any of those. Sig list some basic parts on their site at crazy prices.
I was set on a mcx, went to my lgs to get it. I pulled it off the rack and was barely able to lift it high enough to put it back on the rack. Went home and ordered a sr15 mod2. Although lighter, I’m not completely impressed with it. Upper/lower fit is sloppy. Lower rattles when you shake it, without the buffer in it. The qd socket on my urx4 mlok won’t hold a sling and it had a dime sized rash on the finish by the knights logo on the mag well. Not good enough for 2300 bucks. Next ones going to be a triarc or solgw.
Tim good luck with your shoulder. I had a rotator cup tear repaired last year and its takes a long time to get back to normal. Lots of therapy. Hope it helps
It may be fudd lore but I heard that the off position for a piston operated gun was for rifle grenades and to suppress the firearm. With the gas off the action won’t cycle and you may have an increase in decibel deduction.
At $2K, I'll take the CZ Bren all day and, in fact, actually did. The Sig is nice, but it's just another AR build. The CZ offers something different and the folding stock serves to enhance that difference. More style and, with the addition of sights, is battle ready right out of the box. With the Sig, I'd always be asking myself, "Is it gonna hold up?" . I own more than one AR and enjoy shooting them. That said, if things ever went totally pear-shaped, I'd grab the Bren.
Had a Virtus, came with the barrel clamping screws out of tension spec (not 60 inch pounds) so it shot 3ft groups at 50 yards. Really, it was that bad. Called sig, they responded instantly and we got it all figured out. Then I realized that I absolutely hated that bar of soap shaped hand guard. So I sold it. Haven't thought about it much since then.
I’m a little late to the party here. But I have read that the barrels on the SIG have not been torqued to spec. I recently acquired one and the first thing I did was check the barrel screws. They were some what tight but not to spec. I didn’t shoot it first. But if people are having accuracy issues that might be why. Mine shot great. 1 moa gun with good ammo.
Great comparison video. I opted for the MCX Virtus Patrol, but the handguard is super chonky. Definitely like how that 12" handguard looks with the 16" barrel; I'm guessing it helps a bit with the weightiness out front too. Great content, thanks!
One thing you didn't cover in this video that I feel is crucial in deciding between the two. How do they 80's action movie bump/hip fire? Thanks Tim for being one of the voices of intelligent discussion in our community, yet not forgetting how to have fun in the process. Yours is one of the first channels I reccomend to new gun owners to show we as a community are welcoming, and there is a rich culture to be found.
I respect Tim's decision, but I think he chose Sig because he also uses it on CoD lol... For ~$2k, I'd personally go with the Bren 2 though. It's more reminiscent of "top tier" weapons such as the SCAR, ACR, ARX, XCR, etc. The styling of the Virtus is too AR-ish for my liking. That and the less than stellar QC compared to CZ makes it a clear choice imo.
Kevin Richard I wasn't raving about shit bruh. You can't tell me that CZ hasn't had a much better overall track record for at least the past decade... Everyone knows it. So they finally released a defective product compared to a whole list from Sig lol congrats👏
A similar rifle to the Virtus is Barrett Rec 7 Gen 2 or 3, piston operated. I have the Gen 2 but there are hardly any reviews on it. Rec 7 has a single piece piston and a 2 position gas block, suppressed or unsuppressed. I'd be curious on what you think of it if you ever get you hands on one.
I've built ARs that are lightweight, light recoiling, handy, reliable, and accurate without spending two grand. The only feature they don't have is a side-folding stock. For some people that may be a deal breaker, but since I don't shoot my carbines with their stocks folded or store them in very tight confines, I find this feature unnecessary. I wonder what PSA would charge for something similar to the Bren and Virtus.
PSA will charge $700-$800 for their upcoming JAKL which is a side folding piston rifle that uses AR lowers. I'm looking forward to it. Was supposed to be later this year but Covid might have slowed the release.
I am certainly no expert, but... If they have gas pistons, how would it gas out where the upper and lower meet? Isn't that the point of having the piston? The rod pushes the bolt back and allows the gas to escape in the hand guard. Or am I wrong?
That lack of parts availability for older models is what keeps me away from what is otherwise an amazing gun. Hopefully the aftermarket will be able to take over at some point.
Agreed. Most of the best parts for the MPX come from In Lead We Trust or Lancer. Sig has a track record of leaving shit behind or charging too much for basic parts
This may sound crazy but what if someone made a little plastic hood that would go over the ejection port on the outside an curved towards the ground just a bit to catch the gas coming out while not interfering with the ejection of the rifle? I bet it would make it a whole lot more comfortable to shoot suppressed especially if you throw a Rainer Arms charging handle on it to keep gas from coming out the back of the rifle as well. No idea if this would work but ideas are always worth a shot in my book. Keep up the great vids guys!!!
Thank you for another great review. How do these compare to the new Robinson XCR L ?? It seem they are all priced about same. What would you choose. Haha. Thx.
We need to get you a large photographer's light reflective screen bro...put it where the camera is and get rid of those shadows...hard to see detail with my old ass eyeballs---[click sir]
Tim if you want to learn how to suppress things ask UA-cam. They seem to be pretty good at suppressing a lot of things.
OMG .....HAHAHAHA! ....nice!!! Lmao!
Lol, nice one!
Shots fired....LOL
Good one lol 😆
Pew Pew!
It is time for the gauntlet, rifle addition.
CZ vs Sig. Time to show what the rifle can do
Sand tornado test AKOU style!!!
Rifle EDITION
@@Credit87 and Justin it Jordan u
The thing that gets me about Sig is that they don't like to have their parts sold anywhere else. I have a Rattler. The case deflector is too small on it to reliably keep the empty cases from hitting me as a left handed shooter. A standard MCX deflector will fit the Rattler, and will definitely do a better job. However, it was years before I even had the ability to get one because Sig refused to sell it to me and nobody else had them.
Austin Laverty if you can’t get parts the gun only serves as a collectors item
FN is about as bad with the SCAR series.
In cases like that one should partner up with some one that has an MCX and order a replacement part thru them if possible using warranty. Just a thought.
@Pap deisel I can understand that Sig would be the only one making it since it is a pretty weird part. But not being able to get my hands on parts without sending the gun back to them is unacceptable. Thankfully, they now have a small parts shop on their site. It's still crap, and it's still sig controlling the parts, but it's better than it used to be.
The p365 actually has a lot of aftermarket support building around it outside of sig, so sig isnt all bad. I dont like their business model though.
Hungary adopted the Bren 2. The instruction manual says that the smaller port is for firing in normal conditions, the larger port is for firing in adverse conditions (like sand, jungle), and the off position is for long term storage after cleaning.
I suspect that since the company says not to use a suppressor with the gas system, that the off-position would also double as the suppressor setting, so you'd basically be shooting a suppressed bolt-gun.
I thought the no gas was a legacy rifle grenade setting
I find it so odd that a few males from Hungary want to go around on every video trying to brag about this garbage rifle which is getting replaced only a few years after the contract to acquire these were signed.
@@zoltancsikos5604 What makes you think these are getting replaced? I'm in the army, it's not getting replaced. And it's not a garbage at all, the magazines we ordered are just simply shitty (not factory spec magazines)
@@zoltancsikos5604you call it garbage meanwhile it has a problem track record in Ukraine lol
Both piston driven 556 carbines, one has ar 15 charging handle (trash) and the other has ambi, side charging and amazing bolt hold open and release controls.
Bren 2 all day every day.
For me it's going to be a Bren 2. The MCX is essentially a short stroke AR15 that's way more front heavy and sacrifices the slim profile of the original to accommodate the piston... I also can't get a proper cheekweld on that stock and find it uncomfortable in general. If I want an AR, piston or not, I'll go for an AR.
I purchased a Primary Weapons Systems .223 Wylde upper receiver for my pistol lower. It is a long stroke piston, like an AK, with an 11.85 inch barrel. The entire, complete upper was under $600 and it has a three position gas system. I absolutely love that thing and it shoots very softly and very reliably. I agree with you, if I wanted an AR, I would stick with a standard AR that I can use virtually any other upper receiver with, and with PWS making piston uppers that are available, you can have the best of both worlds.
Wow. MAC picked another sig?! Anyone else feel like Tim picking a Sig over the Bren 2 is another sign that 2020 is bringing the apocalypse?
I'm not actually surprised. Quality control issues of the past aside, Sig is making great products. The small details on the MCX are better done than they are on the Bren 2 in my opinion, so I actually agree. The exception is the Bren 2 in x39. I'm so glad someone finally had the balls to ditch antiquated AK mags and make good mags for x39.
I’m with you. I have a Bren 2Ms in 5.56. It’s a nice little rifle for that caliber. That said, unlike most people, I don’t believe it is a replacement for my SCAR17 at all and I like many things about the SCAR better (I would feel the same in either caliber scar, and yes they want too damn much for a scar). On another point, I have had plenty of experiences with the SIG’s since the very early 1990’s and for the life of me I just cannot recommend any of their products. I know it’s hit or miss with them. CZ makes good stuff that runs no matter what. These guns are for recreation, but if I needed one to save my life, I just think SIG fails consistently.
To be fair, the SIG is as close as you can get to an AR15 without being an AR15...
@@vocenoctum2046 Yes. Which begs the question: what makes an AR and AR, and when does it stop being an AR? 🤔
@@Colonel1Bravo how would the Bren 2 in 556 be a replacement for your scar 17 in the first place? 556 doesn't equal 308 and the Bren 2 in 308 is probably never getting to the us at this rate.
For a second I thought the title said “bren VS. Virus” lmao
Hahahahaha!
I did AR vs Virus, didn't go over as well as I'd hoped. :)
I worked hard to get my old PD to buy the Sig-P220 to replace our S&W model 19's in 1987 over the Glock and they are still using the very same weapons all these years later. You can't beat Sig for dependability even if they do cost much more and i like the positive piston gas system over direct gas operation.
The old sig is not the same as the current sig!
The gas cuttof choice is likely a legacy option for sales to EU and former soviet military block militaries. It's used for firing rifle grenades which are still in common use. Hope this helps.
Just ordered the BREN 2 after your last video and even though you didn't choose it I am so glad I did. Something different then the standard AR look style we all have and ever since I bought my Shadow 2 then the P10c Then the Scorpion EVO 3 I had to round it out with the Bren 2. I have been waiting for 3 years since I saw the first Bren 2 and now I got one shipping my way. I just ordered it after your video the other day! Thanks for all the killer contact MAC!!!!!!!
I went with the Bren 2 as well. I have 2 Virtus and 2 Bren 2 . Love them both. I'm happy the Bren 2 has the heavy barrel.
@StonerAR10 do you think the heavy barrel helps it shoot softer ? I just picked one up ,and was a little concerned with the balance .
CZ Bren 100%! I have the pistol in 7.62x39 and its superb, maybe my favorite! Gotta have the carbine version! Great video thanks for doing it! Sorry to hear about your shoulder, hope it heals quickly.
I have the 11.5 inch 5.56 version. Really love it and is growing into my favorite rifle. How's the recoil for the 7.62? I was reading one user on the forums complaining that it was sharp. I really like to eventually have a 9 inch 7.62 rifle also as well as a carbine of course although I'd personally prefer a lighter weight barrel.
Does yours get pretty hot?
biggboy I have a zhukov stock with dan Haga insert and a double star brace (aluminum) and it bruised me and my son pretty good lol.
biggboysouth lightest and smoothest shooting weapon in 7.62x39 i have ever shot. Zero complaints; I’m beginning to like it even more than my 5.56 guns if that means anything about recoil.
James Hall no but i have only put about 120 rounds down range in any one sitting.
You can have the virtus, I'll take the CZ. I like the look of the handguard and like being able to get parts for it even if they discontinue it. Big fan of the Griffin sights as well, they're simple and cheap and they seem to hold up
Just got a Griffin rear BUIS for one of my rifles. Unfortunately it was missing the set screw to assemble it. Emailed them and within a couple of hours the said they'd send one out. Unfortunately that's where the US Postal Service comes in and shits on everything. It's 3 days before I get any change on the tracking number, and it's in New Jersey, not Ohio.
The off gas position is designed for suppressed shooting when you don’t want the added noise of the bolt cycling.
@Fui Gebhardt1 Mall ninja-esque or not, it's probably gonna sell some guns for them.
My guess is for riflegrenades.
@@kalapuikko666 See I thought that too....then I thought, "who still uses those?"
@@fubar1217 French use rifle grenades on their 14,5" HK416.
I bought a Sig MPX... then they came out with the Gen II, and it has limited parts compatibility with Gen I. Gen I does not deliver on the caliber swap options touted by Sig. Sig's response is to offer a reduced price for a Gen II upper. That's nice... just pay more and you'll get what they said you'd get.
I resent being a test-bed for manufacturers.
CZ made the Bren 805... listened to customer feedback, then released the Bren 2. That makes sense. Because they didn't deliver with the Bren 2 what they had *promised* with the Bren 1.
Competing for my dollar? I’m over here waiting for PSA blem build kit to drop below $399
😂i feel
That might be risky considering prices starting to rise on ammo and such.
Same, i don’t understand who can afford to throw $2000+ at these guns. i would rather get cheap AR-15s and cheap military surplus rifles.
@@HandGrenadeATmine lol broke af
Even if I had 10million in the bank I wouldn't drop 2k on these rifles.
Considering I already have a SIG MCX, although it is the first generation model, and availability of the MCX Virtus is literally non-existent, I decided to get the CZ Bren 2. Thanks Tim for the comparison video.
Familiar does not mean better. You can always improve yourself while the virtus will always have the clumsy charging handle. I'd like to try the bren, seems even better than the scar in handling.
When one cant decide between 2 similar rifles I'd go with the import. Better possibility of being collectible down the road imo. And to Tim and others involved in MAC thank for all you do and know that you can better a person's day with your content.
Genesis23OPB I'd love to get my hand on an APC223 but it costs 3k plus here in Italy unfortunately. Looks sick tho!
@@Genesis23OPB fair enough on the point of parts availability, but with the abundance of good ar15 type rifles to shoot and own in the states I'd always go with the import.simply for collectibility. Not saying the sig is a AR I just mean theres many options for a fighting rifle is all
Aren't they both imports?
@@Genesis23OPB Are the Swiss SG556 commanding a premium as they are in the states? They fetch around 3500.00 usd
@@Genesis23OPB Ah I see. Ya the Swiss SAN SG 550P is the way to go over the sig 556. I believe SAN stands for Swiss Arms Newhousen. Forgive my spelling lol. Very cool to hear prices from around the world.
I am planning on getting two new rifles later this year, one is the PSA AK74 (when they finally release), and no joke the other was between the two rifles in this video. Thank you for the awesome video and valuable information presented here today. I think I will try the Sig.
I’m rifle configuration I like the virtus. But in pistol, I usually pick my Bren over my virtus pistol
@@CSmothersForge Thank you for that information. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I like to hear from people who have hand on (like yourself). If anyone else wants to share their experience below, please do so.
Siasquatch understandable when I bought mine there was like one video of the gun (Bren). But overall I’m very pleased with the Bren and being a lefty the Bren is more comfortable to operate. Because the virtus lacks a ambi bolt release so I find myself running it just like my ARs. That’s really the only gripe with the virtus
I've had my Virtus for about two years now. I can honestly say I love it. It runs flawlessly. Just double check the torque on the barrel retaining screws when you get it. The accuracy on mine was a little disappointing when I first shot it. I ran across another review that mentioned his were not to spec. When he tightened them up the accuracy improved. Mine was the same way. Groups went from 3-4 inches down to 1-1.5.
@@Siasquatch I have an 11" Bren 2 Pistol. It's absolutely amazing, and I would take it over every single other rifle on the market. It shoots as smooth as longer, heaver guns, and it's a feather weight at around 6.5 lbs with a brace and MRO
seems like the "off" position would be a great spot to drill a port tuned for your chosen suppressor. Make it the perfect suppressor host. I wish CZ would do that from factory, and hopefully someone offers an aftermarket plug at somepoint, but I think that would be a great option.
My thoughts exactly. As long as you can readily snag a new gas valve on the off chance you screw it up that would be the perfect solution.
How's the 11in pistol do with the can?
HB Industries offers exactly this service now. They will drill your plug with a suppressor-tuned port size.
I would love to see an Accuracy test of the Bren 2.
I absolutely love my Sig MCX and I’m not changing for anything. I’ve never had an issue with it, it’s super accurate with all ammunition, and most importantly mine came with backup sights before the craze of buy your own separate
Was able to get a Bren2 14" pistol before the pandemic prices hit. Love it!!!
Going with a brace or sbr?
LOL. Tim suffers from "battered Sig owner syndrome." He just can't help himself even after all the lemons he's gotten from Sig.
Lol
Plain and simple, Sig Arms = JUNK
You're so right. He's a fan boy because, "Sig" !
Also in this thread "a broken clock can't even be right twice a day!"
All my Sigs work flawlessly. I guess it's the luck of the draw.
So many decision from a home defense standpoint. I'm an old iron sights kinda guy and love my 20" barrel AR-15, which serve me well from 6 ft. to 600 yards. Although I have an 16" barrel M4, with scope, that's a bit more tactical, it's best suited for that 50-200 yard range. We're good on handguns, so I'm now looking for that tactical .223/5.56 and both of these fit the bill. Instead of going back and forth on the issue and driving myself crazy, I've decided to pickup both the Sig MCX Virtus and CZ Bren 2 for the reasons mentioned: my intimate familiarity for the AR platform and total unfamiliarity with CZ rifles platforms, but I've never had one reliability issue with their pistols. So what the heck. Excellent comparison video. Cheers!
Bren 2
My Sig MCX Virtus is my go to rifle! Love it! Have .300 BLK and 5.56 barrels.
I just got my FDE Virtus about 2 weeks ago. Had to hunt it down. I could not find them anywhere. I love it already. Extremely nice rifle and amazing shooter.
I never shot either but I like how the Bren looks.
yeah idk what hes talking about it being ugly. the gun is absolutely gorgeous. i love mine to death. its the only rifle i shoot now
There are people drilling out the "OFF" gas port setting on the bren to .9mm for the pistols for a supressor setting with great success. Id be willing to try that out when replacement gas ports become available. That said ive ran a can on my 8" bren pistol with no issues whatsoever. Ejection pattern looks slightly more forward but it doesn't feel like its slamming things around inside the gun.
I'm 1:05 in and hes gonna pick the Virtus
Yeah, not a huge shock he picked the AR. They coulda went through objective testing and the Bren 2 coulda won by miles, but it was always going to be the one that was closest to an AR.
This is exactly the video i have been wanting to see some one make. And Of course its MAC, giving the gun community what it needs when it needs it. THANKS MAC GREAT VIDEO! ......stimulus check is going towards a bren 2(not sure of barrel length yet 11, 14.5, or 16), sig mcx virtus 11" pistol, or a POF revolution 12.5" pistol......choices, choices, choices!
Depending on what you plan on using it for may help you decide what barrel length you go with. I purchased the Bren2 in 14" pistol and did a pin a weld job with a muzzle brake. I'm very satisfied with it, not to mention it's 7.62x39. I put the HB Industries trigger and the Dan Haga ACR stock adapter. Haven't shot it yet, waiting on range membership to come back approved, but I've got over 2,000 rounds of steel case ready to burn through it.
@@Hawgacydal NICE! ......yeah i have absolutely no real NEED for another gun. The hoard of them I own already covers pretty much any situation that could come up where a gun would be useful. .....IT IS A WANT AND THE PROBLEM IS .....I WANT THEM ALL!!....lmao! Thanks man for your advice i appreciate it!
@@bustabeans7917 i dont know if this helps or makes it harder. But i own a p415 10.5 inch and LOVE IT. i also own a pof renegade plus 10.5" in 300blk(my go to home defense gun) and a pof p308 they all ran flawless out of the box with alittle oil on the bcg. I like the pws mod 2, but i saw a video with iraqvet8888 with him testing the p415 and decided to buy that instead, ever since i have been a pof fan boy, Lmao, they make nice guns......i am on edge about the virtus, i like the operating system but i actually think its kinda ugly. And the fact that it is not full ambi, has me putting it last in my list. But looks are subjective, and the only reason i want full ambi controls is because i am left handed. Lol
@@bustabeans7917 no suppressor yet sorry. But no grit on the handguard no. I mean the piston system gets dirty, they all do, but it does not get out to the handguard, not on the p415. ....have you looked at lwrc? I have a lwrc ic-a5 six8 that is pretty nice as well. The only thing i dont like about the lwrc is it is barrel heavy, all piston guns are alittle bit. But the p415 feels more balanced then the lwrc, they are both 10.5 inch barrels idk how the longer barrel versions feel tho. And the lwrc has a very loud "sprong" sound in the buffer tube. But that can be mitigated by a voltor system or jp silent spring. Sorry i could not help with your suppressor questions. I will say tho, i belong to a POF facebook group, and LOTS of people on there have suppressors on their guns, i know from what they say that if you have issues with your gun when you suppress it, POF will tune the gun for you to run specific with your suppressor, pof is pretty good at taking care of there clients, lwrc as well. Ok i know that does not exactly answer your questions but i hope it helps........just reread your post you said GIRTHY not gritty. My bad, ....um no it fits my hand well, obviously its alittle bigger then the renegade plus, because it has to fit the piston system but it is VERY comfortable, and i have no issues c clamping it.
@@Hawgacydal Which Muzzle brake did you used for your Bren 2 ?
I have both just picked up the Bren 2 Carbine on Friday. I took both to the range today and after about 500 rounds down range with both I would pick the Bren.
How did you get yours? did you order directly from cz?
@@kurtkenehan8017 I picked it up on Gun Broker one of the first ones that was listed.
Parts availability may not be a problem today but 5 or 6 years from now when Sig is 2 or 3 designs removed from the Virtus they won't support you at all. I have a sig556, it is very accurate an crazy reliable but Sig offers no parts and they can barely tell me anything about the gun. It came with a flash hider that is made for a suppressor but they can't tell me which one. If I can find parts they are insanely expensive. I can buy almost an entire bear creek AR for the price of a replacement stock or a rail. Just something to consider.
Hi Tim, you'd definitely want the ability to turn the gas all the way off for ownership in states like California and such. That's how I have my Adams Arms piston systems installed, with the gas turned all the way off, then you can take the piston out and you have a bolt action. This way you can use your 30 round magazines, or even 60 round drum magazines because it is a bolt action. You don't have to have bullet buttons or silly fins hanging all over the rifle. Without the piston rod installed and the gas turned off, there is no way to make it semi-auto.. and then at the same time when you are out shooting somewhere you can always use the piston, but then take it back out when you need to, like during transport, when your shooting/plinking spotters spot a patrol car coming up the highway, and what not and what have you.
Thanks for the great video MAC! I wonder if you would still prefer any sig over the CZ in 7.62...
Battle of the .308s: Bren vs. 716 vs. SCAR?
Hope your shoulder gets better.
intelmike181 I think the 716 is pretty dead in the market. It would probably be best to compare it to the .308 sized Mcx thing that sig is making for the new 6.8 military contract
Bren Br .308 vs Scar vs POF REVOLUTION PISTON AND D.I. VS LWRC REPR VS XCR VS NEMO ARMS .308 VS LMT MWS .308 VS .....THE KING OF THE TRAILER PARK PSA .308 FREEDOM LINE!!! .........LMAO BATTLE ROYAL!!!
Can't compare a 308 bren when it doesn't exist in the civilian market. Easily my biggest problem with CZ. They been hyping it for years.
@@justanotherinternetexpert7743 forgot the one that could actually win in a lot of people's minds..PWS. The most underrated of them all. PWS is that sleeper car that you didn't tgink much of.. till it smokes you on the red light.
@@TRUTHISABSOLUTE777 lmao i did forget about PWS, they are cool rifles, but i dont about smoking the rest of the list. Thats a pretty strong list i put up there. ....i also forgot KAC SR-25 ....i must have been watching dwarf porn and gun videos at the same time and got distracted again.....my bad! Lmao!
Need a Bren in 6.5 Grendel.
So much this.
Indeed a 6.5 grendel pistol format.
.308
308 and Grendel are interchange.
@Nicholas Rodriguez What the heck you two are talking about??? None of your crap is correct. 6,5(mm) Grendel is interchangeable with 5,56(mm) ?? 308 (7,62mm) is interchangeable with 6,5(mm) Creedmore ??? How do you interchange them, put JB Weld on a chamber?
If you mean that in AR15 6,5 Grendel upper fits 5,56N lower, correct, but mags are not interchangeable. Same thing with AR10 with 308 and 6,5 Creedmore. None of these have anything to do with Bren though, it's not an AR-platform rifle.
great info
Awesome versus video. I like the CZ BERN 2Ms myself. Hope your shoulder gets better, Tim MAC for Life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One of my shooting friends is the armourer and procurement officer for a large police force in the UK who primarily use Sig MCX's and he's categorically said they their quality control is abysmal, to the point that in many cases the parts are not interchangeable between the guns!
You are on top of it Mac. I was looking forward to this. Thanks
Good luck on the shoulder. I’m 4 surgeries and an artificial joint in on my left shoulder, in short, it sucks. Avoid surgery if at all possible! Double, triple check your surgeon if you have to go that route. A better surgeon is worth every penny over the average Dr.
I am 2 in in left shoulder. 1st was to repair ruptured biceps tendon and torn labrum. 6 months later, still painful turns out had torn rotator cuff. Now, 8 months later, still painful surgeon wants to go in and scope it to check for damage that might need to be repaired that isn't showing up on MRI.
Why 4 surgeries for you?
Richard Miller
Tore the whole joint up severely when I was around 17, just dealt with it until mid 30’s when it tore for the 10-12th time separating all but 2 muscle groups. Rehabbed for a long time, no gain. Sought out a good surgeon, he botched it. Everything he connected ripped out in 24 hours leaving me in a bad place. Since I’d never even had a stitch before this I didn’t understand that he was a hack and let him repair his mistake 3 long weeks after the initial surgery. He did such a bad job that I lost most of the mobility in the shoulder and ended up with permanent searing pain, numbness, nerve damage, loss of use of hand, etc. Spent a few years searching for someone who was confident enough going in to try and fix it without risk of losing the arm- which a surgeon told me was a real possibility. Settled on a Surgeon, he went in and tried to repair the damage from the other Surgeon as well as the initial injuries. He cleaned it up and told me that it was the worst shoulder he’d ever seen, said it’d have to come out, and that he hoped he’d bought me some time. Shortly after that it needed to be replaced. 5 years on with my titanium shoulder and I still can’t use my arm very well, still have numbness, burning, freezing, intense nerve pain, loss of mobility, and an arm that is just “ dead “ sometimes. If I would’ve only found the last Surgeon first who knows how it would’ve went?
Zrexer One It’s nice to hear that you were able to avoid surgery, I’m very happy for you! Keep it strong, stretched, and mobil and hopefully you’ll never need the surgeon.
@@1AbominAble1 Damn, sounds like you've been through the ringer. I know what you mean about finding the "right" surgeon. I've had 7 neck surgeries and 2 rods, a plate, and 23 screws later I am miserable 24/7. Shooting (off bench) has been one of the only things I can now do that brings me any level of enjoyment. 7 neck surgeries, RT humerus (large upper arm bone) broke in half now has a rod running literally through the center of the bone from shoulder to elbow, 2 shoulder and biceps surgery on LT arm, and 2 lower back surgeries including large double threaded bolt/screw. Yeah, I can sympathize with you and just send prayers your way. After all that I feel "lucky." I should be either dead or a quadriplegic but by the grace of God I walk and work every day and refuse any disability. I don't look down on those that do because I don't know their story. There are people that question why I can't do certain things. When they hear my story their view is 100% different.
Richard Miller I guess we are a pair of lucky Dick’s😁 I’m also named Richard👍 I usually don’t discuss my “ ordeal “ but you had asked and it’s obvious that you understand as your about half way into being the 6 million dollar man- probably both in parts and money. With three young kids I try to make sure that they don’t see me complain about it and am just thankful that I still have the arm and the function that still has. Hunting and shooting have always been my escape, it’s extremely hard to do solo now but the boys are just old enough to go help on the hunt and are showing some interest in shooting. God bless you Sir and I hope that you can avoid any further surgery.
the "off" setting is probably made for shooting blanks during some occasions by honor guards. Pretty common in post-soviet countries, idk if you have the same in US
The off setting is also used for rifle grenades, but yeah it has no use for the American market, unless you can somehow convince California that it isn't semiautomatic. However every gas block system that I have seen for California is a replacement part as I doubt that they would allow the user to adjust to semi automatic out on the field.
Tim in the past what I've read about gas selectors being turned to the off position for two reasons. 1. For complete silence in a sniper roll, 2. Don't know if these type of grenades are used anymore but in the past they needed the full implementation of the gas to launch the grenade that was placed over the barrel.
Would have been nice to compare accuracy. That's one of my top requirements for a full length rifle.
I'm surprised he didn't. That would clearly separate one over the other.
Would be nice to see the B&T APC223 in the mix too
Suppressing the Virtus is going to give you a different gas experience than suppressing your original MCX. Would love to see you do a comparison video
The fact that they’re both comparable to each other is awesome, I see no downside to two
Awesome rifles being readily available
just watching the video, you can see the brake on the Bren2, helps the Bren2 have less felt recoil, you can clearly see it around the 17:00 time mark, i want a Bren2 pretty bad, well actually i want an Robinson Armament XCR, but probably wont happen, so maybe ill sell my 2 AR's and buy this Bren2??? does anyone know how their holding up now???
Bren for me. It's different enough from the AR to make it interesting.
Biggest issues I've got with the CZ are:
* grip module (hopefully someone comes out with a replacement lower/grip area)
* handguard (I know HBI makes some parts, but we need more)
I ended up with the Virtus Pistol - got a screaming deal on it for $1500 in 556 11.5". Overall I'm glad I went with it instead of the CZ.
It seems at this point it’s down to preference. Which is fine, I’m glad 2 reliable, accurate and well made rifles are available
Bren calls to me. Virtus also calls to me, But at a decibel or two lower volume
What's the vs. of the MCX and HK416 or MR555?
Why not test accuracy to determine which is better? Also, is there a significant weight difference (>1lb)? As for the off gas port off position on the Bren it could be for rifle grenades or suppressed single shots to be completely silent for designated marksmen (especially on the 308 version they have).
How long will it take for HB Industries to make foregrips and pistol grip backstraps for the CZ?
Off position on Bren 2 possibly a holdover for use with rifle grenades?
That is what I was thinking.
that
Could you drill/EDM the off position a hole configured for suppression once people figure out a proper port size ?
My Ruger SR762 has a gas shutoff and I use it all the time (without the suppressor). When trying load developments, just not wanting to hit the person next to me, not chasing brass or not giving away your location with flying brass(doesn't really apply to me). Most of my shooting is target shooting from a bench.
i like the option, for cases requiring extra accuracy, a broken gas tube or piston, or when there is just so much dirt that you turn it into a bolt gun, and of course, rifle grenades, although I doubt we'll ever get one in the US!
As for the CZ I thought turning off the gas was specifically for making one suppressed quiet shot? This way you dont hear the sound of the action moving when suppressed. Is that not the case for this design?
probably, but who would actually use that?
@@s00-x2h doesn't matter, nice to have the option. Also why are you replying to yourself?
@@s00-x2h a hunter or just people who want to have a really quiet shot. This would be similar to a bolt action set up.
@@firestorm165 read the names lol
@@s00-x2h that was a joke lol
My (very limited) understanding of the purpose of an "off" setting for the gas system would be for extreme stealth when suppressed. Think of a sniper who needs to make a single shot and does not want the cycling of the action to make noise. I could be mistaken on CZ's purpose - but that is one possible explanation.
Military rifles often come with gas cut-offs for the purpose of launching rifle grenades, not sniping.
Bren2 762.39 i love .30cal and ill feed it steel all day. When I get it lol
Sad to hear that your rotator cuff is hurting. Hope you heal up soon.
I like the looks of that Bren, it appears to have a slight drop at comb, it looks like it would be easier to look down the top of the barrel and line up the sights. Great comparison.
MAC I remember on your ACR vs SCAR 16 video, you chose the ACR. So how would you rate the Bren 2 vs the ACR or SCAR 16?
He's already said the Bren 2 is miles ahead of the scar 16 and a much better buy
@@Russianmafia10 Not surprised at all. It's hard to come up with a reason to fork over $3K unless you're a FN fanboy.
I don't get why people complain about the look of the Bren 2. Great looking rifle in my opinion.
The handguard just look kinda clunky compared to the pistol versions
I read some where that for CZ to get the Bren 2 BR into the US market they need to make a 922(r) compliant version and wait 6 month to a year for the ATF to approve shipment :(
This is my favourite "Go to" firearms channel 👍
I have a SIG MPX but the quality comment helped me decide to go with BCM for my next AR.
As a lefty I'll take the Bren
Virtus has very erratic ejection. Bren 2 seems very consistent by comparison. Sign of trouble to come possibly?
The Sig's case deflector is weird. It's actually replaceable. An it's kind of stubby compared to an AR15. It kind of reminds me a bit of the case deflector design of the older Aero M4E1 uppers. Which had weird ejection patterns too. I think that's one of the big reasons for its inconsistency. It's definitely ejecting positively. Which is the most important thing honestly.
I love cz, but I'm not sure what they were thinking with the skinny nonreplaceable grip and small safety selector in an awkward area. It should be a little bit higher.
If I remember right sig just about always seems to bite Mac
Never-ending he mentioned it
So basically it's a tie. Question: Is either sub-moa capable and which is more accurate? That would break the tie for me.
That and which one is lighter.
@@Brimwald I know the Virtus is lighter for sure, but then its entire front end's open to the elements. If your Virtus had proper QC then i wouldn't be surprised if it outshoots the Bren, but i can't be sure though
Actually the bren 2 is the lighter of the two on a scale
@@s00-x2h just looked it up and it's apparently not lighter according to Sig's website. The Virtus is 7.9 lbs and CZ lists the Bren at 7.3 lbs. That's 9.6 ozs difference which is significant, especially with .223 guns that already weigh more than 7 lbs.
oh shit... sorry guys
I would have liked to see the BRN-180 compared to both of these.
I think the BRN180 is still another generation away from being a really good rifle. Sticking so much to the original design is cool for nostalgia factor but running the charging handle only on the right side is a bit of a negative in the majority of shooters minds. I think if they create an upper with a left side charging like the bren or FAL type and a dust cover that completely closes the action like a traditional AR it would be a much better rifle in my opinion of course.
Tim has an in with Sig. He said you can get parts, just call Sig. NOPE !!! Every time I call about any parts they say not right now, later. Them years later you call and they say we don't have any parts at all. I got burned on Sig's 551A1, 556 and 556R. Never got any parts for any of those. Sig list some basic parts on their site at crazy prices.
I live 5 minutes from sig and I don’t own a single one
I was set on a mcx, went to my lgs to get it. I pulled it off the rack and was barely able to lift it high enough to put it back on the rack. Went home and ordered a sr15 mod2. Although lighter, I’m not completely impressed with it. Upper/lower fit is sloppy. Lower rattles when you shake it, without the buffer in it. The qd socket on my urx4 mlok won’t hold a sling and it had a dime sized rash on the finish by the knights logo on the mag well. Not good enough for 2300 bucks. Next ones going to be a triarc or solgw.
Tim good luck with your shoulder. I had a rotator cup tear repaired last year and its takes a long time to get back to normal. Lots of therapy. Hope it helps
It may be fudd lore but I heard that the off position for a piston operated gun was for rifle grenades and to suppress the firearm. With the gas off the action won’t cycle and you may have an increase in decibel deduction.
At $2K, I'll take the CZ Bren all day and, in fact, actually did. The Sig is nice, but it's just another AR build. The CZ offers something different and the folding stock serves to enhance that difference. More style and, with the addition of sights, is battle ready right out of the box. With the Sig, I'd always be asking myself, "Is it gonna hold up?" . I own more than one AR and enjoy shooting them. That said, if things ever went totally pear-shaped, I'd grab the Bren.
Had a Virtus, came with the barrel clamping screws out of tension spec (not 60 inch pounds) so it shot 3ft groups at 50 yards. Really, it was that bad. Called sig, they responded instantly and we got it all figured out. Then I realized that I absolutely hated that bar of soap shaped hand guard. So I sold it. Haven't thought about it much since then.
XCR-L, Like these 2 rifles but better
Prefer the layout of the Bren 2. Wouldn't want give Sig any more of my money.
Am I the only one that thinks the Bren 2Ms looks like the ACR.
its like a mix of the scar and an ACR to me. ya
It does and that's why i kinda died inside when he said it looked ugly...
@@quinngilbert4996 same i thought it looked awesome until he brought it up
Wait til you put an ACR stock on the Bren!
I’m a little late to the party here. But I have read that the barrels on the SIG have not been torqued to spec. I recently acquired one and the first thing I did was check the barrel screws. They were some what tight but not to spec. I didn’t shoot it first. But if people are having accuracy issues that might be why. Mine shot great. 1 moa gun with good ammo.
I have been trying to find out. Is the CZ Bren 2 carbine sub MOA accurate? How accurate is the carbine?
Great comparison video. I opted for the MCX Virtus Patrol, but the handguard is super chonky. Definitely like how that 12" handguard looks with the 16" barrel; I'm guessing it helps a bit with the weightiness out front too. Great content, thanks!
One thing you didn't cover in this video that I feel is crucial in deciding between the two.
How do they 80's action movie bump/hip fire?
Thanks Tim for being one of the voices of intelligent discussion in our community, yet not forgetting how to have fun in the process. Yours is one of the first channels I reccomend to new gun owners to show we as a community are welcoming, and there is a rich culture to be found.
Check out his CZ Bren 2 review video. He bumpfired it and it looked amazing. He was giggling with happiness.
I respect Tim's decision, but I think he chose Sig because he also uses it on CoD lol... For ~$2k, I'd personally go with the Bren 2 though. It's more reminiscent of "top tier" weapons such as the SCAR, ACR, ARX, XCR, etc. The styling of the Virtus is too AR-ish for my liking. That and the less than stellar QC compared to CZ makes it a clear choice imo.
I like the M13 when it comes to the .300 BO mag and stock barrel and LW suppressor. But my all tim favorite AR is the GRAU 556/SG 553.
Lol this comment didn't age well. All these current Bren 2 owners with their broken extractors from the factory 😂
Kevin Richard All? You mean the ones who should've stuck to AKs/VZs for 7.62x39 and bought the 5.56 model instead? Lol
@@StarCypher lmao bro you can't rave about czs QC and then when called out say ya well they should have bought something else
Kevin Richard I wasn't raving about shit bruh. You can't tell me that CZ hasn't had a much better overall track record for at least the past decade... Everyone knows it. So they finally released a defective product compared to a whole list from Sig lol congrats👏
I agree, if an Ar-15ish rifle has a gas piston it might as well have a forward charging handle, Adcor-style.
Please do a review on the Sig 516!
How do you like those Surefeed E2 mags?
IMO
Bren for the Win
A similar rifle to the Virtus is Barrett Rec 7 Gen 2 or 3, piston operated. I have the Gen 2 but there are hardly any reviews on it. Rec 7 has a single piece piston and a 2 position gas block, suppressed or unsuppressed. I'd be curious on what you think of it if you ever get you hands on one.
I've built ARs that are lightweight, light recoiling, handy, reliable, and accurate without spending two grand. The only feature they don't have is a side-folding stock. For some people that may be a deal breaker, but since I don't shoot my carbines with their stocks folded or store them in very tight confines, I find this feature unnecessary. I wonder what PSA would charge for something similar to the Bren and Virtus.
PSA will charge $700-$800 for their upcoming JAKL which is a side folding piston rifle that uses AR lowers. I'm looking forward to it. Was supposed to be later this year but Covid might have slowed the release.
@@Brimwald So why are other companies hosing us? Are they three times as good?
I am certainly no expert, but... If they have gas pistons, how would it gas out where the upper and lower meet? Isn't that the point of having the piston? The rod pushes the bolt back and allows the gas to escape in the hand guard. Or am I wrong?
That lack of parts availability for older models is what keeps me away from what is otherwise an amazing gun. Hopefully the aftermarket will be able to take over at some point.
Agreed. Most of the best parts for the MPX come from In Lead We Trust or Lancer. Sig has a track record of leaving shit behind or charging too much for basic parts
This may sound crazy but what if someone made a little plastic hood that would go over the ejection port on the outside an curved towards the ground just a bit to catch the gas coming out while not interfering with the ejection of the rifle? I bet it would make it a whole lot more comfortable to shoot suppressed especially if you throw a Rainer Arms charging handle on it to keep gas from coming out the back of the rifle as well. No idea if this would work but ideas are always worth a shot in my book. Keep up the great vids guys!!!
Thank you for another great review.
How do these compare to the new Robinson XCR L ?? It seem they are all priced about same. What would you choose. Haha. Thx.
Love my xcr-l , very nice guns
In watching you shoot booth..... You seem to shoot the Bren 2 better with less recoil also! I vote for the "BREN 2" for you and for me.... LOL. 👏😎👍
We need to get you a large photographer's light reflective screen bro...put it where the camera is and get rid of those shadows...hard to see detail with my old ass eyeballs---[click sir]
They need to add the Bren 2 and Scorpion to War Zone!
Yeah true. They have the mcx virtus and rattler depending on configuration.
I complete[y agree with your comment about small diameter handguards.... some almost make an AR look like a muzzle loader.