Term Starts June 3rd: thinkspace.ac.uk/courses/bootcamp-orchestral-composition/ 8-weeks of tuition, live webinars, and personal feedback on your work from professional orchestral composers.
This is great, im studying full time, with lots of online workshops and masterclases, so timing is important,whats the schedule for the live sessions for this workshop?
Excellent vid Guy! I realized it was time for me to break away from the bad habit of block chording my strings using ensemble patches. My arrangements have greatly improved because of it.
I've just realised the same. I make electronic music with orchestral elements and have only just now realised that I rely on block chords in the string section far too much. Thanks to this vid, I've only just learned what block chords are.
Thank you Guy, that has opened my eyes to getting a much better string arrangement, even though it's on "twee" little tracks that no one is likely to hear. As all my stuff has been rejected so far, but I will keep writing. They say if you keep throwing enough stuff at the wall something at some point is going to stick......
I am researching becoming a composer after playing and writing for 30 yrs. Composing is where my heart has always been. Thank you for this video...awesome!
I use the chords, duplicate and edit techniques quite a lot. Very fast and it works. I generally then delete the original chord track, which creates so much space in the composition to work in. I also often then forget the original progression!
great video tutorial Guy. Far too often "midi scores" are made by keyboardists that paly their string parts like a piano. Then blame the samples because it doesn't sound "real". The samples are present today to make a realistic mock up and then some. What's lacking are the skills. You provide the latter. Folks take Guy's courses and watch your skills for composing improve exponentially. Bravo Guy!
Let's face it people buy samples as sort of a crutch sometimes, rather than write better you just buy a new sample library and then the same old things you do sound different and new to you, for awhile.
Guy this is one of my favorite on-the-fly compositions that you've done. It's interesting how the way you voice/orchestrate it turns it from what starts as kind of a peaceful folk melody into what you call a hero piece/military theme. The music is mostly the same but as you build it, it shifts entirely. I take that as kind of a lesson too. I came to keyboards through organs with literal pedals, and tend, when not using my feet, to probably underestimate a pedal tone use, so you're reminded me of that.
That tip at 16:51 is awesome. That sort of "thinking like an analog player" is what I'd like to learn more of. What courses would you recommend for that sort of thing?
Thanks Guy, very interesting, I just downloaded some free Bach midi files. All harpsicord, with no velocity or modulations, very mechanical sounding, so as an exercise I was just splitting them apart and changing and modifying the voices and transposing some lines for the lower mid strings, and oboe or french horns for harmonies. And even playing with some synth voices. Its Plucky Bach vs Breathy Bach. Thanks for your vids always inspiring and fun to watch, and you have lots of great older vids as well, interesting how to see how you have changed your approach since your first vids.
Interesting. In the early 20th Century, Leopold Stokowski used to make orchestrations of Bach's organ works, effectively doing what you're doing here. The most famous of these was his transcription of Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D Minor, which was the first piece of music in the Walt Disney movie "Fantasia".
You can play chords on an ensemble track and then open the score editor, just to open it and you can now chose the scores>functions> explode menu item in the score editor window. You now have separate tracks with midi regions for each line of the chords at the bottom of the arrangement window that you can simply copy paste to the instrument track of your choosing.
All true - actually ive started writing in Dorico for stuff like this and then playing it in. Its the easiest score editor Ive ever used and really good for writing and playing stuff in
@@ThinkSpaceEducation I use Dorico too for orchestral compositions. Agree it's great and keeps getting exponentially better with each upgrade. I love the create notes from chord symbols feature as well. I'm sure Arnold Schoenberg would have loved that too. First harmony then melody.
I know you prefer traditional composition rather than sound design/cinematic section building, but either way you're very skilled at both methods. The lines/sketching in particular are something we don't get to see a lot of on the channel and it sounds great for the amount of time required to do it that way vs building out every instrument from scratch. It seems all too often composers will take an either or approach when it comes to cinematic vs traditional mockups, when both can work together quite well as shown here, especially for people who have been playing instruments all their lives and prefer improvising vs theory.
I make electronic music with orchestral elements and have only just now realised that I rely on block chords in the string section far too much. Thanks to this vid, I've only just learned what block chords are.
Thanks Guy, great video again. I am one of those who normally opts for the full string ensemble. If I were to change this to individual string sections would you use all of the string sections eg violins1, violins 2 etc or just certain ones? Thank you
Hello my friend, can I ask you for help? Where could I find a good soft boom? to use it in trailer music, like the dark night... please, I would love to know your advice. thank you so much.
Thank you always for your great tutorials. I have a question about your studio. You have so many windows. Is it sound proof for recording like a string instrument? I'm asking you as I plan to make my own recording studio and would love to get natural lightlike you.
What I lose in acoustics I make up for with a view. Windows are challenging but I can take it to the other studio to mix whicvh is properly treated. But you can use open back headphones- that works
I'm trying to wrap my head around his little chord progression - c minor, Ab, Bb, F. My first stab would be that he's in the key of Eb, and the chords are vi, IV, V, V/V. Does that sound logical?
Hey just wondering, if (as I do) each patch is one line (monophonic) is there even a need for a long patch as well as a legato patch? I’m just trying to minimise the amount of tracks I need. Using spitfire. I assumed the legatos are the same samples as the longs but with transitions?
Guy love the insight you provide, but I got more than what you expected were teaching. With a MM in performance I know the orchestration, the sostenuto vs thematic elements moving along, etc, it was the technique of putting things into the DAW I find most helpful. I find myself running from Pencil and paper to the DAW or writing down notes of idea I want to establish in pieces but mainly because I do more classical chamber composition with orchestral things scattered throughout. I am writing a symphonic work for large orchestra but it's going to be 30-45 min long in 4 movements. So...this observation might help me in putting the piece together a little faster so I can get thoughts out of my head. (I did movies and TV stuff back in the 90's)
I think this is why i stuck with cakewalk vs cubase because i always have staff view open. Not that im the world's greatest composer, but i usually sketch on piano with melody and chords to get the harmony right and then orchestrate
"Individual lines are better than block chords" Why? What exactly differentiates them that makes them better? I'm assuming based on this example it's the inclusion of passing tones and NCTs instead of staying within the notes of the triad? So wouldn't it be easier to just pencil in a midi arrangement and think "kinda stay within the chord progression but not really" instead of trying to improvise 4 or 5 different lines while trying to remember what chords your kinda but not really supposed to be sticking to? Surely there is a method to arrange a string section intentionally where you can manage your chord voicings and the melodic variations without having to improvise/guess each time you put in a line?
Yup you do it in a score writing programme or on paper. BUT... when writing on a deadline starting on paper then move to the DAW is too time consuming so straight into the DAW is how it often has to be. Voice leading is the important thing I think where each line sounds like it was meant to be there
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Indeed. I know you do. Great stuff. ...been working with samples/libraries, since the day of "GigaStudio (pre-Tascam), Sonic Foundry (pre SONY) "Acid" and when Logic was a run by Emagic. The dark ages. 😉 ✨💫🎵🎶❤️
True but working in a score writing programme or on paper is often too slow for deadlines so improvising using those principals of voice leading etc is sometimes the best compromose
I’ve always thought the only problem with playing block chords on a keyboard is you might end up with chords that are physically impossible to play on a real string instrument. I never realized the problem is actually bigger
I just wonder . . . At 17,55 the french horns are playing chords (two tone chords) . . . Doesn't that wreck "the reality" of a symphony orchestra playing this? As I have understood it, you are then doubling the number of french horn in the orchestra! ? I mean, earlier you said - You can't have the basses playing a low C with vibrato, 'cause its a loose string. - The reality of an orchestra! Thank's for all the great and entertaining videos you make.
If it's much easier to do it on paper or score writing software why don't you show us on Dorico / Sibelius ? I never use a DAW because I prefer to see where I'm going !
Questions: If you AREN'T writing for a real orchestra, do you really have to worry if "three orchestras" are playing at once? If the mock up is intended to be your end product, shouldn't it be a case of anything goes as long as it works, and sounds good?
Really depends on personal taste I guess. For the longest time I used block chording with string ensemble patches in my compositions. They sounded very good, but I will say my arrangements have much more emotion and sound more authentic when recorded individually by section.
Depends if you want it to sound real. Honestly finding a space for everything and being able to hjear each line gives a clarity to the arrangement which can just turn to mush otherwise
@@ThinkSpaceEducation True. But real to our ears and real to a layman's ears are often two different things. That said, I agree that mush is something you want to avoid.
yeah I cannot write like I do in Dorico. I came up on pencil and paper and while I have been using DAWs since the late 90s (sequencers before that) I write better string parts in notation. Not to mention being able to switch phrasing, articulations, etc with ease in notation. Don't have to find a bunch of arts then assign via KS and all that...
Term Starts June 3rd: thinkspace.ac.uk/courses/bootcamp-orchestral-composition/
8-weeks of tuition, live webinars, and personal feedback on your work from professional orchestral composers.
This is great, im studying full time, with lots of online workshops and masterclases, so timing is important,whats the schedule for the live sessions for this workshop?
@@Garethbellamy Drop us a line and we can let you know. Where in the world are you? hello@thinkspaceeducation.com
New zealand@@ThinkSpaceEducation
just let me know the timings in what ever time zone you are running them, i can work out the rest, cheers
This is one of the things I like about Studio One. It has a score view that makes things like string writing much easier than just using midi
Excellent vid Guy! I realized it was time for me to break away from the bad habit of block chording my strings using ensemble patches. My arrangements have greatly improved because of it.
Absolutely! Good to hear
I've just realised the same. I make electronic music with orchestral elements and have only just now realised that I rely on block chords in the string section far too much. Thanks to this vid, I've only just learned what block chords are.
Thank you Guy, that has opened my eyes to getting a much better string arrangement, even though it's on "twee" little tracks that no one is likely to hear. As all my stuff has been rejected so far, but I will keep writing. They say if you keep throwing enough stuff at the wall something at some point is going to stick......
Join one of our new style courses and there are 750 people in the discord channel waiting to hear your stuff!
Thank you sir, always great info delivered in a friendly manner. Cheers
I am researching becoming a composer after playing and writing for 30 yrs. Composing is where my heart has always been.
Thank you for this video...awesome!
Your videos are magic…sooooooo appreciate what you do in them…thank you so much😊
I use the chords, duplicate and edit techniques quite a lot. Very fast and it works. I generally then delete the original chord track, which creates so much space in the composition to work in. I also often then forget the original progression!
This is the video I needed but didn't know I needed.
Wonderful. Thank You 🙏🙏🙏 ~ stefan
great video tutorial Guy. Far too often "midi scores" are made by keyboardists that paly their string parts like a piano. Then blame the samples because it doesn't sound "real". The samples are present today to make a realistic mock up and then some. What's lacking are the skills. You provide the latter. Folks take Guy's courses and watch your skills for composing improve exponentially. Bravo Guy!
Let's face it people buy samples as sort of a crutch sometimes, rather than write better you just buy a new sample library and then the same old things you do sound different and new to you, for awhile.
Great, thank you so much for sharing Guy. Got some good content out of this. Can’t imagine how much more there is in the course. 💜🎶😊
Brilliant video, Guy.
Guy this is one of my favorite on-the-fly compositions that you've done. It's interesting how the way you voice/orchestrate it turns it from what starts as kind of a peaceful folk melody into what you call a hero piece/military theme. The music is mostly the same but as you build it, it shifts entirely. I take that as kind of a lesson too. I came to keyboards through organs with literal pedals, and tend, when not using my feet, to probably underestimate a pedal tone use, so you're reminded me of that.
That tip at 16:51 is awesome. That sort of "thinking like an analog player" is what I'd like to learn more of. What courses would you recommend for that sort of thing?
fantastic great advice will be watching a lot. thank you.
This was an awesome intro! Thanks
Absotively posilutely fantabulous!!
Awesome and inspiring video, thank you Guy!
Great Video Guy.
Very Helpful those demonstrations of pedal tomes
Thanks so much Guy!!!
Thanks for this, it really helped my string compositions.
Thank You Very Much Sir!
💛🙂🙏
Thank you my fine sir. Very informative.
Thanks guy
That was amazing advice
Thanks Guy, very interesting, I just downloaded some free Bach midi files. All harpsicord, with no velocity or modulations, very mechanical sounding, so as an exercise I was just splitting them apart and changing and modifying the voices and transposing some lines for the lower mid strings, and oboe or french horns for harmonies. And even playing with some synth voices. Its Plucky Bach vs Breathy Bach. Thanks for your vids always inspiring and fun to watch, and you have lots of great older vids as well, interesting how to see how you have changed your approach since your first vids.
Interesting. In the early 20th Century, Leopold Stokowski used to make orchestrations of Bach's organ works, effectively doing what you're doing here. The most famous of these was his transcription of Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D Minor, which was the first piece of music in the Walt Disney movie "Fantasia".
You can play chords on an ensemble track and then open the score editor, just to open it and you can now chose the scores>functions> explode menu item in the score editor window. You now have separate tracks with midi regions for each line of the chords at the bottom of the arrangement window that you can simply copy paste to the instrument track of your choosing.
All true - actually ive started writing in Dorico for stuff like this and then playing it in. Its the easiest score editor Ive ever used and really good for writing and playing stuff in
@@ThinkSpaceEducation I use Dorico too for orchestral compositions. Agree it's great and keeps getting exponentially better with each upgrade. I love the create notes from chord symbols feature as well. I'm sure Arnold Schoenberg would have loved that too. First harmony then melody.
Great stuff as always Guy, I would love to do a Boot Camp later in the year
Go for it!
1:15 Wow
Awesome! Thanks Guy 🤗
Havent seen anything similar on youtube, its pretty good impression. thanks =)
thank you so much for your content
Great tutorial!🙌
thanks :)
I know you prefer traditional composition rather than sound design/cinematic section building, but either way you're very skilled at both methods.
The lines/sketching in particular are something we don't get to see a lot of on the channel and it sounds great for the amount of time required to do it that way vs building out every instrument from scratch.
It seems all too often composers will take an either or approach when it comes to cinematic vs traditional mockups, when both can work together quite well as shown here, especially for people who have been playing instruments all their lives and prefer improvising vs theory.
You make music fun Guy. Thank you.
Great video 🎻🎻
Thank you very much!
I make electronic music with orchestral elements and have only just now realised that I rely on block chords in the string section far too much. Thanks to this vid, I've only just learned what block chords are.
If only everything in life was as reliable, fun and entertaining as Guy Michelmore...the world would be a better place. Thank you sir
You are very welcome
Thanks Guy, great video again. I am one of those who normally opts for the full string ensemble. If I were to change this to individual string sections would you use all of the string sections eg violins1, violins 2 etc or just certain ones? Thank you
Hello my friend, can I ask you for help? Where could I find a good soft boom? to use it in trailer music, like the dark night... please, I would love to know your advice. thank you so much.
Thank you always for your great tutorials. I have a question about your studio. You have so many windows. Is it sound proof for recording like a string instrument?
I'm asking you as I plan to make my own recording studio and would love to get natural lightlike you.
What I lose in acoustics I make up for with a view. Windows are challenging but I can take it to the other studio to mix whicvh is properly treated. But you can use open back headphones- that works
In the mixing mastering stage, will there also be talked about orchestral/film score approaches? Or is it mainly focused on pop music?
I'm trying to wrap my head around his little chord progression - c minor, Ab, Bb, F. My first stab would be that he's in the key of Eb, and the chords are vi, IV, V, V/V. Does that sound logical?
You can do individual lines on ensemble patch though right?
Another great video!! ..."Should old acquaintance be forgotten??"
Nice! Which string library are you using in this tutorial?
I think its spitfire chamber strings
Hey just wondering, if (as I do) each patch is one line (monophonic) is there even a need for a long patch as well as a legato patch? I’m just trying to minimise the amount of tracks I need. Using spitfire. I assumed the legatos are the same samples as the longs but with transitions?
Wonderful
Thank you
Guy love the insight you provide, but I got more than what you expected were teaching. With a MM in performance I know the orchestration, the sostenuto vs thematic elements moving along, etc, it was the technique of putting things into the DAW I find most helpful. I find myself running from Pencil and paper to the DAW or writing down notes of idea I want to establish in pieces but mainly because I do more classical chamber composition with orchestral things scattered throughout. I am writing a symphonic work for large orchestra but it's going to be 30-45 min long in 4 movements. So...this observation might help me in putting the piece together a little faster so I can get thoughts out of my head. (I did movies and TV stuff back in the 90's)
I think this is why i stuck with cakewalk vs cubase because i always have staff view open. Not that im the world's greatest composer, but i usually sketch on piano with melody and chords to get the harmony right and then orchestrate
How many Terms will there be? Cause I absoluty don't have the time or money right now, but I really wanna participate at a point in the future
"Individual lines are better than block chords"
Why? What exactly differentiates them that makes them better? I'm assuming based on this example it's the inclusion of passing tones and NCTs instead of staying within the notes of the triad?
So wouldn't it be easier to just pencil in a midi arrangement and think "kinda stay within the chord progression but not really" instead of trying to improvise 4 or 5 different lines while trying to remember what chords your kinda but not really supposed to be sticking to?
Surely there is a method to arrange a string section intentionally where you can manage your chord voicings and the melodic variations without having to improvise/guess each time you put in a line?
Yup you do it in a score writing programme or on paper. BUT... when writing on a deadline starting on paper then move to the DAW is too time consuming so straight into the DAW is how it often has to be. Voice leading is the important thing I think where each line sounds like it was meant to be there
Believe
Then
Achieve
All things possible.
Thank you.
🎼🎶🎵💫
I do go with that
@@ThinkSpaceEducation
Indeed.
I know you do.
Great stuff. ...been working with samples/libraries, since the day of "GigaStudio (pre-Tascam), Sonic Foundry (pre SONY) "Acid" and when Logic was a run by Emagic.
The dark ages. 😉
✨💫🎵🎶❤️
1. Learn actual harmony and counterpoint, and proper voice leading.
Done
True but working in a score writing programme or on paper is often too slow for deadlines so improvising using those principals of voice leading etc is sometimes the best compromose
I’ve always thought the only problem with playing block chords on a keyboard is you might end up with chords that are physically impossible to play on a real string instrument. I never realized the problem is actually bigger
❤
I just wonder . . .
At 17,55 the french horns are playing chords (two tone chords) . . . Doesn't that wreck "the reality" of a symphony orchestra playing this?
As I have understood it, you are then doubling the number of french horn in the orchestra! ?
I mean, earlier you said - You can't have the basses playing a low C with vibrato, 'cause its a loose string. - The reality of an orchestra!
Thank's for all the great and entertaining videos you make.
Hello mr can you offer me 🎹 am from Tanzania
Great, Guy, but that's exactly why I always start with a (fully) written score.
If it's much easier to do it on paper or score writing software why don't you show us on Dorico / Sibelius ? I never use a DAW because I prefer to see where I'm going !
Because that’s not what the course is about.
Questions: If you AREN'T writing for a real orchestra, do you really have to worry if "three orchestras" are playing at once? If the mock up is intended to be your end product, shouldn't it be a case of anything goes as long as it works, and sounds good?
Really depends on personal taste I guess. For the longest time I used block chording with string ensemble patches in my compositions. They sounded very good, but I will say my arrangements have much more emotion and sound more authentic when recorded individually by section.
Depends if you want it to sound real. Honestly finding a space for everything and being able to hjear each line gives a clarity to the arrangement which can just turn to mush otherwise
@@ThinkSpaceEducation True. But real to our ears and real to a layman's ears are often two different things. That said, I agree that mush is something you want to avoid.
@@ThinkSpaceEducation but the mush hides my mistakes
I’ve always felt that block chords are good in certain occasions not all of the time. Good tips man love it
Extra!!!
yeah I cannot write like I do in Dorico. I came up on pencil and paper and while I have been using DAWs since the late 90s (sequencers before that) I write better string parts in notation. Not to mention being able to switch phrasing, articulations, etc with ease in notation. Don't have to find a bunch of arts then assign via KS and all that...
Dorico is the first score programme I feel comfortable improvising and writing in.
What's with the Scottish folk music appropriation (around the 10 minute mark) 😎
Ha! Good spot
music is an arrangement of silences.