Healing From Hidden Abuse, featuring Shannon Thomas
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- For his Surviving Narcissism podcast, Dr. C interviewed author and clinical social worker, Shannon Thomas, regarding her latest book...Healing From Hidden Abuse. He shares that interview here.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. In the past 40+ years he has conducted more than 65,000 counseling sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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It' s so hard when the abuse is emotional and hidden. Everyone else sees the public imagine of the narcissist . The larger than life persona they work so hard to cultivate. No one suspects how much suffering is going on in the family.
The old saying
" no one knows what goes on behind closed doors"
It is True.
As large as a dry fish fart
@@Chris-dw7gq little did you know you had just begun
This is my situation.
YES EXACTLY!!!
I am recovering from hidden abuse including gaslighting and financial destruction from my husband of 38 years. I left 3 months ago and am so grateful that I had the freedom to leave. I have lots of healing to do and so appreciate your online content. At this point, I don’t miss him. I think I never really knew him after all.
Best wishes to you, Jeanette, as you move forward!
Hi Jeanette. My healing journey began 6 mos ago. I am starting a book club on Shannon's book, " Healing From Hidden Abuse" if you like to join in.
@@theshiftmastersessions I am definitely interested. When are you beginning this group and what is the meeting schedule?
"Never really knew him" and still don't now with all the flipping and flopping/personality/behavior going on. Was frustrating for a while. Now I find it extremely boring. What would be exciting is to have a healthy conversation with a person capable of having a healthy relationship. Healthy, not perfect.
Good for you getting out. Take care of yourself ❤
"Have to learn to listen to yourself" - love this and what I've been trying hard to do for a long time. I was raised by a covert narc, so my earliest memories of being talked out of my core self in a million tiny ways
Same here. My mother was a narcissist (a vulnerable one). When my now ex narcissist husband came along it all seemed so “normal” to me. I was convinced I was not normal, I couldn’t trust my own mind, and I would be lucky if anyone wanted me. I was ripe for the picking! Now I am older and wiser. I have healed quite a bit. It’s been some time and my bitterness is fading. I just see my mother and ex husband as two very toxic damaged people.
Yes!!!
What empath doesn't listen?
Thank you both as I found Shannon's book in 2016 and found Dr. Carter about a year ago and am nearly 6 years in my recovery from a husband of 64 years. We are still together but with the help of our son and you two I am sane and have happy days. I have the stages of recovery taped to my desk. God bless you and I thank God for you both!!!
Peggy Taylor, 🤗🦊
Amen, Dr Carter & Shannon, the great difference between mood disorders & character disorders. Unfortunately, “unmanaged mood disorders” can be ugly & can adopt narcissistic qualities during unstable episodes. Thank you for your videos.
True true
One thing not mentioned is how we have undone the narcissist and the narcissist’s program for us. I could write papers on it, but I have seen how twisted and incorrect it is and so I have moved on. This presentation is well-timed, Dr. Carter. These narcissists have taught an inorganic, unnatural, and superficial way of thinking instead of being you while interestingly enough being themselves as narcissists is completely damaged.
I can feel the pain they're all experiencing because their plan has finally come undone
When my now ex husband said "I did what I had to do to get what I wanted ." So matter of factually ,I felt like I'd been kicked in my gut !!
Felt like an idiot for being manipulated that way ! Knew in that moment that what I'd believed to be a marriage was a sham !
For nearly 30 years I'd convinced myself I just wasn't loving him enough !! Big wake up call to finally understand I wasn't loving myself at all !!
Yes I can relate to that! The way to begin the heal is to put YOU first🙏
He was being honest which seems rare to me seeing that you believed him to be a narc. We must also be honest and say "we did what we had to do to get what we wanted ". All the forgiving, and the work of doing so much of the work because they wouldn't. I know I am guilty of allowing the blame they cast on to you over ANYTHING to get set aside so that you can have a peaceful family home. We always knew better but we put up with it because who has time for dealing with it. I have recently forgiven myself for so many bad copping mechanisms I ventured into just to keep my sanity and identity. He made me feel faceless and empty no matter how I tried. Of course I am realizing they veiw love differently and I don't feel bad at all. I just needed to forgive him because he is what he is. I needed to forgive myself for not knowing what he is. The best to you Always.
This was a meaningful thread to me. I relate to it on multiple levels. Strength and self-belief to us all!
“I’m Not An Abuser, I’m A Fighter.”
“I’m Abusng On Purpose.”
[You Make Rules You Don’t Follow Yourself.] “Yeah.”
Hi Carol, yes same here 25yrs of marriage and couldn't figure out what was happening. Now I'm awake so to speak and have just lost my marriage, house but I still have my brains intact and dont have to share a bed with a man who was a serial philanderer...which I never new about BTW but it came to the light. Brighter days ahead for us when we don't have have rabid dog snapping at our heals. Blessings to you.
I haven't really thought of myself as a survivor of narcissism but obviously I am as I'm still alive. Some days it's really tough though as many here can relate too. The abuse, past and present, can be overwhelming. Thank you for having Samantha on today. More advice and knowledge is always good. 🍁
The big difference I’ve seen is that my (estranged, narcissistic) wife calls herself a survivor to get the credit for surviving, and therefore lives in that story of how she “survived.”
I, on the other hand, can recognize that I survived her narcissism, and moved on to live my life. I do still learn, and am aware of people I wish to invest in, versus people I avoid.
@@aaronkwolfe Sometimes as Dr C mentioned the abuse is "Hidden" or covert like devaluating or isolating or controlling so I can see how someone may not be able in the moment to put their thumb on what is being done to them. Particularly since the non Narc is being blamed at all times. I can relate to what you say Koma & Aaron that it's trauma forming and that re learning and being open to corrective life experience is a major boost in healing. Cheers to you both.🙂
@@marieldavison5121 It took our separation plus more time to get the proper perspective of her process of devaluing, isolating, and controlling. Indeed, the blame and gaslighting certainly clouded my vision. While I was in there. Distance and time (and streams here with Dr. C) were what I needed. It takes time to unpack all this ... stuff.
Downplaying the "victim" status, preferring "survivor" status instead is how to heal and grow.
@@aaronkwolfe 🙂I Agree.
These people are not mentally ill or have a personality disorder. They are evil, thats it , EVIL
Yes, they can really act evil . At age 16 my deceased husband of 32 years cut his sister wrist, he wanted to see what would happen. I had no idea he was that bad when we married 10 years later. It was at his funeral 4 years ago today, his sister felt safe enough to tell people. I wish I had known.
For myself ,I have gotten so used to ignoring bizarre behavior by the narc. I knew that confronting it would only make it worse.
They get away with so much that is not normal!! At this point I am trying to set boundaries.
Hi Dr C and thank you for your videos that have been a tremendous source of help and support for me on my very long journey dealing with narcissism. I realize that the only way to really deal with someone with this disorder is to NOT engage on any real or deep level because that requires the narcissist to reveal their vulnerability to life, which they cannot and will not do in order to hold authority over a person and keep themself in the superior position. I have learned many different techniques from your shows that have benefited me to have a healthy relationship with myself and others. The narcissist in my life has a high need for control and manipulation so I shared an old video of yours that you posted a year ago titled "Healing from the damage caused by a Narcissist" because I wanted him to hear from a doctor what I experience as a result of his abuse. That video in particular was especially meaningful to me in its’ accuracy and one that I replay often to remind me of the ongoing lifelong healing process. I'm not holding my breath but it appears to have had a slight impact on him (I even got a nice dinner with dessert!:) and I wanted to share that with you. I have no expectation that anything will come of it, because we all know that narcissists cannot see anyone else but themselves in the very narrow selfish world they live in. Thank you for all you do for Team Healthy! Gratefully yours, Me.
The person I was married to who behaved in those controlling , manipulative ways would often do really "sweet" things like cooking a great meal etc for me . . .then few days later ,I felt BLINDSIDED once again hearing the hate spewing from him towards me !
TRUST vanished after a while ! I KNEW the TRUTH.
RECOGNIZED that he was INDEED a BULLY !
Bullies hate when their victim refuses to be controlled. Thankfully he divorced me ! And more thankfully I was led to the best attorney.
Ended up losing quite a bit financially. However I AM a survivor !
Almost 80 now & being very conservative with $ to live healthy physically as well as emotionally & spiritually. Still learning .
So grateful to Dr.C. & others sharing their expertise. I AM TEACHABLE !
@@62WILDCAT Thank you for sharing your story as we continue our journey Surviving Narcissism 💕 Yay for us!
Thanks dear lady, please ,be ok the people we love , but keep your love strong for both of ya , im saying that cause you have honor in all your ways
@@lindabell2940 how beautiful ♡
@@62WILDCAT Carol Dorsey, I really wish there were ways we could talk. I too was treated same way. It was like figuring out a puzzle everyday. A few very few close friends have said they wonder how I'm still alive. Shear determination to live for 3 little children. To be protected. They are adults now. Take very good care of yourself. 🤗🦊
Understanding is always a first step. These streams have brought that. I take ownership of the details of where my life needed healing. It is a process, not an event.
So very true Aaron. That's what I find bouncing back in between the stages Shannon describes of restoration, maintenance, education, awakening, & boundaries now. Despair has left the building with the onset of boundaries & corrective life experiences. Cheers
I agree with your statement. Understanding is very important and I’m processing all the time.
Right about at our 10 year mark, I typed in google, what my spouse just did and said, then narcissism came up. I began doing all the reading and research I could. I had heard that term, but didn't understand it. At that point I had talked and tried to reason with him, I have taken us to 5 different counselors during this time, then it dawned on me, this is insane, who does this for this long, why would I do this for this long and why is he ignoring me for all these years. Then I found a good counselor that I saw regularly for a year, that was a great help, I would still be going there, but it is very expensive and an hour away, I can't afford that, I need to be saving to be on my own soon. I am 65 and I look forward to living out my last years in peace, Lord willing. I hope I can prevent just one person from entering a relationship with someone like this--or to get out of one before it gets serious.
Debra Bowman, 🤗🦊
I have been so distracted with busyness from him never have time to address what i called his quirky shit. Which isn't consistent so i get over it. Yet, at the sametime everyone telling me how lucky I am, etc!!!!
I have a really good life on the outside yet emotionally neglected and used to it yet have always hated it and longed for a connection.
We are the power couple we play will together and same upper level activities, work well together, same lifestyle taste, etc. Just don't talk about feelings and all of a sudden you do something that Today is called abuse and knocks me to the ground...
I'm now learning yet freaked out /scared to death to leave.....upsetting since I am so strong otherwise both physically and emotionally!
Booooooo and it's never been a good time to get help since he is always around...yet planning on doing anyway somehow.
Yep, embarrassed by the amount of years! I need help!
@@deannaaadland7738 keep learning, get some support, stay safe.
Wowza! Hey friends,
Crazy, just read this today and YA I have come so far and peeling the layers and paying attention to my growth not his. Totally feeling detached emotionally. Moving into a solo lifestyle and conquering all sorts of challenges as a individual and rocking it!!! I cry, I'm sad, etc ..yet know what to do to keep moving forward. Loving being able to be myself without judgment and make my own decisions ..hallelujah 😌 ✨️
Read once " don't expect a cat to bark" !
It is a great visual for me. Once I saw what the person was /is , I no longer expected him /her to be any different.
Stopped asking ,don't you understand how I'm feeling ?!
Zero empathy is right on !
Don't expect a narc to change either! Nice one.
This is what is needed. So Many of us suffer quietly, silently so we can look fine on the outside and most days we are but when we stop it feels like we could crumble if there is a slight wind. I could easily write a book. 32 years of marital abuse, raised in a cult religion, you really feel like a nothing. Always walking on eggshells.
🤗🤗🐕Gus🤗🦊
Oh My Goodness! You are literally describing my daughters (20 and 22 years old). When I present them with documented facts, I am "rude" and "making people uncomfortable." This is simply absurd. Facts are Facts. Reality is Reality.
Oh I I know this with my daughters!
Me too with one of my adult children. It's just so incredibly Sad!
I've been implementing many of dr. c's methods of dealing with a narcissist. I've been married to him almost 40 years. I'm also getting out and doing more things for fun. He got mad the last time a couple of weeks ago, put a hole in the bedroom wall, threatened to kill me and said he hated me. My crime was I went on a 2 hour hike with our grown daughter and he didn't know about it. Yep he's just a little controlling. But I continue to keep standing up for myself. The hole is still in the wall. Constant reminder of what a narcissistic jerk he is.
Geez that sounds about right! That’s exactly the way they handle life as if they’re a little 5 year old brat having a temper tantrum for you to keep in line. Absolute rubbish!! Surviving the trauma is a process and keeping the joy within yourself is vital. I pray you continue to take many more hikes with your daughter for your own physical and emotional health and well-being ❤️
Like Dr C says if their are two people ~ both have rights! Especially to freedom! I hope you keep safe. Punching walls is threatening & intimidating. I guess he didn't learnt in kindergarten that hands are not for hitting! Keep safe😉
Mine likes to take the TV remote with him and takes away $, to try and control. Yes jerks.
Threatening to kill you is extremely serious. When someone that abusive sees you drifting away from them, they will double down on the control or even actually kill to keep you from having a life without them. Please plan on getting out safely!
I agree with Rebecca Levy’s comment whole-heartedly. You need a plan to get out to a place where you and your daughter can be protected.
Dr. Carter, you somehow seem to be able to send the exact message I need to hear to continue my journey of recovery. Thank you so much for introducing us to a new guide on this path we walk together on #TeamHealthy.
Hi Drs. Carter, Thomas, Gus and Team Healthy from California. Emotional Abuse is never talked about but need to be very much. I have gone through so much but never had a hand touch me. That is one of their favorite things to say is that you are talking about the past. They don't seem to understand that it is the same thing going on everyday. Absolutely, every action has a self serving purpose. One can never afford to lose him or herself when dealing with a Narcissistic person. You have to keep hold on who you are for sure. You are so right Dr. Thomas, they do not change and the older they get the worse they get. Thank you so much for a great video.
Hidden abuse may be exactly what He has been getting my attention about - the heart condition - it IS real!
He had my attention - He appears to be bringing me closer for the heal!!!
Praise God!!!
Thank you Mr C and those who participate with Team Healthy in the comment section
People
What God reveals -He will heal
A joint adventure with Him
The hills - the valleys and all the side alleys
He loves us STILL
Peace He is
So we can BE still
💖👑
🌟
♥️
Thank you Shannon for your participation with Mr Carter and this topic
I am being able to do reviews on my life with the people- situations and my reactions to it with actual bonifide information that can be used to becoming who I’m meant to be and not what others dictate - bully- threaten - me to be
I have asked God ‘Why am I - the way I am ?’
Being absolutely terrified what He could very well say - which was quite contrary to what I was expecting- now I see that this is the part of it - that is the logical- for what He said to me - about me is another process and that joined together - how He sees me- how I have been traumatized by these people types- going along- to get along- while being strung along- ‘cause I absolutely don’t like commotion -now sewing that there is then no boundaries- there’s then no loving myself and this teaches others how to treat me which makes for the merry go round - besides this I’m seeing dynamics- coming from a large family- parents- relatives and now in a place where though 57 yrs- almost 40 born again - how despite all of this God is bringing me through-regardless of what amount of time I have left on earth - I’d prefer to leave here getting all of this purged as God wills to become who He sees me as - knowing all and me getting to beware to come to know what He desires as He desires it
I never experience love - unless it comes by Him and yet in my heart I’m aware to know that’s all I actually desire- then all the people- situations- experiences- trauma can be put in their rightful place and in turn I will be put in mine
God has been too good soo good despite all that I can see those glimpses where He reassures me that He has the best for me in His heart and His love with all it entails is the only love that counts- my concern has been what part have I played to affect any other being so affected by the toxicity and it’s repercussions- like a choke hold that wants to kill steal and destroy me- I’ve had a prophet tell me there was death and destruction assigned to my life- I’d ask God’ now who would do that?’
I’m getting that answer literally and it’s obviously perpetrated by certain peoples that live for power or are in powerful positions
These types of channels really help to take off all that unrealistic pressure being able now to identify what was and is going on
Yup!
God is in the details
He doesn’t keep those things blanketed - covered
How can one heal without knowing what one needs to heal not only from but also obviously their own personhood
I’m seeing His love like I need to and I talk to Him about it
My first love
My only true love
And it’s all worth it to be stripped of it all
It takes people who answer His call and whom He has these areas for to be vessels to help educate- to give the resources to for those who have become like they have because of this type of influence from those who are willing and actually thrive on it- it’s so deprived and satanic
It completely disturbs me
It’s not enough to say God wins- we win for those who are truly in the Faith- this is a battle and it requires strategy and God does give it to do something with it
When God is for us
Who can be against us
Ourselves
Self sabotage
A result of the beatings of psychotic narcissism that will deplete us taking the life out of us
God is life
God is love
God is healing
Whether it’s deliverance or not
That is guaranteed to come
Eternity!
With Him all our loved ones
Those too who love God and have stayed in this territorial battle on earth incl within each of us
Truly! Verily!
Gods Best to Bless!!!
Everyone here!
💖👑♥️🙂🇨🇦
Thank you.🙏💕💖
@@mandycote5662 Sounds quite the journey, I can sooooooo relate. Yes, the knowledge we're receiving from these helpful Doctors and especially the constant communication with The ALMIGHTY and HIS beautiful way of being with us throughout, I still find myself lapsing and a niece sorta sensed something off during a phone conversation. When we hung up I received a text from her, this is what she shared and I don't know the author: Forgive yourself for not knowing better at the time. Forgive yourself for giving away your power. Forgive yourself for past behaviors. Forgive yourself for the survival patterns and traits you picked up while enduring trauma. Forgive yourself for being who you needed to be. ♡
I find the word "transactional" the word that fits to describe the narcissist's concept of relationship.
….and if you’re a Dad in family court, the transaction is akin to the transaction a prisoner receives in the shower when he drops the soap.
Great guest in Shannon Thomas! Her book is part of my "library of healing"
I love the 6 stages. Never saw it like that. My mother will NEVER see the light! after 5 years of no contact I have done so much healing that I am NEVER going back. I love my life of freedom, the ability to be able to parent without being told I'm insignificant. I love the fact that I can actually exercise MY decisions and see what happens without the criticism from her! I can't change her! She has to do the work to change. I have a life that doesn't have room for her and her narcissism until such time as she can work to change and I'm not holding out for it to happen. I need to get that book now - goo thing summer is around the corner here, I have quite the library to read!
If my mother got u 1 on 1 she will roast u like a chicken.you wil feel lower then gophers basement. You will need a 🪜 to get out of her house.😅. No contact 5 years😅😅😅😅
Conversation hijackers and being told what you think!!
What an excellent session and so much information to think about and process.
VERY COMPLEX TO SAY THE LEAST!
Shannon summed it up when she said there comes a time when many of us living with a narcissist realize we are tired of living the narcissists way of life.
It zaps so much good positive genergy out of our lives.
The good thing is we are NEVER to old to learn and make positive changes. Starting my loving ourselves.
Thanks to the both of you for the excellent food for thought.
And forgiving ourselves for not even knowing what we were going through and the different levels of copping, sorry can't seem to find the right spelling on that word. Is it cohping or anyway, it's how to cope with them. It's like being a magician, never know what you need to pull out of your hat to survive. Over it
This is brilliant, thank you both so much 🥰🙏. "The sky is purple" really sums up just how absurd they are. This video reminded me of how the narc ex made me so unsure of myself I began to stutter when talking to him, I had no confidence left.
Oh you need confidence!!!! I had confidence and when he'd go silent (sometimes for months and months), I'd gray rock the dickins out of him--didn't even know it was called gray rock at the time. It was like a starring contest except I didn't want to be in it and he did. I had a full plate, raising children and a full time job and everything else. I sometimes wished I knew then what I know now, life doesn't work that way. Never be a victim just appreciate your scars. Life is good.
Yes you can say the facts and it’s not true according to them. Sky is blue, no it’s purple sums it up
At one level I think the narcissists try to hide the truth from themselves, but they do act one way in public and another way in private. If they know how to act in public, they consciously know right from wrong. As jaded as this sounds, acting well in public gets them supply, and conning you in private gets them supply. In their worldview it's a win-win. If emotional needs are met by supply, not rapport, why would they reflect on their behavior as it would be a lose-lose?
I am so pleased that you have addressed the fact that narcissist children can be identified when they are quite young. I know a young woman who was conceived through artificial insemination. She was adored by family & had a loving (probably a bit indulgent) up-bringing. There is definitely a genetic component to this disorder. It is a huge injustice to place the blame on parenting without looking close-up at the family dynamics & hearing more sides to the story. Identifying the fact that there is a new generation of narcissists who have weaponized the issue is incredibly insightful. Repeating that narcissists do not change is so validation, saves a lot of needless suffering & is incredibly freeing. God bless you both!
Excellent video thank you both. Two things I take from this. Yes I've seen things taken like gaslighting and narcs but also about empathetic people and personality types. A lot out of context and distorted. It's all meant to give a deeper understanding and yet these things are stated as facts, absolutes, definitive and looking at one on infj's people talking about how infj's 'door slam'. I know narcs who do this and they're definitely not infj's! Lack of critical thinking seems to be in full flight across humanity and instead knee jerk reactions and distortions with no reflection. Glad I saw this today as I'd been confused by it. Secondly as to why I've been trying to work through some events of the past and I brought one up (didn't know why at the time it was that one). Now I know why......I'm going through a similar set of events now (a huge trauma)and the narc in my life is acting the way they did decades ago to an original trauma. Now I know why I was doing that, very helpful and way more helpful than the narcs reaction which was the same as it was way back! As the dr. Says the reason we cant let things go is theyre repeating the same patterns and we are trying to make sense of it. Feel relief that my questioning isn't abnormal but they're repetition of hurtful behaviours is
It was hard for me to believe the abuser was off, not me. I'd believed them for so many years!
Interesting conversation. NOW my question is what is the difference between emotional abuse vs psychological abuse? What are some examples?
Thank you for this inspiring and greatly supportive conversation. You have been saving people’s lives on a daily basis. Psychological abuse is so profoundly damaging. It is breaking human minds and spirits. The total destruction of the individual and ultimate control of the victim is afterwards just easy and often is conducted with the victims consent and gratitude! Pure evil at work. Annihilation of an individual with the world’s approval and sympathy.
When the victim finally takes their stand against the abuser, the situation can quickly become very volatile and hurtful for the victim.
Thank you to both🙏♥️🔥Great explanation as always💪😉🎶
I enjoy so much these videos! Lot's of valuable POVs and experience. Thanks Dr C! Greetings from Brazil.
Excellent video and reaffirming.
The beginning and ongoing adventures of sustainable clarity, it is such a precious treasure. Thank you for providing a treasure map..
Thank you for this information. At this time in my life, it has been very helpful in my healing prosses. God bless
Great podcast !! It was right on anyone who has been in hidden abuse can relate completely to everything you two talked about. Thanks for fulfilling your God given purpose ❤
Hi Dr. Carter, I want to thank you for introducing us to Dr.Thomas.This has been a wonderful blessing ,I hope you will do this again ? I love that you both have said ignore the narcissist after one or two time times ! I personally love Titus 3:10 and 11.😊 God bless you both for all your help.
There are people/clients whom I've termed as "relational pyromaniacs". They love to create problems between others then sit back and watch the relationship burn. I'm wonder which category they fit into: narcissist, personality disorder, character disorder.
This video was ment for me to hear it I hope this is dealt with
I was thinking of a book called “Victim nation”. How to be so sensitive and entitled that integrity and values are loss in the race of being “ the most victimized”. My family is good at it and it makes me feel sick. I am so ready to be free of “ I’m a victim” . I am not yet free due to the golden handcuffs and not being allowed reality as a child or any knowledge of responsibility. I do feel like I’m trying to break free of how much my parents indoctrinated me into “ not capable”. Luckily I learned about gaslighting and woke up to my fathers constant sabotage over any self efficacy attempts.
Yes, that 3rd way to become narcissistic. Accusing parents of abuse that were just parents trying to survive financially and raise kids. It's definitely an epidemic. Kids going no contact in their teens and twenties. I gave my narc grace until I was 60 and it became dangerous. These kids don't for the most part know what real emotional or physical abuse actually is. Please write about this. Thanks ❣️
I am also in my 60s. I would have been way ahead of the games if I had shoved off in my 20s.
In the state of culture nowadays, it is more mortifying observing the compliance to overt disorder than the source itself.
Thanks, I just ordered books suggested! Can't wait to read them.
This was so very helpful! Thank you both so much. Would you consider a video of when the narcissist is also exhibiting borderline personality and how to find a way to have compassion but also courage to create a safe place for yourself and your children? Thank you so very much for your work! You are a blessing!!!
I am so glad to hear someone articulate what I have experienced with my children related to normal healthy parenting and call it abuse. My children, as well as myself to, have experienced narcissistic abuse by their father that they now have very limited contact with him. When I am settng boundaries on something such as their use of their phone, or how late they can be out, they say I am just like their dad
The best thing I heard when my kids were young was from a radio preacher that said... Rules without relationships lead to rebellion ". Do your best to have a good relationship with your children but keep being a parent. I did my utmost best I could, still do though they are adults on their own but they have something against me and I came to understand "that's on them". I have my memories of my children and I getting along with lots of love and good times. It's like the devil can't stand for anyone to get along. Hopefully Heaven will straighten everything out♡♡♡
They're kids and that's what they do
Dr C. Thank you for your approach. When you verbalise the things that the narcissists in my life say, I realise how absurd these people are, and they begin to lose their power of hurting me. But you also help me to see how evil they are too and it keeps me on guard.
Yep, so true.
It's too bad that it takes us so much time to figure it out! I'm so glad you have.🙂
Shout out to the comments, i like go team healthy
Best thing to do is "be on guard". Never let your guard up because the narc never stops, they just take small rests and then WATCH OUT.
@@tmo.48 Every time I forget and drop my guard a little, I get a painful reminder of just who I'm dealing with. So I agree with you 100%!
The adage, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger had to have come from a survivor of a narcissist.
I'm surprised that her voice is even more lovely than the narrator on her audiobook
Another amazing learning opportunity! Thank you 🙏
Being able to see something is wrong. Even if you have no clue what it is. Is a tough place to be.
I remember thinking. . ."How can I extract myself from this situation and maintain my decency."
Taking the high ground. Even when you are totally unsure of what's going on around you. Will give you strength later to feel more human than your narcissist counterpart. They will never get it.
But you won't be like them and sucked into their game. Stay on team healthy.
I always thought my mother put my brother before me but listening to all the videos I realised she was putting herself first my whole life. She appears to be the loveliest person to the outside but definitely realised she’s a covert narc and I have been her scapegoat/parent since I was quite young. I have just gone no contact and it’s hard but my life has changed so much for the better, thank you for the videos x
Based on my experience with the “former Narcissistic relationship” I felt alone to deal with the bizarre crazy-making, dynamic. Those who were close to me did not understand Narcissism or believe it to exist. Nevertheless, I forged ahead learning, educating myself & gaining information through (you) Dr. C. & other reliable trained individuals. I reached a point no one distracted my gaining insight, all of which provided me the ability to see so much Narcissism in epidemic form. The key is to know what to look for & observe. The other side included (my role in the equation) as I realize I am codependent that played into the issue & why‼️ That realization started with me avoiding these Narcissistic individuals in the future & the red flags. I know what look for, especially since my ex was a Covert/Vulnerable. Trusting my instincts instead of others.
It's sad when you say others don't understand narcissism, but you sure do! Yes, to what you say about trusting your instincts. I'm pulling for you, Brynnlea.
What you say about people don't understanding narcissism, is very true and it's also my experience. I have tried but there is noone who understands.
I have been pondering this thought for years. I heard you say, “Understanding….”almost half through your video.
I believe love is the greatest tool we have, so far.
Understanding is a sub-category of love, yet, I’m thinking more powerful than Hope. Not sure, but think it should be included in everyday living.
I swear I saw the narcissists eyes turn black, friends say it was my imagination because he was having an episode of anger, do their eyes turn black?
Thank you Les wow I caught you live fantastic love it I was up early this morning and I heard somebody say oh those kind of people are trying to recapture their use of their glory days and I thought you know I paint a painting when I was 52 and it was glorious and if I start painting again today which I do I do all the time I’m not trying to recapture my glory days I’m continuing to express the glory of God in my paintings and the same with painting my face with a make up with the hair extensions that I had that is the glory of God and we reflect the loveliness of God and it’s not like I’m trying to recapture the glory I had when I was 52 or 30 or 20 it’s that I’m expressing the glory of God today we don’t have to make other people opinions or ideas to tear away at our unique expression and add to diminish it and make it ugly so I really appreciate what you were sharing about about being in these disruptive relationships is dysfunctional relationships and thank you so much less and hey that’s a fancy top I love it I’ll all the patterns the green and the red it’s really remarkable and your long hair I love it and Alyssa always always so handsome thank you so much I know it’s not about the way you look but Hayward works of art and I always love to celebrate art and what you had to say of course always so nurturing and uplifting yeah less you’re a mentor for me too I bet you’re a mentor for a lot of people for sure an example of love and wisdom love and light from the desert 🌵🖼🆙👋👍🎉🌈❤️🔥🌈
Thanks, Deeboolove. I really enjoyed doing this video with Shannon.
Take time to heal from a breakup! Rushing into a relationship will only lead to more pain and heartache because you may not be ready yet. Healing is a process! Processing those emotions, doing your shadow work and falling in love with yourself again, will take you one step closer to attracting a healthy relationship that you deserve.
💙UA-camr That Helps People Overcome Toxic Relationships
Thank you so much, this was a great conversation❤️ can you add a list of the books you both were referencing? Off to listen to Shannon's book!
Shannon's book was what opened my eyes to narcissism. It was the first book I've read on this topic.
These are people who cannot understand how it can possibly be that other people might not want be subjugated into enslavement to them - since they always know better and others exist for them anyway - and they genuinely feel affronted and victimised by other people having the right to autonomy, privacy, self-determination and dignity. The natural tendency is to want to explain one's situation, needs, and priorities, assuming they are interested, because, after all, that's how normal people coordinate with each other; to narcissistic people, however, offering explanations just means they are dominant, they are right, and they have control.
I think it is pivotal to choose one's goal in dealing with these people wisely. The rest is details. Changing them into decent human beings is a poor goal choice. Having a normal relationship based on respect with them is a poor goal choice. My goal was merely to exclusively have relationships not based on authoritarian domination, and live a life not degraded by the bullying and abuse that they inevitably yield, and that's altogether achievable. Detachment seemed to me to be logically necessary, or semantically entailed, meaning there is no possible model in which living well is true and being detached is false.
isn’t narcissism a result of abuse though?
Hey Dr. C, would it be possible to do a future topic on the causes of what seems to be an exponential growth of Narcissism within our society, exploding in recent years from epidemic to pandemic proportions & compare it to when you first started in your field?
Rediscover your uniqueness. I'm amazed hearing this because I'm in the rediscovery stage.
What a great episode. You guys definitely have a vibe when chatting. Shannon, that is such a 'wild' insight as you say about how people are so arrogant and entitled they want someone to live the life they have decided is right 'for me and for you' - shocking as you say!
fantastic INTERVIEW! I have just disinherited my x 2 Daughters when i got Cancer they accused me of being 'Abusive' lied about me - and caused havoc to my fincances. This is VITAL to get this out - it is a global problem.......Im writing a book about this.
I know Covert Abuse at the PHD level as a victim. Most of what I hear does not properly explain CHA ( Covert Hidden Abuse ). Covert Abuse is not very similar to Overt Abuse. Covert Abuse is very different than Overt Abuse. I have been a victim of severe Overt Abuse as well...I have another PHD in being the victim of Physical and Overt Abuse. Shannon Thomas you are not accurately describing CHA but, rather are describing OA.
People seeing themselves as CONSTANT victims is not healthy. Don't stay a VICTIM.
You know, I think one reason we keep complaining about the narcissist to our therapist or whoever we talk to about it is due to the fact that going by just a few of the things they've done or said does seem petty. We know that most people will not understand, and when we complain about them out loud, what they did doesn't sound like that big of a deal, even to ourselves. Like if we heard someone else saying someone said or did these things to them, we would think, so what? That's nothing, can't you just get over that? But if someone hears the totality of our experience, they may understand better what we went through. That may not be the only reason we keep complaining, but I think it's the main reason.
Exactly, I have felt that way and cancelled appointments with a therapist several times long time ago thinking I'm just being nick picking. And, at least I'm not dead.
I just moved from Temple Tx to a farm in southern Missouri. I wish I had found your videos before I moved although you may not have a private practice anyway. I’ve enjoyed your insights.
Thank you so much! I really loved that! Especially the character driven versus emotionally driven.. thank you both!
Dr. C, I was asked this question today: "Christ talks to us about unity. Doesn't (having) boundaries push against having unity? I just want to know that going this "boundary" route is in line with God's word." I am trying to answer from a pure heart. What would you tell someone who asked this question?
Incredible! When she said the narcissist says the sky is purple, that’s exactly how I’ve always describe my dad. If I said the sky is blue he would tell me I’m wrong.
How interesting. I was thinking of baking cookies while I lay in bed last night (after a verbal bombardment from my husband). I found myself smiling as I haven’t for years. He doesn’t let me cook or bake.
Exactly. Nothing but a threat of divorce would move the needle. A temporary modification of behaviour. But he did get better as a father, I will give him that. But as a husband, it didn't last. And he got his revenge later, when I was my most vulnerable. And it just got worse over the decades.
Thank you both💝
Wonderful! Where was all of this information 50 years ago? Thank you so much.
After what I experienced for 7 years, I wish that I could never feel again.
You have to go no contact as your protective life affirming healthy self love boundary.
Diversity IS creation. It makes new life possible.
She hit the nail on the head! TikTok is indeed feeding into healthy parenting and boundaries being "unhealthy". It's as though the pendulum missed the middle and kept of swinging!
What a great video. Absolutely brilliant ❤
My story has "shocked" people who said they were "unshockable". Many times and situation!. I have been thinking of putting those moments in a book that I would title, "There is something new under the Sun.". !! One of those "shocked" persons was Patricia Evans author of several books on Verbal Abuse. After speaking separately with both me and my husband, she stopped charging me for the visit and started "interviewing" me out of fascination with the unique details of my situation. I would not be surprised if some of what I shared ended up in any of her new books. I may have inspired her to consider writing a book on "Spiritual Abuse". That is much needed!!!!!
How can we work on developing her program in my area, Northern Idaho?
Hidden abuse can happen through passive aggressive behaviors and words but they deny it’s meant to hurt you.
Absolutely 💯 percent.
This was great and really boosted my mood. Than you.
The 6 step program sounds perfect. . Hopefully with more education we can force offenders to get help themselves. I grew up in a toxic house with an alcoholic father who most likely had a Narcistic mother. I discovered at 60 I was a people pleaser. I have not spoken with my 3 abusive sisters in 5 years.
I have discovered others in my life who were abusive and currently working on getting them out of my life. I have had to block a few and gray rock others.
Loved the podcast.
Do narcissists choose what to believe? What kind of narcissist tells a person with less power that they can choose what to believe, and when they say they can, they mean they should, or they must. What kind of narcissist says "Do you think God wants you to...". Besides the religious narcissist. What kind of narcissist did I grow up with within that reality-denying evangelical atmosphere.
It seems we cannot really love if we are not seeking to understand our grand people and world around us.
Great to know Sherry. And Dr C has amazing ability to articulate. Covert narcissist and all that come with it woke me. Consciousness. Awareness. I chose education over therapy because of pathology. Even Bessel von der Kolk agrees friendship heals The saddest part is FEELING LOVE. I belong to a huge meditation and mindfulness community helps me. I suggest using it. They get exposed to love and respect and much more. I lost a lot of my post. Thanks for this chat.
In 2016 my then fiancee now husband bought me Shannon's book. It was then I realized what had happened to me growing up. 2017 went no contact at 60. Life has been good, not problem free at all but really good. It's like a perpetual vacation of a sort. No shame or blame games.
Less, you got to tell your friend here to dump t-mobile. It's like literally one of the worst cell phone carriers on the planet. I think it's literally the official narcissistic cell phone company! They make a lot of promises and don't fulfill any of them. Low empathy on your need for service, and gaslights you on the supposed savings you get from the plan prices that are offered.
THEY DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THEM!
These people can’t think outside of the box 😅 and expect us to conform to their rules and ways of thinking…. Crazy 😂😂😂
They are not known as insightful, that's for sure!
This was a great interview and I just ordered her audible book. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with us.
I think i have adopted you as my mentor too Dr C' : )
Thank you Dr Carter and Shannon. Thank you Really so, so, so helpful.
You are so welcome!
Thank you. They’re losing for a reason Dr.
Thank you both🐶
Agree that technology is two edged, positives and negatives. I wonder how much drugs contribute. Are people able to think for themselves anymore?