Fountain of Dreams is Broken. But I Can Fix Her.
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Should Fountain of Dreams be legal in doubles? Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee is known to have Fountain of Dreams banned in doubles due to it lagging and being unplayable. However, I discovered that with the new technology within the community, it is actually possible to play on the stage we always thought wouldn't be. Let me know down below your thoughts if Fountain of Dreams should be legal in doubles or not!
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#smashbros #smash #melee
Do you think fountain of dreams should be legal in doubles?
Yes. Nintendo already hates us anyway, right?
Especially since you basically solved it at the end. It is fixable WITH reflections, apparently.
@@MoneyBark they do, since they don’t like changes to their game 😭
@@MoneyBark based off my testing, I think it works just fine! Nintendo would never even know. And we are already playing on this FOD anyway!!
I think it should be legal as a counter pick but with extra lag just for fun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am the Subway Surfer master LOL
LOL
I think it's a no brainer to add fod to the stage list if there was no lag and we consider no reflections as standard. No reflections seems like it would be the first visual mod to be considered tournament standard though right? I liked Eric's idea about having it off on player CRTs and having them on for stream
It’s def a great option, but with Nintendo reps in the audience it runs a risk sadly. Hopefully we have enough tests to prove that regular fod on slippi works!
@@JeramiJoseph 'Nintendo reps in the audience'?
@@lounowell4171 apparently there are Nintendo reps in the audience at majors watching smash tournaments
@@JeramiJoseph Maybe, I don't think Nintendo has shut down any tournaments that didn't seek out some affiliation with them (sponsorship, partnerships, etc...)
Subway Surfer bit with Axe’s frozen footage goes hard
Appreciate it homie 😂 all credit to my boy papanojohns
Should also be noted that Ganondorf (one of the most popular doubles characters) also lags FoD quite a bit with their cape physics.
That’s really interesting! I def need an expert to do more tests for sure. I had no idea this happened, but I hope it all works out!
@@JeramiJoseph Does the lag get fixed noticeably when on a wii? I always assumed with better hardware the wii shouldn't have the same issues, but I am not really sure
@@samueljohnston5590 the lag gets fixed on the wii when playing on slippi with nintendont. Like fizzi said it’s possibly due to the higher clock speed allowing for fod to have less lag, or no lag at all unless trying to get it based on my tests
@@JeramiJoseph yeah I probably shoulda finished the video before commenting lol
@@samueljohnston5590 all good homie
Subway Surfer / Family Guy clips got me feeling like a true zoomer over here, brain is overstimulated... Good video overall and an interesting topic for sure
Appreciate it homie! Glad I could talk about something no one has really done before 😄 and yeah attention spans suck and a friend reccomend I do the edits for the laughs
Damn, nice work on this one! Really good pacing and transitions for both audio and visuals. The video was super engaging and it was awesome to see the level of research and time that went into it. I was a bit of a sceptic of FoD in doubles, but you have got me excited to give it a shot! I'll be excited to watch Reign! Thanks for making this, I'm excited to see what people think. I could definitely see more people getting on board with FoD doubles after this video!
I appreciate it Equi! Thank you so much for you input and thoughts for the video. Doubles forever baby!
Damn Jerami really pulled out the subway surfer and family guy clips to hold our attention spans hostage 😅
It had to be done 😂😂 attention spans are too bad for a 20 minute video 😂 and his footage sadly froze
@@JeramiJoseph make the screen bigger next time :) need stimulation
@@weebemo1 lol
I've been waiting for a video like this. I'm interested in melee stuff and what parts of fountain of dreams are broken, nice to finally see it
Hell yeah! So glad I could make something like this that you are enjoying! Same here with doubles! There are no doubles videos so I was excited to make something like this
Legalize Fountain of Dreams for doubles!
Sounds like a lot of people are on board! 👀
PewFat will return in the Alliance Strikes Back. I wish.
At least we are getting one of them! Stoked to see doubles on an upswing
why tf do the parts of video that feature axe have a subway surfer bit in the corner hahaha
His footage froze so y’all needed something to watch 😂
@@JeramiJoseph Yup. It's for ADHD folks like me.
Dave’s Stupid Rule and the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” are different. DSR is the rule that you cannot pick a stage you already won on. Gents is agreeing with your opponent to play on a stage where one of you already won (negating DSR)
Hot damn you’re right. I did explain it wrong oops. Totally missed that one 😂 thanks yo
@@JeramiJoseph no problem, awesome video! Pretty good ad for Reign ;)
@@Sleeepy. thanks homie! So excited for reign!
FOD being added would definitely help with balancing double fox. Team is still broken though
True that. Violence and pewpewu said it best. Could make for a more balanced event against fox
Thanks for the sensory videos during the frozen axe footage LOL
I got you brotha 😂😂😂
They’re already freezing Pokémon stadium so idk what’s stopping them. And that’s a WAY more drastic change.
Take ninentendo out and players would move to p+, because melee would become a low res p+ given the akenia build.
I’m not super sure about that! I played pm and melee in the beginning a decent amount but always gravitated towards melee. I like pm, it’s cool, but melee was always better imo
The subway surfers footage for Axe's segment lmao
Glad you liked it 😂
Cool video!
Appreciate it 😄
13:51 That thunder noise actually startled me because I thought it was real.
So the fact that you legitimately jump-scared me with Nintendo is pretty funny lol.
LOL sorry 😂
13:24 DSR but it stands for “Doubles stupid rule” instead
Either works with me!
I'm so down to try FOD doubles! As an avid doubles player, I loved this video. Can always count on Jerami to produce quality, interesting vids! Can't wait for the next one :)
Thank you so much Artie 😄
We're already freezing the Pokemon Stadium transformations, so Nintendo watching is already an issue with that 😅
That was one thing I thought of as well. but that gets into stuff that I don't understand for what we can change. thats why I did the testing on regular floor fod so we dont have any problems :D
something that some people dont seem to understand is that when you play the same character, the game has less loading to do since shared items don't need to be double loaded so the "four ics" experiment is not that good of a test. video was good though, just wanted to say
I am not saying that this will stop lag from happening as you showed it in this video, but I used to make custom stages and I would pick random characters to test for lag on console and many times it would crash when it was four unique characters instead of any duplicate of characters
This is a very interesting point and something I had no idea happened. After asking around it seemed that 4 Ic was the best move but it sounds like there is more testing that needs to be done like I stated at the end of the video. I appreciate your feedback! I hope we can get an expert to check if it’s possible to be a legal stage 😄
@@JeramiJoseph its likely not *that* significant but one specific instance i can recall was with the phoenix (valorant) and sheriff (gun) skin for falco. I would be 100% fine with 4 falcos but using unique characters with a falco using that skin would crash on select stages (possible poor stage optimization on my end, but idk)
now that I think more on this though I could be mistaken with how things render as they would crash on stage load and not mid game so maybe calling the textures and animations in game are done differently than the way the console would run out of memory while loading all the assets after the stage select screen.
@@buffbear7890 very great points. Yeah I’m not too sure honestly 😅 waiting to see if a few people can watch the video and hear their feedback though!
Where can I find details about the Reign event?
On Twitter @SEA_Reign!
The idea to have fountain in doubles as a legal stage seems like a really interesting and viable option. But the risks regarding nintendo is just too high.
Absolutely. But like said at the end of the video, we don’t have to change anything based on how slippi runs FoD currently. I tested it out with the normal stage we use today for singles and I didn’t have any problems. Is the only risk changing the rules and having fod being played on now raising Nintendo’s eyebrows saying “why are they playing on fod for doubles all of a sudden?” That was the only possible thing I could think of for negatives of playing on it
@@JeramiJoseph Ah, Yes. Apologies. Completely missed the point of Slippi being used within tournament play anyway. Then my mind is changed, I'd say it'd be quite interesting to see how it'd go having two small stages within the doubles rotation. Hopefully we'll be able to see if it'd be healthy or not at reign.
@@logan-ninja7495 you’re so good! It’s a lengthy video with a ton of info in it. Very excited a lot of people are also feeling it could be a legal stage! A few more lag tests and some tournament try outs, and maybe it could work!
This is very interesting for sure
Amazing video and the research was very thorough. It makes me want to see what the SSG team thinks about trying it out!
Thank you Ito! Yeah after an expert checks it out, I’m very excited to see if it can be implemented!
another certified jerami classic
Appreciate it 😍😍😍
I really don't take anything Cody has to say about alerting Nintendo that seriously ever since he denounced the universal adoption of 1.03 for the same or similar reasons. Seemed like an entirely self-serving justification for his expensive controller more than anything else so I wouldn't put it past the quintessential soulless Fox main to argue in favor of not adopting FOD for doubles based purely on it benefitting his character not to.
It could be like that. Idk what his real intentions are, and he made a good point. But with the testing I did we can already play on fod as is through slippi. Especially with slippi being standard at all tournaments especially majors.
Maybe he wants as little as fox nerf as possible. Coming from a fox main and this is his job, I get it. But he and axe were the only top doubles players to respond for an interview about doubles. The more I think about it, the more I want more testing done and to actually implement the stage with the small stages stupid rule
@@JeramiJoseph Fair enough. I don't hate Cody or anything I just strongly disagree with arguments against the universal adoption of 1.03 because I think it would make the game more accessible and thereby benefit the scene greatly to do so.
My soulless Fox main jab was mostly a joke. Cody is obviously insanely great at the game and his skill with Fox serves as a display of just how sick Melee is.
I like what you're doing here so keep up the good work. An extra stage for doubles would be a net gain in my view no matter what detractors/skeptics might say. The more stages the better is an easy calculation in my book.
@@muttweedz appreciate the watch my guy :D
Not sure if someone else has said this but 4 Marths is harder for the GCN/Wii to process than 4 Ice Climbers. More textures are loaded for one Marth than a Nana & Popo
Oh wow. That’s good to know! I def wanna try that out now
I’ve also had several TO’s try out fod for doubles in tournaments and it’s been fine so far!
Words to the wise:
Can't make a hoe into a housewife
Lol
Sorry I’ve been gone on comments good video Jerami
You’re so good! Thanks for being here 😄
Good video and the pew fat sclusie put it over the top
So glad you liked it! Tysm for checking it out 😄
Didn't watch the video. Fountain of dreams is very pretty and should always be legal because of nostalgia.
Def give it a view if you got some time! Back in the day fod didn’t work in doubles and now it actually might without any problems!
LEGALIZE KONGO JUNGLE
Idk about that 😅
Really cool to see what some of the top community heads opinions are on the topic. I feel like Blurs Stupid Rule could be interesting to see played out if we gave FoD a chance during a few events with community feedback after each to discuss whether it’s appreciated or disliked. Also that ending clip 🥹
I’m super excited to see if it fountain of dreams can be implemented into doubles as well. Very exciting future for dubs 👀 pewfat is coming back eventually!?
Great video ! 🔥🔥
Thank you so much!
I don't know enough to have an opinion about this but it's a super interesting video lol
Glad you gave it a watch! I myself don’t have a final answer either. I want my work double checked by an expert. I really wanted the video to be a discussion though and it’s really making people think. That’s all that matters!
@@JeramiJoseph and doubles is so sick, anything that gets people thinking about it or that might make people watch is dope
@@gravityvertigo13579 exactly what I was thinking too! Very excited to see more people talk about doubles!
I would be super down to try out fountain with the small stages stupid rule. I think some more testing on FOD with the reflections needs to happen but if it seems to work, fuck it. Lets run it.
Oh baby. From fod hater to “let’s run it”. Vid served well 😍
Doubles…😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ahhh cmon I knew someone would say something 😂 more people gotta give it a chance. It really is great. And could help keep melee alive more than ever due to its sick dynamic and combos
Great video!
Thank you so much! 😄
Dope ill give it a shot at my local that i TO sick video dude! I love doubles so more stages for more gameplay is great to see!
Wow this is so cool to hear! PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW IT GOES. Or link me the stream. I’d love to watch. I’ve been playing doubles on that stage since starting this video and haven’t had any problems. I also haven’t played it in tournament though so it’s still very much in the air. I think an expert would need to run a test on the stage to really check my work but it sounds like we are so close to making this happen!
This is an interesting topic. But I have a slightly different question. If we are allowed to change certain stages for the ruleset, then, would it also be a good idea to make character buffs via Slippy? That way, everyone that plays Slippy will be getting buffed characters to have an easier time in the competitive setting.
That’s a great question. However, it’s out of my realm of knowledge for melee. My biggest thing is that we are already playing on slippi fod without making any changes and doubles seems to work on that. Nothing needs to be done and we can just implement it into doubles already! I really can’t say about character buffs. Fod seems to be the only stage that could be added into the doubles ruleset
the problem with buffing characters is coming up with a list that most people agree on. legalizing fod is one decision but buffing a character can potentially be multiple, and buffing many you can see how it gets a little out of hand. of course you can also just say "play pal" which has some pretty reasonable balance changes but sadly no one wants to hear that apparently.
@@rafaelarevalo8047 those are great points. I’ve heard a lot of people talking about PAL recently and they have some good arguments. Someone should make a video on it…
@@rafaelarevalo8047 We could limit the amount of decisions that should be made in any given patch notes by making a set structure. For example, we could have a three section structure: patched stage, character jank/bugs, and buffed character. Each section should only contain changes for one stage or character per patch notes. This way, we can segment all our possible choices into a tree of choices. When we choose which character to buff, we then go to the main players of that character and ask for their recommendations. If the buffs were too much, we can use a backup of the previous patch to rollback from the new changes. That's just a suggestion though...
@@hotrod8903 I like dividing changes into categories. At least that gives us some way of standardizing the changes and giving adequate rationales for them. I can definitely see a kind of organization like this very useful if we're to actually talk about this for some community project to modify the game. Just to give my opinion, I think most people would tend toward wanting to fix what you call jank/bugs (G&W's aerials, Luigi's dash attack, etc.) and stage fixes (Stadium's drop through floor?) rather than character buffs (or even nerfs, for that matter), and I personally think the most reasonable way of changing the game is just to act as if it just had more time to work out the weird kinks*, assuming the balance decisions were more or less right from the start, with the only ones properly "intended" for being the ones PAL addresses, and not try to play dev as it were and come up with our own knowing all we know about the game and considering our built-in biases because of that knowledge. Hope that makes sense.
*there's a separate discussion, by the way, about where the line is between "accidental oversight" and "genuine decision to balance the character this way". I couldn't tell where something like G&W's shield stands there, or Luigi's DAFT or down tilt, for example.
FLAMES!!!
Thank you Austin!
Nice
Thank you
12:52 nahhhh stim with movement is crazy
What?
@@JeramiJoseph bro i was on some crack idk what i meant
@@InfurnozzPlayzMC LOL
@@InfurnozzPlayzMC lmao
Proud to be one of the ice climbers players spamming down b in this video 🫡 elite work from Jerami as always!
Appreciate you dawg! Maybe after some testing we give fod doubles a run at one of the tourneys??? Gotta have some people giving it a go! 👀
Really cool video. Would 100000% watch more
Appreciate it dawg! Thanks for watching. Def share the vid and hopefully we can see if this could be something 😍
12:08 lol
😂
Cody isn’t fine with removing fod reflections but is fine with UCF that has a big fat water mark on the CSS
There's a stealth mode of UCF used in tournaments without watermarks
Great point, however like @hack3900-2 said, you can remove the watermark yeah
@@Hack--rz1io great point
I could be wrong, but i think doubles on FoD on Wii works fine. Just due to better processers, just like some glitches.
Maybe on UCF or some other type of melee from nintendont. However, the footage I showed towards the beginning of the video as “vanilla melee” is from a wii with just normal melee in it. I was having a ton of lag issues even with me and 3 other CPU’s
@@JeramiJoseph The reasoning for this is because when using melee on wii without nintendont, the console downclocks to match the clockrate of the gamecube. However, when using nintendont (doesn’t even have to be the slippi one) the game will run using the wii’s full clock speed which is considerably faster.
@@MrNapkino that’s really great to know! I had no idea clock speed was a thing to be honest 😅
i love pewpewu :')
Same here. Such a nice guy! I hope you watched till the very end. There is a surprise after the outro 👀
@@JeramiJoseph yaa!! can't wait to see them play again
@@chairwood one day 😍
This video about to take off ✈️
God I hope so. Please share 😍
7:00
Amazing video
Thank you so much!
Are there frame drops in FoD in singles with Ice Climer dittos? What about when both side b?
I did only two ic in singles and didn’t have any frame drops no. When they both side b, I wasn’t able to get any frame drops either!
@@JeramiJosephI meant to say down b, but you know what I meant 😆. Okie dokie
@@MoneyBark oh gotcha! But yeah, I tested with each IC using down b in singles and no problems with the test I used!
Box is an absolutely goated falco player crazy you got him in a video 🫡
He honestly is. Helped me a lot with theorizing the video! Huge shoutout to him!
Maybe its a meme I'm unaware of, but FriendlyJordies did the gag you did with family guy and subway surfer. From what I can tell he's aware enough of Smash Bros competitive and featured HBox vs Armada at EVO in one of his videos as a gag, so it's possible that he's a viewer of your's. Obviously I don't think this is an issue, I just thought it was potentially cool given how small you are.
ua-cam.com/video/mygy4SbiC3c/v-deo.html
Wow that’s actually so wild. I’m going to guess it’s a coincidence but if he got it from my vid, that’s p cool!
@@JeramiJoseph idk man it was both Family Guy and Subway Surfer used in the same exact way it was done here. And with him referencing Melee in a video in a competitive light it's definitely possible, and if I'm trusting my gut I'd put money on it that he took that joke from you. Again, not that that's a problem, I just think it's cool that he might be watching low-key Melee content.
@@Thomas-nz4si that's super tight. I guess in the sense if he took my joke, sure that blows. but I think he talked about it in a different way so it's cool! the ol yoink and twist. I just hope he makes more melee content so more people have eyes on the game. more people deserve to play the best game ever :D