The Odysseus and the Pre-Owned Market of A. Lange & Söhne with Mike Manjos | A Lange Story
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- Опубліковано 18 лис 2022
- Host Alp Sever is joined by Mike Manjos of WatchBox to discuss the history of A. Lange & Söhne on the pre-owned market, the launch of the Odysseus, and the performance of the brand.
Alp begins the episode by tracking the history of the brand’s performance in the modern era, with pieces like the Tourbillon Pour le Mérite, Lange 1 Editions, and Double Split all returning with positive auction results. He then discusses the Odysseus and what the first foray into steel sports watches meant for A. Lange & Söhne. Then, he turns to Mike Manjos for an interview tracking the brand and its relation to the watch market.
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Hello guys, Alp here.
I wanted to thank you all for your time, kind words and patience so far with the series. I am truly humbled by your response. I hope that it was valuable and worthy of your time, and the series would be a go-to address for whoever looking to learn more on A. Lange & Söhne.
Please know that I took notes on your valuable criticism on my presentation and I am definitely going to work on it to make it much more enjoyable for you in the future. Dearly appreciate it to those who take their time to point out how we can make it better.
And finally a huge thanks to incredible WatchBox team for making this possible.
Cheers,
Alp
Hey Alp, Tomasina here.
I really can't stand them, or most of the AP's, they should really go back to making pull lever adding machines or whatever it is they look like.
Very good series Alp. Excellent insights and you can see your passion for the brand. Well done
@@tomasinacovell4293 thank you Tomas. Can’t compare AP to AL&S. Entirely different. Hope you’re having a good day man
@@dizzlechazzle154 Thank you very much, Sir! Dearly appreciate it.
This was a true pleasure!
Alp, I am a long-time Lange collector from Australia and have been fortunate to visit the Manufactory in Glashütte several times. Like you, I have such respect for the brand, the DNA evident in their watches - and for the people who work there. Thank you and congratulations on this wonderful and comprehensive series - I watched and thoroughly enjoyed every video. You presented your experienced views thoughtfully and in a balanced & objective manner, and with high production values. A passion project really well done. I continue to wish Lange well - they, and their magnificent pieces, hold a uniquely special place in my heart always. I wish you and Langepedia well too, sir. Cheers, Andrew.
Many thanks for your kind words, Andrew. Dearly appreciate it! Cheers, please feel free to reach out anytime!
Alp, this series was a void that needed to be filled. Thank you for your collaborative effort with watchbox and generously sharing your deep Langepedia knowledge. I look forward to your continued growth and you sharing the passion for one of greatest watchmakers on earth. Prost.
Thank you very much, Adolf! Prost!
My favourite brand by far ❤
My favorite brand , I have Pateks but my Lange by far is my Grail watch
Thank you, Alp, for the excellent video series, and also for the information-packed Langepedia website. Outside of watch enthusiast circles, I believe Lange is still a relatively undiscovered brand, perhaps much like Patek was more than a decade ago. But discerning people are gradually discovering the superior quality, craftsmanship and engineering of Lange pieces. And I believe there are certain Lange pieces today that in ten years we will look back on as complete bargains. I would include in this list most limited editions, short productions, all honey gold pieces, and of course the earlier pieces that have already experienced a rise in demand.
If you consider the superior quality of Lange combined with the annual production of Lange (in a good year around 5000), growing worldwide demand will inevitably drive future secondary market prices higher.
Hello there, and many thanks for your kind words!!
I certainly agree. It is still within the watch circles, though the brand is trying to open up with new partnerships, events, etc.. Very well put.
Great video, thank you! Alp, you've gotten so much more comfortable in front of the camera, huge change from the first video in the series, this last in the series feels like the beginning of many more great videos to come! This was my favorite video so far, look forward to seeing what comes next.
Dearly appreciate your kind words, my friend. Many thanks for your time and please feel free to reach out anytime!
probably one of the best watch related youtube video series i've ever consumed. thanks!
Great value from this video guys oh I also love Lange I’ve got a blue dial white gold early lange1 1997
Awesome example, Brian! Enjoy in the best of days!
Thanx I enjoy wearing it
Great video Alp. Love the pieces, love the brand. Love Langepedia. 🥃
Thank you Russell, dearly appreciate it buddy. And love you back!
Thanks for this series, Alp
Thank you for your time, Moe!
amazing series... Thank you so much!
Great Video and content, thank you. I have two Lange pieces and I will only purchase other Langes’ at a significant discount, at least 25 to 30 percent off retail. I agree with Mike, bundling is a terrible practice because you force consumers to look at other options in the market, a Vacheron well below retail etc. Most, 90% of my collection has been purchased from the secondary market with full box and papers. Some of my purchases were 50% of the original retail price, JLC, H. Moser, and Breguet. I only purchase brands with high equity, no brands that are unknown or a flash in the pan. I will not pay above retail, ever, especially for a FP Journe or other great brands and Rolex too. Purchasing a Rolex above retail is ridiculous. Lange is one of my favorite brands, maybe a Datograph platinum at a discount only.
Hello Thomas, thank you very much.
Congratulations on your pieces and purchasing them at great prices. Indeed, I also tend to look away where things skyrocket. However, I am not entirely protected from it. If a first generation platinum Datograph is $80k, then it is what it is. Over the retail when it was discontinued, but fully deserves it. So are the some early Lange 1s, tourbillon pour le Mérite from 1994, etc.. Therefore I'd say, for me, there're watchees to pay over retail, and there are other ones.
My thoughts exactly.
Where can you buy these Lange’s at such a discount other than used ones? Thanks
@@connect4558 Grey market dealers.
It was amazing thank you
Thank you, Matteo!
0:12 Shocking to see a date window misaligned like that.
L1 Perpetual Tourbillon is a very, very hard piece to adjust as far as ı understand. No two pieces are the same. Some of them just switch 2 minutes after mid night, some before, but there's always a variation and is really prone to such things. At least this is my experience with the bunch I have had the pleasure to handle both at the manufacture visits, or with collectors' pieces.
@@alpsever5279 Interesting take on it. The higher you go the more issues to correct.
It's complicated
Interesting but alot of questions. 1 being is popularity good in terms of sales? Is it shared value rather than personal value both financially and ideals(when popularity rules)?
If you mean Lange 1 by "1", yes I think it is one of the best sellers of the brand. As I recall, even the basic models have a waitlist for some time, especially the platinum and yellow gold variants.
Could you explain your second question please?
@@alpsever5279 well really the identity in choice. These seem like choices heavily guide by the interpretation of others(popularity) and sudden popularity. I feel this is more of an enthusiast mindset and colonial "powell-wow" is backing it up by pushing these values into the market. I don't believe $75k watch that requires substantial amount of foundational value suddenly becomes more popular like the Keebler elf decided he can get one too and so can his cookie customers so he just will. Just saying... it's all a blurry line of constitution at the point if the framework is "I'll supposedly sell to anyone in exchange for their housing mortgage finance", kind-of propaganda . I was surprised someone answered, my conclusion was ultimately the promotion of popularity on these timepieces are the exchange for new entry level customers. But yes if that is true I find it difficult to believe Lange & Sohne is the choice for this kind of exchange. It actually seems like a humorous fabrication that may have gone off the deep end with this idea that, that is likely done. They are just not enthusiast watches and almost built to be polar opposite of such. Maybe next "cult popularity of Dornbluth goes full mainstream." Cutting edge stuff. "Jump on the bandwagon now and some lucky customers might find themselves in a position to buy a Hamilton in the near future"
Good stuff but I've gone on, again.
Other than that it would simply be used to block the mindset of the market. Everyone is composing to understand the market of timepieces but a few renegades companies want to block it? Heh, like "turn off UA-cam the content creators are getting tired of promoting things you aren't going to buy anytime soon." Which is an interesting concept because once you are committed to the interest of higher timepieces I'm not so sure there is a block or stop button especially if you start buying them with value. Maybe that's just the German humor of A. Lange & Sohne, that it is interesting because they are claiming there is a stop button on these royal interests.(but there isn't one)🙂
@@cooz0977 socially enthusiastically. Trite but spurious. In sketch but also depth. Well done my friend
i agree some of the view (most w/ mike)
if you always require a customer to have good purchase record or "loyal" to the brand
one day he/she will gone, although new customer may come
but the brand reputation can never be recovery
i don't say selling more watches for a company is wrong (or meeting a target)
but see if they learn from their brothers Panerai
one hidden reason is simple: ALS will always focus on dress watch, people will get bored even they developing lots of new movement and ideas
Thanks for watching.
Following our discussion with Mike, there happened to be a leak on IG documenting the sales process of the brand, there you can see tiers, etc. The interesting point that most "loyal" customers went through however, they were asked heavier bundles compared to new comers.
I kindly disagree with your last comment. For a brand with such low production volume and somewhat rich catalogue, with persistant innovation both in terms of design and mechanics as they did over the last 28 years, I don't see people getting bored. Some brands continuously existing for centuries are good examples I think. One more; I think the development on Odysseus line is inevitable, hence we'll see more focus on there too.
@@alpsever5279 in my case my bundle same as new comers. perhaps some sells recognize they can sell more to "old customer"(since they know they can afford more)
as far as i know the hardest watch to get is Titanium Odysseus, second is latest lumen
compare to PP, ALS bundle is a small one
I've loved the brand for years, and own a 1815 Auf / Ab, but I am losing a lot of respect for them since their change in distribution policy, that sees them undercutting their AD's. No matter how many A.L&S one has purchased at an AD, this history and loyalty is discarded by the brand as only Boutique purchases count towards getting a hard to get, Boutique exclusive model. And their practise of bundling sales is simply despicable. I am like Mike, very disappointed. It's the kind of stuff one expects from other brands, but if there was one brand I never thought would entertain them, it's A.L&S. I guess this is what happens when a car salesman gets put in charge of a traditional, luxury watch brand.
Right, that's a common pain among many old-time Lange enthusiasts as well. E.g. many bought their pieces from the ADs, simply because there was not any boutiques in the region. In time, when the boutiques opened up, many reported that their purchases through the ADs do not count - even if they held the pieces and they need to start over; which I don't get.
And as Mike and yourself aptly put, the bundling word by the brand is out there, which is not the way to go. Still, Lange enjoys tremendous commercial success and still makes great watches, so I prefer to focus on the latter!
@@alpsever5279 Hello Alp. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I agree that the watches are fantastic, but the way A.L&S behaves these days is a deterrent, at least for me. Especially when a brand like Breguet, which is incredibly underrated (not unlike A.L&S a few years ago) produces great models one can still get at an AD with a decent discount. That's where my money would go if I was to buy another haute horlogerie piece. That, or a Vacheron.
Can't stand the way this guy pronounces Odysseus
Will this shit ever end?
I really can't stand them, or most of the AP's, they should really go back to making pull lever adding machines or whatever it is they look like.
ALS is the greatest watchmaker in the world. Nothing more to say.
Mike really likes that blue sports coat…
I suspect he has a wardrobe full of that one
I suspect it’s the same coat every time