Ben Affleck is a lot like Andrew Garfield's Spider Man to me. He absolutely could've been the best actor to play the character, especially a more seasoned, older Bruce Wayne. Unfortunately the way he was characterized and lacking direction with the overall DCEU really hampered him. For all its flaws, I'm at least glad he got a solid final scene in The Flash with his conversation with Barry, where I feel like Ben Affleck really nailed what makes Bruce Wayne a compelling character, giving us a peak at what could've been.
That’s a perfect way to sum it up. I think Ben Affleck could’ve been the perfect Dark Knight Returns Batman. Shame Zack fucked up so badly that we will never get to see that
I always felt that Mask of the Phantasm was often overlooked due to being an animated movie and its bad trailer. You didn't NEED to watch the series it's tied to in order to understand the movie. It works well as a stand-alone. And I get that you prefer a more uplifting movie, but I think this movie does better without it as not every story has a happy ending. The whole premise of Batman's story here was that he is consumed with tragedy. His arc with Andrea added more to it as he tried to move on from his parents and find happiness, but fate took that chance away from him.
I am all about the Tim Burton Batman films and Mask of the Phantasm. Mask and Batman Returns are my all time favorite Batman Films, tied for first place. Those films all capture the essence of the character FAR better than any of the others except maybe The Batman as an adaptation of Batman Year One
So you’re missing the arc in the keaton Batman films; for the first two acts of Batman 89 you’ll notice that Batman doesn’t kill, even when he drops Jack they make a point of showing Batman didn’t mean to. Once Bruce finds out that Joker killed his parents he fell off the deep end and started murdering Joker goons en masse, he also didn’t love Vicki, he was going through the motions spurred on by Alfred, this all carries into Returns, the melancholy feel of this film is a direct result of Bruce’s own inner feelings as a result of the last film and also the reverse is true here; Batman indiscriminately kills Penguin goons for the first two acts then finally; through Catwomans tragedy he sees the flaw in his ways; she’s the one he sees as a kindred spirit, she’s the one he actively pursues and she’s the one he tries to save by stopping her from killing Shrexk at the films climax; this is the two film arc for Bruce; learning to cope with his immense pain, learning why to save a life and learning to love another human.
I always thought those two movies were about Bruce Wayne having this dark secret which meant he could never have a normal life. The first movie he flirts with being normal but the joker forces him to choose to be Batman. In Returns he finds other outsiders like himself, and flirts with going full outsider mode, but takes off his mask when Selina kills Max.
@@kwible3682 I would say it’s executed quite well, it’s nuanced a bit and not right in your face being explained every step of the way but it’s all on screen if ya know how to dig a little deeper into your film watching experience
Don't put things that aren't there lol, that's like saying Tim Hollands trilogy was an origin, when really they fumbled and tried to pretend they meant to do that at the very end
Honestly a lot of the issues with Joel Schumacher’s Batman came down to the studio. A lot of parents hated the dark tone of Tim Burton so they replaced him. And when you look at his other movies he wasn’t a bad choice it’s just the studio who wanted it to be “kid friendly” and ended up failing in the end.
This might be one of your hardest worked video yet, while i dont find myself agreeing with your takes, i am still subscribed as i like your style and its always good to see peoples different opinions and how its not a "im right your wrong". Keep up the great work!
Mask of Phantasm & Batman Begins are tied for my favorite Batman movie with Dark knight being 2nd & The Batman being 3rd. Begins holds such a dear place in my heart because its the only one of the nolan trilogy that feels like it can be fantastical & above all else Begins much like Sam raimi's Spiderman understands that the audiences like the cape & fighting villains so long as you care about the man behind the mask, Bale just embodies Bruce so well everytime he is in danger I get tense because the movie let me know him as a person not an idea but a person. Also another thing that the Nolan movies deserves the absolute credit for is the character of Lucius fox yes the character existed in comics prior to Begins but Batman Begins in the movie that made Fox into a genuine character that comics have completely co-opted. Batman begins made Lucius in an actual character with motivations, intelligence, business knowlage & confidant for Bruce everything we today love about the character comes from Batman begins.
Generally agree all around, and especially with how good Pattinson is. There's so much to his portrayal, so many subtleties, so much attention paid to the way he moves and even just stands, so much he conveys with microexpressions, that I just find it light-years more thorough than any other iteration.
Batman Forever was the first Batman film I saw, so I can't see it without nostalgia goggles xD It's silly and over the top, but it's entertaining! I will raise one thing though, I would absolutely LOVE to see an "extended re-cut edition" cause it would be a totally different movie! Dr Burton coming in to Harvey's cell, only to find out that Two Face has hanged a security guard and escaped. And then we got that giant bat scene
56:58 Not a fan of this change. I understand why people would see Bruce already having no kill rule as unrealistic, but I think it makes sense when consider Bruce's father was a doctor (so he would taught Bruce the value of life) and also Bruce's trauma. He doesn't kill just bc it's morally wrong, but also bc he associate this action with the man who killed his parents (hence why in many versions post Golden Age, Batman hates guns).
Mask of the Phantasm of probably one of the absolute best Batman movies of all time. The plot and pacing are all perfect. BTAS was the definitive version of Batman for me and every kid that watched it after school every day.
If you would like suggestions of movie franchises to analyze, might I suggest: Transformers- the Micheal Bay movies, Bumblebee, ROTB, and the animated movies One and 1986 Superman Spider-man- The Raimi trilogy, Amazing Spider-man 2 movies, MCU, and Spider-Verse movies X-Men- From the 2000 movie to Dark Phoenix (even though it should've ended with Logan)
I'm working through the video slowly, so I'll have to see how your other opinions shake out, but it is SO refreshing to find someone else who doesn't see the Burton films as these irreproachable masterpieces. I never found them to offer anything other than a great aesthetic and some cool performances. I find the actual plotting, character work, and thematic elements to be borderline incomprehensible, and I really don't get how they've maintained such a stellar reputation beyond just nostalgia. Edit: so we're pretty much aligned on our takes all the way through lol
I am the biggest fan of Batman and Robin. It's not like I was kid when it came out I wasn't even born, but I find it so rewatchable, and probably have seen it more than any other batman. Sure, I don't think it's the best batman movie, but it probably also has the least flaws as it does everything it wants exactly as it wants. I also think this film is better than batman and robin as well.
I really enjoyed this video! I grew up on the Tim Burton Batman movies and after seeing Batman Forever and Batman and Robin I thought the Tim Burton movies were the last great Batman movies, but that all changed when I saw the Christopher Nolan films. I think I'm one of the rare 40 year olds who prefers the Nolan films over the Burton ones. Batman Begins was a fantastic Batman origin story and The Dark Knight totally broke the mold. I completely agree with all the points you made about The Dark Knight. Very well said. The Dark Knight Rises, to me, was the weakest link but still a decent Batman movie.
I just realised that batman 89 and returns relevance and significance on Bruce as a character isn’t touched on until forever when robin enters the picture. When Kilmers Bruce says “your pain doesn’t die with Harvey it grows and you run out into the night to find another face, and another and another; Until one terrible morning you realise revenge has become your life.” It addresses Batman’s killing in the previous films and paints a picture of who this batman is throughout the series.
Batman is the most awesome yet overplayed superhero. That has ever been around. Batman has technically had an incarnation. Of his character, world, arch gallery of villains, and allies. Since his creation in the comic books. Because for most of cinema, and television history. He is the easiest Superhero to get right since. He has no supernatural powers or abilities. Filmmakers can use Sherlock Holmes as an example of how to handle. One area of Batman’s expertise. Plus it’s basically the story of a rich kid with mommy/daddy issues. That resolves to fight the criminal element of Gotham. Yet do very little of anything else for the ordinary folk of Gotham. A character that could be somewhat relatable to the producers and Hollywood elite. Honestly I’m glad that ever since Wonder (Superman The Movie from 1978 also comes to mind) Woman. DC has been more keen. For giving other DC superheroes a chance to shine in the spotlight.
So as someone who watch Batman: The Animated Series and all the Batman movies of the 90's, here's something I think that's worth noting... The Animated Series did a remarkable job of treating the villains with respect and depth. Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, The Riddler, and most definitely Two-Face. They were so well-written and interesting (I think particularly Freeze and Two-Face), that when they were so horribly disrespected on the big screen, it was even more jarring. I couldn't figure out - and still can't - how The Riddler just became Joker Lite, and Two-Face could become Riddler Lite! It never made sense to me, so I'd definitely recommend watching at least certain episodes of The Animated Series.
Christian Bale is my favorite live action Batman because his take was the closest to who the character actually is. Unlike the other actors who were inspired by different versions from the comics. Affleck's version is connected to Frank Miller, while Pattinson's version is connected to Miller's year one. Bale's version is connected to Conroy's, as well as the source material itself
Bale is ok, but he is too much of a grounded take on the character to really fit the source material. The voice is laughable, the costume too realistic, and his alfred and the series is RUINED by Dark Knight Rises. It retroactively poisoned all 3 movies for me.
@@billymoore7182 he did, and the first 2 films are great. However the “realism” makes the costume more boring, the batmobile is an ugly slab of garbage, bane is stupid, their “realistic” work in of “robin” was pandering crap. Almost all my problems with Nolans movies come from Rises but many of the issues were throughout the series as well such as “batman doesnt kill” but “i dont have to save you” not fitting the characters morality. Gordon in the trilogy is perfection however, joker and harvey dent are GREAT, scarecrow could have been more but was a decent adaptation. Alfred in nolans movies is meh to sucking though. Torn on his catwoman, hate the ears being goggles flipped up, embrace the costumes
Great video. But I think you missed one. There was another movie set in the TAS show, focusing on Mr Freeze as the villain. Sub-Zero, and it too was awesome :)
I think Gotham City in the Nolan trilogy is actually really interesting in the way of Nolans use of time passing. In batman begins Gotham is completely grimy, gross, chaotic, on the verge of collapse. In dark knight it looks Normal showing Batmans effect on the city. In dark knight rises it’s kinda sterile and empty and bleak because of the dent act and eventually Banes take over. Gotham to me in the nolan trilogy was at it’s best in Begins because it still feels like Gotham City.
What does Bane want? Why does Bane want what he wants? Bane literally says in the movie that he wants to finish the League of Shadows' job of destroying Gotham that was left unfinished in Batman Begins and clearly wanted to prove to Bruce Wayne that he was a better apprentice to Ras al Ghul than he was. I don't agree that he's an overrated and flat villain, for a reason he's more remembered than most of the villains in the MCU and the DC Cinematic Universe.
Rises was about Bruce overcoming his despair, and the Pit is a metaphor for depression, in that on the surface it appears easy to escape from, but to the person inside of it, it seems impossible. The fact that he did eventually find a reason to live again was legitimately inspiring and holds a positive, life affirming message to not fall into nihilistic apathy about the world like Bane and Talia do. The movie imo is immensely underappreciated.
Stop thinking that you need to empathize with a villain for them to be a good villain. I can't empathize with Hannibal Lecter's love for human flesh. That doesn't change the fact that he's a damn good villain.
Batman's rule about no killing was the change, not the other way around. The origin of the character had NO rule of that nature. He even used a revolver at the start.
Your wrong about “ Batman Returns “ Selina Kyle didn’t die from that fall . The awnings that she went through slowed her down . She survived but with a concussion .
Kinda late but honestly to add on to Matt Reeves Batman with Pattinson, the ending for that movie gave me huge Nolan energy in Dark Knights ending with the similarities imo, I have yet to dedicate 2-3 hours to watching The Batman again unfortunately so maybe this can change for me but that was something I noticed walking out of my midnight premiere
Most of my rankings would probably be more generous than yours. Batman Begins - 10 The Dark Knight - 10 Batman Returns - 8 The Dark Knight Rises - 8 Batman Forever - 7 The Batman - 7 Batman v Superman - 6 Batman 89 - 6 Batman 66 - 5 Batman and Robin - 4
Right, instead of watching the newest mediocre forgettable Star Wars show, rather watch some Beetlejuice, Sweeney Todd, Nightmare Before Christmas and Edward Scissorhands
Movie Ranking: 1. The Batman 2. The Dark Knight 3. Batman Begins 4. Mask of the Phantasm 5. The Dark Knight Rises 6. The Lego Batman Movie 7. Batman 89 8. Batman Returns 9. BvS 10. Batman Forever 11. Batman 66 12. Batman and Robin Batman Ranking: 1. Keven Conroy 2. Robert Pattinson 3. Christian Bale 4. Will Arnett 5. Michael Keaton 6. Ben Affleck 7. Adam West 8. Val Kilmer 9. George Clooney
16:14 u interpreted him “liking her” as kinda a joke, as he really wants to “go on a date” to capture her and lure out Batman. He seems to discard her immediately when she’s no longer useful
Batman is not an addiction. Bruce Wayne is the mask, BATMAN is who he truly is. Bruce Wayne is and always will be Batman underneath it all. It is not an addiction, it is crusade, a pursuit of justice to save others from ever suffering as he has. Everything he does in his life is about saving lives and doing the right thing, its why in Mask when he falls in love with Andrea he begs at his parents grave to let him forsake what he stands for but he cannot because he cannot let anyone else suffer just so he can be happy. He can never be happy if to do so lets someone die.
I disagree about Keaton's Batman not having an arc. The 89 film works more as introduction, with Vicky Vale acting as the POV. It's through her eyes we the audience get to know Keaton's Batman and see his battle against the Joker. Returns show the aftermath of the previous film, with Bruce going back at being reclusive after Vicky left him. Even after killing the Joker, the man who killed his parents, and having earn the trust of the public, Bruce still driven to be Batman. This is where his conflict with the three villains (penguin, Shreck and Catwoman) comes in. Each villain acts a reflection of Batman: Penguin represents the side of Bruce who sees himself as an outcast, Max Shreck represents his rich persona and Selina represents his vigilante persona. His relationship with Selina isn't in the film just give Bruce a love interest. Selina acts as reflection of what will happen to Bruce if continue to be loner, close from others and killing criminals. If Burton had stick around in Forever, I pretty sure he would have kept Robin's subplot (specially considering how he tried to include the Boy Wonder in his films since 89). That whole scene where Bruce tells Dick what will happen if he killed Two Face it's basically Bruce describing everthing that happened to him since 89 and doesn't want Dick to follow his path and make the same mistakes or worse, end up like Selina.
The notion of Keaton's Batman having an arc raises a question. Is Keaton's Batman just the Batman he played in those two films or is it the same character (played by two other actors) in the Schumacher films? At the time we thought it was the latter. Batman Forever wasn't presented as a reboot. Even later on when the DVDs were sold, Warners marketed it as "the Batman quadrilogy", implying that the four films were linked. (They did share an Alfred at least.)
@@rp1692 I think they were all the same version considering how all the Batmen share the same Alfred and Gordon. The change of tone could even be explained as result of Batman presence in Gotham and the rise of his rogues, with his world becoming less darker and gothic and more colorful and campy, very sililar to how it happened in his comics during the end of the golden age and beginning of the silver age.
My list in order best to worst : The Batman , Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Batman 89, Batman Return , Dark Knight rises, Batman v Superman, Mask Phatasm, Batman Forever, Batman Lego, Batman 66, Batman Robin .
40:30 Wait, but you were just saying the point of Batman's arc in Batman Forever was that he learns to embrace being both Bruce Wayne and Batman. In that sense, Batman being able to save both of them is important to the theme of this movie, because he doesn’t need to choose. That being said 9/10 times this is an annoying trope. But I think it works here.
NO the martha scene is not "he also has a mother" its "you are causing your parent death again" when he says "they're going to kill martha" batmans PTSD kicks in and it causes him to realize that he is causing the same thing that happend to him. He is letting his parents die AGAIN the whole origin of batman is wrapped up in that. sorry about all the quotations
Here is my personal ranking of the films. I did a rewatch last year not including BVS. I'm not for sure about the actors: 1. The Batman - 9.5/10 (Peak; Top 10 Films of all time imo) 2. The Dark Knight - 9.5/10 (Peak; Top 10 Films of all time imo) 3. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm - 8/10 (Great) 4. Batman Begins - 7/10 (Good) 5. The Lego Batman Movie - 6.5/10 (Fairly Decent) 6. Batman (1989) - 6/10 (Decent) 7. Batman Returns - 5/10 (Mediocre) 8. Batman Forever - 4.5/10 (Not Good) 9. Batman (1966) - 4.5/10 (Not Good) 10. The Dark Knight Rises - 2.5/10 (Really Bad) 11. Batman and Robin - 1/10 (Horrible)
Hot take Nicholson's Joker >>>>>>> Ledger's Joker Don't get me wrong. I like TDK and see why Ledger's Joker became one the most iconic adaptation of the clown prince of crime in the films. However the film having Joker wanting to break Gotham's people spirit by corrupting Harvey kind defeats the point of his character, that he has no plan. Nicholson's Joker, on other hand, nailed the chaotic nature of the villain. He's not trying to prove a point or make some statment about society. Nothing in him is straight to the point nor consistent, with Joker changing his mind in seconds. In the end, everthing he does is part of grand show and he is the main star. All Joker wants is to spread chaos in the city and let people know he did, like the "twisted artist" he sees himself as. It's something recent adaptations (usually post TDK) have lost about the Joker, focusing on having him being scary and a city level threat and forgetting that he's suppose to be a clown with a dark sense of humor.
I wouldn't put The Batman in a pedestal, I would say that the only saving grace that this movie has is the new miniseries The Penguin, that back pedals the ending of The Batman, because in the movie, Batman spend two hours and half preaching about the corruption in Gotham, about the police and the politicians, but by the third arc, the backtrack and bend the knee to the status quo, with the stupid Mayor and police scene, hell, I think that The Cape Crusader is making more close what The Batman should be than the movie itself, is a classical Noire, everyone is corrupt, and Bruce Wayne has anger issues.
Only BvS, which I did just do a video on so yeah I used my same points. I haven’t talked about any of the other Batman movies (except The Batman but I did a whole 30 min video on that)
Hotish take, I think Batman Begins is the best batman movie. Is the only Nolan film when gothan isn't just Chicago. It perfectly explores his origin and ideology, as well as it shows his training, Bale is perfect as Bruce, and his batman voice isn't a stupid as in the sequals, it has a great balance of realistic and supernatural, batman looks intimidating while in the sequals looks to skinny, and you don't even notice he can't move his head. Every prefomance is great, and Oldman is the best gordan.
@@BATDAN_92 my bad you're right, it was Batman 1943 movies serial and the other was Batman and Robin 1949 movie serial, I don't know where I got 1936 from 👍
I think you’re too harsh on the Tim Burton movies and too soft on Christopher Nolan’s movies. There’s no way you can put The Dark Knight Rises above the Burton movies nor putting Christian Bale above Michael Keaton
TDKR has only aged worse over time. It feels so plainly like a 2000’s CBM. I feel like Burtons films have an effortless and timeless charm to them. That being said Begins and TDK did break new ground totally and thematically and shouldn’t be slept on.
@@kdusel1991 I haven’t seen them. But I did think of that while I was writing the comment. But I haven’t seen it or have any knowledge about it. So it would be a lie.
Bruh completely missed sub zero and batman beyond return of the joker for animated movies. Also the plethora of batman content in Batman the animated series, justice league, justice leauge unlimited, and batman beyond. I get it's only movies and Kevin conroy reprises his role in all but God dam thay are too good to not watch especially BTAS the last laugh episode and JL wild cards for some excellent mark Hamill joker shenanigans 😂
Dude, you have to watch Batman: The Animated Series.
One of The best animated shows ever made.
@@chasehedges6775 agreed!! It's so good!!
New 52 series as well
Dude, correct!
Without a doubt my favorite Batman thing
Ben Affleck is a lot like Andrew Garfield's Spider Man to me. He absolutely could've been the best actor to play the character, especially a more seasoned, older Bruce Wayne. Unfortunately the way he was characterized and lacking direction with the overall DCEU really hampered him.
For all its flaws, I'm at least glad he got a solid final scene in The Flash with his conversation with Barry, where I feel like Ben Affleck really nailed what makes Bruce Wayne a compelling character, giving us a peak at what could've been.
That’s a perfect way to sum it up. I think Ben Affleck could’ve been the perfect Dark Knight Returns Batman. Shame Zack fucked up so badly that we will never get to see that
I always felt that Mask of the Phantasm was often overlooked due to being an animated movie and its bad trailer. You didn't NEED to watch the series it's tied to in order to understand the movie. It works well as a stand-alone. And I get that you prefer a more uplifting movie, but I think this movie does better without it as not every story has a happy ending. The whole premise of Batman's story here was that he is consumed with tragedy. His arc with Andrea added more to it as he tried to move on from his parents and find happiness, but fate took that chance away from him.
mask of the phantasm is amazing!!
The most perfect interpretation of Batman on film. It is perfection, the acting, the animation, the INCREDIBLE music.
I am all about the Tim Burton Batman films and Mask of the Phantasm. Mask and Batman Returns are my all time favorite Batman Films, tied for first place. Those films all capture the essence of the character FAR better than any of the others except maybe The Batman as an adaptation of Batman Year One
So you’re missing the arc in the keaton Batman films; for the first two acts of Batman 89 you’ll notice that Batman doesn’t kill, even when he drops Jack they make a point of showing Batman didn’t mean to. Once Bruce finds out that Joker killed his parents he fell off the deep end and started murdering Joker goons en masse, he also didn’t love Vicki, he was going through the motions spurred on by Alfred, this all carries into Returns, the melancholy feel of this film is a direct result of Bruce’s own inner feelings as a result of the last film and also the reverse is true here; Batman indiscriminately kills Penguin goons for the first two acts then finally; through Catwomans tragedy he sees the flaw in his ways; she’s the one he sees as a kindred spirit, she’s the one he actively pursues and she’s the one he tries to save by stopping her from killing Shrexk at the films climax; this is the two film arc for Bruce; learning to cope with his immense pain, learning why to save a life and learning to love another human.
I always thought those two movies were about Bruce Wayne having this dark secret which meant he could never have a normal life. The first movie he flirts with being normal but the joker forces him to choose to be Batman. In Returns he finds other outsiders like himself, and flirts with going full outsider mode, but takes off his mask when Selina kills Max.
It can be argued that the arc isnt executed well then right?
@@kwible3682 I would say it’s executed quite well, it’s nuanced a bit and not right in your face being explained every step of the way but it’s all on screen if ya know how to dig a little deeper into your film watching experience
Don't put things that aren't there lol, that's like saying Tim Hollands trilogy was an origin, when really they fumbled and tried to pretend they meant to do that at the very end
@@dupersuper6516 its all there man, not my fault you have to be led through every story beat by the hand🤷🏽
Honestly a lot of the issues with Joel Schumacher’s Batman came down to the studio. A lot of parents hated the dark tone of Tim Burton so they replaced him. And when you look at his other movies he wasn’t a bad choice it’s just the studio who wanted it to be “kid friendly” and ended up failing in the end.
Matt Reeves cooked
I totally forgot that Batmanuel from The Tick is also in The Dark Knight!
This might be one of your hardest worked video yet, while i dont find myself agreeing with your takes, i am still subscribed as i like your style and its always good to see peoples different opinions and how its not a "im right your wrong".
Keep up the great work!
I still say Batman Forever is underrated. I believe the Schumacher cut could totally redeem the movie
Even the current cut is underrated, but I suspect the Schumann cut is better and they should definitely release it.
Mask of Phantasm & Batman Begins are tied for my favorite Batman movie with Dark knight being 2nd & The Batman being 3rd. Begins holds such a dear place in my heart because its the only one of the nolan trilogy that feels like it can be fantastical & above all else Begins much like Sam raimi's Spiderman understands that the audiences like the cape & fighting villains so long as you care about the man behind the mask, Bale just embodies Bruce so well everytime he is in danger I get tense because the movie let me know him as a person not an idea but a person. Also another thing that the Nolan movies deserves the absolute credit for is the character of Lucius fox yes the character existed in comics prior to Begins but Batman Begins in the movie that made Fox into a genuine character that comics have completely co-opted. Batman begins made Lucius in an actual character with motivations, intelligence, business knowlage & confidant for Bruce everything we today love about the character comes from Batman begins.
Generally agree all around, and especially with how good Pattinson is. There's so much to his portrayal, so many subtleties, so much attention paid to the way he moves and even just stands, so much he conveys with microexpressions, that I just find it light-years more thorough than any other iteration.
Batman Forever was the first Batman film I saw, so I can't see it without nostalgia goggles xD It's silly and over the top, but it's entertaining! I will raise one thing though, I would absolutely LOVE to see an "extended re-cut edition" cause it would be a totally different movie! Dr Burton coming in to Harvey's cell, only to find out that Two Face has hanged a security guard and escaped. And then we got that giant bat scene
Same! Both that and BTAS were my intro to Batman!
@@kdusel1991 Omg, BTAS is still to this day one of the best cartoon series ever!! Conroy and Hamill rocks!!!
I watched my 1st Batman movie with my grandchildren Brandon and Nicolas!loved it!
56:58 Not a fan of this change. I understand why people would see Bruce already having no kill rule as unrealistic, but I think it makes sense when consider Bruce's father was a doctor (so he would taught Bruce the value of life) and also Bruce's trauma. He doesn't kill just bc it's morally wrong, but also bc he associate this action with the man who killed his parents (hence why in many versions post Golden Age, Batman hates guns).
Mask of the Phantasm of probably one of the absolute best Batman movies of all time. The plot and pacing are all perfect. BTAS was the definitive version of Batman for me and every kid that watched it after school every day.
If you would like suggestions of movie franchises to analyze, might I suggest:
Transformers- the Micheal Bay movies, Bumblebee, ROTB, and the animated movies One and 1986
Superman
Spider-man- The Raimi trilogy, Amazing Spider-man 2 movies, MCU, and Spider-Verse movies
X-Men- From the 2000 movie to Dark Phoenix (even though it should've ended with Logan)
I'll add them to my list, thanks!
“And here…we…go!”
Been looking forward to this.
@@notoriousnatetalksaboutmy favourite line in the movie
I'm working through the video slowly, so I'll have to see how your other opinions shake out, but it is SO refreshing to find someone else who doesn't see the Burton films as these irreproachable masterpieces. I never found them to offer anything other than a great aesthetic and some cool performances. I find the actual plotting, character work, and thematic elements to be borderline incomprehensible, and I really don't get how they've maintained such a stellar reputation beyond just nostalgia.
Edit: so we're pretty much aligned on our takes all the way through lol
I am the biggest fan of Batman and Robin. It's not like I was kid when it came out I wasn't even born, but I find it so rewatchable, and probably have seen it more than any other batman. Sure, I don't think it's the best batman movie, but it probably also has the least flaws as it does everything it wants exactly as it wants. I also think this film is better than batman and robin as well.
Sean Chandler is another one of my favorite UA-camrs, I’m glad you like him too. You both talk about movies in such interesting ways keep it up
Still got to watch the Lego Batman.
I really enjoyed this video! I grew up on the Tim Burton Batman movies and after seeing Batman Forever and Batman and Robin I thought the Tim Burton movies were the last great Batman movies, but that all changed when I saw the Christopher Nolan films. I think I'm one of the rare 40 year olds who prefers the Nolan films over the Burton ones. Batman Begins was a fantastic Batman origin story and The Dark Knight totally broke the mold. I completely agree with all the points you made about The Dark Knight. Very well said. The Dark Knight Rises, to me, was the weakest link but still a decent Batman movie.
Excellent video! I'll be working on ranking my order of Batman films.
Thanks!
I just realised that batman 89 and returns relevance and significance on Bruce as a character isn’t touched on until forever when robin enters the picture. When Kilmers Bruce says “your pain doesn’t die with Harvey it grows and you run out into the night to find another face, and another and another; Until one terrible morning you realise revenge has become your life.” It addresses Batman’s killing in the previous films and paints a picture of who this batman is throughout the series.
If you love mask of Phantasm, you’ll enjoy Batman the animated series.
Awesome- looking forward to this!🇨🇦
Hope you like it!
Batman is the most awesome yet overplayed superhero. That has ever been around. Batman has technically had an incarnation. Of his character, world, arch gallery of villains, and allies. Since his creation in the comic books. Because for most of cinema, and television history. He is the easiest Superhero to get right since. He has no supernatural powers or abilities. Filmmakers can use Sherlock Holmes as an example of how to handle. One area of Batman’s expertise. Plus it’s basically the story of a rich kid with mommy/daddy issues. That resolves to fight the criminal element of Gotham. Yet do very little of anything else for the ordinary folk of Gotham. A character that could be somewhat relatable to the producers and Hollywood elite. Honestly I’m glad that ever since Wonder (Superman The Movie from 1978 also comes to mind) Woman. DC has been more keen. For giving other DC superheroes a chance to shine in the spotlight.
Can you please do Harry Potter all these years later
So as someone who watch Batman: The Animated Series and all the Batman movies of the 90's, here's something I think that's worth noting... The Animated Series did a remarkable job of treating the villains with respect and depth. Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, The Riddler, and most definitely Two-Face. They were so well-written and interesting (I think particularly Freeze and Two-Face), that when they were so horribly disrespected on the big screen, it was even more jarring. I couldn't figure out - and still can't - how The Riddler just became Joker Lite, and Two-Face could become Riddler Lite! It never made sense to me, so I'd definitely recommend watching at least certain episodes of The Animated Series.
Christian Bale is my favorite live action Batman because his take was the closest to who the character actually is. Unlike the other actors who were inspired by different versions from the comics. Affleck's version is connected to Frank Miller, while Pattinson's version is connected to Miller's year one. Bale's version is connected to Conroy's, as well as the source material itself
Bale is ok, but he is too much of a grounded take on the character to really fit the source material. The voice is laughable, the costume too realistic, and his alfred and the series is RUINED by Dark Knight Rises. It retroactively poisoned all 3 movies for me.
You can make something grounded and still be true to the source material. That's what Nolan did.
@@billymoore7182 he did, and the first 2 films are great. However the “realism” makes the costume more boring, the batmobile is an ugly slab of garbage, bane is stupid, their “realistic” work in of “robin” was pandering crap. Almost all my problems with Nolans movies come from Rises but many of the issues were throughout the series as well such as “batman doesnt kill” but “i dont have to save you” not fitting the characters morality. Gordon in the trilogy is perfection however, joker and harvey dent are GREAT, scarecrow could have been more but was a decent adaptation. Alfred in nolans movies is meh to sucking though. Torn on his catwoman, hate the ears being goggles flipped up, embrace the costumes
Tim Burton and Lego versions are the best!
13:04 many people who do amazing things do not why they do them. They just feel compelled. Artists especially.
Great video. But I think you missed one. There was another movie set in the TAS show, focusing on Mr Freeze as the villain. Sub-Zero, and it too was awesome :)
That film is good. But it wasn't theatrically released.
I think Gotham City in the Nolan trilogy is actually really interesting in the way of Nolans use of time passing. In batman begins Gotham is completely grimy, gross, chaotic, on the verge of collapse. In dark knight it looks Normal showing Batmans effect on the city. In dark knight rises it’s kinda sterile and empty and bleak because of the dent act and eventually Banes take over. Gotham to me in the nolan trilogy was at it’s best in Begins because it still feels like Gotham City.
Soooo excited about this, Batman has always been my favorite ❤
What does Bane want?
Why does Bane want what he wants?
Bane literally says in the movie that he wants to finish the League of Shadows' job of destroying Gotham that was left unfinished in Batman Begins and clearly wanted to prove to Bruce Wayne that he was a better apprentice to Ras al Ghul than he was. I don't agree that he's an overrated and flat villain, for a reason he's more remembered than most of the villains in the MCU and the DC Cinematic Universe.
This is a 11/10 video
thank you!
WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!, YOU CANNOT SAY THAT!!..
The reason why that... That I don't need you to say those things... Is because, I SAW A COMMENT THAT!!... THAT SAID!!, BAD WORDS ARE NOT VERY NICE!!..
AND THIS IS THE REASON WHY!!..
@@thegoldman25 WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!, YOU CANNOT SAY THAT!!..
"Bruce sees himself through Dick."
(Cue Beavis & Butthead laugh. . . )
Batfleck is the one that's grown on me the most. I put on his skin in Arkham Knight.
Rises was about Bruce overcoming his despair, and the Pit is a metaphor for depression, in that on the surface it appears easy to escape from, but to the person inside of it, it seems impossible. The fact that he did eventually find a reason to live again was legitimately inspiring and holds a positive, life affirming message to not fall into nihilistic apathy about the world like Bane and Talia do. The movie imo is immensely underappreciated.
Good take
Stop thinking that you need to empathize with a villain for them to be a good villain. I can't empathize with Hannibal Lecter's love for human flesh. That doesn't change the fact that he's a damn good villain.
Ikr? This has become a bad trend of criticism with movies.
Batman's rule about no killing was the change, not the other way around. The origin of the character had NO rule of that nature. He even used a revolver at the start.
Revenge of the Sith was not bad….
Check yourself bro.
I'm glad you like the movie
For real
It’s “fine.” Certainly best of the prequels, but that’s first place in…whatever terrible conference of your sport or choice
You should also watch the video Lancelotti made. I love his breakdown on all of the Live Action Batmen
Your wrong about “ Batman Returns “ Selina Kyle didn’t die from that fall . The awnings that she went through slowed her down . She survived but with a concussion .
Kinda late but honestly to add on to Matt Reeves Batman with Pattinson, the ending for that movie gave me huge Nolan energy in Dark Knights ending with the similarities imo, I have yet to dedicate 2-3 hours to watching The Batman again unfortunately so maybe this can change for me but that was something I noticed walking out of my midnight premiere
Both have fantastic endings
Most of my rankings would probably be more generous than yours.
Batman Begins - 10
The Dark Knight - 10
Batman Returns - 8
The Dark Knight Rises - 8
Batman Forever - 7
The Batman - 7
Batman v Superman - 6
Batman 89 - 6
Batman 66 - 5
Batman and Robin - 4
11:48 that guy looks like John Turturro who also happened to be in The Batman 🦇
How can you review films and then say “I’ve never seen another Tim Burton movie”…? Like, dude. Watch BeetleJuice and Edward Scissorhands stat!
Right, instead of watching the newest mediocre forgettable Star Wars show, rather watch some Beetlejuice, Sweeney Todd, Nightmare Before Christmas and Edward Scissorhands
Nolan was the actual beginning of batman as a serious movie threat of greatness im 44 the dark knight was the movie of the decade
I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman!!!
My live action Batman Ranking
1. Christan Bale
2. Robert Pattinson
3. Ben Affleck
4. Michael Keaton
5. Val Kilmer
6. Adam West
7. George Clooney
Movie Ranking:
1. The Batman
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman Begins
4. Mask of the Phantasm
5. The Dark Knight Rises
6. The Lego Batman Movie
7. Batman 89
8. Batman Returns
9. BvS
10. Batman Forever
11. Batman 66
12. Batman and Robin
Batman Ranking:
1. Keven Conroy
2. Robert Pattinson
3. Christian Bale
4. Will Arnett
5. Michael Keaton
6. Ben Affleck
7. Adam West
8. Val Kilmer
9. George Clooney
Lego Batman GOAT
Banger list! 100% agree. Great video! God you're good.
Have you been keeping up with the Penguin?
16:14 u interpreted him “liking her” as kinda a joke, as he really wants to “go on a date” to capture her and lure out Batman. He seems to discard her immediately when she’s no longer useful
Batman is not an addiction. Bruce Wayne is the mask, BATMAN is who he truly is. Bruce Wayne is and always will be Batman underneath it all. It is not an addiction, it is crusade, a pursuit of justice to save others from ever suffering as he has. Everything he does in his life is about saving lives and doing the right thing, its why in Mask when he falls in love with Andrea he begs at his parents grave to let him forsake what he stands for but he cannot because he cannot let anyone else suffer just so he can be happy. He can never be happy if to do so lets someone die.
I disagree about Keaton's Batman not having an arc. The 89 film works more as introduction, with Vicky Vale acting as the POV. It's through her eyes we the audience get to know Keaton's Batman and see his battle against the Joker. Returns show the aftermath of the previous film, with Bruce going back at being reclusive after Vicky left him. Even after killing the Joker, the man who killed his parents, and having earn the trust of the public, Bruce still driven to be Batman.
This is where his conflict with the three villains (penguin, Shreck and Catwoman) comes in. Each villain acts a reflection of Batman: Penguin represents the side of Bruce who sees himself as an outcast, Max Shreck represents his rich persona and Selina represents his vigilante persona. His relationship with Selina isn't in the film just give Bruce a love interest. Selina acts as reflection of what will happen to Bruce if continue to be loner, close from others and killing criminals.
If Burton had stick around in Forever, I pretty sure he would have kept Robin's subplot (specially considering how he tried to include the Boy Wonder in his films since 89). That whole scene where Bruce tells Dick what will happen if he killed Two Face it's basically Bruce describing everthing that happened to him since 89 and doesn't want Dick to follow his path and make the same mistakes or worse, end up like Selina.
The notion of Keaton's Batman having an arc raises a question. Is Keaton's Batman just the Batman he played in those two films or is it the same character (played by two other actors) in the Schumacher films? At the time we thought it was the latter. Batman Forever wasn't presented as a reboot. Even later on when the DVDs were sold, Warners marketed it as "the Batman quadrilogy", implying that the four films were linked. (They did share an Alfred at least.)
@@rp1692 I think they were all the same version considering how all the Batmen share the same Alfred and Gordon. The change of tone could even be explained as result of Batman presence in Gotham and the rise of his rogues, with his world becoming less darker and gothic and more colorful and campy, very sililar to how it happened in his comics during the end of the golden age and beginning of the silver age.
Batman forever has the best superhero soundtrack
My list in order best to worst : The Batman , Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Batman 89, Batman Return , Dark Knight rises, Batman v Superman, Mask Phatasm, Batman Forever, Batman Lego, Batman 66, Batman Robin .
You forgot about the 40’s & 50’s serials, they’re longer than movie length so they should still count
They were both 40s 43 & 46.
Pattinson’s batman would fit great for the outcast story of Batman Returns
I always believed the Batman in The Dark Knight Returns Part 1and 2 is the same Batman from Batman 66
40:30 Wait, but you were just saying the point of Batman's arc in Batman Forever was that he learns to embrace being both Bruce Wayne and Batman.
In that sense, Batman being able to save both of them is important to the theme of this movie, because he doesn’t need to choose.
That being said 9/10 times this is an annoying trope. But I think it works here.
NO the martha scene is not "he also has a mother" its "you are causing your parent death again" when he says "they're going to kill martha" batmans PTSD kicks in and it causes him to realize that he is causing the same thing that happend to him. He is letting his parents die AGAIN the whole origin of batman is wrapped up in that.
sorry about all the quotations
He wanted Viki to photograph his killings not just he has a crush on her Lol
not watched the video yet but Lego Batman is the best one
Here is my personal ranking of the films. I did a rewatch last year not including BVS. I'm not for sure about the actors:
1. The Batman - 9.5/10 (Peak; Top 10 Films of all time imo)
2. The Dark Knight - 9.5/10 (Peak; Top 10 Films of all time imo)
3. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm - 8/10 (Great)
4. Batman Begins - 7/10 (Good)
5. The Lego Batman Movie - 6.5/10 (Fairly Decent)
6. Batman (1989) - 6/10 (Decent)
7. Batman Returns - 5/10 (Mediocre)
8. Batman Forever - 4.5/10 (Not Good)
9. Batman (1966) - 4.5/10 (Not Good)
10. The Dark Knight Rises - 2.5/10 (Really Bad)
11. Batman and Robin - 1/10 (Horrible)
With the exceptions of tdk & b&r my list is nearly the exact opposite
How would you explain that Nolan made both TDK and TDKR? Not only does the director return but the writers do, too, along with the lead actor.
Batman 66 is peak wdym
Long time no see Gold man
it's only been 2 weeks
I still think Mask of The Phantasm is the best Batman movie
The dark knight is the best movie overall.
Batman begins is the best origin movie
The Batman is the best batman movie
Hot take
Nicholson's Joker >>>>>>> Ledger's Joker
Don't get me wrong. I like TDK and see why Ledger's Joker became one the most iconic adaptation of the clown prince of crime in the films. However the film having Joker wanting to break Gotham's people spirit by corrupting Harvey kind defeats the point of his character, that he has no plan.
Nicholson's Joker, on other hand, nailed the chaotic nature of the villain. He's not trying to prove a point or make some statment about society. Nothing in him is straight to the point nor consistent, with Joker changing his mind in seconds. In the end, everthing he does is part of grand show and he is the main star. All Joker wants is to spread chaos in the city and let people know he did, like the "twisted artist" he sees himself as.
It's something recent adaptations (usually post TDK) have lost about the Joker, focusing on having him being scary and a city level threat and forgetting that he's suppose to be a clown with a dark sense of humor.
Not a hot take bud
@alexandrefrauches132 @prkrsmth I agree, especially since I for one have never been a fan of Heath Ledger’s Joker…
@@prkrsmthNicolson is the best Joker 🃏
anyone else noticing alot for Batman content, and recommendation these days or is it just me?
Good rankings
I wouldn't put The Batman in a pedestal, I would say that the only saving grace that this movie has is the new miniseries The Penguin, that back pedals the ending of The Batman, because in the movie, Batman spend two hours and half preaching about the corruption in Gotham, about the police and the politicians, but by the third arc, the backtrack and bend the knee to the status quo, with the stupid Mayor and police scene, hell, I think that The Cape Crusader is making more close what The Batman should be than the movie itself, is a classical Noire, everyone is corrupt, and Bruce Wayne has anger issues.
Awesome vid
Thank you!
Will Arnet is my favorite Batman 💀
I have no clue about what gotham suppose to be. I just imagine New York in a different universe.
but it also seems completly islolated from the rest of the world most of the time.
Bruh some of your lines are just the same as in your other previous batman videos LOL
Only BvS, which I did just do a video on so yeah I used my same points. I haven’t talked about any of the other Batman movies (except The Batman but I did a whole 30 min video on that)
I don’t think the DDEQ fallacy is an actual fallacy
I’m not sure why but I find myself watching dark knight rises more than any Batman film.
It's got the greatest Selina.
@@rp1692 Wrong, Pfiefer wins by a mile
Will u do a review of James Bond
50:46 insert knuckles quote here:
so he pulled a cosmonaut
did he gain the rights to review all the batman movies? Must've missed that
@@thegoldman25 i didnt mean it as a jab at all i love cosmonaut and ur channel they just released close
@@TJHill07 fair enough, my apologies
This video is well made but man i disagree hard with some of your takes on keatons films and batman forever
Hotish take, I think Batman Begins is the best batman movie. Is the only Nolan film when gothan isn't just Chicago. It perfectly explores his origin and ideology, as well as it shows his training, Bale is perfect as Bruce, and his batman voice isn't a stupid as in the sequals, it has a great balance of realistic and supernatural, batman looks intimidating while in the sequals looks to skinny, and you don't even notice he can't move his head. Every prefomance is great, and Oldman is the best gordan.
You have to watch The Animated Series.
i should
How about the New 52 series Batman
Anyways... #MakeTheBatfleckMovie #RestoreTheSnyderverse
😅😂🤣
“Heroes are remembered and Batman will never die.”
I'm vengeance
whoa a harry potter mention? gold man we need some harry potter content!
gotta finish the books first
@@thegoldman25 smart man. looking forward to it whenever it comes!
Dude I enjoy your videos, but hearing “I’ve never seen Tim Burton movies” kills your credibility so bad. It’s hard.
Sorry ):
The first Batman movie was in 1936
Wow Batman movie in 1936 when he was created in 1939 LMFAO it was 1943 not 1936. Lol & it was a serial
@@BATDAN_92 my bad you're right, it was Batman 1943 movies serial and the other was Batman and Robin 1949 movie serial, I don't know where I got 1936 from 👍
I think you’re too harsh on the Tim Burton movies and too soft on Christopher Nolan’s movies. There’s no way you can put The Dark Knight Rises above the Burton movies nor putting Christian Bale above Michael Keaton
I can understand Bale, but much less giving too much of a high note to Rises.
TDKR has only aged worse over time. It feels so plainly like a 2000’s CBM. I feel like Burtons films have an effortless and timeless charm to them. That being said Begins and TDK did break new ground totally and thematically and shouldn’t be slept on.
Dude is absolutely correct for doing so. Bale and the trilogy smoke all of the other Batman stuff other than BTAS/Mask of the Phantasm.
did you watch the ultimate edition of batman v superman? its way better
Keep watching
I’m here for the dark knight, the Batman, and the Lego Batman movie. All other movies do not matter
The Burton movies are good.
@@kdusel1991 I haven’t seen them. But I did think of that while I was writing the comment. But I haven’t seen it or have any knowledge about it. So it would be a lie.
What about Batman Begins and the Dark Knight Rises?
@@SpenceyWencey-tz7lp dark knight rises is just whatever to me. I like Bane but the story is pretty weak.
@@kdusel1991 it’s the weakest of the trilogy, but still a great movie imo
Animated series is Batman
Bruh completely missed sub zero and batman beyond return of the joker for animated movies.
Also the plethora of batman content in Batman the animated series, justice league, justice leauge unlimited, and batman beyond.
I get it's only movies and Kevin conroy reprises his role in all but God dam thay are too good to not watch especially BTAS the last laugh episode and JL wild cards for some excellent mark Hamill joker shenanigans 😂
Daredevil >>> Batman
Voting against the dare devil is like going against the special Olympics.
@@warrentalbot329 do you mean Paralympics?