What Finish Should I Use? | Woodworking Beginner Tips
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2024
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In this video I'm going over wood finish. This is by no means a complete comprehensive look at wood finishing...and instead something more like the 80/20 rule. Where you get a small amount of information (20%) and that is good enough for getting you through most situations (80%). To be more specific though, this video covers surface finishes vs penetrating finishes, how to prep your wood for them, how to apply them, and how I decide when to use a surface wood finish vs a penetrating oil wood finish. Not everything, but enough to get most woodworkers through most situations and projects.
#Woodfinish #woodworking #wood
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I used to sand to 220 and then quit. Then a buddy whose mind works in realms I've never contemplated, said that light refracts (? think that's the word) more precisely (acutely?) the higher the grit (the wood becomes like a mirror of sorts). So I thought I'd go crazy and sand my rocking chair to 1000. Sheeeeeeeit! What a difference. I'm not a commercial shop, just a retired guy, so time isn't a concern. When you're old and grey and have tons of time, give this a whirl. You won't regret it!
I talked with a guy, who's selling several types of oils for a living, he discouraged me from sanding above 180 grit BEFORE applying the first coat of oil, because you are limiting the ability of the wood to absorb the oil. after the 1st coat has dried, it's OK to sand it down to 240-280 lightly
Brown paper! My mom used to be a decorative artist using traditional Scandinavian techniques. She was an expert at achieving smooth final finishes. She was the only person I knew who recommended using a finer and finer sandpaper, then finally brown bag paper... until you! Nice 👍🏼
It’s perfect for that final buff on the finish. When sand paper would be too aggressive.
Might be the best education video on woodworking finish. You provided us with a system to think rather than just a bunch of steps.
The epiphany at the end was really helpful. I was already leaning towards oil for a live edge desk I'm building and this helped me decide that oil is the best choice for what I want to achieve aesthetically.
Thank you for actually demonstrating the light sanding between finish coats. I feel that's a step that is breezed over by most woodworkers, and has been a frustration for me as I enter woodworking.
I feel like there is no "definitive" video on finishing, so I love to hear from other woodworkers what they use/do and why. This was great!
Thanks...that's how I'm hoping people receive this. Non definitive. Just what might be helpful
I made my first piece of furniture, a solid maple kitchen table. I used advice in this video to decide how to finish it. I used oil based wipe on poly, and it came out beautiful. I’m so happy with it!
I've been stuck in this finishing tidepool for a bit and watched and read numerous how-to's, and this has been the most comprehensive and functional insight. Thanks
I've rarely used water based poly and you showed me what's wrong. Not enough coats! Thanks!
1. I always, always burnish the finish unless I'm using oil or epoxy.
2. An old furniture expert told me a tip way back in 1990(ish) to seal my end grain with simple syrup and let it dry before staining a piece, to get the ends the same shade as the rest of the wood.
Exactly what I was looking for for a couple of years, this gave me much more clarity on what to use in my personal projects, thanks Chris!!!
This is the best video on simple finishing for newbies that I've seen, and I watched a lot of them. So helpful.
Totally! I'm inexperienced with these things, but I am an artist and ocd perfectionist (🤣)... I finally decided how I'm going to finish a guitar - dye it black and finish it with Sutherland Welles Tung oil. I've acquired a vast-mass and plethora of knowledge (which my mind is sculpting into wisdom) watching youtube videos on the subjects of wood, guitars, guitar finishing, etcetera. One keen takeaway is this: Test and do what you want. SOOO MANY PEOPLE (not you though) act as if subjective opinion and personal preference are EMPIRICAL and ABSOLUTE TRUTH! 🤣 Depending on what a person is going for, it almost comes down to whatever is clever. Like me - I desire an "unconventional" look that most would hate, but I think most people finishing guitars make it waaay too complex with superfluous steps, but if that's what they want, have at it! 😎
Thanks for the awesome video! I think one of the biggest issues I have when finishing is that I tend to rush through the process because I just want the project to be done and over with. It's tough for me to stay engaged in a project after I've put so many hours into it, and I already have my sights set on the next one.
yeah. I'm pretty much the same way. Like I said in the video. i don't enjoy it. All that "this is my favorite part, look at the grain pop" is a woodworking trope I think.
Nice video. My family and I included that have been in the cabinet industry for over 50 years have exclusively used dark walnut Danish oil under catalyzed lacquer on our home furniture as well as many many many clients. I have a 40 year old grandfather clock that still is showroom quality with still nearly flawless joints done this way.
I’ve recently taken on the feat of revamping my MCM dresser with no wood experience. Sanding is complete but for the last week I’ve pondered what kind of finish I hope to achieve. Needless to say, this video was very informative. I realize what I thought I wanted is now not was I need. so THANKS!
Probably scrolled to 50 videos about wood finishing and I stopped at this video. Finally understood wood finishing. Appreciate the schooling
This was super helpful. I have plans to build a walnut dining room table. I love the look of the oil but the protection of the poly. But I think after this I’ve landed in a penetrating oil because the table will get used and beat up and I’ll want to be able to easily restore it. Thanks - this was helpful!
Just ordered a quart. Looking forward to using it on a few upcoming projects. You are correct...I hate finishing, but love to build.
I've been struggling with wood finishing for the past few months and this video...gave me good advice for my next finishing steps! Thanks for sharing your tips, Chris.
Hey Jenn...glad you found it helpful :)
Im just starting to get into serious furniture making after decades of amateur woodworking/DIY. I made a few pieces using Old Masters Tung Oil Varnish and it's decent. I was going to try Arm R Seal but that's basically just high quality wiping varnish. Then I heard of hard wax oils like Rubio Monocoat and was going to bite that expensive bullet because I like the natural penetrating oil side of things rather than encasing things in plastic with varnishes. I've been a long time fan of FourEyes and it seems like Simple Finish is in the realm of hard wax oils, more affordable than Rubio, and supports people I already like. So I'm off to order a can to use on my Salomone inspired desk build made of hickory with a heartwood streak down the middle of the top, kinda like a river table.
I use water based wipe on poly for most of my projects, except outdoor furniture and small stuff like boxes or cutting boards. For outdoor furniture I use a teak oil / oil based spar urethane blend. Small boxes I use rattle can lacquer. Cutting boards and bottle openers get mineral oil. For the odd times when I paint a project I use a rattle can. I haven't used paint on a project in 3 years - maybe more.
My go to finish with a nice balance between rich color and fast recoat times has been tinted (optional) dewaxed shellac ragged on as a toner, and then sprayed water-based polyurethane. You can tone and finish a project in a single day. It'll never be quite as rich as oil, but it gets most of the way there and is way, way faster. This works best when you want to uniformly adjust a single color on the project, for example, when I want to warm up walnut or add a pre-aged look to cherry. It doesn't work as well if you're drastically trying to change the color, like a deep mission finish on quartersawn oak.
I just started sanding a coffee table down to the wood and this video came out. Perfect timing!!
Awesome! Glad you found it useful :)
16:21 Now that is really beautiful. The design, the colors. Wow.
Here in Australia I use Livos oils. Plenty of choices, great finishes and easy to apply. They’re all food grade with no toxins and can be tinted. They recommend to finish off with nothing smoother than 180g and the only downside so far is the cost. I’ve never used anything else so it was great to see your video, thanks.
Nice...never heard of it. Assuming it's specific to Australia?
@@Foureyes.Furniture Hi Chris. I read recently where they were wanting to supply the North American market but I'm not sure where they're at with that? At the last Australian woodwork show I reckon at about 95% of the exhibitionists had finished their exhibit with some type of Livos oil. Our hardwoods are some of the toughest on the planet so I'm not sure if it's been specifically designed for them or not?
Not sure if you will see this Q but.. what about for outdoor finishes? Like outdoor furniture? And more specifically techniques for properly sealing around joints and screw holes, etc? I'm an amateur and use a lot of pocket holes for example, and not sure how to best seal this type of construction.
What I’ve found that helps on poly after sanding, use compressed air with a fine point nozzle after sanding, it works really well at removing the white “powder” from the pores
probably better and cleaner than my wipe with hands, wipe on clothes technique :)
@@Foureyes.Furniture you mean, the patented "Four Eyes Wipedown"?
Good approach! I often wipe down with mineral spirits after sanding.
I have a pile of tack cloth in my shop to clean up before final coats that works pretty good. Takes about as much work as using your hand but I think picks up 100x more. They are relatively cheap on Amazon. Not sure I'd want to blow fine particles around the shop anymore than I have to.
My favorite option for walnut (going on my glenn chair when I'm done) - danish oil with a satin lacquer :)
First, I wanted to thank you for your vid, loved the explanation of the difference between the oil penetrating and sealer.
So here’s my quandary;
It was suggested I use a penetrating product on my very light oak window seals, that get a west later afternoon sun on them.
I told the guy at paint store “They were pretty beat up, ie condensation, and sun damaged.
And, that I’m not sure what was on them previously.
Do he suggested *Dalys PROFIN* oil penetrating product.
Anyway. I sanded the heck out of seals specifically, trying to sand away a few water stains, and some grain, or finish degradation, and the result is…it’s abit blotchy.
I’m a novelist!
So PROFIN product directions for use suggest sanding in between coats for deeper luster.
You are right it’s so easy to apply. So ,I applied how per their suggestion, which is to brush on, let it sit for 5 to 10 min., then wipe off with lint free cloth. The guy at store just said to wipe on. But because I knew this wood would soak up a lot, so I brushed on, and wiped off.
So far I love how it brought out the natural look of the wood, and for an even deeper luster they suggest using a steel wool #4 and rub in the last coat.
I haven’t done that, yet.
So my question is, do you think since it’s a window frames and seals, this was an appropriate product? ie meaning the oil penetrating method.
The product said hard drying, and quick setting so I’m hoping it works out.
Also, What are your thoughts on wood filler if you want to maintain the natural wood? Is that even possible? My thought is no.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for this. I think I’ll end up putting this video in my “Reference” file for future referral. One thing for you to think about though: it may be harder for you than you think to refinish that table once your kids are older. There are marks all around my house and on our furniture from the boys’ hijinx growing up, and I love to look at those occasionally now that my boys are off in the world. I’d fight someone who wanted to remove them!
Haha. Then maybe I’ll just hang the top on a wall and make a whole new table. 😀
I was fortunate enough to grab a sample bottle of Simple Finish when you first introduced it. I tried it on a couple of small boxes and loved it. I subsequently purchased a can and have used almost exclusively since. It gives the wood such a smooth natural feel without the need to sand between coats. You guys make a great product.
Damn...we should be paying you for a review like this. Check your Venmo ;)
I started a quest a while back buying a lot of different finished and applying to test wood. Many were the “hard oil finish” then I got your simple finish and for most woods it’s my choice. Thanks, my quest ended. Simple is the best oil I found for my use. Love your builds, and may get some of your glasses if you don’t mind!
That’s awesome. And I don’t mind at all
This first chair u are working on is just gorgeous.
That epiphany/clarification at the end is great, too. Thanks.
Thank you :) Glad you liked it!
There’s also wax baking, you apply a layer of wax onto your surface & heat the surface until it’s absorbed, it might make it more of a fire hazard but wood is wood & I think poly probably has the same fire resistance leaves a matte finish & a super raw feel but that might be because it’s not a normal finish or even a finish I guess but it gives good water resistance
Lately I've been wanting to just put cutting board oil on anything and everything I make. It looks natural and it's just so easy. Anyway, thanks for the helpful video!
Glad I watched this as I'm planning on making a plywood media console out of baltic birch ply and was going to use oil but you showing how oil makes the edges darker definitely makes me want to use poly instead now. Thanks!
My go to has become spray lacquer. I love the ease of use and the re-coat time
Good advice re: sanding. Patience now saves a big serve of disappointment later when you discover all those swirl or pigtail marks looking back at you through your lovely and often expensive finish.
It's the old 5 P's. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.
Also I gotta say, that unscripted section at the end felt the most informational to me, like we were being taught and not instructed in a lecture.
I kinda feel the same way. It's the thing where you boil something down to an elevator pitch
Hi, I just want to say 2 things: I really admire you and your works and when I make a table I usually finish the top with parquet water paint becouse if it's ok for the feet, it's ok for the hands.
Thank you for what I've learned seeing your videos.
Cheers from Florence
For a bathroom vanity top in Sapele I was usinga satin Halcyion Varnish from Total Boat to have a water proof finish. I gave it a nice, brown color and so far no water marks after a few weeks of usage. I sprayed the vanity cabinet but brushed on the varnish on the top as I did not like the ‘dotted’ surfase from the spray.
I also like that I can use water to clean my tools rather than alcolol or mineral spirits.
I just made a sepele vanity top a few months ago. I encased mine in epoxy for depth of view & waterproofing.
Fun to find someone on a similar wavelength.
@@karl_alan Cool. I was thinking about this but my shop is pretty small and dusty. So far I like that the Halcylon is pretty thin and so one can still feel the wood underneath. I used Epoxy to fill cracks in the wood which took way longer than expected especially the sanding.
If you want a in-depth guide to finishing, I recommend Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing. Its used as a textbook in woodworking classes
This is a brilliant summary thanks Chris.
You really do cut through it in a way only a great teacher can.
Thanks for sharing.
man, you're awesome.. you make tons of sense and I could listen to you for hours. This doesn't apply to the other guy. I mean he's not terrible, but let him have a separate channel.
I think the rounder frames looked best on you. Just my thought.
Thanks for the material.
I liked the example you gave of the dining room table. It raises the question of which finish best resists stains from penetrating. My assumption is that poly would do a better job then oil. Would food oils spilt on a dining table penetrate an oil finish? Obviously, both would need to be refinished eventually. (PS, wait to refinish the table until the kids leave the house or age 25, whichever comes first!)
Chris, Thank you for this thorough explanation of the differences in finishes. I was also not aware that you are the creator of the Maker brand of finishes. A good to know point. I actually love your channel and look forward to when you post another video. I'm getting ready to start my workshop cabinets here in the next month. I plan on using Baltic Birch plywood with a Spray on Poly finish, most likely Maker brand.
Thanks again. Felix
Love the honesty. Other than that, great info...Personally I hate sanding. Thanx for your time making this and other videos.
If you want a darker look with WB poly you can do a coat or two of shellac under it. Looks great on walnut.
I never ever listen to the sponsor of the video and always skip it. But I did watch the whole ad and it was...well ok or pretty good.
When you said you use simple finish with a wax top coat, were you talking about paste wax at the end or is that built in?
Function and taste combined is your guideline.
You're right in that water based poly keeps a more natural color, but if you're using oil-based poly, wipe on, spray, etc, it does act MUCH more like maker brand finish, and also feels less plasticy like you mention. Oil based poly gives a more durable finish than something that's just an oil based 'soak in' finish with the benefit of darkening wood, etc like a tung oil etc, it just takes MUCH longer to apply and dry, 3-5 days. Just thought I'd mention this as you talk about oil based finishes vs poly finishes, but oil based poly acts much more like a oil wipe on finish. Would hate for someone to buy an oil-based poly thinking it applies more clear then not get the finish they were expecting as it's super hard to fix/reverse.
I love the videos, and thanks for more color on the Mirka, I'd love a full review on it or a larger video on sanding specifically!
Another pro with using water-based poly, if you're using a foam brush, you can rinse the brush and reuse it for the next water-based poly project.
After seeing a lot of buzz about Rubio Monocoat I tried the “Pure” version of walnut. I’m impressed and sold. It’s worth a look.
Thanks for the finishing video.
I need to finish a hemlock handrail.
I'll try a penetrating oil on a sample to test for color. But I really like the repair aspect. Polyurethane would have been my first choice.
Thanks again.
This was very succinct - as a newbie looking to finish one of my first project this was perfect advice!
This has been soooo helpful. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. Loving your channel ❤
If you haven't tried Vesting's LED Hardwax Oil, you should try it out, much much more tolerable for furniture than anything I've ever used for normal wipe-on options.
You only need to sand up to 180, if you sand up to 220 grit your stains will be way lighter. If you stop at 180 your stain will be darker and even darker at 150, but 150 show the sand marks and scratches if not careful. I work at a state of the art shop in California and do all the finishing for all google, Facebook and all Bay Area big company’s.
What about a wood kitchen counter top? Some is storage area with some work, other is close to sink, wet alot, food prep, dish towel, etc
Yesssss... I feel like this video was made just for me. Thank you, Chris!!
You're so welcome!
Very helpful! Thank you for comparing poly to oil; I’ve been looking for info on that exact comparison.
I know this is an older video but I came back to it once in a while to refresh my memory on this topic.
My question is how do you feel about using Simple Finish or an oil finish on a bathroom vanity?
The Material is red oak ply wood and red oak if that helps.
I don't have any experience with that. In my bathroom I used polyurethane because I knew it would get wet a little, and have to be wiped a decent amount.
Do you have any suggestions on a polyurethane to use and a video to watch on polyurethane?
I really love the conclusion
Absolutely awesome video. I am always in the corner worrying about how to make my job shine. But to be honest I love oils .As you say oil brings out depth and colour. Varnish is fast but not the deep look to wood.A thing I wonder about is do you use wax polish or not .should just leave the mat finish that oil leaves. Anyway this video was so informative as in sand sand and sand again then use oil and feel the wood. I agree that Varnish is plastic and I think false. One last thing are you UK based. Many thanks Gerald south wale UK
Any updates on Simple Finish restock?
How do you get to the white finish on the console at 13:41 (with the coke can)? Is it lacquer or do you use some laminate?
I hate finishing. Well, I won’t say I hate finishing. I’d say, I REALLY hate finishing. I really like your simple, pragmatic approach to it.
The lawnmower analogy is brilliant!
Great videos as always and the best voice on UA-cam.
Glad you think so! :)
Great video!
I really enjoyed your logical presentation, and your two easy ways for DIYer's like myself to choose a finish. I am looking forward to your next Woodwooking video.
Well done!
Foureyes Lol I was actually going to use the analogy of mowing the lawn and there you go, mowing :) Oooh I love the idea of pencil marks during sanding! I need visual cues, this is perfect. Surface prep is everything, no matter what the project is. Getting new glasses during downtime LOL You have a great sense of humor. Oh wow 16:20 :) Your pieces are all so beautiful, excellent work. Great vid! - Tanya
Very well learned. However, possible to do an oil base and poly surface? So it does different protections.
Really a nice video 👍 this is what I was waiting for. I’m building a walnut entertainment center and I’m in the dilemma to use oil vs polyurethane. U clarified my question. Thank you 🙏
Nice work Chris! So what you're saying is to cover every surface of your projects with mayonnaise?
Dude your furniture designs are goddamn gorgeous. I absolutely love the lines you've used. Epic stuff.
Thanks Dave :)
Thanks Chris, I’m leaning toward Hardwax oil at the moment but have been using Poly on some builds, I’ve totally gone off spray on products merely for the chemicals that are in them.
This was interesting, cheers from Australia
We make safe non toxic polys that you can spray directly from the can if you are looking for an alternative.
Awesome Info Chris!!! Much needed
Good video. Use what you like. Thanks for bringing the stress level down for me when it comes to finishing
Best info I can honestly give :)
Simplest finish, is the one you can make yourself using Maloof’s tried and trued finish - 1/3 boiled linseed oil, 1/3 polyurethane and 1/3 Tung oil. And like the movie, wax on wax off. Go 5 to 6 coats with 24 hours between each coat for a flawless finish that’s dead simple. And you don’t need to sand between coats, just give each coat 15 mins or so to start to go tacky and wipe off with the grain and you don’t need to sand between coats.
What about paint? Especially for plywood cabinets with poplar face frames, drawer fronts and doors? What grit do you sand everything to before paint? Spray or roll? Water or oil based paints?
a good idea is to make something like cnc sanding device for the X plane pretty simple and you save a loot of time,
Chipotle's brown bags - would you say their grit is just right or too aggressive? This determines what I'll be having for lunch today.
Nice video. What finish sprayer do you guys use?
Hi Chris, Love the video and information. We are about to finish a live edge coffee table with the Simple Finish. Would it be ok to also put a clear poly on top of the Simple Finish to get a more semi-gloss finish ? Thanks !!
When it comes the woodworking, I’m never finished.
When I work my wood I finish very quick :/
Do you have a lot of overspray on your tables, shop floor, surrounding equipment? I like the idea of spraying but concerned about the mess in my shop/garage. Yep, I actually park cars in my garage
Very helpful. I use Walrus Oil products, but I'll have to try out Simple. Keep in mind that Simple is double the cost of Walrus Oil Furniture Finish though.
What spray gun do you use and does it take poly well? Require thinning?
Any sprayer types or brands/models to recommend? I went on a nasty deep dive and I am no closer to a decision😅 thanks! Paul
Thank you Chris for this beautiful teaching
That is a great looking lawn.
I have a bookcase which was coated with danish oil. Unfortunately the oil is still seeping from the wood, weeks after completion, meaning the shelves feel greasy and this oiliness transfers to the pages of books. My understanding is that the person who made the bookcase for me didn’t follow the correct process when applying the danish oil. Is there anything I can do to stop this?
Excellent video. I’ve been referring to your video as I’m making a custom baseball bat. I have a question for you. How would you recommend sanding a baseball bat between poly coat’s? Thank you
Appreciate the video and the information and experience you pass along. Question: What about pieces that get some sun through different parts of the day? Is there a finish that does better than others in regards to fading. I am thinking about a piece that may be under a window. Thanks.
What's your take on Shellac? Ive typically been a poly or penetrating oil person, but lately I've been using Shellac and enjoying it. I typically like a modern look and also prefer matte finishes, but I have recently been using a sock to apply a firmly pressed thin coat of shellac, waiting 20 minutes, hand sanding lightly with 220, repeating that process two more times, and then giving a 320 sanding pass as final and then applying a coat of paste wax and then using a buffer to slightly buff the wax just before it gets glossy. (firmly pressing the shellac is the key, if you just wipe it on it gets thick, gloopy, and too glossy) ... I find that it has very minimal gloss, a very protected feeling, it beautifies the wood without it becoming too dark/antique looking, it feels premium yet still maintains the modern finish I am usually going for. Over the holidays I used it on a walnut project, a maple project and plywood and really enjoyed. There was one project that I did want to be slightly glossy, so I sanded it up to 1000 grit before applying the paste wax, and while not as modern, was very glassy and satisfying to touch. Is there anything you do not like about Shellac?
I've got a 1.5" x 9" x 20" white oak plank I'll be using for a floating nightstand (shelf only, no cubby or drawers). It's beautiful by itself. Wondering what people do when they want to preserve the natural color of the wood but still apply oil/poly to protect it some?
Love your videos! very useful, down to the point, and explaining why. Thank you!