Unraveling Elven Names: Meanings and Practices Among Tolkien's Eldar

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  • Опубліковано 27 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 103

  • @htilden42
    @htilden42 10 місяців тому +21

    Finwë Junior and his sons Finwë Three, Shouty Finwë, Hunky Finwë, Emo Finwë, Crafty Finwë, Tiny Finwë, and Final Finwë

    • @annafdd
      @annafdd 10 місяців тому +9

      Or, to go with their mother names: Gorgeous Baby, Loud Baby, Baby Won’t Sleep, Look at His Little Red Face, Daddykins, and These Two Are Both Ginger.
      (There is a fiction in which Maedhros says that he prefers Russandol and Maglor reacts like this: “Hello, I am Shouty Baby and these are my brothers, Ginger, Ginger and Ginger.”)

  • @vadersfist20videos38
    @vadersfist20videos38 9 місяців тому +8

    I know I’m commenting two weeks after this video came out but in the hopes you see this, I just wanted to say that you should see the love that fans are giving you over on Reddit, someone discovered your channel so now there’s is a thread of folks talking about how great your videos are, thought you should know.

  • @TolkienLorePodcast
    @TolkienLorePodcast 10 місяців тому +18

    Proving once again that Tolkien really did start with language and build from there. He’s quite possibly the most successful eccentric ever if we measure success by getting one’s eccentricity to be widely spread (if not widely understood) 😂

  • @ilkkasimomaa
    @ilkkasimomaa 10 місяців тому +25

    17:40 "...prone to, uh, Finnishness" 😃 Greetings from Helsinki!

  • @EriktheRed2023
    @EriktheRed2023 10 місяців тому +6

    The whole Finwë name debacle reminds me of how the name Caesar also starts out as a name that just means 'hairy' (probably; I think Caesar is a little disputed, but Finwë isn't to my knowledge). Octavian (the later Caesar Augustus) changes his name to Caesar to strengthen the perception of his ties with his uncle and adoptive father Julius Caesar. Augustus' heir and adoptive son Tiberius also changes his name to (among other things) Caesar. A casual name becomes associated with rulership, and turns into a title of the emperor.
    And then there's infighting and decadence and wars and almost everybody dies and the dynasty gets wiped out.

  • @Gorlim_the_Unhappy
    @Gorlim_the_Unhappy 10 місяців тому +10

    "A name comes first and the story follows" is a deep core concept that belies the beauty and splendor of Tolkien's worldview. We are all, to a degree, spoken into existence, and it is our duty to name the world around us. Much love y'all!

  • @TarMody
    @TarMody 9 місяців тому +5

    TROP Sauron: "I have had many names." - Elves: "Us too!"

  • @ellerose9164
    @ellerose9164 10 місяців тому +36

    Have not seen the video yet, but the best Elven name, obviously, must be Teleporno!

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  10 місяців тому +13

      I was waiting for this comment 🤣🤣

  • @waltonsmith7210
    @waltonsmith7210 10 місяців тому +71

    I swear there's a hill in England whose name translates to "Hill Hill Hill" in three different languages.

    • @elizabethcarroll8012
      @elizabethcarroll8012 10 місяців тому +22

      Torpenhow Hill

    • @peternouwen
      @peternouwen 10 місяців тому +21

      Funny one (and somewhat related): River Avon means ‘River River’

    • @elizabethcarroll8012
      @elizabethcarroll8012 10 місяців тому +17

      @@peternouwen also Sahara Desert, Kalahari Desert, and Gobi Desert, all meaning 'desert desert'

    • @ezrafriesner8370
      @ezrafriesner8370 10 місяців тому +1

      @@peternouwen Of which there are several, as the same confusion happened multiple times 😂

    • @samuelbattershell3413
      @samuelbattershell3413 10 місяців тому +6

      I know there's a river in Africa that's name is something along the lines of 'River of the River of the River river'

  • @gabrielblanchard3921
    @gabrielblanchard3921 10 місяців тому +9

    I love when you get into Elven linguistics! It's one of the things that drew me to Tolkien, and the singular beauty of Quenya continues to captivate me.
    I also have some limited experience of renaming and its possible importance. I became a Catholic in college, and had grown up in a religious tradition that doesn't have Confirmation; when I converted, I spent some time settling on a patron saint, because I wanted to _use_ my Confirmation name. I eventually settled on St. Gabriel the Archangel, partly for non-linguistic reasons -- e.g. my work has long been in fields he has patronage of, and also it feels kinda kickass to be named after a being that isn't even human. But also, I like the sound, and still more the meaning: "God is my strength." (I tried translating it into Quenya once, and it came out as something like _Erumelco;_ do with _that_ information what you will, I suppose.)

  • @rdbury507
    @rdbury507 10 місяців тому +6

    I think the custom for many fantasy writers is to throw in a silent 'h' at random, perhaps a diacritic, and call it a day. Thus instead of calling the character "Steve", it's "Stëhve". No one, least of all the author, knows how this is meant to be pronounced, but that doesn't matter as long as it seems vaguely mysterious. Not Tolkien though; with him every morpheme had a backstory. I guess that's what happens when a fantasy writer actually knows ancient cultures. I keep thinking that he could have written The Hobbit in Old English if he'd had a mind to; probably the publisher thought it would sell better if it was in Modern English.

    • @LeRoiDuFresne
      @LeRoiDuFresne 9 місяців тому +2

      That would have been a delightful learning tool if it existed tho.

  • @scotthudson8722
    @scotthudson8722 4 місяці тому +1

    Other fascinating names from Appendix F of The Lord of the Rings: Sam’s real name was Ban, and his father Ham was Ran.
    Meriodoc Brandybuck’s name was Kalimac Brandagamba.
    I wish John had given us Frodo and Pippin’s names.
    What a genius!

    • @EriktheRed2023
      @EriktheRed2023 4 місяці тому

      I thought Frodo's name was 'Maura' in Kuduk?
      Edit: Looks like Pippin's name is 'Razanur', citing The Peoples of Middle-earth, "II. The Appendix on Languages" as the source. I don't remember where I got 'Maura' from.

  • @Arumbarth
    @Arumbarth 10 місяців тому +22

    You’ve very quickly become my favorite Tolkien channel. Excellent work as always!

  • @chefkochjay
    @chefkochjay 10 місяців тому +4

    Still easily one of the channels on this plattform with the highest level of quality.
    Also - great Username!

  • @eliscanfield3913
    @eliscanfield3913 2 місяці тому +1

    I know a family where both sons have the same first and middle name. They have different surnames tho, because Eldest was born a wee bit before the wedding while younger was a few years after it. Apparently the father wanted a full Junior, and hey, the other one was being raised by his grandparents hundreds of miles away anyway. (the parents had left eldest with his grands so they could get settled in the new place, but by the time they were ready to fetch him, he and his grandpa had bonded really tightly, so they let him stay there) I don't know how either guy actually feels about it, but damn, I'd have been extremely unhappy about it. Both sons are grandpas themselves now and nobody in the younger generations carries their first name.

  • @Valdagast
    @Valdagast 10 місяців тому +13

    I once wanted to play an elf cook named Falafiel, but my GM wouldn't let me.

    • @EriktheRed2023
      @EriktheRed2023 10 місяців тому +8

      Your GM is wise, and you are funny.

  • @magicalgirlcoco
    @magicalgirlcoco 10 місяців тому +1

    The many different names was the most confusing thing about entering the Silmarillion fandom, on top of having to learn who each character is! xD But I really love this aspect of worldbuilding on Tolkien's part, since it really reflects just how complex naming can be in the real world!

  • @robingile4301
    @robingile4301 10 місяців тому +2

    As to that last illustration, quite a band and Lexi on drums.

  • @WhoIsCalli
    @WhoIsCalli 10 місяців тому +2

    Great essay Lexi. Feel like Tolkien would approve of this vid 🧝‍♂️

  • @Limubi1
    @Limubi1 10 місяців тому +4

    Not the easiest territory for you to navigate through but you did a fine job. Many thanks, as ever.

  • @AnimeSunglasses
    @AnimeSunglasses 8 місяців тому +2

    YES. More Linguistics Georg content, please!

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  8 місяців тому

      He is an OUTLIER and should not be counted! 😂😂 Glad you enjoyed!

  • @Thechezbailey
    @Thechezbailey 4 місяці тому +1

    One of my favorites from history is the Mughal Emperor Ahmed I, also called Ahmed the Great. Well, Ahmed means "Great," so we English call him "Great the Great."

  • @scotthudson8722
    @scotthudson8722 4 місяці тому +1

    Fantastic!

  • @jacobsedlack1173
    @jacobsedlack1173 10 місяців тому +10

    I loved it when I learned that "Atarinke" in Elvish meant "little father", or in the vernacular, Junior. That is a name for a guy trying to invoke his dad's level of hardness when he is in fact bitch-made as Beren will attest about Curufinwe Atarinke.

  • @daniell1483
    @daniell1483 10 місяців тому +14

    As a would-be writer myself, I can really appreciate the care Tolkien put into determining what a person should be called among his own people. It provides this whole new layer of meaning for every character, giving insight into what they thought important enough to communicate about one another. It really allows characters to really define themselves as a concept.

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  10 місяців тому +4

      With a lot of his worldbuilding, names in particular I think Tolkien shows the effort he put into getting out of his own perspective and into that of his characters. It definitely improves the experience!

    • @MadAtreides1
      @MadAtreides1 10 місяців тому +1

      I followed writing lessons by Brandon Sanderson, most of which you can find registered in videos here on YT, and he seems to repeat each year to just not waste time thinking too much about names. His words, not mine. His point semms to be that Tolkien was doing something he was passionate about while writing but that coherent naming conventions are not a requirement by no means.

  • @rossm7346
    @rossm7346 10 місяців тому +2

    I’m so glad to have found this channel

  • @janach1305
    @janach1305 7 місяців тому +2

    Weird things can happen when people don’t understand another culture’s naming conventions. In the 1960s, an Englishman named Donald Charles Alfred Crowhurst took part in an around-the-world yacht race. One of the rules was that anyone who stopped on land along the way was disqualified. Crowhurst was not the world’s best sailor, and he ended up having to stop in a small town on the coast of Argentina. The town officials needed to record his arrival, and he gave them all four of his names. They knew only Spanish naming conventions, not English. They assumed “Donald” was the English version of the Spanish title “Don,” his given name was Charles, his father’s family name was Alfred, and his mother’s family name was Crowhurst. It was Charles Alfred who was officially listed as having come ashore in an obscure Argentinian harbor, thereby keeping secret the fact that he broke the rules. It turned out not to matter, because he didn’t survive the race.

  • @jarrodcarver9001
    @jarrodcarver9001 10 місяців тому +8

    Thanks Lexi! I've been excited for this!

  • @Phantasia_Workshop
    @Phantasia_Workshop 10 місяців тому +2

    Sauron on the double neck BC Rich. Nice 🤘

  • @TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj
    @TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj 10 місяців тому +14

    God bless you and your work young lady ❤❤❤ I admire your passion and beautiful passionate narration,respect from Croatia 😇😇😇💙💙💙

  • @Disgruntled_Grunt
    @Disgruntled_Grunt 10 місяців тому +1

    That outro screen is great. Sauron as an electric guitarist is a woefully underutilized image that I've only seen here and in the Tolkien Untangled video on the Finrod-Sauron musical duel.

  • @jarrodcarver9001
    @jarrodcarver9001 10 місяців тому +7

    Really liked the artwork in this one!

  • @sainiharika
    @sainiharika 10 місяців тому +3

    “Ever more meticulous lore in a uniquely organic way”. Love how u put it Lexi. Such a great video as always 🔥🔥🔥. We love to watch more videos on this area of Middle Earth🧡🧡🧡.

  • @mag_lore
    @mag_lore 10 місяців тому +2

    I LOVE elven names and naming customs, its one of my favorite parts of Tolkiens world, I've read the shibboleth of Fëanor more times than I can count lol. I would love to see more videos on linguistics!

  • @TerryDowne
    @TerryDowne 10 місяців тому +3

    Squad? Please address us as "Eored."

    • @EriktheRed2023
      @EriktheRed2023 10 місяців тому +2

      ... Can I borrow a horse, then?

  • @robingile4301
    @robingile4301 10 місяців тому +1

    Fascinating, very ahh, technically evolved, and thank you.

  • @shanenolan5625
    @shanenolan5625 10 місяців тому +17

    Thanks lexi a pleasure as always to hear your voice

  • @EriktheRed2023
    @EriktheRed2023 10 місяців тому +3

    It says a lot about Tokien's intent that elves have up to four names, maybe in more than one language, and no two elves are supposed to share names. He really liked making names.

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  10 місяців тому +3

      And he hated letting a good name go to waste!

    • @johnt.inscrutable1545
      @johnt.inscrutable1545 9 місяців тому

      @@GirlNextGondorSadly, I think his use of Gildor Inglorion was wasted in that tiny little bit with the 3 Hobbits.
      Not to mention that his “house” was not really the house of Finrod as Finrod had no get. Gildor was later shown to be of the house of Finarfin.

  • @LetsTalkHerps
    @LetsTalkHerps 10 місяців тому +1

    I really enjoyed the whole episode. But I particularly reacted to the outro. Cool and fun.

  • @aslandarklion8094
    @aslandarklion8094 10 місяців тому +1

    A drop in the ocean of Professo Tolkien's passion for language. What an excellent video friend.!!!

  • @ceoofthen-word8849
    @ceoofthen-word8849 10 місяців тому +2

    So they are not named after prescription medication as I previously assumed

  • @docopoper
    @docopoper 10 місяців тому +2

    This video gave me much more of a perspective on how rigid elven society is. The story of people getting mad over names and the whole thing of having private names reminded me of Japan.

  • @IanHeins
    @IanHeins 10 місяців тому +2

    Nice work thanks

  • @valaraukar_595
    @valaraukar_595 10 місяців тому +3

    I know that some people were faster to comment, but goddamn, Teleporno is the campiest name in all the Legendarium

  • @jackthehumanofficial
    @jackthehumanofficial 10 місяців тому

    more silm!

  • @oxylepy2
    @oxylepy2 10 місяців тому +1

    When a mommy elf and a daddy elf love eachother very much, they have a baby elf. And they name that baby.

  • @ricomariani
    @ricomariani 6 місяців тому +1

    Thanks!

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  6 місяців тому +1

      Thank you so much Rico! I had fun with this video. 🙂

  • @skatemetrix
    @skatemetrix 10 місяців тому +11

    The name Teleporno explains why Galadriel a Noldor elf born in Valinor -- who eclipsed her husband Celeborn in almost every way possible -- stayed with a lesser Sindar elf.

  • @DavidTheConkerer
    @DavidTheConkerer 10 місяців тому +1

    Extremely fascinating!!!! \o/

  • @mikedonohue9927
    @mikedonohue9927 10 місяців тому +4

    Byah!

  • @istari0
    @istari0 10 місяців тому +1

    While I am unsure if I will ever get a good grasp of all the linguistics behind the names and naming conventions Tolkien employed, it is still an obvious measure of the effort and care Tolkien put into the Legendarium that the names have real meanings and history behind them.

    • @johnt.inscrutable1545
      @johnt.inscrutable1545 9 місяців тому

      Don’t worry about getting a handle on all of Tolkien’s conventions, etc. Just remember that it took him a lifetime to create them and he wasn’t finished when he died.

  • @someone56243
    @someone56243 9 місяців тому +1

    Love this stuff

  • @ScaricoOleoso
    @ScaricoOleoso 10 місяців тому +2

    Which Elvis? Presley or Billingham?

  • @matthewdunham1689
    @matthewdunham1689 10 місяців тому +2

    ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ incredible but a little too deep and technical for me. Just like Tolkien himself with his superhuman language abilities. I have a hard enough time with English, my native language! Truly incredible and fascinating. I'm like proto man contemplating the black monolith. 😂❤😉❤

  • @Enerdhil
    @Enerdhil 10 місяців тому +4

    In my real life, I have a name my mother gave me (my middle name). It is not European. That name I was called by everyone until I was 30 years old. Then I chose to change my name to my first name, which was my father's name for me.
    Now I use the Elven name "Enerdhil" for UA-cam.
    I suspect everyone has a story of why they chose the names they chose for social media.

    • @eluthiccgol4715
      @eluthiccgol4715 10 місяців тому +6

      My social media name story is extremely intricate and profound.

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 10 місяців тому +2

      @@eluthiccgol4715
      "Elu" is already a great start.😁👍

    • @douglasoglu
      @douglasoglu 10 місяців тому +1

      It's super common in Turkey for people to go by their middle name rather than their first name. This caused some mutual confusion when I moved there for a while and had an office door with my name on it, which had erroneously been set up to have just my first initial then followed by my middle and surname. It felt bizarre and wrong to me, particularly given that my middle name is my father's first name, and yet it was still recognisably a version of my name. I also took to pronouncing my actual first name differently when speaking Turkish to Turks, in order (I guess) that they would understand correctly how it was spelt, almost as if people being able to visualise my name was more important to me than saying it in the way my parents had given it to me. Your comment made me connect this experience to how I suppose Tolkien's elves must have felt in working their names across exposure to very different languages through the ages.

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 10 місяців тому

      @@douglasoglu
      This is a great story. I think the Good Professor would have enjoyed hearing this.😁👍

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 10 місяців тому

      @@douglasoglu
      I met a Turkish man who went by a name that sounded and looked like Barahir. It wasn't that but very close. At least it seemed like Sindarin to me. Maybe you know some Turks with Sindarin-sounding names.

  • @emtiger3
    @emtiger3 6 місяців тому

    What of the "true name" that someone has? Tolkien seems to reference this, as a name that should not be given out to others lightly - if at all. It would seem to suggest the true name gives someone power over the individual. I recall mention of this idea from Morgoth's discourse with Hurin and Treebeard's discourse with Merry and Pippin.
    Note: My inferring the import of one's "true name" comes from an out of Legendarium source, that being the Books of Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin (who may herself have derived the concept from Prof. Tolkien??)

  • @billberndtson
    @billberndtson 10 місяців тому +1

    Do you do collabs? I can't think of a single LotR content creator that wouldn't be enhanced by knowing you.

  • @bigsarge2085
    @bigsarge2085 10 місяців тому +4

    No Elfy McElf-face here!

  • @annafdd
    @annafdd 10 місяців тому +2

    Ah-ha, but you left out how he packed a whole novel’s worth of characterisation into Maedhros’ name. Not only he avoid Nelyafinwë for obvious reasons, but unlike his brothers he does not simply Sindarinise his amilessë. No, he combines the root of his amilessë (Maite, well done or beautiful or precious, but also well *hand* crafted) with the root of his epessë (Russandol, basically gingerhead). Note that it was his maternal grandfather, Mahtan, who also had red hair, to give him his epessë. So his name might mean Good (looking) Ginger, or it could mean … red-handed. This is the name he adopts as a reaction to Thingol’s Quenya ban, following the discovery of the Alqualondë… incident.
    So, Maedhros eschews his father name which is an explicit snub of his uncle (least he could do, but possibly he also found being named to spite his uncle a bit demeaning). He does not take his mother’s name of “Look What A Gorgeous Child I Made”, but he does keep the root and he combines it with another name coming from the non-finwian side. He is a Tolkien creation, and a Noldor, and a son of the greatest Noldor linguists - he knows it’s a dark pun and he knows it means, in context, “I am a murderer and I regret nothing”, with a side order of “Fuck you Thingol”.

    • @Trigm
      @Trigm 10 місяців тому +1

      I'd like to point out that you do not seem to be a Tolkienian Linguist, or you would realize that 'maite-russa' would simply mean 'skilled with copperwork' if you are looking for a double meaning. Normally, it's just 'shapely red-head'.
      'maite-russa' cannot be analyzed as 'red-handed'. a) When 'maite' is used as '-handed' it is the second element in the compound. b) 'maite' is physical, not metaphorical, so 'red-handed' would simply be someone with a red or ruddy hand, not a bloody or guilty hand. and c) 'russa' means 'red, copper, *of hair* '.
      To make it even close to English 'red-handed' it would need to be 'sercemaite' 'blood-handed' or Sindarin 'seregmaed'.

    • @annafdd
      @annafdd 10 місяців тому +1

      @@Trigm I am indeed not, but I trust the great Clothonono, where I got the idea:
      “Maedhros the Tall, Prince Warden of the Eastmarch and Lord of Himring, to Elu Thingol, King of Doriath, greetings.
      Hail King Thingol! We are gratefully made aware of your Ban upon the high speech of the Calaquendi. Be it far from me to argue with your wisdom. In this time of war against Morgoth the Enemy of the World, I can think of no better use of our energies than to make stern decrees on linguistic matters.
      In fact, I thank you for the opportunity. I have felt for a long time now that my name was somewhat unfortunate. My mother in her affection named me Handsome-alas, the root she chose was maitë, which in its most literal meaning is Handed; you see the irony, I am sure. Therefore I am delighted to change that name for one more fitting. Henceforth I shall name myself in the tongue of the Sindar Maedhros, so that without discarding my mother's affection altogether I need not be so painfully ill-named. I intend it to be read as Handsome Redhead, which suits me very well. Do disregard any other meanings that may occur to you.
      Elu Thingol, High King of Beleriand, to Maedhros Red-Handed.
      I suppose you think yourself witty, boy. Your grandfather would be ashamed of you.”

  • @ghostdreamer7272
    @ghostdreamer7272 10 місяців тому +1

    Sindar royal family = El
    Noldor royal family = Fin
    El-Fin
    Elfin
    Elven
    Elves!

  • @hglundahl
    @hglundahl 10 місяців тому

    17:47 sth "Finnishness" ... intended pun on some Oxonian's part?
    You know, that Kalevala fan ???

  • @PleaseNThankYou
    @PleaseNThankYou 10 місяців тому +6

    Ok!! First in line today. Howdy, and how's yer Mom an them?! ( that Southern)

  • @Anshelm77
    @Anshelm77 10 місяців тому

    9:53 Perhaps Teleporno was also a prophetic name, and he became the first person in the Undying Lands to have an OnlyFans account.

  • @beatleblev
    @beatleblev 10 місяців тому +5

    Shout out to the Silmarillion Appendices! A one stop shop for all of your Elven/Dunedain naming needs. Need a noble name? Just start with Ar. Are they bad guys? Add some Mor. Need a name for your dragon riding titans? Valheru will do nicely if your Feisty.
    Consider this a vote for any language videos. The languages Tolkien created are at the core of the Legendarium. Feel free to touch on Adunic (Egyptian influences?), Khuzdul, or the Black Speech if you wish. What is your favorite on-the-nose name for a Legendarium character? Mine is the, not to be BBG, Herumor. Are we sure this wasn't just a place holder?

  • @ScaricoOleoso
    @ScaricoOleoso 10 місяців тому +3

    Arwen just means Lady. 🤣

    • @GirlNextGondor
      @GirlNextGondor  10 місяців тому +2

      'Finduilas? No... already used that one. How about... hm... 'girl.' But, like, an important one.'
      - JRRT, sweating his torturous way through the rough draft of Book VI

    • @Trigm
      @Trigm 10 місяців тому +1

      Not quite. It's more a poetic form 'Noble Maiden'. The normal words for 'lady' would be *heryn* , *híril* , or *rodel* all of which more or less mean 'lady, female lord'.

  • @LordTelperion
    @LordTelperion 17 днів тому

    Finwe = Caesar

  • @AlphariusDominatus
    @AlphariusDominatus 10 місяців тому +2

    This is one of my biggest questions until I realized.. it doesn't matter

  • @ChristineNeilson
    @ChristineNeilson 4 місяці тому +1

    Perhaps Legolas liked to drink a lot