Harris is a vocal atheist who uses his platform to speak up against the ills and evils of religion. In this live stream we will pick his brain on his experiences doing so.
For past few days, I was thinking how great it would be to see Harris and Vimoh in one stream or interview, and here it is. Thank you both for doing this
I am a Muslim. I enjoyed listening to this talk, although I have my own disagreements and reservations. I acknowledge that the literal, irrational and anachronistic interpretations of the Qur'an and Hadiths have created a lot of real problems in the Muslim community. I have a comment to make which I feel will help you to better engage with the Muslim audience. I feel that historically any external attempt to reform the Muslim community has either failed or resulted in disastrous consequences (unless it happened organically or as an accident of history). What we need instead is a revival of many of the lost intellectual traditions in the Islamic history itself. For eg. the neoplatonist philosophical school of Ibn Sina (Avicenna), and rationalist theological framework formulated by Ibn Rushd (Averroes) as opposition to the "orthodox" schools of Al-Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyya and others. We also need to bring back into discussion some of very interesting philosophical points articulated by the Mutazilite school of Islamic theology, which was the very dominant rationalist movement in the classical Islamic world. Alongside that were another group of rationalist theologians from the Shi'i Ismaili branch of Islam. Both of these schools built a strong opposition to the classical orthodox Sunni theology. Apart from Rationalism, we need to bring back some of the sophisticated forms of Islamic mysticism like that of Ibn Arabi to counter the dry, irrational, literalist interpretations of Islamic scriptures. So rather than imposing modernist ideas on the Islamic community, we need to derive sustenance from the Islamic tradition itself to organically purge out the toxic elements. Then the community itself will progress in a positive direction. Thanks, Best regards.
@@MegaBaddog Ghazali didn't defeat anyone. There was no boxing match, not even an intellectual one. He merely deconstructed and critiqued the Philosophers, Rationalists and Ismailis in his works. However, after him Ibn Rushd wrote an extensive rebuttal to Ghazali. No school of theology and philosophy lied about anything, neither the Mu'tazilah nor the Shias. They have different methodology of interpretation of scripture. You may disagree with their methodology. Whichever methodology is dominant at a given time and place is not a function of truth, but a function of power. During the Abbasid period, particularly the reign of Harum Al Rashid and Al-Mamun, the Mu'tazilah school of thought developed and became the de facto school of religious interpretation during that time. Today, the literalist non-philosophical Salafi methodology of interpretation is the loudest one due to the power of petrodollars pushed by Saudis. Saudis enforce tight censorship on scholarship in the Kingdom and indoctrinate the pilgrims during Hajj, Umrah too.
Vimoh your articulation and clarity is just amazing. I'm hoping for a day you could have discussions or debates on religion and politics with certain popular youtubers that I also consider very articulate and eloquent irrespective of the views they hold.
Many indian muslims are debating other muslims and mullah but indian muslims themselves don't consume that content. I hope that changes bcz those guys are doing some good work. Please watch ex muslim sahil and Adam seeker.
Interesting perspectives on this. I am not sure i can fully agree with the idea that religion is "dead", because religion as a social fact is going to continue to evolve I think. The structures which are conducive to such social facts show no signs of going away or undergoing any sudden rapid structural shift. But I like both of your outlook for the future, I also think the future of morality and other philosophical ideas is going to be interesting to see!
Just watched this video. Since it's an old video, I don't know if you have already discussed this point. The misnomer of Hindu atheism and Hinduism having the concept of atheism comes from the confusion that a lot of Indians have. Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hinduism is not an organised religion. A better comparison would be between cultures of American, English, French, Arabic, Japanese, Chinese and Indian subcontinent. This peninsula had lots of philosophies coming out of it. Smaller ones became tribes. Bigger ones emerged as Shaivaism, Vaishnav, Buddhism, Jainism, and how some of them assimilated or disintegrated. Over a millenia, the modern day religion called 'Hinduism' is a collection a lot of local traditions in different parts of the peninsula, intentionally and unintentionally by the Brahmanical proponents. Ahtiesm was just one school of thought that had its takers but that does not make it a part of the 'Hinduism'. What we can praise and celebrate is this land that had so many kinds of thinkers. While it might not be comparable in numbers, others regions did have their share of freethinkers including Arabia. Case in point - Abu Bakr Al-Razi. Another victim to this thought process is taking credit for mathematical and physics theories as being part of the religion. Those thinkers were based in this peninsula. But there is nothing divine about it. It tells how rich the culture, art and education was in ancient India. So rich that their masterpieces still interest people who don't see them as divine creations.
You were talking about atheism being compatible with Hinduism, your argument is kind of true as we have accounts in the past that carvaka’s had to face social isolation and even violence in many cases in the past.
I want to share with you some of my observations of the society I think I know what I should answer on what a hindu belief is. One word “ confused “ I can’t really blame them for that. It’s really going to take a lifetime for us to explore all schools of philosophical thought and it’s just too vast. Also, I have observed that people tend to outsource their decision making to a guru if they have any. Otherwise elders. And the knowledge Hindus generally have about their book is generally less. I am not saying that for all cases but it was my general observation. No one can realistically agree which book to follow and what is written in which books. But a general consensus is between bhagwad geeta, manusmriti or vedas. This is what I have observed Hinduism based on. 1) our own experiences 2) elders thinking 3) guidance of a guru
One of the most anti-god movie that I have watched ever is "Life of Pi". And irony is that they sell it by saying that by the end of the movie you will start believing in God. The concept of God is just a made up thing like the amazing things shown in the movie. The reality is just sad & depressing, so we create some unbelievable things to make it more hopeful. So that's why there is God, it is just to give us hope. Please correct me if I interpreted it wrongly.
Ramunujan never lied.his brain was so fast. He must have had some mental condition. Fast computers are more Susceptible to virus. I don't blame him. After all he was a human being just like us.
I think harris falls into the trap of hating people based on religion and peddling western narratives I think his recent views of palestine are abhorrent while i disagree with islam and islamic doctrine completely it is genuinely inhumane to use those disagreements to stand with a genocide thocratic aphartied state
8:50 Thank you Vimoh for talking about power structure. I too have noticed this that many right wing Hindus use Haris Sultan to support their hatred towards Islam
For past few days, I was thinking how great it would be to see Harris and Vimoh in one stream or interview, and here it is. Thank you both for doing this
"Religion is intellectual laziness" Interesting quote!
For past few days, I was thinking how great it would be to see Harris and Vimoh in one stream or interview, and here it is. Thank you both for doing this
Hope you enjoyed it!
Excellent stream!! Really enjoyed listening to both of you on my morning walk. You have earned urself a new subscriber! Love from Pakistan ❤️
Really interesting stream. Love both of you guys !! 🙏🙏
Thanks so much!
"Evidence never denies evolution it denies the origin of life that Desert cult proposes".👌🤓
Everybody has a theory. 😂. Not everyone has an audience to listen.
Awesome talk! Glad to hear two level headed people talk about a topic that affects both countries so much and in such a bad way.
This has got to be one of the best videos I have ever come across … thank you ❤
Great Harris sultan ..... Im an exmuslim athiest from india
I am Muslim atheist from India. Harris sultan great 👍
Loved this talk Vimoh and Harris.
Humanity doesn’t need any religion❤
Great rational discussion in Indian UA-cam channel.
What a worthy rational livestream ❤
Fact : hindus clap when you say against islam
True
And vice versa
@@kingflockthewarrior202 true
This stream was so amazing! One of my favourite on this channel but then I say that about all of Vimoh's videos.
Nice live stream....this will surely add more and more subscribers for you
I am a Muslim. I enjoyed listening to this talk, although I have my own disagreements and reservations. I acknowledge that the literal, irrational and anachronistic interpretations of the Qur'an and Hadiths have created a lot of real problems in the Muslim community.
I have a comment to make which I feel will help you to better engage with the Muslim audience. I feel that historically any external attempt to reform the Muslim community has either failed or resulted in disastrous consequences (unless it happened organically or as an accident of history). What we need instead is a revival of many of the lost intellectual traditions in the Islamic history itself. For eg. the neoplatonist philosophical school of Ibn Sina (Avicenna), and rationalist theological framework formulated by Ibn Rushd (Averroes) as opposition to the "orthodox" schools of Al-Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyya and others.
We also need to bring back into discussion some of very interesting philosophical points articulated by the Mutazilite school of Islamic theology, which was the very dominant rationalist movement in the classical Islamic world. Alongside that were another group of rationalist theologians from the Shi'i Ismaili branch of Islam. Both of these schools built a strong opposition to the classical orthodox Sunni theology.
Apart from Rationalism, we need to bring back some of the sophisticated forms of Islamic mysticism like that of Ibn Arabi to counter the dry, irrational, literalist interpretations of Islamic scriptures.
So rather than imposing modernist ideas on the Islamic community, we need to derive sustenance from the Islamic tradition itself to organically purge out the toxic elements. Then the community itself will progress in a positive direction.
Thanks,
Best regards.
Hi Farogh. I believe you asked me this point to me on Instagram and I responded with audio notes. Thanks for asking. :)
Brother even I feel the same regarding the reforms in Islamic society, especially when we analyse it in the Indian context.
al ghazali soundly defeated all shias and mutaziltes lies and theories.
@@MegaBaddog Ghazali didn't defeat anyone. There was no boxing match, not even an intellectual one. He merely deconstructed and critiqued the Philosophers, Rationalists and Ismailis in his works. However, after him Ibn Rushd wrote an extensive rebuttal to Ghazali. No school of theology and philosophy lied about anything, neither the Mu'tazilah nor the Shias. They have different methodology of interpretation of scripture. You may disagree with their methodology. Whichever methodology is dominant at a given time and place is not a function of truth, but a function of power. During the Abbasid period, particularly the reign of Harum Al Rashid and Al-Mamun, the Mu'tazilah school of thought developed and became the de facto school of religious interpretation during that time. Today, the literalist non-philosophical Salafi methodology of interpretation is the loudest one due to the power of petrodollars pushed by Saudis. Saudis enforce tight censorship on scholarship in the Kingdom and indoctrinate the pilgrims during Hajj, Umrah too.
Vimoh your articulation and clarity is just amazing.
I'm hoping for a day you could have discussions or debates on religion and politics with certain popular youtubers that I also consider very articulate and eloquent irrespective of the views they hold.
Wah, a conversation I thought would only happen in my dreams, is now a reality. Great discussion guys 👍🏼
Please collaborate more.
Great 👍
A former Hindu and Indian atheist here 😊
Kya sahi podcast tha bro 👍
Very nice stream
Many indian muslims are debating other muslims and mullah but indian muslims themselves don't consume that content. I hope that changes bcz those guys are doing some good work. Please watch ex muslim sahil and Adam seeker.
Good video! I wanted to know how can i reach you guys for a conversation?
On our channels. This is mine.
Interesting perspectives on this. I am not sure i can fully agree with the idea that religion is "dead", because religion as a social fact is going to continue to evolve I think. The structures which are conducive to such social facts show no signs of going away or undergoing any sudden rapid structural shift. But I like both of your outlook for the future, I also think the future of morality and other philosophical ideas is going to be interesting to see!
Just watched this video. Since it's an old video, I don't know if you have already discussed this point. The misnomer of Hindu atheism and Hinduism having the concept of atheism comes from the confusion that a lot of Indians have. Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hinduism is not an organised religion. A better comparison would be between cultures of American, English, French, Arabic, Japanese, Chinese and Indian subcontinent. This peninsula had lots of philosophies coming out of it. Smaller ones became tribes. Bigger ones emerged as Shaivaism, Vaishnav, Buddhism, Jainism, and how some of them assimilated or disintegrated. Over a millenia, the modern day religion called 'Hinduism' is a collection a lot of local traditions in different parts of the peninsula, intentionally and unintentionally by the Brahmanical proponents. Ahtiesm was just one school of thought that had its takers but that does not make it a part of the 'Hinduism'. What we can praise and celebrate is this land that had so many kinds of thinkers.
While it might not be comparable in numbers, others regions did have their share of freethinkers including Arabia. Case in point - Abu Bakr Al-Razi.
Another victim to this thought process is taking credit for mathematical and physics theories as being part of the religion. Those thinkers were based in this peninsula. But there is nothing divine about it. It tells how rich the culture, art and education was in ancient India. So rich that their masterpieces still interest people who don't see them as divine creations.
Every year millions of Chinese go outside of their country; and millions outsiders visit Chins; China is not "locked" country.
It is. Never trust no Chinese
Can Harris sultan start back ilhad ka teeka I missed it . 😂
Vimoh a channel called Astha Mukti.... Doing some real great stuff... 10-15 k Indian atheist UA-camr.....
Checked it out. Looks amazing.
First Comment !
Commenting just for reach of the video.
You were talking about atheism being compatible with Hinduism, your argument is kind of true as we have accounts in the past that carvaka’s had to face social isolation and even violence in many cases in the past.
Love Harris
This chat would’ve been even more interesting in Hindi/urdu
👌👌👌keep it up.
Second comment !
TOO MUCH OF FREE SPEECH IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN TOO LITTLE OF IT. ✌️✌️
I want to share with you some of my observations of the society
I think I know what I should answer on what a hindu belief is.
One word “ confused “
I can’t really blame them for that.
It’s really going to take a lifetime for us to explore all schools of philosophical thought and it’s just too vast. Also, I have observed that people tend to outsource their decision making to a guru if they have any. Otherwise elders.
And the knowledge Hindus generally have about their book is generally less. I am not saying that for all cases but it was my general observation. No one can realistically agree which book to follow and what is written in which books. But a general consensus is between bhagwad geeta, manusmriti or vedas.
This is what I have observed Hinduism based on.
1) our own experiences
2) elders thinking
3) guidance of a guru
‘ Ab aagay ho jo bhi anjaam dekha jaayega……
Khuda taraash liya aur bandagi karli…
Milay na phool to kaantoon se dosti karli…. Kaifi Azmi
Great work ❤❤
One of the most anti-god movie that I have watched ever is "Life of Pi". And irony is that they sell it by saying that by the end of the movie you will start believing in God. The concept of God is just a made up thing like the amazing things shown in the movie. The reality is just sad & depressing, so we create some unbelievable things to make it more hopeful. So that's why there is God, it is just to give us hope. Please correct me if I interpreted it wrongly.
u both have great brain
Probably the best stream made me a more hard core atheist ⚛️
As an atheist,I ask myself,why would Ramanujan lie?
Ramunujan never lied.his brain was so fast. He must have had some mental condition. Fast computers are more Susceptible to virus. I don't blame him. After all he was a human being just like us.
Hichens Dawkins Spalosky Dillahunty sam haris are legends.
Please drop a link of duplicate sun ... 😂😂😂 Am intrigued😂😂😂😂
I seem to agree with you though
Nice stream
I think harris falls into the trap of hating people based on religion and peddling western narratives
I think his recent views of palestine are abhorrent while i disagree with islam and islamic doctrine completely it is genuinely inhumane to use those disagreements to stand with a genocide thocratic aphartied state
I think Harris is a self serving grifter. His positions are in consistent.
@TheSecularHumanist yeah i would agree with that
Its the same as apostate prophet serving the right wing Islamophobia narritive
True , I as ex Muslim don't at all watch his videos because I sense of hatred in his videos .
Shoutout to my man Galileo.
I m spiritual just need some clue on creator or Almighty.
excellent
I wonder if both of you hold same view about the vaccine...especially covid vaccine
Isn't funny theist even rejects evolving religious belief,,,?
Harris " experts" can also be co-opted. I get what you say but do not connect the anti vaxxer issue with freedom of speech.
If you realy love robots. Watch battle angel alita.
Yeah mast ha uthalete ha 😂😂😂
Is being an athiest is ur only achievement so far😂😂
8:50 Thank you Vimoh for talking about power structure. I too have noticed this that many right wing Hindus use Haris Sultan to support their hatred towards Islam
And muslims support vimoh because he speaks against hindus
For past few days, I was thinking how great it would be to see Harris and Vimoh in one stream or interview, and here it is. Thank you both for doing this
Bro imagine Vimoh and Armin Navabi..... That would be mad