50hz vs 60hz on the Sega Saturn!
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Years ago I had no idea about PAL and NTSC, but now, many, many years later and with decades of knowledge behind me, I thought it is about time to showcase the exact differences you get when you play games at 50hz or 60hz on the Sega Saturn. Enjoy!
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*Once you go 60hz you ain't ever going back!*
Whilst the difference in some PAL and NTSC games is minor, for others it is simply unbelievable. PAL gamers got a seriously short straw in years gone by!
Good thing I had been playing 1024x768 on PC already for years at that point.
however for many racing or fighting games, 50hz is more convenient, due to the fast pace of 60Hz you nearly cannot play or enjoy the action. Fighting games are more unrealistic being so fast. However for platform or other games, unfortunately for us in Europe, NTSC wins
PS2 owners were still getting shafted with many PAL50hz only right up until PS3 got launched 😂
4:38 TR1 being vertically stretched on both NTSC Saturn and PlayStation versions is a known issue. On those two consoles, the PAL versions are the only way to play with correct proportions.
Great video! Didn't realise that Lobotomy's PAL conversions were so good.
Yep, that is something lots of people fail to notice. 320x240 is not perfectly 4:3 on ntsc displays, it always looks a little stretched vertically.
I wonder, what vertical resolution are this Pal conversions using?, and i mean the ones that don´t have that much black borders, i´m assuming 256 progressive or 512 in interlace content.
@jsr734 It's only an issue with TR1 on Saturn/PlayStation. Normally, the issue was reversed, with our 50Hz PAL games looking squished if they were letterboxed/had borders.
Core were based in the UK, and so this element eluded them on TR1. Didn't happen on TR2 or beyond.
Algorithm sent me here. Got yourself another subsciber! Just gambled on an ebay Saturn. Heres hoping it works out!
Hopefully it's all good!
The opening sequence in Virtua Cop is also busted on PAL. The music ends before the video.
Very interesting mate! I had to get my Saturn switched back in the day and the 60hz versions of games were a must. Stuff like the big 3 were pretty decently optimised for PAL but I still have to go for the NTSC versions when I play now, and for the Capcom fighting games 60hz is essential! The PAL versions of SF Alpha 1 and 2 did switch to 60hz pretty well on my Saturn when I hit the switch, I think on Alpha 2 the only thing I really noticed was that the music went out of sync on the intro cut scene, but other than that it all seemed to run pretty well and filled the screen nicely and sped up well.
Very cool video, nice work!
Thanks for commenting!
Yes I got a Saturn with a 60hz switch just for Marvel V Street Fighter. The difference was crazy
ah the wonderful Saturn. I used to have four pal machines that were modded to be switchable at the back. I eventually sold them because I couldn't bear a future when the drives would eventually die. Something now at least we can fix at least with ISO readers. The Saturn had easily the best dashboard startup and feel and despite liking my Ps1, I loved my Saturn oh and my N64 NTSC which I have quite a few still. You're right though it was through this era that allowed us to see those differences between pal and NTSC and I think it prompted many to switch over
I came away from having seen some footage of Waverace64 and noticed that my pal version was not as fast game wise but also fps were lower. As I compared the two I noticed the waves physics felt gloopy and inauthentic obviously because the game being designed around that and this compelled me to buy an import machine rather sharply soon after. Before that point I was quite happy to see Waverace 64 running as it was on pal but when comparing the two it was hard to go back because it now felt like Moonrace64. There are less lines of course on NTSC so it's a tad degraded in that sense but losing a massive 17% for pal and borders too of course wasn't I felt acceptable. It's not a thing these days on new consoles thankfully
Thats definitely not a popular opinion of King of Fighters 95, but yes, anyone who is still playing PAL today probably doesn't really know what they're missing out on, although optimisation of a reasonable amount of titles on Saturn means it isn't always too much of an issue, there are enough "must have" titles on the system that are spoiled by one or more of the following : "letterboxing" with compressed graphics, slower game speed, and lower FPS.
Switching/converting to 60hz is a game changer, and the great thing is, once you switch to 60hz, you get to experience those games you love all over again now with improvements (sometimes major improvements).
Thanks for commenting. I'll give KoF 95 far more time when I review it but it seems nowhere near as good as the Street Fighter Alpha games, or even Golden Axe: The Duel from what I've played. 🙈
Question: Were the original arcades sold in Pal territories 60hz or 50hz?. If they were 50hz, were they optimized for 50hz?
@@gameshack1985 well Capcom respected the KoF franchise enough to collaborate with SNK to produce (what are essentially) 3 Streetfighter vs King of Fighters games in Capcom vs SNK millennium fight 2000, Capcom vs SNK 2 2001, and SNK vs Capcom: SVC Chaos along with other variations of those titles, sure, KoF is not so popular in the west but very big in Japan, and I certainly don't recall hearing of any Golden Axe the Duel tournaments 😁👍
@@RetroGamesBoy78 I'll start my own! 😂
@@jsr734I should imagine they had some sort of converter in them so they would run on 240 volts UK mains electricity, it wasn't like they had to worry about plugging anything into a 50hz TV, which was the reason consoles were like that in PAL territories.
Sega did optimise their Pal region games mostly, was appreciated at the time.
Some were definitely done better than others. No-one is going to tell me Daytona USA was optimised at all though! lol
Psx ntsc bootleg copies made us europeans love NTSC, as they run 60hz on a pal Ps1 and just needed a full RGB scart cable to show in colour on our pal tvs.
On the other hand, Saturn bootleg ntsc copies were downgraded to pal format when run on a pal Saturn, no full rgb scart cable needed.
Good to see a video about this. For me the timing issues are usually what bothers me. I collect PAL but mostly play NTSC versions of my games. You can run unoptimised PAL games in 60Hz which is a plus but anything that has been partially optomised will give you problems.
Yeah, I tried PAL Golden Axe: The Duel in 60hz and it was not a good look, with a chunk of the screen chopped off! 😂
Interesting fact that European devs made better pal games. For instance destruction derby on the PlayStation 1 pal plays in normal speed and the ntsc version is literally runs faster same as the wipeout games. It’s almost unplayable it’s so fast on the ntsc version.
I always felt some Master System games were too fast at 60hz!
Great video. Worth mentioning the pal version of Daytona is basically broken due to how they changed the timing hence its so much harder. Some good vids out there covering the differences of how Daytona pal is one of the most broken pal games ever. The only pal game that's better than the japanese version is the OG Virtua Fighter due mainly to how rushed the japanese version was, they did quite a bit of polishing by the time of the pal launch, well worth checking out. There could be more out there, but I'm not aware of them.
Thanks!
Wow, Pal interlace flicker is intense in Virtua Fighter 2.
In defense of the PAL Capcom fighting games, they match a little better the 1:1 square pixel aspect from the original Arcade´s resolution of 384x224, but sadly Saturn cannot display such resolution as the Ps1 did.
It's odd, I never notice that when playing VF2....but then when I recorded it..I noticed.. hmm
@@gameshack1985 Maybe you are using "Bob deinterlacing" and the deinterlacing is optimized for NTSC 60hz not for PAL 50hz
Thanks Dude, best video yet 😁
Really good to see the comparisons, I always thought all NTSC games ran faster and generally looked better, not much in it with some of these examples. I have a Japanese console thats multi region, when I play pal games on it they get cropped but go full screen; its weird. Have to say prefer sega rally on ntsc, it just seems smoother?
I probably would need to play some of them more to really notice every minor difference! Thanks for commenting! I might consider a part 2 at some point in the future!
Thats what's known as overscanning, its when the picture is too big for the screen, It's usually games that have been optimised that do this, fortunately a hell of a lot of PAL titles just revert into a normal 60hz screen size and frame rate, even some on this list here, (SFA 2, Daytona, for sure) another 2 favourite PAL titles that improve in a 60hz Machine are Wipeout 2097 and Mortal Kombat 2, silky smooth frame rate on WO2097 and 20% faster gameplay on MK2 👍
@@RetroGamesBoy78 Thanks for the info, I did wonder why some looked better and why others looked 'zoomed in', maybe there is a list somewhere, could be a good video!
You covered this in a previous video, but Cyber Speedway PAL is better than at least the American NTSC version because it retains the better Japanese soundtrack
I love the Cyber Speedway soundtrack!
Good subject on this video. Most optimised pal games I prefer over ntsc. Pal has slightly better resolution and better colors. Pal is the superior format after all.
There are some exceptions like daytona usa and fighters megamix that were horribly optimised.
I think the best optimised are sega rally and panzer dragoon zwei
Shame they couldn't make all PAL games fill the 720x576 resolution! Everyone would have been jealous of PAL then instead of the other way around!!
@@gameshack1985 That is why i have always wanted to watch a Pal DVD, 720x576 resolution and almost perfect framerate for movies at 25fps, almost 24fps, instead of the weird thing they had to do to interpolate the original 24fps in a 30fps interlaced video.
I remember once I booted up my PAL version of Rayman in my japanese Saturn to see if I could take advantage of the 60hz. Only thing I remember is that so much of the screen was cut off that the parts where you ride a plum over water got REALLY tricky since you couldn't see where the plum was when you had to jump. Never bothered again after that, but I figure some games that weren't as optimized for PAL screens would work better.
Yeah, I think Rayman was optimised for PAL fairly well visually.
The same happens with Play Station and Ps2 Pal optimized games. NTSC can display a maximum of 240 progressive scanlines or 480 interlaced scanlines, but PAL optimized games should display 256 or 512 scanlines. Some Pal games actually were only upgraded to 240 scanlines from the original 224 ntsc versions, but as most NTSC tv´s overscan the picture to about 224/448 lines most graphics display at the edge of the 240 picture are hiden in overscan.
Soy español y lo que nos hicieron con los 50hz es imperdonable😢 ahoea que tengo las consolas a 60hz es otro mundo.
¡Estoy completamente de acuerdo! ¡Mucho mejor hoy en día!
Rolling Start!!!!!!😊
I do not mind playing games in PAL for the most part.
Though when importing I try to play in 60 HZ since you can experience some unintended issues as a result.
Yeah, trying to play Grandia and Magic Knight Rayearth at 50hz results in terrible FMV issues!
I think the NTSC/PAL difference is even more noticeable the farther in time you go back.
It got better with Dreamcast and Xbox (the original One😉) when a large number of european games offered support 60 hz (PAL 60) .
Back in Psx (Saturn) days I had my console modded and I bought a sizeable chuck of games from overseas.
@@federicocatelli8785 60hz supremacy!
PAL PS1, N64 and even most PS2 wasnt any better either lol 🤣
@TheKayliedGamerChannel-UA-cam The introduction of the Dreamcast changed it all really! Being able to select 50/60hz was great!
So you ignored the fram-rate(in some cases even the speed) and resolution between PAL(50Hz) and NTSC(60).
It wasn't a deep-dive into every single game, just directly noticeable differences when side by side...
Aren't both screens exactly 4:3 on an old-fashion CRT? I mean a television always IS 4:3.
P.S. Daytona looks ridiculously stretched on NTSC in 4:3 aspect ratio.
They are both 4:3 in the video, and if you play them on any TV, unless you choose to....stretch the image...🤮
The footage in the video is what they look like via RGB in 4:3. What you may notice with other videos on UA-cam is that people use emulators that don't represent the games accurately, or they zoom and crop the footage so it fills the screen. I show the footage exactly how it looks, unmodified.
Both Pal and NTSC are 4:3 but they don´t display square pixels. So even "perfect" 4:3 resolutions in square pixels like 320x240 get a little stretched vertically on ntsc displays, Sometimes developers and artist took measures to count the difference, making circles a liitle bit wider so they look correct on a tv display, but other times they didn´t.
I wrote reply wit a link in it to a forum explaining things. Got deleted. Maybe because of the link. Bye.
You can not compare Pal and NTSC on a emulator or what ever you used. You need a real Saturn with a CRT Display, your comparsion from the aspect ratio is not correct. NTSC with 480 lines and 60hz has on a CRT the same aspect ratio from 4:3 as on a PAL CRT with 50hz, because its final stretched from the CRT TV to the 4:3 ratio. A full screen PAL looks same as a NTSC fullscreen, only with a higher line spacing, because PAL 576 and NTSC 480. In the most cases, the PAL Saturn displayed not optimised PAL games with 480 lines in the 576 line grid with 50hz because of this you have letterbox bars and the aspect ratio is may be wrong.Many games was optimised for PAL resolution but with 50 hz without the aspect ratio problems, but with lower speed. Other games was optimised for speed too.
All my footage is recorded via an actual Saturn console and shows the differences between PAL 50hz and NTSC 60hz standard displays.
@@gameshack1985 Okay and PAl captured in 576i and NTSC in 480i? For the comparsion which video format do you use and are both with 4:3 imported with non square pixels?
@VGSuite The footage is recorded separately with PAL at 576i and NTSC at 480i. They are recorded as MPEG video if I'm not mistaken.
@@gameshack1985 Ok and how do you compare it, in a HD project? I mean for such comparsions you have to pay very close attention, like pixel format and many more to get exact results.
You're a mug if you buy pal Saturn games, terrible slow down, black borders & the worst cd cases ever produced! NTSC is far superior with the Japanese jewel cases and artwork being far superior