Nah, both Harely Quinn and Velma sucked. She deluded herself and completely rewrote her entire origin just so she wouldn't feel bad about the Joker tricking. Injustice Harely is a true "feminist" icon. She aknowleged that she's done bad things when she fell for the wrong guy and wants to seek redemption in spite of it@michaelthecinefile
Velma violently beats you over the head with its feminism. In fact that show violently beats you over the head with everything it does. The writers of Harley Quinn are aware that a show needs to be subtle (not to mention good) and support the main character with likable side characters, clever writing, and actual development for Harley Quinn. This in my opinion is why the show works much better. It uses its adult rating to its advantage rather than using it to perpetuate cheap middle school esque humor.
It doesn’t help that Velma (the character herself) is very hypocritical and particular about feminism. She seems to think that all women need to conform to her specific view of feminism otherwise they’re weak and inferior, instead of understanding and letting them express what feminism means to them. Plus, she sets a needlessly high standard on everyone around her, that nobody but herself can meet. So she puts herself on a pedestal, but the show never acknowledges this as a flaw she needs to overcome and makes her seem like she’s in the right
It's honestly not even feminism. It's what they *claim* it is. Yet, both shows *prevents* female characters from doing anything that isn't status quo. Then pat themselves on the back.
fr and in the velma show, they changed the characters designs not for the sake of the actual character but for diversity points and to make stereotypical jokes. Nothing is wrong with the race of the characters, but the fact that they changed already designed characters to a different race just is lazy character design imo they shouldnt ever do these things if they actually cared for the character
@@rei4172 I'm saying this as someone that hates Velma, I don't really think the show is that bad when it comes to character design and animation, like all of them have really distinct silhouettes and you can tell exactly the kind of personality the character is going to have immediately
Harley and Lego Batman does the one thing Velma doesnt: RESPECT THE SOURCE MATERIAL People wouldn't have hated the race swapping if the writers respected Scooby Doo just as much as the DC writers did for Harley and Lego Batman.
That and at least don’t look for an excuse to keep Fred white, if done well, i can over look race swapping if the actor actually comes off as their character.
@@tgiacin435 Nobody would have cared about Indian Velma and Asian Daphne if they still acted like their classic selves. The main reason why the Harley Quinn show works is because her comics are basically already this.
@@R.P.McMurphy As far as a comedy show, yeah they pretty respectful for the most part. There some lazy joke, but Bruce Wayne getting arrested for tax evasion will never not be funny and at least more original joke than Bruce Wayne should just give everybody money, which they also unfortunately did.
Velma is a good example of how not to do self inserts...or comedy...or characters...or stories...you know what; velma is just a bad example of everything. If anyone is planning on writing anything, they should watch velma for notes on what to NOT to do
I’ll admit I’m not the biggest fan of the Harley Quinn animated series, especially some of the more recent season, but even I can appreciate that. It had a level of respect for the source material that Velma clearly does not.
@@malikpierre-louis3343 Yeah, a lot of the superheroes get done dirty. Nightwing in particular, they humiliated and objectified Dick Grayson to hell and back (literally) but he’s not the only one. They took superman who is supposed to be the super compassionate guy and had him say “let’s just kick them into the Phantom zone to suffer forever just because we think they might be responsible for this crime even though we have no evidence“. Batman is the only hero who had it somewhat good for the first few seasons but then they stopped his story arc of receiving therapy to make a “billionaires don’t pay taxes“ joke and wrote him out of an entire season.
"But a joke doesn't work if you're the only one laughing" Funny Joker said something similar in the TNBA, "You always take shots at folks who just don't get the joke."
@@michaelthecinebro but he uses that line in TNBA to Harley in the episode, "Mad Love". It was the same episode where Harley's origin story was about how she met the Joker.
Ironically, the writers of Team Four Star (DBZA, Hellsing Ultimate Abridged) actually have said the opposite of a joke working if you’re laughing at it. The have, however, said something to the effect and continuance of that, “If you say someone will find that funny, you’re not guaranteeing anyone will find that funny, because you don’t find it funny.” Not arguing. Just providing a counterpoint with a reasonable caveat.
If they give Velma a third season but not give Young Justice a season five or hell, even develop an actually interesting original cartoon it is a crime against animation.
The only reason Velma got a season two was because HBO ordered twenty episodes and the crew split that into two seasons. I don't think after season one they would have willingly given it a season two
@@catastrophically.in.denial It has been two years. It would be nice to know for sure and not have Zaslov and WBD use the potential to artificially make it seem like there is more interest in their now incredibly limited cartoon line up than there actually is.
Part of me wants the show to continue so that we can learn even more from this disaster, but the rest of me wants it to end on the cliffhanger of Velma being dead because it’s funny. …and deserved.
Harley Quinn is a story about a hilariously batshit crazy person that managed to fit some feminist undertones into the narrative. Velma is Mindy Kaling's self-insertion fanfic trying to use the "feminist" and "meta" labels to hide the fact. She couldn't even be bothered to make sure her Scooby-Doo adaptation included the title character.
"It's Lady Gah-Gah!" "Oh my god its Bee-on-Say!!!" And "Its a cancer ray!" "Oh my god im so sorry! Why would anybody make this!" My favourite quotes from Harley Quinn 😂
The point of Velma isn't "the message", Velma doesn't actually have one. The point of Velma is to be purposefully offensive to everyone and I suppose it technically succeeds in that respect, but in the process it also creates a show nobody would want to watch.
South Park was purposefully offensive as well, yet did it in a way where people would still laugh. They were not afraid to make fun of every little thing, and made a show people could enjoy. Basically: South Park: Everyone is wrong and stupid! And I mean everyone! Audience: Ok Velma: The main character is always correct, with no flaws, and everyone else is wrong and doesn't deserve her. Audience: Wtf
@@The_Bionic_Bunny Tbh, it doesn't seem like Velma was AIMING to be like South Park or even Family Guy or any other edgy adult cartoon that prides itself on being offensive. Like if it did, it might even be funny even if we keep all the "fuck straight white males" shebang. You can make a joke with misandry the same way you can with misogyny, the trick is to not actually BELIEVE that shit.
was wondering when someone will finally comapre these two shows and your spot on. In case of Harley, you can tell the creators had some respect for the source material and show acknowledged that harley was not a good person with toxic traits.
but also Harley Quinn respects the source material, even when poking fun at it! It acknowledges these characters are flawed and weird and complicated but don't try to make you feel stupid for liking them or the show you're watching
Yeah thats why I had specified just season 1 of Harley Quinn. I'm binging the show and I haven't gotten there but I have heard mixed things unfortunately :(
@@michaelthecinebro well enjoy my friend, also you might have to watch the spin off called “Kite Man: Hell Yeah” in that case. (well when your done with the first show that is, plus it wouldn’t come out till July)
I love how Velma tried to be "woke","inclusive" and "funny", but accidentally ended up being far more racist, sexist, unfunny and offensive than the og show entirely. The og show was somehow far less racist, sexist and offensive despite the timeline of when it was made
Velma doesn't beat you over the head with feminism. It just beats you over the head with Mindy's personal power fantasy, that she pretends is feminist.
For my personal opinion, Harley Quinn works because it is not forcing "Feminism" to you, show itself write itself. Velma however, FORCE jokes. That is a key difference.
I’m a very firm believer that unless a character has a definitive reason for being the race that they are (ie: Black Panther being set in Africa, Avatar the last airbender taking direct inspiration from Asian and Indigenous culture, etc), then there’s not really a problem with making an initially white character a different race, so I don’t have nearly as much of a problem with the race swapping in Velma as a lot of other people do. My problem is literally everything else
Yeah, the only reason it's called feminism at all is because of mankind's long history of men being in control. That's what the manosphere doesn't get, but we don't have to prove them right by going too far the other way.
In that instance, if Mindy Kaling was smart enough, she would have told HBO, "Either you accept my idea as is or we don't do it at all. If you want Scooby-Doo, then get someone else to make it." If HBO rejected her pitch, Mindy should have just shopped around her idea to another studio like Paramount or Universal. Imagine if that hypothetical "Mindy" show had been better written and made a lot of money for whatever studio picked it up, the executives at HBO who rejected it would come under fire from their bosses for passing over a gold mine and greenlighting yet another Scooby Doo show instead.
When knowing that Scrappy-Doo is hated by some, but the show VELMA is hated through-and-though with the people that love the IP and general viewer, you know how bad the show is
Didn't the show also make a number of jokes about Batman as a character in the same vein of mocking how he became a vigilante, rather than going to therapy?
@@TheFuriousMulatto not really, the just had an episode about how f-ed-up Batmans mental state is all time. But even the Animated Batman series had like two dedicated episodes about how coping with his Trauma by being Batman instead of working on it, slowly eats away at Bruces' mental health.
I was terrified of Scooby Doo Zombie Island when I was little, watching through my fingertips. Looking at the different art/style of the characters in it compared to others brings back so many memories
what makes harley quinn even better are all the fan references in it too. like nightwing’s big ass and many more. it literally mocks it’s own characters and that it was makes it so good.
It's a bit sad that imo the writters of the Harley Quinn show lost the hand in the jokes and direction of the show after season 3, season 4 seems like a mess, the "woke" jokes were always present but were made in a clever and witty way so that they fitted and nobody complained, but in season 4 they are just thrown there out of nowhere, characters lost their character progresses, Harley became more stupid and the writting was so lost after realising they killed so many good villains that they didn't know which direction to follow, i dropped the show after some episodes, it was just not fun to watch anymore
@@michaelthecinebro yeah, i don't know if you intend to watch it but things became realy stale and nonsensical imo, then again i didn't fully watch it so i don't know if things get better
Funny thing, is they said that Scooby wasn't in the show because, and i quote, "Having a talking dog is what makes Scooby-Doo a show for kids." So I guess having Brian in Family Guy should make Family Guy for kids. Then they add Scrappy to the show, another talking dog! Which yeah, no one likes him, but that's the opposite of what they said about Scooby. I bet if they made new characters, and didn't try to tie the show to Scooby-Doo in any way, the show might be a little more likeable.
Also, I think someone can make their protagonist act like a jerk or a bad pearson. But like you said, the other characters were the ones like: "She's awesome" and she didn't learn anything, and the viewer can see that in the first episode when she starts like: "I'm Velma, and this is my story. The gang was MY idea, not Fred's, f*** Fred." So is like the future Velma is the same anoying girl that we saw at the begining. I think if the series waa going to start with her telling the story, it will better to her to say someting like: "This is the story of how everyting start, the mysteries, the gang, my friends. But, I have to say, I wasn't in my best actitude at that time, none of us, but... maybe is better if you see it by yourself" I don't know, I think it would gave some hope that the characters change for good.
you forgot to mention that harley quinn can better get away with the poor puns and awfull jokes since most of the characters are either clinicly insane, masive criminals or just have bad personalities, so we expect it from them. But velma is not, she basicly is a goofy, nerdy mysterie solver, so it does not fit with her whole stick.
The biggest difference between these two shows is that one is an adaptation with fairly good results, even if later seasons take a bit of a dip, and the other is a shameless self insert with no soul pretending to be an adaptation of a popular I.P, and the only good part is when the MC is killed off at the end. There's also no unnecessary race swapping in Harley Quinn. Sure, Catwoman looks more tan than most other versions, but at least she's still Catwoman, plus she was once played by the late Eartha Kitt in the Adam West days.
The mention of Lego Batman’s character arc is something they could have used for Velma’s arc. Her mom’s disappearance hits hard, she becomes a jerk to push everyone away because she’s afraid of losing anyone else. Norville sticks around despite the pushback cause he knows that’s what she’s doing to everyone. At some point she leads the gang to a major clue that puts them in a dangerous situation. Velma breaks down about pushing people away and now she might have gotten them all killed. The gang comfort her. Velma’s arc, the whole of season one could be Velma getting closure for her mom’s disappearance/death and being able to move on.
The irony of the Velma show is that Fred, the spoiled rich white guy, is the most likable character because everyone else is somehow even more detestable by comparison.
To be fair, I am not a fan of Scooby Doo. This animosity was caused by a network called TeleToon which played two pairs of the old show every day after two more shows so the whole thing was nothing but Scooby Doo. Even if Velma was a better show, the ultimate parody of Scooby Doo has already been done by the Venture Brothers.
I mean talking about drastic tone shifts in reboots of Hanna Barbera properties, this can work, the Flintstones comic series from a few years back was really good.
There are reasons I don't like either show. Velma I have an entire paragraph for. Harley Quinn show: 1. I don't like Harley Quinn as a character, just in general. 2. It disrespects my favorite DC characters I would still rather watch every episode of the Harley Quinn show than watch one season of Velma
Mindy's Velma isn't feminist, because Mindy at the very least thinks its okay to make up a story about kissing a co star non consensually and threatening show staff with termination if they tell anyone. Or, Mindy actually did do that, and felt so emboldened she admitted to it on a talk show and got an applause.
So, Velma is a Mary Sue. She is always capable and right with zero flaws (that the show acknowledges), has no redeeming qualities for the audience to connect to, and everyone eventually loves her in the story but for zero reason. On top of forcing viewpoints rather than showing them and comedy that isn't funny, no wonder the show is hated.
Sucks that the show has convinced people that Harley and Ivy are actually a healthy couple when even in universe they just bring out the worst in each other like Rick and Unity.
To be fair, is never been consistent and it depends on the writing and what its coming from. Most of the time its portrayed as good, even if this show for the sake of comedy its portrayed as tolerably dysfunctional.
@@GeteMachine yeah, I was talking about this show in particular but there are other versions that are just as dysfunctional. But there does exist a few where it is just a semi-normal relationship, as much as it can be given the people in it.
For me, these are the same shows. Does anyone want to talk about how Poison Ivy teaches Nightwing how not to panic, given that Nightwing is like a professional hero and was in danger more than she was? Does anyone want to talk about how all Batman's supervillains turned into idiotic henchmen, and even then the joker became stupid?
My only problem with The Harley Quinn Show is them taking away Poison Ivy's Jessica Rabbit-esque sex appeal to make her more "modern". But at least she is better than what the Velma cartoonists did to Daphne Blake.
Harley Quinn in the show is far different in mind than the character of the dc comics. In the comics she is an insane and purely evil woman. However, she’s still likable. In the show, she’s much less crazy/insane, still dangerous and less evil. While I don’t enjoy the whole thing at the end of season 4. It still feels like the same character even though her mental issues have been dulled down. Most likely to make her more relatable and highlight the misconceptions she’s had about herself instead of focusing on the truly evil aspects of the character. Velma… well… she was originally a smart yet shy and timid woman that gained confidence from her intelligence. She thrives on proving that she IS smart and CAPABLE. In the show, Velma just sort of calls everyone racist and sexist. She has no lack of confidence. She fully believes she it THE SHIT and calls anybody that doesn’t agree a bigot. That’s not Velma. Velma doesn’t call people a bigot because they disagree with her. Velma is kind, selfless, hardworking, and SMART, but she also is very hard on herself and makes sure she is useful at all times. She does crave approval but not in an extreme way. She knows that the members of Mystery Inc. are her friends, but also doesn’t want them to think less of her.
Im not even a DC fan but i enjoyed Harley Quinn. The queer representation between ivy and Harley later in the show is really fantastic. Their relationship isnt perfect, and at times it was toxic. But they worked through it, and had healthy conversations about it in the end. I really appreciate that.
You hit the nail on the head here, my friend. Harley Quinn is a great story, and even though I feel like the way it started was somewhat over the top, it quickly grabbed my attention. Even though I often prefer to see Batman succeed more, I both like and respect the character that Harley ultimately becomes. In addition, every time they introduce extended characters from the rest of the DC universe, they acknowledge who they are and pay respect to their legacy. Plus, I know that Joker in this show is supposed to be very unlikeable, but even though he's the antagonist, he’s still hilarious. Then I look at the Velma show; really, the only character they want to build up is her! The only way that the other characters can even succeed is to keep on giving in to her! It's indeed clear that this is someone's insane fantasy where they really only see their vision and no one else’s. Your rewrite script sounds like a solid idea even though it is still very different from the original Scooby-doo formula. At least that sounds like an adult show that I could enjoy! Oh man, thank you for sharing your thoughts and great work on this analysis! Let's hope that the HBO people will quickly realize that Harley needs more marketability and credit; then, shortly after, they grab Mindy and throw her in an insane asylum and find some people who would be interested in writing an actual good modern Scooby-doo show!
that rewrite for Velma would have been a good morden adaptation of a classic series origin it wouldn't be ground breaking amazing but it would be a nice alternative story for fans but we instead got.... that
I don’t much like either, reeeeeal burned out on harly as a character and the vibe of her show, but at least her show has moments that make me chuckle and smile where as between Velma and pressing a button that electrocuted me, I’d press the button for a few hours as it’s more entertaining
Velma is just clickbait, it's not a Scooby Doo show, it's very much a separate thing, they just use the Scooby Doo franchise to get more people to watch it.
Harley Quinn really fell off in the fourth season. It essentially did become the heavy handed feminist fantasy that it mocked in season 2. I’m holding out hope it can bounce back.
ok finished the video and I liked it👍👍💕💕 and holy s*** I did not know Harley Quinn get greenlit for season 5, I have finished all of season 1, 2, and 3 so I'm excited
Can i just talk about how velma could of been a feminist show in a farrrr better way. They could of commented on the competitive nature of women and “looks” with her and daphne, could of had velma be put down by other people and made to be called “stupid” but disproved them. Or have daphne use her self defence like she had in the movie?
10:06 - 10:13 You know it’s stuff like this that makes a REALLY strong case for this version of Velma being nothing more than a mouthpiece for her voice actress.
The difference between Velma and Harley Quinn is that Harley is crass funny and keeps the characters the same way we know them to be for the most part while Velma has nothing in common with the original and is just a terrible show that was not well done that only had several characters with the names of classic characters we know Nd love.
Side note for "Velma": If they wanted to diversify the Scooby gang, making Shaggy Arabic and Fred Puerto Rican would've been cool nods to Casey Kasem and Freddie Prinze Jr. As for Harley, I'd love for a future adaptation to show off her psych skills rather than relying on her being the crazy girl, similar to how "White Knight" did Harleen.
It’s funny how Harley is an actual criminally insane person and a pretty bad person yet she’s a lot more likeable than velma
The irony right?? 😂
Mindy Kaling should really take notes.
Nah, both Harely Quinn and Velma sucked. She deluded herself and completely rewrote her entire origin just so she wouldn't feel bad about the Joker tricking. Injustice Harely is a true "feminist" icon. She aknowleged that she's done bad things when she fell for the wrong guy and wants to seek redemption in spite of it@michaelthecinefile
GREAT VIDEO HARLEY QUINN VS VELMA SERIES FEMINIST SHOWS.
Yeah, but harley is a much better and saner than velma
Harley knows she's bad and doesn't care if you think so, Velma is bad, but tells you to shut up about it.
Harley a bad b*tch
Velma violently beats you over the head with its feminism. In fact that show violently beats you over the head with everything it does. The writers of Harley Quinn are aware that a show needs to be subtle (not to mention good) and support the main character with likable side characters, clever writing, and actual development for Harley Quinn. This in my opinion is why the show works much better. It uses its adult rating to its advantage rather than using it to perpetuate cheap middle school esque humor.
It doesn’t help that Velma (the character herself) is very hypocritical and particular about feminism. She seems to think that all women need to conform to her specific view of feminism otherwise they’re weak and inferior, instead of understanding and letting them express what feminism means to them. Plus, she sets a needlessly high standard on everyone around her, that nobody but herself can meet. So she puts herself on a pedestal, but the show never acknowledges this as a flaw she needs to overcome and makes her seem like she’s in the right
Bane is the best side character lol.
It's honestly not even feminism. It's what they *claim* it is. Yet, both shows *prevents* female characters from doing anything that isn't status quo. Then pat themselves on the back.
fr and in the velma show, they changed the characters designs not for the sake of the actual character but for diversity points and to make stereotypical jokes. Nothing is wrong with the race of the characters, but the fact that they changed already designed characters to a different race just is lazy character design imo they shouldnt ever do these things if they actually cared for the character
@@rei4172 I'm saying this as someone that hates Velma, I don't really think the show is that bad when it comes to character design and animation, like all of them have really distinct silhouettes and you can tell exactly the kind of personality the character is going to have immediately
Harley and Lego Batman does the one thing Velma doesnt: RESPECT THE SOURCE MATERIAL
People wouldn't have hated the race swapping if the writers respected Scooby Doo just as much as the DC writers did for Harley and Lego Batman.
That and at least don’t look for an excuse to keep Fred white, if done well, i can over look race swapping if the actor actually comes off as their character.
@@tgiacin435 Nobody would have cared about Indian Velma and Asian Daphne if they still acted like their classic selves. The main reason why the Harley Quinn show works is because her comics are basically already this.
@@nosfonader8792 exactly. But no, Mindy had to be racist to everyone with this cartoon
@@R.P.McMurphyI guess not. I feel like the writers on Harley Quinn at least respected DC comics.
@@R.P.McMurphy As far as a comedy show, yeah they pretty respectful for the most part. There some lazy joke, but Bruce Wayne getting arrested for tax evasion will never not be funny and at least more original joke than Bruce Wayne should just give everybody money, which they also unfortunately did.
Velma is a good example of how not to do self inserts...or comedy...or characters...or stories...you know what; velma is just a bad example of everything. If anyone is planning on writing anything, they should watch velma for notes on what to NOT to do
I think the animation is good
@@dragonprofessorx1774Yeah that's the only thing going for it
@Overwatch2010 it really is a shame that the artists' talents were wasted on such a horrible show
Yes the only positive is the animation. Everything else though is 😶
@@dragonprofessorx1774 Yeah
I’ll admit I’m not the biggest fan of the Harley Quinn animated series, especially some of the more recent season, but even I can appreciate that. It had a level of respect for the source material that Velma clearly does not.
Yeah. I think ultimately thats what fans of most franchises want at the end of the day
Except for nightwing they did him dirty.
@@comicfan1324 yeah it was all spite.
@@malikpierre-louis3343 Don't forget Mr. Freeze.
@@malikpierre-louis3343
Yeah, a lot of the superheroes get done dirty. Nightwing in particular, they humiliated and objectified Dick Grayson to hell and back (literally) but he’s not the only one.
They took superman who is supposed to be the super compassionate guy and had him say “let’s just kick them into the Phantom zone to suffer forever just because we think they might be responsible for this crime even though we have no evidence“.
Batman is the only hero who had it somewhat good for the first few seasons but then they stopped his story arc of receiving therapy to make a “billionaires don’t pay taxes“ joke and wrote him out of an entire season.
"But a joke doesn't work if you're the only one laughing"
Funny Joker said something similar in the TNBA, "You always take shots at folks who just don't get the joke."
Its actually a line he says from a comic revoling around the character Penguin. Super intresting character read.
@@michaelthecinebro but he uses that line in TNBA to Harley in the episode, "Mad Love". It was the same episode where Harley's origin story was about how she met the Joker.
Ironically, the writers of Team Four Star (DBZA, Hellsing Ultimate Abridged) actually have said the opposite of a joke working if you’re laughing at it. The have, however, said something to the effect and continuance of that, “If you say someone will find that funny, you’re not guaranteeing anyone will find that funny, because you don’t find it funny.” Not arguing. Just providing a counterpoint with a reasonable caveat.
If they give Velma a third season but not give Young Justice a season five or hell, even develop an actually interesting original cartoon it is a crime against animation.
The only reason Velma got a season two was because HBO ordered twenty episodes and the crew split that into two seasons. I don't think after season one they would have willingly given it a season two
AAA fr, but Young Justice has always paused for years between seasons
@@catastrophically.in.denial It has been two years. It would be nice to know for sure and not have Zaslov and WBD use the potential to artificially make it seem like there is more interest in their now incredibly limited cartoon line up than there actually is.
Part of me wants the show to continue so that we can learn even more from this disaster, but the rest of me wants it to end on the cliffhanger of Velma being dead because it’s funny.
…and deserved.
@@cosmicspacething3474 Definitely there lol
Harley Quinn is a story about a hilariously batshit crazy person that managed to fit some feminist undertones into the narrative.
Velma is Mindy Kaling's self-insertion fanfic trying to use the "feminist" and "meta" labels to hide the fact.
She couldn't even be bothered to make sure her Scooby-Doo adaptation included the title character.
I feel like a lot of the stuff she works on is self-insert stuff tbh
"It's Lady Gah-Gah!"
"Oh my god its Bee-on-Say!!!"
And
"Its a cancer ray!"
"Oh my god im so sorry! Why would anybody make this!"
My favourite quotes from Harley Quinn 😂
Don't forget "YOU ARE A LYING LIAR"
- Bane
The point of Velma isn't "the message", Velma doesn't actually have one. The point of Velma is to be purposefully offensive to everyone and I suppose it technically succeeds in that respect, but in the process it also creates a show nobody would want to watch.
South Park was purposefully offensive as well, yet did it in a way where people would still laugh. They were not afraid to make fun of every little thing, and made a show people could enjoy.
Basically:
South Park: Everyone is wrong and stupid! And I mean everyone!
Audience: Ok
Velma: The main character is always correct, with no flaws, and everyone else is wrong and doesn't deserve her.
Audience: Wtf
@@The_Bionic_Bunny Tbh, it doesn't seem like Velma was AIMING to be like South Park or even Family Guy or any other edgy adult cartoon that prides itself on being offensive.
Like if it did, it might even be funny even if we keep all the "fuck straight white males" shebang. You can make a joke with misandry the same way you can with misogyny, the trick is to not actually BELIEVE that shit.
was wondering when someone will finally comapre these two shows and your spot on.
In case of Harley, you can tell the creators had some respect for the source material and show acknowledged that harley was not a good person with toxic traits.
but also Harley Quinn respects the source material, even when poking fun at it! It acknowledges these characters are flawed and weird and complicated but don't try to make you feel stupid for liking them or the show you're watching
11:43 That Velma rewrite was genuinely better than most recent shows. Props and hopes for your popularity explosion.
Thank you so much!
I agree, if they just did a similar thing for Velma then I bet it would have succeeded. I mean I know that I would watch it.
@@michaelthecinebrono but the not shaggy is reminding me of #notmyrodrick 😭
Omg , I love the “just in case you don’t know for some reason” thing about the character arc had me dying laughing 💀
Let’s be real here anything is better than Velma, even season four of Harley Quinn (well some parts of it and I’m being nice about it).
Yeah thats why I had specified just season 1 of Harley Quinn. I'm binging the show and I haven't gotten there but I have heard mixed things unfortunately :(
@@michaelthecinebro well enjoy my friend, also you might have to watch the spin off called “Kite Man: Hell Yeah” in that case. (well when your done with the first show that is, plus it wouldn’t come out till July)
@michaelthecinefile I thought it was super boring ngl
That exists?!?!?! @@captaincritter6173
Freaking Twilight is now better than Velma.
I love how Velma tried to be "woke","inclusive" and "funny", but accidentally ended up being far more racist, sexist, unfunny and offensive than the og show entirely. The og show was somehow far less racist, sexist and offensive despite the timeline of when it was made
Velma doesn't beat you over the head with feminism. It just beats you over the head with Mindy's personal power fantasy, that she pretends is feminist.
@@IndigoButterfly you are so right
I fucking love that Harley Quinn show (even seasons 3 and 4) so I’m happy to see it appreciated
Honestly, I’m really sad that we didn’t get that rewrite. I probably would’ve loved it if it was a real show.
For my personal opinion, Harley Quinn works because it is not forcing "Feminism" to you, show itself write itself. Velma however, FORCE jokes. That is a key difference.
I don't like Velma but why the he'll did you put feminism in quotes
@@paytonrstanglewicz610 I don't even know why I put quotes on that, maybe I just don't see Harley Quinn feminist show at all.
@@paytonrstanglewicz610 It is really hard to explain, it IS, but same time it is not.
I’m a very firm believer that unless a character has a definitive reason for being the race that they are (ie: Black Panther being set in Africa, Avatar the last airbender taking direct inspiration from Asian and Indigenous culture, etc), then there’s not really a problem with making an initially white character a different race, so I don’t have nearly as much of a problem with the race swapping in Velma as a lot of other people do. My problem is literally everything else
Feminism was never meant to be about women being better than men. Feminism is about both being equal.
Yeah, the only reason it's called feminism at all is because of mankind's long history of men being in control.
That's what the manosphere doesn't get, but we don't have to prove them right by going too far the other way.
True, bur lets be fr there is nothing feminist about Velma
If someone wanted to make a mature version of Scooby Doo cartoon they could have adapted the Scooby Doo Apocalypse comic.
I'm still convinced that Mindy wanted to make her own show, and HBO was like, "Nah fam, you making scooby doo"
In that instance, if Mindy Kaling was smart enough, she would have told HBO, "Either you accept my idea as is or we don't do it at all. If you want Scooby-Doo, then get someone else to make it." If HBO rejected her pitch, Mindy should have just shopped around her idea to another studio like Paramount or Universal.
Imagine if that hypothetical "Mindy" show had been better written and made a lot of money for whatever studio picked it up, the executives at HBO who rejected it would come under fire from their bosses for passing over a gold mine and greenlighting yet another Scooby Doo show instead.
When knowing that Scrappy-Doo is hated by some, but the show VELMA is hated through-and-though with the people that love the IP and general viewer, you know how bad the show is
IP? I cant think other than IP address
@@ferwend719Original show
It’s Harley Quinn so that’s already a W
*BASED*
To be honest i didnt like the harley queen series either but if i had to choose i would choose the series over velma 1000th times in a row
it's like every video he makes is for me, these videos are legitimately perfect
Thank you! I'll try and keep it up
I love his rewrite better :)
Thank you! I kind of want to do more in depth rewrites for shows or movies eventually
If we got him to make Velma, we would've had a better Velma
I wouldn't say Harley Quinn "works" so much as it doesn't deliberately shit on its audience QUITE as much as Velma did.
Didn't the show also make a number of jokes about Batman as a character in the same vein of mocking how he became a vigilante, rather than going to therapy?
@@TheFuriousMulatto not really, the just had an episode about how f-ed-up Batmans mental state is all time.
But even the Animated Batman series had like two dedicated episodes about how coping with his Trauma by being Batman instead of working on it, slowly eats away at Bruces' mental health.
I was terrified of Scooby Doo Zombie Island when I was little, watching through my fingertips. Looking at the different art/style of the characters in it compared to others brings back so many memories
what makes harley quinn even better are all the fan references in it too. like nightwing’s big ass and many more. it literally mocks it’s own characters and that it was makes it so good.
funny how a show with a main female protagonist is automatically called a feminist show when thats not what feminism is even about 😂
It's a bit sad that imo the writters of the Harley Quinn show lost the hand in the jokes and direction of the show after season 3, season 4 seems like a mess, the "woke" jokes were always present but were made in a clever and witty way so that they fitted and nobody complained, but in season 4 they are just thrown there out of nowhere, characters lost their character progresses, Harley became more stupid and the writting was so lost after realising they killed so many good villains that they didn't know which direction to follow, i dropped the show after some episodes, it was just not fun to watch anymore
Dang. Thats unfortunate 😕
@@michaelthecinebro yeah, i don't know if you intend to watch it but things became realy stale and nonsensical imo, then again i didn't fully watch it so i don't know if things get better
Funny thing, is they said that Scooby wasn't in the show because, and i quote, "Having a talking dog is what makes Scooby-Doo a show for kids." So I guess having Brian in Family Guy should make Family Guy for kids. Then they add Scrappy to the show, another talking dog! Which yeah, no one likes him, but that's the opposite of what they said about Scooby. I bet if they made new characters, and didn't try to tie the show to Scooby-Doo in any way, the show might be a little more likeable.
Also, I think someone can make their protagonist act like a jerk or a bad pearson. But like you said, the other characters were the ones like: "She's awesome" and she didn't learn anything, and the viewer can see that in the first episode when she starts like:
"I'm Velma, and this is my story. The gang was MY idea, not Fred's, f*** Fred."
So is like the future Velma is the same anoying girl that we saw at the begining. I think if the series waa going to start with her telling the story, it will better to her to say someting like:
"This is the story of how everyting start, the mysteries, the gang, my friends. But, I have to say, I wasn't in my best actitude at that time, none of us, but... maybe is better if you see it by yourself"
I don't know, I think it would gave some hope that the characters change for good.
Fr. Little changes can make such a difference
Funny enough, Harley Quinn was a major influence for the show Velma.
you forgot to mention that harley quinn can better get away with the poor puns and awfull jokes since most of the characters are either clinicly insane, masive criminals or just have bad personalities, so we expect it from them. But velma is not, she basicly is a goofy, nerdy mysterie solver, so it does not fit with her whole stick.
The biggest difference between these two shows is that one is an adaptation with fairly good results, even if later seasons take a bit of a dip, and the other is a shameless self insert with no soul pretending to be an adaptation of a popular I.P, and the only good part is when the MC is killed off at the end. There's also no unnecessary race swapping in Harley Quinn. Sure, Catwoman looks more tan than most other versions, but at least she's still Catwoman, plus she was once played by the late Eartha Kitt in the Adam West days.
The mention of Lego Batman’s character arc is something they could have used for Velma’s arc.
Her mom’s disappearance hits hard, she becomes a jerk to push everyone away because she’s afraid of losing anyone else. Norville sticks around despite the pushback cause he knows that’s what she’s doing to everyone. At some point she leads the gang to a major clue that puts them in a dangerous situation. Velma breaks down about pushing people away and now she might have gotten them all killed. The gang comfort her.
Velma’s arc, the whole of season one could be Velma getting closure for her mom’s disappearance/death and being able to move on.
The irony of the Velma show is that Fred, the spoiled rich white guy, is the most likable character because everyone else is somehow even more detestable by comparison.
To be fair, I am not a fan of Scooby Doo. This animosity was caused by a network called TeleToon which played two pairs of the old show every day after two more shows so the whole thing was nothing but Scooby Doo.
Even if Velma was a better show, the ultimate parody of Scooby Doo has already been done by the Venture Brothers.
And the more serious tone for a Scooby Doo show has already been done by Mystery Incorporated(very much superior in every way).
I completely agree with the last line as everyone always talks about how “any publicity is good publicity” But to what extent ?
Gotta love calling him "Not Shaggy" and one of the first things with the rewrite just being... calling him Shaggy-
Underrated video. 47 likes? 14 comments?
Hopefully it gets more 😅
I hope it does, It deserves more!
Ima start calling them remarks instead of jokes too bc they are not funny 😒
The end of the video was so a perfect example and a listen.
Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated has to be one of my all time favorite shows.
I mean talking about drastic tone shifts in reboots of Hanna Barbera properties, this can work, the Flintstones comic series from a few years back was really good.
…That rewrite sounds super.
There are reasons I don't like either show.
Velma I have an entire paragraph for.
Harley Quinn show:
1. I don't like Harley Quinn as a character, just in general.
2. It disrespects my favorite DC characters
I would still rather watch every episode of the Harley Quinn show than watch one season of Velma
I hear there's already a new Scooby series. This franchise is restless.
Great video man. Surprised u don’t have more subs, they’ll be rolling in soon for sure
I love your rewrite, I like how you took what was already in the show and made them work.
The rewrite is actually so much better
Mindy's Velma isn't feminist, because Mindy at the very least thinks its okay to make up a story about kissing a co star non consensually and threatening show staff with termination if they tell anyone.
Or, Mindy actually did do that, and felt so emboldened she admitted to it on a talk show and got an applause.
While Harley Quinn demasculized the Bat Family it was at least funny. And usually subtle.
Velma was neither.
Harley Quinn Wins In So Many Ways!!!
"Just pretend it's Velma" got me
Harley Quinn does take some inspiration from the Venture Brothers for its style of humor and it works. Velma is just tone deaf.
So, Velma is a Mary Sue. She is always capable and right with zero flaws (that the show acknowledges), has no redeeming qualities for the audience to connect to, and everyone eventually loves her in the story but for zero reason. On top of forcing viewpoints rather than showing them and comedy that isn't funny, no wonder the show is hated.
We got one good thing out of it, a completely inappropriate Meatcanyon short
Sucks that the show has convinced people that Harley and Ivy are actually a healthy couple when even in universe they just bring out the worst in each other like Rick and Unity.
To be fair, is never been consistent and it depends on the writing and what its coming from. Most of the time its portrayed as good, even if this show for the sake of comedy its portrayed as tolerably dysfunctional.
@@GeteMachine yeah, I was talking about this show in particular but there are other versions that are just as dysfunctional. But there does exist a few where it is just a semi-normal relationship, as much as it can be given the people in it.
For me, these are the same shows.
Does anyone want to talk about how Poison Ivy teaches Nightwing how not to panic, given that Nightwing is like a professional hero and was in danger more than she was?
Does anyone want to talk about how all Batman's supervillains turned into idiotic henchmen, and even then the joker became stupid?
I think this show has something to learn from for people who want to make a show can learn from.
Bro should've been hired for writing Velma
My only problem with The Harley Quinn Show is them taking away Poison Ivy's Jessica Rabbit-esque sex appeal to make her more "modern".
But at least she is better than what the Velma cartoonists did to Daphne Blake.
Awesome takes as always. 🔥
Harley Quinn in the show is far different in mind than the character of the dc comics. In the comics she is an insane and purely evil woman. However, she’s still likable. In the show, she’s much less crazy/insane, still dangerous and less evil. While I don’t enjoy the whole thing at the end of season 4. It still feels like the same character even though her mental issues have been dulled down. Most likely to make her more relatable and highlight the misconceptions she’s had about herself instead of focusing on the truly evil aspects of the character. Velma… well… she was originally a smart yet shy and timid woman that gained confidence from her intelligence. She thrives on proving that she IS smart and CAPABLE. In the show, Velma just sort of calls everyone racist and sexist. She has no lack of confidence. She fully believes she it THE SHIT and calls anybody that doesn’t agree a bigot. That’s not Velma. Velma doesn’t call people a bigot because they disagree with her. Velma is kind, selfless, hardworking, and SMART, but she also is very hard on herself and makes sure she is useful at all times. She does crave approval but not in an extreme way. She knows that the members of Mystery Inc. are her friends, but also doesn’t want them to think less of her.
I don’t care about Scooby Doo, but they screwed Fred over so hard. Despite that he still ended up somehow being the most likable character?
I just wanna say that hating and putting down men is not feministic it’s sexist.
Im not even a DC fan but i enjoyed Harley Quinn. The queer representation between ivy and Harley later in the show is really fantastic. Their relationship isnt perfect, and at times it was toxic. But they worked through it, and had healthy conversations about it in the end. I really appreciate that.
velma isn't even a feminist show. It's purposefully made in a way that everyone will hatewatch it
I personally wasn't a fan of the Harley Quinn show. Idk what it is but something about it was just bad to me.
You hit the nail on the head here, my friend. Harley Quinn is a great story, and even though I feel like the way it started was somewhat over the top, it quickly grabbed my attention. Even though I often prefer to see Batman succeed more, I both like and respect the character that Harley ultimately becomes. In addition, every time they introduce extended characters from the rest of the DC universe, they acknowledge who they are and pay respect to their legacy. Plus, I know that Joker in this show is supposed to be very unlikeable, but even though he's the antagonist, he’s still hilarious. Then I look at the Velma show; really, the only character they want to build up is her! The only way that the other characters can even succeed is to keep on giving in to her! It's indeed clear that this is someone's insane fantasy where they really only see their vision and no one else’s. Your rewrite script sounds like a solid idea even though it is still very different from the original Scooby-doo formula. At least that sounds like an adult show that I could enjoy! Oh man, thank you for sharing your thoughts and great work on this analysis! Let's hope that the HBO people will quickly realize that Harley needs more marketability and credit; then, shortly after, they grab Mindy and throw her in an insane asylum and find some people who would be interested in writing an actual good modern Scooby-doo show!
that rewrite for Velma would have been a good morden adaptation of a classic series origin it wouldn't be ground breaking amazing but it would be a nice alternative story for fans but we instead got.... that
*Harley Quinn Series respected the source material. That's why it is better than Velma.*
HQ kinda killed itself after Seasons 3 and 4. I fear for 5...
I wouldn’t say Harley Quinn works. Ivy’s character was butchered and the Joker is so out of character he shouldn’t even be called the Joker
I don’t much like either, reeeeeal burned out on harly as a character and the vibe of her show, but at least her show has moments that make me chuckle and smile where as between Velma and pressing a button that electrocuted me, I’d press the button for a few hours as it’s more entertaining
The cancer ray💀💀💀💀💀
Love Harley and can’t wait for the next season and spinoff.
I’ve been thinking about this compression for a long time
Velma is just clickbait, it's not a Scooby Doo show, it's very much a separate thing, they just use the Scooby Doo franchise to get more people to watch it.
They should had you in the writers room dude
One understands the source material, the other doesn't even care.
Harley Quinn really fell off in the fourth season. It essentially did become the heavy handed feminist fantasy that it mocked in season 2. I’m holding out hope it can bounce back.
5:43's typo made my day and I just rewatched Lego Batman 😂
dang it, I'd forgotten about gooning, and then you talked about Harley recruiting goons
ok finished the video and I liked it👍👍💕💕 and holy s*** I did not know Harley Quinn get greenlit for season 5, I have finished all of season 1, 2, and 3 so I'm excited
I love the rewrite. It hits what should have been the point.
Wait so the rewrite is helluva boss?
Can i just talk about how velma could of been a feminist show in a farrrr better way. They could of commented on the competitive nature of women and “looks” with her and daphne, could of had velma be put down by other people and made to be called “stupid” but disproved them. Or have daphne use her self defence like she had in the movie?
10:06 - 10:13
You know it’s stuff like this that makes a REALLY strong case for this version of Velma being nothing more than a mouthpiece for her voice actress.
Velma is soo irritating 🤬 why did mindy kaling made a disappointment of a show🤬😡😠
Five words about the Harley Quinn show: It respects the source material.
The difference between Velma and Harley Quinn is that Harley is crass funny and keeps the characters the same way we know them to be for the most part while Velma has nothing in common with the original and is just a terrible show that was not well done that only had several characters with the names of classic characters we know Nd love.
Side note for "Velma": If they wanted to diversify the Scooby gang, making Shaggy Arabic and Fred Puerto Rican would've been cool nods to Casey Kasem and Freddie Prinze Jr.
As for Harley, I'd love for a future adaptation to show off her psych skills rather than relying on her being the crazy girl, similar to how "White Knight" did Harleen.
I hate the Harley show as well, but I do think it’s better than Velma
This is exactly the comparison I made when Velma came out