UPDATE: Late last evening I went and popped the back panel off the Renogy solar panel to verify if the wire truly was Tinned copper and it was!! Like so many had mentioned. I updated the description and may show a short video for those interested. Sorry for the quick over look. Updated 6 month and 1 year will come later.
What would you expect to survive a emp since no one has seen it happen in real life? And these would take a second to fix. A all it would do is pop a diode, maybe. Boom good to go again.
@@johnnysweekends wow, youtube blocked their own video demonstrating how to EMP test your equipment and ensure your system is hardened against lightening strikes ? Sad to see the truth blocked by communists.
I have settings in my account that blocks links on purpose. I had to do this after my account grew and spam was starting to show up everywhere. So unfortunately it blocks other people sharing links as well.
I could not agree more! I get so frustrated with videos such as these where people will sit there and babble for 2 or 3 minutes about nothing that has anything to do with the subject at hand. This is very refreshing.
Diodes, soldered in with straight leads, will experience mechanical stress between the diode chip and the attached leads, as they expand and contract with heat and cool cycles. If you have a diode failure and have to replace them, put a bit of an S bend in each lead, before you solder it in, to give the leads some springiness.
The heating caused by the current inside the diode itself is far more mechanically significant than external heating of the external leads. If there is a problem it will show up due to internal heating of the chip itself well before any problem shows up due to heating of the external leads. However... Once you're INSIDE the diode package, any difference in the thermally caused mechanical stress due to heating effects on the EXTERNAL portion of the leads is virtually eliminated by the epoxy/ lead bonding...so the "S" shape outside the package doesn't help at the chip/lead interface (and the "lead" interface doesn't actually directly connect with the chip in a way that this aspect would change anyway). However, the "S" shape in an external lead CAN help reduce thermally caused mechanical stress at the external lead/connectors whether crimped or soldered. However the lead alloy, shape of the "S", and the diameter and length of the leads would also change the forces due to the change in the increase in length as the lead heats up...so there can be a point of diminishing returns.
@@exgenica Perhaps you have more faith in the rigidity and strength of the epoxy package than I have. But if the leads are soldered between two points, in a straight line, and the distance between those two points changes from diode or external temperature changes, the leads can produce large forces on the die bonds. I have attempted to reduce these forces with lead bends and also soldering a pair of brass strips across the leads, close to the package, and fanned them out, as a heat sink, to reduce the temperature swings generated by the diode chip, itself. I worked in industrial electronics, for a long time, and saw many diode failures. I didn't have a semiconductor lab, to perform proper autopsies. But some doable things seemed to help.
@tallwill38 In old tube amplifiers, the tie point strips and tube sockets were made with purposefully flexible, sheet metal terminals, that would flex, and take the strain off the component leads soldered, at right angles to them. The terminals the diode leads are soldered to, in these junction boxes, look pretty stiff, by comparison. And the plastic boxes those terminals are mounted on, change size, quite a bit, between sitting in the sun on the hottest day, and the middle of the coldest night of the year.
I usually do not solder straight leads, I bend them into a bent L and solder the end of the L. having the lead after the bend long enough usually will serve the same purpose as the S bend.
Your reading way to much into this! The reason NASA specs the "s" bend is because their stuff is launched in a very temperate environment, but then goes to space. It's VERY cold up there! Yet, the device has to work in both environments. The small changes from day to night at your location will not make much of a difference! Your NOT sending something into space folks!
I tried to make the test as equal as possible and even when I have been messing with them the HF are still putting out better numbers. Not that Renogy doesn’t have good stuff but interesting to see the different results.
@@pierremitham2964 I certainly agree half-cut cells allow for slightly higher watts per sq meter, but we're talking about the same wattage rating on the panels, not discussing their size. On the other hand, I looked up the harbor freight panel and it's 986 sq in and the Renogy is 866 sq in. So the Renogy is less surface area with a less efficient design, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the Harbor Freight puts out more actual wattage.
I've had four Renogy 100 watt panels on my 5th wheel roof for 8 years now. Absolutely no problems or issues, including being in two hail storms and traveling over 50k miles. They are great!
@@MarkusAnthony88 Knowing every single harbour freight product - They would have been destroyed by rain drops - let alone hail. I would like to see an impact test done on these panels
I purchased 6 harbor freight panels when they had them on sale for only $89 each. Changed all the connectors to MC4. I like the aspect size of the harbor freight. It seems easier to orient on a ground mount. I also like that the Harbor Freight panels have the plastic protectors on the corners.
I did the same, 6 panels at $89.99. I think they work very well for the price. Here in Michigan, I typically get about 110 watts per panel on average. I only lose performance on the very hot days. Usually about a 10-20 watt loss. I've had my panels peak at 7.25 amp on a cool sunny day. I would like to get 2 more, but it's disappointing that the price went up.
I Have 21 100 watt Harbor Freight Panels on sale for $89 on sale n Been Off Grid for a 1year running All of my 30 amp 40ft Park Model Camper Shallow Well Water Pump n My DJ Equipment to for my cookouts n 6000 btu Ac n my Fridge n outside freezer TVs surround sound system n my wife's blow dryers n all my appliances with only 8 101 amp hour a total of 808Amp hours of EverStart Deep Cycle Batteries from Wall Mart at about $109.00 each .
I worked for a manufacturer working on high-end prototypes, and a deviation I had to do often was swapping for a more robust connector between the solar panels and the rest of the wiring. It was common for the connectors to be the highest resistance point, thus creating extra heat, and melting the connectors, then eventually shorting and causing further, obvious issues. The fix was adding a much larger connector with larger terminals. The initial engineers expected the original connector to be sufficient, but turned out not to be in real life. Something to think about when swapping connectors. I've always been on the side of don't replace, upgrade, for things like this. Great video!
Thank you. And yes the SAE to mc4 would be a upgrade as they can handle much larger amounts of volts/current going through it. 👍🏼 Thanks for stopping by 👍🏼😀
I bought 8 HF 100 watt panels and installed them on top of my south facing patio cover (4 x 6 inch timbers). I have two arrays of 4 panels each in series giving me 80 volts. These two branches are in parallel. These charge my EcoFlow Delta Max which I use to power my entire house. I am getting 760 watts out of this array starting at 1115 until 1600 or so in San Diego. This is enough to recharge my EcoFlow Delta to 100% in 6 hours. I am experimenting going off grid every other day. So far so good since setting this up in May of this year. I kept the SAE connectors but I removed the aluminum stand arms. Using 2 x 2 alum angle for stationary mount. Very pleased with those HF panels especially when they go on sale.
@Danang Alta yes. I leave the solar line connected full time to.keep it topped off. Using the phone app let's you monitor inputs, outputs. State of charge in real time. I'm really impressed with ecoflow. I run the washer dryer (gas) off it via an extension cord.
Question about powering your entire house. Do you have multiple fridge/freezers, central AC, furnace, water heater, electric stove, clothes washer and dryer, and other electronics? I'm wondering how many panels would it take for all of that?
Being we install solar, its not just solar but a battery back up is what’s going to run all that unless you want run a off grid system or hybrid types DIY and more. My house is pretty simple,1800+SQ with a 5.4kw solar system. I run pretty much net 0 out of pocket each year. Tried to go larger but city would not let me. I do not have a back up system but plenty of options for when the occasion comes for power. Typical system payback like this about 4.5-5.5 years. Most are about that. 5-7 year pay off. When the power goes out your solar panels are tied to the grid,so they no longer provide power to the grid spinning your meter back ward so to say. The panels are still making power but no where to go. Hence a battery back up system that works with the solar so if power is out and sun is shinning you are good. As it drains in the night the next day it charges back up again. No you still want to conserve. You can’t burn 200 gallons of fuel if the sun will only bring in 150 gallons if that makes sense. Many ways to go for back up power. DIY builds or buy a small power station or a gas generator.
@@gingerkittiesfour I have eight 100W Harbor Freight panels facing south in a 4P-2S config. Ecoflow limits solar input to NMT 800W. Later I put up another eight panels same config facing east paralleled into the south array. So as soon as the sun comes up the ecoflow comes alive and starts charging. So 800W early morning and at noon 800W as the sun travels to the west.
Great review. I bought 6 - 100 watt harbor freight panels when they were on sale for $99. Also bought a Bluetti AC200 max and 4 370 watt Santan Solar panels. Ready for power down and retreat living off grid.
So what I'd like to know is is it simple to plug a solar panel into a solar charger and then have a 110 Electric plug-in readily available or do you have to have some technical knowledge about how to connect the solar panel to the charger
@@KC-dr3cg Yes and no. Totally depends on you and what you buy. it is super easy to connect a solar panel to a "solar charger" if both the panel and charger were made by the same company, such as Jackery or Bluetti. To connect a Renogy or Harbor Freight panel to one of those solar chargers may be a bit more difficult, if you have no knowledge of electricity or solar type connectors. Companies that make both solar panels and solar power supplies, make them as true plug and play units, and often have bundle deals. Both companies also make their solar power supplies with built in, 110 electric plug-in, 12 volt, and USB outlets. I own both Jackery and Bluetti, but prefer the Bluetti, as it has a bit better battery chemistry, which makes it faster to recharge, depending on the number of solar panels you get. Side note: Off brand solar panels will often have a selection of different connectors that make them compatible with most popular brands of solar chargers.
Aluminum? Pretty sure that is tinned copper. Not aluminum. PV wire has a lot of strands and feels like aluminum, but it's just how tinned copper with lots of strands feels like. Good video!!
Will you are correct!! I actually popped the cover plate again last night and checked the wire and you can see the tin coating upon inspection. I’ll be updating the description and maybe make a UA-cam short just to update everyone. Thank you so much for the comment and love your videos ..!!!! 👊🏼👍🏼 Stay cool!! Cooking up here in Far NorCal!
Hey no one if perfect, I mess up lots of stuff, well I try not to but how ya learn. 🤷♂️😅 Redding, CA. Where all the fires 🔥 are 🤦🏼♂️ lol. But did you know it’s the second sunniest city in the nation… ??? Crazy right !
We use these 100w HF panels in many places all over the farm. Never had one fail, and most have been up at least ten years. But their $30 charge controller circuit boards tend to corrode rather easily.
Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Yea the controllers I normally tell people to by pass and get something else. Unless running a real simple set up then sure it will probably do the job.
Helpful tip, treat the controller with Corrosion X and hot glue desiccant packs inside. we use these for keeping our coop cooling fans going and after these small additions we have had no problems! 👍
Cleaner connections, Copper wire, higher amp output, same voltage range, Wow, the harbor freights, if maintained well, outperform brand name panels. How interesting. thank you for the vid. Very enlightening.
@@probablynotabigtoe9407 In recent years, they've really been trying to change their image and quality. You can still get cheap junk there, but they also have some really good quality stuff on the shelf now. As for these solar panels... the HF panel is objectively better than the Renogy. Copper wire vs. aluminum (copper is a better conductor but aluminum is cheaper, and price is the only reason to use it vs. copper) soldered connections instead of just crimps (soldering takes longer in production, but crimps are subject to oxidation if not done perfectly, and can loosen over time, especially on aluminum which is not as elastic as copper) Finally, there's the appearance of the inside of the junction box. The Renogy panel looks like it was assembled by someone who didn't give a f*** about their work- the diodes just shoved in there almost sideways, with bent leads and connections just kind of half-assed. The HF panel on the other hand looks like it was assembled by someone who has pride in their work- the diodes are in there straight, the connections are neat and look good. Literally the only cost cutting measure I saw was the use of SAE connectors instead of... Whatever the standard ones are called. The SAE connectors aren't as weather resistant and don't have positive locking tabs. However, there's actually a good reason to use them here- HF markets these panels to RVers and other people who are primarily planning to use them for charging 12 volt lead acid batteries, and those SAE connectors are a standard connection type for that. They're used on boats, RVs, and battery chargers everywhere.
You had the perfect setup to test how blocking a single cell, or part of the panel effects performance. Like shading the lower 1/4th of the panel. Also another + comment on getting to the point and showing the content. Great video.
I did the shade test and edited it out added like 4 mins and both suffered greatly but the renogy did slightly better like a volt or two more but no watts. Hard with just a single panel. But I did 80% 50% 30% 25% Changed the shade area to go over certain parts of the cells on that string and more and both really did t produce anything unless about 90% uncovered .
@@johnnysweekends Good video. The shading thing is kind of tricky until you get how the wiring of the cells works. An individual cell being shaded will take out the entire string due to the protection diodes that will "shut off" a string in the PV to protect against fire in that string. There's actually a lot to it, but it shows up with those drops you noted. Look very carefully at the PV and note how the busses are wired to figure out orientation... then block one or more cells on a given string to see the whole string cut out.
I was at our Harbor Freight store when they first came out. They were $99 so I bought two of them. They are for backup. I connected them together with hinges to make a suitcase. Heavy but easy to store.
I bought the Harbor Freight panel for $99. I have only used once while dry camping. It did a great job of charging up the batteries on my RV. No regrets so far.
I am surprised how well the Harbor Freight panel did in this comparision. It also revealed how many panels I would need to power up one roof top a/c for my fifth wheel trailer! That would come to 17 panels!
Well if you can use bigger panels go that route. 200 watts or larger. Just depends on the lay out and how much room you have. And in all honesty running a AC in trailer is expensive and can take along time for pay back. A generator is still cheaper in the long run and you can keep the generator.
Get a 12v swamp cooler. As long as you have water and it's not too humid, it works quite well. You can run a evaporative cooler on maybe 2 panels, pump needs included.
I have a 100 watt renogy panel that I have had for about 5 years. The glass is perfect but the silicon cells underneath have mostly fractured. It gives out less than 2 amps in full sun now. I am definitely going to replace it with the Harbor Freight panel
@@Texasprepper I read the warranty very carefully. It does not cover environmental damage. Clearly this was done by temperature cycling from the environment. I don't know if they will decide to cover it anyway
@@Texasprepper I agree that it wouldn't hurt to try. But I just found out a few days ago and haven't tried yet. I replaced my battery bank and I noticed it when I was testing the entire system.
@@spacecase0 Good luck with any warranty issues on garbage made in cheating lying communist china. Just ask contractors about houses that had cheating china extremely toxic sheetrock. Cost the average homeowner $80,000 to have all insulation, poisonous china sheet rock, all the wires ,copper water lines and plumbing faucets.
I agree it’s getting way better. Imagine 5 years. This size panel will be double output. And bi facial may really be pumping a lot more as well. Thanks for the comment and thanks again for watching
See and people ask, well how long with these even last. Some of the original designed solar panels are still putting out power today. 👍🏼 Yours is a great point. They still work
Aluminum degrades fairly quickly when wet. I lived at a couple of different campgrounds who had used aluminum wire on the meter boxes and there were major problems either white corrosion at connectors or anywhere it was exposed to moisture although it was run in plastic conduit there were problems
@@g.4279 true but what grade is usually used for wire applications. many alloys of AL would be too brittle to be used in a wire form so perhaps the marine grade is great at corrosion but terrible when stranded and carrying current. I honestly dont know, but carrying current is one of the largest factors on increase in oxidation rate. They use AL wire for large transmission lines so we know it can be a cheap material to delivery large amounts of energy but what grade they use vs this panel, and how much flex they expect it will need to tolerate will determine how exotic they can go. would be interesting to know for sure.
@@bretmohler9719 high voltage lines are made from 1350 aluminum a grade that is at least 99.5% pure aluminum with limits for certain elements that could reduce conductivity. I doubt many aluminum alloys would be cheaper or easier to work with, so the lower voltage lines are probably at least reasonably similar.
@@garethbaus5471 ok good info. So then looking at the conductivity chart it has a 62 while a marine grade 5083 has a 29. So the corrosion resistance is prob not worth a 50 percent loss in conductivity. I didn't look up anything about how ductile they are compared to each other.
I really appreciate your presentation, easy to follow, no personal opinions, straight shown facts. Great job, hopefully others can learn from your format.
I was a maintenance electrician for 32 years, I have nothing good to say about aluminum wiring, and aluminum w/crimp connectors should be outlawed. Nice vid, thank you.
Second independent review I've seen comparing these same panels, with the same result. I may have to take back everything I ever thought bad about HF. One interesting comparison that might cost a few bucks is a destructive test (how well they would hold up in a hail storm). Thanks OP for the thoughtful review and time it took to publish it.
Depends on size of the hail. At about golf ball size, all bets are off reguardless of manufacturer. Also hardness qnd density of the hail ball makes a huge difference. For this reason, you will have a hard time finding a correct answer to that.
Another excellent episode! In general, the quality of all solar panels has improved over the years. Also pretty likely HF doesn't make their own panels, and there aren't a huge number of manufacturers out there. Might both come from the same plant. Also note that IR thermometers can get very inaccurate if not held close enough, and if not held at something close to 90*. They can also produce very different and inaccurate readings if the surface finish is shiny vs matte. For comparisons, just put a piece of black electrical tape on both objects to remove that source of error from reflectivity.
Yes the solar panels are definitely getting better from every manufacturer as the tech gets better. And correct harbor freight does not make there panels no do a lot of companies it’s all sourced out from a major supplier. I don’t know how much of HFs stuff is made by them if any. It might all be made from a company who they contract with. And thanks I’ll try the idea on the next run of testing to see if there are some differences in temp accuracy 👍🏼😀
Good, America years 2076 , 300 hundred years old.Hope this environmentally friendly Solar system can help all Citizens.NEED to learn basic skills to install .Thanks sharing.
I just tested both the Harbor Freight and Renogy panels again with sun out very bright! The Harbor Freight are running a little over 100 watts, 5.2 Amps, and 20+ volts, and the Renogy is running a little over 80+ watts each, but they are not side by side, so it is not a complete accurate test, but the Harbor Freight panels are testing a little better wattage!.
I see a lot of people here commenting on the Renogy panel being better because they "know" it will be better over time. Perhaps that's true but until the theory is tested it remains merely an opinion. Plenty of guys use HF air tools without issue for years while doubters claim their Snap On's will last three times as long. Again, perhaps that's true but at three times the price what's the difference? Obviously these panels don't have that big of a price difference so it may be a wash. Also, the type of copper is a factor. Copper is a better conductor but if not OFC free or very well insulated it will corrode and become brittle and then snap after several years. But that can happen to aluminum as well.
“at three times the price what’s the difference?” You don’t have to waste any time procuring a replacement. And since prices are always going up over time-even when inflation isn’t high-your second and third ones will cost more, so it will have been _less_ than three times the price in the end. And that’s not even getting into the extra trash from needing to buy two more.
Most of my tools are Rigid,Milwaukee & Dewalt love them & stand by them. But for many reasons I've had to run out to quickly buy a tool. Harbor Freight was close the first time I needed to grab a hammer drill quickly. Had it several years now & no problems. Other tools I've bought there cordless drills, grinder, screw gun & air comp. All have made their money & stood the test of time. They are a bit louder than my other tools & the small compressor takes more time to fill. But have no complaints & not worried About a $300 multi tool falling off staging,ladder or roof when the rookies use them on the job.
Somethings are great for a one time job and are expected to be thrown away. But they keep working and eventually a few years later your like, huh this stupid thing still works good. 🤷♂️🤷♂️😅👍🏼
Aircraft and spacecraft always use crimp connections because they are more reliable than solder. Solder can crack and break. That Harbor freight panel works surprisingly well! I use a Baldr 120 folding panel to charge my 2 Bluetti's. I have a EB70 and the new EB3A. LOVE the new display on the EB3A!
This video sold me on the HF panels. I installed 2 of them on my skoolie last weekend after picking them up on sale for $89/ea. They work great. Thanks!
I’ve had numerous soldering classes in the USAF and after. They always say to start with a good mechanical connection, then solder. They both should crimp then solder.
That is my thinking as well. Especially if application is mobile like RV and subject to vibration. Air Force Vet here too. We are such Perfectionists. Have to be!
Aluminum is usually crimped because it's more difficult to reliably solder to. Copper is usually soldered (except where mechanical stress is expected, because the point where the solder stops wicking into the copper wire forms a stress point and increases the chances of failure)
I bought one of those harbor freight Thunderbolt 100 watt panels for my Bluetti solar generator and it works so well that I bought a second one and for less than half the price of most other brands.
You gave a ideal . Cooling the panles down to produce more power . The optimal temperature for electricity to travel is absolute zero. So the best places to have solar when the sun is out is the south and north pole . When you combined heat and cold togeather you get condensation.
Excellent job, thanks. I'll take copper and solder over crimped aluminum any day. I've tested solar panels and never seen one at spec like that. Good to know.
The solder vs crimp debate is easy. If it moves crimp, if it's stationary solder. When a stranded wire is soldered it becomes solid. If it flexes often stresses can cause the soldered wire to snap. Boats, car, motorcycle wiring gets crimped for me; with a coat of oxguard for corrosion
Yeah, I used to solder almost every terminal until they started breaking just below the solder point. As you said, it turns a bit of the wire into solid core and fatigues quickly. Stationary or anchored wire, yeah soldering is good. However, I crimp almost everything now that's not on a circuit board. Whether it's wire ferrules, crimp connectors with a good ratcheting crimper, or ring terminals with a hydraulic hex crimper. I use some dielectric grease or deox-it spray on the wires before crimping to make sure the connection between wire and connector stay clean.
Thank you for making it easy to understand for someone who doesn't know much about the solar panels. I have portable panels but I'm thinking about adding one panel to trickle charge my house battery. This video helps me a lot.
If I ever build a solar system, which I most likely will, I will find the best conducting wire I can. It will be crimped and soldered and it will be a full run without any connections from the roof to the first component. I suspect a thick gauge with fine strand copper would be best, but I don't know because I haven't researched that part yet. I will definitely be finding out.
You don’t want fine strand but medium will do fine. And depending on the run or how big 8 or 10g will be fine unless you plan on a larger home system then you’ll want to adjust accordingly.
If you're worried about voltage drop, get an MPPT that can take 500V to get as many panels in series as you can. A single string at 8-9A won't have much drop at all even with a few connections in between the panels and MPPT. Tin coated copper is your best bet. It's more about retaining conductivity than starting out higher. And I wouldn't solder anything, a good hydraulic hex crimp with some dielectric grease will be just as good without adding brittleness that soldering brings. I used to solder wire connections until they starting breaking just below the solder points.
Thanks for the thorough tests. I have wondered those 2 panels compare. I have 6 of the Harbor Freight panels that I purchased when they had a coupon that let you buy up to 4 (they let me get 6) at $89. I use them for my travel trailer with a Victron charge controller and also for my Bluetti E55 and AC200P. I changed some of them to MC4 connectors and left the sae plugs on 2 of them and use adapter cables. The Bluettis each came with cables to use MC4 for input. They work great in series or parallel and in good sun consistently give the rated output, occasionally a bit more. I am very impressed with the quality and performance of them.
WOW... that's great! May I ask what coupon did you use? Where did you get that? I would like to get couple of the 100 watts panel from HF. Thank you. Cheer!
@@friedrice5292 It was a coupon I got in my email from them. That was several months ago. I did see a coupon last month for $99. If you go on the HF website they usually have the specials listed.
Thank- you!! This is the basic solar advice channel I need to pull it all together. First time you have popped up on my feed, but now I'm subscribed. Was very glad to see your test of the Harbor Freight panel matched up closely with my meter readings. Now I need to watch your other vids to see why I'd need to change the connectors.
Glad I could help. Trying to help people get started but explaining it in simple terms with out much of the technical stuff. Glad you found me….and feel free to ask questions from me or anyone else to help or get advice you need. I try to answer as many comments as I can but sometimes they come in so fast it’s hard…😀👍🏼
After working with electronics, off and on, through my life, I was surprised, recently, to find out that solder is a less than ideal conductor of electricity. That is why you rarely see it used in house wiring. It creates a point of resistance. The one thing with solar panels, though, is also the consideration that moisture may get into a crimped connection causing corrosion, causing resistance or failure.
Yea the nicest solar panels residential type are actually potted so you can even get to the connections which is fully water proof. Digging that out is no fun.
Like anything James, the quality of the solder is what makes or breaks a good connection and conductivity. Using a lesser grade / lower quality solder will of course impede current and voltage flow versus a higher quality solder and that is one with more tin in it.
Of course when you compare solder, which is mostly tin and lead to metals like copper and aluminum, it's a worse conductor, but the difference is small. And that's an apples and oranges comparison. It's an invalid comparison because the alternative to a solder joint is a junction between 2 separate pieces. As you mention you can get corrosion at junctions like that, but even without visible corrosion and without any moisture, practically all metals, except maybe gold and platnium react with air to form an oxide layer. In fact, this is the reason some metals, like Aluminum appear to not corrode. Aluminum appears to stay shiny, because it actually very quickly forms a very thin, hard layer of clear aluminum oxide that protects it from further corrosion. However, that oxide layer, will add resistance. So, a soldered joint is definitely going to be superior to any kind of crimped joint, unless you use gold plated contacts. The reason it's not used in house wiring is it would add cost and make repairs, modifications, or upgrades much more complicated and costly. Also, the actual thickness of the solder joint between the two contacts is going to be very thin, so even if the solder isn't as good a conductor as the copper, the overall difference is negligible and as stated is far superior to any other kind of junction. So, soldered is definitely the way to go.
As a retired electrician 14 awg copper carries more load than aluminum of the same size. The Rinergy may do better if they increased the aluminum wire to 12 awg and soldered all the connections. Good test though thanks.
@@Trialnerror I believe copper clad aluminum (CCA) should be outlawed. It's junk and won't last long at all in the elements. It's getting difficult to even find cat5 or cat6 network cable that isn't CCA. It works at first then it eventually breaks connection. Have you had any success using CCA?
One difference you didn't cite is the higher voltage for the HF panel; the same wattage at higher voltage will have less line loss, because line loss is largely a function of number of amps being pushed through
I get what you're saying but a volt or 2 will give you negligible results the amount of resistance in the wire for 1 or 2 volts would probably result on fractions of a watt lost
We can discuss all the details of circuit resistance, half cell designs, etc. But given the fact, that the HF panel is 986 in² and the Renogy is 866 in² alone counts for an increase in output even if everything else was equal.
@@scottkolaya2110 you're assuming equal efficiency. The nominal specs of the Renogy is 18.6v 5.38A, while the HF is 18v 5.56A. Those are both 100.1W, despite the difference in size, meaning that _nominally_ the Renogy panel uses more efficient cells.
Nice..!! They are good panels and many people have them getting really good results. And they even cut the price a little which really make it a better buy now. When the price was almost equal then the HF really made it more equal.
@@johnnysweekends I bought the whole package one components at a time as I could afford it and I'm not disappointed with this product. Thank you for being forward with the information and not hype it up. We need more content creators like you.
MigMig Johnson - To give you an idea, my 100W Renogy panels have been on my camper van roof for three and a half years. I am getting over 94W per panel using a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/20 which has a peak efficiency of 98%. So the panels are approx 4% (4W) below spec after three and a half years. I hope that helps.
I have a similar HF looking HSQT panel. These panels, at least the HSQT are lighter and easier to move. So I made it a point to not buy longated panels in the future. When I move them for storage, I just tie them together. And I can carry each set on one hand. So I'm moving four instead of two longated panels. They are really almost like carrying a kit.
@@johnnysweekends True. I LOVE their wrenches and socket sets! I haven't had great luck with their power tools (bought years ago), but they are cheap and do last long enough to justify the purchase. I'm curious about their new Bauer grinders... they look well made. :3
Hi being a electrician for over 20 years and doing electrical work the Harbor freight gets my vote!...I think it's made better and the other would mostly likely not last as long FYI and degrade quicker aluminum also expands and contracts more than cooper causing loose connections and when it was used in residential wiring caused house 🔥 fires so the only use it mostly now in wiring to feed service panels breaker boxes and I still had to check and tighten the lugs as a preventative maintenance because loose connections would over heat damaging the equipment and causing safety issues.. Stranded Cooper is the best because it has more surface area for the voltage and current to travel with less resistance (Ohms) which aids the efficiency of this harbor freight solar panels... Thanks for the review!
I love the editing on this you're doing an amazing job! The bus is coming out so beautiful! Ashton you are such a good sport you all make me laugh. Till next time, God bless.
As solder heats up and cools down, it will eventually crack. You can see that where VRMs, which get really hot, eventually fail at the solder joint. So crimping where they did isn't a bad thing at all.
@@2pist I just resoldred a 32 year old Bose bass module where the VRMs contacted the heatsink. About 80% of them had the telltale circular cracks in them. Wires probably will be fine. The problem is where the joint gets hot and cold over and over again.
@@2pist By contrast, I had a '93 honda civic that developed a crack in a solder joint going to a relay on a PCB. The ambient temperature / engine temperature changes were enough to cause it to conduct or be open circuit. Took a while to find that....
The more the indifferent the materials the more likely the solder is to crack and it depends on the type of solder. The Cummins 24 valve engines had issues with circuit boards losing contact internally from the heating and cooling with the Solder.
Soldered connectors can get microfractures due to heat cycles and vibrations and crimped is resistant to that and so is usually preferred. Crimped can get problems with corrosion due to the weather especially with aluminum so I'd prefer soldered for these.
@@2pist This is considered bad form. When properly formed, a crimped connection is superior to soldered in literally every way - including corrosion resistance, as a proper crimped connection is gas and liquid tight. It's also lower resistance than soldered. Soldering a crimped connection can actually weaken a crimped connection.
Good review. I actually have both brands. 4 Renogy 100watt "flexible " panels and 4 Harbor freight 100watt "glass" panels. The Harbor Freight out performs the Renogy panels. These are set up in two strings of 400watts. One powers my Inergy Apex (with TWO Flex batteries), and the other powers my "Power Cart" with 4 6v 240Wh batteries in series/parallel. Separate solar controller (Epever 40amp) and power out to a Renogy 2000w pure sine wave inverter/charger.
Any glass panel typically is going to out perform a flexible almost every time. The flex panels do have there place but just need to know the output will be about 5-7% less than a glass panel.
I have four of the really old 25w panels from HF. They have been charging a small lead-acid battery and powering lights in our shed for at least 6 or 7 years, with no trouble at all.
Yea those are the older ones. The amount of companies coming out with solar panels is really getting crazy…!! Glad to see them still working and thanks for the feedback..😀👍🏼
Also, I use heat shrink tubing now whenever splicing wires. That small investment pays huge dividends in reliability and just the appearance of the splice.
I repair medical equipment, and when I replace motors, I stagger the cuts just as you recommend (I have seen splices short together when the tape or shrink wrap moved or failed).
Great comparison, but I wonder if the slight difference is because the Renogy ran a bit warmer, without air circulation behind it?. Keep up the good work.
I do t see how only a couple degrees could effect it. Even with me still comparing them just leaning on a wall the Hf is still consistently putting out more watts. It’s possible though.
Would love to see simultaneous reading with identical resistors as load. There is too much changing to actually compare. and ... watts IS amps x voltage!
I was guessing from the beginning that this was a renogy commercial or something but this was quite fair and Harbor Freight coming out on top except in price. thank you.
I cannot comment on the Renogy panels as I have not used them to any great extent, but I *Have* used the slightly older Harbor Freight panels for the past decade and a half and they are still performing VERY well... I have used them under many trying conditions and have had very little drop off in performance over the years... then again, I also perform proper maintenance on them every year by cleaning and checking ALL connections of my 8 panel array. They are also taken apart and put into storage for a couple months every year with the associated wear and tear of transportation and of the connectors. I will qualify that I have not specifically compared individual readings to the original spec, but I have not had any noticeable reduction in use time on a daily basis. I am very happy with the cost versus overall lifetime of those panels as I have only had to replace one that got broken by a(n) (un)lucky hit during a severe hail storm several years ago.
I'm not going to say anything negative about the Renogy that I've never used... but I've been using the Harbor Freight panel to keep my Jackery 500 going for about 2 years and it's always worked great. The max charge I've ever seen is about 65W... but I think that has more to do with the Jackery itself than the panels because when it's plugged into normal shore power it charges in the mid 80's.
Some major points not covered: With Renogy you get a warranty with replacement if it fails. None with HF panels. The more smaller cells and bus wires means more points of failure over time. You paid $129 + another $5 for the MC4 cables for the HF panel for only slightly better performance and no warranty. I also think as others have said you restricted the air flow to the Renogy that probably accounted for the small difference in output. Also test them under low light conditions and I bet the Renogy do better. Larger cells capture more light. Also what gauge wire on the panels and stranded or not makes a difference. HF panels I have seen use recycled cheap stranded copper and less gauge and will fray and overheat. I have had Renogy 100 watt on my off grid cabin for over 8 years now with no problems. I suspect over time you will experience failures on those HF panels. If you rely on solar everyday for years like I do you want panels that will hold up and keep working. Go with the Renogy!
Ask any one about Renogy warranty and they will all say the same, poor and need help bad, very bad. I have mentioned it to them because I like there products but they need help in the customer service and warranty area. HF it’s literally drop off and grab another panel. But the extended warranty and you get even more. I don’t have much issues if I buy the extended. But I don’t take much stuff back. The air restrictions people are taking way to literal. Both panels are are outside at same time acclimated to the ambient temp and a couple degrees and a little breeze if any won’t change the output of a heat soaked panel. Sorry but it won’t make a noticeable difference. Sure 15 degrees yea then we could see a gain over a set time. I don’t like one panel more then the other. Just showing what they do when new, then soon we will see what does better after 20% degradation kicks in. Both have been outside since new in the sun and I use both here and there to charge power stations or test things.
I've found over time the Renogy panels hold up better than the harbor freight. My friends went with the harbor freight brand and I went with Renogy, in the beginning they edged me out but after a couple of years the Renogy have pulled ahead. They have mostly maintained their efficiency where as my friends HF have dropped quite a bit.
Honestly, that sounds about right for anything HF. Not knocking them, to me their niche has always been less expensive products for things I won’t use a lot or am willing to risk losing.
At 2:47: crimps can be more durable than solder; solder joints can crack with time and vibration. Aluminum is not preferred however, aluminum oxides are not conductive so if the wire corrodes with age the joint can become bad. At 2:55 the diode solder joint in the middle looks less than ideal, notice how the solder is around the wire and not smoothly flowed to it, for lack of a better description. It looks like the joint wasn't heated enough during soldering, and/or they were skimpy on flux. Also for both cases using a pfet here instead of a diode would give better efficiency (less loss to heat).
The soldering on the Harbor freight is sloppy, but, as another poster stated, aluminum " cant" be soldered. Actually, it can, but it takes extra heat and some skills that most companies dont want to pay for. The Aluminum wires will corrode quickly.
@@2pist Not all wire is CU coated AL. I would rip that shit out and solder in some TXL or SXL if I were using those chinese panels. I think the conclusion here is both of those panels are trash. If I had something where solar were important, I would double the design N+1, and make sure it's a reputable brand with a warranty both on function and performance like an LG. See SAE J-1128 for reference.
Copper wire is infinitely preferred over aluminum, especially when you consider LONGEVITY. Unless those aluminum connections are well sealed, they will oxidize, over time & exposure. The choice for me is CLEAR.
Agreed. I don't trust crimp connectors. If I was using this panel, I would solder all the connections. Also, that solder connection on the right side of the Renogy panel looked pretty sketchy. I'd probably re-do that, too.
@@tomwilson2112 I am going to experiment with the HF panel. I'm thinking of using Reflectors around the panel, to increase the amount of light hitting it, at any given time. If my guess is correct, it should increase efficiency overall by as much as 5%. I suspect that on overcast days, those reflectors will increase output as well. I am doing small scale experimenting, before doing anything larger. I just wish we could get those 34% panels sold ONLY in China. The US syndicate (Gov) blocked sales in the US.
Quick and to the point 👍. We're still trying to figure out what we want for a solar system at our off grid cabin and this helps. Think i may go with the harbour freight panels. Thanks.
I'm a Electrician and HVAC Technician, copper is always better than aluminum they use aluminum now only for main power lines to panels or the service drop... aluminum expands and contracts when used for a conductor which causes loose connections and why aluminum for house hold receptacles or outlets is no longer used because they have been the source of many house fires when they use aluminum wire for lighting and receptacles in house wiring!... special anti oxidation and splices with aluminum to copper are used on the house's that still have aluminum wiring....and also a special outlet is sold for this also to combat the issue of aluminum wiring getting loose connections and over heating causing fires or over heating also instead of pushing the wires into the clip holes in the back it is always much better to put the under the screws minding the direction the screw turns to have the wire bent in the same direction to ensure a tight connection that will stay tight longer over the test of time ...many electrical companies and contractors though use the back clip in hole because how quick and convenient they are to install and complete the job ....time is money!...but a good soldered connection always is better just remember to use the proper solder or flux for the electrical and in areas that have water /weather etc. Use proper weather proofing of electrical even bugs or mice etc.moisutre all need to be kept from the electrical..... ...keep them dry and clean...when I was working on panels that had circuits over heating. We used Lazer thermometer to check temperatures of the electrical connections or even thermoheat video meter which is more expensive but can pinpoint all the connections quickly that are overheating. ..have a good day y'all! Stay safe and respect the power of ⚡⚡⚡ electricity ....it only takes about 2 amps to disrupt the beat of a human ❤️. Many batteries can be well over 100 amps and if you ! Used welding with stick electrode and grounding clamp to what your welding and it grounded...could stick weld metal but would be dangerous as it would be a direct short on the battery and it could overheat or explode.. from hydrogen gasses...so under some circumstances even a 12 volt batteries can be dangerous enough to kill someone! Work safe and fare thee well!
@@johnnysweekends You don't have too. I can see the very fine strands of wire. Only Tinned Copper gets that...It's to prevent Corrosion from water or moisture getting in.
The commercial property I worked at for thirty years was originally built with all aluminum wiring back in the late 1960's. Every year we had to go to our main electrical room and tighten all the lugs because, as Randall said, the aluminum wire expanding and contracting created this situation. If we failed to do it, we would have aluminum wiring arching causing burned lugs and loss of power. By the time I left there all aluminum wiring was gone, the cost of which was depreciated, we have eliminated a potential for fire, and we saved the annual expense of having an electrician go through the property tightening the lugs in the panels. For electrical wiring, whatever or wherever the use, it's copper only for me.
@@boblinda1738 That was only used in the 1950'e. Due to the lack of Copper.During the rebuilding of Europe after WWII. As copper was expensive to mine ...And only America had the capacity to supply huge amounts of materials for that rebuilding... And to stop that. You used Nolox...As the problem was the lugs were Aluminum as well..Which they still are today in new service panels.. Hell the Main service feed to your house is Aluminum wire. As that is what the electrical company install from the transformer.. Now you want o go have fun. Go replace Knob and Tubing. It's run the same way. Free air no insulation..Wrapped around insulators..Like the power company runs high tension lines..
Cells are arranged in parallel strings, and each series string can only deliver as much current as its weakest link. So if a bird craps on a single cell (blocking its exposed area) which drops its max amperage from, say, 1.5A down to 1.1A, the entire string will be limited to 1.1A. So more strings in parallel would be more resistant to a single cell's upset.
@@glenwaldrop8166 Think of connecting 10 straws together and pumping water through 'em. If 1 straw is half-blocked, it blocks the whole chain of 10. So with more parallel straw-chains, blocking 1 has much less of an overall (negative) effect.
@@joeschmo622 I can see how a weak link in a circuit is a bottleneck, just can't see why 4 cells at 1.5A would be limited by the 1.1A circuit *unless* that 1.1A circuit was limited internally, not by the limited exposure to sunlight. That's where I'm hung up. Why?
The current rating is a characteristic of the PN junction in a photovoltaic cell. It is not changed by crapping on the cell. What is changed is the voltage output of the cell itself. When you have a string of cells in series then the current is limited by the "weakest link" and the voltage is the sum of each cell. Crapping on one cell will reduce the summed voltage but not the current capacity.
@@rickr530 No. *Current* is a function of light intensity on the cell. Take a 2A cell and cover half, and it'll only produce 1A. Voltage will be nearly identical for both cases. Insolation (with an 'o' not 'u') is measured by *shorting out* a solar-cell so that V=0, and measuring the current. This all but eliminates V as a source of error. The I-V curve of a solar cell at a given irradiance is a fairly *flat voltage* of about 0.5V, up to the point where the current "maxes out" and stays there, while voltage drops to 0. Peak power is the upper-right corner of that curve where I and V max out.
I haven’t kept up with electricity technology but remember a rash of mobile home fires in the news back in the mid. 70s where it was determined that aluminum wiring was ruled the common cause.
Great content. My experience with the older 5BB Renogy is that after 3-5 years they will develop snail trails and/or cracks. All four did, so I have switched when ordering NEW panels to HQST and 100w panels are now at $79.99 and with a discount coupon they are $72.56 and are also 9BB panels, free shipping and no tax.....additionally all of my panels are ground mounted in Michigan with temps between -20 and +100F and at times heavy snow(12 inches).....enjoy and keep the content coming.
Yea they tends to short between the connecting bus bars which then those cells can be shorted and dead and maybe even kill most the panel. Had some residential panels like that
@@johnnysweekends No, thank you! Also, one other tip for trouble shooting a bad panel. With no load, check for 21+ voltage for a 36 cell 100 watt. IF you only see 10-12 volts, then you have one of two issues.....either a diode went bad or as in my case, the solder lifted just under the metal where the three diodes are soldered onto the plate. IF the reading is 0V then both diodes are both sides have lifted and broke the connection. The fix takes maybe 5 seconds, far less time than it took for the solder iron to heat up.
I have purchased 4 HQST 100w panels over the last 2 years. Appear to be the same as Renogy at a lower price point of $89 each. They have worked flawlessly.
One thing that you may want to look at before deciding anything about the material used in the wiring. You cannot call something copper or aluminum because of its color. There are copper plated aluminum wires and tin plated copper wires. Scrape the strands and see if anything else exists under a suspected plating before you decide what the wire is. =)
You certainly can solder aluminum wire, but it's impractical at this price point. Of course, Renogy is clearly aiming at a low price point here, with the "quantity over quality" mindset and they'd likely crimp connections anyway for the assembly savings. If they wanted, they could use copper-clad aluminum but there's nothing wrong with properly spec'd aluminum wire. Nor with crimping, if done correctly, and it would be mechanically more sound. The real issue is that it's a panel designed to stay at a $99 (now $89) price-point, and that means trimming every corner you can. Obviously a bit more gets you those trimmed corners back, but then it's not a $90 panel any more. The question is, does that extra $20-$40 get you 20-40% more performance. Is the performance difference from the Renogy due to crimped connectors and two feet of ~16awg (copper equivalent) wiring, or the cell assembly and quality? 14awg aluminum for 24v at 6A for 2 feet looks like more than is needed anyway.
It’s much more likely that the renogy panels are using tinned copper. No one uses aluminum wiring any longer. Crimps are a better connection than soldering for this application
IPC standards state a solder joint provides a better electrical connection than a crimp joint. Plus, the results speak for themselves. The HF panels are the clear winner and are built better.
@@saltysteel3996 I've had 2 Renogy's sitting on my camper for 2yrs now in the Texas sun with no issues. The HF is not the clear winner as it has a lower performance per dollar. That's the only scientific data that's been presented. The video review, including your opinion, is only speculating that the HF will last longer than the Renogy. You can't base a winner off pure speculation. Put these outdoors for 5yrs, compare performance and durability, and then you can deduce the winner.
@@jonmccauley6490 that does depend on use case, though. If I'm not mistaken unloaded solar cells in sunlight causes the silicon to degrade. So the quality of the silicon and the %load used from the panels will effect their lifespans as well. I'd think for something like a house with very good electrical management, the renegy is probably the best due to $/W and it being a best use case.
Just thought I'd mention the different ventilation of the two panels. One of the two is getting somewhat better movement of air around it, which could affect performance.
The difference in air and temp is very minimal especially for the 5 minutes they were sitting there. They both are already acclimated to the ambient air temp outside. And a 5 degree difference between panels with have minimal to no change in out put numbers. 20 degrees for sure.. To this day the Hf is still putting out better numbers but a 6 month and 1 year degradation test will be coming along with wear and tear due to elements like yesterday and today with temps in the 114-115 and direct sun..👍🏼
@@johnnysweekends I just subbed, solar tech is exciting. Thanks for spending your time and money on testing this stuff and sharing your knowledge. I don't think most people realize it yet but you're doing a public service good here.
All DC connections, gauge, and mostly wire length are tremendously sensitive to voltage drop. In years past I have wired many kitchen high intensity under cabinet transformers and circuits. (With LEDs that tech is mostly gone now.) But I had to calculate load vs line length for every section of the kitchen. Every 8 to 10 feet of cable length required a higher gauge cable. Edison ran into the same difficulties. He needed a generating station every 2 blocks. The old DC cables in some of the older Boston buildings are of an epic size. Check it yourself. What is the voltage drop for 0 feet,, 10 feet, 20 feet, 30 feet,, etc. And keep in mind total cable length from a roof top to a controller, storage location can be substantial,,, 80 to 100 feet would not be unusual. Too small a gauge wire would very likely degrade the performance substantially. Aluminum vs copper always requires one gauge larger for the aluminum in residential wiring.
I prefer copper wire, and soldered joins. A win for the Harbor Freight panel/ I also have owned a few Harbor Freight panels, they always did a good job.
At first I thought you were going to do nothing but read specs. Good test. I plan on buying a couple for my boat, I'll be honest, the Harbor Freight ones will be easier to mount on the rails. Glad to know there really isn't that much of a difference between them.
Lol yea that would have been a lame video just reading numbers lol. But yea the newer panels from HF are way better then those cheap units they had a few years ago.
The only thing missing is a watt per sq. inch for each panel and a watt per dollar for each panel. That's the true test as the limiting factors for solar installers are rooftop space and budget. Also, my experience with HF merch is that they appear to work fine at first but quickly crap out in some way. Usually soon after the return period is up.
Agreed! Engineering is so advanced these days they can build things to break at very accurately timeframe. It’s almost scary how good they can do this. But it’s about power efficiency to cost ratio and more importantly what you need for power vs what you want. However, you’re better off buying cheaper now because electric technology is about to hit it’s stride… especially with electric vehicles. Tesla got the ball rolling with car’s and now you have all types of legitimate electric vehicles… from skateboard’s,bike’s to motorcycles and just about anything that ran on gas can be solar powered. What’s limiting EV right now is range, but what’s going to bring EV (electric vehicle’s) into the fold as a legitimate replacement is when the next generation more advanced battery cells hit, along with the latest in solar panel’s. Theoretically, you wouldn’t need to charge your vehicle as long as it got some sun. Crazy how technology is only limited by our imagination
The thing I'd be most interested to see is to connect the two panels to two identical loads and measure the total watt-hours produced over the course of a day. The amount of power a solar panel generates is very dependent on the angle of the sun and any cloud cover, so it's important to test both panels over the course of a full day, right next to each other, to minimize the number of variables.
I just started the voyage into solar. I just bought Bluetti AC200P and 4 HF panels. Didn't realize that the Bluetti required 35v min to charge. So I need to connect in series to increase voltage. Can't do with SAE plugs so I need to replug to MC4 or replace with different brand panels.
Ahh yes correct you’ll have to switch out so you can run in series for a higher voltage. It’s a easy swap… Check out my video in the link to swap to mc4 connectors…😀👍🏼
I have 4 of those exact harbor freight panels. After investing in 4 lithium batteries, my little shop that was simply not practical to run grid power to gives me fantastic performance. I use the shop on the weekends to strip cars and other things for scrap. I can run a sawzall all day turn on the 12 volt LED light system and work on into the night. I couldn't be more pleased. I have a box truck that is next on the list for a similar system.
@@wmluna381 renogy 100ah ( about $2000 USD for 4 of them) I actually have capacity to add more panels, but I've got to nickel - dime this, and the batteries were a large investment for me. They charge throughout the week and provide plenty to do what I need on the weekends. I think it's well worth it. The wife might disagree!
@@johnnysweekends It's hard to identify which renogy panel is which :) I have five, all of which have 36 cells in a 3x12 grid, but my first panel is slightly wider and shorter than the other first. Started with their 100watt kit in Dec 2018: RNG-KIT-STARTER100P-WND30. In fall 2019 I picked up another 100w panel which is described as a "compact design" - it was supposed to match the kit panel, but it did not. Then I picked up 3 more of the "compact design."
Nice video and thumbs up to HF to make a affordable panel that gives us experimental guys something to work with. I bought the 100 watt four panel version and found that it was a pain to work with. So I bought the single 100 watt panel for ease of use. Would really like to see you compare the harbor freight to HF panels and see if there is any advantage, being both are the same price.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
UPDATE: Late last evening I went and popped the back panel off the Renogy solar panel to verify if the wire truly was Tinned copper and it was!! Like so many had mentioned. I updated the description and may show a short video for those interested. Sorry for the quick over look. Updated 6 month and 1 year will come later.
Ok, now hit each one with an EMP and see if either one survives.
What would you expect to survive a emp since no one has seen it happen in real life? And these would take a second to fix. A all it would do is pop a diode, maybe. Boom good to go again.
Definitely 💯
@@johnnysweekends wow, youtube blocked their own video demonstrating how to EMP test your equipment and ensure your system is hardened against lightening strikes ? Sad to see the truth blocked by communists.
I have settings in my account that blocks links on purpose. I had to do this after my account grew and spam was starting to show up everywhere. So unfortunately it blocks other people sharing links as well.
I appreciate how quickly you give the information- No BS and you jump right to the next point. I'm a fan. Thanks
You’re welcome and thank you… no time for fluff! Well maybe a pinch sometimes 😅👍🏼
Didn't even feel like I watched an 8 minute video 🤣 maybe other youtubers can learn from this
I hope not it only helps me 🤣🤣🤣👊🏼👍🏼
I could not agree more!
I get so frustrated with videos such as these where people will sit there and babble for 2 or 3 minutes about nothing that has anything to do with the subject at hand. This is very refreshing.
Thank you 😀👍🏼
Diodes, soldered in with straight leads, will experience mechanical stress between the diode chip and the attached leads, as they expand and contract with heat and cool cycles. If you have a diode failure and have to replace them, put a bit of an S bend in each lead, before you solder it in, to give the leads some springiness.
The heating caused by the current inside the diode itself is far more mechanically significant than external heating of the external leads. If there is a problem it will show up due to internal heating of the chip itself well before any problem shows up due to heating of the external leads. However...
Once you're INSIDE the diode package, any difference in the thermally caused mechanical stress due to heating effects on the EXTERNAL portion of the leads is virtually eliminated by the epoxy/ lead bonding...so the "S" shape outside the package doesn't help at the chip/lead interface (and the "lead" interface doesn't actually directly connect with the chip in a way that this aspect would change anyway).
However, the "S" shape in an external lead CAN help reduce thermally caused mechanical stress at the external lead/connectors whether crimped or soldered. However the lead alloy, shape of the "S", and the diameter and length of the leads would also change the forces due to the change in the increase in length as the lead heats up...so there can be a point of diminishing returns.
@@exgenica Perhaps you have more faith in the rigidity and strength of the epoxy package than I have. But if the leads are soldered between two points, in a straight line, and the distance between those two points changes from diode or external temperature changes, the leads can produce large forces on the die bonds. I have attempted to reduce these forces with lead bends and also soldering a pair of brass strips across the leads, close to the package, and fanned them out, as a heat sink, to reduce the temperature swings generated by the diode chip, itself. I worked in industrial electronics, for a long time, and saw many diode failures. I didn't have a semiconductor lab, to perform proper autopsies. But some doable things seemed to help.
@tallwill38 In old tube amplifiers, the tie point strips and tube sockets were made with purposefully flexible, sheet metal terminals, that would flex, and take the strain off the component leads soldered, at right angles to them. The terminals the diode leads are soldered to, in these junction boxes, look pretty stiff, by comparison. And the plastic boxes those terminals are mounted on, change size, quite a bit, between sitting in the sun on the hottest day, and the middle of the coldest night of the year.
I usually do not solder straight leads, I bend them into a bent L and solder the end of the L. having the lead after the bend long enough usually will serve the same purpose as the S bend.
Your reading way to much into this! The reason NASA specs the "s" bend is because their stuff is launched in a very temperate environment, but then goes to space. It's VERY cold up there! Yet, the device has to work in both environments. The small changes from day to night at your location will not make much of a difference! Your NOT sending something into space folks!
Great review. I would have never in a million years guessed that the Harbor Freight Panel would outperform the Renogy.
I tried to make the test as equal as possible and even when I have been messing with them the HF are still putting out better numbers. Not that Renogy doesn’t have good stuff but interesting to see the different results.
You ,me and a lot of others think the same thing
I would
The Half cut cells on the HF panel give it an advantage over the Renogy panels (which aren't bvery good panels to start with)
@@pierremitham2964 I certainly agree half-cut cells allow for slightly higher watts per sq meter, but we're talking about the same wattage rating on the panels, not discussing their size. On the other hand, I looked up the harbor freight panel and it's 986 sq in and the Renogy is 866 sq in. So the Renogy is less surface area with a less efficient design, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the Harbor Freight puts out more actual wattage.
I've had four Renogy 100 watt panels on my 5th wheel roof for 8 years now. Absolutely no problems or issues, including being in two hail storms and traveling over 50k miles. They are great!
Wow awesome thank you for the feedback..😀👍🏼
Thanks Walt, the best advice or recommendations are from the people who have used something for a while.
Looking at the results, you're probably get sub par performance compared to a much cheaper harbor freight set up.
@@MarkusAnthony88 Knowing every single harbour freight product - They would have been destroyed by rain drops - let alone hail. I would like to see an impact test done on these panels
😀👍🏼 I like it…!!!
I purchased 6 harbor freight panels when they had them on sale for only $89 each. Changed all the connectors to MC4. I like the aspect size of the harbor freight. It seems easier to orient on a ground mount. I also like that the Harbor Freight panels have the plastic protectors on the corners.
Yea the plastic protectors are nice if you plan to move them a lot. $89 is a good buy👍🏼
I did the same, 6 panels at $89.99. I think they work very well for the price. Here in Michigan, I typically get about 110 watts per panel on average. I only lose performance on the very hot days. Usually about a 10-20 watt loss. I've had my panels peak at 7.25 amp on a cool sunny day. I would like to get 2 more, but it's disappointing that the price went up.
Wow good numbers. Yea they got popular so price went up some.
I Have 21 100 watt Harbor Freight Panels on sale for $89 on sale n Been Off Grid for a 1year running All of my 30 amp 40ft Park Model Camper Shallow Well Water Pump n My DJ Equipment to for my cookouts n 6000 btu Ac n my Fridge n outside freezer TVs surround sound system n my wife's blow dryers n all my appliances with only 8 101 amp hour a total of 808Amp hours of EverStart Deep Cycle Batteries from Wall Mart at about $109.00 each .
Total of array of 2100 Watts of Harbor Freight 100 watt panels .
I worked for a manufacturer working on high-end prototypes, and a deviation I had to do often was swapping for a more robust connector between the solar panels and the rest of the wiring. It was common for the connectors to be the highest resistance point, thus creating extra heat, and melting the connectors, then eventually shorting and causing further, obvious issues. The fix was adding a much larger connector with larger terminals. The initial engineers expected the original connector to be sufficient, but turned out not to be in real life. Something to think about when swapping connectors. I've always been on the side of don't replace, upgrade, for things like this. Great video!
Thank you. And yes the SAE to mc4 would be a upgrade as they can handle much larger amounts of volts/current going through it. 👍🏼
Thanks for stopping by 👍🏼😀
I bought 8 HF 100 watt panels and installed them on top of my south facing patio cover (4 x 6 inch timbers). I have two arrays of 4 panels each in series giving me 80 volts. These two branches are in parallel. These charge my EcoFlow Delta Max which I use to power my entire house. I am getting 760 watts out of this array starting at 1115 until 1600 or so in San Diego. This is enough to recharge my EcoFlow Delta to 100% in 6 hours. I am experimenting going off grid every other day. So far so good since setting this up in May of this year. I kept the SAE connectors but I removed the aluminum stand arms. Using 2 x 2 alum angle for stationary mount. Very pleased with those HF panels especially when they go on sale.
@Danang Alta yes. I leave the solar line connected full time to.keep it topped off. Using the phone app let's you monitor inputs, outputs. State of charge in real time. I'm really impressed with ecoflow. I run the washer dryer (gas) off it via an extension cord.
Question about powering your entire house. Do you have multiple fridge/freezers, central AC, furnace, water heater, electric stove, clothes washer and dryer, and other electronics? I'm wondering how many panels would it take for all of that?
Being we install solar, its not just solar but a battery back up is what’s going to run all that unless you want run a off grid system or hybrid types DIY and more.
My house is pretty simple,1800+SQ with a 5.4kw solar system. I run pretty much net 0 out of pocket each year. Tried to go larger but city would not let me. I do not have a back up system but plenty of options for when the occasion comes for power. Typical system payback like this about 4.5-5.5 years. Most are about that. 5-7 year pay off.
When the power goes out your solar panels are tied to the grid,so they no longer provide power to the grid spinning your meter back ward so to say. The panels are still making power but no where to go. Hence a battery back up system that works with the solar so if power is out and sun is shinning you are good. As it drains in the night the next day it charges back up again. No you still want to conserve. You can’t burn 200 gallons of fuel if the sun will only bring in 150 gallons if that makes sense.
Many ways to go for back up power. DIY builds or buy a small power station or a gas generator.
@Danang Alta Yes it does. At night it shifts into standby.
@@gingerkittiesfour I have eight 100W Harbor Freight panels facing south in a 4P-2S config. Ecoflow limits solar input to NMT 800W. Later I put up another eight panels same config facing east paralleled into the south array. So as soon as the sun comes up the ecoflow comes alive and starts charging. So 800W early morning and at noon 800W as the sun travels to the west.
Great review. I bought 6 - 100 watt harbor freight panels when they were on sale for $99. Also bought a Bluetti AC200 max and 4 370 watt Santan Solar panels. Ready for power down and retreat living off grid.
Nice, yea if you can get the coupons you can get some deals on these.!! 👍🏼😀
Bluetti ac200max was my best purchase in a while
I also have the same Bluetti power station. I use it for camping and backup power for the house. Great power station and nice size.
So what I'd like to know is is it simple to plug a solar panel into a solar charger and then have a 110 Electric plug-in readily available or do you have to have some technical knowledge about how to connect the solar panel to the charger
@@KC-dr3cg Yes and no. Totally depends on you and what you buy. it is super easy to connect a solar panel to a "solar charger" if both the panel and charger were made by the same company, such as Jackery or Bluetti. To connect a Renogy or Harbor Freight panel to one of those solar chargers may be a bit more difficult, if you have no knowledge of electricity or solar type connectors. Companies that make both solar panels and solar power supplies, make them as true plug and play units, and often have bundle deals. Both companies also make their solar power supplies with built in, 110 electric plug-in, 12 volt, and USB outlets. I own both Jackery and Bluetti, but prefer the Bluetti, as it has a bit better battery chemistry, which makes it faster to recharge, depending on the number of solar panels you get. Side note: Off brand solar panels will often have a selection of different connectors that make them compatible with most popular brands of solar chargers.
Aluminum? Pretty sure that is tinned copper. Not aluminum. PV wire has a lot of strands and feels like aluminum, but it's just how tinned copper with lots of strands feels like.
Good video!!
Will you are correct!! I actually popped the cover plate again last night and checked the wire and you can see the tin coating upon inspection.
I’ll be updating the description and maybe make a UA-cam short just to update everyone.
Thank you so much for the comment and love your videos ..!!!! 👊🏼👍🏼
Stay cool!! Cooking up here in Far NorCal!
@@johnnysweekends oh cool!! I made the same mistake some years ago and am still embarrassed I thought it was aluminum 😂 oh nice! What part of norcal
Hey no one if perfect, I mess up lots of stuff, well I try not to but how ya learn. 🤷♂️😅
Redding, CA. Where all the fires 🔥 are 🤦🏼♂️ lol.
But did you know it’s the second sunniest city in the nation… ??? Crazy right !
My guy
I follow ur channel peace bro from Rasta
We use these 100w HF panels in many places all over the farm. Never had one fail, and most have been up at least ten years. But their $30 charge controller circuit boards tend to corrode rather easily.
Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
Yea the controllers I normally tell people to by pass and get something else. Unless running a real simple set up then sure it will probably do the job.
Helpful tip, treat the controller with Corrosion X and hot glue desiccant packs inside. we use these for keeping our coop cooling fans going and after these small additions we have had no problems! 👍
Cleaner connections, Copper wire, higher amp output, same voltage range, Wow, the harbor freights, if maintained well, outperform brand name panels. How interesting. thank you for the vid. Very enlightening.
Your welcome..👍🏼😀
just reading this comment made my decision, thx.
Yes Harbor freight is well known for its long lasting quality products... lmfao
Good thing HF doesn’t make them. They just supply them.
@@probablynotabigtoe9407 In recent years, they've really been trying to change their image and quality. You can still get cheap junk there, but they also have some really good quality stuff on the shelf now. As for these solar panels... the HF panel is objectively better than the Renogy. Copper wire vs. aluminum (copper is a better conductor but aluminum is cheaper, and price is the only reason to use it vs. copper) soldered connections instead of just crimps (soldering takes longer in production, but crimps are subject to oxidation if not done perfectly, and can loosen over time, especially on aluminum which is not as elastic as copper)
Finally, there's the appearance of the inside of the junction box. The Renogy panel looks like it was assembled by someone who didn't give a f*** about their work- the diodes just shoved in there almost sideways, with bent leads and connections just kind of half-assed. The HF panel on the other hand looks like it was assembled by someone who has pride in their work- the diodes are in there straight, the connections are neat and look good. Literally the only cost cutting measure I saw was the use of SAE connectors instead of... Whatever the standard ones are called. The SAE connectors aren't as weather resistant and don't have positive locking tabs. However, there's actually a good reason to use them here- HF markets these panels to RVers and other people who are primarily planning to use them for charging 12 volt lead acid batteries, and those SAE connectors are a standard connection type for that. They're used on boats, RVs, and battery chargers everywhere.
You had the perfect setup to test how blocking a single cell, or part of the panel effects performance. Like shading the lower 1/4th of the panel. Also another + comment on getting to the point and showing the content. Great video.
I did the shade test and edited it out added like 4 mins and both suffered greatly but the renogy did slightly better like a volt or two more but no watts.
Hard with just a single panel.
But I did 80% 50% 30% 25%
Changed the shade area to go over certain parts of the cells on that string and more and both really did t produce anything unless about 90% uncovered .
Oh and thank you, appreciate it..😀👍🏼
@@johnnysweekends Good video.
The shading thing is kind of tricky until you get how the wiring of the cells works. An individual cell being shaded will take out the entire string due to the protection diodes that will "shut off" a string in the PV to protect against fire in that string.
There's actually a lot to it, but it shows up with those drops you noted.
Look very carefully at the PV and note how the busses are wired to figure out orientation... then block one or more cells on a given string to see the whole string cut out.
Thanks you so much for this review. Straight to the point, no BS. Exactly how these kinds of videos should be.
Wow thank you. Yea I don’t have time to watch that either. But sometimes harder then you think to not just ramble away 🤣🤣🤣
YES
👊🏼👍🏼😎
I was at our Harbor Freight store when they first came out. They were $99 so I bought two of them. They are for backup. I connected them together with hinges to make a suitcase. Heavy but easy to store.
Yes they are great for a mobile build like a suit case to throw in the truck for camping or little power stations
I bought the Harbor Freight panel for $99. I have only used once while dry camping. It did a great job of charging up the batteries on my RV. No regrets so far.
Nice, most times you can always find a coupon for $99 so make it a decent buy.
Thanks for the feedback..😀👍🏼
I am surprised how well the Harbor Freight panel did in this comparision. It also revealed how many panels I would need to power up one roof top a/c for my fifth wheel trailer! That would come to 17 panels!
Well if you can use bigger panels go that route. 200 watts or larger. Just depends on the lay out and how much room you have. And in all honesty running a AC in trailer is expensive and can take along time for pay back. A generator is still cheaper in the long run and you can keep the generator.
Get a 12v swamp cooler. As long as you have water and it's not too humid, it works quite well.
You can run a evaporative cooler on maybe 2 panels, pump needs included.
I have a 100 watt renogy panel that I have had for about 5 years. The glass is perfect but the silicon cells underneath have mostly fractured. It gives out less than 2 amps in full sun now. I am definitely going to replace it with the Harbor Freight panel
they have a 25 year warranty
@@Texasprepper I read the warranty very carefully. It does not cover environmental damage. Clearly this was done by temperature cycling from the environment. I don't know if they will decide to cover it anyway
@@spacecase0 it wouldnt hurt to try.
@@Texasprepper I agree that it wouldn't hurt to try. But I just found out a few days ago and haven't tried yet. I replaced my battery bank and I noticed it when I was testing the entire system.
@@spacecase0 Good luck with any warranty issues on garbage made in cheating lying communist china. Just ask contractors about houses that had cheating china extremely toxic sheetrock. Cost the average homeowner $80,000 to have all insulation, poisonous china sheet rock, all the wires ,copper water lines and plumbing faucets.
Thanks
You’re welcome 👍🏼😀
Just incredible technology. I am just blown away how far solar has progressed, and it's getting better and better! Thanks for sharing!
I agree it’s getting way better. Imagine 5 years. This size panel will be double output. And bi facial may really be pumping a lot more as well.
Thanks for the comment and thanks again for watching
@@johnnysweekends I still use the panel I bought in 1982. The only big change is price went down.
See and people ask, well how long with these even last.
Some of the original designed solar panels are still putting out power today. 👍🏼
Yours is a great point. They still work
I have bought both, and the Harbor Freight panels give me a little more volts and amps, but I also like the Renogy panels!
Nice thanks for the feed back..😀👍🏼
Aluminum degrades fairly quickly when wet. I lived at a couple of different campgrounds who had used aluminum wire on the meter boxes and there were major problems either white corrosion at connectors or anywhere it was exposed to moisture although it was run in plastic conduit there were problems
Depends a lot on the grade of aluminum. Aerospace and marine grade alloys are very corrosion resistant and typically very strong.
@@g.4279 true but what grade is usually used for wire applications. many alloys of AL would be too brittle to be used in a wire form so perhaps the marine grade is great at corrosion but terrible when stranded and carrying current. I honestly dont know, but carrying current is one of the largest factors on increase in oxidation rate. They use AL wire for large transmission lines so we know it can be a cheap material to delivery large amounts of energy but what grade they use vs this panel, and how much flex they expect it will need to tolerate will determine how exotic they can go. would be interesting to know for sure.
@@bretmohler9719 high voltage lines are made from 1350 aluminum a grade that is at least 99.5% pure aluminum with limits for certain elements that could reduce conductivity. I doubt many aluminum alloys would be cheaper or easier to work with, so the lower voltage lines are probably at least reasonably similar.
@@garethbaus5471 ok good info. So then looking at the conductivity chart it has a 62 while a marine grade 5083 has a 29. So the corrosion resistance is prob not worth a 50 percent loss in conductivity. I didn't look up anything about how ductile they are compared to each other.
Alright now you guys are going beyond me lol.
Uhhh now I have to go read ..😂👍🏼
I really appreciate your presentation, easy to follow, no personal opinions, straight shown facts. Great job, hopefully others can learn from your format.
😀👊🏼
I was a maintenance electrician for 32 years, I have nothing good to say about aluminum wiring, and aluminum w/crimp connectors should be outlawed. Nice vid, thank you.
Your welcome but I did update the description and the renogy is tinned copper. 👍🏼
I’m no fan of HF but one who deals a lot with with electrical, HF stepped up their game.
Second independent review I've seen comparing these same panels, with the same result. I may have to take back everything I ever thought bad about HF.
One interesting comparison that might cost a few bucks is a destructive test (how well they would hold up in a hail storm). Thanks OP for the thoughtful review and time it took to publish it.
Thank you appreciate the feedback.
And, well it may seem like a good idea! 😁👍🏼
Depends on size of the hail. At about golf ball size, all bets are off reguardless of manufacturer. Also hardness qnd density of the hail ball makes a huge difference. For this reason, you will have a hard time finding a correct answer to that.
I agree it would be more for fun and to see how much they can sustain versus say a normal residential panel
Another excellent episode! In general, the quality of all solar panels has improved over the years. Also pretty likely HF doesn't make their own panels, and there aren't a huge number of manufacturers out there. Might both come from the same plant.
Also note that IR thermometers can get very inaccurate if not held close enough, and if not held at something close to 90*. They can also produce very different and inaccurate readings if the surface finish is shiny vs matte. For comparisons, just put a piece of black electrical tape on both objects to remove that source of error from reflectivity.
Yes the solar panels are definitely getting better from every manufacturer as the tech gets better. And correct harbor freight does not make there panels no do a lot of companies it’s all sourced out from a major supplier. I don’t know how much of HFs stuff is made by them if any. It might all be made from a company who they contract with.
And thanks I’ll try the idea on the next run of testing to see if there are some differences in temp accuracy 👍🏼😀
@@johnnysweekends I’m guessing Chÿna made.
Both products say China like 90% of the stuff we buy now 🫤
Good, America years 2076 , 300 hundred years old.Hope this environmentally friendly Solar system can help all Citizens.NEED to learn basic skills to install .Thanks sharing.
This is a godsend for Hurricane season here in New Orleans. I might even make this my new side hustle . Thank you for this amazing video.
There is always a side hustle and small solar hook ups or back up battery stuff to run internet and a fridge is huge..👊🏼👍🏼
I just tested both the Harbor Freight and Renogy panels again with sun out very bright! The Harbor Freight are running a little over 100 watts, 5.2 Amps, and 20+ volts, and the Renogy is running a little over 80+ watts each, but they are not side by side, so it is not a complete accurate test, but the Harbor Freight panels are testing a little better wattage!.
Yea the HF do really well. Surprised really.
Thanks for the feed back.
I see a lot of people here commenting on the Renogy panel being better because they "know" it will be better over time. Perhaps that's true but until the theory is tested it remains merely an opinion. Plenty of guys use HF air tools without issue for years while doubters claim their Snap On's will last three times as long. Again, perhaps that's true but at three times the price what's the difference? Obviously these panels don't have that big of a price difference so it may be a wash. Also, the type of copper is a factor. Copper is a better conductor but if not OFC free or very well insulated it will corrode and become brittle and then snap after several years. But that can happen to aluminum as well.
“at three times the price what’s the difference?”
You don’t have to waste any time procuring a replacement. And since prices are always going up over time-even when inflation isn’t high-your second and third ones will cost more, so it will have been _less_ than three times the price in the end. And that’s not even getting into the extra trash from needing to buy two more.
Most of my tools are Rigid,Milwaukee & Dewalt love them & stand by them. But for many reasons I've had to run out to quickly buy a tool. Harbor Freight was close the first time I needed to grab a hammer drill quickly. Had it several years now & no problems. Other tools I've bought there cordless drills, grinder, screw gun & air comp. All have made their money & stood the test of time. They are a bit louder than my other tools & the small compressor takes more time to fill. But have no complaints & not worried About a $300 multi tool falling off staging,ladder or roof when the rookies use them on the job.
Somethings are great for a one time job and are expected to be thrown away. But they keep working and eventually a few years later your like, huh this stupid thing still works good. 🤷♂️🤷♂️😅👍🏼
Aircraft and spacecraft always use crimp connections because they are more reliable than solder. Solder can crack and break. That Harbor freight panel works surprisingly well! I use a Baldr 120 folding panel to charge my 2 Bluetti's. I have a EB70 and the new EB3A. LOVE the new display on the EB3A!
I to am surprised how well the HF panel does. And they use copper wire as opposed to aluminum.
@@johnnysweekends The do seem excellent.
Yea if you buy with a super coupon then totally..👍🏼
The marine industry also uses crimp connectors. If you use soldered connections on a boat/ship and it's liable for inspection, it won't pass.
Wow didn’t know. Thanks for the info..👍🏼😀
This video sold me on the HF panels. I installed 2 of them on my skoolie last weekend after picking them up on sale for $89/ea. They work great. Thanks!
You’re welcome 😀👍🏼
I would have lost that bet.
I've had a couple of Renogy panels and I figured they'd win. Nice job.
Thank you.!!! Will see what the 6 month and one year look like.😀👍🏼
I’ve had numerous soldering classes in the USAF and after. They always say to start with a good mechanical connection, then solder. They both should crimp then solder.
Awesome thanks for the info. I have heard this as well and has always made sense to me..👍🏼
That is my thinking as well. Especially if application is mobile like RV and subject to vibration.
Air Force Vet here too. We are such Perfectionists. Have to be!
Aluminum is usually crimped because it's more difficult to reliably solder to. Copper is usually soldered (except where mechanical stress is expected, because the point where the solder stops wicking into the copper wire forms a stress point and increases the chances of failure)
Interesting test. I'm impressed with the HF panels meeting and exceeding the Renogy ones. Thumb up.
Thank you, and yes was surprised 😀👍🏼
I bought one of those harbor freight Thunderbolt 100 watt panels for my Bluetti solar generator and it works so well that I bought a second one and for less than half the price of most other brands.
Awesome thanks for the feedback..😀👍🏼
Dokio is another good brand, available off Ali Express, often with US stock for 5 day ship times, and is typically around $75 for a 100w panel.
You gave a ideal . Cooling the panles down to produce more power . The optimal temperature for electricity to travel is absolute zero. So the best places to have solar when the sun is out is the south and north pole . When you combined heat and cold togeather you get condensation.
A very good test. Regretting not buying the harbor freight....
Excellent job, thanks. I'll take copper and solder over crimped aluminum any day. I've tested solar panels and never seen one at spec like that. Good to know.
Right even at a decent temp as well. I’m curious when it’s 65 degrees ..👍🏼
Cool to see the HF panel actually putting out 100 watts. Impressive.
Where ever they got these from most are having very good results. And the little legs are a nice touch especially for a suit case set up.
@@johnnysweekends I assume now a final deciding factor would be size, shape, space +/-
Yup, always try and get the biggest panels you can for the project and see what would fit best.
The solder vs crimp debate is easy. If it moves crimp, if it's stationary solder. When a stranded wire is soldered it becomes solid. If it flexes often stresses can cause the soldered wire to snap. Boats, car, motorcycle wiring gets crimped for me; with a coat of oxguard for corrosion
Yeah, I used to solder almost every terminal until they started breaking just below the solder point. As you said, it turns a bit of the wire into solid core and fatigues quickly. Stationary or anchored wire, yeah soldering is good.
However, I crimp almost everything now that's not on a circuit board. Whether it's wire ferrules, crimp connectors with a good ratcheting crimper, or ring terminals with a hydraulic hex crimper. I use some dielectric grease or deox-it spray on the wires before crimping to make sure the connection between wire and connector stay clean.
I have the harbor panel for over 5 years and not any have failed off grid living love it .
Wow awesome..! Thanks for the feed back 👊🏼😀
Thank you for showing me how well that Harbor Freight solar panel did.....
Your welcome we will see how it does in a couple months and 1 year..😀👍🏼
Thank you for making it easy to understand for someone who doesn't know much about the solar panels. I have portable panels but I'm thinking about adding one panel to trickle charge my house battery. This video helps me a lot.
Your welcome glad I could help..😀👍🏼
If I ever build a solar system, which I most likely will, I will find the best conducting wire I can. It will be crimped and soldered and it will be a full run without any connections from the roof to the first component. I suspect a thick gauge with fine strand copper would be best, but I don't know because I haven't researched that part yet. I will definitely be finding out.
You don’t want fine strand but medium will do fine. And depending on the run or how big 8 or 10g will be fine unless you plan on a larger home system then you’ll want to adjust accordingly.
technically the best normal conductor of electricity is silver but running wire out of silver gets expensive fast
@@ferrofeles2063 after buying 80ft of 2/3 copper cable I’d probably faint if I got a bill for silver lol
You're pretty much right on with your plan
If you're worried about voltage drop, get an MPPT that can take 500V to get as many panels in series as you can. A single string at 8-9A won't have much drop at all even with a few connections in between the panels and MPPT. Tin coated copper is your best bet. It's more about retaining conductivity than starting out higher. And I wouldn't solder anything, a good hydraulic hex crimp with some dielectric grease will be just as good without adding brittleness that soldering brings.
I used to solder wire connections until they starting breaking just below the solder points.
Thanks for the thorough tests. I have wondered those 2 panels compare. I have 6 of the Harbor Freight panels that I purchased when they had a coupon that let you buy up to 4 (they let me get 6) at $89. I use them for my travel trailer with a Victron charge controller and also for my Bluetti E55 and AC200P. I changed some of them to MC4 connectors and left the sae plugs on 2 of them and use adapter cables. The Bluettis each came with cables to use MC4 for input. They work great in series or parallel and in good sun consistently give the rated output, occasionally a bit more. I am very impressed with the quality and performance of them.
They really are impressive how well they do. I wish they made larger ones lol.
WOW... that's great! May I ask what coupon did you use? Where did you get that? I would like to get couple of the 100 watts panel from HF. Thank you. Cheer!
@@friedrice5292 It was a coupon I got in my email from them. That was several months ago. I did see a coupon last month for $99. If you go on the HF website they usually have the specials listed.
Copper wire and the solder connections are superior to the aluminum wire with crimped connections. Also the gasket seemed to be seated better.
I beg to differ.
Apparently he is now saying it was copper, not aluminum.
I said it was coated copper along time ago. Only a couple days after video came out. But no one reads the description or pinned comment..🤷🏼♂️
Good test, I agree the soldered connections shows how well the solder connections are on each cell.
Thank- you!! This is the basic solar advice channel I need to pull it all together. First time you have popped up on my feed, but now I'm subscribed. Was very glad to see your test of the Harbor Freight panel matched up closely with my meter readings.
Now I need to watch your other vids to see why I'd need to change the connectors.
Glad I could help. Trying to help people get started but explaining it in simple terms with out much of the technical stuff.
Glad you found me….and feel free to ask questions from me or anyone else to help or get advice you need.
I try to answer as many comments as I can but sometimes they come in so fast it’s hard…😀👍🏼
After working with electronics, off and on, through my life, I was surprised, recently, to find out that solder is a less than ideal conductor of electricity. That is why you rarely see it used in house wiring. It creates a point of resistance. The one thing with solar panels, though, is also the consideration that moisture may get into a crimped connection causing corrosion, causing resistance or failure.
Yea the nicest solar panels residential type are actually potted so you can even get to the connections which is fully water proof. Digging that out is no fun.
Like anything James, the quality of the solder is what makes or breaks a good connection and conductivity. Using a lesser grade / lower quality solder will of course impede current and voltage flow versus a higher quality solder and that is one with more tin in it.
Of course when you compare solder, which is mostly tin and lead to metals like copper and aluminum, it's a worse conductor, but the difference is small. And that's an apples and oranges comparison. It's an invalid comparison because the alternative to a solder joint is a junction between 2 separate pieces. As you mention you can get corrosion at junctions like that, but even without visible corrosion and without any moisture, practically all metals, except maybe gold and platnium react with air to form an oxide layer. In fact, this is the reason some metals, like Aluminum appear to not corrode. Aluminum appears to stay shiny, because it actually very quickly forms a very thin, hard layer of clear aluminum oxide that protects it from further corrosion. However, that oxide layer, will add resistance. So, a soldered joint is definitely going to be superior to any kind of crimped joint, unless you use gold plated contacts. The reason it's not used in house wiring is it would add cost and make repairs, modifications, or upgrades much more complicated and costly. Also, the actual thickness of the solder joint between the two contacts is going to be very thin, so even if the solder isn't as good a conductor as the copper, the overall difference is negligible and as stated is far superior to any other kind of junction. So, soldered is definitely the way to go.
you can improve that with dielectric grease and a heat shrink cover. By the time that fails, the panel is toast.
Some high temperature silver solders can be almost as conductive as copper, but they are pretty much never used for electrical connections.
As a retired electrician 14 awg copper carries more load than aluminum of the same size. The Rinergy may do better if they increased the aluminum wire to 12 awg and soldered all the connections. Good test though thanks.
Thank you..👍🏼😀
That's not copper in the HF panel, it's copper clad aluminum FYI.
@@Trialnerror how could you tell usually I gotta look at the tip of the conductor it wasn't clear in the video to me
@@Trialnerror I believe copper clad aluminum (CCA) should be outlawed. It's junk and won't last long at all in the elements. It's getting difficult to even find cat5 or cat6 network cable that isn't CCA. It works at first then it eventually breaks connection.
Have you had any success using CCA?
Tom were you IBEW?
One difference you didn't cite is the higher voltage for the HF panel; the same wattage at higher voltage will have less line loss, because line loss is largely a function of number of amps being pushed through
yep=i^2 * R
While true, they both have the same rating, just one of them isn't so honest.
I get what you're saying but a volt or 2 will give you negligible results the amount of resistance in the wire for 1 or 2 volts would probably result on fractions of a watt lost
We can discuss all the details of circuit resistance, half cell designs, etc. But given the fact, that the HF panel is 986 in² and the Renogy is 866 in² alone counts for an increase in output even if everything else was equal.
@@scottkolaya2110 you're assuming equal efficiency. The nominal specs of the Renogy is 18.6v 5.38A, while the HF is 18v 5.56A. Those are both 100.1W, despite the difference in size, meaning that _nominally_ the Renogy panel uses more efficient cells.
I bought the renogy 6 years ago still going strong used everyday. 400w package
Nice..!! They are good panels and many people have them getting really good results. And they even cut the price a little which really make it a better buy now. When the price was almost equal then the HF really made it more equal.
I just purchased a Harbor freight 100W panel and am very satisfied with it. Great video
Thank you!! And they are still doing great! 😀👍🏼
@@johnnysweekends I bought the whole package one components at a time as I could afford it and I'm not disappointed with this product. Thank you for being forward with the information and not hype it up. We need more content creators like you.
Wow thank you.
I try to deliver exactly what I find. Sponsors don’t like it as much but who cares 😂👍🏼
A 1 year follow up would be nice. These things tend to degrade the most during the first years and Renogy is supposed to be the better brand.
I will be doing one soon..👍🏼😀
MigMig Johnson - To give you an idea, my 100W Renogy panels have been on my camper van roof for three and a half years. I am getting over 94W per panel using a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/20 which has a peak efficiency of 98%. So the panels are approx 4% (4W) below spec after three and a half years. I hope that helps.
Thanks for the feedback always good to get more user feedback for people to read. 👍🏼😀
I have a similar HF looking HSQT panel. These panels, at least the HSQT are lighter and easier to move. So I made it a point to not buy longated panels in the future. When I move them for storage, I just tie them together. And I can carry each set on one hand. So I'm moving four instead of two longated panels. They are really almost like carrying a kit.
Sounds like the solar suit case so made out of the Hf panels. You should check out the video. Cheap build
Fascinating! One of the next steps in my pickup build is to 'solarify' the camper shell. Nice to know HFT still offers quality! :3
I.think HFT has increased its quantity in the last couple years.
Totally, well at least on some stuff..👍🏼
@@johnnysweekends True. I LOVE their wrenches and socket sets!
I haven't had great luck with their power tools (bought years ago), but they are cheap and do last long enough to justify the purchase. I'm curious about their new Bauer grinders... they look well made. :3
@@jamesgizasson Bauer and Hercules are good products, way better than the old Chicago Electric junk.
@@michaelwillman5342 Nice! Thanks for the input. :3
Hi being a electrician for over 20 years and doing electrical work the Harbor freight gets my vote!...I think it's made better and the other would mostly likely not last as long FYI and degrade quicker aluminum also expands and contracts more than cooper causing loose connections and when it was used in residential wiring caused house 🔥 fires so the only use it mostly now in wiring to feed service panels breaker boxes and I still had to check and tighten the lugs as a preventative maintenance because loose connections would over heat damaging the equipment and causing safety issues..
Stranded Cooper is the best because it has more surface area for the voltage and current to travel with less resistance (Ohms) which aids the efficiency of this harbor freight solar panels...
Thanks for the review!
I love the editing on this you're doing an amazing job! The bus is coming out so beautiful! Ashton you are such a good sport you all make me laugh. Till next time, God bless.
Thank you, and I’ll tell Austin the bus is looking great 😀👍🏼
I need to find out who Austin is first 🤔😁
As solder heats up and cools down, it will eventually crack. You can see that where VRMs, which get really hot, eventually fail at the solder joint. So crimping where they did isn't a bad thing at all.
I have yet to see a solder joint fail. I soldered wires under my vehicle 15 years and 100000 miles ago.
@@2pist I just resoldred a 32 year old Bose bass module where the VRMs contacted the heatsink. About 80% of them had the telltale circular cracks in them. Wires probably will be fine. The problem is where the joint gets hot and cold over and over again.
@@2pist By contrast, I had a '93 honda civic that developed a crack in a solder joint going to a relay on a PCB. The ambient temperature / engine temperature changes were enough to cause it to conduct or be open circuit. Took a while to find that....
The more the indifferent the materials the more likely the solder is to crack and it depends on the type of solder. The Cummins 24 valve engines had issues with circuit boards losing contact internally from the heating and cooling with the Solder.
So the best would be a crimped joint and then soldered it sounds like!! 6 of one, half dozen of the other!!
Soldered connectors can get microfractures due to heat cycles and vibrations and crimped is resistant to that and so is usually preferred.
Crimped can get problems with corrosion due to the weather especially with aluminum so I'd prefer soldered for these.
why not crimped copper?
Just solder the crimped connections.
@@2pist
Finally, someone thought about Both!
Couldn't you spray galvanized on them to prevent corrosion or cracks? Or will that cause performance issues?
@@2pist This is considered bad form. When properly formed, a crimped connection is superior to soldered in literally every way - including corrosion resistance, as a proper crimped connection is gas and liquid tight. It's also lower resistance than soldered.
Soldering a crimped connection can actually weaken a crimped connection.
Well prepared, straight forward presentation! Thank You for giving us just the honest facts! Well done!
Thank you and thanks for watching 👍🏼😀👊🏼
Good review. I actually have both brands. 4 Renogy 100watt "flexible " panels and 4 Harbor freight 100watt "glass" panels. The Harbor Freight out performs the Renogy panels. These are set up in two strings of 400watts. One powers my Inergy Apex (with TWO Flex batteries), and the other powers my "Power Cart" with 4 6v 240Wh batteries in series/parallel. Separate solar controller (Epever 40amp) and power out to a Renogy 2000w pure sine wave inverter/charger.
Any glass panel typically is going to out perform a flexible almost every time. The flex panels do have there place but just need to know the output will be about 5-7% less than a glass panel.
I have four of the really old 25w panels from HF. They have been charging a small lead-acid battery and powering lights in our shed for at least 6 or 7 years, with no trouble at all.
Yea those are the older ones. The amount of companies coming out with solar panels is really getting crazy…!! Glad to see them still working and thanks for the feedback..😀👍🏼
Staggering the cuts in the wire helps prevent shorts. ( one wire longer than the other when doing a splice)
Also, I use heat shrink tubing now whenever splicing wires. That small investment pays huge dividends in reliability and just the appearance of the splice.
I repair medical equipment, and when I replace motors, I stagger the cuts just as you recommend (I have seen splices short together when the tape or shrink wrap moved or failed).
Great comparison, but I wonder if the slight difference is because the Renogy ran a bit warmer, without air circulation behind it?. Keep up the good work.
I do t see how only a couple degrees could effect it. Even with me still comparing them just leaning on a wall the Hf is still consistently putting out more watts. It’s possible though.
Nice test, and good to see HF making progress,. But I got consistently over 100 watts at high noon with my Renogy panels when they were new.
What were the temps..?
Would love to see simultaneous reading with identical resistors as load. There is too much changing to actually compare. and ...
watts IS amps x voltage!
I was guessing from the beginning that this was a renogy commercial or something but this was quite fair and Harbor Freight coming out on top except in price. thank you.
Thank you appreciate the feedback. 😀👍🏼
I cannot comment on the Renogy panels as I have not used them to any great extent, but I *Have* used the slightly older Harbor Freight panels for the past decade and a half and they are still performing VERY well... I have used them under many trying conditions and have had very little drop off in performance over the years... then again, I also perform proper maintenance on them every year by cleaning and checking ALL connections of my 8 panel array. They are also taken apart and put into storage for a couple months every year with the associated wear and tear of transportation and of the connectors. I will qualify that I have not specifically compared individual readings to the original spec, but I have not had any noticeable reduction in use time on a daily basis. I am very happy with the cost versus overall lifetime of those panels as I have only had to replace one that got broken by a(n) (un)lucky hit during a severe hail storm several years ago.
Wow that’s awesome! Glad they are still working and I’m kinda surprised as they were really a budget panel for sure.
Thanks for the feed back ..!😀👍🏼
I'm not going to say anything negative about the Renogy that I've never used... but I've been using the Harbor Freight panel to keep my Jackery 500 going for about 2 years and it's always worked great. The max charge I've ever seen is about 65W... but I think that has more to do with the Jackery itself than the panels because when it's plugged into normal shore power it charges in the mid 80's.
Thanks for the feed back, and renogy does make a good product but really surprised at how well the newer style HF did.
Some major points not covered: With Renogy you get a warranty with replacement if it fails. None with HF panels. The more smaller cells and bus wires means more points of failure over time. You paid $129 + another $5 for the MC4 cables for the HF panel for only slightly better performance and no warranty.
I also think as others have said you restricted the air flow to the Renogy that probably accounted for the small difference in output. Also test them under low light conditions and I bet the Renogy do better. Larger cells capture more light. Also what gauge wire on the panels and stranded or not makes a difference. HF panels I have seen use recycled cheap stranded copper and less gauge and will fray and overheat.
I have had Renogy 100 watt on my off grid cabin for over 8 years now with no problems. I suspect over time you will experience failures on those HF panels. If you rely on solar everyday for years like I do you want panels that will hold up and keep working. Go with the Renogy!
Ask any one about Renogy warranty and they will all say the same, poor and need help bad, very bad. I have mentioned it to them because I like there products but they need help in the customer service and warranty area.
HF it’s literally drop off and grab another panel. But the extended warranty and you get even more. I don’t have much issues if I buy the extended. But I don’t take much stuff back.
The air restrictions people are taking way to literal. Both panels are are outside at same time acclimated to the ambient temp and a couple degrees and a little breeze if any won’t change the output of a heat soaked panel. Sorry but it won’t make a noticeable difference. Sure 15 degrees yea then we could see a gain over a set time.
I don’t like one panel more then the other. Just showing what they do when new, then soon we will see what does better after 20% degradation kicks in. Both have been outside since new in the sun and I use both here and there to charge power stations or test things.
I've found over time the Renogy panels hold up better than the harbor freight. My friends went with the harbor freight brand and I went with Renogy, in the beginning they edged me out but after a couple of years the Renogy have pulled ahead. They have mostly maintained their efficiency where as my friends HF have dropped quite a bit.
Are they using these new thunderbolt mono panels ??
Curious as I’ll do a 6 month and 1 year but even then 3 years seems to be the bigger test.
Wow such a scientific review!!!!
Honestly, that sounds about right for anything HF. Not knocking them, to me their niche has always been less expensive products for things I won’t use a lot or am willing to risk losing.
Harbor freight use to sell Lincoln Electric, Ingersoll Rand and some more name brands years ago.
Zero maintence users versus not. You are trolling Renogy over H.F. in spite of obvious quality differences.
Great review! And surprising too! I guess HF has been improving their products on the down low. Keep up the good work!
Thank you appreciate that..!! 😀👍🏼
Very well done......not long winded, just down to the basic facts! ;-)
Harbor Freight $89.99 this weekend (June 11 '23)
I saw the sale price again !! 😀👍🏼
At 2:47: crimps can be more durable than solder; solder joints can crack with time and vibration. Aluminum is not preferred however, aluminum oxides are not conductive so if the wire corrodes with age the joint can become bad. At 2:55 the diode solder joint in the middle looks less than ideal, notice how the solder is around the wire and not smoothly flowed to it, for lack of a better description. It looks like the joint wasn't heated enough during soldering, and/or they were skimpy on flux. Also for both cases using a pfet here instead of a diode would give better efficiency (less loss to heat).
The soldering on the Harbor freight is sloppy, but, as another poster stated, aluminum " cant" be soldered. Actually, it can, but it takes extra heat and some skills that most companies dont want to pay for.
The Aluminum wires will corrode quickly.
Don’t even bother with anything lower than 350 watts for a panel
You can’t always throw a 350 on a Rv or truck camper or smaller sail boats.
All depends what you need
Sloppy? Pretty doesn't help performance. Aluminum wire is copper coated for solderability.
@@2pist Not all wire is CU coated AL. I would rip that shit out and solder in some TXL or SXL if I were using those chinese panels. I think the conclusion here is both of those panels are trash. If I had something where solar were important, I would double the design N+1, and make sure it's a reputable brand with a warranty both on function and performance like an LG. See SAE J-1128 for reference.
Copper wire is infinitely preferred over aluminum, especially when you consider LONGEVITY. Unless those aluminum connections are well sealed, they will oxidize, over time & exposure. The choice for me is CLEAR.
Agreed. I don't trust crimp connectors. If I was using this panel, I would solder all the connections.
Also, that solder connection on the right side of the Renogy panel looked pretty sketchy. I'd probably re-do that, too.
@@tomwilson2112 As would I. Nor do I trust "weatherproof" claims. I weatherproof to MY standards, not some Factory.
@@tomwilson2112 I am going to experiment with the HF panel. I'm thinking of using Reflectors around the panel, to increase the amount of light hitting it, at any given time. If my guess is correct, it should increase efficiency overall by as much as 5%. I suspect that on overcast days, those reflectors will increase output as well. I am doing small scale experimenting, before doing anything larger. I just wish we could get those 34% panels sold ONLY in China. The US syndicate (Gov) blocked sales in the US.
I like how fair you are with the panels same angle time temp
Check out the newest review of one year on them 😀👍🏼
Quick and to the point 👍. We're still trying to figure out what we want for a solar system at our off grid cabin and this helps. Think i may go with the harbour freight panels. Thanks.
If you can fit larger panels then it will be much cheaper per watt.
I'm a Electrician and HVAC Technician, copper is always better than aluminum they use aluminum now only for main power lines to panels or the service drop... aluminum expands and contracts when used for a conductor which causes loose connections and why aluminum for house hold receptacles or outlets is no longer used because they have been the source of many house fires when they use aluminum wire for lighting and receptacles in house wiring!... special anti oxidation and splices with aluminum to copper are used on the house's that still have aluminum wiring....and also a special outlet is sold for this also to combat the issue of aluminum wiring getting loose connections and over heating causing fires or over heating also instead of pushing the wires into the clip holes in the back it is always much better to put the under the screws minding the direction the screw turns to have the wire bent in the same direction to ensure a tight connection that will stay tight longer over the test of time ...many electrical companies and contractors though use the back clip in hole because how quick and convenient they are to install and complete the job ....time is money!...but a good soldered connection always is better just remember to use the proper solder or flux for the electrical and in areas that have water /weather etc. Use proper weather proofing of electrical even bugs or mice etc.moisutre all need to be kept from the electrical..... ...keep them dry and clean...when I was working on panels that had circuits over heating. We used Lazer thermometer to check temperatures of the electrical connections or even thermoheat video meter which is more expensive but can pinpoint all the connections quickly that are overheating. ..have a good day y'all! Stay safe and respect the power of ⚡⚡⚡ electricity ....it only takes about 2 amps to disrupt the beat of a human ❤️. Many batteries can be well over 100 amps and if you ! Used welding with stick electrode and grounding clamp to what your welding and it grounded...could stick weld metal but would be dangerous as it would be a direct short on the battery and it could overheat or explode.. from hydrogen gasses...so under some circumstances even a 12 volt batteries can be dangerous enough to kill someone!
Work safe and fare thee well!
That is not Aluminum.. It's Tinned Copper Wire. Used in High grade Audio car stereo systems...It resist oxidation better.
I’ll have to double check and see if it’s a copper. I’ll cut a mc4 off and strip it.
@@johnnysweekends You don't have too. I can see the very fine strands of wire. Only Tinned Copper gets that...It's to prevent Corrosion from water or moisture getting in.
The commercial property I worked at for thirty years was originally built with all aluminum wiring back in the late 1960's. Every year we had to go to our main electrical room and tighten all the lugs because, as Randall said, the aluminum wire expanding and contracting created this situation. If we failed to do it, we would have aluminum wiring arching causing burned lugs and loss of power. By the time I left there all aluminum wiring was gone, the cost of which was depreciated, we have eliminated a potential for fire, and we saved the annual expense of having an electrician go through the property tightening the lugs in the panels. For electrical wiring, whatever or wherever the use, it's copper only for me.
@@boblinda1738 That was only used in the 1950'e. Due to the lack of Copper.During the rebuilding of Europe after WWII. As copper was expensive to mine ...And only America had the capacity to supply huge amounts of materials for that rebuilding...
And to stop that. You used Nolox...As the problem was the lugs were Aluminum as well..Which they still are today in new service panels..
Hell the Main service feed to your house is Aluminum wire. As that is what the electrical company install from the transformer..
Now you want o go have fun. Go replace Knob and Tubing. It's run the same way. Free air no insulation..Wrapped around insulators..Like the power company runs high tension lines..
Cells are arranged in parallel strings, and each series string can only deliver as much current as its weakest link. So if a bird craps on a single cell (blocking its exposed area) which drops its max amperage from, say, 1.5A down to 1.1A, the entire string will be limited to 1.1A. So more strings in parallel would be more resistant to a single cell's upset.
I would love a little more explanation of that.
@@glenwaldrop8166 Think of connecting 10 straws together and pumping water through 'em. If 1 straw is half-blocked, it blocks the whole chain of 10. So with more parallel straw-chains, blocking 1 has much less of an overall (negative) effect.
@@joeschmo622 I can see how a weak link in a circuit is a bottleneck, just can't see why 4 cells at 1.5A would be limited by the 1.1A circuit *unless* that 1.1A circuit was limited internally, not by the limited exposure to sunlight. That's where I'm hung up. Why?
The current rating is a characteristic of the PN junction in a photovoltaic cell. It is not changed by crapping on the cell. What is changed is the voltage output of the cell itself. When you have a string of cells in series then the current is limited by the "weakest link" and the voltage is the sum of each cell. Crapping on one cell will reduce the summed voltage but not the current capacity.
@@rickr530 No. *Current* is a function of light intensity on the cell. Take a 2A cell and cover half, and it'll only produce 1A. Voltage will be nearly identical for both cases.
Insolation (with an 'o' not 'u') is measured by *shorting out* a solar-cell so that V=0, and measuring the current. This all but eliminates V as a source of error.
The I-V curve of a solar cell at a given irradiance is a fairly *flat voltage* of about 0.5V, up to the point where the current "maxes out" and stays there, while voltage drops to 0. Peak power is the upper-right corner of that curve where I and V max out.
I’m really happy to see this video because I just bought the same set up. Thank you for your time and effort.
Your welcome and thanks for stopping by 😀👍🏼
I haven’t kept up with electricity technology but remember a rash of mobile home fires in the news back in the mid. 70s where it was determined that aluminum wiring was ruled the common cause.
I’ll be double checking just to make sure..👍🏼
Great content. My experience with the older 5BB Renogy is that after 3-5 years they will develop snail trails and/or cracks. All four did, so I have switched when ordering NEW panels to HQST and 100w panels are now at $79.99 and with a discount coupon they are $72.56 and are also 9BB panels, free shipping and no tax.....additionally all of my panels are ground mounted in Michigan with temps between -20 and +100F and at times heavy snow(12 inches).....enjoy and keep the content coming.
Yea they tends to short between the connecting bus bars which then those cells can be shorted and dead and maybe even kill most the panel.
Had some residential panels like that
Oh and thank you 👍🏼😀👊🏼
@@johnnysweekends No, thank you! Also, one other tip for trouble shooting a bad panel. With no load, check for 21+ voltage for a 36 cell 100 watt. IF you only see 10-12 volts, then you have one of two issues.....either a diode went bad or as in my case, the solder lifted just under the metal where the three diodes are soldered onto the plate. IF the reading is 0V then both diodes are both sides have lifted and broke the connection. The fix takes maybe 5 seconds, far less time than it took for the solder iron to heat up.
Thanks good tips! 👍🏼
I have purchased 4 HQST 100w panels over the last 2 years. Appear to be the same as Renogy at a lower price point of $89 each. They have worked flawlessly.
😉😁👍🏼
One thing that you may want to look at before deciding anything about the material used in the wiring. You cannot call something copper or aluminum because of its color. There are copper plated aluminum wires and tin plated copper wires. Scrape the strands and see if anything else exists under a suspected plating before you decide what the wire is. =)
I did update the description and comment section that it is tinned copper 👍🏼
Great idea thx!
Didn't expect that outcome but glad you showed us the truth
You’re welcome and so far they are still showing better numbers. I will do a 6 month and 1 year update..👍🏼😀
Most Excellent presentation! Almost ordered a Renogy panel to go with rest of Renogy system. So glad you posted this. Many thanks!
You’re welcome ..👍🏼😀
The Renogy crimped their wire connections because you can't solder aluminum wire. It would be better if they used copper wire in their units.
You certainly can solder aluminum wire, but it's impractical at this price point. Of course, Renogy is clearly aiming at a low price point here, with the "quantity over quality" mindset and they'd likely crimp connections anyway for the assembly savings. If they wanted, they could use copper-clad aluminum but there's nothing wrong with properly spec'd aluminum wire. Nor with crimping, if done correctly, and it would be mechanically more sound.
The real issue is that it's a panel designed to stay at a $99 (now $89) price-point, and that means trimming every corner you can. Obviously a bit more gets you those trimmed corners back, but then it's not a $90 panel any more. The question is, does that extra $20-$40 get you 20-40% more performance. Is the performance difference from the Renogy due to crimped connectors and two feet of ~16awg (copper equivalent) wiring, or the cell assembly and quality? 14awg aluminum for 24v at 6A for 2 feet looks like more than is needed anyway.
It’s much more likely that the renogy panels are using tinned copper. No one uses aluminum wiring any longer. Crimps are a better connection than soldering for this application
IPC standards state a solder joint provides a better electrical connection than a crimp joint.
Plus, the results speak for themselves. The HF panels are the clear winner and are built better.
@@saltysteel3996 I've had 2 Renogy's sitting on my camper for 2yrs now in the Texas sun with no issues.
The HF is not the clear winner as it has a lower performance per dollar. That's the only scientific data that's been presented. The video review, including your opinion, is only speculating that the HF will last longer than the Renogy. You can't base a winner off pure speculation. Put these outdoors for 5yrs, compare performance and durability, and then you can deduce the winner.
@@jonmccauley6490 that does depend on use case, though. If I'm not mistaken unloaded solar cells in sunlight causes the silicon to degrade. So the quality of the silicon and the %load used from the panels will effect their lifespans as well. I'd think for something like a house with very good electrical management, the renegy is probably the best due to $/W and it being a best use case.
Just thought I'd mention the different ventilation of the two panels. One of the two is getting somewhat better movement of air around it, which could affect performance.
solid point
The difference in air and temp is very minimal especially for the 5 minutes they were sitting there.
They both are already acclimated to the ambient air temp outside.
And a 5 degree difference between panels with have minimal to no change in out put numbers. 20 degrees for sure..
To this day the Hf is still putting out better numbers but a 6 month and 1 year degradation test will be coming along with wear and tear due to elements like yesterday and today with temps in the 114-115 and direct sun..👍🏼
@@johnnysweekends interested to see this 6 month and 1 year later review
So am I it will also be cooler after this crazy heat will see if we get some cracked cells or bus bars. I think they will be fine but who knows.
@@johnnysweekends I just subbed, solar tech is exciting. Thanks for spending your time and money on testing this stuff and sharing your knowledge. I don't think most people realize it yet but you're doing a public service good here.
Would be interesting to see how much replacing the Renogy wires would effect its performance.
I don't expect more than 5% improvement but who knows...
Exactly minimal to none but long term tests are coming …
I'd say it would be tinned copper, not ally
All DC connections, gauge, and mostly wire length are tremendously sensitive to voltage drop. In years past I have wired many kitchen high intensity under cabinet transformers and circuits. (With LEDs that tech is mostly gone now.) But I had to calculate load vs line length for every section of the kitchen. Every 8 to 10 feet of cable length required a higher gauge cable. Edison ran into the same difficulties. He needed a generating station every 2 blocks. The old DC cables in some of the older Boston buildings are of an epic size. Check it yourself. What is the voltage drop for 0 feet,, 10 feet, 20 feet, 30 feet,, etc. And keep in mind total cable length from a roof top to a controller, storage location can be substantial,,, 80 to 100 feet would not be unusual. Too small a gauge wire would very likely degrade the performance substantially. Aluminum vs copper always requires one gauge larger for the aluminum in residential wiring.
I prefer copper wire, and soldered joins. A win for the Harbor Freight panel/ I also have owned a few Harbor Freight panels, they always did a good job.
Nice thanks for the feedback..😀👍🏼
At first I thought you were going to do nothing but read specs. Good test. I plan on buying a couple for my boat, I'll be honest, the Harbor Freight ones will be easier to mount on the rails. Glad to know there really isn't that much of a difference between them.
Lol yea that would have been a lame video just reading numbers lol.
But yea the newer panels from HF are way better then those cheap units they had a few years ago.
The only thing missing is a watt per sq. inch for each panel and a watt per dollar for each panel. That's the true test as the limiting factors for solar installers are rooftop space and budget. Also, my experience with HF merch is that they appear to work fine at first but quickly crap out in some way. Usually soon after the return period is up.
I’ll be doing a 6 month and 1 year degradation test when the time is up soon..👍🏼😀
Agreed! Engineering is so advanced these days they can build things to break at very accurately timeframe. It’s almost scary how good they can do this. But it’s about power efficiency to cost ratio and more importantly what you need for power vs what you want. However, you’re better off buying cheaper now because electric technology is about to hit it’s stride… especially with electric vehicles. Tesla got the ball rolling with car’s and now you have all types of legitimate electric vehicles… from skateboard’s,bike’s to motorcycles and just about anything that ran on gas can be solar powered. What’s limiting EV right now is range, but what’s going to bring EV (electric vehicle’s) into the fold as a legitimate replacement is when the next generation more advanced battery cells hit, along with the latest in solar panel’s. Theoretically, you wouldn’t need to charge your vehicle as long as it got some sun. Crazy how technology is only limited by our imagination
Love it !
The thing I'd be most interested to see is to connect the two panels to two identical loads and measure the total watt-hours produced over the course of a day. The amount of power a solar panel generates is very dependent on the angle of the sun and any cloud cover, so it's important to test both panels over the course of a full day, right next to each other, to minimize the number of variables.
Agree it’s finding something that will provide the exact same load and be consistent.
I just started the voyage into solar. I just bought Bluetti AC200P and 4 HF panels. Didn't realize that the Bluetti required 35v min to charge. So I need to connect in series to increase voltage. Can't do with SAE plugs so I need to replug to MC4 or replace with different brand panels.
Ahh yes correct you’ll have to switch out so you can run in series for a higher voltage. It’s a easy swap…
Check out my video in the link to swap to mc4 connectors…😀👍🏼
Please do some long-term follow up findings on these panels. Glad I found this video. Very good information!
6 month and 1 year will be coming..👍🏼😀
I have 4 of those exact harbor freight panels. After investing in 4 lithium batteries, my little shop that was simply not practical to run grid power to gives me fantastic performance. I use the shop on the weekends to strip cars and other things for scrap. I can run a sawzall all day turn on the 12 volt LED light system and work on into the night. I couldn't be more pleased. I have a box truck that is next on the list for a similar system.
That’s awesome I may do a shed build not that I need one but I could make a man cave and hide out with all this extra junk 🤣👊🏼👍🏼
What brand / 'size' lithium batteries did you pair the HF panels with?
@@wmluna381 renogy 100ah ( about $2000 USD for 4 of them) I actually have capacity to add more panels, but I've got to nickel - dime this, and the batteries were a large investment for me. They charge throughout the week and provide plenty to do what I need on the weekends. I think it's well worth it. The wife might disagree!
@@mr.hanger Thank you for all the details and taking the time to answer my question. It is appreciated!
I may not have the same Renogy panel you tested, but my Renogy panels have tinned copper wiring, which is a step better than plain copper.
What panels did you get?
@@johnnysweekends It's hard to identify which renogy panel is which :) I have five, all of which have 36 cells in a 3x12 grid, but my first panel is slightly wider and shorter than the other first. Started with their 100watt kit in Dec 2018: RNG-KIT-STARTER100P-WND30. In fall 2019 I picked up another 100w panel which is described as a "compact design" - it was supposed to match the kit panel, but it did not. Then I picked up 3 more of the "compact design."
Most likely that’s what they are. Aluminum is not common and would most likely break
Tinned copper wiring is appropriate for marine applications
@@aaronlifschutz8358 tinned copper is appropriate for every application, including marine.
Nice video and thumbs up to HF to make a affordable panel that gives us experimental guys something to work with. I bought the 100 watt four panel version and found that it was a pain to work with. So I bought the single 100 watt panel for ease of use. Would really like to see you compare the harbor freight to HF panels and see if there is any advantage, being both are the same price.
Thank you. And sounds like that might be a good idea. May have to add that to the list later.