My first thought was - how are you going to add air to the valve you’ve put glue all around - sounds like a good way to injure your mouth! I’d have been gathering up some pine/spruce boughs very early on in your scenario!
Bummer. The Achilles heel of backpacking. I’d say that one goes a bit past the boundaries of type two fun. An inflation bag or mini pump might have remedied that situation but either way, you bail or you’re up all night maintaining. That’s a good reminder for everyone though about checking your gear out beforehand! Thanks for sharing your sucky adventure.
Did you think about using your sit pad and backpack underneath you for insulation. One under your butt and the other under your back. Just sleep on top of the gear with the 1/8 inch foam pad in between you and the gear to smooth out your sleep area. When you blew your pad up the first time, placing that big chuck of tenacious tape over the entire valve to seal it completely may have worked to hold the air in. Just a few suggestions that you could test out since its after the fact so in the future you can use it as a survival technic in case of an emergency should arise. Good video on lessons learned to always check all your gear before going out.
Had that happen to my wife's sleeping pad while mountaineering. I swapped with her then flaked out the rope in my sleeping space and placed the deflating pad on top. It was enough to get through two uncomfortable nights.
Tayson, were you using the Shadowlight pack? Doesn't also use a small "sit pad" piece of foam where your back meets the pack and isn't it removeable to use as a sit pad? You think you could have pulled that out and supplemented the 1/8 in pad where your body started to touch the ground to mitigate the air loss? I'm just thinking about all the things you had that could have increased the amount of insulation you could have brought to the problem. Like you said, you weren't in a "survival" situation, but it might have made the suffering you experienced a little less. Good lessons learnt.
Hey, I was at my daughter's house at Christmas in the snow and I did the same thing. Since you have enough loft for the cold you needed to take all your other gear including your packet to create a thicker pattern under you. I had a 30 degree bag with a SOL bivy. This is two season gear. I took my OV lofttech off and positioned it under my hip and shoulder and laid on the left cardio recovery side. I had the 1/8 inch pad, rain gear, lofttech, and pack. I had on Patagonia grid base layer, and dry tee, OV new Ventus hoodie, fleece hood and smart wool gaitors. The temperature reached -19and I was able to keep the cold off the shoulder and hip. This allowed the layering make it through the night. I had did this just as you to see what options could the two season pack system handle. The ground insulation is the key. I have been limiting my pad to 3-6 ounces for the test.
Great vid. It really does show the importance of a good pad. I just did a gear test a couple weeks ago your Summit Blue inside a GI Goretex Bivvy with a Thermarest pad had me literally sweating at 12 degrees. This was just under a tarp lean too. It actually snowed and drifted under the tarp and onto me while I slept and didn't know it till waking up. I will never go winter camping without that Goretex Bivvy.
Amen bro! If air can get in, it can leak out. On my last camping trip, my fancy inflatable pad leaked and try as I might, I couldn't find the hole(s) to patch. Now I'm back to my trustee folding foam pad which has the added advantage of multiple use such as a seat, wind screen, for shade, etc.
Could cut a bunch of fir boughs and pile them up and put the pads on top of them. Would get you off direct snow. Especially if conditions were not favorable to hiking out. With that said, that is one reason I like hammocks with a good under and top quilt. As long as you can mitigate the wind if there is blowing snow.
Definitely happens to the best of us. On a side note, once that valve situation is fixed I like where y’all put the valve in the center. Should make for easier adjustments In the night. The side ones are ok but the center will keep you from having to roll to one side or another
Your plan to use summer gear in winter conditions...FAIL ( at least it will prevent other foolhardy hikers from following your example ) Your failure to have a back up foam mat....FAIL Your failure to have proper gear repair kit.. fail. Ýou have to remember the old adage...FAIL to prepare..prepare to fail. Your safety and comfort are proportional to the gear you bring.
Backpacking 101, don't blow up a pad in extreme cold with your breath. Not saying that was your initial cause of failure this particular instance but it didn't help and is a well known no-no.
I’m just amazed you didn’t accidentally glue your beard to the valve. Yes you should check all your gear before going to the field old Army training tip. Always have a plan b with a bug out plan too. Have fun and stay safe.
I’m def no expert, but when my thermorest failed , patch failed, all failed, and it was well below freezing, I put everything I had under me, including pack and shoes, etc., and am still alive to post a comment on this channel,
Next time you make a repair like that, don’t blow up the pad. The pressure can affect the glue, pushing on it so it can’t set. Also try to keep the spot warm, the cold can also be an issue.
Silicon RTV perhaps. They likely repeat inflated the bag for max R-value....thus compromising it. IMO, layered wool blankets exceed any air bag for RValue
Good point on checking gear. I have extra gear because I up graded. I am selling my gear so I take out my my tents and check the poles, seams and holes. I already replaced the bungee cord of my tent poles. I am waiting for warmer weather to seam seal. If not using, it is best to take out your gear at least twice a year and check for fare, ware and tear. Also airing your gear out is a must. Nothing worse than jungle rot. and you have to pitch the gear.
i have 2 of your pads (for the last season and change). I had one of the valves do something similar on my last trip, but after the 4th time the flap seemed to seal correctly. Waiting to see if that happens again...
Another option, since the valve was near the top and the mat was full length: treat it like a dry bag. Get as much air into the mat as possible. Roll the top of the bag getting the valve into at least three folds. Use gear tape or cordage to tie the sides and pull them towards the middle the way you'd snap a dry bags ends together. Then sleep as though on a 3/4 bag. Obviously follow the other suggestions to get other insulation under you. Your emptied pack, downed branches (please don't strip trees of boughs for a failure in planning as someone else suggested).
If you were committed to staying the night, unload your pack and lay on it. Theres some good insulation there from conduction that gets forgotten a lot.
Glad it worked out Tayson. Good lessons learned and communicated as well. I think we are all guilty for forgetting to check things when we know we should. Nate
Yes in an emergency that is what I would have done...anything I could find like pine bows, then put the 1/8" foam pads on top with anything else I had. backpack, the backpack pad, any extra clothes, ect. I could have survived, no doubt, just decided 4 hours of quality sleep was better than 8 discomfort...In a different scenario though that's what I would have done! - Tayson
I just started backpacking a little over a year ago. Borrowed equipment for our first hike, did the tent and pad on the first trip and it was the most uncomfortable night of sleep I have ever had. No snow, but a bad sleeping pad, with hard cold ground. I immediately switched to a hammock and bought the Mummypod for our next trip. The next three trips were better than sleeping in my bed. Its a pretty tight fit when zipped all the way up, but way better than sleeping on the ground.
Same exact thing happened when I tried one of the OV pillows, on the first time I used it. Instantly went back to the Nemo philo elite luxury. Maybe consider a different valve. But I'll be honest, that one experience alone has steered me away from using OV gear. My gear is super important to me, and I hate having to leave in the middle of a trip bc a piece of gear failed from seemingly normal use. We like watching you content though. Thanks for the honesty, that can definitely be commended.
Sorry that happened to you with that valve. I don’t always check that my OV Long/insulated before use. I’ve always trusted it and has never failed…until it does. Thanks for the r&d✌️
Glad you had a warm retreat to go to. You could of snuggled up with one of the other guys. :) you may not of put it in the video though. Sleeping pad would be there worst gear to break when out in the cold. Mu fist thought was to take your thick food package and shut it in the valve and see if that would seal it. I keep 3ft of gorilla tape and tenacious tape in my pack just in case. I never used the liquid stuff.
13:30 a double sided air mat would have saved the night. Sea to Summit has ideal R-value mats for winter. I attest 5 winters camping with mine. Has never failed.
Things can happen to all of us on the trail and when things go wrong it’s how ur keep composure and think through issues to lower ur risks to keep yourself safe. Well done.
Jason I’m sure you will get this straightened out no doubt… I’ve purchased items from your company before and have not been disappointed. Ps. If you need someone to test some of your gear I could and would greatly appreciate it lol carry on your on the right track
I bough that 45L recently and the waist belt was too small I need to exchange it to have the pack usable for a trip in three weeks. It’s my first backpacking trip and pack. The support department said they couldn’t guarantee anything. I’ve only had the pack for a couple days and I’m not trying to get a free belt. Could someone please help?
Never mind. I had a pretty bad support experience so I’m just going to return the pack. They never even sent the belt and the employee just said they were short handed. Well, so is everyone else. I just wanted an outdoor company that I was investing in to be invested in me getting the right gear and getting outside. Super disappointed.
Duct tape bro. Also, another reason to not use breath to inflate. Its warmer air and when you let it sit, it will cool down and lose energy (Aka volume in the pad). Better to use the cold air and heat it up. I think. I could very well be very wrong.
Backpacking is all about learning and getting better and smarter with each trip. Probably made the right call hiking out but how concerned were you about skiing out at night? That also seems like a risky proposition.
You're lucky you were close enough to your car you could make it back there for the night! That could have been disastrous otherwise. Glad you made it! I need some of those down booties...😊
Duct Tape! Bring a little duct tape for repairs. It may have held the valve down. Or it may have not, it's a lightweight option.
My first thought was - how are you going to add air to the valve you’ve put glue all around - sounds like a good way to injure your mouth! I’d have been gathering up some pine/spruce boughs very early on in your scenario!
Bummer. The Achilles heel of backpacking. I’d say that one goes a bit past the boundaries of type two fun. An inflation bag or mini pump might have remedied that situation but either way, you bail or you’re up all night maintaining. That’s a good reminder for everyone though about checking your gear out beforehand! Thanks for sharing your sucky adventure.
One solution that crossed my mind is spruce boughs dude! Make like a logger and selectively cut a bunch of soft spruce limbs and make a bough bed.
Did you think about using your sit pad and backpack underneath you for insulation. One under your butt and the other under your back. Just sleep on top of the gear with the 1/8 inch foam pad in between you and the gear to smooth out your sleep area. When you blew your pad up the first time, placing that big chuck of tenacious tape over the entire valve to seal it completely may have worked to hold the air in. Just a few suggestions that you could test out since its after the fact so in the future you can use it as a survival technic in case of an emergency should arise. Good video on lessons learned to always check all your gear before going out.
Stupid plan,
Had that happen to my wife's sleeping pad while mountaineering. I swapped with her then flaked out the rope in my sleeping space and placed the deflating pad on top. It was enough to get through two uncomfortable nights.
One thing about backpacking, you are either having fun, or you are getting a free education.
You know what doesn't lose air? A Foam pad.
Why? You are not that cool with your beard and wind breaker.
Tayson, were you using the Shadowlight pack? Doesn't also use a small "sit pad" piece of foam where your back meets the pack and isn't it removeable to use as a sit pad? You think you could have pulled that out and supplemented the 1/8 in pad where your body started to touch the ground to mitigate the air loss? I'm just thinking about all the things you had that could have increased the amount of insulation you could have brought to the problem. Like you said, you weren't in a "survival" situation, but it might have made the suffering you experienced a little less. Good lessons learnt.
Hey,
I was at my daughter's house at Christmas in the snow and I did the same thing. Since you have enough loft for the cold you needed to take all your other gear including your packet to create a thicker pattern under you. I had a 30 degree bag with a SOL bivy. This is two season gear. I took my OV lofttech off and positioned it under my hip and shoulder and laid on the left cardio recovery side. I had the 1/8 inch pad, rain gear, lofttech, and pack. I had on Patagonia grid base layer, and dry tee, OV new Ventus hoodie, fleece hood and smart wool gaitors.
The temperature reached -19and I was able to keep the cold off the shoulder and hip. This allowed the layering make it through the night. I had did this just as you to see what options could the two season pack system handle. The ground insulation is the key. I have been limiting my pad to 3-6 ounces for the test.
Great vid. It really does show the importance of a good pad. I just did a gear test a couple weeks ago your Summit Blue inside a GI Goretex Bivvy with a Thermarest pad had me literally sweating at 12 degrees. This was just under a tarp lean too. It actually snowed and drifted under the tarp and onto me while I slept and didn't know it till waking up. I will never go winter camping without that Goretex Bivvy.
Sounds like a great test and a fun time :) - Tayson
That’s why I never have as never will carry an Inflatable. Foam for life
Amen bro! If air can get in, it can leak out. On my last camping trip, my fancy inflatable pad leaked and try as I might, I couldn't find the hole(s) to patch. Now I'm back to my trustee folding foam pad which has the added advantage of multiple use such as a seat, wind screen, for shade, etc.
I really appreciate seeing you have failures I'm gonna buy some of your stuff because of it
Thanks for the support.
I like good old foam pads. They are bulky but way more dependable.
Could cut a bunch of fir boughs and pile them up and put the pads on top of them. Would get you off direct snow. Especially if conditions were not favorable to hiking out.
With that said, that is one reason I like hammocks with a good under and top quilt. As long as you can mitigate the wind if there is blowing snow.
Definitely happens to the best of us. On a side note, once that valve situation is fixed I like where y’all put the valve in the center. Should make for easier adjustments In the night. The side ones are ok but the center will keep you from having to roll to one side or another
✌️👊
Your plan to use summer gear in winter conditions...FAIL ( at least it will prevent other foolhardy hikers from following your example )
Your failure to have a back up foam mat....FAIL
Your failure to have proper gear repair kit.. fail.
Ýou have to remember the old adage...FAIL to prepare..prepare to fail.
Your safety and comfort are proportional to the gear you bring.
Backpacking 101, don't blow up a pad in extreme cold with your breath. Not saying that was your initial cause of failure this particular instance but it didn't help and is a well known no-no.
I’m just amazed you didn’t accidentally glue your beard to the valve. Yes you should check all your gear before going to the field old Army training tip. Always have a plan b with a bug out plan too. Have fun and stay safe.
The benefit to that cold is your condensation just freezes instead of dripping onto you.
I’m def no expert, but when my thermorest failed , patch failed, all
failed, and it was well below freezing, I put everything I had under me, including pack and shoes, etc., and am still alive to post a comment on this channel,
Next time you make a repair like that, don’t blow up the pad. The pressure can affect the glue, pushing on it so it can’t set. Also try to keep the spot warm, the cold can also be an issue.
Silicon RTV perhaps. They likely repeat inflated the bag for max R-value....thus compromising it.
IMO, layered wool blankets exceed any air bag for RValue
Good point on checking gear. I have extra gear because I up graded. I am selling my gear so I take out my my tents and check the poles, seams and holes. I already replaced the bungee cord of my tent poles. I am waiting for warmer weather to seam seal. If not using, it is best to take out your gear at least twice a year and check for fare, ware and tear. Also airing your gear out is a must. Nothing worse than jungle rot. and you have to pitch the gear.
Couldn’t you just cover the valve in tenacious tape, it would ruin the pad but who cares.
i have 2 of your pads (for the last season and change). I had one of the valves do something similar on my last trip, but after the 4th time the flap seemed to seal correctly. Waiting to see if that happens again...
Have you considered making hunting and fishing clothes?
Wouldn't you bring back up gear if you're gear testing?
Another option, since the valve was near the top and the mat was full length: treat it like a dry bag. Get as much air into the mat as possible. Roll the top of the bag getting the valve into at least three folds. Use gear tape or cordage to tie the sides and pull them towards the middle the way you'd snap a dry bags ends together. Then sleep as though on a 3/4 bag. Obviously follow the other suggestions to get other insulation under you. Your emptied pack, downed branches (please don't strip trees of boughs for a failure in planning as someone else suggested).
I really feel for you in this video! Thank you testing these prototypes so we don't have to!
Why not go with some bush craft and make a insulation layer with tree branches under the mat?
If you were committed to staying the night, unload your pack and lay on it. Theres some good insulation there from conduction that gets forgotten a lot.
Glad it worked out Tayson. Good lessons learned and communicated as well. I think we are all guilty for forgetting to check things when we know we should.
Nate
I would have stayed out there just because I wouldn’t want my wife to make fun of me when I got home
My brain when right to cutting a pile of evergreen tree bows
Is that the new OV sleeping pad coming soon?
Quick tip: That´s why some duck tape shoule always be part of your base equipment. Weighs almost nothing and helps out in situations like these.
Tape is a good thing to wrap on your trekking poles.
Thanks for the video. In an emergency case, could / would you have used pine branches and laid on them? Or possibly your pack?
Yes in an emergency that is what I would have done...anything I could find like pine bows, then put the 1/8" foam pads on top with anything else I had. backpack, the backpack pad, any extra clothes, ect. I could have survived, no doubt, just decided 4 hours of quality sleep was better than 8 discomfort...In a different scenario though that's what I would have done! - Tayson
duct tape would've helped with this.
Where is duck tape where you need it
Thanks for the pillow I love it!
Glad you are enjoying it!
One layer on the bottom is worth 2 on the top
That’s a rough situation. Thanks for sharing it. All to often we only see the perfect trips. It’s kind of nice to see the bad ones too.
Glad you enjoyed it! Things definitely don't always go according to plan.
Or get some branches to sleep on next time
Stop the music please
Tenacious tape 👍
Note to self. Never become a winter gear tester. 😬
Got my 1/8 inch on the way. Saw gossamer gear drop theirs today too. Of course I stuck with my OV gear addiction.
Thanks Brandon! We are working on getting ours back in stock as fast as we can! Glad you got yours ordered quickly!
I loved the fact I can use my store credit. If you aren’t a member you should join ASAP!
It happens sometimes. Good thing you weren’t too far away from the car. 👍
I just started backpacking a little over a year ago. Borrowed equipment for our first hike, did the tent and pad on the first trip and it was the most uncomfortable night of sleep I have ever had. No snow, but a bad sleeping pad, with hard cold ground. I immediately switched to a hammock and bought the Mummypod for our next trip. The next three trips were better than sleeping in my bed. Its a pretty tight fit when zipped all the way up, but way better than sleeping on the ground.
Next time, just lay on your beard!
Next time..
3:04 ??
Same exact thing happened when I tried one of the OV pillows, on the first time I used it. Instantly went back to the Nemo philo elite luxury. Maybe consider a different valve. But I'll be honest, that one experience alone has steered me away from using OV gear. My gear is super important to me, and I hate having to leave in the middle of a trip bc a piece of gear failed from seemingly normal use. We like watching you content though. Thanks for the honesty, that can definitely be commended.
Sorry that happened to you with that valve. I don’t always check that my OV Long/insulated before use. I’ve always trusted it and has never failed…until it does. Thanks for the r&d✌️
Thanks Tayson for your integrity most companies would not show a real live R & D process. How did the rest of the gear perform? Take Care
Question..would a couple of foam pads work in that type of environment? Or does it have to be the inflatable type?
Glad you had a warm retreat to go to. You could of snuggled up with one of the other guys. :) you may not of put it in the video though.
Sleeping pad would be there worst gear to break when out in the cold. Mu fist thought was to take your thick food package and shut it in the valve and see if that would seal it. I keep 3ft of gorilla tape and tenacious tape in my pack just in case. I never used the liquid stuff.
13:30 a double sided air mat would have saved the night. Sea to Summit has ideal R-value mats for winter. I attest 5 winters camping with mine. Has never failed.
Great video Tayson…awesome information..always check your gear before you head out in extreme cold weather…or after you lend it out…thanks for sharing
It’s unfortunate that you had to bail but this is why I like hammocks because I don’t have to worry about leaks or popped pads
4:27 It's not really summer gear if you don't have the bungee mod on your headlamp.
Things can happen to all of us on the trail and when things go wrong it’s how ur keep composure and think through issues to lower ur risks to keep yourself safe. Well done.
Jason I’m sure you will get this straightened out no doubt… I’ve purchased items from your company before and have not been disappointed. Ps. If you need someone to test some of your gear I could and would greatly appreciate it lol carry on your on the right track
I bough that 45L recently and the waist belt was too small I need to exchange it to have the pack usable for a trip in three weeks. It’s my first backpacking trip and pack. The support department said they couldn’t guarantee anything. I’ve only had the pack for a couple days and I’m not trying to get a free belt. Could someone please help?
Never mind. I had a pretty bad support experience so I’m just going to return the pack. They never even sent the belt and the employee just said they were short handed. Well, so is everyone else. I just wanted an outdoor company that I was investing in to be invested in me getting the right gear and getting outside. Super disappointed.
Maybe having goose down everything screwed you more than the pad did 🙃
Duct tape bro. Also, another reason to not use breath to inflate. Its warmer air and when you let it sit, it will cool down and lose energy (Aka volume in the pad). Better to use the cold air and heat it up. I think. I could very well be very wrong.
Great point!
Backpacking is all about learning and getting better and smarter with each trip. Probably made the right call hiking out but how concerned were you about skiing out at night? That also seems like a risky proposition.
There wasn't much of a concern, the moon was bright and the trail was level.
You're lucky you were close enough to your car you could make it back there for the night! That could have been disastrous otherwise. Glad you made it!
I need some of those down booties...😊
The down booties really make a difference!
@@TaysonWhittaker I just ordered me a pair and one of the 1/8 foam pads. 😁
But why!?
My cynical side said this is for views
What are the mittens you talk about at 0:40 ?
Shit they obviously were not for winter camping.