I'm guessing your already aware of this but the Klymit V channels are the reason for the odd Rvalue ratings. They are designed to work in conjunction with the insulation on the bottom of your sleeping bag. Like you said, most of the insulation on the bottom of your bag is compressed and worthless when you lay on it, on most pads. The V channels allow the bags insulation to loft up filling in the gaps creating a higher Rvalue. I'm not saying it should be 4.4 Rvalue, but it's definitely going to be warmer when used with a sleeping bag versus a quilt or a sleeping bag with less insulation on the bottom. We have several Static V insulated ultralight pads. Used them for years. Great pad for the money as long as you understand it's limitations. Lots of great info in the video....👍 Cheers!
shouldnt that be the case with every sleeping pad that leave space on the bottom? like also the sea2summit ones? Is this really a significant effect? The R4.4 pad dropped to 1.9 right?
I’m a hammocker, but sometimes in the winter I sleep in shelters on the floor with my Klymit Static-V insulated, with just a quilt. My latest 3 overnights it got down to 20F and I slept great. I do agree that a little bit more width would be nice though
@@toesockoutdoors3627 Yea. I've slept on the insulated V ultralight with a quilt down into the upper twenties with a slight chill creeping in around 4am. I did wear my puffy but I was fine. Of course, everyones cold tolerance is different. I consider myself just slightly on the cold sleeper side of the fence.
You will not be cold with a -15 bag and a pad that thick. It's all marketing bs. Years ago, people used to sleep on nothing but a foam mat and they were fine, yes,even in winter. Wonder what the R value of foam is? 0. Well, it worked.
You are 100% correct about the channels and how they work with a sleeping bag. This working principle does not work for those of us that use quilts. There is no material to fill the channels and you will freeze your behind off trying to use a quilt with any of the Klymit pads.
Another tip is the sleeping bag work as a thermos. Put something (you) cold inside and it takes a hell of a lot more time too heat up. Some push ups and knee bends (getting some body heat flowing) speeds up this time. Or you can cheat, fill a bottle with warm water and throw it in the foot end. Kind regards a soldier, that hates too freeze. In Norway.
I agree, work up some heat before you get in and the bag seals it in, jump in cold and inactive and your body won't release enough bodyheat to warm the air trapped around you. A nice hot drink just before bed is also just the ticket.
Reminds me, city person from Germany, being surprised by snow in Yosemite. We did jumping jacks until out of breath and rubbed our bodies with a cloth until hot. Bonus point: looks funny and you are exhausted (but happy and warm).
I'm 79 and been camping since 1953 . Still camping. Tried many systems including my dad's 'army' blankets. We've been using REI pads for about the last 12 years, and I think they're about the best for the $$. Similar to the Thermarest but varying thickness as needed by the human body. Thicker at the shoulder-to-hip area and thinner at the knees and feet. They roll up nicely and self inflate in less time it takes to set up an e-z tent. Sorta pricy, but worth it for all the reasons (truths) in the video. Maybe wet, maybe buggy, maybe even too hot.. Never too cold. Yet... THX, Bob p.s. If you're manually blowing up a mattress of ANY kind, do it before drinking ANY alcohol. It eats seals. Don't ask how I know. B
That sounds so interesting, you must have witnessed so many sweeping changes to how camping is done. Would you mind telling me a little more about what changed the most over your camping career?
@@jakubswitalski7989 Being in my late 60's I can add a couple of things. People didn't bring cell phones, chargers, solar panels, or equipment for YouTubing. We went as light as possible. People even took tags off of clothing and tea bags to save weight. Some even drilled holes in their tooth brushes. The little canister stoves came out in the 80's which helped with boiling water or heating things up.
Everyone here probably knows this trick, but I love to share it because it really saved me a night of misery. I was backpacking with a friend of mine and an unexpected cold front blew in and I was not prepared. My friend was a cold weather camper and asked me if I had a Nalgene bottle with me. He had me put my jet boil just outside the tent, boil some water and dump it in my bottle, and put it in my bag. It would keep me warm for 2-3 hours and then when I got cold again I would unzip the flap reheat the water and throw it back in my bag. Kept me from freezing my berries off. Hope this helps somebody.
I would use a stainless or aluminum water bottle with a really good seal, fill with boiling water. Place inside a stocking and into the foot of the sleeping bag. Toasty all night!
I came to the comments to add this. I’ve used it in moderately cold weather to just pre heat the bag. By the time it cooled down, I had the bag good and toasty. Works best for me at my feet.
@@mortsnerd5100 Also good for drying your gloves if they got really wet during the day. Drying slightly moist clothes inside the sleeping bag is ok, but anything beyond slightly moist is miserable. Only works with overnight temps around 0 inside your tent. frozen iced tea is a bit too iced.
Here's my advice: Try out your new gear in your backyard first. Set up your tent, pad and bag in your backyard, or somewhere where you have easy access to shelter, and try to spend the night in it. Better to find out your gear is too cold, too warm, or too uncomfortable to sleep in when you're just a few feet away from your bed.
I do this with all of my kit too, my kids love it because it means we do backyard camping just to try out the new stuff. New camp food, cookware, blankets, sleep pads, tents, tarp set ups, etc. They get adventure, and I get safety lol
A reflexive car windshield cover is also a lightweight option also to put under your pad also.. when that gets trashed just make a few coozy out of it.
Getting comfortable at night and working out what's important to YOU is a huge camping game-changer. I nearly binned backpacking altogether because I didn't like single skin tents, restrictive sleeping bags, stuff-sack pillows etc. I now have a two skin tent, a Thermarest Questar and the Hikenture pillow and my base weight is still only around 10kg.
For every layer above you, you should have two layers below. All winter campers should be using a liner and a gore tex bivvy bag. Canadian army routinely camps out in the coldest arctic weather, our sleep system is a ground sheet, an air mattress, a bivvy bag, two down filled sleeping bags, and a liner and optional ranger blanket (poncho liner). It is important to sleep in nothing but your underwear so you don't sweat - sweat kills. The coldest I have been out is -60°C in the arctic and was comfy.
I disagree. I have been in Finnish army special forces and we gave arctic warfare training to US troops also, but I learned the most after the army. Bivy is many times bad idea, that can make you swetty. And putting more clothes on you is in many situation a good idea. I usually sleep with my wet gear on, and dry them this way to next day. There is alot of tricks people don't know and nobody talks them. When sleeping more than 100 nights in a year outdoors, I had the opportunity to test shitload of wild ideas.
@@caide notice I said Gore tex bivy bag. No survival expert recommends wet clothes in a sleeping bag. In fact they recommend against it. Also wet clothes in a sleeping bag results in a wet sleeping bag. The feathers get wet and lose loft thus insulation resulting in a loss of heat, and who wants to sleep in a wet bed?
@@dingo5208 Yes it is not usually good idea. Surviving is a different game than having trips in winter and having fun. When the game sets easier, it is not surviving anymore. It's a lifestyle. If my sleeping set is in the limita, I will not do that drying of course. But usually me sleeping system is with more warmth, what I need. Then I can dry my clothes. And when the system breaths well, I don't have any plastics, the moist goes through the sleeping bag and to the air. Same system I dry clothes when hiking. I put wet clothes inside my jacket. These skills are very handy when we are out week or two and make longer trips backcountry skiing.
With longer trips, the weather can change from side to side. I have some trips where I had some days +5 Celsius with rain and then quickly after that -25 celsius. So situations are very different every night and tool box for different tricks are usually handy.
@@Codzilla71 Why not. Of course with complete wet, but what you get in winter trips. I did it last weekend again and no problems. My clothing was dry in the morning.
Experienced winter camper from Quebec here. Best trick: place a 1cm thick closed foam cell sleeping pad, custom cut to fit, INSIDE your -15C rated mummy sleeping bag. Place your regular inflatable sleeping pad or another 1cm closed cell sleeping pad under your sleeping bag. If you wish to double your under-bag insulation: lay approximately 3-4cm of spruce/pine/fir fronds under your tent. Ensure your tent/sleep area is not on frozen ground (5-30 cm layer of snow is perfect). However: I sleep in a tarp lean-to for winter conditions and lay a short tarp on top of the evergreen boughs; just use the sleeping pad inside my mummy bag - that's all (the open fire reflects the heat - very toasty).
When is on a field problem in the Marines in Korea. It was January 1973. It got down to -81 wind chill. We were a winter insulated 10 man tent heated. We had those military sleeping bag. They are very good at keeping body heat in, too good. People complain about getting sweaty. I had brought a military blanket. We were sleeping on cots. So what I did was folded the blanket in half put it on the cot and used my sleeping bag as a blanket. I didn't get sweaty and slept great.
@purplpen it depends on how thick a blanket your talking about. Some of the larger ones? Yeah, they're heavy. But the smaller ones are actually pretty light. There are also wool sweaters, long johns, and socks too.
I like that you desribe that the sleepingbag isolation on the Bags is much thinner than on front. This fact made me order a handmade spb with the perfect filling to my needs...
Don't forget that you can amplify the warmth of your bags, pads, etc, if you're in an area that has evergreens. Adding layers of spruce or juniper boughs can make a massive difference. Also, adding spare clothing in the foot of your sleeping bag while wearing wool socks will also increase your comfort. If you have hand warmers, or water bottles, use them inside your sleeping bag too. Simply heating some snow and pouring it into the water bottles while warm will help.
I am currently employed at a outdoors store (I just unload and stalk the selves) however there is a camping department in the store and thanks to you I can give them more information about the gear there looking for
One thing I discovered that works amazing is using both an inflatable sleeping pad and an egg shell sleeping pad with the radiant side facing you. I put the egg shell pad between the inflatable pad and my sleeping bag. Will keep you significantly warmer vs just the inflatable pad. It is a game changer. I know some people see that as too much to carry but an egg shell sleeping mat is very lightweight and you can fit it to the outside of your bag
Yes. That's my plan for my next trip. My sack doesn't have an internal frame, but instead has mesh pockets on the back panel to accomodate a folded 3/4 Z Rest to double as a 'frame'. Combined with my Thermarest Uberlite pad I should be toasty, though I've always put my Z Rest under the tent to act as a groundsheet to protect the tent, and sleep on the pad. Probably amounts to the same as your way? 'Six of one, half a dozen of the other' as they say.
@@domo3552 You want the egg shell mat between you and the air. The air in the sleeping pad is cold so if you want to maximize your warmth you don't sleep on the inflatable pad directly
I love that you told us from the beginning when he started us it was for people who don't know not experienced and I think that you are doing a wonderful job and you are also learning things too I appreciate you
Loved the tip about rolling. Also having a sleeping bag that’s small enough to fit me properly has made a huge difference, so much warmer! And lighter.
I'm a huge fan of my silk sleeping bag liner. It's tiny and very light, and adds a lot of warmth - I don't purposely camp in below freezing temps, so this is a great backup for when it does turn out colder than I was expecting.
I’m a roller, and the most frightening sleeping experience I had was 40 years ago when I rolled inside of my 1970’s Gerry mummy bag and awoke upside down, not being able to breathe and find the opening. Total panic, like I was drowning. Otherwise, it was, and still is(!) a great 3lb. Goose down bag, though heavy by today’s standards. Cowboy’d it with a tube tent as a ground sheet and a foam pad in those days. Now at age 60 and getting back into packing, I want to use it again with an inflatable pad and tarp in three seasons and see how it goes before I shell out for a new sleep system.
This happened to me too as a kid. I was traumatised - total panic, but my family thought it was hilarious & I was just messing around. I'm surprised it didn't put me off camping for life!
I've never had a sleeping bag warmer than the 3 layer gortex sleeping bag issued to me in the Army back in the early 2000's. Was a cocoon type bag with outer layer just a Gortex waterproof shell. Middle layer was like a lightweight sleeping bad with inner layer being thick. I stayed warm whether sleeping on a cott, the ground, or wherever w/o any kind of sleeping pad or useing that standard issue pad the Army gives ya. I remember being out in the field sleeping under the stars on a city nice & warm and when I woke up in the morning & unzipped & poked my head out to find my entire sleeping bag was covered in frost. I was really warm inside though. Hated to get out of it.
After years of cold feet and short ground pads, I ended up making my own ground pad. I made a big pocket out of rubber backed canvas and a few sheets of aluminized bubble wrap. I can add in layers for any winter camping and at 6’8” long, my feet are never off the end anymore. I really like using it in my hammock. The canvas is grippy enough that I don’t slide into a ball, it’s stiff enough to keep the hammock sides away from me while sleeping, it is thick enough that I can hammock camp through 35f nights without getting cold and I don’t get bit by mosquitoes through the bottom of hammock on warm buggy nights when I’m sleeping.
A fitted sleeping bag sheet improves comfort greatly and keeps your bag fresh. I've used closed cell foam pads for decades, no fuss, no repair tape needed.
REALLY good review my friend. As a survival instructor growing up in rural MI and live/work/explore in my early years living in Alaska being out all year long in different weather conditions we definitely learned tricks to stay warm in the cold BUT the best thing you can ever do is spend some time in your gear outside at HOME before any trip. It saves so much discomfort by getting your system down first being able to bail and go inside for hot coffee/chocolate and then getting the right gear and or learn the cold weather tricks. A good night sleep is priceless in the bush. Also as others have pointed out here, site prep and layering (like you do for YOU) for your base and sides are critical in cold weather.Thank you again for really good advice and showing the ratings mean-usually not much!!
@1001CP that’s some of the soundest advice I’ve ever heard. People absolutely “DO NOT” test their equipment out enough before going into the extremes a lot of times. Getting out in the backyard is a foolproof way to do it and figure everything out… BEFOREHAND! Awesome tip!!💯👍🏻🫵🏻
Am nearly 50 years of age and weight is now a big issue now because I can't carry stuff like when I was younger, so vids like this is great and what to buy that does not cause to much stress on your back
For winter or mountaineering, I always carry a foam zrest to put under any inflatable pad. This way the ground is insulated it is keeps the inflatable off the cold ground. The remark about using a bivy below is also a good idea, but not needed as much if are in a 4 season tent. Also have learned to make sure that your boots stay in the tent or in the bivy so they don't freeze.
Wow. I have been doing my sleep system wrong for like 15 years. I stopped backpacking through college at least in part because I couldn't be comfortable. I did not know about all this. I had a super narrow sleeping pad that I would eventually slip off of in the night, I had mummy bags that I couldn't roll around in at all so it rolled with me and made me cold. Really takes the fun out of camping when you're so uncomfortable.
I’ve been getting back into camping again lately and just getting into hammocking, the amount of videos I’ve watched is unreal.. with that being said, your video was hands down the most informative, honest, no bs video on this entire platform. Never heard anyone talk about these other ratings and stuff. Thank you!
When tenting in winter always bring at least one closed cell foam sleepingpad per tent. I recomend one per person. When your fancy 8R inflatable sleepingpad punctures, you still have something to keep you from freezing to death. A closed cell sleeping pad of 14-15 mm will generally have an R-value of 3,5-3,9, thats not too bad for 600-750 grams of extra weight. And you can use it by a fire without worrying that flying embers will destroy it. They are puncture safe, but will ad a bit of bulk to the outside of your pack. When carried vertically, it will act like the third leg on a stool and keep your backpack upright all on its own. I see no disadvantages.
I bought an insulated sleeping pad, and a sleeping bag liner and they are game changers. So much more comfortable and I don’t feel any cold from the ground.
I dumped my inflatable pad and went for closed cell foam pad at my first stop on my Appalachian Trail hike - Didn't want to have to worry about deflation, plus it was a pain to constantly deflate and reinflate, even for the self-inflating pads. Less things to go wrong, the better. Also, critical are waterproof stuff sacks for sleeping bag to keep them dry - it can mean the difference between life or death. Once your down bag gets wet, that could be the end of your hike or more depending on where you are and how cold it is outside.
If someone has the SOL reflective bivvy, you can put that around your sleeping pad inside out and it will increase the insulation value of the pad. I was doing an overnight camp just outside Ottawa on October when it was wet and cold. My sleeping bag was fine, but I was still cold because of the issue mentioned at the start. So instead of putting the bivvy around myself, I put it around the pad and it turned a chilly night into a quite cozy night
Been doing it for years. 3/4" closed cell pad, 2" self inflating foam pad, and a king size comforter folded in half layed on top. The comes the Cabelas Magnum 44 sleeping bag, inside of that is a -15C sleeping bag, over top of all that is a pair of thinish wool blankets. I'm personally tested to -30C in it, comfortably sleeping in boxers and a t-shirt. Almost to the point of sweating, if I were wearing anything else. I look forward to trying it in even colder temps, to see how it works. Honestly, I'm working on a winter "hot tent" skidoo trip, keep warm project. It involves an Amazon Chinese Diesel Heater, 2 solar panels, a battery, and a wheeled toolbox that contains it all. Goal being, plumb the hot air into the tent, heater runs all night, solar charges the battery back up during the day when the heater is turned off and I'm out of tent sledding or cooking on the fire.
I am glad your channel was recommended to me in my feed. I use my old US Army sleep system when I go out camping/overlanding, I dont backpack much anymore. The system is comprised of 1 lighter “Patrol” sleeping bag, 1 heavier “Cold Weather” sleeping bag, and a “Gore-Tex Bivy” shell to top it off, so you can mix and match as weather permits. When all 3 bags are used together the system is rated to provide 4 hours sleep at -40° F (-40º C). The system is designed to fit in a stuff sack that is included. I also started bringing a blow up mattress with me for camping/overlanding, better sleep and stay warmer.
I’m sleeping on a an exped megamat and I take that with me even when visiting family rather than using their guest beds/couches/air mattresses. It’s a dream to sleep on. Especially when camping. Never cold or uncomfortable!
Another option if you have less expensive pads is to use a thermo blanket between the ground and the pad. Very cheap and weigh nothing. The silver reflective ones work great and make a huge difference.
The silver roll up solar reflectors that you put in your car’s windshield to keep car cool work great under your pad and weigh nothing. I get them cheap at the dollar store.
Marvellous information that would be difficult to obtain from conventional sources. Thank you. A few decades ago I used to do quite a lot of hunting in the hills and native forests of New Zealand (very rugged terrain, and often terrible weather). I never took a "pad" with me. The conventional technique was to gather dry forest material to form a raised bed, and put down on that my sleeping bag (a "Fairy Down 20 Below" - perhaps the best NZ made bag!), and only rarely suffered from a cold night, even with snow outside. Yes, insulation below the bag is very important.
I made the mistake of thinking the sleeping bag was the most important element in staying warm, and neglecting the R value of my pad! I don't think people realise that most of your body heat will be lost to conduction from contact with the cold ground underneath you! Thinking of it as a 'system' that requires each component to work in harmony is definitely the best approach!!
I learned that lesson camping on wet ground in the fall around Ottawa. Thankfully I had my SOL bivy which I just turned inside out and slid my pad in to, instant insulation. I was warm the rest of the night
Try purchasing some radiator reflection foil roll. On Amazon. It's very cheap. Durable and waterproof. It has its own R rating. From a 5m X 1.2 meter roll you will get 4 full size pieces. Put the piece under your sleeping mat. This definitely stops the transference of cold from the ground. It's really good stuff.
@@NotASheep100 yeah it's great stuff! I use a thermarest pad now, but for really extreme temps I take out a strip of radiator foil cut to size! Also handy for sitting on at camp, or lying on in an emergency if a bivvy out is required due to injury etc.
Watching Perry Peacock use his gear from Wilderness innovation, drilled this into my brain. So dry leaves or 12 inches of pine boughs, get some loft under you. And if you can't get it under all of you, get it under your torso.
Klymit pads have those deep grooves which allow your sleeping bag to loft up underneath you and provide more warmth (at least in theory). Thus the pad it self may appear to not have enough insulation for cold temps but when paired up with a sleeping bag it will keep you warmer than a flat pad of the same R value.
Doesn't really make sense though does it? Most insulation is made to prevent cold bridging caused by high pressure points crushing the insulation and "short circuiting" to the cold. Doesn't matter how much is lofted if you're lying on cold bits. Imagine lying on water pipes with down between them, no matter how much down depth you have, the cold pipes will freeze you.
Another awesome video, Dan! Sending love and blessings from Australia. I vouch for tip #7 a thousand percent. I bought a Sea to Summit mummy-shaped sleeping pad, and despite months of use (I tend to starfish a lot in my sleep) I could just never bag a good night’s sleep. I always had an arm or a leg sliding off, and God forbid I turn over in my sleep, cause I’d just roll straight off the pad. Switching to an Exped Synmat (with 25 inches/~64cm of width) was one of the best decisions I ever made. Have been sleeping like a baby on all my trips ever since.
I bought the thermarest Extreme wider square shape for this reason. I bought the exped rectangular shaped ones too for spare kits. Some peeps can get away with mummy shaped...I know I cant
50 years ago I discovered cheap 10mm closed cell foam pads and Fairydown's cheapest down and feather sleeping bag that moved with me as I turned worked brilliantly - winter climbing in Scotland with temps down to -20 deg C (about -4F). It takes a bit of getting used to the bag moving with you, but it saves major heat loss which depends on surface area
Thanks Dan for the information. If you can't get a good night's sleep while camping or on the trail, you might as well stay home because your trip will be ruined. You need to be alert out there and lack of sleep can really be dangerous.
Great information, thank you. I've been spoiled living in CA for many years. Although it is sort of depressing how many mistakes boil down to "Forgot that most companies are dishonest sacks of crap."
@@Mike1614YT Generally the two go together in tandem- corrupt politcal culture is an outflow of usually corrupt business culture. I'm hard pushed to think of one example in the world or in history where you has a benign business culture and corruption is isolated to just the politcal system. It hard to bribe a politician if no one is prepared to offer one. By the way corrupt businesses by in large aren't very good at creating goods and jobs- they wouldn't need to be corrupt if they made the best products and worthwhile jobs.
Great video! very good information, thanks for sharing.... my qc brain, noticed the mispelling in REPIAR, not repair maybe your fingers were cold while typing
Great video. While I'm not doing a lot of lightweight winter camping I am out tons in winter sledding, icefishing, backcountry skiing, etc. but always have cold fingers and toes for several hours even with good gear. Handwarmers are a must. Use for what they're made for and more- for feet, hands, body, sleeping bag... even for sled helmets without heated visors that are continuously fogging and icing up. A hand warmer tucked between the forehead and helmet visor can keep enough area clear to sled safely.
I used the 23 inch wide Klymit pad and kept rolling off! LOL Now I have the 30 inch wide version and I love it! It keeps me warm with my Kelty bag, it’s quiet and I don’t roll off anymore! 👍
Just to keep it simple I always add 10 degrees to what my bag rating is. For example a 0 degree bag is really good to 10 degrees and a 20 degree is good to 30 degree's and so forth. Also as far as bag size goes, yes you need one sized correctly for your body but you also have to figure you will bring a bit of gear in the bag with you to keep from freezing (Warm Nalgene, socks, electronics) so you should size for that as well.
Wow. I saw this and was like „oh, one of those videos….“ - but this was really really informative, covering many things that a beginner might not know and start believing sleeping outside is uncomfortable! Also I second the repair kit thing; my Thermarest suffered a minor spark from the camp fire on a trip, and wouldn’t hold air at all anymore. I was very lucky to have brought a repair kit with me, so I could continue the trip without the hassle to find a camping store in a foreign country. That was about 10 years ago, and I still use that same Thermarest every time I go outdoors, patched and all.
For winter and cold night camping setups, we use two sleeping pads. One pad goes under the sleeping bag and another goes inside the sleeping bag. We use mummy style bags, so the pad that goes inside has traditionally been a 3/4 length Thermarest self-inflating foam pad. We have also used air only inflatable pads (both inside and outside the bag). With today's lightweight equipment, brining an extra pad is not a big deal. Before inflatable air only pads became popular, we used a lightweight and dense foam pad combined with a Themarest self-inflating foam pad and had no issues with the cold from the ground. Except for areas with warm nights, we generally go the two-pad route.
I sewed together a sleeve to go over my Klymit Static V for those cold nights. I made it out of a thin wool blanket and a piece of a sil-nylon camping tarp that was getting old and worn out. The nylon goes under the pad and the wool on top, of course. I can't tell you the added R-value, but I can tell you that it is remarkably warmer than the naked pad. It does add 16 ounces to my sleeping setup, but I only have to use it in the cold winter months. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying the insulated Thermorest.
@@kevinhikes3132 Thanks. If you make it, make sure to leave it a little loose so that the v-channels of the Klymit pad still work properly... and it makes it easier to put on and remove, of course. Thanks for the reply..
Made the mistake on my first backpacking trip, my air mattress was rated for fall temperatures and it was about 30 degrees in the Porcupine Mountains in Michigan, and it deflated during the night. My sleeping bag was rated for 0° F, but I was still cold. I have since gotten a higher R Value pad.
It took me buying two mummy shaped narrow pads before I realized be the single, only reason I couldn't sleep was just because the pad wasn't wide enough. I'm a lightweight hiker and a 25 inch wide rectangular pad is ESSENTIAL
Have you ever tried using a reflective "emergency blanket" under your sleeping pad? I've found that very effective. Using it over the sleeping bag will trap moisture but using it on the floor of the tent works well.
@@isaiahcampbell488 The one I use is the slightly thicker blanket that is orange on one side and reflective on the other (Ozark Trail Survival Blanket). I don't know if the thin, vinyl ones will work as well.
@@terrymiller1759 Would you put the reflective side facing the floor or the mat? I've never used a reflective blanket for anything, so I'm not familiar with their use.
i've probably violated all of these tips. i've shivered in my bag for enough sleepless night to go back to the drawing board. i like these suggestions, and would like to add one. adding a foam pad to the bottom of the sleeping pad helps in many ways, increasing r value, reducing noise, less sliding around and preserving the lifespan of your pad. its like a thermal break. a hiker buddy told me that the conduction of the ground could outpace my body's ability to warm the pad, which makes sense (though i was packing a pad not rated for the conditions at the time). He offered his nemo switchback for the night and i remember sleeping like a baby.
Absolutely... use a foam pad with an air pad; it makes a big difference. But there's debate over whether to put the foam under the pad or between the pad and the bag. The idea being that the foam will basically be a relatively hard stop of heat transfer between one side and the other, so why not stop/reflect heat at the bag & not waste the heat warming up the air inside a pad that's at least partially exposed to air. The flip side is that you don't heat up the foam, so why not give a little heat to the pad & let it act as a temp buffer and let the foam just block from the ground. Plus less wear/tear on the air pad if the foam is underneath. I've tried both and prefer going with a thin foam pad (like the Agnes 3rd degree) between the bag & pad. But if using a thicker one (like the Therm-a-rest Z-lite), or in a shelter with no flooring, I like it better under the pad. But that also leads to the debate over whether to put a contour pad inside the sleeping bag or outside, which is a whole 'nother can of worms. My answer is no but there are some compelling arguments for it.
@@blackoak4978 I very much do not recommend the SOL Bivvy line for that application. It's basically a mylar blanket-turned-bag with some extra features. It traps air so well that it also traps condensation. I have one & tried it out with my bag & pad one one night when it got down to 5 degrees. By morning, the outside of the sleeping bag / inside of that bivvy was absolutely soaked in condensation. It was also really tight fitting with my bag/pad combo so I lost some loft that way. If all you had was a blanket, summer bag, or nothing but some thermal clothes, and got caught in some cold weather, go for it. (or if you're going out to test the setup) But don't plan to use it; use it for emergency. That's not to say they're bad; I now keep mine in my emergency kit and will throw into my bag on cold treks for emergencies. But they're definitely not for a properly planned/equipped situation.
Went camping in the mountains some time ago.was really cold at night so I got some rocks from the camp fire , wrapped them in clothes and used for a pillow and also at my feet. Helped a lot
When I was 18 I lived in Colorado. My sleeping gear was a small tarp and a nice wool trade blanket. Hung it on my pack. The tarp was the floor & the roof as well.
Large (not regular) RidgeRest is the affordable and foolproof Winter pad. Bulky yes, but no chance your hip bone mashes down to the frozen ground as a side sleeper. Also durable and doubles as a seat when making a snow couch and other such things.
I live in AZ and have never had to be too concerned with this type if info. I'm now looking at traveling into our mountains and out of state... thank you for sharing this info!!!
I had a Klymit V pad, the ultralight version I belive, on a trip in the Sierras that turned south. Overnight, a snow storm moved in and temps dropped to -9⁰F but the pad kept me warm. I can't recommend Klymit because their construction quality is meh but I think their R value estimations are accurate.
Actually Klymit were one company found to be fudging their R values. Look it up. Thermarest brought it to light. Apparently now they have updated their figures.
I have the exact Klymit sleeping pad he showed, insulated static v-lite, and I use a big agnes sleeping bag which has no insulation on the underside. When it got down to freezing, I was cold, but sleeping on my fleece and puffy were a temporary fix. I added a klymit's insulated sleeping pad cover on the next trip and that seemed to do the trick for me even with no bottom insulation in my sleeping bag.
@@marcusrobinson1778 Really. I have an old one and a half inch thick Thermarest pad for the early 90's bought for motorcycle camping that has never leaked and neither has my circa 2016 Luxury Map. And they have been used. Not sure which models you are referring to.
@@myvenusheeler any of the ones sold today have a valve issue. The scout etc. The garage sale at rei is full of them. It may just be a quality control issue. Mine lasted about a week no holes. Would just slowly deflate overnight.
I know it is overkill and extra weight, but it's totally worth it to have a closed cell foam pad under your sleeping bag, and and some kind of inflatable one inside your sleeping bag. helps with the rolling issue as well.
Just a note. I have the same Klymit sleeping pad but the insulated static V one and not the lite and has an R value of 4.4 and is a 4 season sleeping pad. It packs down incredibly small and weighs 700g. I use it all year round and never had issue with it.
I know it's probably frowned on, but I put my pad inside my sleeping bag with me and it's really made a big difference in how warm I stay. Its gotten rid of the shivering sleepless nights for me
I do that when I take my narrow pad because I was rolling off of it. One thing I do that I've been frowned upon for is I take my boots into my bag with me. They stay behind my knees, and are toasty warm in the morning.
@@NikkiLounsbury The bottom of the bag is more likely to get wet without the pad below it. I only use my narrow one in dry weather, so it just stays put better on the inside. I take a wider one otherwise.
I double it, I have a pad inside and one outside. But my bag I've had since I was young, quilted felt and fuzzy warm inside, open it up on the side and its good in the summer. I don't find bags like this anymore. Most the smooth satiny insides tend to make me really sweaty and uncomfortable.
I do same inside gortex bivy. I have a weird system of setting up my sleep system, tying 550 around the foot end so I can hang upside down, then lighting my UCO candle lantern under the head opening to allow lanten to heat whole sleep system GP included. Seems overkill except in extreme circumstances then it works great (I'm typing this so I haven't froze to death yet). WARNING: DO NOT LEAVE UNATTENDED! BE VERY CAREFUL OF FIRE!
if you've never looked into foil tape, you might check it out. its adhesive is very strong for a first-stick, not so much for any repositioning, but it's very thin so it rolls up in an emergency kit pretty well. also its reflective backing could be used for makeshift repairs should your flashlight should it be damaged-though-functional. mostly it's just very compact.
I discovered a nifty trick where I bought a cotton fitted sheet for a queen-sized mattress and I use it inside of my sleeping bag. This helped keep alot of warmth inside my sleeping bag when the fall temps started dropping around 40-50 deg F at night. The fitted ends of the sheet helps alot by keeping my feet wrapped inside so I dont have cold feet at night. EDIT: I forgot to mention the extra weight of the sheet really didnt make much of a difference (IMO) keeping things “ultra-light” in my rucksack as I keep it stuffed inside my sleeping bag when its rolled up for storage.
My small, women's specific Feathered Friends is a game changer. I had been using a wider, men's bag that took forever to heat up. Women's specific bags are totally worth it.
Al Lindsau, a polar explorer, says that putting a foam pad on TOP of the air pad is warmer so I plan on testing that next month. Lots of great points in this video, thanks!
I did some testing last weekend and noticed this is true. I was sleeping on snow at -6 celcius and had an R1 slim foam under my R3,7 air pad -> was bit cold. Then added R3,5 foam under them both for the next night and still I felt bit cold. Then middle of the night moved the R1 foam pad over the air pad and was much warmer or the rest of the night.
Solid advice...I definitely started out with some sleeping pads and bags that we not right for me...I now have the Klymit Static V Luxe pad with the V sheet and just received my new Big Agnes Echo Park 20 bag...I've also been using a piece of Reflectix insulation cut the width and length of the pad underneath everything...I feel it makes a pretty big difference
Nice video, thank you. Now, for ppl like me who can't afford a $600 sleeping bag with a $300 pad and a $800 tent what would be the options ? Would wool blanket work ? (For let say a 32°f weather)
Man it aint that hard. Be creative. The good products are compact but older solutions are a bit harder to take on. Personally, I carry a small series of one by two's to make a cot, works okay. And a good wool blanket would help, yes!
I found space blankets can add warmth, on underneath you as first layer on ground and second as a blanket over your bag. They are cheap and ad warmth. Also closed cell foam pad and put a thermarest on top of that.
I used a strip of Tyvek housewrap as my ground sheet (popular for lightweight backpackers, some 20 years ago someone was selling strips cheap online for a few bucks so we didn't have to go to home depot and buy the whole roll. Might can salvage some extra pieces from a construction site dumpster. Bivy sack. Thermarest inflatable pad. Can use a cheap yoga mat. Sleeping bag. Altho I had 2 really good expensive down bags for cold weather, I used a cheap heavy coleman bag from walmart for mild weather > 32 degrees. The down bags were for sleeping on snow. I used to use tents until I went lightweight and used bivy sack instead. Sleep on top of your extra clothes inside the bivy. These high cost items are usually to reduce weight and bulk, such as down fill in bags instead of polyester. got someone with a sewing machine to make a bivy? $8 mosquito head net mesh, $27 grassman camping tarp, $8 zipper 24"
In the older days few had expensive equipment. A couple of surplus army WOOLEN blankets under you and one on top. The 3 can be folded as an envelope, held by a large safety pin. In mountainous countries like Peru, Scotland or Northern Greece, it is possible to find woolen fabric from llamas or goats. Not thick, but very, very warm, used by shepherds. Also, try to find an old woolen army bag of 1950 ! Had a exterior groundsheet covering and was much warmer than most modern sleeping bags, except the extra expensive ones. An inflatable mattress meant for the sea insulates you well. Just deflate it enough so your behind just does not touch the ground ; this way you will not slip off. A few newspapers also provide insulation. An old bedsheet sewn on 3 sides can be used as a liner inside your envelope. Underneath everything an emergency blanket, also above everything. They do make a crackling noise, but it is better than to freeze. Duct tape to hold it in place. Thick woolen socks two sizes larger - not the ones you walked on ! In an emergency, insert your feet inside your pack. A tarp helps to keep out the wind. Even if you have no tent, if you get wrapped up like this, standing next to a very thick bush, you can drop inside the bush. The leaves provide a kind of "dome tent" and shield you from the elements. For something more modern and inexpensive, some home insulation materials, or others used in packaging can be soft, extremely light and provide very good insulation. I always carry a thick piece 40 cm X 40 cm in my pack for when I need to sit on the snow and it weighs next to nothing.
I swear by a wool blanket over top of the sleeping pad. Kept my family nice and toasty when the nighttime temp dropped below freezing and freezing rain fell all evening and night out of nowwhere in Yellowstone. Everyone was warm and happy, even though the entire rainfly of our tent was frozen solid.
I have a thermarest, with a 400 gsm mummy sleeping bag, and if it is particularly cold, a waterproof bivvy as well, which really keeps the warmth in. My tent is a Naturehike 3 pole with two doors. It has taped seams, and mesh to prevent condensation which I have never had in the tent. I have the conduction, condensation and convection thing down. I sleep cold, but I am always warm. I have sealskinz waterproof socks to always keep my feet dry, and hot hand heaters are a game changer. I have thick wool socks for night too. My feet are never cold.
This was very helpful. I've just upgraded from a swag to a hot tent. I'm going shopping this week for a sleeping pad and bag. You have given me the tools to make an informed decision. Thank you.
The way to roll in a bag without exposing the back of the bag to the cold is TO STRAP IT TO THE PAD. If your bag has an uneven insulation design, it almost assuredly has straps or a baffle designed to attach to the pad to prevent rolling
Living and camping exclusively in Florida I've been more concerned with the heat but after section hiking on the AT I've been more interested in colder weather camping. This video is full of useful information and great presentation as always!
I'm a fellow Floridian as well, and I definitely share your sentiment about staying cool during the hot months, but the month or so of cold weather (at least here in North Florida) certainly should not be underestimated. I went hiking/camping in blackwater in February last year and again last montj, and seem to keep underestimating how cold it would be. Woke up and it was 24 degrees, boots were frozen, tent had sheets of ice falling off of it when I got out, etc. It was quite rough. The cold mixed with the humidity here can certainly complicate a trip if one isn't prepared. Sure, there's no snow, but it still can get damn cold and rather risky if you're down a lengthy trail with no cold weather preparations. But yes, heat is certainly the primary concern the other 11 months out of the year lol.
I just did a high altitude cold weather trip (sleeping highest at 4800m, temperature below freezing but the altitude changes everything). The thermarest pad (I had the mummy-formed narrow version) is wonderful. Having a sleeping bag that does a bit more than just fulfilling the minimum requirement and pairing that with a really warm pad makes the nights very comfortable and allowed me to sleep more than other travellers.
I have also found that a foam pad under my airpad is huge for warmth. I use a thermarest zpad and a big Agnes q core insulated pad. I've got a cheap fleece sleeping bag from Amazon that maybe is good at 60f by itself and a 22 degree bag that is probably good to 35 in real life. Putting the fleece bag inside the big bag and using both pads I've slept WARM AND COMFY to 5. I'm a cold person.... I never want the AC on and the heat in my house never goes below 73.
That was the smoothest and slickiest sponsor name drop ive seen. You made the advertisment entertaining and enjoyable, bravo! Loved the coupon code drop too! 👊😁
Even if you purchase a sleeping bag from a reliable manufacture... remember that the temperature rates are tested in labs, closed rooms with no wind. Another thing, make sure your sleeping bag is manufactured with breathable fabrics because if you start sweating and all that humidity starts to condense inside the sleeping bag... you are going to experience a hell of a wake up. One more thing dude.. Gear heads, just as social media influencers, will say what ever they get payed to say. Great video. Keep it up!!!
I’ve never had a problem with cardboard over a divet dug into the snow/dirt. Fill the 2-3 inch deep torso+ sized hole with something airy from the environment. Even just small sticks and leaves is fine, as you place the cardboard over the top of the hole. Tarp gets folded with two layers between the inside and outside of whatever hovel you set up. usually tucked next to a Bush or someplace out of the wind with the top suspended with a corsage.This setup will make even a regular 2-season tent comfortable so long as you have a fire going. Or you can spend 1000$ on gear you will use 3 times a year and need to replace often.
This video was SO helpful! I just completed my 3rd backcountry, 3-season experience with my current sleep system and this last trip I REALLY felt the cold at night. I was disappointed because the comfort rating on my sleeping bag is at least 10 C colder than the nighttime temp. This video has me convinced that the rating on my Klymit V sleeping pad is the culprit.
@@Rock_Gear_Mtn And I always have a pair of down booty's in my bag. Warm feet make all the difference in the world to a man that can handle being a little cold throughout the nite. There is really no solution for the females
Used static V and found it comfortable but not very warm. Used it during a Manitoba Canada cold snap that was in the -40s. Had to put other insulation with it (parka underneath me). Took it out a couple years later ( same temp range) but paired with a Z rest on top and was warm.
@@ryand141 No I put the closed cell pad on top of the air mattress. My logic agreed with you and said to put the closed cell under the inflatable to provide additional puncture resistance. Another good UA-camr, ALinsdau, suggested placing the closed cell on top. I tried it that way and was not disappointed. Was even sleeping with a surplus Canadian Army sleeping bag modified into a sleep quilt, so no down underneath me. The reasoning behind it is closed cell pads warm up faster than the nylon. May I suggest you watch his video entitled "How not to freeze on an air mat while camping in the cold" he explains it better and far more entertainingly than I can.
Good hints, but if something to add. One important thing is to have thin good quality merino wool layer on you for sleeping maybe gloves and wool socks and hat if necessary. I have noticed people putting too much clothes and get inside sleeping bag, it makes you sweat first and cold afterwards and the sleeping bag is not operating correctly, it won’t distribute the heat of your body inside the bag correctly if you have too much clothes, especially low quality plastic ones. Thermo reflecting sheets which looks like folio paper are good low budget options too with almost zero weight.
If you sleep all night with one of those Mylar sheets and then wake up to a frozen landscape, you could die. The Mylar can’t breath and makes you wet after hours of use, then you are wet in cold conditions… not a good mix. Those blankets are to keep you alive if you are already cold and wet while waiting for help to come.
During my time in the army we camped outside for a few times when it was freezing. We had a waterproof outside bag, then a yoga mat pad, then the sleeping bag and finally a thin, blue sleeping bag. Worked great even though we were sleeping on the naked, dirty ground.
I learned a long time ago (got my first thermarest pad in 1986, ten years after starting to backpack) that if you put the sleeping mat inside the sleeping bag then you’re less likely to roll the bag with you when you thrash around, less likely to roll off the mat in the night (especially if you have to sleep on a slope) and less likely to cut or puncture your mat.
That is either a massive sleeping bag you have or a very thin mat. Sounds like it would work though. Not to get onthis guys back but the last time I watched a vid by him I think he admitted that he doesn't go on long (multiday) hikes. This was a good year or so ago so he could have changed. I don't bother listening to the advice of people who go out for the night in a tent and then the next night are back in there massive bed at home.
@@affalaffaa I use a thermarest self inflating coffin shaped. Pad. It curls up on the sides a little when you zip up but I have used this method on cots, ground, and hammock.
I just did this for the first time last week, and it made such a positive difference. I used a Nemo Forte bag and alps inflatable pad (I forget which one I have). I woke up to frost, but had the warmest sleep ever. I actually had to shed layers in the night.
I'll add a little of my own. When you turn on your side, your back will get cold. Compresses the insulation that was under you. Now he's on the side. If I were choosing a sleeping bag today, I would choose an integrated sleeping system and a cocoon. I would put a sleeping bag inside a summer sleeping system. Two sleeping bags stacked together is a very good idea. Firstly, it is warmer than one sleeping bag. And the second is that the integrated system does not overturn.
Definitely pack a fixing kit or at least some tape to fix your pad. Just came from a hiking trip were 2 pads I took to try out lost air, even with both I was so cold at night I had to wake up and repump my pads to wake up freezing after 2 hours again.
Hahahaaa.. ! Northern Canada here…minus 40 in the winter frequently for a month or so, otherwise approx -28 on a normal day. Most things freeze and break.. heck even propane gels at -45.. As many layers as you can get between you and the ground, yep. I’ve stacked my bed with pine boughs and whatever I could find..need a good 5 star sleeping bag ( -50 ), don’t forget your winter head covering. The cold will wake you up before you freeze to death but y9ull get a good 3-4 hours of sleep.
Super informative video! This past weekend was my first overnighter where it dropped below freezing. I was not cold whatsoever, given that I had a ton of layers too. Everything here is spot on!
I added two items to my sleeping system, a small tarp and a thin blanket/sheet. Both roll together nice in the sleeping bag or pad. Generally the tarp is placed down first, as a barrier between the ground and pad. This does so many things, if the ground is damp, now you are on a dry surface. It also does a decent job at keeping creatures away. If it is windy, you can actually fold it in half, taco style, and fold the top over the bag and now you have a wind break; or even protection from rain/dew. The blanket/sheet. Depending on the temps, I might place between the pad and bag. Use as an extra top layer. Or even as a pillow. Can also be warmed by the fire and tossed inside the bag to warm it up. Additionally, the tarp can be used to make a hasty shelter or poncho.
EXCELLENT INFO! TY Stepped away from backpacking for 20 years. Fortunately, much of my equipment is still viable. Fast fwd, age 60 and needs have changed. There has been tremendous improvements in technology of equipment. Encourage everyone to research and learn. Don't give up on a passion. 🙂
The core principle of insulation is air space. Place two sheets of glass together and you get bone chilling cold. But put a 1/4 space of air and you get toasty. That applies to EVERY material you can find, even if it's pine branches or just plastic bags out of a dumpster. Instead of thinking R value, think COCOONS. The universe wants to steal your heat no matter how efficient your equipment is rated. The goal then is to slow that heat escape down to a snail's pace to get through the night. Every cocoon you build around yourself is another beaver dam for body heat. That being said, two air mattresses with waffle style surfaces on top of each other do a great job of insulation. The first cocoon layer is your body in down, then squished down to top waffle, then the inner waffle of the top mat, then air space between waffles of each mat, then inner waffle of bottom mat, and then air spaces of waffles from bottom mat to bottom of tent. That's a lot of R value. Cheap air mats run about 1 lbs per mat (2 lbs total for 2x) and an expensive air mat with insulation runs about the 14-16 oz pack weight with far less functional R value. An high end air mattress runs about 1/2 lbs so 2x will be 1 lbs packing wgt. The advantage of two cheap mats is they can divided up for camp purposes other than sleeping. If one gets wet or muddy, it goes on the bottom. Punctured one? Mend it or use pine boughs and sleep on the last one. And you have year round sleep solution just by leaving one at home for the 3 season trips. I house sit and travel between friends with little or no guest accommodations. Two inexpensive 2.5 inch thick air mattresses interlock their waffles to a 5 inch thickness and I can sleep on a bare hard floor with out touching bottom when I lay out flat. In fact, I generally refuse beds because the uniform comfort level of stacked air mattresses on the floor usually exceeds any extra mattress bed or sofa they can offer. An air mattress on a friend's sofa can avert that back problem in the morning. Now ... sleeping bags. DOWN bags. I used to keep a summer bag and an expedition down bag, though neither was a total solution. Now, I take a 750 goose down (750 duck down is oiler and heavier and the down is smaller) weighing 1-2 lbs., AND a down quilt at .8 lbs. I use the same stuff sack for both unless the weight needs to be divided for some reason. The "Cocoon R value" kicks in there too: down bag next to body, inserted and snapped inside a down quilt on the outside for second cocoon, tent for third cocoon, fly for fourth. Throw a nylon sheet over yourself and there's a fifth. Here, versatility helps too. You can keep the bag in the tent and wear the quilt around the fire or to run out to the cat hole. If you have condensation from the fly on your feet in the tent in the mornings, dew is on the water resistant quilt, not on your warmth bag, and it dries out faster than a foot box on a tree. Again, there's seasonal versatility as well: bag and quilt cocoon for winter, just the quilt for summer and just the bag for Fall and early spring. Now I don't have shelves of assorted down bags to store. I do also have that small nylon sheet. It's a sand free beach sheet by design. It works as a shade tarp, a beach blanket, changing tipi, ground cloth to keep my bags clean, and thrown over my face, it's breathable and keeps my nose warm in winter, and sun out of my eyes if dawn glare doesn't appeal to me for another hour. It wrings by hand and dries in under 10 minutes (which makes it a decent cooling shelter). My friend woke and said she was freezing inside her sleeping gear, so I popped out the tiny stuff sac containing the beach sheet and shook the parachute over her. Within minutes she said she was already toasty. In the morning she admitted she slept well without further incident. Voila! The miracle of cocoons. All in all, the cocoon system might sound like excess weight, but functionally with well chosen gear it's barely there in my pack. It's mulitpurpose, comfort, and has safety redundancy against hypothermia with quick recovery of use.
@@tonygosbee3390 Same cocoon principle of efficiency, but I can't seem to keep from getting tangled up in mine. I wind up boxing with it all night. If I'm sleeping on snow, I'll deal with it. I actually have two, one Coolmax and another stretch fleece with smooth outer surface. Kicks up less static spark. They DO come in handy. :)
Our winter expedition courses in northern Maine involve potentially multiple days of temps well below zero. We require our students to have -20 degree bags but many get -40 bags. We also require students to use a two-pad sleeping system, typically an insulated inflatable bag on top of a traditional thick foam pad. We travel on skis hauling sleds with all of the heavy gear and wear backpacks stuffed with the lightweight down and insulated equipment.
I'm guessing your already aware of this but the Klymit V channels are the reason for the odd Rvalue ratings. They are designed to work in conjunction with the insulation on the bottom of your sleeping bag. Like you said, most of the insulation on the bottom of your bag is compressed and worthless when you lay on it, on most pads. The V channels allow the bags insulation to loft up filling in the gaps creating a higher Rvalue.
I'm not saying it should be 4.4 Rvalue, but it's definitely going to be warmer when used with a sleeping bag versus a quilt or a sleeping bag with less insulation on the bottom.
We have several Static V insulated ultralight pads. Used them for years. Great pad for the money as long as you understand it's limitations. Lots of great info in the video....👍
Cheers!
shouldnt that be the case with every sleeping pad that leave space on the bottom? like also the sea2summit ones?
Is this really a significant effect?
The R4.4 pad dropped to 1.9 right?
I’m a hammocker, but sometimes in the winter I sleep in shelters on the floor with my Klymit Static-V insulated, with just a quilt. My latest 3 overnights it got down to 20F and I slept great. I do agree that a little bit more width would be nice though
@@toesockoutdoors3627 Yea. I've slept on the insulated V ultralight with a quilt down into the upper twenties with a slight chill creeping in around 4am. I did wear my puffy but I was fine. Of course, everyones cold tolerance is different. I consider myself just slightly on the cold sleeper side of the fence.
You will not be cold with a -15 bag and a pad that thick. It's all marketing bs. Years ago, people used to sleep on nothing but a foam mat and they were fine, yes,even in winter. Wonder what the R value of foam is? 0. Well, it worked.
You are 100% correct about the channels and how they work with a sleeping bag. This working principle does not work for those of us that use quilts. There is no material to fill the channels and you will freeze your behind off trying to use a quilt with any of the Klymit pads.
Another tip is the sleeping bag work as a thermos. Put something (you) cold inside and it takes a hell of a lot more time too heat up. Some push ups and knee bends (getting some body heat flowing) speeds up this time. Or you can cheat, fill a bottle with warm water and throw it in the foot end.
Kind regards a soldier, that hates too freeze. In Norway.
I agree, work up some heat before you get in and the bag seals it in, jump in cold and inactive and your body won't release enough bodyheat to warm the air trapped around you. A nice hot drink just before bed is also just the ticket.
Reminds me, city person from Germany, being surprised by snow in Yosemite. We did jumping jacks until out of breath and rubbed our bodies with a cloth until hot. Bonus point: looks funny and you are exhausted (but happy and warm).
thank you for the tip :D
@@missmojo8779 u sweet
MRE heaters
I'm 79 and been camping since 1953 . Still camping. Tried many systems including my dad's 'army' blankets. We've been using REI pads for about the last 12 years, and I think they're about the best for the $$. Similar to the Thermarest but varying thickness as needed by the human body. Thicker at the shoulder-to-hip area and thinner at the knees and feet. They roll up nicely and self inflate in less time it takes to set up an e-z tent. Sorta pricy, but worth it for all the reasons (truths) in the video. Maybe wet, maybe buggy, maybe even too hot.. Never too cold. Yet... THX, Bob
p.s. If you're manually blowing up a mattress of ANY kind, do it before drinking ANY alcohol. It eats seals. Don't ask how I know. B
That sounds so interesting, you must have witnessed so many sweeping changes to how camping is done. Would you mind telling me a little more about what changed the most over your camping career?
@@jakubswitalski7989 Being in my late 60's I can add a couple of things. People didn't bring cell phones, chargers, solar panels, or equipment for YouTubing. We went as light as possible. People even took tags off of clothing and tea bags to save weight. Some even drilled holes in their tooth brushes. The little canister stoves came out in the 80's which helped with boiling water or heating things up.
@@jakubswitalski7989
Age !!!
I used my brothers army gear 😆
Everyone here probably knows this trick, but I love to share it because it really saved me a night of misery. I was backpacking with a friend of mine and an unexpected cold front blew in and I was not prepared. My friend was a cold weather camper and asked me if I had a Nalgene bottle with me. He had me put my jet boil just outside the tent, boil some water and dump it in my bottle, and put it in my bag. It would keep me warm for 2-3 hours and then when I got cold again I would unzip the flap reheat the water and throw it back in my bag. Kept me from freezing my berries off. Hope this helps somebody.
I would use a stainless or aluminum water bottle with a really good seal, fill with boiling water. Place inside a stocking and into the foot of the sleeping bag. Toasty all night!
I came to the comments to add this. I’ve used it in moderately cold weather to just pre heat the bag. By the time it cooled down, I had the bag good and toasty. Works best for me at my feet.
I've done that a lot. It's also good for keeping your water from freezing.
@@mortsnerd5100 Also good for drying your gloves if they got really wet during the day. Drying slightly moist clothes inside the sleeping bag is ok, but anything beyond slightly moist is miserable. Only works with overnight temps around 0 inside your tent. frozen iced tea is a bit too iced.
Excellent advice, don't forget to use common sense and don't burn yourself lol
Here's my advice: Try out your new gear in your backyard first. Set up your tent, pad and bag in your backyard, or somewhere where you have easy access to shelter, and try to spend the night in it. Better to find out your gear is too cold, too warm, or too uncomfortable to sleep in when you're just a few feet away from your bed.
This is exactly what I do with all new kit before I go away
My yard is full of dog poo 😂
I do this with all of my kit too, my kids love it because it means we do backyard camping just to try out the new stuff. New camp food, cookware, blankets, sleep pads, tents, tarp set ups, etc. They get adventure, and I get safety lol
A reflexive car windshield cover is also a lightweight option also to put under your pad also.. when that gets trashed just make a few coozy out of it.
Getting comfortable at night and working out what's important to YOU is a huge camping game-changer. I nearly binned backpacking altogether because I didn't like single skin tents, restrictive sleeping bags, stuff-sack pillows etc. I now have a two skin tent, a Thermarest Questar and the Hikenture pillow and my base weight is still only around 10kg.
For every layer above you, you should have two layers below. All winter campers should be using a liner and a gore tex bivvy bag. Canadian army routinely camps out in the coldest arctic weather, our sleep system is a ground sheet, an air mattress, a bivvy bag, two down filled sleeping bags, and a liner and optional ranger blanket (poncho liner). It is important to sleep in nothing but your underwear so you don't sweat - sweat kills. The coldest I have been out is -60°C in the arctic and was comfy.
I disagree. I have been in Finnish army special forces and we gave arctic warfare training to US troops also, but I learned the most after the army.
Bivy is many times bad idea, that can make you swetty. And putting more clothes on you is in many situation a good idea. I usually sleep with my wet gear on, and dry them this way to next day. There is alot of tricks people don't know and nobody talks them.
When sleeping more than 100 nights in a year outdoors, I had the opportunity to test shitload of wild ideas.
@@caide notice I said Gore tex bivy bag. No survival expert recommends wet clothes in a sleeping bag. In fact they recommend against it. Also wet clothes in a sleeping bag results in a wet sleeping bag. The feathers get wet and lose loft thus insulation resulting in a loss of heat, and who wants to sleep in a wet bed?
@@dingo5208 Yes it is not usually good idea. Surviving is a different game than having trips in winter and having fun. When the game sets easier, it is not surviving anymore. It's a lifestyle.
If my sleeping set is in the limita, I will not do that drying of course. But usually me sleeping system is with more warmth, what I need. Then I can dry my clothes. And when the system breaths well, I don't have any plastics, the moist goes through the sleeping bag and to the air. Same system I dry clothes when hiking. I put wet clothes inside my jacket.
These skills are very handy when we are out week or two and make longer trips backcountry skiing.
With longer trips, the weather can change from side to side. I have some trips where I had some days +5 Celsius with rain and then quickly after that -25 celsius. So situations are very different every night and tool box for different tricks are usually handy.
@@Codzilla71 Why not. Of course with complete wet, but what you get in winter trips. I did it last weekend again and no problems. My clothing was dry in the morning.
Experienced winter camper from Quebec here.
Best trick: place a 1cm thick closed foam cell sleeping pad, custom cut to fit, INSIDE your -15C rated mummy sleeping bag. Place your regular inflatable sleeping pad or another 1cm closed cell sleeping pad under your sleeping bag. If you wish to double your under-bag insulation: lay approximately 3-4cm of spruce/pine/fir fronds under your tent. Ensure your tent/sleep area is not on frozen ground (5-30 cm layer of snow is perfect).
However: I sleep in a tarp lean-to for winter conditions and lay a short tarp on top of the evergreen boughs; just use the sleeping pad inside my mummy bag - that's all (the open fire reflects the heat - very toasty).
When is on a field problem in the Marines in Korea. It was January 1973. It got down to -81 wind chill. We were a winter insulated 10 man tent heated. We had those military sleeping bag. They are very good at keeping body heat in, too good. People complain about getting sweaty. I had brought a military blanket. We were sleeping on cots. So what I did was folded the blanket in half put it on the cot and used my sleeping bag as a blanket. I didn't get sweaty and slept great.
Kinda like the newer style of sleeping bag called a "quilt". Just "re-invented".
cub scout wool blanket with any camping sleep system as an add on is gold
You can never go wrong with wool when you need to stay warm.
@@IFS2023facts!
It’s allergic to wool, but fleece works really well too.
Bulk and weight? I wouldn't think that's easy to carry.
@purplpen it depends on how thick a blanket your talking about. Some of the larger ones? Yeah, they're heavy. But the smaller ones are actually pretty light. There are also wool sweaters, long johns, and socks too.
I like that you desribe that the sleepingbag isolation on the Bags is much thinner than on front. This fact made me order a handmade spb with the perfect filling to my needs...
Don't forget that you can amplify the warmth of your bags, pads, etc, if you're in an area that has evergreens. Adding layers of spruce or juniper boughs can make a massive difference. Also, adding spare clothing in the foot of your sleeping bag while wearing wool socks will also increase your comfort.
If you have hand warmers, or water bottles, use them inside your sleeping bag too. Simply heating some snow and pouring it into the water bottles while warm will help.
love how the video doesnt waffle around and gets straight into the info. great video thank you
I am currently employed at a outdoors store (I just unload and stalk the selves) however there is a camping department in the store and thanks to you I can give them more information about the gear there looking for
The cameramans power stance in the beginning being reflected by the sunglasses is amazing.
Nice
🗣️Mr.Anderson
Patrick Star
I’m dead 💀
😂😂
One thing I discovered that works amazing is using both an inflatable sleeping pad and an egg shell sleeping pad with the radiant side facing you. I put the egg shell pad between the inflatable pad and my sleeping bag. Will keep you significantly warmer vs just the inflatable pad. It is a game changer. I know some people see that as too much to carry but an egg shell sleeping mat is very lightweight and you can fit it to the outside of your bag
Yes. That's my plan for my next trip. My sack doesn't have an internal frame, but instead has mesh pockets on the back panel to accomodate a folded 3/4 Z Rest to double as a 'frame'. Combined with my Thermarest Uberlite pad I should be toasty, though I've always put my Z Rest under the tent to act as a groundsheet to protect the tent, and sleep on the pad. Probably amounts to the same as your way? 'Six of one, half a dozen of the other' as they say.
@@domo3552 You want the egg shell mat between you and the air. The air in the sleeping pad is cold so if you want to maximize your warmth you don't sleep on the inflatable pad directly
@@fantasyEXX Greay idrea!
Plus you can use the egg pad as a seat
Those egg shell pads are awesome
I love that you told us from the beginning when he started us it was for people who don't know not experienced and I think that you are doing a wonderful job and you are also learning things too I appreciate you
Loved the tip about rolling. Also having a sleeping bag that’s small enough to fit me properly has made a huge difference, so much warmer! And lighter.
I'm a huge fan of my silk sleeping bag liner. It's tiny and very light, and adds a lot of warmth - I don't purposely camp in below freezing temps, so this is a great backup for when it does turn out colder than I was expecting.
It’s a must. Sweat in the liner. Extends life of the bag. Can open your bag a bit on cold nights
I need to try that :D
It's what the girls do, lol!!
I was disappointed in my silk liner on an unexpectedly cold trip. Didn't make one lick of difference!
I’m a roller, and the most frightening sleeping experience I had was 40 years ago when I rolled inside of my 1970’s Gerry mummy bag and awoke upside down, not being able to breathe and find the opening. Total panic, like I was drowning. Otherwise, it was, and still is(!) a great 3lb. Goose down bag, though heavy by today’s standards. Cowboy’d it with a tube tent as a ground sheet and a foam pad in those days. Now at age 60 and getting back into packing, I want to use it again with an inflatable pad and tarp in three seasons and see how it goes before I shell out for a new sleep system.
This happened to me too as a kid. I was traumatised - total panic, but my family thought it was hilarious & I was just messing around. I'm surprised it didn't put me off camping for life!
I've never had a sleeping bag warmer than the 3 layer gortex sleeping bag issued to me in the Army back in the early 2000's. Was a cocoon type bag with outer layer just a Gortex waterproof shell. Middle layer was like a lightweight sleeping bad with inner layer being thick. I stayed warm whether sleeping on a cott, the ground, or wherever w/o any kind of sleeping pad or useing that standard issue pad the Army gives ya. I remember being out in the field sleeping under the stars on a city nice & warm and when I woke up in the morning & unzipped & poked my head out to find my entire sleeping bag was covered in frost. I was really warm inside though. Hated to get out of it.
I swear by those things. Getting woken up for firewatch to go out in the cold and rain was always a terrible feeling.
+1 here!
And never forget your woobie!!
@@sdevans2 always.
I use this set up for fishing. Good old British army surplus
After years of cold feet and short ground pads, I ended up making my own ground pad. I made a big pocket out of rubber backed canvas and a few sheets of aluminized bubble wrap. I can add in layers for any winter camping and at 6’8” long, my feet are never off the end anymore. I really like using it in my hammock. The canvas is grippy enough that I don’t slide into a ball, it’s stiff enough to keep the hammock sides away from me while sleeping, it is thick enough that I can hammock camp through 35f nights without getting cold and I don’t get bit by mosquitoes through the bottom of hammock on warm buggy nights when I’m sleeping.
You should post a video of that beast
Wow I love to see how u made it step by step, is that possible?
I'd love to hear more specifics. Would make great video or blog post. So canvas isn't too heavy and doesn't mold?
I sleep in a hammock indoors! Love it.
A fitted sleeping bag sheet improves comfort greatly and keeps your bag fresh. I've used closed cell foam pads for decades, no fuss, no repair tape needed.
The coach of camping and hiking is back baby!!!!!! 🎉
REALLY good review my friend. As a survival instructor growing up in rural MI and live/work/explore in my early years living in Alaska being out all year long in different weather conditions we definitely learned tricks to stay warm in the cold BUT the best thing you can ever do is spend some time in your gear outside at HOME before any trip. It saves so much discomfort by getting your system down first being able to bail and go inside for hot coffee/chocolate and then getting the right gear and or learn the cold weather tricks. A good night sleep is priceless in the bush. Also as others have pointed out here, site prep and layering (like you do for YOU) for your base and sides are critical in cold weather.Thank you again for really good advice and showing the ratings mean-usually not much!!
Do you have backpacking recommendations for MI in spring summer and fall?
@1001CP that’s some of the soundest advice I’ve ever heard. People absolutely “DO NOT” test their equipment out enough before going into the extremes a lot of times. Getting out in the backyard is a foolproof way to do it and figure everything out… BEFOREHAND! Awesome tip!!💯👍🏻🫵🏻
Am nearly 50 years of age and weight is now a big issue now because I can't carry stuff like when I was younger, so vids like this is great and what to buy that does not cause to much stress on your back
For winter or mountaineering, I always carry a foam zrest to put under any inflatable pad. This way the ground is insulated it is keeps the inflatable off the cold ground. The remark about using a bivy below is also a good idea, but not needed as much if are in a 4 season tent. Also have learned to make sure that your boots stay in the tent or in the bivy so they don't freeze.
Wow. I have been doing my sleep system wrong for like 15 years. I stopped backpacking through college at least in part because I couldn't be comfortable. I did not know about all this. I had a super narrow sleeping pad that I would eventually slip off of in the night, I had mummy bags that I couldn't roll around in at all so it rolled with me and made me cold. Really takes the fun out of camping when you're so uncomfortable.
I’m
I’ve been getting back into camping again lately and just getting into hammocking, the amount of videos I’ve watched is unreal.. with that being said, your video was hands down the most informative, honest, no bs video on this entire platform. Never heard anyone talk about these other ratings and stuff. Thank you!
👍🔥🙏
Hope you've seen some videos by Shug! (Shugemery), taught me everything I know about hammocking!
When tenting in winter always bring at least one closed cell foam sleepingpad per tent. I recomend one per person.
When your fancy 8R inflatable sleepingpad punctures, you still have something to keep you from freezing to death.
A closed cell sleeping pad of 14-15 mm will generally have an R-value of 3,5-3,9, thats not too bad for 600-750 grams of extra weight. And you can use it by a fire without worrying that flying embers will destroy it. They are puncture safe, but will ad a bit of bulk to the outside of your pack.
When carried vertically, it will act like the third leg on a stool and keep your backpack upright all on its own.
I see no disadvantages.
I bought an insulated sleeping pad, and a sleeping bag liner and they are game changers. So much more comfortable and I don’t feel any cold from the ground.
I dumped my inflatable pad and went for closed cell foam pad at my first stop on my Appalachian Trail hike - Didn't want to have to worry about deflation, plus it was a pain to constantly deflate and reinflate, even for the self-inflating pads. Less things to go wrong, the better. Also, critical are waterproof stuff sacks for sleeping bag to keep them dry - it can mean the difference between life or death. Once your down bag gets wet, that could be the end of your hike or more depending on where you are and how cold it is outside.
If someone has the SOL reflective bivvy, you can put that around your sleeping pad inside out and it will increase the insulation value of the pad.
I was doing an overnight camp just outside Ottawa on October when it was wet and cold. My sleeping bag was fine, but I was still cold because of the issue mentioned at the start. So instead of putting the bivvy around myself, I put it around the pad and it turned a chilly night into a quite cozy night
Pro tip: Use a closed cell foam pad under your inflatable pad. This will make a thermal barrier between your sleep system and the cold ground.
You can also put one of those silver emergency blankets under it too ;-)
Been doing it for years. 3/4" closed cell pad, 2" self inflating foam pad, and a king size comforter folded in half layed on top. The comes the Cabelas Magnum 44 sleeping bag, inside of that is a -15C sleeping bag, over top of all that is a pair of thinish wool blankets.
I'm personally tested to -30C in it, comfortably sleeping in boxers and a t-shirt. Almost to the point of sweating, if I were wearing anything else.
I look forward to trying it in even colder temps, to see how it works.
Honestly, I'm working on a winter "hot tent" skidoo trip, keep warm project. It involves an Amazon Chinese Diesel Heater, 2 solar panels, a battery, and a wheeled toolbox that contains it all. Goal being, plumb the hot air into the tent, heater runs all night, solar charges the battery back up during the day when the heater is turned off and I'm out of tent sledding or cooking on the fire.
was looking for this, I always take foil foam pad even If its just one day trail
And it helps prevent air mat punctures. Yet for some reason you dont see them being used in the many camping videos. It is a no brainer.
Just use a closed cell foam pad, full stop.
Slept in the snow, no problem.
I am glad your channel was recommended to me in my feed. I use my old US Army sleep system when I go out camping/overlanding, I dont backpack much anymore. The system is comprised of 1 lighter “Patrol” sleeping bag, 1 heavier “Cold Weather” sleeping bag, and a “Gore-Tex Bivy” shell to top it off, so you can mix and match as weather permits. When all 3 bags are used together the system is rated to provide 4 hours sleep at -40° F (-40º C). The system is designed to fit in a stuff sack that is included.
I also started bringing a blow up mattress with me for camping/overlanding, better sleep and stay warmer.
Excellent advice. If there's one thing I find as important as food/water on a hiking or camping trip, it's the quality of my sleep.
I’m sleeping on a an exped megamat and I take that with me even when visiting family rather than using their guest beds/couches/air mattresses. It’s a dream to sleep on. Especially when camping. Never cold or uncomfortable!
Another option if you have less expensive pads is to use a thermo blanket between the ground and the pad. Very cheap and weigh nothing. The silver reflective ones work great and make a huge difference.
I do this as well when camping below freezing.
The silver roll up solar reflectors that you put in your car’s windshield to keep car cool work great under your pad and weigh nothing. I get them cheap at the dollar store.
@@kevindice1092 Same
Between GROUND and PAD or between PAD and SLEEPING BAG?
@@dh2558 between ground and the pad
Actually never heard of the ASTM or R rating values before watching this video! Thanks for the knowledge 👍
Marvellous information that would be difficult to obtain from conventional sources. Thank you. A few decades ago I used to do quite a lot of hunting in the hills and native forests of New Zealand (very rugged terrain, and often terrible weather). I never took a "pad" with me. The conventional technique was to gather dry forest material to form a raised bed, and put down on that my sleeping bag (a "Fairy Down 20 Below" - perhaps the best NZ made bag!), and only rarely suffered from a cold night, even with snow outside. Yes, insulation below the bag is very important.
I made the mistake of thinking the sleeping bag was the most important element in staying warm, and neglecting the R value of my pad! I don't think people realise that most of your body heat will be lost to conduction from contact with the cold ground underneath you! Thinking of it as a 'system' that requires each component to work in harmony is definitely the best approach!!
I learned that lesson camping on wet ground in the fall around Ottawa. Thankfully I had my SOL bivy which I just turned inside out and slid my pad in to, instant insulation. I was warm the rest of the night
Try purchasing some radiator reflection foil roll. On Amazon. It's very cheap. Durable and waterproof. It has its own R rating.
From a 5m X 1.2 meter roll you will get 4 full size pieces.
Put the piece under your sleeping mat. This definitely stops the transference of cold from the ground.
It's really good stuff.
@@NotASheep100 yeah it's great stuff! I use a thermarest pad now, but for really extreme temps I take out a strip of radiator foil cut to size! Also handy for sitting on at camp, or lying on in an emergency if a bivvy out is required due to injury etc.
Watching Perry Peacock use his gear from Wilderness innovation, drilled this into my brain. So dry leaves or 12 inches of pine boughs, get some loft under you. And if you can't get it under all of you, get it under your torso.
Klymit pads have those deep grooves which allow your sleeping bag to loft up underneath you and provide more warmth (at least in theory). Thus the pad it self may appear to not have enough insulation for cold temps but when paired up with a sleeping bag it will keep you warmer than a flat pad of the same R value.
7:52 - If only 30% of the insulation is on the back of the bag, Klymit’s grooves won’t cut it!
Doesn't really make sense though does it? Most insulation is made to prevent cold bridging caused by high pressure points crushing the insulation and "short circuiting" to the cold. Doesn't matter how much is lofted if you're lying on cold bits. Imagine lying on water pipes with down between them, no matter how much down depth you have, the cold pipes will freeze you.
I was wondering what the groves were for
That is false physics.
"At least in theory"? I would amend that to, "at least in Klymit's dishonest marketing."
Another awesome video, Dan! Sending love and blessings from Australia.
I vouch for tip #7 a thousand percent. I bought a Sea to Summit mummy-shaped sleeping pad, and despite months of use (I tend to starfish a lot in my sleep) I could just never bag a good night’s sleep. I always had an arm or a leg sliding off, and God forbid I turn over in my sleep, cause I’d just roll straight off the pad.
Switching to an Exped Synmat (with 25 inches/~64cm of width) was one of the best decisions I ever made. Have been sleeping like a baby on all my trips ever since.
I bought the thermarest Extreme wider square shape for this reason. I bought the exped rectangular shaped ones too for spare kits. Some peeps can get away with mummy shaped...I know I cant
50 years ago I discovered cheap 10mm closed cell foam pads and Fairydown's cheapest down and feather sleeping bag that moved with me as I turned worked brilliantly - winter climbing in Scotland with temps down to -20 deg C (about -4F). It takes a bit of getting used to the bag moving with you, but it saves major heat loss which depends on surface area
Thanks Dan for the information. If you can't get a good night's sleep while camping or on the trail, you might as well stay home because your trip will be ruined. You need to be alert out there and lack of sleep can really be dangerous.
Great information, thank you. I've been spoiled living in CA for many years. Although it is sort of depressing how many mistakes boil down to "Forgot that most companies are dishonest sacks of crap."
California has quite a bit cold weather camping. I've slept in a snow shelter near Donner Pass and it was as cold any other 'tough winter' state.
don't forget "most politicians are dishonest sacks of crap". at least companies create jobs and manufacture products.
@@Mike1614YT Generally the two go together in tandem- corrupt politcal culture is an outflow of usually corrupt business culture. I'm hard pushed to think of one example in the world or in history where you has a benign business culture and corruption is isolated to just the politcal system. It hard to bribe a politician if no one is prepared to offer one. By the way corrupt businesses by in large aren't very good at creating goods and jobs- they wouldn't need to be corrupt if they made the best products and worthwhile jobs.
From Southern California yeah, if’s pretty easy to forget seasons besides summer exist, winter oh no it’s like 55 degrees outside 🥶
Yeah .
It starts at 0:24... just look at the camera man's stance in Dan's glasses.... now that's stability, structure, dedication.
The orange 'Klymit' pad is considered a 'four seasons pad' because you can listen to Verdi's "Four seasons" while lying on it.
Vivaldi*
😂
Great video! very good information, thanks for sharing.... my qc brain, noticed the mispelling in REPIAR, not repair
maybe your fingers were cold while typing
Great video. While I'm not doing a lot of lightweight winter camping I am out tons in winter sledding, icefishing, backcountry skiing, etc. but always have cold fingers and toes for several hours even with good gear. Handwarmers are a must. Use for what they're made for and more- for feet, hands, body, sleeping bag... even for sled helmets without heated visors that are continuously fogging and icing up. A hand warmer tucked between the forehead and helmet visor can keep enough area clear to sled safely.
I used the 23 inch wide Klymit pad and kept rolling off! LOL Now I have the 30 inch wide version and I love it! It keeps me warm with my Kelty bag, it’s quiet and I don’t roll off anymore! 👍
Just to keep it simple I always add 10 degrees to what my bag rating is. For example a 0 degree bag is really good to 10 degrees and a 20 degree is good to 30 degree's and so forth. Also as far as bag size goes, yes you need one sized correctly for your body but you also have to figure you will bring a bit of gear in the bag with you to keep from freezing (Warm Nalgene, socks, electronics) so you should size for that as well.
Wow. I saw this and was like „oh, one of those videos….“ - but this was really really informative, covering many things that a beginner might not know and start believing sleeping outside is uncomfortable! Also I second the repair kit thing; my Thermarest suffered a minor spark from the camp fire on a trip, and wouldn’t hold air at all anymore. I was very lucky to have brought a repair kit with me, so I could continue the trip without the hassle to find a camping store in a foreign country. That was about 10 years ago, and I still use that same Thermarest every time I go outdoors, patched and all.
The glasses and dandy boy spotless clothing really do make him look like a glamper d-bag
For winter and cold night camping setups, we use two sleeping pads. One pad goes under the sleeping bag and another goes inside the sleeping bag. We use mummy style bags, so the pad that goes inside has traditionally been a 3/4 length Thermarest self-inflating foam pad. We have also used air only inflatable pads (both inside and outside the bag). With today's lightweight equipment, brining an extra pad is not a big deal. Before inflatable air only pads became popular, we used a lightweight and dense foam pad combined with a Themarest self-inflating foam pad and had no issues with the cold from the ground. Except for areas with warm nights, we generally go the two-pad route.
I sewed together a sleeve to go over my Klymit Static V for those cold nights. I made it out of a thin wool blanket and a piece of a sil-nylon camping tarp that was getting old and worn out. The nylon goes under the pad and the wool on top, of course. I can't tell you the added R-value, but I can tell you that it is remarkably warmer than the naked pad. It does add 16 ounces to my sleeping setup, but I only have to use it in the cold winter months. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying the insulated Thermorest.
@@kevinhikes3132 Thanks. If you make it, make sure to leave it a little loose so that the v-channels of the Klymit pad still work properly... and it makes it easier to put on and remove, of course. Thanks for the reply..
Made the mistake on my first backpacking trip, my air mattress was rated for fall temperatures and it was about 30 degrees in the Porcupine Mountains in Michigan, and it deflated during the night. My sleeping bag was rated for 0° F, but I was still cold. I have since gotten a higher R Value pad.
About to do a backcountry trip there in June - my first backpacking trip! Thanks for this info :)
Been camping my whole life and still learned some new tips from this, great video thank you!
This is true. We have an inflatable mattress that we add on top of a double cot. When we don't use the inflatable mattress, it gets extremely cold!
Yep, super glad I got a EE quilt. Much better for tossing and turning even in cold weather.
It took me buying two mummy shaped narrow pads before I realized be the single, only reason I couldn't sleep was just because the pad wasn't wide enough. I'm a lightweight hiker and a 25 inch wide rectangular pad is ESSENTIAL
Have you ever tried using a reflective "emergency blanket" under your sleeping pad? I've found that very effective. Using it over the sleeping bag will trap moisture but using it on the floor of the tent works well.
I was going to ask this question, thanks.
@@isaiahcampbell488 The one I use is the slightly thicker blanket that is orange on one side and reflective on the other (Ozark Trail Survival Blanket). I don't know if the thin, vinyl ones will work as well.
Slept under the stars this winter-20c haf a tarp a mat and sleeping bag . I was just fine .but waking up I the morning brrrrr. That's the worst
@@terrymiller1759 Would you put the reflective side facing the floor or the mat? I've never used a reflective blanket for anything, so I'm not familiar with their use.
I also use an emergency blanket under the pad. Even the cheap thin ones work wonders for cold weather camping!
i've probably violated all of these tips. i've shivered in my bag for enough sleepless night to go back to the drawing board. i like these suggestions, and would like to add one. adding a foam pad to the bottom of the sleeping pad helps in many ways, increasing r value, reducing noise, less sliding around and preserving the lifespan of your pad. its like a thermal break. a hiker buddy told me that the conduction of the ground could outpace my body's ability to warm the pad, which makes sense (though i was packing a pad not rated for the conditions at the time). He offered his nemo switchback for the night and i remember sleeping like a baby.
Check out the SOL Escape Bivy. It's a great way to add 10° insulation value, it packs no bigger than a soda can, and it's pretty light
Absolutely... use a foam pad with an air pad; it makes a big difference. But there's debate over whether to put the foam under the pad or between the pad and the bag. The idea being that the foam will basically be a relatively hard stop of heat transfer between one side and the other, so why not stop/reflect heat at the bag & not waste the heat warming up the air inside a pad that's at least partially exposed to air. The flip side is that you don't heat up the foam, so why not give a little heat to the pad & let it act as a temp buffer and let the foam just block from the ground. Plus less wear/tear on the air pad if the foam is underneath. I've tried both and prefer going with a thin foam pad (like the Agnes 3rd degree) between the bag & pad. But if using a thicker one (like the Therm-a-rest Z-lite), or in a shelter with no flooring, I like it better under the pad.
But that also leads to the debate over whether to put a contour pad inside the sleeping bag or outside, which is a whole 'nother can of worms. My answer is no but there are some compelling arguments for it.
@@blackoak4978 I very much do not recommend the SOL Bivvy line for that application. It's basically a mylar blanket-turned-bag with some extra features. It traps air so well that it also traps condensation. I have one & tried it out with my bag & pad one one night when it got down to 5 degrees. By morning, the outside of the sleeping bag / inside of that bivvy was absolutely soaked in condensation. It was also really tight fitting with my bag/pad combo so I lost some loft that way. If all you had was a blanket, summer bag, or nothing but some thermal clothes, and got caught in some cold weather, go for it. (or if you're going out to test the setup) But don't plan to use it; use it for emergency. That's not to say they're bad; I now keep mine in my emergency kit and will throw into my bag on cold treks for emergencies. But they're definitely not for a properly planned/equipped situation.
Try 3 to four sleeping bags combined in one like multiple cpu's at minus 100 celcius. Make sure you have lots of air as it can get air tight
Went camping in the mountains some time ago.was really cold at night so I got some rocks from the camp fire , wrapped them in clothes and used for a pillow and also at my feet. Helped a lot
When I was 18 I lived in Colorado. My sleeping gear was a small tarp and a nice wool trade blanket. Hung it on my pack. The tarp was the floor & the roof as well.
Large (not regular) RidgeRest is the affordable and foolproof Winter pad. Bulky yes, but no chance your hip bone mashes down to the frozen ground as a side sleeper. Also durable and doubles as a seat when making a snow couch and other such things.
I live in AZ and have never had to be too concerned with this type if info. I'm now looking at traveling into our mountains and out of state... thank you for sharing this info!!!
I had a Klymit V pad, the ultralight version I belive, on a trip in the Sierras that turned south. Overnight, a snow storm moved in and temps dropped to -9⁰F but the pad kept me warm. I can't recommend Klymit because their construction quality is meh but I think their R value estimations are accurate.
Actually Klymit were one company found to be fudging their R values. Look it up. Thermarest brought it to light. Apparently now they have updated their figures.
I have the exact Klymit sleeping pad he showed, insulated static v-lite, and I use a big agnes sleeping bag which has no insulation on the underside. When it got down to freezing, I was cold, but sleeping on my fleece and puffy were a temporary fix. I added a klymit's insulated sleeping pad cover on the next trip and that seemed to do the trick for me even with no bottom insulation in my sleeping bag.
@@EarlyMist wish thermarest even worked. The valves just fail
@@marcusrobinson1778 Really. I have an old one and a half inch thick Thermarest pad for the early 90's bought for motorcycle camping that has never leaked and neither has my circa 2016 Luxury Map. And they have been used. Not sure which models you are referring to.
@@myvenusheeler any of the ones sold today have a valve issue. The scout etc. The garage sale at rei is full of them. It may just be a quality control issue. Mine lasted about a week no holes. Would just slowly deflate overnight.
I know it is overkill and extra weight, but it's totally worth it to have a closed cell foam pad under your sleeping bag, and and some kind of inflatable one inside your sleeping bag. helps with the rolling issue as well.
Just a note. I have the same Klymit sleeping pad but the insulated static V one and not the lite and has an R value of 4.4 and is a 4 season sleeping pad. It packs down incredibly small and weighs 700g. I use it all year round and never had issue with it.
I know it's probably frowned on, but I put my pad inside my sleeping bag with me and it's really made a big difference in how warm I stay. Its gotten rid of the shivering sleepless nights for me
I do that when I take my narrow pad because I was rolling off of it. One thing I do that I've been frowned upon for is I take my boots into my bag with me. They stay behind my knees, and are toasty warm in the morning.
What is the downside of putting the pad inside the bag?
@@NikkiLounsbury The bottom of the bag is more likely to get wet without the pad below it. I only use my narrow one in dry weather, so it just stays put better on the inside. I take a wider one otherwise.
I double it, I have a pad inside and one outside. But my bag I've had since I was young, quilted felt and fuzzy warm inside, open it up on the side and its good in the summer.
I don't find bags like this anymore. Most the smooth satiny insides tend to make me really sweaty and uncomfortable.
I do same inside gortex bivy. I have a weird system of setting up my sleep system, tying 550 around the foot end so I can hang upside down, then lighting my UCO candle lantern under the head opening to allow lanten to heat whole sleep system GP included. Seems overkill except in extreme circumstances then it works great (I'm typing this so I haven't froze to death yet).
WARNING: DO NOT LEAVE UNATTENDED! BE VERY CAREFUL OF FIRE!
if you've never looked into foil tape, you might check it out. its adhesive is very strong for a first-stick, not so much for any repositioning, but it's very thin so it rolls up in an emergency kit pretty well. also its reflective backing could be used for makeshift repairs should your flashlight should it be damaged-though-functional. mostly it's just very compact.
I discovered a nifty trick where I bought a cotton fitted sheet for a queen-sized mattress and I use it inside of my sleeping bag. This helped keep alot of warmth inside my sleeping bag when the fall temps started dropping around 40-50 deg F at night. The fitted ends of the sheet helps alot by keeping my feet wrapped inside so I dont have cold feet at night.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the extra weight of the sheet really didnt make much of a difference (IMO) keeping things “ultra-light” in my rucksack as I keep it stuffed inside my sleeping bag when its rolled up for storage.
I use a flannel sheet inside my bag too.
We call it a bed scarf.
My small, women's specific Feathered Friends is a game changer. I had been using a wider, men's bag that took forever to heat up. Women's specific bags are totally worth it.
Al Lindsau, a polar explorer, says that putting a foam pad on TOP of the air pad is warmer so I plan on testing that next month. Lots of great points in this video, thanks!
ALinsdau is his channel. Spelled it wrong, sorry!
I did some testing last weekend and noticed this is true. I was sleeping on snow at -6 celcius and had an R1 slim foam under my R3,7 air pad -> was bit cold. Then added R3,5 foam under them both for the next night and still I felt bit cold. Then middle of the night moved the R1 foam pad over the air pad and was much warmer or the rest of the night.
I usually do the closed cell foam pads under my R4 pad for snow camping. Never get cold.
Solid advice...I definitely started out with some sleeping pads and bags that we not right for me...I now have the Klymit Static V Luxe pad with the V sheet and just received my new Big Agnes Echo Park 20 bag...I've also been using a piece of Reflectix insulation cut the width and length of the pad underneath everything...I feel it makes a pretty big difference
Thanks for the brilliant reflectix tip. Had to look up what it was....and it is non-carcinogenic and non-toxic as you are aware!
@@deathfuntaxes k
Nice video, thank you. Now, for ppl like me who can't afford a $600 sleeping bag with a $300 pad and a $800 tent what would be the options ? Would wool blanket work ? (For let say a 32°f weather)
Man it aint that hard. Be creative. The good products are compact but older solutions are a bit harder to take on. Personally, I carry a small series of one by two's to make a cot, works okay. And a good wool blanket would help, yes!
I found space blankets can add warmth, on underneath you as first layer on ground and second as a blanket over your bag. They are cheap and ad warmth. Also closed cell foam pad and put a thermarest on top of that.
I used a strip of Tyvek housewrap as my ground sheet (popular for lightweight backpackers, some 20 years ago someone was selling strips cheap online for a few bucks so we didn't have to go to home depot and buy the whole roll. Might can salvage some extra pieces from a construction site dumpster.
Bivy sack.
Thermarest inflatable pad. Can use a cheap yoga mat.
Sleeping bag. Altho I had 2 really good expensive down bags for cold weather, I used a cheap heavy coleman bag from walmart for mild weather > 32 degrees. The down bags were for sleeping on snow. I used to use tents until I went lightweight and used bivy sack instead. Sleep on top of your extra clothes inside the bivy.
These high cost items are usually to reduce weight and bulk, such as down fill in bags instead of polyester.
got someone with a sewing machine to make a bivy? $8 mosquito head net mesh, $27 grassman camping tarp, $8 zipper 24"
In the older days few had expensive equipment. A couple of surplus army WOOLEN blankets under you and one on top. The 3 can be folded as an envelope, held by a large safety pin. In mountainous countries like Peru, Scotland or Northern Greece, it is possible to find woolen fabric from llamas or goats. Not thick, but very, very warm, used by shepherds.
Also, try to find an old woolen army bag of 1950 ! Had a exterior groundsheet covering and was much warmer than most modern sleeping bags, except the extra expensive ones.
An inflatable mattress meant for the sea insulates you well. Just deflate it enough so your behind just does not touch the ground ; this way you will not slip off.
A few newspapers also provide insulation. An old bedsheet sewn on 3 sides can be used as a liner inside your envelope.
Underneath everything an emergency blanket, also above everything.
They do make a crackling noise, but it is better than to freeze. Duct tape to hold it in place. Thick woolen socks two sizes larger - not the ones you walked on !
In an emergency, insert your feet inside your pack. A tarp helps to keep out the wind.
Even if you have no tent, if you get wrapped up like this, standing next to a very thick bush, you can drop inside the bush. The leaves provide a kind of "dome tent" and shield you from the elements. For something more modern and inexpensive, some home insulation materials, or others used in packaging can be soft, extremely light and provide very good insulation. I always carry a thick piece 40 cm X 40 cm in my pack for when I need to sit on the snow and it weighs next to nothing.
I swear by a wool blanket over top of the sleeping pad. Kept my family nice and toasty when the nighttime temp dropped below freezing and freezing rain fell all evening and night out of nowwhere in Yellowstone. Everyone was warm and happy, even though the entire rainfly of our tent was frozen solid.
I have a thermarest, with a 400 gsm mummy sleeping bag, and if it is particularly cold, a waterproof bivvy as well, which really keeps the warmth in. My tent is a Naturehike 3 pole with two doors. It has taped seams, and mesh to prevent condensation which I have never had in the tent. I have the conduction, condensation and convection thing down. I sleep cold, but I am always warm. I have sealskinz waterproof socks to always keep my feet dry, and hot hand heaters are a game changer. I have thick wool socks for night too. My feet are never cold.
This was very helpful. I've just upgraded from a swag to a hot tent. I'm going shopping this week for a sleeping pad and bag. You have given me the tools to make an informed decision. Thank you.
The way to roll in a bag without exposing the back of the bag to the cold is TO STRAP IT TO THE PAD. If your bag has an uneven insulation design, it almost assuredly has straps or a baffle designed to attach to the pad to prevent rolling
Living and camping exclusively in Florida I've been more concerned with the heat but after section hiking on the AT I've been more interested in colder weather camping. This video is full of useful information and great presentation as always!
I'm a fellow Floridian as well, and I definitely share your sentiment about staying cool during the hot months, but the month or so of cold weather (at least here in North Florida) certainly should not be underestimated. I went hiking/camping in blackwater in February last year and again last montj, and seem to keep underestimating how cold it would be. Woke up and it was 24 degrees, boots were frozen, tent had sheets of ice falling off of it when I got out, etc. It was quite rough. The cold mixed with the humidity here can certainly complicate a trip if one isn't prepared. Sure, there's no snow, but it still can get damn cold and rather risky if you're down a lengthy trail with no cold weather preparations. But yes, heat is certainly the primary concern the other 11 months out of the year lol.
I use an old windshield reflector in my hammock tent. Works great!
I just did a high altitude cold weather trip (sleeping highest at 4800m, temperature below freezing but the altitude changes everything). The thermarest pad (I had the mummy-formed narrow version) is wonderful. Having a sleeping bag that does a bit more than just fulfilling the minimum requirement and pairing that with a really warm pad makes the nights very comfortable and allowed me to sleep more than other travellers.
I have also found that a foam pad under my airpad is huge for warmth. I use a thermarest zpad and a big Agnes q core insulated pad. I've got a cheap fleece sleeping bag from Amazon that maybe is good at 60f by itself and a 22 degree bag that is probably good to 35 in real life. Putting the fleece bag inside the big bag and using both pads I've slept WARM AND COMFY to 5. I'm a cold person.... I never want the AC on and the heat in my house never goes below 73.
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Even if you purchase a sleeping bag from a reliable manufacture... remember that the temperature rates are tested in labs, closed rooms with no wind. Another thing, make sure your sleeping bag is manufactured with breathable fabrics because if you start sweating and all that humidity starts to condense inside the sleeping bag... you are going to experience a hell of a wake up.
One more thing dude.. Gear heads, just as social media influencers, will say what ever they get payed to say.
Great video. Keep it up!!!
I’ve never had a problem with cardboard over a divet dug into the snow/dirt. Fill the 2-3 inch deep torso+ sized hole with something airy from the environment. Even just small sticks and leaves is fine, as you place the cardboard over the top of the hole. Tarp gets folded with two layers between the inside and outside of whatever hovel you set up. usually tucked next to a Bush or someplace out of the wind with the top suspended with a corsage.This setup will make even a regular 2-season tent comfortable so long as you have a fire going.
Or you can spend 1000$ on gear you will use 3 times a year and need to replace often.
Lol. Yep. Why not just bring the whole bedroom set too while they’re at it. Pillows and all. Don’t forget the nightlight!
This video was SO helpful! I just completed my 3rd backcountry, 3-season experience with my current sleep system and this last trip I REALLY felt the cold at night. I was disappointed because the comfort rating on my sleeping bag is at least 10 C colder than the nighttime temp. This video has me convinced that the rating on my Klymit V sleeping pad is the culprit.
Everyone has a different metabolism, so ratings are just a rule of thumb. Always have wool or synthetic thermal underwear for sleeping.
@@Rock_Gear_Mtn And I always have a pair of down booty's in my bag. Warm feet make all the difference in the world to a man that can handle being a little cold throughout the nite. There is really no solution for the females
Used static V and found it comfortable but not very warm. Used it during a Manitoba Canada cold snap that was in the -40s. Had to put other insulation with it (parka underneath me).
Took it out a couple years later ( same temp range) but paired with a Z rest on top and was warm.
Z rest above the Static? Don't you mean underneath?
@@ryand141 No I put the closed cell pad on top of the air mattress.
My logic agreed with you and said to put the closed cell under the inflatable to provide additional puncture resistance. Another good UA-camr, ALinsdau, suggested placing the closed cell on top. I tried it that way and was not disappointed. Was even sleeping with a surplus Canadian Army sleeping bag modified into a sleep quilt, so no down underneath me. The reasoning behind it is closed cell pads warm up faster than the nylon.
May I suggest you watch his video entitled "How not to freeze on an air mat while camping in the cold" he explains it better and far more entertainingly than I can.
Good hints, but if something to add. One important thing is to have thin good quality merino wool layer on you for sleeping maybe gloves and wool socks and hat if necessary. I have noticed people putting too much clothes and get inside sleeping bag, it makes you sweat first and cold afterwards and the sleeping bag is not operating correctly, it won’t distribute the heat of your body inside the bag correctly if you have too much clothes, especially low quality plastic ones. Thermo reflecting sheets which looks like folio paper are good low budget options too with almost zero weight.
If you sleep all night with one of those Mylar sheets and then wake up to a frozen landscape, you could die. The Mylar can’t breath and makes you wet after hours of use, then you are wet in cold conditions… not a good mix. Those blankets are to keep you alive if you are already cold and wet while waiting for help to come.
During my time in the army we camped outside for a few times when it was freezing. We had a waterproof outside bag, then a yoga mat pad, then the sleeping bag and finally a thin, blue sleeping bag. Worked great even though we were sleeping on the naked, dirty ground.
I learned a long time ago (got my first thermarest pad in 1986, ten years after starting to backpack) that if you put the sleeping mat inside the sleeping bag then you’re less likely to roll the bag with you when you thrash around, less likely to roll off the mat in the night (especially if you have to sleep on a slope) and less likely to cut or puncture your mat.
That is either a massive sleeping bag you have or a very thin mat. Sounds like it would work though. Not to get onthis guys back but the last time I watched a vid by him I think he admitted that he doesn't go on long (multiday) hikes. This was a good year or so ago so he could have changed. I don't bother listening to the advice of people who go out for the night in a tent and then the next night are back in there massive bed at home.
@@affalaffaa I use a thermarest self inflating coffin shaped. Pad. It curls up on the sides a little when you zip up but I have used this method on cots, ground, and hammock.
I’ve always stuffed my mat into the bag and sometimes a second mat outside to lie on, like those foil mats.
I just did this for the first time last week, and it made such a positive difference. I used a Nemo Forte bag and alps inflatable pad (I forget which one I have). I woke up to frost, but had the warmest sleep ever. I actually had to shed layers in the night.
just tried this at home, very good advice. I have a yoga mat and a 5C to 10C sleeping bag. I live on the countryside of brazil, so is usually warm.
I'll add a little of my own. When you turn on your side, your back will get cold. Compresses the insulation that was under you. Now he's on the side. If I were choosing a sleeping bag today, I would choose an integrated sleeping system and a cocoon. I would put a sleeping bag inside a summer sleeping system. Two sleeping bags stacked together is a very good idea. Firstly, it is warmer than one sleeping bag. And the second is that the integrated system does not overturn.
Definitely pack a fixing kit or at least some tape to fix your pad. Just came from a hiking trip were 2 pads I took to try out lost air, even with both I was so cold at night I had to wake up and repump my pads to wake up freezing after 2 hours again.
Hahahaaa.. ! Northern Canada here…minus 40 in the winter frequently for a month or so, otherwise approx -28 on a normal day. Most things freeze and break.. heck even propane gels at -45..
As many layers as you can get between you and the ground, yep. I’ve stacked my bed with pine boughs and whatever I could find..need a good 5 star sleeping bag ( -50 ), don’t forget your winter head covering. The cold will wake you up before you freeze to death but y9ull get a good 3-4 hours of sleep.
Super informative video! This past weekend was my first overnighter where it dropped below freezing. I was not cold whatsoever, given that I had a ton of layers too. Everything here is spot on!
I added two items to my sleeping system, a small tarp and a thin blanket/sheet. Both roll together nice in the sleeping bag or pad.
Generally the tarp is placed down first, as a barrier between the ground and pad. This does so many things, if the ground is damp, now you are on a dry surface. It also does a decent job at keeping creatures away. If it is windy, you can actually fold it in half, taco style, and fold the top over the bag and now you have a wind break; or even protection from rain/dew.
The blanket/sheet. Depending on the temps, I might place between the pad and bag. Use as an extra top layer. Or even as a pillow. Can also be warmed by the fire and tossed inside the bag to warm it up.
Additionally, the tarp can be used to make a hasty shelter or poncho.
Back before sleeping pads had the insulation rating, I was taught to put a wool blanket under neath my sleeping pad. It seemed to help.
I take a wool blanket and a sheepskin on tours in colder weather. It's heavy but so worth it!
Is it better to have it under the pad or between you and the pad?
Along with a windshield reflector I also use a vinyl shower curtain to keep it dry and when I sleep in a snow shelter in a bivy
EXCELLENT INFO! TY Stepped away from backpacking for 20 years. Fortunately, much of my equipment is still viable. Fast fwd, age 60 and needs have changed. There has been tremendous improvements in technology of equipment. Encourage everyone to research and learn. Don't give up on a passion. 🙂
The core principle of insulation is air space. Place two sheets of glass together and you get bone chilling cold. But put a 1/4 space of air and you get toasty. That applies to EVERY material you can find, even if it's pine branches or just plastic bags out of a dumpster. Instead of thinking R value, think COCOONS. The universe wants to steal your heat no matter how efficient your equipment is rated. The goal then is to slow that heat escape down to a snail's pace to get through the night. Every cocoon you build around yourself is another beaver dam for body heat.
That being said, two air mattresses with waffle style surfaces on top of each other do a great job of insulation. The first cocoon layer is your body in down, then squished down to top waffle, then the inner waffle of the top mat, then air space between waffles of each mat, then inner waffle of bottom mat, and then air spaces of waffles from bottom mat to bottom of tent. That's a lot of R value. Cheap air mats run about 1 lbs per mat (2 lbs total for 2x) and an expensive air mat with insulation runs about the 14-16 oz pack weight with far less functional R value. An high end air mattress runs about 1/2 lbs so 2x will be 1 lbs packing wgt. The advantage of two cheap mats is they can divided up for camp purposes other than sleeping. If one gets wet or muddy, it goes on the bottom. Punctured one? Mend it or use pine boughs and sleep on the last one. And you have year round sleep solution just by leaving one at home for the 3 season trips.
I house sit and travel between friends with little or no guest accommodations. Two inexpensive 2.5 inch thick air mattresses interlock their waffles to a 5 inch thickness and I can sleep on a bare hard floor with out touching bottom when I lay out flat. In fact, I generally refuse beds because the uniform comfort level of stacked air mattresses on the floor usually exceeds any extra mattress bed or sofa they can offer. An air mattress on a friend's sofa can avert that back problem in the morning.
Now ... sleeping bags. DOWN bags.
I used to keep a summer bag and an expedition down bag, though neither was a total solution. Now, I take a 750 goose down (750 duck down is oiler and heavier and the down is smaller) weighing 1-2 lbs., AND a down quilt at .8 lbs. I use the same stuff sack for both unless the weight needs to be divided for some reason. The "Cocoon R value" kicks in there too: down bag next to body, inserted and snapped inside a down quilt on the outside for second cocoon, tent for third cocoon, fly for fourth. Throw a nylon sheet over yourself and there's a fifth. Here, versatility helps too. You can keep the bag in the tent and wear the quilt around the fire or to run out to the cat hole. If you have condensation from the fly on your feet in the tent in the mornings, dew is on the water resistant quilt, not on your warmth bag, and it dries out faster than a foot box on a tree. Again, there's seasonal versatility as well: bag and quilt cocoon for winter, just the quilt for summer and just the bag for Fall and early spring. Now I don't have shelves of assorted down bags to store.
I do also have that small nylon sheet. It's a sand free beach sheet by design. It works as a shade tarp, a beach blanket, changing tipi, ground cloth to keep my bags clean, and thrown over my face, it's breathable and keeps my nose warm in winter, and sun out of my eyes if dawn glare doesn't appeal to me for another hour. It wrings by hand and dries in under 10 minutes (which makes it a decent cooling shelter). My friend woke and said she was freezing inside her sleeping gear, so I popped out the tiny stuff sac containing the beach sheet and shook the parachute over her. Within minutes she said she was already toasty. In the morning she admitted she slept well without further incident. Voila! The miracle of cocoons.
All in all, the cocoon system might sound like excess weight, but functionally with well chosen gear it's barely there in my pack. It's mulitpurpose, comfort, and has safety redundancy against hypothermia with quick recovery of use.
I use a sleeping bag insert $20. It encloses yr entire body, keeps the heat in. Very comfortable.
@@tonygosbee3390 Same cocoon principle of efficiency, but I can't seem to keep from getting tangled up in mine. I wind up boxing with it all night. If I'm sleeping on snow, I'll deal with it. I actually have two, one Coolmax and another stretch fleece with smooth outer surface. Kicks up less static spark. They DO come in handy. :)
That seems like A LOT of gear, lol
Our winter expedition courses in northern Maine involve potentially multiple days of temps well below zero. We require our students to have -20 degree bags but many get -40 bags. We also require students to use a two-pad sleeping system, typically an insulated inflatable bag on top of a traditional thick foam pad. We travel on skis hauling sleds with all of the heavy gear and wear backpacks stuffed with the lightweight down and insulated equipment.