If your C'thun gets thoughtstolen and you kill it after your opponent plays it, you can doomcall it. So: "If a friendly C'thun has died, shuffle a copy into your deck" Is still not always true.
Something I found out by accident. I played a Bolf Ramshield acquired from the Golden Monkey, my opponent played an 18 attack C'thun while i only had 4 hp and I did not lose any hp because Bolf does not actually die until C'thun's battlecry is completed so Bolf will continue to absorb all face damage even when he at 0 hp until battlecry is over with.
The Twin Emperor interaction feels right imo, because ritual cards give your C'thun a buff "wherever it is", so as long as it's in your collection, you should be golden.
A lot of people are dumb. If your c'thun is DEAD if it's poly morphed or burned then it's not dead, it doesn't exist anymore. I mean that's clear. A card is only considered dead in the graveyard if it was killed. If it was entombed or is on your opponent's side then it's not your c'thun anymore it's theirs jeez some people need to think
+extremerulercod maybe doom caller should read "If your c'thun is no longer in play shuffle a copy into your deck" then stealing wouldn't work because it'd no longer be your c'thun therefore your c'thun is no longer in play same with transform effects and mill. This would also stop brann from doubling as well as multiple doom callers. Sort of how brann doesn't effect skulker because skulkers own trigger is not met after the first battlecry.
+extremerulercod I agree with most of this. But in every other card game, except Hearthstone, discarded cards from your hand directly go into the gaveyard. This doesn't make sense at all, espacially since cards that get destroyed by Vanish or Sap can be resurrected.
However; if your C'thun is "No Longer in play" how do you check for that? You open a whole can of worms about how Death interacts with the board, and how No longer in play interacts with the board. and what REALLY is the justifiable difference between the two.
KingNothing1337 no longer in play would mean not in your hand, deck or on your side of the board quite simple really. The difference would be that when you build a deck centered around one card it can't be hard countered by a single card (sylvanas, entomb etc. )
Oh right Shadowcaster, another broken interaction. This is why Magic the Gathering created a very clear layering rule for how various types of stat-altering effects are applied. Instead, like with Scaled Nightmare, Blizzard just makes it up for each INDIVIDUAL card since they didn't bother to craft any actual rules, resulting in a multitude of contradicting and unintuitive outcomes. Things are just going to get worse and worse as they try to add new cards and mechanics... this is the kind of domino-effect procrastination I did as a kid in school. It's very unprofessional.
MTG has rulings and precedents. Its like a fucking legal system that will have different interactions depending on your officiator. At least I can memorize hearthstone interactions because they are consistent.
I've won so many matchups against C'thun warriors because of them playing their C'thun early against me not caring whether it dies because they've got Doomcallers I simply steal it then they play Doomcaller and concede and rage message me as soon as it doesn't put a copy in their deck. I always thought this was a pretty straight forward interaction since it's not longer theirs but apparently quite a few people don't think so. As soon as a minion is on your opponent's side of the board or in their deck it stops being your minion and that has always been the case. Following their logic that this shouldn't be the case then that would mean if I ever stole your minion and you cast a mass buff targeting all your minions it should affect the one on my side of the board as well since it's still "their" minion, which would be dumb. Lastly to any C'thun warrior players out there. If you simply hold your C'thun against me as priest and keep building him up to one shot me then you'll win far more often since priest is reactive it's kind of like how combo druid was a terrible matchup for priests post nerf. We don't deal with burst well. Hopefully none of you follow this advice and continue to use your 10 attack C'thuns early which I'll be more than happy to take.
So that would make the maximum missiles from one C'thun Battlecry 50...since if it triggers twice and your opponent somehow survived the first one, it would trigger again. Or are you saying that Bran Bronzebeard would somehow NOT trigger if the first battlecry is 100 missiles?
RedwoodTheElf No, I meant per battlecry, there can only be 100 missiles per battlecry, a C'thun can get to ridiculous amounts of missiles if you can activate the battlecry a lot.
Honestly, I find these videos extremely helpful. I've been playing for a while, (not extremely long) and find myself having trouble with certain interactions or why something worked when I didn't think it should have. My boyfriend introduced me to DisguisedToast and all of a sudden, my questions were answered! So thank you for being extremely helpful when I find myself confronted with a lack of clarity.
More complicated text and intuitive interactions is FAR better than ambiguous text and unintuitive interactions. This is one stance where I GREATLY disagree with Blizz and Ben Brode.
When someone doesnt notce that When sylvanas stołem C'thuna co it is not Your C'thuna or that entomb doesnt kill C'thuna, only szufle to deck And Think doomcaller will work simply cant read And Think.
+Lilz There isn't that much space on the cards for text. Plus, since it's a digital card game on multiple platforms. Blizzard can't control text resolution.
+Microsizeme do you not hear some of Toast's suggestions? You don't have to make the card text longer to make it more intuitive. Clearly the way we understand "your" is different than the way Blizz intended. This shows a difference in intuition.
+Arheont as Justice mentioned I am. There are several interactions which are not intuitive whatsoever, most namely the draw effect, and the idea that you can active "at least 10" effects without having him in the deck. If the animation doesn't display seems unintuitive to me.
Blizzard's design model is to have Hearthstone simple and easy to pick up. You may feel better with precise text but to casual player (one of HS's target markets), it can seem daunting. So unless you can provide blizzard with the income these masses of casuals provide, your argument is invalid.
It really doesn't matter if the wording is simple or complex as long as it's *right*. If Doomcaller puts a copy in your deck then it should say "copy". It doesn't make the card harder to understand if you simply write what the card does. It makes it less intuitive if you have to guess at whether or not the card is actually doing what it says it's supposed to do, however.
It does to Blizzard and that's how all cards that "resurrect" minions work in Hearthstone there is no "Graveyard" this isn't Yugioh the game just keeps track of what died what board it died on and how many times it died very simple and when you "resurrect" you just create a copy Hearthstone players are just expected to know this like the video said 99% of how this game works in layed out in the simple card texts the 1% that isn't allows room for discovery and I don't particularly mind that
Doesn't matter. If it doesn't say "copy" then the actual card should be moved from wherever it is to wherever it says it is to be moved. Also, Doomcaller was just one example. There are many examples of cards not working the way they're printed. Either program it to match the text or write the text to match the programming. This is like Digital Card Games 101 here.
The SilentCaay Channel Again you're supposed to know it's a copy you learn this stuff as you play by either testing an interaction or running into it by accident that's what I was talking about when I was talking about discovery the 1% of the game that isn't explicitly clear you got to learn for yourself and I don't deny that there are some funky interaction in hearthstone but this one is normal
I think its because Hearthstone doesn't really have a "Graveyard" it just has a list of things that have died this game. Dead minions are, effectually, completely removed from the game. Its only things like Resurrect, Doomcaller and Fugen/Stalag that reference the "things that have died this game" list and they never actually remove anything from the graveyard they just check to see if something is on the list.
The cards do say "where ever it is" so i guess it would buff it in your collection if you aren't playing it in your deck and that'd be how the interactions still work
What about Barnes? Will it summon a 1/1 that then gets the ritual buffs applied? And if you shadowstep a Barnes generated C'Thun, will it become a 6/6 plus buffs?
I just ate toast with Nutella without and then remembered what he always says at the end of videos. I do recommend eating some toast with Nutella while watching Disguised Toast videos I feel special now!
The video went from "facepalm" to "oh ok that's interesting". Seriously why did peopel think a stolen C'thun would be theirs anymore, or that a transformation would just be some kind of makeup? But awesome work Toast! There are some strange interactions indeed.
+Boris Johnson He is still in your collection. There is a reason Blizzard gave a free copy of C'Thun to everyone...There are no excuses. P.S.: This was a joke.
I agree 100%, the 10 atk requirements are not met when your c'thun isn't in your deck. The game even ignores the buff when a card attempts to apply them by not showing a C'thun Buff animation to the left. If there is no C'thun to buff then how is he 10 atk?
A c'thun deck where you'd have to play a pretty bad 8-drop to then shuffle a C'thun in to the cards you still have yet to draw. I personally do not see the benefits from doing so unless you're an unlucky soul who joined hearthstone before the c'thun promotion and haven't managed to get him from Wotog packs.
They should definitely fix the information disclosure. When a tempo mage plays the C'thun minion with spell damage just for the spell damage, the animation should not tell the opponent that there is no C'thun in the deck. C'thun should always appear.
It's wherever he is so your right he should get buffed still otherwise it should "give your C'thun +1/+1 if he's in your hand,deck or on the battlefield"
I kinda understood most of these things either by just understanding Hearthstone mechanics or having watched your previous videos about Hearthstone-mechanics. However, I didn't know that you could play Emperor Vek'Lor and get Emperor Vek'Nilash WITHOUT running C'Thun... that was really interesting so... thank you, Mr.Toast!
I've known about most of the "glitches" just from personal experience and problem solving. _"I casually gave C'thun +4/+4 and shuffled two _*_copies_*_ into my deck,"_ I bragged to my little brothers, like, last Saturday after a particularly epic stomp using Brann. _"Hmm... so even though my C'thun was silenced, Equality'd, and Humility'd, _*_"My C'thun"_*_ is still a 24/24. Interesting,"_ I remarked while practicing against the Innkeeper's tougher decks. I had already deduced that the cards in my deck and the minions on my board were not "My C'thun." They were more like an avatar of the little thing that keeps flashing whenever I play a buffing minion. What I did NOT deduce was that anything BUT that "flashing thing" were considered when dealing with "when Your C'thun has 10 attack" minions. Good on ya, Toast!
I think the Emperor triggering without having a C'Thun is a normal thing. The cards that buff C'Thun say "wherever it is". I think that also means if it's in your collection, so that's still your C'Thun and if it's on 10 attack or more, even if you don't have it in your deck, the Emperor battlecry triggers.
"The answer is a measly 100 missles. So you *might* be able to kill a Control Warrior with it...or at least remove half it's armor." That part cracked me up cause it's so dang true.
Entomb does kill based on the Hearthstone AI used in Solo Adventures. When a Horseman is Entombed, effects that trigger when the Horseman is dead will activate
There's also C'Thun's interaction with Shadowcaster, which will give you a 1/1 C'Thun without buffs (instead of a 1/1 base plus the buffs) but if you buff C'Thun while you have the copy in your hand, it will also grow. Very specific case, but worth to mention.
Hey Toast great vid, i encountered another C'Thun interaction that is pointless but fun. If you have C'Thun in your deck and you Forbidden Shaping for 10 and get C'Thun you get the buffs as well. It ties into the ritual buffs I know but it was still awesome when I just had C'Thun killed at 18 18 and then Bam! another 18 18 C'Thun
basically whenever youre faces with a descision remeber that buffs go to your hero not your cthun....and whatever doesnt trigger a minion's deathrattle wont trigger cthun's "death conditions" for example polymorph doesnt triggre deathrattle...milling doenst either so on....just remeber these two pieces of info and you're fine with just about every interaction
I know it's been 3 years, but I was playing the new Solo Adventure, first Chapter vs Plague Lord of Murlocs, and he used Plague of Murlocs to turn my 30+ Attack C'thun (I also had double battlecry thing as well ;-;) into a Murloc. So I didn't know about the first bug, and when I tried to place a copy of C'thun into my deck, I couldn't because he was transformed. Feelsfuckingbadman.
Amazing video. I wanted to make a control warrior deck similiar to old one, but the armor gain is really hard to throw out, so i was trying to fit in some c'thun cards, c'thun itself and twin emps just to make use of the ancient shieldbearers. Now i'm gonna make the deck without c'thun and twin emperors, 2 slots is a big deal.
You missed out 1 thing sir Toast. The C'Thun buffs also work if you don't have a C'Thun in your Deck at all. Meaning of this is that if you have the ancient shieldbearer(?) for example and buffed your imaginary C'Thun to a 10-10 the effect still works
The thing about Hearthstone is that a lot of things are much more abstract than you may think. For example there is no "graveyard." The closest thing Hearthstone has is a list of things that have died on each side of the battlefield. The interesting wording on C'thun cards means that a lot of effects are intended. "wherever it is." Strangely enough this can include your C'thun not even being in your deck as "wherever it is" could be your collection. If he stops being a free card at some point this might even encompass "your C'thun" being from the future because you haven't even opened him from a pack or crafted. On the other hand, Hearthstone could stand to be much more concrete. I think a lot of people assume that there is a graveyard and that you can interact with it instead of dealing with meta shenanigans. Case in point: I Mindgames the enemy C'thun, it is a 6/6 despite the enemy having buffed it. It died on my side and was randomly revived with Ressurect. I then played a stolen Doomcaller which gave me yet another copy of C'thun even though the only one I had was revived(thus no longer dead). It was the most meta game I have ever played and it showed all the glaring problems with the Hearthstone deck, graveyard, and C'thun ownership. The fact that the deck isn't even managed by things like Mistcaller and Ritual buffs is just pathetic.
Awesome video! I was thinking of a question when you presented one scenario and then lol, you brought up that question that I was thinking. I thought up another question, BAM, you discussed it. I tried thinking of of your toast face without glasses, didn't happen. 1/10 would not try again...
+Disguised Toast Another weird interaction I saw on Kripp's stream is if you copy C'Thun with Shadowcaster it doesn't take on the ritual buffs, just remains a 1/1
actually that's mist callers fuck up, the cards don't get their buffs till after you draw them, play em, ext, it's most notable with joust, but it's still how the card works, there wouldn't be a reason to check the deck if the buff doesn't get applied
10:40 One may argue that with the C'Thun buffs is the text reads "where ever it is", Since everyone has a C'thun in their collection, may the C'Thun gets buffed there and thus allows C'Thun cards to work even when you don't have one in your deck. Obviously, this is a total guess but maybe it's correct. It might actually be cool to see some TEMPORARY collection manipulations in the game (obviously not permanent). Something like "Discover a legendary card from your collection and reduce it's cost by 1".
Great vid :) Unless they can add some sort of * extra text to the cards then the description should cover all situations. If I was a new player and encountered some of these I would be so frustrated and confused that I might not even what to research online to find out why the interaction occurred
"How many missiles can we get out of C'Thun?" "Let's spend five hours getting him up to a million attack!" *5 hours later* "100, a MEASLY 1 FUCKING HUNDRED! BLLLLLIZZZARD!"
you know, it takes a lot of balls to tell Cthun to "get in there and fight, maggot!"
the abusive seargant has 'em i think ^^
5:50 it's nothin special but slowmo voice of loothoarder makes me laugh everytime i hear it ^^
+Ukuluku Shakalaka it was really funny ;p
Mind if I roll weed?
He sounds like he already did
HEEEEEEY GIIMME THAT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUGH
hoarding ogre is what it sounds like to me that should be a thing xD
more like hoarding ogre
If your C'thun gets thoughtstolen and you kill it after your opponent plays it, you can doomcall it. So:
"If a friendly C'thun has died, shuffle a copy into your deck" Is still not always true.
+Stripe up this comment for toast
+Stripe link the video or it doesn't happen the way you say it.
As explained in the video, "your c'thun" referees to the one on your side of the board, not the one you played.
+Stripe Got sauce on that?
Will a C'Thun created by Shadowcaster receive the buffs?
Great information Toast! Keep up the good work!
+Aleksander Thorstensen Proud of you
They grow up so fast 😭
Toast Nation
Great information Reddit! Thanks for making the video toast.
Yeah but how DO face shamans sleep at night?
Like a baby...an evil and corrupted baby...
Face Shamans make me sick to the core.
BY FIRE BE PURGED, SHAMAN INSECTS!
+Ragnaros The Firelord i feel you.....EVEN THAT I PLAY CTHUN I GET ****ED UP BY SHAMANS AND SOME ZOO
+Ikou Zaki Well we now know the issue. You need a Ragnaros, and also the Lightlord Ragnaros. You can never have to many Ragnari.
+Ginger Dwarf In my experience, usually while listening to Cryaotic and lying on my left side. Nice name btw.
+Ginger Dwarf I never get enough rest and I wake up feeling like crap, but I am pretty sure it's my bed ;P
Something I found out by accident. I played a Bolf Ramshield acquired from the Golden Monkey, my opponent played an 18 attack C'thun while i only had 4 hp and I did not lose any hp because Bolf does not actually die until C'thun's battlecry is completed so Bolf will continue to absorb all face damage even when he at 0 hp until battlecry is over with.
I believe that is intentional, but hey. Looks like Bolf had some value!
would this make it a decent tech card to have against c'thun decks?
The Twin Emperor interaction feels right imo, because ritual cards give your C'thun a buff "wherever it is", so as long as it's in your collection, you should be golden.
3:43 "cthun rule34" I see what ya did there, Toast Kappa
***** Look what he googled
How did you see that so quick? I had to slow down the video..
Athanatov I watched enough of Toast's videos to always pause in the moment where he googles something :P
I only found 8 images on rule 34 tho.
I just googled it, I regret now everything.
"What can I replace C'Thun with in C'Thun druid?"
"Moonfire should work."
0:46, oh that's easy, they just dive face-first into the pillow ;)
dude, that's hunter
That "Hey, give me that. AAHHHH" in slowmo... gachiGASM
"so you can kill a control warrior.. *shows picture of justicar* or atleast some of the armor" I died xD getting tired of this armor shenanigans
Vayne.. tired... of..... tanks.. Kappa
+mZStarCraft yeah just ekko though, because he has tankyness and cancer in one neat sandwich
+Magnus Varne DONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINKDONTBLINK
+Magnus Varne Armor should be capped :/
at least cw will lose one shield slam
A lot of people are dumb. If your c'thun is DEAD if it's poly morphed or burned then it's not dead, it doesn't exist anymore. I mean that's clear. A card is only considered dead in the graveyard if it was killed. If it was entombed or is on your opponent's side then it's not your c'thun anymore it's theirs jeez some people need to think
+extremerulercod maybe doom caller should read "If your c'thun is no longer in play shuffle a copy into your deck" then stealing wouldn't work because it'd no longer be your c'thun therefore your c'thun is no longer in play same with transform effects and mill. This would also stop brann from doubling as well as multiple doom callers. Sort of how brann doesn't effect skulker because skulkers own trigger is not met after the first battlecry.
+isabelle murray with that wording out should add a c' thun in your deck even if you had none in the first place ,
right?
+extremerulercod
I agree with most of this. But in every other card game, except Hearthstone, discarded cards from your hand directly go into the gaveyard. This doesn't make sense at all, espacially since cards that get destroyed by Vanish or Sap can be resurrected.
However; if your C'thun is "No Longer in play" how do you check for that? You open a whole can of worms about how Death interacts with the board, and how No longer in play interacts with the board. and what REALLY is the justifiable difference between the two.
KingNothing1337 no longer in play would mean not in your hand, deck or on your side of the board quite simple really. The difference would be that when you build a deck centered around one card it can't be hard countered by a single card (sylvanas, entomb etc. )
Dat slowed loot hoarder tho.
hhheeyyyyy, gggiiimmmeeee ttthhaaaatttt
Dark Matter Pancake AAAAAAUUUUUUUUUggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
I laughed and farted because of the laugh, then I realised a little poop came out.
Then I realised a lot of poop came out.
_Heeeeey, giiiiimmeeeee daaaat!_
*crunch*
_AUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!_
5:51
And shadowcaster? this 1/1 c'thun is MY c'thun.
Yeah thats a big facepalm
+BR atack The 1/1 debuff applies after you get the copy.
it's a COPY of your cthun
Oh right Shadowcaster, another broken interaction.
This is why Magic the Gathering created a very clear layering rule for how various types of stat-altering effects are applied.
Instead, like with Scaled Nightmare, Blizzard just makes it up for each INDIVIDUAL card since they didn't bother to craft any actual rules, resulting in a multitude of contradicting and unintuitive outcomes.
Things are just going to get worse and worse as they try to add new cards and mechanics... this is the kind of domino-effect procrastination I did as a kid in school. It's very unprofessional.
MTG has rulings and precedents. Its like a fucking legal system that will have different interactions depending on your officiator. At least I can memorize hearthstone interactions because they are consistent.
I've won so many matchups against C'thun warriors because of them playing their C'thun early against me not caring whether it dies because they've got Doomcallers I simply steal it then they play Doomcaller and concede and rage message me as soon as it doesn't put a copy in their deck. I always thought this was a pretty straight forward interaction since it's not longer theirs but apparently quite a few people don't think so. As soon as a minion is on your opponent's side of the board or in their deck it stops being your minion and that has always been the case. Following their logic that this shouldn't be the case then that would mean if I ever stole your minion and you cast a mass buff targeting all your minions it should affect the one on my side of the board as well since it's still "their" minion, which would be dumb. Lastly to any C'thun warrior players out there. If you simply hold your C'thun against me as priest and keep building him up to one shot me then you'll win far more often since priest is reactive it's kind of like how combo druid was a terrible matchup for priests post nerf. We don't deal with burst well. Hopefully none of you follow this advice and continue to use your 10 attack C'thuns early which I'll be more than happy to take.
I meant pre nerf woops.
I think that Blizard meant that when Cthun change the side he change the power He gives to you, because He is god. That might be the case.
Cool
+Blaze Taleo Coool
+1998SIMOMEGA Sorry, I meant pre-nerf. Typo.
But cards buff C'thun "wherever it is", so if you have C'thun in your collection it must work as intended Kappa
You put Kappa at the end of that sentence but a lot of people are genuinely going with that thought process.
That loot hoarder slowmo quote was so epic!!
"Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeey... Giiiiimmmeeee thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!"
That max missiles number...you can double it with Bran Bronzebeard of course.
+RedwoodTheElf ahahahah no
+GlacialWolf <----- True, max missiles from ONE C'thun is still 100
So that would make the maximum missiles from one C'thun Battlecry 50...since if it triggers twice and your opponent somehow survived the first one, it would trigger again. Or are you saying that Bran Bronzebeard would somehow NOT trigger if the first battlecry is 100 missiles?
RedwoodTheElf No, I meant per battlecry, there can only be 100 missiles per battlecry, a C'thun can get to ridiculous amounts of missiles if you can activate the battlecry a lot.
Almost Dragonborn
Well Glacial said "no" to my comment that Bran would double the 100 missiles to 200...and you agreed with him, thus my comment.
"Whereever it is" applies to not having cthun in your deck, as long as you have it in your collection.
butt
Honestly, I find these videos extremely helpful. I've been playing for a while, (not extremely long) and find myself having trouble with certain interactions or why something worked when I didn't think it should have. My boyfriend introduced me to DisguisedToast and all of a sudden, my questions were answered! So thank you for being extremely helpful when I find myself confronted with a lack of clarity.
More complicated text and intuitive interactions is FAR better than ambiguous text and unintuitive interactions. This is one stance where I GREATLY disagree with Blizz and Ben Brode.
When someone doesnt notce that When sylvanas stołem C'thuna co it is not Your C'thuna or that entomb doesnt kill C'thuna, only szufle to deck And Think doomcaller will work simply cant read And Think.
+Lilz There isn't that much space on the cards for text. Plus, since it's a digital card game on multiple platforms. Blizzard can't control text resolution.
+Microsizeme do you not hear some of Toast's suggestions? You don't have to make the card text longer to make it more intuitive. Clearly the way we understand "your" is different than the way Blizz intended. This shows a difference in intuition.
+Arheont as Justice mentioned I am. There are several interactions which are not intuitive whatsoever, most namely the draw effect, and the idea that you can active "at least 10" effects without having him in the deck. If the animation doesn't display seems unintuitive to me.
Blizzard's design model is to have Hearthstone simple and easy to pick up. You may feel better with precise text but to casual player (one of HS's target markets), it can seem daunting. So unless you can provide blizzard with the income these masses of casuals provide, your argument is invalid.
Love the hidden reference with "how many flamestrikes in arena is too much?" from Krip :D
It really doesn't matter if the wording is simple or complex as long as it's *right*. If Doomcaller puts a copy in your deck then it should say "copy". It doesn't make the card harder to understand if you simply write what the card does. It makes it less intuitive if you have to guess at whether or not the card is actually doing what it says it's supposed to do, however.
I think it should be fine if it was complicated, just look at yugioh. but nobody would read it if it was too long.
It does to Blizzard and that's how all cards that "resurrect" minions work in Hearthstone there is no "Graveyard" this isn't Yugioh the game just keeps track of what died what board it died on and how many times it died very simple and when you "resurrect" you just create a copy Hearthstone players are just expected to know this like the video said 99% of how this game works in layed out in the simple card texts the 1% that isn't allows room for discovery and I don't particularly mind that
Doesn't matter. If it doesn't say "copy" then the actual card should be moved from wherever it is to wherever it says it is to be moved. Also, Doomcaller was just one example. There are many examples of cards not working the way they're printed. Either program it to match the text or write the text to match the programming. This is like Digital Card Games 101 here.
The SilentCaay Channel
Again you're supposed to know it's a copy you learn this stuff as you play by either testing an interaction or running into it by accident that's what I was talking about when I was talking about discovery the 1% of the game that isn't explicitly clear you got to learn for yourself and I don't deny that there are some funky interaction in hearthstone but this one is normal
I think its because Hearthstone doesn't really have a "Graveyard" it just has a list of things that have died this game. Dead minions are, effectually, completely removed from the game. Its only things like Resurrect, Doomcaller and Fugen/Stalag that reference the "things that have died this game" list and they never actually remove anything from the graveyard they just check to see if something is on the list.
The cards do say "where ever it is" so i guess it would buff it in your collection if you aren't playing it in your deck and that'd be how the interactions still work
What about Barnes? Will it summon a 1/1 that then gets the ritual buffs applied? And if you shadowstep a Barnes generated C'Thun, will it become a 6/6 plus buffs?
Excellent video. Keep it up toast! I love your videos man
Lolool just realised that this guy is toast sounds just like disguised toast :DD I've always thought that it says this guy is toast
It does...
Wow you're so slow he actually has a video where he plays allot of these misheard quotes
What if I haven't watched his other videos bitch.
wertza720
Then go watch it but you don't need to to get the joke
Here's a useful interaction. If you play a C'thun next to Dire Wolf Alpha it counts the buff before the battlecry so you get 2 extra missiles.
hhhheeeeeyyy ggimmme tthaaaat... aaaaaaaaaah
Toast probably make the best quality videos I have ever watched.
9:53 naked picture of ragnoros, LOL
I just wish this C'thun-like mechanic came back in some later expansion
A1: No such thing as too many FS in Arena.
A2: They sleep great at night on their water bed made from the tears of their opponents.
I just ate toast with Nutella without and then remembered what he always says at the end of videos.
I do recommend eating some toast with Nutella while watching Disguised Toast videos
I feel special now!
The text should be clear, not just simple. While most of these are obvious, Blizzard still has trouble being consistent.
The video went from "facepalm" to "oh ok that's interesting". Seriously why did peopel think a stolen C'thun would be theirs anymore, or that a transformation would just be some kind of makeup? But awesome work Toast! There are some strange interactions indeed.
I feel like that if C'thun isn't in your deck then minions that get buffed by C'thun being at 10 attack should not trigger.
+Boris Johnson He is still in your collection. There is a reason Blizzard gave a free copy of C'Thun to everyone...There are no excuses.
P.S.: This was a joke.
(Wherever it is?)
That's a dumb feeling. The buff is on the player not the card.
I agree 100%, the 10 atk requirements are not met when your c'thun isn't in your deck. The game even ignores the buff when a card attempts to apply them by not showing a C'thun Buff animation to the left. If there is no C'thun to buff then how is he 10 atk?
Josh Wright Because he's in you collection which is part of the ambiguous "wherever"
4:03 I love how he said that was a mistake 😂😂
I think Doomcaller should just add a Cthun to your deck if you don't have one on board, deck, or hand.
+Matthew Kessler Then you could just create C'thun decks without C'thun
+Matthew Kessler
This comment deserves more attention! Your idea is a simple, intuitive solution to Doomcaller-C'Thun interactions.
+Matthew Kessler I think it would be OP.
A c'thun deck where you'd have to play a pretty bad 8-drop to then shuffle a C'thun in to the cards you still have yet to draw. I personally do not see the benefits from doing so unless you're an unlucky soul who joined hearthstone before the c'thun promotion and haven't managed to get him from Wotog packs.
cthun isn't a promotion, 3 free packs was. you get cthun free with your first pack guaranteed, whenever it is.
When a minion is ployed, it's different. It's not that minion anymore, it's basically gone for ever
They should definitely fix the information disclosure. When a tempo mage plays the C'thun minion with spell damage just for the spell damage, the animation should not tell the opponent that there is no C'thun in the deck. C'thun should always appear.
It's wherever he is so your right he should get buffed still otherwise it should "give your C'thun +1/+1 if he's in your hand,deck or on the battlefield"
5:50 Lol you should do a slow mo hearthstone sounds video like this one, could be pretty funny
why you search naked picks of ragnaros WHY
very good explantations about cthun mechanics! thnx Toast!
wtf naked pics of ragnaros ? lol
Druid: _"My hand is too full!"_
CThun: _"Well. Met."_
_CThun card gets torned_
Innkeeper: _"Ha, caught one!"_ XD
Can't believe people needed an entire video on the subject. Knowing how hearthstone mechanics work, this was pretty obvious to me.
I kinda understood most of these things either by just understanding Hearthstone mechanics or having watched your previous videos about Hearthstone-mechanics.
However, I didn't know that you could play Emperor Vek'Lor and get Emperor Vek'Nilash WITHOUT running C'Thun... that was really interesting so... thank you, Mr.Toast!
The most broken interaction is Redemption with C'thun. C'thun comes back to life with full health instead of one.
I've known about most of the "glitches" just from personal experience and problem solving.
_"I casually gave C'thun +4/+4 and shuffled two _*_copies_*_ into my deck,"_ I bragged to my little brothers, like, last Saturday after a particularly epic stomp using Brann.
_"Hmm... so even though my C'thun was silenced, Equality'd, and Humility'd, _*_"My C'thun"_*_ is still a 24/24. Interesting,"_ I remarked while practicing against the Innkeeper's tougher decks.
I had already deduced that the cards in my deck and the minions on my board were not "My C'thun." They were more like an avatar of the little thing that keeps flashing whenever I play a buffing minion.
What I did NOT deduce was that anything BUT that "flashing thing" were considered when dealing with "when Your C'thun has 10 attack" minions. Good on ya, Toast!
When it gets transformed, it's changed and it didn't die. Only the transformed minion dies.
Damn toast those are exactly two questions I've been wondering about the flame strike and how face shamans sleep.
this channel actually gives me useful info about the game that I didnt already know...
I think the Emperor triggering without having a C'Thun is a normal thing. The cards that buff C'Thun say "wherever it is". I think that also means if it's in your collection, so that's still your C'Thun and if it's on 10 attack or more, even if you don't have it in your deck, the Emperor battlecry triggers.
Now I understand the "Wherever it is". You can buff it while its in your collection as well
i love how he showed chan a person who is showed to be incompetent as a teacher
"The answer is a measly 100 missles. So you *might* be able to kill a Control Warrior with it...or at least remove half it's armor." That part cracked me up cause it's so dang true.
That sound when twin emp Copies is sooooo satisfying
awesome vid as usual
Your content keeps getting better, Toasty! Keep it up man. :)
Entomb does kill based on the Hearthstone AI used in Solo Adventures. When a Horseman is Entombed, effects that trigger when the Horseman is dead will activate
"This one actually has useful information" WELL ITS ABOUT TIME
Toast is getting a life sentence from Blizzard for this video. RIP Toast BibleThump
There's also C'Thun's interaction with Shadowcaster, which will give you a 1/1 C'Thun without buffs (instead of a 1/1 base plus the buffs) but if you buff C'Thun while you have the copy in your hand, it will also grow. Very specific case, but worth to mention.
He's right about the Doomcaller thing. I have a golden one and he shuffles in a golden C'thun despite me never crafting it golden.
That's amazing video, again. More bugs, more cool stuff to know ) Thanks man!
You forgot another "weird" interaction:
If you use Shadowcaster on C'thun, the 1/1 copy that you get doesn't have the ritual buffs.
Hey Toast great vid, i encountered another C'Thun interaction that is pointless but fun. If you have C'Thun in your deck and you Forbidden Shaping for 10 and get C'Thun you get the buffs as well. It ties into the ritual buffs I know but it was still awesome when I just had C'Thun killed at 18 18 and then Bam! another 18 18 C'Thun
basically whenever youre faces with a descision remeber that buffs go to your hero not your cthun....and whatever doesnt trigger a minion's deathrattle wont trigger cthun's "death conditions" for example polymorph doesnt triggre deathrattle...milling doenst either so on....just remeber these two pieces of info and you're fine with just about every interaction
One of the best videos Toast!!! gratz on that, and ty for this hard work
I know it's been 3 years, but I was playing the new Solo Adventure, first Chapter vs Plague Lord of Murlocs, and he used Plague of Murlocs to turn my 30+ Attack C'thun (I also had double battlecry thing as well ;-;) into a Murloc. So I didn't know about the first bug, and when I tried to place a copy of C'thun into my deck, I couldn't because he was transformed. Feelsfuckingbadman.
Another interaction is when a C'Thun gets redeemed by the Paladin redemption secret, it is not set to 1 health, it is set to the ritual buff health
i really like your videos man, awesome work!
Amazing video.
I wanted to make a control warrior deck similiar to old one, but the armor gain is really hard to throw out, so i was trying to fit in some c'thun cards, c'thun itself and twin emps just to make use of the ancient shieldbearers.
Now i'm gonna make the deck without c'thun and twin emperors, 2 slots is a big deal.
i agree with the "if your cthun has 10 or more attack" has to be changed to if the counter of attack of your cthun is at 10 or more
I'm not gonna lie, that loot horder's slowed down voice was the best part of the vid.
You missed out 1 thing sir Toast.
The C'Thun buffs also work if you don't have a C'Thun in your Deck at all. Meaning of this is that if you have the ancient shieldbearer(?) for example and buffed your imaginary C'Thun to a 10-10 the effect still works
"Mind if I roll weed" slow motion makes loot hoarder sound high as fuck
Extremely helpful! Thanks alot!
That slow-mo Loot Hoarder Battlecry though.
The thing about Hearthstone is that a lot of things are much more abstract than you may think. For example there is no "graveyard." The closest thing Hearthstone has is a list of things that have died on each side of the battlefield. The interesting wording on C'thun cards means that a lot of effects are intended. "wherever it is." Strangely enough this can include your C'thun not even being in your deck as "wherever it is" could be your collection. If he stops being a free card at some point this might even encompass "your C'thun" being from the future because you haven't even opened him from a pack or crafted.
On the other hand, Hearthstone could stand to be much more concrete. I think a lot of people assume that there is a graveyard and that you can interact with it instead of dealing with meta shenanigans. Case in point: I Mindgames the enemy C'thun, it is a 6/6 despite the enemy having buffed it. It died on my side and was randomly revived with Ressurect. I then played a stolen Doomcaller which gave me yet another copy of C'thun even though the only one I had was revived(thus no longer dead). It was the most meta game I have ever played and it showed all the glaring problems with the Hearthstone deck, graveyard, and C'thun ownership. The fact that the deck isn't even managed by things like Mistcaller and Ritual buffs is just pathetic.
Awesome video! I was thinking of a question when you presented one scenario and then lol, you brought up that question that I was thinking.
I thought up another question, BAM, you discussed it.
I tried thinking of of your toast face without glasses, didn't happen. 1/10 would not try again...
They should still trigger. It's the fear and foreboding that gives them power, not C'thun himself.
+Disguised Toast Another weird interaction I saw on Kripp's stream is if you copy C'Thun with Shadowcaster it doesn't take on the ritual buffs, just remains a 1/1
I am worried that people can't read texts with understanding.
10:25 RIP Brann, created too many ooze and was brought to justice by an ogre
First time I found the channel, "Must be a comedy channel" vs now "GRANT ME YOUR KNOLEDGE OH GREAT AND NOT LAZY ONE!"
it also checks your deck. c'thun doesn't actually have its buffs until it's drawn, and that's why the mistcaller didn't work
actually that's mist callers fuck up, the cards don't get their buffs till after you draw them, play em, ext, it's most notable with joust, but it's still how the card works, there wouldn't be a reason to check the deck if the buff doesn't get applied
the (where ever it is) text can refer to your collection
10:40 One may argue that with the C'Thun buffs is the text reads "where ever it is", Since everyone has a C'thun in their collection, may the C'Thun gets buffed there and thus allows C'Thun cards to work even when you don't have one in your deck. Obviously, this is a total guess but maybe it's correct. It might actually be cool to see some TEMPORARY collection manipulations in the game (obviously not permanent). Something like "Discover a legendary card from your collection and reduce it's cost by 1".
You missed talking about C'Thun killing an opposing Sylvanias with C'Thun's battle cry.
Great vid :)
Unless they can add some sort of * extra text to the cards then the description should cover all situations. If I was a new player and encountered some of these I would be so frustrated and confused that I might not even what to research online to find out why the interaction occurred
Was eating toast when watching and then you said "dont forget to eat some toast" :D
May I just say that this guy has the single best username pun on the internet?
Because he does.
The fact that doom caller brings back the stats you had of the first played Cthun is ridiculous. It should change it down to a 6/6 again
"How many missiles can we get out of C'Thun?" "Let's spend five hours getting him up to a million attack!"
*5 hours later* "100, a MEASLY 1 FUCKING HUNDRED! BLLLLLIZZZARD!"