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Oro: I'm sure he was difficult and unpleasant to train under. *Mato: Gives you a nail art for free, allows you to sleep under his house and sees you as his pupil* *Oro: Makes you pay 800 for nail art, Hates you and your guts, wants nothing to do with you* Me: Wow you're one to talk Oro
@@mysteriouscat1098 I know what that's like. TSUNDEREPLANE STOP GETTING SO FLUSTERED WHEN SOMEONE SIMPLY MAKES A SOUND. ITS KINDA WEIRD AND YOUR A TSUNDERE. YOU SHOULD GET FLUSTERED WHEN SOMEONE FLIRTS AND GETS CLOSE TO YOU.
In Mato's dreamnail dialogue in the Pantheon, he says: "Don't leave me behind!" I think this means that they could've had a fight about Oro leaving to go on his own
I'm just gonna say that since I dropped that 'O' from my name I was finally in peace with my past and free to dedicate myself to my true passion, making music from my Howling Cliff. Oh, Master, I even found a promoter!
17:35 Maybe THAT'S what Oro ows Mato! A proper fight side by side, that Oro never gave him; even after all their Masters teachings, Oro holds in his heart the sentiment, that he SHOULD be stronger alone since he (possibly) always was the stronger one who looked after his brothers. In wanting to be so strong that he could protect his brothers all by himself, he instead turned on them and pushed them away entirely.
@@tomasapud8240 yeah... AND HE IS POWERFUL. AND ALL HES USING IS PAINT. HES STRONGER THAN THE 2 OTHER BROTHERS COMBINED. WITH PAINT. The pen is mightier than the sword it has no limitation.
There's Dream Nail dialogue in the Brothers Oro and Mato fight for Mato that says "Don't leave me behind!" I assumed that was what caused the divide- Oro thought he had to fight alone, but Mato considered fighting together to be most important, and felt like Oro was abandoning him.
Maybe the dummy's dream nail dialogue was just what the hopper heard Oro say as he killed and/or propped it up.... If the dummy is basically ment to be Mato, then Oro must of been talking to it. (No like he's got anyone else to talk to..)
@@absolite6 You can sometimes get dream nail dialogue from statues. Likely the dreams poured in from those who have focused a lot on them. So my theory is just that Oro has been so focused on the training dummy that his desires/dreams have etched themselves on the dummy.
@@ExileTwilight I don't understand how I haven't seen anyone actually say what it is here. It's not just a training dummy, it's a corpse of a great hopper. The 'brothers' is in reference to the great hoppers that come to attack you if you keep nailing the corpse. The wanderer's journal supports this.
@@ExileTwilight your point? The fact that it's a corpse means the dreamnail dialogue came from the hopper, probably its last thoughts. It couldn't have come from anywhere else. And like I said, the brothers are in reference to the great hopper's kin that are in hiding.
@@BlappetureCO So is the Dashmaster enshrined in his statue? Is the Radiance in the statue at the crown of hallownest? Living things or corpses are not the only things that can carry 'dreams', enough focus on an object can also make it resonate with those dreams.
In some stories... Or maybe Sly's wife in a way... And she is a mother figure to them which probably why the brothers are are arguing... Well there is a version of that... My version would be something like taking out on *Chinese fantasy kungfu and sword fighting art* drama: I mean for my version this is how it goes: Esmy is Sly's younger sister. Mato is probably in love with Esmy. But when Mato, Esmy, Oro and Sly go to some place together... Somehow Esmy got infected... Sly can't let go Esmy when she got infected by Radiant. Sly can't give the finishing blow as that is his sister. Mato well... That's his lover. So surely he becine clueless on what to do. Oro took the sacrifice and dealt finishing blow to Esmy and that caused Mato to become angry and express hatred also lost all reasoning and fight Oro until they somehow come to an agreement or maybe they respect Sheo who arrived late and then move with different path and they told a different story of what happened to Esmy. Sheo who also probably saw Esmy's dead body, and having heard stories from both made him confused and lives in Greenpath secluding himself in thorny area trying to move on by learning different arts. Indulge himself in the arts of creation which is opposite to the arts of nails that caused death... Maybe Sheo is also trying to forget what happened to Esmy but also sad upon what happens between his brothers and even more sad since he himself doesn't have any clear idea of what had transpired between them. While Oro and Mato lives far apart from each other's. Esmy death must have caused Sly to be heartbroken that he probably treading the and following the infection because he wanted to avenge his sister's death by destroying the infection but his mind was also in disarray which caused Sly's mind to be infected until The Knight found him. Sly doesn't blame any of his pupils since he still has reasoning... And then Sly finally comes to terms after saved by the Knights. Or at least this is my version of stories about those Nailsages... 😅😅😅😅😅
@@viperakmal interesting theory. His seclusion in kingdoms edge could also be him attempting to stay away from people as to not hurt them anymore. But at the same time the theme of love isn’t something I see in hollow knight. Either way it’s fun to think about.
I just thought he owed money. I mean he IS the only one who makes you pay geo for the nail art. But that's a boring conclusion so im glad this video exists!
I have a small feeling that esmy was the great nailsage before sly, because ‘how much deeper do we have to go?’ Sounds less like training someone else, more of being trained in high stakes. Also, by the logic that all nailmasters have o at the end of their name, sly and esmy have y at the end of their names.
Maybe Esmy was Sly’s sister? The “How much deeper do we have to go” could’ve been them together training under high stakes, like you said. From what we know so far, siblings tend to share the last letter of their names, and like you mentioned, Sly and Esmy both end with “Y”
I was kinda meh on the whole theory until you pointed out that they are called "Brothers Oro and Mato" instead of nailmasters. Thats badass. And also what i love about this game. You think a theory is all speculation but Team Cherry slips you a little hint that is clearly intentional and then it all comes together in this complete story. Awesome vid! Also mossbag was a lore checker on this??? Very cool.
If Esmy is connected to the training dummy. Then the line "Esmy how much deeper do we have to go" makes sense, since there is a cracked floor tile in the same room. And it leads to the Ancient Nailsmith and a lot of Geo. Maybe Esmy (or Sly) were searching for the Ancient Nailsmith.
Me, ignoring everything said as I watch Sheo paint the Nailsmith Alternatively; Me, ignoring everything said as my goblin brain froths at the mouth from the amazing visuals, word building and art style: Holllowe NKnite
Little people notice how the fight is done, they keep switching stances as when someone is done their attack, the other brother comes forward to protect the other with a pary. Love the concept and i want esmy in silksong
I believe the dummy is a representation of Oro, he has stronger brothers, I think it’s a way for team cherry to show what Oro’s struggle is, that being the hard to swallow fact that even tho he is very overconfident, he isn’t as strong as his brothers.
Ngl pretty sure mato saved oro in a way that dishonored oro, which is why he is owed something, but ashamed and does not show until needed in the pantheon
@@Ccmacihonestly i dont think oro is physically stronger than either of his brothers. when waking up sly, he says the line "oro... you wield your nail... like a club". he mightve just said one of the three brothers at random, but he *did* specifically say oro. along with the "stronger... brothers..." dream dialogue from the training dummy, i believe oro was always the weakest of the three. this explains why hes so fixated on "proving himself", aka proving hes worthy of his brothers. thats where his lone wolf mentality stems from, why decided to part on his own, leaving mato behind, leading to the whole conflict
Possible incorporation of both ideas: What Mato *wanted* was an apology, but, true to Oro being stubborn and saying things he doesn't necessarily mean, Oro *promises him* a duel to the death. Hence Mato won't forget what Oro 'owes' him and never will, in much the way siblings will hold something stupid you said over your head for a considerable time. Oro has since cooled down and has no desire to duel his brother anymore, but also doesn't want to go against his word.
Lol I always thought that Oro had killed a hidden fourth brother with deformed skull and tied him to the pole (as opposed to it just being a training dummy with a great hopper's skull)
I noticed a long time ago that in the first pantheon, you don't fight against Nailmasters Oro and Mato, you fight against Brothers Oro and Mato, and I'm so glad to see it highlighted in this way. Thank you for making this video which doesn't just explain lore, but, even without a concrete answer to what happened in the past, puts together the wonderful story Team Cherry has told.
I don't remember completely, but if you Dream Nail one of the bros during their god fight, it says something along the line of "Brothers always fight together!"
This put the Oro and Mato boss fight into a whole new perspective. I will never not look at the fight and think "What a beautifully done story hidden through so few lines of dialogue." It gives the fight both a darker and brighter feel at the same time
I still find it a bit strange that Sheo calls Kingdom's Edge an "ash swept grave". I'm fairly certain that the Nail Masters don't know the corpse of the Pail King's first form lies there. Is grave referring to something else? Also, why is Oro's home the only way to the secret underground section with the very ominous geo boulder, mushroom tablet, AND ancient nail smith? I think its also worth noting what each brother takes with them to their homes. Oro seems to have a lot of stuff from the aristocratic sections of the City of Tears. I'm seeing a lot of geo being thrown around, and I find it interesting how much Sly thinks of trading with geo to be the same if not better than using a nail. Maybe this mystery requires looking more into Sly's past than you might think.
The nailmasters were around when the 5 great knights existed, so I wouldn't be surprised if during all this time since then he heard rumors about the beacon, but who knows.
@@sevdrakegavial Well, considering I am a girl that makes sense, astute observation xD I'm not great at making my voice sound lower so I hope you'll forgive me for sparing you that
lol you could work as anime protoganist voice actor. ( because females voice dont change drasticly over time it works for making a long term show and no offense but i kinda sounded like a guy for a while when doing sheo untill i realized it was a female voic acting) but i bet u knew all of this considering u are a girl.
You know what I love about cc's videos? The fact that he takes little bits of lore that I would never think to consider and fleshes them out into full on theories
Meanshile Sheo: nailsmith, look at what I have made Nailsmith: OMG thats so beautiful Sheo: thank you, Im gonna put this one at the window so we can appreciate it together
I always thought that the dummy's dream nail dialog belonged to the dead great hopper. After you slap it, two other great hoppers fall from the sky and -give you a heart attack- attack you. So maybe they were it's brothers? that would make 3 and serve as an interesting parallel to the 3 nailmaster's. 2 that fight together and one that is dead (Oro and Mato eventually fight together again in godhome and Sheo would be dead metaphorically because he gave up his life as a nailmaster)
The nail masters were always one of my favorite story lines in hollow knight. It's so wholesome to see them lock eyes and yell gasssoooo in the pantheon like whatever shit they had between them was completely put aside
Just about the godhome part, I’m pretty sure godhome is meant to return bosses to their prime, as an example take PV, godhome’s strongest ver of Hollow There’s also the fact this is in the godseekers dream so couldn’t contain the current oro and Mato since the only beings able to traverse dreams are those with dream related abilities eg. Radi, Nkg or godseeker This would mean that the conflict between the brothers was never resolved and this was just a vision of what their relationship used to be before it fell apart Great video though! I really like your theories on the brothers, it makes me appreciate their characters and dialogue even more :>
Actually for all intents and purposes, the bosses are their real selves. This is proven by characters such as Hornet and Grimm showing awareness of where they are and what's going on.
@@akapilka Ok, grimm being a higher being checks out. But, I'm not really sure about Hornet, and we have no evidence in the favor of or against either option.
Hornet is the daughter of the pale king. She is 50% higher being.While grim is 100% higher being. That's why hornet is confused during the Pantheon, and grim knows exactly what's going on, just like the knight.
This is one of those videos where you would never expect to watch the whole thing, but somehow its so interesting and captivating that i can't take my eyes away... the view count baffles me. You should be in the millions
Actually, oro and mato played a game of monopoly when they were younger, and oro landed on mato's boardwalk hotel, so he ran away so he wouldn't have to pay. The dummy oro has isnt dead, its an incredibly intelligent great hopper that he practices monopoly against, in the hopes of one day beating his brother
Bro this video is SO well made! The analysis, the possible paths, the actual inclusion of what’s likely and unlikely, and that conclusion! Outstanding my man! You deserve thousands of more subscribers
Steel soul jinn says that the knight has a will of it's own, so when hornet says she doesn't share an emptyness with it, the only thing she can be talking about is void! Hornet even says that the knight has a choice to either become the hollow knight or kill the radiance! She only says this in the black egg temple once you got the void heart so the theory that the void heart hollowed out the knight is false, so is void hornet and the knight and the vessels being hollow
If there's one thing about Oro and Mato I do appreciate in the game, is that in Godhome, Mato joins Oro in your fight with him once he notices Oro in a tight spot during your fight with him. Showing that Mato does still follow his morals over his anger and will put his hatred aside to aid his brother in their time of need.
My theory has always been that what Mato wants from Oro is a duel, hence why they fight together in godhome and oro is most likely telling him that he needs to hone his skills for some time longer However idk bc I never got any of sheo’s other dialogs
Absolutely loved the conclusion. 10/10 for the way in which it wraps up the ideas in the video, solving the decayed family’s conflict, and gives the fights in godhome actual significance
What if the "duel" mato wanted was not against oro, but ALONGSIDE ORO, oro throught it was against him and didnt want to hurt his brother, só ran away. That would explain why mato thinks oro *left him behind*
After binging mossbag's lore videos I'm happy to have found another great content creator. The VAs are awesome and so is your way of analyzing the topic and the presentation. Thanks!
I honestly love this breakdown and theory about the brothers so much because it fits in extremely well with the themes of unresolved tension and self-inflicted punishment due to miscommunication and stubbornness found through-out the game
I *LOVED* the video!! So much thought put into it, and I actually really liked the outcome! The editing and the pacing are very well handled as well, hell yeah. Great video and great theory!!
Also Oro is a latin word meaning "I beg" which may be why he's the only one who charges Geo for his lesson Edit: Also Gold in spanish, which makes even more sense.
AAH THIS WAS SO NICE TO WATCH!!! i had no idea about the nailmaster lore.... thank you sooo much for figuring it out and explaining it!!!!! this was the first time i watched any of your videos, and you can be sure im gonna watch more :D
Another great video! I feel like some of the minor characters (such as the nailmasters) get swept under the rug in discussions of Hollow Knight lore because they don’t directly connect with the main conflict of the Pale King, the Radiance, the Void and the fate of Hallownest. Shedding light on stuff like this helps keep lore discussions fresh and interesting!
I always thought the implication was that Oro's training dummy is dressed up like Mato, because Oro is training for the day when he'll be able to defeat Mato.
I thought the training dummy was esmy. When you encounter sly for the first time he talks about how esmy was poorly wielding his nail. Or her idk. Then when you dream nail the dummy it says “stronger brothers” so I kinda assumed that meant the dummy was esmy. Kinda thought esmy got disowned or something.
NGL that is the first, THE VERY FIRST, add that I have gone "I am sorry what", immediately paused the video, and gone to follow the add Good job, didn't realise that could happen
My theory is that oro killed someone with his nail which is reason why he's haunted by shame and he's scared of killing someone else which is why he's haunted by fear
I didnt want to dwell much on what happened. Theyre siblings and rivalry and conflicts are inevitable. Moral of their lore and story for me was that you should never forsake your siblings closest ones, and even if you they are still here for you. In the pantheon you fight against Oro but only after you beat his ass, Mato appears to help him. Its this little detail that no matter the conflict and beef they had, if one is in trouble they will always come to assist one another and ignore their past, which is what being brothers is about. Its so beautiful 😭
This was sich a great video from start to finish! I was bound in my chair watching this masterpiece. Never really thought about Oro's and Mato's conflict. Thanks for showing all possible theories and rate them on their likelihood. The conclusion with the Brothers Oro & Mato fight was the cherry on the cake. Well done. Also you deserve way more subscribers with these phenomenal videos. Have a beautiful day or night :)
Hey CC, just wanted to say that I love your work and this turned out really well! Thanks for looking into this strange corners of the lore with such quality
![Near Impossible HK Parkour YOU haven't heard of: Legit Abyss Escape [ROADBLOCKS BEATEN, vid in desc]](/img/n.gif)
For more Hollow Knight/Silksong lore, SUBSCRIBE to my UA-cam Channel!!
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You fool, I am subscribed
My summer vacation started a month earlier ie today and It will end on 9th June lol
@@anujsisodiaNOOB Good thing I'm posting lore June 10th so you'll end the summer on a strong note (if you enjoy my lore that is xD)
I’ve wondered forever why the puppet has dream dialogue.
@@3DOM_ Probably b/c it was game ended by its "stronger" great hopper brother
Oro wouldn't share his cookies with Mato when they were children. Mato holds a grudge to this day.
Oro just owes him some cookies.
Indeed
I wonder what Bugs would make cookies out of
@@ImieNazwiskoOK FROM SOULS OF THE INNOCENTS
@@memeseekerframpt9082 You mean essence?
"Why is Hollow Knight lore hard to decipher"
Person: Is there a reason that the Pale King is dead in the White Palace.
Team Cherry: Yes
Team Cherry: Maybe
This was a real interaction
@@DeltaPhox oh, really? man.
@@caiterbunch3932
It was not with me specifically, I remember seeing the interaction in a video that showed it.
pale king is dead because of the shade lord
I just love Sheo. He just tries to be a loving sibling even though his family shattering.
Plus he does help the nail Smith when you spare him
@@anhondacivic6541 that's kinda gay
@@makar_on That's the point.
@@makar_on 😳
@@makar_on pls don't give ideas to internet
Great video, cc! I can tell you worked hard on this one.
Hi fireborn!
Hellooo
Fireborne pog!
Aieeeeeeeeeeeeee
Omg, it's fireb0rn :0
Oro: I'm sure he was difficult and unpleasant to train under.
*Mato: Gives you a nail art for free, allows you to sleep under his house and sees you as his pupil*
*Oro: Makes you pay 800 for nail art, Hates you and your guts, wants nothing to do with you*
Me: Wow you're one to talk Oro
Oro is just a tsundere really lol
Oro just takes after sly
@@mysteriouscat1098 I know what that's like. TSUNDEREPLANE STOP GETTING SO FLUSTERED WHEN SOMEONE SIMPLY MAKES A SOUND. ITS KINDA WEIRD AND YOUR A TSUNDERE. YOU SHOULD GET FLUSTERED WHEN SOMEONE FLIRTS AND GETS CLOSE TO YOU.
never trust someone who gives you things for "free"... it means the price is more than money
@@Chara_Dreemurr1
what?
Oro and Mato's relationship in a nutshell
This is Oro. He loves his personal space. This is Mato. He also loves Oro's personal space.
This comment should have more likes. 😂
Plot twist: it's actually because Oro beat Mato in an intense game of mariokart
Reason enough to hate someone for life
seems legit
I think you mean Mario Party
No not the 200cc skips
Got him with a blue shell at the very last second, right before the finish line.
All this hate between the two brothers, meanwhile Sheo and the Nailsmith enjoy themselves.
They enjoy themselves alright ;3
@@poptart-gj9ih 🏳️🌈
and each other lol
@@6alecapristrudel damn you for beating me to the joke
Nah Sheo can just enjoy being alone.
Heh heh heh
Mato and Oro have this dramatic conflict and Sheo and the Nailsmith are just vibin
unless the player either yeeted him w the nail or was evil and used a spell on him
@@mano__diep1318 using a spell to kill the Nailsmith is the most cruel thing you can do.
@@hillboi5049 along with not saving a grub
@@hillboi5049 dreamshield exists
@@astrylleaf wow, fr? You can actually kill him with it? Damn, that's actually even more cruel lol
In Mato's dreamnail dialogue in the Pantheon, he says: "Don't leave me behind!" I think this means that they could've had a fight about Oro leaving to go on his own
I'm just gonna say that since I dropped that 'O' from my name I was finally in peace with my past and free to dedicate myself to my true passion, making music from my Howling Cliff.
Oh, Master, I even found a promoter!
I love your covers my friend. I think my favorite is the accordion lace one. Keep up the good work up there at howling cliffs.
@@eruk4678 Sure thing, the music never stops up here ;)
17:35 Maybe THAT'S what Oro ows Mato! A proper fight side by side, that Oro never gave him; even after all their Masters teachings, Oro holds in his heart the sentiment, that he SHOULD be stronger alone since he (possibly) always was the stronger one who looked after his brothers.
In wanting to be so strong that he could protect his brothers all by himself, he instead turned on them and pushed them away entirely.
I think it is stated in the game that Sheo was the most skilled one among the brothers
@@tomasapud8240 yeah... AND HE IS POWERFUL. AND ALL HES USING IS PAINT. HES STRONGER THAN THE 2 OTHER BROTHERS COMBINED. WITH PAINT. The pen is mightier than the sword it has no limitation.
There isn't a ton of evidence for this, but that feels 100% like something Oro would do.
Interesting theory.
There's Dream Nail dialogue in the Brothers Oro and Mato fight for Mato that says "Don't leave me behind!" I assumed that was what caused the divide- Oro thought he had to fight alone, but Mato considered fighting together to be most important, and felt like Oro was abandoning him.
I feel like Oro just dressed the dummy as Mato to take out his anger.
Maybe the dummy's dream nail dialogue was just what the hopper heard Oro say as he killed and/or propped it up....
If the dummy is basically ment to be Mato, then Oro must of been talking to it. (No like he's got anyone else to talk to..)
@@absolite6 You can sometimes get dream nail dialogue from statues. Likely the dreams poured in from those who have focused a lot on them. So my theory is just that Oro has been so focused on the training dummy that his desires/dreams have etched themselves on the dummy.
@@ExileTwilight I don't understand how I haven't seen anyone actually say what it is here. It's not just a training dummy, it's a corpse of a great hopper. The 'brothers' is in reference to the great hoppers that come to attack you if you keep nailing the corpse. The wanderer's journal supports this.
@@ExileTwilight your point? The fact that it's a corpse means the dreamnail dialogue came from the hopper, probably its last thoughts. It couldn't have come from anywhere else. And like I said, the brothers are in reference to the great hopper's kin that are in hiding.
@@BlappetureCO So is the Dashmaster enshrined in his statue? Is the Radiance in the statue at the crown of hallownest? Living things or corpses are not the only things that can carry 'dreams', enough focus on an object can also make it resonate with those dreams.
the 3 brothers names end in o, the nailsage's name: slY... esmY The Ys! Esmy is Sly's sister/brother confirmed?
Good catch, I didn't think of that
Betcha esmy teaches hornet a technique in silksong XD.
@@ryuudevie7 I think I saw a npc named esmy teach hornet something
In some stories...
Or maybe Sly's wife in a way...
And she is a mother figure to them which probably why the brothers are are arguing... Well there is a version of that...
My version would be something like taking out on *Chinese fantasy kungfu and sword fighting art* drama:
I mean for my version this is how it goes:
Esmy is Sly's younger sister. Mato is probably in love with Esmy. But when Mato, Esmy, Oro and Sly go to some place together... Somehow Esmy got infected...
Sly can't let go Esmy when she got infected by Radiant. Sly can't give the finishing blow as that is his sister. Mato well... That's his lover. So surely he becine clueless on what to do.
Oro took the sacrifice and dealt finishing blow to Esmy and that caused Mato to become angry and express hatred also lost all reasoning and fight Oro until they somehow come to an agreement or maybe they respect Sheo who arrived late and then move with different path and they told a different story of what happened to Esmy.
Sheo who also probably saw Esmy's dead body, and having heard stories from both made him confused and lives in Greenpath secluding himself in thorny area trying to move on by learning different arts. Indulge himself in the arts of creation which is opposite to the arts of nails that caused death... Maybe Sheo is also trying to forget what happened to Esmy but also sad upon what happens between his brothers and even more sad since he himself doesn't have any clear idea of what had transpired between them.
While Oro and Mato lives far apart from each other's.
Esmy death must have caused Sly to be heartbroken that he probably treading the and following the infection because he wanted to avenge his sister's death by destroying the infection but his mind was also in disarray which caused Sly's mind to be infected until The Knight found him. Sly doesn't blame any of his pupils since he still has reasoning...
And then Sly finally comes to terms after saved by the Knights.
Or at least this is my version of stories about those Nailsages...
😅😅😅😅😅
@@viperakmal interesting theory. His seclusion in kingdoms edge could also be him attempting to stay away from people as to not hurt them anymore. But at the same time the theme of love isn’t something I see in hollow knight. Either way it’s fun to think about.
I just thought he owed money.
I mean he IS the only one who makes you pay geo for the nail art.
But that's a boring conclusion so im glad this video exists!
He was the only one who didnt pay Sly's tutoring fees (?)
I wanna like but it’s at a nice number.
heeeey this make sense.... i think
@@Tintin_Quarentino so Oro is just making us pay his tuition. Got it.
no, no, wait. that's absolutely hilarious
I have a small feeling that esmy was the great nailsage before sly, because ‘how much deeper do we have to go?’ Sounds less like training someone else, more of being trained in high stakes. Also, by the logic that all nailmasters have o at the end of their name, sly and esmy have y at the end of their names.
Maybe she was the nailmasters’ mother?
@@Barakon Maybe she'll show up in the next game.
Maybe Esmy was Sly’s sister? The “How much deeper do we have to go” could’ve been them together training under high stakes, like you said. From what we know so far, siblings tend to share the last letter of their names, and like you mentioned, Sly and Esmy both end with “Y”
How much deeper sound a tad bit sis ngl
Maybe Esmy is Isma ?
It sounds like a pet name,
I was kinda meh on the whole theory until you pointed out that they are called "Brothers Oro and Mato" instead of nailmasters. Thats badass. And also what i love about this game. You think a theory is all speculation but Team Cherry slips you a little hint that is clearly intentional and then it all comes together in this complete story. Awesome vid!
Also mossbag was a lore checker on this??? Very cool.
If Esmy is connected to the training dummy. Then the line "Esmy how much deeper do we have to go" makes sense, since there is a cracked floor tile in the same room. And it leads to the Ancient Nailsmith and a lot of Geo. Maybe Esmy (or Sly) were searching for the Ancient Nailsmith.
Maybe esmy is the ancient nailsmith
Damn
Wait, in the house you find sly
esmy could be sly’s lover or something similar
@@typical8903since Oro, Mato and Sheo share the same last letter of their names and are brothers, Sly and Esmy could be siblings as well.
Me, ignoring everything said as I watch Sheo paint the Nailsmith
Alternatively;
Me, ignoring everything said as my goblin brain froths at the mouth from the amazing visuals, word building and art style: Holllowe NKnite
😏
One of videogaming’s best gay relationships
hkUwu
@@The_Biscuit_From_Heaven frick yea
I’m glad I killed the nail master on accident
Little people notice how the fight is done, they keep switching stances as when someone is done their attack, the other brother comes forward to protect the other with a pary. Love the concept and i want esmy in silksong
I believe the dummy is a representation of Oro, he has stronger brothers, I think it’s a way for team cherry to show what Oro’s struggle is, that being the hard to swallow fact that even tho he is very overconfident, he isn’t as strong as his brothers.
Even though he's physically stronger than Mato, mentally he's no where near his brother. Very good take you've made!
Ngl pretty sure mato saved oro in a way that dishonored oro, which is why he is owed something, but ashamed and does not show until needed in the pantheon
Wait that actually makes sense
@@Ccmacihonestly i dont think oro is physically stronger than either of his brothers. when waking up sly, he says the line "oro... you wield your nail... like a club". he mightve just said one of the three brothers at random, but he *did* specifically say oro. along with the "stronger... brothers..." dream dialogue from the training dummy, i believe oro was always the weakest of the three. this explains why hes so fixated on "proving himself", aka proving hes worthy of his brothers. thats where his lone wolf mentality stems from, why decided to part on his own, leaving mato behind, leading to the whole conflict
Possible incorporation of both ideas: What Mato *wanted* was an apology, but, true to Oro being stubborn and saying things he doesn't necessarily mean, Oro *promises him* a duel to the death. Hence Mato won't forget what Oro 'owes' him and never will, in much the way siblings will hold something stupid you said over your head for a considerable time. Oro has since cooled down and has no desire to duel his brother anymore, but also doesn't want to go against his word.
great video, its cool seeing npc dialogue voice acted by real people
But it's already voice acted by real people lololololol.
(I know what you mean jk)
Meanwhile Sheo: *Man... I love my boyfriend.*
"pill time"
Your name checks out
Sheo is wholesome boi. In Greenpath just doing his Bob Ross action with love on his mind.
ew no stop get some help
@@DamageMaximo cringe
Lol I always thought that Oro had killed a hidden fourth brother with deformed skull and tied him to the pole (as opposed to it just being a training dummy with a great hopper's skull)
If you hit that training dummy 25 times, Two great Hoppers will come to stomp your ass.
@@vraolet holy- I didn’t know this I need to now try it out
@@Lia-et8ii if you have the randomizer mod installed it's around 25 great hoppers instead
@@themultiversalassociationo9746
Or four Absolute Radiances
Hi Dacron from the hit UA-cam series “Daily Silksong News”
When oro says the dialogue, replace "strength" with "geo", i was immediately reminded of sly's obsession with geo
I noticed a long time ago that in the first pantheon, you don't fight against Nailmasters Oro and Mato, you fight against Brothers Oro and Mato, and I'm so glad to see it highlighted in this way. Thank you for making this video which doesn't just explain lore, but, even without a concrete answer to what happened in the past, puts together the wonderful story Team Cherry has told.
I don't remember completely, but if you Dream Nail one of the bros during their god fight, it says something along the line of "Brothers always fight together!"
that's mato
Good luck trying to dream nail them to find out
@@lewismartin3430 pretty easy actually, just dream nail when mato enters or when they are stunned and also use dream catcher
@@lewismartin3430 wait, u don’t dreamnail them?
@@taffles7498 no because i suck.
The video looked really professional! The quality of the editing, and the the quality of the humor gets better with each video.
This put the Oro and Mato boss fight into a whole new perspective. I will never not look at the fight and think "What a beautifully done story hidden through so few lines of dialogue." It gives the fight both a darker and brighter feel at the same time
Welp, add this to the list of things to do as we cry while waiting for Silksong :')
I still find it a bit strange that Sheo calls Kingdom's Edge an "ash swept grave". I'm fairly certain that the Nail Masters don't know the corpse of the Pail King's first form lies there. Is grave referring to something else? Also, why is Oro's home the only way to the secret underground section with the very ominous geo boulder, mushroom tablet, AND ancient nail smith? I think its also worth noting what each brother takes with them to their homes. Oro seems to have a lot of stuff from the aristocratic sections of the City of Tears. I'm seeing a lot of geo being thrown around, and I find it interesting how much Sly thinks of trading with geo to be the same if not better than using a nail. Maybe this mystery requires looking more into Sly's past than you might think.
The nailmasters were around when the 5 great knights existed, so I wouldn't be surprised if during all this time since then he heard rumors about the beacon, but who knows.
The corpses of the colisseum are all around the place in kingdoms edge, so hes not wrong.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to voice Sheo Cc! This video was amazing, excellent editing and lore as always! 💙💙💙
lol he kinda sounds like a girl
@@sevdrakegavial Well, considering I am a girl that makes sense, astute observation xD
I'm not great at making my voice sound lower so I hope you'll forgive me for sparing you that
@@Stellamarius Nah, it's good! I actually like voices like that for some reason. btw this comment is so underrated
@@Nobody-vh1zr Awh thank you! ^^
lol you could work as anime protoganist voice actor. ( because females voice dont change drasticly over time it works for making a long term show and no offense but i kinda sounded like a guy for a while when doing sheo untill i realized it was a female voic acting) but i bet u knew all of this considering u are a girl.
You know what I love about cc's videos? The fact that he takes little bits of lore that I would never think to consider and fleshes them out into full on theories
The production quality is through the roof. Nice video Cc!
Much appreciated!
Meanshile Sheo: nailsmith, look at what I have made
Nailsmith: OMG thats so beautiful
Sheo: thank you, Im gonna put this one at the window so we can appreciate it together
“Wait, you’re not Riri”
Me: Sometimes (sniff) I can still hear his voiiiice 😭
Amazing video! 🙌
Hello
@@nurulnajmaini3869 Hello there!
@@GoodKnightNintendo General Kenobi!
@@brbupdatingtheautopsyrepor8955 Ah, I see you caught my anchorman special 😎
when the hollow knight lore video has it's own lore
I always thought that the dummy's dream nail dialog belonged to the dead great hopper. After you slap it, two other great hoppers fall from the sky and -give you a heart attack- attack you. So maybe they were it's brothers? that would make 3 and serve as an interesting parallel to the 3 nailmaster's.
2 that fight together and one that is dead (Oro and Mato eventually fight together again in godhome and Sheo would be dead metaphorically because he gave up his life as a nailmaster)
this actually makes so much sense!
The nail masters were always one of my favorite story lines in hollow knight. It's so wholesome to see them lock eyes and yell gasssoooo in the pantheon like whatever shit they had between them was completely put aside
“Is there a 4th nail master? If so it can’t be esmy.”
Me: what if there’s a OWO?
I mean there is uumuu so it's possible
I now wish to run away from umuu
HAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHA
@khandwa style HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA
@khandwa style *uuwuu
Just about the godhome part, I’m pretty sure godhome is meant to return bosses to their prime, as an example take PV, godhome’s strongest ver of Hollow
There’s also the fact this is in the godseekers dream so couldn’t contain the current oro and Mato since the only beings able to traverse dreams are those with dream related abilities eg. Radi, Nkg or godseeker
This would mean that the conflict between the brothers was never resolved and this was just a vision of what their relationship used to be before it fell apart
Great video though! I really like your theories on the brothers, it makes me appreciate their characters and dialogue even more :>
Actually for all intents and purposes, the bosses are their real selves. This is proven by characters such as Hornet and Grimm showing awareness of where they are and what's going on.
@@cronostrife431 For the nailmasters it's just a dream
@@cronostrife431 Hornet and Grimm are higher beings.
@@akapilka Ok, grimm being a higher being checks out. But, I'm not really sure about Hornet, and we have no evidence in the favor of or against either option.
Hornet is the daughter of the pale king. She is 50% higher being.While grim is 100% higher being. That's why hornet is confused during the Pantheon, and grim knows exactly what's going on, just like the knight.
This is one of those videos where you would never expect to watch the whole thing, but somehow its so interesting and captivating that i can't take my eyes away... the view count baffles me. You should be in the millions
I always thought that the dummy was supposed to resemble mato so oro could take his anger out on it
Actually, oro and mato played a game of monopoly when they were younger, and oro landed on mato's boardwalk hotel, so he ran away so he wouldn't have to pay. The dummy oro has isnt dead, its an incredibly intelligent great hopper that he practices monopoly against, in the hopes of one day beating his brother
4:30
I like how Cc includes random callbacks to other videos
I still miss rere :(
This is lore on completly Otter level
Bro this video is SO well made! The analysis, the possible paths, the actual inclusion of what’s likely and unlikely, and that conclusion! Outstanding my man! You deserve thousands of more subscribers
came here from discord :sunglasses: :thumbsup:
oh and i can't believe i forgot, thanks for the upload :D
honestly this channel deserves much more than 10k subs. these lore videos alone are amazing
Woah I really didn't expect that intro at the start
Steel soul jinn says that the knight has a will of it's own, so when hornet says she doesn't share an emptyness with it, the only thing she can be talking about is void! Hornet even says that the knight has a choice to either become the hollow knight or kill the radiance! She only says this in the black egg temple once you got the void heart so the theory that the void heart hollowed out the knight is false, so is void hornet and the knight and the vessels being hollow
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
If there's one thing about Oro and Mato I do appreciate in the game, is that in Godhome, Mato joins Oro in your fight with him once he notices Oro in a tight spot during your fight with him. Showing that Mato does still follow his morals over his anger and will put his hatred aside to aid his brother in their time of need.
My theory has always been that what Mato wants from Oro is a duel, hence why they fight together in godhome and oro is most likely telling him that he needs to hone his skills for some time longer
However idk bc I never got any of sheo’s other dialogs
Seeing as Godhome is in the Dream Realm, it’d be interesting if their reunion and reconciliation is a dream they both unknowingly share.
1:52 the voice acting is *amazing* !
Love these lore videos, awesome work CC. I always thought the nailmasters were not very well explored
dude i teared up at the end. thank you so much for making this video
My pleasure, I'm glad you enjoyed :D
Yo! I'm still blown away with how much polish your vids emit and how well-thought-out the theories are. Well done, Cc and friends! :)
This video is extremely well made! It was very interesting, and I enjoyed it a lot. Good job!
Absolutely loved the conclusion. 10/10 for the way in which it wraps up the ideas in the video, solving the decayed family’s conflict, and gives the fights in godhome actual significance
team cherry perfectly crafting a response to anything to give the least amount of lore they could possibly give while still giving an answer:
Decided to watch this after class xD, Love the effort put into it and keep up the fantastic work!😄
I'm glad you enjoyed :D
Nailsmith: Sheo paint me like on of your French bugs 1:07
What if the "duel" mato wanted was not against oro, but ALONGSIDE ORO, oro throught it was against him and didnt want to hurt his brother, só ran away. That would explain why mato thinks oro *left him behind*
I heard the dummy is actually a great hopper in nailmasters' clothes...
2:00 mato: Bruce, it’s been 5 years you still owe me 16 dollars
Oro: fuck off
absolutely amazing video cc. the lore is really well thought out and explained
yea when I got to the "debt" dialogue I just thought "duel" and forgot about it
After binging mossbag's lore videos I'm happy to have found another great content creator. The VAs are awesome and so is your way of analyzing the topic and the presentation.
Thanks!
Oro said Big Chungus wasn't funny, that's why Mato hates him.
I honestly love this breakdown and theory about the brothers so much because it fits in extremely well with the themes of unresolved tension and self-inflicted punishment due to miscommunication and stubbornness found through-out the game
As someone who can’t stand people being upset and is very soft, I really just wish I could give them both hugs and cookies ;u;
stop
Cringe
With offensive intention 👍🏼
@@alvaromartinezgonzalez9344 agreed
@@alvaromartinezgonzalez9344 such a way with words
I *LOVED* the video!! So much thought put into it, and I actually really liked the outcome! The editing and the pacing are very well handled as well, hell yeah. Great video and great theory!!
Also Oro is a latin word meaning "I beg" which may be why he's the only one who charges Geo for his lesson
Edit: Also Gold in spanish, which makes even more sense.
Real-life languages really shouldn't be taken as evidence; all languages in-universe are constructed/false. I hope you don't read this incorrectly
@@serraramayfield9230
I was just sharing a fun fact =T
@@DementedDuskull It's a coincidence
@@serraramayfield9230
=T
@@serraramayfield9230 It could be intentional, but you go to a quick conclusion. Show me evidence for your claims.
AAH THIS WAS SO NICE TO WATCH!!! i had no idea about the nailmaster lore.... thank you sooo much for figuring it out and explaining it!!!!! this was the first time i watched any of your videos, and you can be sure im gonna watch more :D
Another great video! I feel like some of the minor characters (such as the nailmasters) get swept under the rug in discussions of Hollow Knight lore because they don’t directly connect with the main conflict of the Pale King, the Radiance, the Void and the fate of Hallownest. Shedding light on stuff like this helps keep lore discussions fresh and interesting!
Slapping me with the feels at the end, eh? How dare you. Nice vid, my man.
I always thought the implication was that Oro's training dummy is dressed up like Mato, because Oro is training for the day when he'll be able to defeat Mato.
I thought the training dummy was esmy. When you encounter sly for the first time he talks about how esmy was poorly wielding his nail. Or her idk. Then when you dream nail the dummy it says “stronger brothers” so I kinda assumed that meant the dummy was esmy. Kinda thought esmy got disowned or something.
Wow! This was so very well crafted, Cc! Super amazing job, dude :P
When CCmaci uploads within a year 💓
Great video!!! I always love these lore speculation theories. And goddamn, that final line gave me CHILLS.
Me, having a good day
Cc: uploads
Me: has an even better day!
NGL that is the first, THE VERY FIRST, add that I have gone "I am sorry what", immediately paused the video, and gone to follow the add
Good job, didn't realise that could happen
My theory is that oro killed someone with his nail which is reason why he's haunted by shame and he's scared of killing someone else which is why he's haunted by fear
I love this topics like these that aren't really talked about, hopefully there's more videos like this to come!
2:00 PTSD moment.
17:33 Well, the dream forms of Oro and Mato in the Pantheon are not the same as their conscious selves though.
And then there's me who can't even differentiate between the two brothers.
Amazing editing
9:28 "Though that crucial emptiness, I lack."
She isn't void.
I didnt want to dwell much on what happened. Theyre siblings and rivalry and conflicts are inevitable. Moral of their lore and story for me was that you should never forsake your siblings closest ones, and even if you they are still here for you.
In the pantheon you fight against Oro but only after you beat his ass, Mato appears to help him. Its this little detail that no matter the conflict and beef they had, if one is in trouble they will always come to assist one another and ignore their past, which is what being brothers is about. Its so beautiful 😭
The sheer effort put into this video is matched only by the clarity of its speculation. Another great video!
This kinda time loss on watching a video like this is what i consider to be productive
Edit : great video btw
Eyy, thank you!
This was sich a great video from start to finish! I was bound in my chair watching this masterpiece. Never really thought about Oro's and Mato's conflict. Thanks for showing all possible theories and rate them on their likelihood. The conclusion with the Brothers Oro & Mato fight was the cherry on the cake. Well done. Also you deserve way more subscribers with these phenomenal videos. Have a beautiful day or night :)
Thank you for the kind words, mean a lot to me!
Your mascot is something that should only appear in one of my nightmares
Trust me, it should
nice video! i love how hollow knight handle tragic yet bittersweet stories
This voice acting in this video makes me want to see some people voice all of Hollow Knight
the corpse is just a great hopper wearing nailmaster clothes
I do like to think there was a 4th nailmaster. The spin attack by the nail sage may have been the last art. And we never got to learn it.
Hey CC, just wanted to say that I love your work and this turned out really well! Thanks for looking into this strange corners of the lore with such quality
I thought that Esmy was one of their loves