RETICULUM + SIDEBAND - Text messaging without the Internet.
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- SIDEBAND
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WIth 24dB dish antennas you can easily set up a line of sight WiFi link with a maximum length of about 10 miles / 16 km. After that distance the timing starts to be an issue. If you use an omnidirectional for the access point and a dish on the client end you can easily support a lot of long distance links in a star topology.
A while ago I have tested several off-line communication apps for Android below, and most of them worked great. :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
A while ago I have tested several off-line communication apps for Android below, and most of them worked great. :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
What is the max allowed TX power or EIRP in UK for 2.4 or 5GHz wifi ?
I remember a guy on a Russian YT channel used two Yagi antennas and was able to use WiFi over a couple of kilometers. With better parabolic antennas under ideal conditions, it could go as far as the curvature of the Earth in a line of sight at ground level.
I used to send messages from New Zealand 🇳🇿 to my Sister in the UK 🇬🇧 via Amateur Packet Radio before the Internet was even a thing. It was way faster than the 3 weeks postal service at the time. 😊
Same here. My first ever email address was for Packet. On 2m, I used to node hop into Europe to read French BBSs.
I still use it. From 1988 we had a worldwide network of Nodes and bulletin boards. Access was via a AEA PK88 TNC for me, hooked to a Alinco DJ120 handheld on 2m in to a diamond x50 aerial. I used a dumb terminal on it at first, then I got a PC in 1994 and run the G8BPQ node and F6FBB software as a mailbox and to read bulletin messages. Quite a good system. I later got a Kenwood TH42E and replaced the x50 with a V2000, then using a duplexer I had 70cm and 2m node and updated the PC. That's when we were using 1200baud over the radio. Better software arrived and we could use sound cards as interfaces with radios. I also tried TPK software which was rubbish compared to WinPack. Things progressed to 9k6 but radios hard to modify so it failed. The network still exists now.
HF was always at 300baud and really interesting to use.
Amateurs used their callsigns @the local BBS. For example, in the UK G6XXX@GB7XXX. All routing set up by Nodes and BBSs. I regularly node hopped from the NW UK to WA2NDV.
There were also what were known as TCP/IP BBSs, slightly different and s lot slower to use. There was one run by a very questionable person in the NW. Definitely not the sort of person you wanted near your children.
Sidebands awesome....also telemesh, serval mesh ,briar , bridgefy, ribbit and commotion wireless(which allows the community and groups to construct free self managed Internet by the people for the people, not big companies.)
They're all offline forms of communication, serval mesh uses its own type of comms system and extenders I think, bridgefy uses Bluetooth, telemesh uses wifi and the etherium blockchain, ribbit uses handy talkies... and is super simple
This remind me of APRS which I used extensively in the 1990s - I ran a repeater node in Hendon, north London up on Sunny Hill on 2m ham band that served stations for miles around. I'm inspired to set it up again using an old 2m talkie and a raspberry pi doing the APRS packet modem stuff.
Back in 2008, I installed a Sky netgear wifi modem into the loft of my parents network and set it up as an access point, I lived well over half a mile away (Direct line of sight) and I could connect no problem at all with a usb wifi dongle attached to the window.
What a great way to communicate with neighbours and near friends should the network go off line. You always find really interesting stuff and test it out to it's limits this is brilliant thanks for sharing. I'm going to be having a look into this and give it a try.
Cheers Dave! 👍🏻😁
@@andykirby- In the past I've tested similar off-line communication apps on Android. .. cheers! :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
Talkie - Wi-Fi Calling
Two Way Walkie-Talkie
Walkie-Talkie Offline
Walkie Talkie Wi-Fi Intercom
Voxer Walkie-Talkie Messenger
@@andykirby - In the past I've tested similar off-line apps for Android. .. cheers! :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
@@andykirby - In the past I've tested similar off-line apps for Android. .. cheers! :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
Some time ago I have tested similar off-line communication apps for Android and most of them worked great. :)
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
Bridgefy - Bluetooth only
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
My life would be better without a cell phone...I miss the days before pagers....now everyone and their uncle gets upset if you don't get back to them RIGHT AWAY..
if I could I'd do away with cell phones, the internet, and technology in general. I'm a computer tech by trade....taught myself - but now it just seems like a waste of time, as there are more important things to do than being stuck on advertisement and click bate after click bate.
Ha! I know what you mean
Better off investing in satelite phones. If the world goes upside down, then you can pirate a satellite to make free calls. It's illegal but that won't matter much if society as fallen apart.
If an EMP happens all this is pretty irrelevant.
Also sat phones have to register to a satellite network by ESN. Just like cell phones. You can’t just “use” any satellite phone systems with a registered subscription.
@@redherring5532 Prep. Get your SHFT gear setup, place in faraday box. Done.
Please let me know if I'm wrong, I only recently started learning about this sort of thing, but what about Faraday boxes or one of those Faraday bags? Couldn't you place your satellite phones in there to protect them from an EMP?
Reticulum is a dream come true and long overdue. Meshtastic better get on board.
I've got my Nibbler case built for the Heltec, looks great.
⚡I've got it working with only three phones (no separate hotspot required). I have one phone as the WiFi hotspot (with no data connection). I removed all the previous conversations and shutdown the apps. Then I restarted the apps, announced the stream, then announced the LXMF addresses on the other devices. It was fiddly though it works.
Andy, try using one phone in hotspot mode. This should then work at, say, a festival.
I tried it on my S24 ultra and it wasn't working, I think there maybe a firewall or something...
@@andykirby I've got it working with three phones. I'll make a separate post.
This would be cool combined as a mesh network. Have the phones hop the message/data for longer distances.
Problem is the relatively short range of a direct-WiFi connection. It would be great to use the cellular radio for P2P comms ;)
It's absolutely possible with this the project is designed specifically to be used with many different network interfaces, for example lora, i2p, packet radio etc. the documentation on GitHub and the projects website does a great job explaining possible use cases.
So, when the "Zombie apocalypse" happens (And by "Zombie apocalypse" I mean ANY full on breakdown of society/infrastructure, so, natural disaster, prolonged violent civil unrest, full on invasion, etc) all it takes is ONE person to have downloaded this, and the software can be propagated out purely by that person telling the software to offer copies of itself wirelessly to anyone who wants it? Interesting idea. In theory, you wouldn't even need to install it. You could just put a copy of the APK file on your phones memory card and leave it there until a time where it may become handy to use.
It would be nice if each device it was running on could also work as a relay node to create a mesh network (I can't see anything on the Sideband web page to say if it CAN do this, but I'd think if it did have would this feature they'd mention prominently on the page). I could see that being useful for any group of people who wanted local area communication even in areas without any form of phone or data connection. For example, a large group of friends exploring the shopping area of a town could all stay in contact with each other over quite large distances as long as there wasn't an excessively large gap between any two links within the data chain.
SHTF and your in WIFI rang why not just talk?
This looks and sounds absolutely brilliant.
What we REALLY need when SHTF is a system that you can turn on (Wifi or a 4G server) and anyone connecting would automatically see a webpage that tells them how to install the necessary app to communicate with you and others.
The chance that ANYONE else has installed sideband when all Internet goes down for a long time in the range of my wifi (and I live in Amsterdam) is near to zero. The chance that anyone would see my public-wifi (which runs on batteries/solar and is not connected to the grid) is 100x bigger.
Now I just need an easy way for people in the neighborhood to exchange messages with each other through the wifi- (or LoRa-) service that I offer.
You can do that with a" pirate box" it allows sharing of files like video as well as having a chat. You're basically setting up a local area network server.
There's no reason why you couldn't locally host the APK on that webpage that comes up when they connect. You'd probably need instructions so that people can enable sideloading on their phone - most phones come with it turned off by default - but other than that it should be plain sailing.
Another thing to note, this will have better range on 2.4ghz as compared to the 5G wifi networks.
You could have probably just shouted the message at that distance ;)
Handy while we wait for the Postman to bring our Heltecs 😂
A great way to overcome emergencies or to create a network where none exists
Want a bit of advice..... find the most remote least populated area and place a WiFi module there. And then to less remote areas and finally to the least remote ie cities.
I have no idea what this advice does@@bigmouthstrikesagain4056
First strike when SHTF is likely going to an EMP so I’d make sure you have duplicates of all this stuff in a Faraday cage of some sort.
Or at least not switched on
@@wisteela It has to be in a Faraday cage, an EMP strike will effectively destroy anything not protected regardless of whether or not it has power going through it. I have essentials in a home made aluminium foil cardboard box Faraday cage, you just have to buy duplicates of whatever you’re going to need so unless you’re rich keep it simple.
Assuming of course that an EMP is the cause of the phone system outage. Could be a number of causes really.
@@prepcommsuk (From Perplexity) The likelihood of an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) being used in a first strike scenario for World War 3 are considered to be significant. An EMP attack is seen as a potential trigger for a nuclear war, making its occurrence a grave concern. The impact of an EMP attack, especially in the context of a nuclear conflict, is widely regarded as catastrophic and could lead to the escalation of global tensions and conflicts[1][2][3].
Experts suggest that an EMP attack on the US could potentially mark the beginning of World War 3, highlighting the severe implications such an event could have on international relations and security[3]. The potential for an EMP apocalypse, particularly in the aftermath of conflicts like the Ukraine war, raises serious concerns about the use of such technology and its implications for global stability[4].
Given the gravity of the situation and the potential consequences associated with an EMP attack, it is crucial to consider preparedness measures and strategies to enhance survival odds in case of such a catastrophic event[5].
@@InimitaPaulwon't do anything unless its bonded to ground. A big enough emp to smoke all electronics will likely end anything in a shielded box as well.
What about using it with AREDN mesh ?
I need a lora device that can create a Wi-Fi network that's long range for these mesh style apps.
I imagine that makes no sense but a man can dream.
HaLow might fit your needs.
This is really amazing software. Thanks for reviewing it. Maybe you could demo it with more people to show it in action over longer distances and with more people participating!?
The only thing that bothers me about this is that it says "Permission-less", which could potentially be an issue if someone decides to send a lot of messages? (Not sure, since I don't know how that works yet)... But, on my phone, the process to block msgs seems to be a bit of pain.
There's already controls and options in place in the programs to ignore unknown senders for example. So if anyone starts spamming, it's very easy to control. The underlying Reticulum protocol is also pretty good at managing channel resources to make sure no single person is able to spam the network at a physical level.
Andy its how smart meters etc communicate with the headend same idea.
great video! try to nomadnet with you motorola radios 🙂 I'm testing now direwolf with ax25 with nomadnet, will see how it goes.
That's a good shout actually!
Again, Beast of a tune at the end... ❤🎶🎵
If they're on the same wifi network as me, I will probably just hollar louder
There's situations where hollering is not ideal
In the beginning you seem to keep referring to cellular connection as being an internet connection. 🤷♂️
Nice
So as long as the phones are kept charged, kids will still know when dinner's done! 😛
Are you familar with HaMPR ? Bascially tethering a phone to off the shelf wifi hardware (like Ubiquiti airMAX Rocket M5 BaseStation) with custom firmware from AREDN.
dig seeing this stuff it opens up options for dumb stuff in nature to do like an AIrsoft event that runs for days
remember when they took WiMax away from us, albeit very quietly? Japan took the protocol and used it for commercial internet delivery. The range of WiMAX is insane but of course how would all the mobile providees sell you data plans?
This could be a much better solution for local aera communication. No need to carry around a extra piece of hardware like a node - cheaper and easy to setup - old router and beam or high antenna and your set
Love your channel!
Great info, keep the videos coming.
Brilliant, watch this space! I think you need a developer’s hub to harness your ideas. Free membership with good intentions.
And just think! With that Huawei hotspot, your conversations will be sent to the CCP too! Bonus!
they already have your dreams if you forgot to don your tinfoil hat in bed last night!
im sure they cant break the encryption. they probably gonna get a bunch of other juicy information but not the words on your screen
When the SHTF there will probably be an EMP that destroys everything electronic...Happy Friday :D
so when the shtf i’ll be able to find out what phone, antenna ,app version,weather and ailments from a fellow nerd 100m down the road😝
We have ham radios for emergencies as well 😮
Hi, can you take a look at WiFi Halow? It uses same frequency as meshtastic, but high speeds.
I've never heard of this but it sounds really interesting after reading a write up on it.
Lots of scope for people to push malicious apps at you be sure you trust the source
When SHTF and you need to communicate with someone 100m away - it's much easier to just walk over and talk. You're f**ked if you rely so much on a phone.
Absolutely!
Great concept and thumbs up
how to setup those 2 phones.... he starts when everything is done, just send messages... I tried it with 2 phones, installed sideband, but no idea how to connect those phones... anyone has an video or something else which explains the first steps to get the 2 phones connected?
Great video, didn't know about that one! Have you seen Jami before? It's decentralized and can run local like this or over the Internet if it's available. Lot of features. Would be curious to get your take on it.
Thanks, I'll take a look 👍🏻
Ooh, potentially coupling this sort of thing with some WiFi APs that support 802.11ah (aka, Wi-Fi HaLow, 900MHz Wifi) and some form of mesh system (802.11s or B.A.T.M.A.N adv) you could totally have a meshtastic-like mesh system which is entirely off grid if you power the APs with battery banks / solar or wind
Yep! Exactly. I was wondering if we could use it as a back bone for meshtastic. Imagine having message servers located on hill tops (simple PI) and you could login with LoRa and retrieve emails. All totally off grid.
AFAIK reticulum has some sort of routing algorithm. It can already function as a mesh system. You should not need batman adv to use it.
Reticulum is a really great network solution and it has been around for a while (maybe even longer than meshtastic). It has pluggable interfaces so it can be used over unconfigured network switches or even LoRa. I'm not sure why it has not gained more attention.
Packet radio over wifi tcp ip x25
in europe, electronic communications committee ERC recommendation 70-3 page 15 opens quote: "915.8-919.4 MHz 25 mW e.r.p. ≤ 10% duty cycle for network access points and polite spectrum access. ≤ 2.8% duty cycle otherwise and polite spectrum access > 600 kHz ≤ 1 MHz Wideband data transmission in data networks (notes 1 and 2). All nomadic and mobile
devices within the data network shall be controlled by a master network access point (NAP). The frequency band is also identified in Annexes 1, 2 and 11" a full megahertz open for networking is pretty good
Sideband devs - we need an iOS version!
What advantages does this have over an app like Briar, that is designed to work in similar internet-outage situations but is also designed to defend against hostile actors?
I think briar only works between predetermined contacts, I'm not sure if you can broadcast messages out to public which might be a shortfall in real emergency situations.
Many SSID require PW, you'de have to turn it off, disconnect other network services like servers to secure systems. Its a ground based system in the end where radio is limited only to those connecting to WIFI router, doesn't sound like a dispersed radio wave communication. More like network based system. But, its interesting.
Some apps are not router based, but use either Bluetooth or Direct-WiFi connection. In a line of sight, WiFi can go up a mile even longer with Yagi antennas. Here are some apps using direct-comms.
Briar - Bluetooth + WiFi
FireChat - Bluetooth + WiFi (discontinued but can still be found and side-loaded)
Offline Chat - Bluetooth + WiFi
The internet disconnected from the rest of the internet IS the internet. It's a concept and a protocol.
Or an intranet
cool , can it connect to lora?
I just posted that I would love a way to create a bigger WiFi hotspot with Lora but I don't know nor think it works that way.
Yep it can you can have a pi connected to WiFi and lora and the reticulum network will route traffic over both so if you have laptop 2 km away with a lora rnode you can communicate with it even get a shell on the pi with some setup. And for people within wifi range of the pi they can send messages to the laptop because reticulum will route the message from wifi to the lora radio attached to it to the laptop and vise versa
That would be really useful over LORA. I'll have to try and get an RNode working :)
Please and thank you!
Range is big bottleneck, I think meshtastic is way better. These wifi ideas are old and doesn’t work
I think both have their merits...long range wifi for high bandwidth applications and LoRa for messaging.
You have to think about a massive commercial plant that has complete wifi coverage via their LAN. An app like this will let people direct text in all areas of the plant without using imsg or some msg app that requires internet. One I do work at has over 2 miles of network wifi coverage, and zero cell service in most areas.
This can also use lora or other mediums like packet radio, etc
V interesting. I wonder if there's something that can run through the national grid?!
Yeah that would be interesting.
@@andykirby had a mate that worked at Nortel that was getting internet over powerlines working. They proved the concept then the project got axed lol.
Nothing stands in the way of progress like a budget cut :)
It would definitely work, jus
It would work as an Ethernet connection over powerlines for sure
Mm. Suspicious.@@brianclark1223
Cool tech. Music in background was keeping me from focusing on the message.
Wow didn't think it was loud. It's like -40db 🤣
Briar does the same thing
Yes, but no. Similar features but fundamentally different growth path.
Ta cheers, wireless lan
😂
Throws my meshtastic device into the bin 😑....kidding 😅 I understand it's still worth it
OK so now the question is - pros and cons versus Briar (which DOES work on iOS)
Good shout. Will test it, it looks like you can't broadcast messages, you can only message contacts whuch might be a shortcoming in emergency situations.
Would it be possible to connect one mesh unit to my wifi router and then have second mesh unit monitoring my allotment out of mesh range but i can get updates over internet
Is there a similar app for iPhone?
I wish you and ringway mcr would stop doing videos I am bought by all of the videos you both do lol keep it up 73's
Nice 👍
Im a new sub here. You habe to havr a computer to do this to install on Android? For whej shtf
Did somebody managed to run it on windows? Mine do not see Wireless Wifi interface. Which settings to write in config file? Please help.....
AutoInterface support on Windows was recently added.
Is this only to be used for messaging or can you get anything else to do with it
that's cute
My Virgin Media router WiFi only works 20 feet 😆
😂
Very interesting. What is the latest on the Meshtastic shop? Or is it near impossible to get stock supplies right now....
Stocks inbound, shouldn't be too long, launch video will be soon!
@@andykirby Great. I imagine that there will be a lot of people wanting a trusted source of Meshtastic products.
Meshtastic surely old hat now? I saw someone selling up his bunch of 4 HelTec and antennas etc because he’d tried and tried and made no progress?
@@sprint955st Look at the node list on the Meshtastic map for a good guide to how many people are involved.
@@sprint955st The Meshtastic node map seems to be filling out quite nicely. Supply of transceivers over the Chinese New Year was clearly a problem.
APK flat out refused (crashes) on my Pixel 7 Pro. Too bad.
Thats a shame, file a bug report github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/categories/help-questions
@@andykirby Nah I just tried it to check it out. It's obviously not ready for prime time and I do not care at all.
So SHTF and you think you NEED a smartphone with an app to text 50 meters? You have got to be kidding... But hey.. That's good cl ick ba it!
Missing the point I think...
What about for iPhones? iOS?
My family all have and use apple products
@@A-18-I-5-S that won't be useful when internet goes down. They are basically internet-connected terminals. Android is used because it is standalone.
Hi from Czech 🤘🍺
Hi from the UK 🙂
This is FAR more interesting than meshtastic, as this is much more open for methods of transmission. Very curious to see where this goes
Would this app work over 466 license free band?
How about a solar powered loud hailer ? For SHTF think I will stick to Meshtastic 😊
446
kind of worthless really... maybe if it was USB-C LoRa or something
Cool idea 👍
It is. It can run over practically everything, including LoRa. Also packet radio modems and serial line devices.
Sending encrypted msg using packet is illegal if on ham cb bands
Nice