Cummins X15 VS. Paccar MX13 - What are you gonna choose?
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2022
- www.SemiCasualShow.com
This video compares the two engine options in the Peterbilt 389. We talk about the benefits of both engine options, take both trucks down the road and try and give you a better understanding of the engine options offered by Peterbilt.
Looking for a new truck? www.FitzgeraldPeterbilt.com - Розваги
Coming from a guy that is currently getting the 2nd complete engine overhaul on his PACCAR MX13 with only 441,000 miles, I choose the Cummins.
I haven't heard anything good about the Paccar from the shops that I take my truck to. I would take the Cummins only because the CAT is no longer available.
The Paccar motor itself isn’t a bad engine, I think it’s some of the parts and pieces that’s bolted to it. We have trucks pushing 500k and the engine itself is good, just issues with the other things.
They are still available just not a factory option anymore but putting a cat in after is better in my opinion because you get to choose how you want to build it and who you want to build it
But you hardly see paccars in the shop,most of them are Cummins
True
@@alfredodelcastillo583 because 99% of trucks have Cummins.
Let me add my 2 cents here. I had a T-800 with an MX-13 in what is probably the most brutal operating area in the USA. It was hooked to a gas wagon and we delivered gasoline to fuel stations in New York City, northern NJ, and western Conn. 2 drivers per truck rotating in 12 hour shifts 6 days per week. Truck never stopped. Each 12 hour shift saw anywhere between 800-1200 lever shifts (10-speed transmission) that’s over 2000 per day easily. Always loaded to 79,990lbs or completely empty. Usually 4-6 loads per shift and 300-400 mile per shift, 3 years later and no issues at all. Those trucks, engines, transmissions were run at their absolute extreme in ridiculous brutal conditions and we never had a single breakdown. When it wanted a regen we let it regen. Took 10 minutes and it was done. Absolutely awesome engines.
I'm at 999,712 miles on my 2015 MX13. Only big work on it was replace the head at 880k. Other than that oil changes. It's been good to me.
We own a 2019 567mid roof with the Paccar powertrain system. For our application, hauling new RVs, we don't need a 15 litter engine. Our gross weight is around 40k. This engine works great for us. Our problem is the after treatment garbage. We are currently sitting in Spokane, Wa waiting for the warranty to approve a new DPF filter. Our avg. mpg is 7.5. If I had my way it would be a 6NZ cat engine. We are in our 60s and love the quite sound in the truck. Been trucking for over 35 years.
I still say the government and the trucking industry has rammed this emissions crap down our throat yet it isn't reliable or cost effective. How can these treatment systems be environmentally good for the planet when the amount of extra fuel burnt during those Regens is astronomical?
There are many people in the trucking business that are hardheaded and stick with the old. When you drive a Paccar engine you have to learn to change your ways and to be open to learning something new. The longer you drive A truck with a pack car engine you will realize it may not have the big bottom and torque but if driven properly it can perform the same as a Cummins or better. And most definitely when you go to refuel you will notice a huge difference. I was always a cat man and still to this day love them engines But between the Cummins and the PACCAR I will always choose a packer.
I gotta hand it to these two kids. The really have built one hell of a good channel. They are likable and creative characters with good personalities and actually this episode really shows how knowledgeable as well as entertaining they really are.
I machine the blocks at the Cummins JEP in Busti New York that builds the X15 awesome engine. Great company to work for
Keep up the good work
Every Packard engine I have been around always had sensor issues and didn't get the big miles out of it. The Cummins red were put together a lot better with very little problems.
We ran the paccar for a little bit, changed oil pans on all of them(cracking), stayed in the shop a lot. We hauled around 75000 on flat ground mpg was about 7.5. We went back to Cummins!
What is your average with the cummins compared to paccar?
I have isx15 on my kw t660 is a factory 550 and I added the pdi carb legal tune exahust manifold pdi, oil cooler pdi dual cooler and I have 336 gears on 18 spds my fuel is about 7.8 mpg at fully loaded, tipical 79,000 pounds and the power is unlimited, Cummins all the way
Had it been available, Cat would be my top choice. When I drove trucks with Cat engines, either a 3406 or C15, it was instantly a noticable improvement in pulling power over the others.
I retired from trucking many years ago but...if I were to get back into it I would buy a 2000 with a Cat in it and love every mile😆😆😆😆😆
@@ford32able how about an RV with Cat power? I could deal with that.
3406e for the win
Have you compared it to the cummins X15 or even the later isx15's? I noticed the cummins was better stock for stock vs my 3406a and got better fuel economy.
FYI - C-12, 15, 16 etc is the engine size (Liters) and 3406 is like the Block model. I assume that this is what you meant....
Im a cummins guy. I know how to work on them and they're reliable. Everyone I have talked to who went to paccar for their fleet, said they regretted it.
I'm a CAT guy👍🏻. That said........I'd go with the Cummins. Really enjoyed the comparison though. Beautiful country there too. Thanks guys!!!
Im 3406e...3 mil and rolling..
Great job guys on comparing the two engines. Really cool. Thx for the information
I had a 2016 Pete 389 with MX-13 , 505, 510 HP (can't remember now) put just under 500K on it with NO issues, no sensor problems. I loved the sound of that engine, yes it was quite, so quite I could hear the air getting pulled in those twin air breathers on a quite night out west. It had a Horton fan clutch that only came on when pulling up a steep grade. It also sounded good when idling. I now have a Kenworth W990, X-15, 565-1850 with the same fan clutch and it comes on when driving in the yard or truck stop which stirs up all the damm dust. It does not sound good either. When iding it sounds like marbles or something ready to come loose. It also sounds like crap when accelerating, reminds me of an old Cadillac that's missing one 1 or 2 cylinders. I don't like it, it cost a hell of a lot more and is heavier. I pull a tanker and can't haul as much product. For you guys that like the big power, Paccar is coming out with the MX-15 in the near future!
Paccar is coming out with a MX-15? I had always wondered if that would ever happen.
Just turn the ac off when in the yard
You got an article or any info on that supposed mx15?
When pulling hard the Cummins sounds like it has an exhaust leak to me
Depending on your needs, sometimes the bigger displacement engine can make the choice for you. I'm a Heavy Haul/Oversize guy, I run a new Western Star 49XSB 4 axle daycab and I'm a huge fan of the X15, I run the 605/2050 with an 18 speed. The pulling power of the X15 is pretty much unmatched for me, the MPG is actually pretty good for having the ability of hauling very heavy load, and the downtime has been basically zero. For "regular" weight hauls, or even doubles in the 120,000-140,000 range the MX would probably get the job done just fine, but my preference has just always been to spec with the big HP, and not have to work a smaller engine a lot harder to get the job done.
If you think that cumapart has power then I can only imagine what youd think about the C18 in my 367 Pete. My Cat has 50% more torque and over 200 more horsepower and NO REGEN!!! It would pull your truck over the river and through the woods all the way to Grandmas house. Its rate for 150 tons whats yours rated for?
@@MasterWitchDoctor You're talking a modified truck with an engine that isn't even available in a new tractor for highway use, I'm talking 100% stock that you can drive out of the dealer's yard. Once I get some mileage on it we'll probably have a few mods done, but stock vs stock, you bring a new Pete or whatever with a Paccar, DD16 or a C15 Cat reman and hook up with a nice load and we'll see. Gotta compare apples to apples, by the way, the strongest factory stock tractor I've ever driven was in England, a relative drives a Scania with the 16 liter V8, 770HP, that thing is a real beast, I wish they sold them over here. Google Scania Trucks, interesting how they do the job across the pond.
You could run the Paccar with those weights but it would suck, Canadians do it all the time with that low power in the Prairies, thank goodness I never had that spec
@@MasterWitchDoctor Lol, I think mine can handle anything that gets thrown at it. Check out what a Cat D10 cable plow with rock ripper weighs and the 3 axle jeep and 5 axle lowboy to haul it with, then add in my 4 axle tractor. Look it up and you do the math, real world work using something you can actually buy .
@@MasterWitchDoctor sounds like a great rig. I run a 770hp V8 Scania here in Australia. She pulls 5 trailers of coal 24/7 7 days a week. Shes just done 3 years of work bought new in 2020. The V8 scania is a beautiful truck with spacious cab and comfort. GVM loaded is around 250 to 280 tonnes. She only shuts down for her service. I have 3 guys working on shifts round the clock. Engines just clocked 24,000 hours run time. No oil leaks on engine trans or diffs. Serviced off hour meter she gets oil n filters changed every 300 hours. Its been a great truck pulls well being a v8 from 950rpm up to 1370rpm she pulls. She's expected to do another 3 years on this current contract so next month shel be getting torn down full engine, diffs and trans rebuilds. All seem fine but as the contract has reliability clauses we want to ensure she will do the next 3 years trouble free. In the last 2000 hours I've noticed shes using 1 to 2L of engine oil between services not too bad really for the hours shes worked. Once the next 3 years are done I will be ordering another one. Ex Pete and Kenworth owner. But the Scania is in another class for performance and comfort.
Cummins would be my choice. I've driven both with automatics and manuals hauling fuel. Cummins just feels safer and more confident especially with their exhaust brake. The paccar required a lot more breaking when loaded and just did a horrible job keeping me at a safe speed coming down grades without using the service brakes. I really hated the paccar in the auto configuration. It was always trying to skip gears for the sake of fuel efficiency then immediately down shift because it didn't have the power to continue. That paccar/auto pair would constantly get lost when fully loaded. I also feel that the Cummins would also bring better resale value.
As far as reliability and durability, it’s hard to beat an old 12.7 Detroit. And with a proper tune, they’ll run with a 3406 E and N14 Cummins with no problems at all.
Great video Tommy and Brian. Very informative. Both beautiful trucks. The comments favor the x15 from those who ve had em.
Paccar sensors go constantly at $800 a time, had nothing but problems with it. So far so good with the Cummins 🤞
The problem with an mx is that they’re almost impossible to keep as older “paid for” truck which is when you really start to make money and afford you the opportunity to say no when people try to get you to work cheap. I had an mx that hauled 140000lbs gross for 500000miles and we didn’t have to touch it but, that’s when all the sensors and other issues started to pop up which forces you to have to go to a peterbilt shop and can get very expensive very quick, plus they’re the only people that can do rebuilds which costs much more. Stick with the Cummins it’s way cheaper over the long term, plus the resale if you so chose is substantially higher
David, I hear you on the mx, my bud's son wrenches on them, not a happy camper, not one little bit. Same as you, they haul B-Trains of nickel concentrate, 500 miles down empty back (mostly).
Pacers are bad engines dont buy one they will break you junk
Yeah,you are correct. I've heard mx overhaul cost as much as a new engine. So might as well buy new engine. I have a mx 13 510 hp. It don't pull as good as the x15 565 hp.
America just has some issues getting used to modern times... Cummins being the only American engine left, because Detroit is building Mercedes engines, Navistar MaxxForce 13 was a MAN design, (off course with VW owning Scania and MAN, they will put that new world engine also in Navistar now they own it) Volvo is off course a Swedish design, and the Paccar is a Dutch Daf design... and Cat quit. Apart from Cummins, none was able to maintain a profit while keeping up with emission standards, while virtually all European brands that existed 20 years ago, still exist today and are even taking over the North American market..
It wont take long before Paccar service will get to the level of established Cummins shops...
@@Sjanzo the only part of the market any of them has "taken over" is the mega carriers. Very few owner operators run those engines because the trucks they are in fall apart long before the engine is ready for an overhaul.
Driving the MX is pleasant with how quiet it is. I love it. It's no ISX though. Driving in the mountains with heavy loads is where the ISX really shines.
X15 Cummins all the way drove over 1 million km had no complaints about that engine
I have worked on both of these engines the labor you will save on the Cummins will far outweigh any upfront savings on the MX. The MX is put together like a jigsaw puzzle not to mention some cab styles you have to raise the cab just to change the #6 fuel injector and connector. The emissions problems are just too much to mention. I have always said if you want to work a 5 day week you should buy 7 trucks with MX engines you might get a full week
Agreed, i work at a dealer, Cummins only come in for services and EGR's, MX's are everything from emissions recalls, issues, wiring problems, or full blown engine replacement
The review i was looking for. MX equipped trucks tend to be slightly less expensive. And there's a cummins mechanic on every corner. #testedtec
Where's your shop?
I'm currently in South Texas.
@@nostradamus7648 I used to work for Kenworth of Pa but I wouldn't trust them to fix a tail lamp. That's the reason I left didn't approve of customers getting ripped off
There's a reason why they call them "Pacshit" engines. 😂
As a mechanic I understand the upfront liking the paccar but you've never had the nightmare of working on one. The long term costs in repairs the paccar will not hold up.
Agreed, I run a shop that has both engines. We can’t get paccars to go over 400k without major repairs needed. Our Cummins have minor issues throughout the same mileage and conditions. Not to mention you can’t even inframe a paccar….
Guys, your comparison just made me a subscriber 👍🏻. I’ve never ran the Cummins but had the Mx modified in a 7 axle concrete mixer and wasn’t impressed. Very temperamental. Cab needs to come off to change an air compressor. Yes mixer is probably one of the hardest applications so that’s all I can add.
Paccar started to make trucks and engines to make shareholders happy rather than truck drivers or mechanics. As a diesel mechanic for 25 years I will pick the Cummins.
I work on both. Paccar can be great for an OTR fleet, but reliability is way worse on a Paccar. The downtime I see on these trucks is absolutely crazy, so I would caution the use of an MX in an owner op or small fleet
You forgot the most important difference, RESELL value. One better than the other, doesn’t matter. What matters is what used truck buyer thinks, and MX motors come up way short when side by side with a used Cummins powered truck on the for sale lot.
I'm driving a mx13 right now with an 18speed and the difference compared to the ISX/x15 is massive. Better fuel economy but way less pulling power then the cummins, my old truck being a 2014 388 ISX15 550hp 2150 torque. Used both engines pulling 140,000lb's and both can do it depending on rear gears ratio's but maintenance intervals need to be thrown out the window if you want reliability and longevity out of the engines.
Love you guys presentation you are both knowledgeable and you've earned a new subscriber
The x15 was always great for me. Had plenty of power & never gave me any issues
I ran Paccar pulling bulk tanker for several years, grossing up to 95,000lbs. For the lower 455hp/1650tq rating, them engines worked their little hearts out. It just seems once you get sensors going out, it’s a downhill slide on performance.
Paccar Mx13 sucks sir. With all do respect. Fk pacar
The little bit one saves up front will be spent on labor and parts in no time. EGR flushing and sensors at each flushing not to mention the major problems camshafts, ventilated blocks, ect I would never own one of these pieces of s___
@@oldsoulstuckinabadtime6132agreed
I think it all comes down to the ease of serviceability, and Cummins is most definitely easier to work on and a lot better platform to get parts and service information. At work we have one paccar and it seems to always be at the Pete dealer getting work done due to us not having paccar software
Just bought a x15 with a 18 speed in a kw I run a hopper bottom and I no problem with pulling great set up very happy with it 😀
I will take a mx to many bad experiences with Cummins over the years
fuel Mileage is big and weight.
Very informative video.
thanks
I drive a 2019 Pete 579 with a Cummins X15 efficiency series and we haul water in the socal region, very impressed with their mileage and their power is very nice, I pull hills quite easily mostly down the grapevine into Bakersfield. The engine brake on this truck is really good, it keeps you from having to apply the brakes to often and I like that, I think if i had my own truck I’d go with the cummins rather than the mx.
Yeah x15 pulls that range good. So does dd15. What about paccar?
@@kdawgtv1333 You know I’ve never driven a Paccar but I see a lot of trash trucks pulling up hills and doing it with ease, a buddy of mine works for one of those companies but he drives a Freightliner with a cng engine and he tells me that those Paccar trucks the other guys drive are loaded with about 52,000 to 54,000 lbs and they almost run up the hill, they certainly pass my buddy up like nothing so that’s got to count for something.
@@bullymaguire4457 I just bought a 2016 with an MX 13 need to find a good tuner for it I know it’s on the Canadiens have somebody they deal with those little trucks or animals and these are guys that are hauling logs with Paccars
I’m not sure where the MX getting better fuel mileage comes from. I had a 2020 455 MX-13, and now have a 2022 450 ISX. I am on average getting 1.5-2mpg better than I could ever squeeze out of that MX-13, and my ISX is geared lower than the MX was. I also constantly spent time in the shop with it for sensor and DEF/DPF issues. If I hadn’t worked for ‘the largest refrigerated carrier in the US’ I would’ve spent MONTHS in the shop instead of the weeks I did waiting on back ordered parts. I’m 1000% more happy with my ISX than I ever was or could have been with that MX-13.
A lot has to do with you’re gearing and ratios.
@@bierutki you clearly didn’t read my comment. I said that my current truck with the Cummins is geared lower (2.93s) vs the Paccar (2.64)
I have a new 2024 Pete 579 with the Cummins X15; empty, I'm getting 11mpg in the mountains, 13 on flat lands, and loaded, between 8-9.5. Amazing truck and engine! 👌
Best comparison review so far
fantastic video brilliant explinations of the differences between the both plus the banter between you both😂😂
From my experience the best motors are the ones that run.
Exactly.
Your not making money with your truck in the shop. They all have issues.
@@david_onthetrail unfortunately it’s just all too common, I’ve found Cummins to be very inefficient when dealing with warranty issues
Me personally, I've had 3 paccar mx13 engines, and every one of them have treated me very well and I really liked them. Some def system issues, but the engine itself was great to me, maybe I've been lucky.
Drove most of the trucks out there. Started with a Columbia with a Detroit series 60 moved on to a cascadia withe a series 60 really liked those engines from there went to a 388 with a Cummins 485 loved it had a 13 speed and ran great from that went to a 389 Cummins 15 with the 550hp with 18 speed. I really miss the Detroit 60 but my favorite was the Cummins 550, good spin not loud at idle great power. These were my personal trucks. I have driven Kenworth and international but they both had Cummins great trucks as well. Really do like the Cummins.
Cant wait to here update thanks guys
Cummins X15 Efficiency series would've been a more fair comparison to the Paccar MX13. The X15 performance outclasses the MX13 in power but not MPG.
At my local Peterbilt dealer, there are more trucks in the shop with the Paccar engines than there is with the Cummins. Even the mechanics I know there say the Cummins is the better choice.
I’ve been shopping for a truck and from what I can find on reviews I think paccar will work just fine as about half my work is empty miles and the loaded are easy running so I’m going with paccar starting in February 2024. Great video and you’ve got me convinced
Good video guys, thank you, i have a x15 and I love it
Personally, I take a Cat motor, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with the Cummins.
I am waiting to see a CAT with common rail technology, It will be great
I’m a cat engine person too
The Paccar is the engine that's in the DAF in the UK and Europe but wee get a 530hp and it's good for about 12 to 14 mpg all depends on the driver of the truck and where he gives a dame about the fuel or not, but great video as always guys
i assume those are imperial gallons? 4.5 liters vs 3.875 liters. that makes a 20% difference. Still good though. overall highway speeds are higher here in the US, 70mph vs 62mph in Europe.
I have x15 , happy with it .
I have a 579 x15 efficiency 500hp 1850 torque with 13 sp ultra shift 3.08 gears 260wb o/o specs front air ride. 80 inch sleeper platinum interior all the goodies I get 8mpg running 65mph. I'm that 60 year old guy who wants quiet, smooth, and easy to drive. Once the knees go south, shifting is out. Had the big stuff when I was younger, but this by far is the best truck I have ever had.
I’ve driven both. The most noticeable difference is the engine brake. With Paccar, you need to run the fan on long steep down grades. It adds parasitic load to the engine to make it acceptable.
The Cummins hands down has better torque and engine brake in the mountains. I live on I -70 in western Colorado, and can attest.
I pretty much Drive in the flat land of the Midwest currently. But in the past I used to do Chicago to Atlanta runs. There's no question if you're near the mountains there will be no substitute for horsepower and torque and for that matter probably engine displacement. A larger ring-gear to the pinion-gear is also a nice thing to have in the mountains.
Finally!!! Someone said it. Thank you! All these videos are about pulling power, torque, how fast can we get up a hill, etc. No one mentioned an important factor until now....engine braking ability. One thing will always stand true in big bore engines. Their engine brakes (when working properly) will always be stronger than smaller liter engines, especially with todays dual lobed cam and VGT braking systems
@@jamescaliendo1030
Yeah it's really hard to compare engines bobtailing because they're not working. Of course if you're going to Bob till around I'll probably settle for the fuel mileage because it can't be such a dog otherwise regarding the mx-13.
But as I said in other comments comparing engines: time is money-- at least for this commenting owner operator.
I have 11 legal hours per 10 consecutive hours off up to 60 such hours per rolling seven calendar days. That extra hour it may take that smaller engine to get to a destination may mean I have to lay up at a truck stop instead of getting home at night. This means where I live, I'll have to idle the truck all night either to keep warm or to keep cool. At $6 a gallon diesel. This will be roughly $60 a night just in fuel costs and I'm not even counting the wear and tear on the engine and the input shaft of the transmission amortized non-cash costs. So now how much does that small engine have to save to make up for let's say $75 worth of fuel and wear and tear on the engine per night not getting home?
Other times I have driven small engines, the top three Gears of the transmission were usually are 8th 9th and 10th the trucks just couldn't get out of their own way even when I was un laden calling a container.
For.examplw, the westboumd U.S. 20 upward cloverleaf that merges on to s. . ouboumd Interstate 94 in Northwest Indiana: every lane is the Hammer Lane and if you have a truck that can't get up to 55 mph in speed wit in 3 miles you're going to have people driving up your rear end.
I drive a car that has relatively more horsepower than the average car for its weight that was built in the year 2000 no my Solara doesn't get the fuel mileage of a Corolla but there's times when I need to put it in second gear and get it up to 6,000 RPM to pass around idiots or to merge on a highway. You could say that it's unsafe to drive a vehicle that doesn't have enough power to merge with traffic.
I even had a Cummins mechanic tell me that JB Hunt has a program in their company trucks that keeps a driver from accelerating fast so it feels like the truck can't get out of its own way to the driver and order to save fuel. I've said it many times: if a load is going to make me sweat that I only get 6.2 miles per gallon, then I'm not going to take it; I can always find something better.
@@2256jimmy Paccar did not use the fan on strategy. On Cummins, it's a feature that can be enabled, or disabled.
CAT power is my choice...lol. I actually have an old 359 with a 3406B model CAT and a newer 2016 389 with a C15 CAT and nothing beats it IMO. However, to be fair I also just acquired a 2019 389 with the MX13 510/1850 torque and haul bulk like you mentioned and it definitely gets the job done and affords me a little more payload. It is smooth and very quiet compared to the others so I do feel a bit less taxed at the end of long days/weeks. So far I am very happy (impressed even) with this setup and looking to see over the long term. Love your channel and builds, keep up the great work!!!
Hi Jamie from Australia, we have nothing but Cat C15 stuff here in my trucks, good to see the Cat engines get a mention, they seriously are still my choice too, all the best from Australia 🇺🇸🇭🇲🤝
Great video. My traditionalist self still loves the CAT3406. My bias is that, I know Cummins as it falls into a comfort zone. I guess it really comes down to picking the right tool for the job.
I’ve had 3 Paccar’s and love them!
I have a MX with over 400k miles, the only problem I've had was the Def system, never a problem with the engine,,,other then that it's a work horse and the fuel economy is great, I average 6.8 loaded and I'm always heavy, but I also drive 65 to 68 per mile, if I'm empty I get over 7 miles per gallon, on my 389 peterbilt.
I believe there were reliability issues at one time with the MX. Uptime is super important to me. That's the reason we stick to Cummins.
Sinister.Shelby, You're a smart man.
Cummings is the only motor cat used to be right in there but I will only drive trucks with Cummings engines
If you want to work a full 5 day week buy 7 trucks with MX engines and you might complete a full week
@@4321grp He is a smart man but just not smart enough to buy a Chevy instead of that 13/14 GT500 that looks like Z06 food.
Both dealerships kenworth and peterbilt service mgrs told me without hesitation 2 avoid paccar mx engines!
Cummins. Best engine I’ve had, easy to find parts almost anywhere when parts are hard to come by.
Thanks for sharing this video guy's .. me personally have to say I buy me 2015 Kenworth t680 whit the PACCAR MX 13 , have this truck running now for almost 2 years .. and no one single problem yet .. but my engine was deleted from def and all that crap .I guess that's why.. thanks...
Like yall said, it depends on the application. If you're constantly pulling 80,000 lbs down the road, then the higher displacement, higher horsepower Cummings with the 18 speed is the better option. In my case, I haul air freight on a dedicated run with very few hills, so I went with the MX-13, Paccar auto & drivetrain rated at 455hp/1650 torque. At 70 mph, I'm only turning 1270 rpm and averaging 8 mpg in my 579. I love the MX. However, I don't care what Paccar says about 75,000 mile oil change intervals, I change mine at 50,000 using Rottela full synthetic 5w-40 and a gallon of Motorkote. I calculated that this setup is going to save me about $50,000 over a 5-year period compared to my old DD15 equipped Freightliner.
I like to feel the engine and hear it too, helps with shifting ques. The Cummins with more torque and HP will be able to shift at lower RPM due to its higher torque and power. Still prefer a manual transmission over the autos for driver control around a job site, some of the autos are not driver friendly for creeping around a job site, especially in reverse.
They're also not easy to work doing Regional stuff for 99% of my driving's on asphalt or concrete. I swear auto shift Transmissions were put in place to force us older guys either into our own trucks with our 13-18-speeds or to leave the industry.
No its so they can throw people that have no idea what their doing into a truck
My name is Gerald I bought a 2012 386 Peterbilt MX13 485 HP about 8 years ago truck now has almost a million and half miles all I've done to it? 2 injectors one injector pump overall it has been a good I would seriously consider buying another pete with an MX13 510hp 👍 👍
I have been pulling a set of B-trains hauling steel coils - In Canada with a 2020 Pete. 389 with a Cummins X-15 @ 500 H.P. / 1850 Torque. For almost two years now and I can tell you the X-15 is a great engine. Lots of power all the way down to 1000 RPM. I shift the 18 speed @ about 1200 RPM , and it will run out to 1450 in top gear @ 100 KM/H . You won't need no more .I can get as good as 6.0 MPG with 135,000lb. Gross. And as low as 5.0 MPG. Depends on conditions. Empty with the Joints @ (43,500lb) can get 7.0 MPG.
I have my first MX now for the last 3 years. Parts availability has improved and no issues so far. I can not say that they are bad at all. I have no problem passing when loaded or any issues up hill. It was a learning experience for sure. As far as HP and Torque, you can always spec out higher drives to assist with the slightly less HP and Torque of the MX. the lighter weight of the MX has been an advantage as well. Thanks
How many miles does your truck have?
Higher drives?
The long term maintenance and downtime costs of the MX will surpass the up front savings. Parts and service availability is night and day. No matter the application, I would just stick with a Cummins and spec it to best suit the job.
My last Paccar experience was with Western Distributing out of Denver. They run mostly Paccar 510 HP, the highest rating on that engine. 18 speeds and I think 3:20ish gearing. I was in a 389 Pete. They have some W990 Kenworths, as well.
The senior drivers get to spec their trucks, and they get Cummins.
Heavy loads of beer and meat going west out of Denver sucked. Coming back from Salinas, with maybe 10K pounds of lettuce in the box they did pretty well. Decent mileage running 72 mph.
Something interesting I learned while working there. The owner is very business savy. He buys engines directly from Paccar, and has them drop shipped to Peterbilt and Kenworth. I was told this saves the company a lot of money on factory markup.
Whoever told you this shit is has no idea what he’s talking about. Paccar owns Peterbilt and Kenworth. You can not buy a Paccar engine and drop ship it to the factories.
@@justins7867 why not ? Have you been to an assembly plant ? Wealthy business people operate at a different level than what most people do.
Just because Paccar owns Peterbilt & Kenworth doesn’t mean it’s one business. They are all separate business entities.
The long time fleet manager at Western told me about the engine supply deal. He doesn’t BS !
The highest rating of the MX-13 is 550 HP.
ua-cam.com/video/ZNpTB48XTxc/v-deo.html
My experience with the MX-13 is that it's an amazing engine until its not. What I mean is when those sensors start going out, it's a ripple effect that just topples those engines and they are not cheap. DO NOT buy a used truck with a MX-13 in it, the extended warranty options offered by Paccar do not cover the majority of the sensors and trust me, they have A LOT. I advise only purchasing a truck with this motor in it brand new and letting all work fall under OEM warranty and if it shows any signs of faultiness, turn it back in immediately. These engines have also been known to have head issues due to bad fuel injection pressure, so IF you are planning to buy one second-hand from a dealer (which I highly advise against), inquire about the motor and do your due diligence.
Well said thanks I have worked on them at Kenworth of pa they're truly a piece of junk
I couldn't of said tht any better
10-15 yrs ago I would've taken the C15 or 60 series Detroit for standard OTR legal weight loads. As far as the engines that are available today, 3 trucks later and ive gotta say Cummins is the way to go! ALot less expensive in the long run!
Keep an older truck or glider kit
The MX' I've driven in 2016 T660, and currently a new 2023 MX in a T880 all vibrate like crazy at idle and under load. More then the X-15 of comparable vintage and even more than a 2001 Series 60 I used to drive . They also start harder than the X-15.
Yes the paccar has longer service intervals but eventually you’ll be getting an oil change and they’ll tell you that the inevitable cam replacement that they’re known for needs to be done
I just moved to a mx13 and so far in the flatbed world it is a complete dog. But in defense of the engine that could. I moved out of a 1.8 million mile 625h 2250t 17.2l cat. 4.0mpg average with any where from 5.5, to 6.5, and even 7 mpg rolling down the road at 75mph. I feel like the money I am saving in fuel I am losing in time with the struggle of climbing hills and considerably slower acceleration time from a dead stop. I think I like the quieter ride. Vs 8in pipes with a 12in long resonator. That 379 was loud I loved the sound. In retrospect I should have gone with a Cummins.
As a fleet mechanic I would have to pick the Cummins. We have a fleet of 36 trucks 90% are MX13s. 2 have x15. We have spent more on the mx then x15. Out mx13 have more down time for small issues where the x15 rarely rarely comes in.
Lazy mechanics hate the pacar. Mechanically, the pacar dominates Cummings. It does take longer to work on a pacar. But they break down a fraction as much of a Cummings with 600k miles on it.
I've done back to back testing X15 e5 vs MX13 e5 in my region (south America), and if you have the correct power train selection, the X15 gives better fuel economy and performance here, you can't have the back to back test of the MX13 vs de X15 performance version, you'd have to put it against the 450hp X15 with 1750 lbft of Torque, that way you would be able to compete in fuel economy and Def consumption and also maintenance intervals
great comparison
Hi. I’m from Montreal Quebec, Canada. My brother and I own a small refuse container company. We bought a 2016 Kenworth T800, 12 wheeler roll off. It has an MX13-455 hp. Was happy with it until 2020 when a gear went in the back of the motor 2 months after warranty. Cost us 29 grand to repair. Kenworth wouldn’t cover any of it even though it was a known defect in that motor. I will never buy another peccar motor again. Stick to Cummins.
EPA 18 MX-13 motor . First day I the road was Feb 21’
Just hitting 200k , the truck has had the Clean Air Fleet treatment system on it since 25k miles . I run end dump . Built the truck specifically for what I do , from the wheelbase to the gear ratio . It is set up to do everything I need it to do . It’s a flattop 567 . I run 80k everywhere I go with an 18 speed manual transmission . 67-68 mph everywhere ( I’m obsessed with consistently ) has more than enough power for the 80k gross load , no I’m not the first to the top of the hill , but I’m definitely not the last ( 510hp motor ) I get 6.5 mpg year round avg . Have never seen a check engine light . Truck has never missed a beat . I understand it’s not a ton of miles yet . But I really do think paccar has gotten some major bugs worked out of these things . If you don’t need the big power , and you want a very smooth and quite motor . They are worth a try .
Cat deisel
@@michaeltruscott9443 parts availability
I have a X15 565, 850000 miles still running strong minor break downs I had fuer gear pump go out at around 600k Def problems around 650 I deleted it and a turbo around 750 bought the truck at 400k, Happy with the performance of my engine and very surprised is taken all the abuse I have a team running this truck engine runs non stop for 3 weeks and rest 4 days
I'll take my 550/3406E to the end of my road:) thanks for the ride.
I like the comparison you guys have done in this video and I'd like to add some input of my own experiences with both those engines. Out west here say in Idaho, Utah and Nevada we run gross weights of 106 thousand to 129 thousand and with mountains, hills and such the MX13 struggles. What ever fuel mileage it may have over the X15 goes out the window fast, the Cummins is more durable in the long term for such applications compared to the MX13. So in my opinion if you are running 80 thousand gross or less and a lot of highway driving long distances the MX13 is gonna be a better engine choice for you. Having been around a bit and driven the old N14, 3406 and Series 60 Detroit I have to say the MX13 is the modern day series 60. Great engine for fuel mileage but not a power house by any means while the X15 is a vast improvement over days past large displacement engines is still retains the legacy of engines like the N14 and 3406/ C15.
My mechanic has 2 paccar in the shop for 3 months trying to get a fuel pump.
@@kennethdurden880 I hear you. Left out of comments the mechanical issues with the Paccars only because I'd say the engine itself is good but the components have definitely had issues. The Cummins definitely I think have had overall less issues.
I was running a c-15 for the last 20 years. Just switched to an x15 performance a few months ago. My cat had a little more power, but the engine braking on the x15 is a very big deal. I drive mountains everyday. Cummins has way better engine braking.
Cummins engine braking is definitely the best I’ve experienced. However if I could trade my isx15 for a c15 I would in a heartbeat. The new Cummins engines seem to be designed to make Cummins money rather than the truck owner.
Coming from 14 Kenworth t660 paccar 455 -1750 3:36 10 speed it was a great truck and ran even better after getting passed the emissions cause honestly the def system was killing it .. I sold the truck after running grain with it for years and I honestly hate it .. Truck pulled anywhere from 52k on normal otr runs from central Mississippi to the east coast of Pennsylvania no problem at all .. I never did a overhead anything motor wise to the truck .. I have hauled loads up 90k gross out doing barge runs no problem!! I sold the truck with 780k and it’s 900k plus still running strong and quite engine wise .. I recently bought a 16 Kenworth w900 isx 450-1650 18 speed 3:55 and after a year of running it which I will point out it was well taken care of but like all Cummins 605k it needed a overhaul.. Runs good now but if I had to choose for OTR and grain hauling I’ll choose my non emissions paccar!!!
I built the X15 for Cummins JEP for 3 years on the assembly line. I know those engines quite well.
Will it be more wiser to choose it over paccar despite fuel efficiency and comfort still?
I've been Cat and Cummins my entire life. But I've just put 260000 miles on a 510 mx 13 in 19 months and I love it
Look at the number of electrical harnesses on the MX vs the Cummins, winner Cummins.
The MX can run at lower rpm, this is where the fuel economy comes from. Certain series of the Cummins can run at lower rpm, but not as low as the MX. Refer to the product sheets for the Cummins series, and the MX. Go too low with the Cummins, on a regular basis and the cylinders will be moving in their bores.
Service locations, yes winner, Cummins, hands down.
On any of the new engines, no long idle periods, that gets you plugged sensors and DPF systems, with resultant shop times as a result.
A good APU, is your friend.
You want long service life, shorten the oil change intervals, thus extending the time between rebuilds, means more money in your pocket. Sure you will pay a little more up front, but, more time on the road generating income, that is where I wish to be.
I have a 2023 ixs15 cummins and on the dash they have a green bar on the rpms betwen like 1200-1350. Is there was i should be running at? I use to run the old cats and climbing hills all day. But now running on flat land
@@hunterjones1593 With that rpm range, I'm thinking you have an efficiency series. I would keep it around 1300-1325 rpm, above 1350 the fuel consumption starts going up as your horsepower developed goes up, along with speeds over 60 mph, where wind resistance, overtakes rolling resistance. But talking to a specialist at Cummins, to figure out your sweet spot, is best. They designed the different series, for different applications/running conditions.
It all works together, aero-truck or square W9 style, your terrain you travel on (flat, you mentioned), gap between trailer and tractor, final drive ratio vs speed you wish to travel at, are you light loads like a few friends, who carry kitchen cabinets (very light loads), to my oldest friend still on the road who is a tanker yanker (near max).
If you didn't spec the truck with your dealer, you might have to have a serious sit down with the Cummins rep, to figure if you can gain any advantage by switching final drive ratio. YMMV, seriously!
Best wishes from the far North.
You guys are like my best friend and myself. I’m always buying just enough, and he always buys the biggest and baddest. With that comes $$$.
We have 11 liter paccar engine in some our trucks and they constantly have injector problems. They are in the shop every couple of weeks
I ran with a MX-13 for about 10 months, went in the shop about 5 times for major problems with DEF system. I once had the truck needing to regen 4 times within a span of 2 hours. Another time the truck began to de rate out of nowhere. Cummins is the way to go. I’ll take a Peterbilt and Kenworth with either a Cummins or a Detroit DD-15
Def isn't a paccar engine issue. The def system is the same on a paccar and the x15. It's a peterbilt or kenworth item.
I've owned MX's since 2010, had Cummins, Cat's, and 60 series Detroit. I did a lot of research before choosing, warranty coverage and cost. Had a Cummins prior and wasn't happy with warranty. I run my trucks 3 years and get a new one, but always put the extended warranty on them. Emissions were the biggest problem till 15,16. Maintenance is the most important part of owning trucks. CEL comes on get it checked, doesn't matter what color it is.
My 2010 had all kinds of emission problems, was the 455hp multi torque, I could run with any 1850 torque cat or Cummins and get better mpg. My 2017 was bought by a friend of mine, he deleted the emissions after 500,000 and warranty ran out has 800,000 on it and it's still running strong.
I’ve driven an MX in a T680 and I’m currently driving a T680 with a 500 ISX. The MX doesn’t get better fuel mileage. For about the same weigh they get about the same fuel mileage and the the Cummins will out perform the MX in every other way. Plus, having a Cummins doesn’t limit you to as many shops when you need repairs. I see the MX as a better Volvo engine. Better power and better fuel mileage than a Volvo. And I had less problems than I did in the Volvo. Then the Cummins is the next step about that. Ok, it’s lighter but how much of a problem is 410 lbs on the steer axle. So far I like the CUMMINS better.
I like em both, great video
I think the Paccar engine is a great option in some applications especially in the aero truck side of things. I know that Kenworth is putting the Paccar engine in the new T680 next GEN trucks so that they can more aggressively compete with the Cascadia and Volvo trucks. Which have been known to be more efficient for quite some time now.
@Alex S fuel economy
@Alex S you know paccar owns kenworth? Along with Peterbilt also
Also, I'd like an 15 to 15 liter comparison. 15 to 13 is a little unfair. 😂
I have a 565/2050 X-15 in my ‘19 389. Other than the $30k in-frame at 371,669 it’s been ultra reliable. I had no choice but to drive it home from NJ to IA with 50% torque. High crankcase pressure/stop engine immediately warning. Cummins claims my engine was “dusted”. Around the same time Cummins released a service bulletin with an upgraded fresh air box on the X-15. I’m now 1 year after overhaul nearing 500k miles and going strong. I pull a reefer and generally loaded up grossing right at 80k. Been running 6.5 -7.0 mpg all summer long. I use/highly recommend Howe’s meaner power Kleaner at EVERY fill-up. Zero emissions issues and improved mpg. In the past when using Howe’s meaner power Kleaner every now & then if I ever got an engine light or emission code adding the meaner power Kleaner would turn off the light/clear the code. I use it year round every fill up. It more than pays for itself.
Had a Fitzgerald glider with series 60. Great power. I used howe’s fuel treat. Half bottle each side every other fill up and she was smooth!
You guys did a good job of running down the strengths and weaknesses of both engines. That said I've owned both and in 389's. The Paccar was better on fuel until you got up over 120k lbs the the roles reverse. Oddly enough too even though both my trucks were 1850 tq motors the Cummins would run circles around the Paccar when it was hooked up to heavier loads. My Cummins was a 525 but there's no way 20 hp makes that kind of difference. The other point for Cummins was in resale. Any 389 or W900 I've seen listed with a Paccar is minimum 10 grand cheaper on the used Market. My salesman buddy says they sit on the lot way longer too.
Turbos are known to fail on trucks just over 50k miles with the newer MX13's
They have also added 2 more sensors on their turbos as well. Highly unnecessary, but i guess its to regulate boost pressure more since it kept scaring drivers during their rolling regens.
Turbo discharge sounds like a shotgun going off under the passenger side dash.
They both use the same turbo manufacturer
I’ve had that since day one 841k miles ago. Always thought it sounded like I was tearing plastic. Lol
There is just something about how clean Cummins engines are. The X12 and X15 just look good. Heck I'll throw the N14 into that category too. Even old school big cams were clean and simple. The L9s are terrible looking motors. The Paccar are barely above modern Detroits in appearance. Series 60s we're of course great looking engines
Nothing like a good old n14
@@skullydon1558 I agree!
@@skullydon1558 Great motor until the main bearing caps fret
Just rolled over 400k on my 2019 389 X-15/565hp. Only issue so far has been a squeaking idler wheel. Never have driven a Paccar, but am totally happy with my Cummins. Also, they just have so much more experience making engines.
Replace that pulley, I carry a spare. You can get them at FleetPride or any dealer. I use the aftermarket one, big name, same one Cummins sells in their box. It is easy to replace, don't wait for it to fail, as it will make a mess when the belt melts and shit starts flying. I think I paid around $70 for the one I have in my sidebar. They used to be around $30...
So does daf the mx13 is a daf engine if you support American economy buy American Cummins is American paccar or daf is not
Get ready to drop a liner around 500k
I have a 500hp Paccar in the w900 that i drive, when both check engine lights are on its runs like a beast👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey guys, I’m with Brian on this one…..no substitute for power!! I’m in England and I run a 16 litre V8 620hp Scania. The PACCAR in England is DAF which have their major problems over here, that being said, you can’t beat them for seats, and bed quality. BUT, I love my V8 620 👍👍
Yeah DAF is king of comfort and finesse. No fancy stuff just does it's job.
Sensors and head gasket issues aside.
Scania over Cat any day. Ain't gonna lie Euro trucks come out the gate with plenty power. (VOLVO/SCANIA750 HP out the gate.) Took Cummins and Freightliner 2 years to get 605 HP out the gate.