Alaska Airlines CEO says ‘many’ loose bolts found on grounded planes
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2024
- In an exclusive interview with NBC News senior correspondent Tom Costello, Alaska Airlines CEO Ben Minicucci says Alaska technicians have found more loose bolts on grounded planes. All Boeing 737 Max 9 planes remain grounded and hundreds of Alaska Airlines flights have been canceled.
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#AlaskaAirlines #Plane #Boeing
Boeing's CEO is an accountant. Airbus' CEO is an aerospace engineer. That speaks for itself.
So how come Airbus planes have had arguably more incidents?
To be fair, Dennis Muilenburg got his masters in Aeronautics and Astronautics. Being an engineer doesn't shield you from greed.
@@aycc-nbh7289 lol nope. Its Boeing that has had more incidents and crashes
@@aycc-nbh7289 lol no
@@aycc-nbh7289 boeing is firing up the bots, eh?
"When one door closes another one opens!" - Boeing
I thought it was part of their new open door policy and how they plan to let fresh air in!
I laughed at this way harder than I should have.
This open door policy sucks @ 16,000ft and above......
Isn't there a penalty imposed for this type of brinkmanship by an airline??
Financial; in your favour?
@@valeriefromoregon
We all know what happened to the boing 737 max 8 on 2019 2 crashes and if this is the first boing 737 max 9 incident there could be another one if boing is not careful🛬💥
Glad the CEO is speaking out against his supplier. Quality matters, the truth matters. Lives are at stake.
Yes, but he’s really trying to cover his own rear; quality assurance & quality control should be at the forefront of public transport. A good CEO in his industry knows this.
who built the plane herpity derp?@@Rico34
@@Rico34 if you were to buy a brand new Rolls Royce off the lot, would you immediately check all of the torque specs on every nut and bolt? What if you knew that the manufacturing was supposedly being overseen by an independent government agency?
Because what it sounds like you’re saying is that immediately upon delivery of a plane, the first thing an airline should do is essentially take it apart and put it back together. Should they do so with the jet engines themselves, too?
@@lukeb6771That’s not what Rico was trying to say…he just meant that the Alaska CEO went on TV to say all this because otherwise the public might mistakenly think it was Alaska’s fault (eg old fleet, bad safety practices, shady covering up of an exit door). This one is 100% on Boeing.
Usain Bolt
its rare for a CEO to actually say the word “sorry” these days when something goes wrong. Usually they say “we apologize”, which isn’t exactly the same. So props to him
He forgot to thank the Alaska maintenance crews for resetting the indicator lights of a potential issue. Time is money…
@@FighterFlash i think you lost the plot
There is a reason for that you know. Under American law, if someone personally apologises for something, the victim can use that statement to demonstrate financial liability in court. In other words anything you apologise for could be used in court against you to be sued. This CEO made an amateur mistake. Luckily there weee no deaths because if there was those families could now sue the CEO because he just admitted fault when he said sorry
@@ms3862 I think it’s a little more involved than that. Otherwise the term “we apologize” would also admit fault
Every company needs bean counters to stay in business. Business 101.
Honestly, Alaska Airlines is handling this about as well as relatively possible. It’s clear to me that the CEO is being sincere and serious about being mad with what’s happening at Boeing. It takes a lot for a CEO to directly disparage a company that they’re so intrinsically connected with. He isn’t letting Boeing sweep this under the rug. It’s also clear that Alaska Airlines is taking this *very* seriously by actually doing fine-tooth-comb inspections *and* reporting back to the public, in spite of what Boeing would like.
Don’t believe anything out of this dudes mouth. It’s still possible that the airline was responsible for the loose bolts so he’s really just trying to preemptively shift blame and shape the narrative before any official word has come out yet.
Guy seems legit and well spoken.
I felt the same way about the Alaska CEO, he was sincere in his statements. Contrast that with the Boeing statement at the end of this piece 'We're doing a safety stand-down on Thursday to drill down on quality control..' like guys, that really makes me feel much better that your focusing on safety and QA for one of the 365 days in a year.
I’ll be convinced he’s taking this seriously when he cancels all his Boeing orders and puts in orders for Airbus.
Not the simple. Airbus has a big order back log, it would take several years to get Airbus planes.@@incharini
Boeing needs a CEO that understands airplanes not a wall street bean counter.
Like the previous CEO ?
@@Hans-gb4mv Yes
@@Basket_Propellors You mean Dennis Muilenburg, under whom the MAX-8 crashes happened?
@@felixstoger2800 Yeah
Most all major companies are run by "bean counters" I would guess because that's what it's all about, making more beans! But of course, if your product is not up to par, then the market will decide your fate. There are plenty of people at Boeing that know airplanes, just have to make sure you don't let production demands overshadow making a quality product ... everyone at Boeing should understand that implicitly.
If they're finding loose bolts on those doors, where else could there be loose bolts?
Their brains
Any place they don't look.
Exactly my thoughts as well
Wings :o
Hush! How are they going to fly and make money if people don't blindly accept that this is just a fluke, an aberration, a simply rectified minor issue? There can't possibly be anything else wrong with their exacting standards.
One set of bolts on one plane is very poor but to find this all over the place shows how terrible the quality checks within the Boeing ecosystem really are now as many whistleblowers reported
They need to be looking into WHO may have been touching these points of failure. This is starting to look less and less like poor management and corner cutting and more like someone is sabotaging planes on the assembly line.
Boeing likes to hire people with a previous security clearance, but that doesn't always = clean.
@@WindFireAllThatKindOfThingits not about sabotage… boeing has changed their hiring practices. They used to hire top quality aerospace engineers…. But now they are implementing diversity quotas. Simply put, they will skip the line of a top quality engineer in favor of a black or brown person with less credentials.
@@YukiZero Also Boeing used to assemble most if not all of the plane. They have outsourced parts of manufacturing to save money like in this case assembly of the frame including the door plug. At the same time Boeing laid off hundreds of inspectors to save money. What did Boeing think would happen when they made those two decisions?
@@YukiZero Way to make this about you and your hangups. But if you wanted to find a way to make your racism believable, you shoulda just said that they weren't being careful to screen out Chinese agents out to destroy the US aero industry and economy, dummy.
We have forgotten manufacturing quality/workforce has dwindle heavily after the last half Century(This isn't just an American thing, Europe too) Each year goes by you loose that knowledge from someone that didn't have the opportunity to pass down it, or did but the others didn't care... and its lost. So now we are just scrambling to find... quality. It's funny to see in the comments "well Airbus is doing better..." they had their fair share of faults too.. as a whole manufacturing quality is dwindling, just sad to see.
"many" loose bolts...Boeing quality is sure going more downhill than ever
Spirit installs the doors. I can see with my experience in warehousing/shops/manuf. that this will boil down to ONE guy who had ONE job to do. His name is "Drunk Bob" and we can't risk him doing any other work, so we give him th ebolts. He's the bosses nephew and can't GET a job in fast food OR the Tupperware plant: they fire him immediately.
@@user-zp7jp1vk2i fun fact, the reason theyre called Spirit Airlines is because the only thing that survives each flight is your spirit!
@@user-zp7jp1vk2i Boeing removes the plugs when working on the interior.
It couldn't get any lower after their software flew two planes into the sea, we just forgot about it.
@@user-zp7jp1vk2i I'm not an aviation expert, but I saw on another video hypothesizing that spirit assembles/delivers the fuselage, they might not be fully tightening that door plug as they don't know if it'll be used or not, which is done by Boeing once they take delivery and complete the full assembly for the end client; i.e. a failure in process management between Spirit and Boeing.
They also had loose bolts in the rudder for other 737s. This problem seems to be widespread and systematic. Boeing has forgotten how to produce aircraft.
It's not Boeing management. It's the lazy workers that Boeing employs up in Drug and homeless infested Seattle area... Loose bolts means the assembly line workers can't even use a torque wrench properly, apply loctite 27731 with a brush, and are half assing their jobs. Boeing can't even fire the losers on the assembly line because they are unionized lol. Meanwhile in Mobile Alabama at the Airbus Assembly line, there is much less drug use and drug users are actually locked up and prosecuted.
No, that's not fair. Boeing has simply decided that quality assurance is an expense they don't want to pay for. Which of course can result in them losing billions in lost revenue and paying millions, even billions in damages, if their luck is bad. Because that's what they've been doing: Trading assured quality for sheer luck. Gambling. Eventually all gamblers lose.
FAA needs to disassemble a newly delivered aeroplane, as these loose door bolts are screaming a warning to us to look deeper.
As crazy and unprecedented as that is, I agree. At this point, Boeing has zero credibility. All their PR statements, spin and propaganda mean nothing until they walk the talk and ensure quality and safety are intrinsic and built into the manufacturing and assembly process. If that means slowing down and clamping down on their vendors and subcontractors, so be it. At the end of the day, it’s a Boeing product and the buck stops with them. They have learnt absolutely nothing from the max crashes and the MCAS fiasco.
Think you are correct , what else on the aircraft could be loose or missing 🧐😬
@@Vasu_PoluSo how come Airbus still has credibility in spite of their incidents involving windows and landing gears?
@@aycc-nbh7289 Boeing isn't going to offer you a job just because you post anti-Airbus stuff on UA-cam. It doesn't work like that.
The FAA'S "Honorable" leader has a moped endorsement and a degree from Pennsylvania in underwater BB stacking. Sat on a railroad board for a while. She did take her discovery flight though.
"Nobody died this time, settle TF down!" Boeing
Exactly chill. Dw Max 10s will not even make it up to the air
At least he was honest saying we found more loose bolts. I can respect that.
Why wouldn't he be honest about that? In addition to being true, it rightfully shifts blame away from his company.
Why wouldn't they shift blame to exactly where it belongs? Your comment is so confusing.
Only shows that there are likely other faults with the planes.
Of course he would be honest about Boeing's failures.
He is not the one to blame on this. If anything, he wants to push this info out ASAP, because Boeing will do anything to cover this up or worse, blaming it on the airlines😅
If I were Alaskan CEO, I would talk this out first before Boeing CEO even think about it 😅
Their safety stand down is so ridiculous. People on the line have been telling management the QC is horrendous and nobody gives a crap until the planes are grounded and it's hurting the bottom line
I hope they are looking at more than just the bolts.
I hope they are looking at more than just the door plugs.
I hope they do this everywhere and not let planes crash again in Africa or Asia.
Who would have thought that moving assembly to a cheaper workforce could be dangerous?
Especially on a 10-week old plane (delivered fresh from the factory October 2023).
A DEI workforce
@@eddiemunster8634what does DEI have to do with outsourcing your company for cheap labor?
@@eddiemunster8634good grief have trumpers made up something new? DEI? I guess I’m supposed to think that’s bad 😂😂😂😂😂worse than the lgbt whatever else. Now we got woke, DEI 😂😂😂😂
@@eddiemunster8634The absolute irony you say that when Boeing’s blue collar workforce building these planes is about as WASP as you can get.
United is also voicing frustration over Boeing quality control and the delays delays delays. The 777x and 737 max 10 are like 5 years behind schedule and still don't inspire confidence.
Well United just stated they would hire any people of color and women to be pilots despite their qualifications, so I highly doubt United actually gives a crap about safety.
I heard they will speed up Max 10 production by leaving out bolts altogether and using super glue and spit instead.
Unfortunately airlines cannot simply buy Airbus as the they have an even longer waiting list than Boeing.
737 Max is also known as the Grim Reaper Express.
My family has a history of flying Boeing planes. Several of us have flown the 737, 747, 727, and beyond. It is so sad to see what has become of such a great company.
It's what happened when MD took over Boeing.
You are aware that Airbus is only marginally ahead of them in terms of market cap and they have their own similar issues that just don’t make front-page headlines, no?
Results of DEI Wokeness and Chinese parts 🏆🎉🏆🎉
@@aycc-nbh7289 You are aware that Boeing has had too many scandals and documentaries about their quality going down hill right?
@@aycc-nbh7289 You understand that boeing had a reputation for saftey, until Mcdonald Doglous merged with Boeing, fired 14 out of the 15 quality control engineers on each assembly line, instilled their employees into the FAA so they could get permission to ignore safety laws, and fired anyone who said there was a problem that needs to be fixed, including mis-drilled Fuselages which are all just ticking time bombs, which you would know if you watched enough air crash investigations. Boeing did everything to increase profits at the cost of safety, why would anyone be surprised that we could go from a company with an impeccable safety record that rewarded employees for speaking up about problems, to a company that has one problem after another when they fire employees for speaking up about safety problems?
Great to see the CEO speaking out. Very classy. Good on you Alaska Airlines!
He's Canadian though, must be a nice guy
How is Boeing D.E.I. hires doing? Did they know "righty tigh, lefty loose" or they were just checked boxes hires?
I read a post a while back from someone that used to be a Boeing aerospace engineer. He was saying that the DEI hires were disasterous for his department. He found that he had to keep them busy with non-critical tasks to prevent them from doing something dangerous. One of them accidentally deleted hundreds of terabytes of computational flow data. He was able to recover the data. The quality of the work declined so much, that he decided to quit working there.
This is what happens to publicly owned companies. They get pushed and pushed and pushed to make more and more profit quickly without regards to anything, even lives.
Because to a stockholder, all they see are numbers. They don't see the stakes at hand. They don't see the consequences. They don't get held accountable like individuals do. It's more than just the board of directors, the CEO, and the managers. It's a numbers game, and stockholders have the numbers to their advantage to diffuse the responsibility and the push unethical decisions.
I suppose you would prefer to fly with state owned aircraft manufacturing then, like the Tupolev? 😅
@@KingCobraJFS1234No but maybe he was thinking of something like a family owned (privately owned) company where pride is in the product not the profit?
@@KingCobraJFS1234 At the very least, the state must have very strict scrutiny to ensure safety for airplanes.
@@andmos1001But the state may still act for their own profits, since airlines are charged fees for using its air traffic control services and using its airports.
So how come Airbus is being placed onto a higher perch if they are publicly traded as well?
i have one question for FAA, giving that many loose bolts found on grounded max9 planes, does FAA believe that other planes like 777 and 787, are free from loose bolts?
I'm sure they'll duck that question
I would doubt it given those are older planes. Plus, the 737 Max has had a history of problems, so it seems like this is an issue that is affecting the newer Boeing aircraft.
Some countries are actually grounding the newer planes to check if it’s worse than what FAA is saying
The 737 is an afterthought production line and at this point an amazingly outdated airframe.
To give reference to the reasons for neglect, the fuselage of the 737 is the same radius as a 777/787 engine.
In every regard boeing is trying to make the 737 even more cheap compared to their premium 777/787’s
@@wackyotter1235 the loose bolts are more about company culture than the design. There should be a quality control system to prevent loose bolts. So the question is if the 777 assembly line use the same quality control system as 737max.
2:38 "United buying beyond Boeing"
Is a reflection that passengers are stating that they do not want to fly on 737 Max(s).
Airbus A320 Neos is the preferred choice for me.
Maybe you didn't realise, but Spirit Aerosystems also makes parts for Airbus (including the A350 fuselage).
the 'bus is way more spacious, specially for the North American market's belly size.
@@ImperrfectStranger So what? Probably Airbus has it's own quality checks on supplier provided assemblies.
I work for UA in airport operations. This was something that had been brewing for a while, even before this. Older planes were sent for refit comeback with issues that weren't there when they went in for refurbishment and increased maintenance delays after being handled by Boeing. Also, passengers are more willing than ever to pay a premium for better service, which means United is looking to add Polaris Lay Flat Seats to select numbers of domestic narrowbody aircraft. Nothing in Boeing's current fleet can handle that (the old 757-200s can), and the A321 Neos are gonna take that job going forward. Now, I'm not on the business decision-making side of things, but I suspect that once the current outstanding orders for 737s are filled, that will be it for booking narrowbody planes for United for a while planes like the 787 or 777 will probably continue to be ordered as Airbus doesn't have a good competitor to it currently.
@@stratagama Is Airbus no longer making 380s?
Flying Boeing is becoming an extreme sport
So is flying Airbus an even more extreme one? Because they seem to have arguably worse issues.
@@aycc-nbh7289bro I’m what way is airbus worse. Airbus quality control is far superior so don’t lie.
@@garyrea2320Then how come they still haven’t fixed their landing gears and windows after 20 years? Why aren’t they grounding their A321’s because of bad windows?
@@fredblogs2023Yes. They happen, but the media companies don’t seem Airbus incidents as profitable enough to render front page headlines.
Boeing used to be run by engineers. Now Boeing is run by accountants. Safety is not a word accountants know how to spell. Safety is a byword that engineers live by.
Wall street accounts can destroy a 100 year old company in a couple of years. I have watched that happen for the last 40 years.
In the 1950s and 1960s, QANTAS always had its own engineers at Boeing to check that aircraft were built correctly. Looks like other airlines might have to use this method.
Didn’t they literally say Alaska would do this?
Australians are paranoid because everything is upside down for them.
@@aycc-nbh7289 true
Finally this is making the news I’m honestly not shocked it took this long I’ve worked at yvr airport as a ramp agent and I remember seeing loose bolts underneath the aft cargo hold door on Boeing planes these issues go years back but was always swept under the rug I remember I told the maintenance guy he said it’s not gonna fall off but I kept pushing the issue and it turned out the bolts were faulty they had to ground the plane cause they didn’t have the right bolts the manager for the airline didn’t care they wanted the plane to fly it goes to show the airlines don’t care about safety they care about profit margins they were mad at me for getting maintenance to looks at the issue.and I remember this clearly the maintenance guy said thank you for saving it from potential disaster
What other items on the planes that are not correct?
back then, Boeing was THE standard of a good and reliable aircraft manufacturer. 40 year old planes made by Boeing are still flying fine today, like the 747 200 and the 737 200.
747 is safe af and we grounded it because of fuel economy
...that was before the McDonnell Douglas merger in '97 which placed bean counters ahead of engineers. Gotta get those dividends to shareholders...at all cost.
Good old times... It's true, but they will not come back, the company is too far down the drain.
The newest B52 was built in 1962 and are still flying.
Japan needs to make commercial airplanes.
Oh great idea. Another thing we would have to rely on from the far east, when war is about to break out in that whole region.
They do, It is the Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation.
@@norcalandrewwhat makes you think war is about to break out?
Kawasaki is also an arts dealer. edit: I mean arms dealer.
@@GreenVibezIguanaDaddy Well the Honda Jet is made in Greensboro, NC
Those bolts aren't supposed to be tight they did not clamp anything and they do not hold anything together all they do is stop movement that is a side load, the nut has a split pin to stop the Bolt from falling out. They're trying to muddy the waters because the bolts were never installed.
The problem is outsourcing and putting $$$ ahead of quality.
Boeing KNOWS exactly who's job it was to torque those bolts to the proper specified values. Is anyone doing something in that line? What's THAT union member got to say for themselves or are they from a non-union subcontractor? There's more to this story. It aint a software problem this time.
These companies recruit people from burger king nowadays so it could have been a new hire
Appointments based on race and gender rather than apptitude, talent or experience
This is silly. The reason you have quality control is to double- and triple-check things. The idea that you can remove quality control to cut costs like Boeing did, then pressure people to never ever make mistakes the first time is absurd.
For those claiming that Boeing has a better safety record, from IEEExplore report comparing air incidents for 737 and A32x “ It was found that Boeing had more accidents than expected, while Airbus had fewer (p = 0.015)“ and “Looking at the reported fatal and hull loss accident rates, it was also found that the annual reduction for the Airbus A32x aircraft were better than for the Boeing 737 aircraft”
Don’t support bad companies just because they are the national champion or they will get worse. I’m British and remember the British car industry.
Are you sure about this? We haven’t heard of Airbus’s recent incidents that could have caused even more hull losses had things gone awry.
@@aycc-nbh7289 I can only quote the abstract. The full article is behind a paywall.
The 737 typ is far older then the A320. A lot of the 737 crashes where in the 70,80is. But airbus has planes like A380, A340, A220 with 0 deaths since production.
@@Francis-yc9nc Even if this is true, it still means that most of Boeing’s fatalities were decades ago and Airbus has had multiple dances with death in the past 20 years.
No matter what, Americans can't accept that something produced in the USA is lower quality than similar products made elsewhere in the world. Mass brainwashing since birth.
This is crazy. I flew home from having visited family for Christmas & New Year’s one day prior to the incident!
So you flew on Boeing 737-9 registration N704AL the day before or some other 737-9?
It meant you played Russian Roulette and the gun did not go off and blown off your head.
@gwaeron8630 Not on the same plane. It was, however a Boeing through Alaska Airlines.
One of my favorite old quotes is "Dangerous things are coming when powerful men rush to tell the truth." This CEO is very quick out of the gate to point the finger very directly at Boeing. I expect there is a hammer out there about to fall over this whole issue or an even bigger one and everyone's scrambling to show they're not to blame. Boeing doesn't have anywhere to point, so they're falling on their swords early.
We’ll see. Last time they still figured out someone to blame it on internally and used the test pilot as a scapegoat even though all the upper management was fully aware of the system issues.
By the way, Boeing has left hammers and other tools in the KC-46 tanker wings in 2019…
What a bunch of nonsense
Who would you then fault if not the manufacture?
A manufacturing quality issue is completely on the manufacturer. Who do you think should take the blame? The airlines that bought Boeing aircraft in good faith? Should they have to do a nut&bolt inspection of their brand new aircraft?
A full government audit needs to take place of all Boeing commercial enterprise's, not just the 737 line, it is incomprehensible that multiple airplanes have the same loose bolt defect, it's obvious that there are extremely inadequate quality procedures in place, right now, if it's Boeing, I ain't going
So how come Airbus gets a free pass if they have had arguably worse issues and more of them?
worse like the doors flying off mid flight? @@aycc-nbh7289
@@aycc-nbh7289 such as?
You seem to be replying under every comment critiquing Boeing trying to discredit Airbus@@aycc-nbh7289
The conversation today isn't about Airbus. The conversation is about Boeing!
Boeing is messed up!
Stop wasting your time defending what is obvious by pointing fingers.
Airbus planes are not the one crashing or putting people's lives at risk.
I'm very glad no one was hurt and I'm sorry they had to go through that fear
I was on one of these planes about a month ago going and returning from Florida for Christmas, no issues very thankful.
At this point, EVERY airlines in the world should avoid Boeing aeroplanes like the plague.
This time I do believe there will be a backlash against Boeing
Should they also avoid the Airbuses which Spirit makes parts for (including the fuselage for the A350)?
@@rogerwilco4736I will vote with my dollars and try to avoid booking flights on newer Boeing aircraft for now…
@@ImperrfectStrangerstop making excuses for a multi billion dollar company, they do not care about you or your fanboying
Fact of the matter is, Boeing doors are falling out while the plane is in the sky, Airbus doors are not
@@ImperrfectStranger Most people don't realize that. If I were the CEO of Airbus I would be taking a second look at what is coming out of Spirt! If I were an Airline CEO I would be taking a close look at any plane that had door plugs regardless of if the plane was an Airbus or and Boeing!
If those bolts are loose, what else is loose? Could the plans that crashed have been a result of terrible build quality?
I suddenly find myself pondering the meaning of “wing nut.”
The two MAX 8 crashes were due to the MCAS system being equipped with two angle of attack sensors but being programmed to only use one of them. Apparently something went wrong with the one sensor on both planes, causing MCAS to falsely detect excessive climb. Could have been actual sensor failure, could have been a big insect hit the sensor and the goo left on it upset its aerodynamics, causing it to rotate incorrectly.
Had MCAS been programmed to take input from both AoA sensors and compare them against each other and against other flight data, the crashes wouldn't have happened. There should have been a "sanity check" where if sensor inputs didn't jibe with expected aircraft behavior at each part of the flight, MCAS should have been coded to pop up an alert and shut itself off. It also should have been coded to self disable if the pilot pulled back on the yoke extra hard, which IIRC the reports showed they did, while MCAS dove the planes into the ground.
It's a lesson similar to what Airbus learned in their early fly by wire airliners where they had the computer override pilot inputs on the throttle to reduce noise and save fuel. Most airline pilots like taking off at full throttle so should anything happen, the engines are already at full power. No waiting critical seconds should an undetected downdraft pop up across the end of the runway. A couple of Airbus planes crashed when they likely wouldn't have, had the computer allowed full throttle. Then there was that airshow crash where they wanted to do a low pass but the control system wouldn't allow it. Approach to a runway like that was *landing*, not showboating for an audience. After a bit of twiddling with the system they got it setup to where the pilot could make an approach and stay several feet above the runway, but nearing the end of the runway, when the pilot pushed the throttles, the plane essentially went "Nope. Landing." and flew into the forest at the end of the runway instead of allowing a full power climb out.
Boeing forgot that Airbus lesson. The pilot is *always in charge*. Anything automated should be easily and quickly overridden by the pilot. A pilot should be able to make any control inputs while flying, without being able to damage the plane in the air. Remember the Airbus that lost its tailfin in 2001? The pilot was whanging the rudder back and forth, without pausing in the center per the flight manual instructions. Boeing's tailfins were built to withstand any abuse the pilot could do with the rudder pedals. The Airbus tendency was to build things just strong enough. Boeing built things considerably stronger than the minimum requirements.
The other big issue with MCAS was Boeing didn't want the FAA requiring a new Type Certificate for the 737 MAX series. Boeing "marketed" the MAX to the FAA as being minimally different to fly from previous 737's so pilots wouldn't have to go through the costly additional training like they would to be certified on a 767 or A320 after being certified on a 737.
As part of that, Boeing did not require pilots to have extensive training on MCAS and other new features of the MAX. Just read through the manual and you're good. No need to practice and be tested on the new stuff. Without something in the computers saying "Hey! MCAS is flying the plane into the ground! You might want to turn it off!" those four pilots on those two MAX 8's didn't have the trained and practiced knowledge to recognize the problem. They reacted as any pilot would in a plane apparently out of control and diving, Pull up! Pull up!
Someone knows his stuff very well 👍✌...
Imagine other bolts in other places ..
If so many of those bolts are loose, how many more parts are not installed properly?
I've heard that, at least once, that there was a loose or missing bolt on the tail rudder.
dont worry about rudder failure lol....passengers wont feel a thing & insurance will cover the crash
I bet they miss their Airbus planes.
I don’t know, since Airbus has had its share of quality issues that are arguably even worse.
In what way could the problems be worse? Airbus quality control is far superior and the sales figures along with crash statistics speak for themselves.
@@aycc-nbh7289 What could be more worse than loose bolts in critical areas?
@@Ben21756Ask that to Airbus.
@@garyrea2320So what were those incidents with the landing gears and the windows? And even if AF447 was a pilot error, the aircraft’s design may have made the error more likely.
This event serves as a real wake up call to the manufacturers and suppliers. We get that you're a business looking to maximize profits, but cost cutting should never, ever be considered in quality control and product safety. Human lives are on the line.....literally.
It CAN’T BE just the bolts on the door plugs OR just the MAX 9’s….
Can we get a percentage of planes with loose bolts out of the 400 planes inspected?
Holy cow, what else will they find?
Yeah but, did Alaska charge extra for the enhanced view of the beautiful stars and shimmering city lights.
Ha, YAH!
All 737 Max variants should be grounded and never put to use
Why not? They seem to be objectively safer than other aircraft if they have had fewer incidents. An Airbus A321 aircraft recently had a window blow out, but no one in the media is reporting on this and no one is blaming Airbus for anything.
@@aycc-nbh7289 Let’s see, the competitor to the 737-Max, the A320Neo have never faced a fatal accident, the 737-Max has 300 fatalities. The A320Neo have no such incident of poor quality control, the 737-Max does and that resulted in a door blowout which could’ve caused death if they were higher up. The A320Neo have never been grounded, the 737-Max have been grounded twice.
@@Ben21756The A320 in general still has unresolved issues with its landing gears, which could fly off and cause fatalities at any moment. It is only a matter of time.
@@aycc-nbh7289 If the landing gears of the A320 was as flimsy as you say it is, then it would be flagged as a hazard and all A320s would be grounded until the issue is resolved, but that isn't the case because what you said is bs.
@@Ben21756No, they have never been grounded to my knowledge since these incidents started occurring in the early 2000’s. I don’t see how Airbus gets away with it.
I was on that plane. While I appreciate the offer for $1500, refunding my ticket and baggage check fee, the food voucher for $12 and free meal on the plane after it isn't enough. If the plane reached 30,000+ I would have died. As it is I now have PTSD and nightmares probably for the rest of my life. You'll have to do better. I've hired a lawyer.
I’m so sorry you went through that. I have a scheduled flight on February 9th and they haven’t canceled any max 9 flights for February they are actually still booking them. My flight is also leaving from PDX but non stop to Miami.. I’m thinking of canceling because they can’t tell me ahead what the plan is . Again I’m so sorry 🙏🏻
From what I hear MANY on that flight have and are planning lawsuits! I can't imagine the PTSD for many years to come 😢
Rinse Boeing for millions. It's the only language giant corporations understand under late stage capitalism.
Liar
Definately keep going.
You were 🤏🏼 this close to get involved in a fatal crash.
Even though its not Alaska’s fault, they can not get away with $1500
They can go and get the money from Boeing
This makes me wonder what other manufacturing defects Boeing has allowed to slip out their doors.
Lots!
Why fly with a company that can’t even manage to bolt a door on properly?
Airbus should release an advertisement showing how well bolted their doors are, capitalize.
They shouldn’t, since they had a window blow out on one of their planes recently.
@@aycc-nbh7289 a bit of an overstatement on your part to put it mildly. You are refering to the incident with the Titan A321? Airbus can be proud of this! No windows was blown out, the cabin stayed pressurized the whole time. Just the OUTER Layer of some windows cracked (due to an interesting reason, read the report). Maybe if this happend with a Boeing the outcome would have been slightly different. Joking aside, to be fair it makes no sense to blame any plane manufacturer for faulty components like windows or especially engines. Neither Airbus nor Being is producing them. Its like saying VW is a crappy car brand because "their" LED Lights always fail. They are manufactured / designed by other parties
@@dpmoos3225If we are placing blame on Boeing for using third-party fuselages and plug doors, I don’t see why we shouldn’t place blame on Airbus for using third-party windows.
@@aycc-nbh7289 Its the quantity which makes the poison. Do you know any other company with a similar row of serious incidents? I dont! MCAS was not the product of a third party company. It was Boeings OWN creation and design. Wasnt' it? And just to give you a recap: It was not only a faulty system it was also rolled out without any safety net, only one AOA sensor etc. I do not recall Airbus doing anything closely similiar like that. Its just pure recklessness. And no, this does not happen by coincidence. Also the improperly drilled fastener holes in the rear bulkhead discovered last year, can only be blamed on boeing. And regarding the plug doors, Spirit and Boeing are related, so its not a classic third party. Boeing has put profit before the safety of their customers and passengers, It is not easy for me to write that, because i once admired this company for their craftmanship. Boeing has for sure dedictated talented staff, but management has created a culture which punishes people who speak up.
That’s what happens when Accountants and MBA’s occupy the top management of engineering companies
Or any company
It's the first time I hear a CEO speaking honestly.
This is why you should always have your seat belt fastened when sitting in your seat.
And trust that the bolts securing the seats to the floor are all in place and not loose 😮
Boeing laid off many safety inspectors in favor of automation. The plane bodies were made by a different company, which probably left the bolts loose on the door plugs. The door plugs are place holders for doors depending on the emergency exits required on the plane. They would leave the bolts loose to allow for easy modification with the doors. It is likely though that Boeing never checked these bolts because of the lack of safety control.
What has happened to a former great American Company.
late stage capitalism
It's too expensive to build quality planes, homes, or cars. Sell for the same price, cut the production cost in half. Lay off QA, lay off engineers, pay shoddy inspectors who will come and inspect in half the time for half the money.
Because fines and lawsuits are just a cost of doing business at this point. If making all these cuts results in an decrease in costs by hundreds of millions of dollars, but I have to pay a couple hundred thousand in fines, it's a pretty good deal.
Shareholders! That’s what happened
I mean until the airlines keep loosing money cause your shotty planes are always grounded? I bet they lose the airlines the moment they cant compensate them for groundings... wouldn't making decent airplanes make more sense. You simply wont be able to skate by forever! do better Boeing!@@stetsons222
@@Starfish2145So how come Airbus isn’t getting as bad of a rap if they are also publicly traded?
I have found a bucking bar in the horizontal stabilizer of a 757 that had been sliding around for almost ten years , damaging the ribs and aft spar. And clecos still installed on the floor beams at station 680 where it attaches to the fuselage frame. If you look hard enough, you can always find something, we are all human and forget things and make mistakes.
I don't want to hear that a death was avoided solely because you had a 'guardian angel' onboard!
With only 7 spare seats on that flight, Alaska Airlines well and truly dodged a bullet of having a passenger or two sucked out of the aircraft to their doom! Yes, it could well be that an Angel was on that flight and stopping anyone from taking the opportunity for a window seat.
It also goes to show that the advice to always keep your seatbelt on is prudent!
The last time that I flew within Australia, I was asked by the counter staff if my 80+ Father and I would like to have the seats beside the Emergency Exit because I (mid 50s at the time) "looked like a fit and capable man to operate the door should (Heaven Forbid) it be required.
Well, after the Nipon Airlines crash landing earlier this month, paying attention to the Safety Briefing is definitely worth your attention.
Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
As a paying public i wouldnt step foot on a new Boeing plane.
Why not? Airbus seems to have had very similar issues over the years.
At this point, Boeing's existence is the best commercial for Air Bus.
You have to question where else you'd find loose bolts on those planes or any other recent Boeing jets. Really worrying as a passenger.
Why does nobody mention that loose bolts with castelated nuts don't just fall out. Wrong bolts? Missing castelated pin?
Right??! I sure didn't see any cotter pins in them.
I don't think anyone would blame Alaska Airlines or be worried about which airline company to use. I would be more worried about the type of aircraft than which company owns it.
It's a combo. The plane has to be safe, but you also have to trust the airline to prioritize maintenance over schedule and profit. Alaska Airlines failed that test back in the late 90s, resulting in Flight 261. Hopefully the company culture changed, but new incidents will always bring up reminders of the past.
I don’t like flying this kind of stuff gives me anxiety just to watch
The saddest part is that there has been quality control concerns raised by whistle blowers (former Boeing employees who either quit or were fired) on Max and dreamliner planes over the years but little have been done to avert potential disaster.
Criminal charges for Boeing executives and Spirit executives!
Oh no they'll probably receive bonuses
But first there needs to be an investigation.
Safety and Boeing? That’s an oxymoron…
Probably a good idea to check all the bolts, not just by the plug
Are the bolts in need of a redesign, are they working themselves loose under vibration?
Why not show the photographs of all the loose bolts they found?
So you can freak out more?
They did. Castle nuts are supposed to have cotter pins inserted into them. If there's no cotter pin, there's nothing stopping the bolts from vibrating loose.
@@lihtan as a former Air Force tech, the bolt they showed installed is incorrect. bolts go in top to bottom or front to rear. same with the nut. ps i worked on kc 135 's and B 52 's both Boeing products.
i meant the cotter pin. sorry
I think he's deferring some responsibility - that aircraft had its routes altered - in case it had to be ditched. They aren't explaining why &it seemed like it had an air leak detected that they ignored and did not follow procedure. What is the method when its delivered ? does BOEING do test flights? Or AA ? Or both ?
Agreed.
Are you trying to tell me a corporation is an amoral profit maximization machine that doesn't care about you at all?? I'm shocked!
Alaska had a recurring issue their maintenance crew could not find. An intermittent fault? Who knows? Even now the NTSB has not been able to connect the recurring warning light to the door plug.
The issue was logged and reported as required and they were continuing to monitor the possibility.
The company chose to restrict the aircrafts operations. They didn’t have to.
There was no problem found which explained the warning.
Fortunately the company had chosen to restrict the aircraft’s operations.
The door plug probably was leaking but it was not readily accessible for checking or inspection. They probably checked all the other doors.
im fairly certain boeing is responsible for the planes test flights. the bolts mightve been tight enough when it left the factory but loosened over time
ture! because inside the cabin there isnt the door@@johnmacdonald1878
Sounds like more doors getting ready to pop! That’s a massive defect! Missed in build quality!! Insane!!
What the H is Boeing doing? Do they think this is a car where you just pull over if you have a problem? Makes me wonder what else is wrong.
Can they send these MAX 9 planes back and have the materials recycled into 757's? The 757 design seems like it would accept the new larger engines more easily.
Exactly I said it 4 years ago when first max crash I noticed how max wings fixes that not good smh
This is a systematic issue at Boeing, not only affecting the MAX but the 787 Dreamliner as well.
But why weren't all these loose bolts found BEFORE a plane broke apart
props on the ceo
Door plugs are like butt plugs. All fun and games until you have a major blowout! 😬
Boeing planes are bricks. After all the Max 8 drama now "many bolts missing on grounded Max 9s" put me on an Airbus, will definitely be more conscious of the brand of plane I fly on.
You are aware that Airbus has had more, arguably worse issues in terms of quality, no? And one may not have very great control over the plane one flies on if airlines have last-minute equipment changes.
@@aycc-nbh7289 Ok. Where did you get that information from? Can you point to credible sources so we can read it ourselves? Yet another American who can't accept that a USA made product could be worse quality than similar product made elsewhere. Mass brainwashing since birth.
are they using stainless bolts and nuts and spinning them on or not using loctite or nylocks?
This is reminding me of the DC-10 and the issues it was having with cargo doors blowing off.
Imagine door plug blowing out in the middle of the ocean somewhere where you're far away from a landing zone. 😬
Drop to 10,000 feet and look reeeaaaallly closely at the fuel gages. 😮
If this had happened over the ocean, the plane would have probably been at cruising altitude and the blowout would have had more severe consequences.
@@SashazurYeah good point and scary though.
Alaska better ask for a refund at this point. 😂
If tightening those bolts fell through the cracks on "many" 737s, what other bolts didn't get tightened?
Boeing should be forced to be a private company. Their corporate greed has gone too far.
This Is absolutely absurd! The QA team should be imprisoned. The production team should be imprisoned. Everyone who failed should be imprisoned.
This right here is literally why Boeing continues to act the way they do. They got away with their negligence costing 346 lives. No jail time.
Yes they should. This is unacceptable and I will only be flying Airbus.
@@norcalandrew That truck driver got 110 years in prison for driving a truck with faulty brakes. But apparently if you're big enough like Boeing, you get to continue doing business with only a fine.
DEI is more important than quality control. Thank Democrats for that idiotic addition to corporate culture.
Boeing laid off 90 QA employees in 2021. Boeing cares about image and investors. That’s it
I hope Boeing becomes an engineering centered company again very fast, since these changes will take a decade to have an effect (development tine for new plane). Because the longer it postpones this, the longer the rough period will remain. Since Airbus needs competition and also the Chinese are coning with their Comecs. I hope Boeing understands this, otherwise in time it's commercial aviation endavours might come under serious pressure I am afraid.
If there is no change in leaderships, (Not just the CEO, the entire Board of exeutive), the culture will not change.
People often talk trash about Chinese Built plane, but with Boeing at its current state, I am not sure if they actually build better planes anymore.
Im sure people in the back were like " He'd played with the blinds too many times... you see that?"
Are these really loose bolts? I mean the castellated ones like the ones preventing the door plug from lifting out of the assembly pretty much can not be loose if the cotter pin was installed after the bolt was tightened unless there is some physical defect in the bolt itself which is very unlikely because they are over designed to prevent any chance of being loose if properly installed. Or are these finding different bolts on the plane which are not castellated to be loose? Also is this loose bolt problem limited to just the 737 Max?
The same employees that install door plugs, also work on many other parts of these aircraft. That means that every Boeing that Spirit Aero ever had anything to do with building, need to be inspected, nut and bolt, from one end to the other.
You mean every aircraft produced by Boeing has to be inspected. Boeing is the manufacturer and they are responsible for quality.
Boeing cares more about the accuracy of its weapons than the safety of its passenger planes. Can't blame them though, that's where the real money is at.
There is a big difference in this case between "loose" and free. These nuts are not torqued as they are not there to hold tight but to prevent the door from lifting off the brackets that hold them tight. The nuts should be "slightly" loose but prevented from turning by a cotter pin. Now if the nut or cotter pin was missing then there is a problem.
Cotter pin cant take the force. they need 1 inch bolts for that.
@@chucksurgeonertribute2113 There is NO force on the cotter pin except for rotational.
Does anyone know if they going to check the bolts on more planes other than just the Max’s?
Ever since the initial issues with Max, I always check what aircraft is being used before I buy a ticket and make sure I never buy a ticket on any Boeing airplane. I would rather go through long layovers than book a seat on a Boeing.
But what if your employer is unwilling to pay for longer layovers like this, especially if such long of a layover requires a visa in the country you have a layover in? Also, airlines may have last-minute changes of equipment that you have no control over and Airbus planes are arguably worse if they have more defects, such as landing gears failing or windows blowing out.
@@aycc-nbh7289 Fortunately I don't travel for work so that's a moot point for me. And I can always chose not to board a plane. I'm not saying the other companies are without flaw, but the Max variations have had issues ever since they came off the production line, so I completely lost faith in Boeing.
It's kinda sad how we as Americans take pride in the things we make here in the States, but see these kinds of things. Can't remember the last bad headline about Airbus.
As in that one where the Ural Airlines flight had a bad landing gear or the A321 had a bad window? They do exist even if they don’t make the front page.
That's story about maintenance and not production. Don't mixed it...
And if that wasn’t done, what else wasn’t done? What other parts are missing?
That's a CEO. That's leadership. Well done. That's how you handle this.
More and more I am thinking the cutting costs isn`t working anymore. I think it’s time we regulate costs of air fare again so we can see an increase in safety and standards😊
At least with my own airplane I am responsible for my safety..mostly
No;
the cost of the aeroplane had built-in quality control costs...
all paid for by the airline buying the plane.
Has nothing to do with passenger fares.