Caller Claims Faith Transformed a Nazi: We Push Back Hard | Forrest Valkai & Aron Ra
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2024
- Original Show: • The Evolution Revoluti...
Christian caller Keith starts with a simple question about human infant development, claiming it doesn't comport with evolution. Keith argues his faith doesn't prevent critical thinking, while Forrest and Aron maintain that faith is an inherently dishonest and unreliable pathway to knowledge. They delve into a provocative example involving a Nazi guard's transformation through Christianity, with the hosts countering by highlighting the religion's historical links to Nazism, slavery, and other atrocities. As accusations and denials fly, the call reaches a boiling point, showcasing the deep divisions and passions at the heart of the faith debate.
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Another guy that begs to be heard but refuses to listen
don't they all ?
Annoying as fuck. Shows his ignorance every time he talks
Yes yes is very special Guy,...god is talking to him...😅😅
Keith Ham 🤷♂️
Great comment
"Religion made a Nazi torturer a better person!" That's a pretty low bar for improvement.
He even mentioned after the war, as if it makes a lick of difference 😂
Man could as well have named Jeffrey Dahmer, instead.
Yet isn't fighting against the nazis around today, funny how selective god is
"Nothing else could do that!"
I agree completely. I always ignore all encouragement and discouragement except Jesus. That's why gravity and walls don't stop me, Jesus is the only way.
It's amazing to me that religion requires people to ignore and deny the obvious and people can still say it's fine, it's harmless, totally not abusive to condition your or anyone else's brain to constantly do that.
"Then what stops you from killing a guy and raping his wife and kids?"
The facts that they didn't ask me to and I have a hard time seeing how it would make them happy because those things have never made anyone happy, and even if they convinced me that it would help those people, other people could find out what I did and I still need to buy bread and not be shit on or find glass in my bread, and I don't even want to have to worry about any of those things. Those things belong in a horror movie, and then I'll think about it, and laugh at how bizarre and obvious a mistake it is to think that living in a society and being an empathic creature wouldn't stop people from doing bad things to each other.
I have thought about the stress and paranoia I'd get if I stole something, so I prefer not to.
"That's a commandment. God said not to steal."
**steals the door of a church**
And now you're more welcoming to people, like it should be. What is god gonna do about it? Does he have a receipt to show it was his door?
It's just downright disgusting
weird since the church sided with the Nazis
You know you're annoying and rude when Forrest even loses patience with you and opts to use the mute button on your ass.
The fabled Forrest Muting :p
I've heard stories from the village elders that the beneficent and patient Forrest had muted particularly egregious diviners in the distant past, but I never thought I'd witness such an event in my lifetime.
@@freakishuproar1168 😂
👆🏾
@@freakishuproar1168 Will miracles never cease? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I sure wish Forrest could finish talking without being interrupted the entire call.
They just can't. Any religion, same thing. They know deep down it's nonsense.
That is the problem with all conversations via the web. Especially if there are more than 2 people involved, each in different places. People simply don't know when to interject and speak up and when to be quiet.
There is also a problem with multi-layered questions. People hear the first part and wish to respond, even though the questioner hasn't finished their full question yet.
Usually it's the other way around with Forrest.
@@kristopherloviska9042 Nobody was talking about that and you know it. There's a difference between time delays etc and downright rude
@@kristopherloviska9042 Also that's not true because I've been in many rooms where it's just idiots shouting over each other and not letting anyone speak. It's what you do when you can't prove your point and you just wanna call someone a idiot for not believing your hodge-podge book.
Keith is why I still don’t mind Matt yelling at people.
But Matt wasn't on this.
@@ZER0--No shit...but he has to deal with the same kind of people on his calls, which is why it makes sense he loses his cool sometimes when having to deal with this level of dumb.
@@mina6mina I know but you even pointed out that he knows he's gunna get idiots etc on the show so I don't know why he gets so worked up. I do, I would get worked up if it was in a general situation but he knows whats coming. Anyway, I nevermind, It's all good...
@@ZER0-- Is there a comment missing? Because the other person never pointed out that,"Matt knows he's gonna get idiots." All they said was that he has to deal with idiots, so it makes sense that he gets frustrated with them. Nowhere did it say he knows it's gonna happen. Just that it happens...
@@ZER0-- he gets worked up because of the antagonistic word use, because of having his words misrepresented multiple times in spite of correcting them. He doesn't just blow out of nowhere, he gets pushed to it.
This guy is the definition of aggressive ignorance
The only thing worse is when they celebrate their ignorance.
@@kevinkoch-jj1uj Which he did. He was proud to not be able to understand god or basic physics and believe in comfy fairy tales because of it. Celebrating that you will be very comfy if you're ignorant enough to believe in nonsense and contradictions like a loving god that gives children cancer and has people blame people's free will for earthquakes, that hit more theists than atheists by the way.
All religions set this harmful example constantly and intrinsically. So when you said that I guess you meant that it's worse when people say it out loud, because they're always doing it with every word they say about their religion, which makes it abusive, always. All religions are always abusive in many manipulative ways.
aggressive ignorance = religion.
If it's a "religion of peace" like Buddhism it only changes to passive-aggressive.
“I don’t have to justify anything”
"Evolving to be 'thicc' as hell." Is an amazing phrase!
I feel very evolved now!😅
Only good part of this convo
@@ttthecat lemme get yo number😈
I like a well shaped woman but too much is too much. Kim Kardashian and Cardi B are not attractive. I know that’s subjective.
Is this a biological reason why alot of guys like girls with phat asses. Because subconsciously they be thinking "big booty= my big baby will live"
Leave religion, become an adult
Such a simple comment, yet so profoundly perfect.
A Kristian Ex Friend sounds like
a gibbering a hole!
I love that phrasing.
A-fucking-men
Yakkity: (great song)
For those of you concerned with logic, this is ad hominem, a fallacy.
For those of you who don't want all theists to turn off their hearing because of such ad hominem attacks, such comments aren't a good way to do that.
Not that anybody cares. This is a comments section for god's sake.
Faith, when it's correct, is like getting the answer right on a math test by guessing, and not showing your work.
When faith is correct, is because we found the right answer by other reliable method. Even a broken clock can be right twice.
Yes, faith, if it's eventually shown to be correct, was just a lucky guess.
I was thinking the opposite. Faith is like guessing at some answer on a test, getting it wrong, and refusing to accept the correct answer, even after an explanation of why that's the answer has been provided to you, which you deliberately ignore, and then you keep arguing that your wrong answer is the correct answer. That's what religious faith is like.
faith is belief without evidence. that is it
@@steveg1961 I think it can be both.
The gradual, growing frustration and hostility within Keith throughout the call is very telling. He gets really threatened when his beliefs are challenged.
He really thought he would call in and WOW everyone with his proof of God…….
"Why're you all gettin' heated and mad, HAHAHAHAH!?!" -- guy that wont stop ******ing interrupting
Or, to put it another way, he's a theist ;-)
He seemed unhinged at times.
It hurts having your entire paradigm smashed.
It’s the psychological need to be the victim and to feel ostracized when half the country wants to replace the constitution with your Bible. It messed his mind up.
The fact that Hitler and Nazis were Christians needs to be more widely known.
Can you explain it to me a bit more? Google won't tell me lol. All I can find is it wasn't confirmed and he preferred paganism. But its very vague
@@pigeon_manpp In 1933, about 93% of the germans were christians, 6% other confessions.
Would christian religion have had a significant, determined opinion against Nationalism, the Nazis would have had no chance.
But the churches arranged themselves easily with the Nazis. Even internationally, the catholic church helped many Nazis to escape to e.g. South America.
What you have a millenial tradition is that in Europe christian outright imported jews, because christians were by faith forbidden to be able to charge interests when giving out a loan (and only risk without profit does not make you willing to give away your money) - and jews did not have such a rule.
The money the christians wanted, pay it back - not so much.
So in regular intervals, it was "found out" that the jews did horrible things like sacrificing babies - and in the general outrage of the inscened progrome not only the supposed murderers were disappearing, also your debt vanished.
On the church in Wittenberg, that the reformator Martin Luther was visiting, halfway up the tower is still a "Judensau", a sculpture of a pig with "jews" suckling on its tits and one lifting its tail to look into its(her) butt.
I find it important that something like that remains, you have to know and accept your history. Denying it, pushing it out of your perception has the risk that you forget the mechanisms and fall for them again. And these mechanism are vicious, they can present themselves as surprisingly appealing.
What I find discouraging that even today, people that obviously are nice people and see their religion as their basis to being a good person, do more or less nothing, do not determinedly go against those that ABuse their God, for selfish purposes, to enrich themselves, to manipulate and control people, to declare themselves as superior, as OWNing The Truth, as excuse to get rid of competition, up to the point of deliberate murder "for the Glory of the Lord".
When an ideology that postulates for itself to be the pinnacle, the embodiment of virtue and morality is so totally incapable to maintain this role - then societywise it is useless, resp. only serves to soothe the emotions of the individual christians, and an organisation to allow them that - and (ab)use it to their own advantage.
Of course the big churches, but also look at the 750x millionaire Kenneth Copeland, 3 private jets and an own private airfield for his jets.
The unregulated, self-declared US religious industry makes 150 tax-free billions per year.
Give me persuasive arguments where religion has done virtuous things that decent, responsible people could not have done without a belief in God. I am open for everything.
Catholics.. (just to specify)
@pigeon_manpp one of the ways you can look up is "hitler & pope" (just one of the narrow method to search)
@@pigeon_manpp I mean the first treaty Hitler made was with the Catholic church and his damn BIRTHDAY was celebrated as a holiday. Both the Nazis and the Catholic church hated the jews, and only when Hitler was being rebellious in his way of committing mas genocide against the jews did the Catholic church suddenly be like "We don't know this Austrian man with a funny moustache, but he seems PRETTY BAD, haha..." At least that's from what I remember
If Forrest gets angry, you've effed up. He's very patient.
Yeah, I once heard him reply something to the effect of "Yeah, that really fuckin' sucks" regarding what a caller had said about another person and my take was that to get Forrest to respond like that you have to be pretty douchey
Oh, the one exception is when he took a call with _"Fuck you, David!"_ as a joke and it still came across as heartwarming because Forrest is Forrest
@BaronVonQuiply I remember that call with David, lol.
The angriest I've seen forrret was when a woman said that Christians should start another crusade.
@@JohnmhatheistWoah, do you remember which ep that was?
@@Rinsg0ne Diana-KS Atheists can not judge good and bad 26.41
This is another fabulous case of someone acting like they are listening, but really are just waiting for their turn to talk.
The delay in the phone system just adds more chaos to the dishonest engagement.
Agreed. How about they adopt a method similar to use with walkie talkies. When finished, say "over" to let the person know that you are done with your particular point and they can begin the rebuttal.
@@kristopherloviska9042 imagine talking for 10 minutes then saying "over" lol
No. He wasn't waiting for his turn to talk. He didn't wait at all.
Keith, you have no argument which is why you laugh when the hosts are trying to explain your questions. You’re not willing to listen, period.
Ya he had them for awile until forest hit the mute button.
Shouldn't the Nazi prison guard have been arrested and tried for war crimes?
No need to fret! A made-up sky monster exonerated him of all his misdeeds :3
It was the end of the war he said, of course he turned to religion to get out of being shot ffs, these religious ppl are beyond stupid 😅
Depends upon where he was a guard. Those guarding regular prisons and prisoner of war camps would not be guilty of war crimes. Only those who committed abuses or worked in a concentration camp would be guilty of war crimes.
@@johnburn8031But this one *was* guilty of abuses...
May not have been grassed up I guess.
Or maybe the story wasn't true...
@@nicolab2075 Indeed, I commented before they got to his story. I was referring to guards in general.
As for the guard in the story, I suspect it was completely made up.
This guy belongs in a movie theatre with all the projecting he's doing
😂
😂
Maybe he is a projectionist in a small town old school theater? the jealous part is for worshiping very Jealous Masters in pictures got the best of him.🙄
IMAX just announced they're closing operations, because they'll never be able to match the enormity of Keith's projection.
Imax ? No wonder the population dropped in 45 minutes' but traffic being so high a new one rushed in. @@jamesoblivion
I think Keith was having a hard time hearing not only because he didn't want to listen, but also the acoustics and the cell reception in his colon must be very poor.
😂😂😂
That's good. Hope you don't mind but I'm going to plagiarize it ;-)
@@IanM-id8or hehe By all means, please. Unfortunately youtube has forced me to become somewhat versant in veiled vulgarity.
@@xmillion1704teach me, sensei!
My comments keep getting deleted
so I try to confuse the bots with
sarcasm but it doesn't always work.
Lol. Nice
When people start talking about god they get real dumb real quickly.
You shouldn't be mentioning god then...oh fuck, me too 😬
Oh, my God, I can’t believe you both walked into that.
@leithcrowther6086 and it looks like you've joined the hike when you started your post with"Oh my god"
@@Bridgeburner4477this maxim stands when quoting another's use of the word "god".
@@aaronmatzkin7966 calling bullshit on that. You already put on the dunce cap now just sit down with the rest of us.
Aaron perfectly described the caller's laugh as a physiological hint they are admitting their own guilt. Well said.
By the way, it's Aron not Aaron.
Another great example of “you should accept my assertions without criticism”
And without evidence or proof
You should give me a like or I'll become instant theist.
"If we just start by assuming I'm correct..." school of religious apologetics. It's lazy and boring.
@@trafficjon400okay damn, you don't have to ask me twice. There's your like, now don't go loopy on us!😆
O.K. You were advised?@@Kawamura2 🌩
Yo, Aron and Forrest together bring a crazy amount of knowledge on biology and bioanthropology. Their tag team at the beginning was a delight.
Listen to him lie about science AND religion just so he can win.
Dude that's what my mom did when we talked about me being agender. I gave her proof and evidence and showed her how immoral the bible actually is and once I argued that God didn't consider me enough of a problem to change me, she said God can make mistakes. And I know that she bit her tongue saying that, not because I was technically called a mistake but because she doesn't think that God could do any wrong. She only said that so she could win an argument, disappointing.
@@anonymoussighted5438
I think you meant "immoral."
Problem is Christians have a very Jealous God! I think Keith is very Jealous because he has to believe! but, Forest and Aron Don't. Maybe some therapy might be the trick to help his Jealousy. Jealousy is some serious shit ya know.😏😚
And he still lost.
@@YY4Me133 Yes, my apologies. It's been fixed.
The moment I heard him laughing I just knew this man was not listening at all. He is so blockheaded, he never listens to a thing the others say while they are responding to him, and he just loves hearing his own voice.
Yeah that always is a sign of cognitive dissonance. So sad people are indoctrinated in religion
That and the comically loud exasperated sighs when confronted with overwhelming evidence that he was full of shit.
the laughing started seemingly about 2 month's ago? I knew something corky was up with apologist new twist in their agenda. lol
The persecution complex that all religious people have is so infuriating and annoying.
It's their fallback position when their arguments fail
Aron Ra and Forrest Valkai are two of my favorite hosts.
@@GodcodeX77 How do you know what Lucifer looks like?
@@GodcodeX77spaghetti looks like the FSM, so I guess that’s true too
@@GodcodeX77 okay, have a nice day.
@@GodcodeX77Dude. You’re trying way too hard, and you’re not funny. Just quit while you’re behind.
During this call, they did not work very well together.
When the caller starts laughing and yelling, you know that they know that they don't know how to argue. It is a defense mechanism.
Greetings from Germany.
Keith, what Forrest and Aaroon said about the Nazis is true. Please go and learn some history.
Christian says: lean not to my understanding
christanity aligns with evil historically.
I don't feel so badly about some of the dumb, embarrassing things I've done in life. Thanks, Keith.
This is why people like this show 😊
Ya' but what would Matt Dilahunty have done short circuit🔌or maybe stand up for a walk or the inevitable brain storm!!! giving the guy a brain strain he thought never existed. lol @@Apostolnixx 🤔😅😅🤣🤣
This episode made me realize why Matt is so good in this. He would have never let this Keith guy continue so long talking and saying nothing
That is very true. Love these guys to bits but Matt is the grand master on this particular platform.
Hear how the caller squeals and cries every time the hosts make a good point 🤣🤣🤣
And immediately talks over the host making the point.
Regarding the baby question: ever seen a newborn kitten or puppy, Keith? How about newly-hatched Blue Jays or Robins? There's rafts 'n' rafts of species that sprog out helpless infants. Nothing special in it.
Yip. Some animals tend to be on the move a lot. So selection pressure favours newborns that can get on their feet quickly.
Animals that have a relatively secure shelter, or can carry their young when necessary, don’t have the same selection pressure.
So traits evolve in accordance with more relevant selection pressures.
Kangaroo. Now that is a helpless newborn and they stay that way for a long time, almost a year.
I saw a vid of a baby newborn hedgehog recently. It was gross looking but cute at the same time. It was super tiny. Like the size of a penny. He could sit on a penny
- Some lesser apes are bipedal...
- _(hmm... doesn't sound good for my argument... quick... think...)_ Yeah but what about when they run?
🙄
Don’t tell theists, they’ll think it’s a sexual thing and try to ban them.
Matt Dilahunty took the call would have gone Quadra . 😁😆
The worst part about that argument is that even if they use their hands to run faster, that doesn't make them suddenly not bipedal.
Watch children when they go up stairs. When they use their hands to basically crawl, they move much faster than they walk. That doesn't mean they aren't bipedal. It simply means it's a faster way of moving.
As an adult human it becomes more difficult to bend that far over, so it's less efficient than just walking up (getting old sucks).
"people change, therefore god! People cant become better without god"
Absolutely vile
Plus, there's also...
The Book of Mormon changes people, therefore...?
The Bhagavad Gita changes people, therefore...?
The Qur'an changes people, therefore...?
And so on.
The Christians who use this kind of argument literally don't actually buy their own argument - yet they're blind to the incoherence.
I changed and became a better person because of Spider-Man Lowkey and uncle Iroh so if they exist in the spirit world…
I wonder how deeply devout Christians think about ATLA and LoK with the spirit world existing. Do they find it funny yet refuse to acknowledge that their beliefs aren't any less silly?
@@l.n.3372 intriguing question, alls I got is tea and that with great power comes great responsibility
@@darthtyranous4514 "did you learn the ways of tea and failure?"
I’ve never seen Forrest so pissed before. I’m sorry I missed this show
This guy was kind of menacing, trying to bully them but they wouldn't have it. Can you imagine working with a guy like this?
@@joecheffo5942yeah, Keith has some real sociopathic tendencies. He knows how to seem friendly and agreeable while clearly not actually being friendly or agreeable and actually being manipulative and dishonest. I imagine it works quite well with less intellectual people but not Aron and Forrest.
I hope his boss sees this and gives him a big raise. He must be great for morale at work.
I believe the hosts are strictly volunteers. No money. But the awareness and attention helps to promote their own shows. Some of those new followers will contribute to their Patreon accounts. So it does help, but I think they do it because they love it.
they doo Actually it's been mentioned a few times. helping theist know there is a possibility of becoming skeptical thinkers with out being thrown in a lake of fire.@@AGodlessLife
During the Second World War, the vast majority of the population in Europe and certainly in Germany were Catholic or Protestant Christians.
From Belgium.
The St Bartholomews day massacre in France. Who's side was god on- catholic or protestant?
@@user-Terry314 As a child I heard this story from a teacher about 55 years ago.
An English soldier in the trenches, praying that morning to survive the day. On the other side, a German soldier prays to the same god to survive that day. But one of the two was able to tell his story to his children. The other did not survive that day.
This story was an important one for me to start not believe in a god. Certainly not the one suggested to me.
@@MrCanis4 much more likely, they *_both_* couldn't get to tell anything to their kids back home...
@@user-Terry314Neither, as he doesn't exist. But i almost wish he did exist so we could see a supposedly all loving, all knowing god play favorites. Or grant two opposing prayers and watch mayhem ensue.
Aron Ra and Forrest are a dangerous mix 😂
I'd love to see a show with Forrest, Aron, and Gutsick Gibbon. I could watch them talk about science for hours.
Which is why I hate it when Jimmy is on with them because he won't let them get into the science and always tries to steal their thunder, and if you call him out on it, then he starts to curse at you.
@Elsimioborracho man, that would be awesome
@@Johnmhatheistthat’s because Jimmy is an asshole. Have you seen what he did last year to other fellow you tubers? Then he doubled down when he was exposed. This is about the time he created the Line and Matt was leaving TAE.
@@Johnmhatheisthe talks fooorrreeevvver about the most boring stuff too. the other day i had to skip past 20m of jimmy just to hear forest talk about something interesting.
@@Cara.314 I could listen to Forrest talk for hours.
But I won't criticize what you said. You're human and enjoy different things. I know there are things you enjoy that I would consider boring, and that's what makes us human.
I know there are things I enjoy too that would bore you.
I have no problem with what you said.
Caller: "this one guy was evil and turned christian so he became good because crhistianity"
Forrest & Aron: "ye but there are this huge bunch of other people who were evil while following their religion and stayed evil with religion"
Caller: "yes but these don't matter because people do people. Also you said all christians ever existed are as evil than the nazis" (spoiler: they didn't)
How can you talk with someone whose sense of logic is this screwed? It's like teaching how to swim to a fish without fins.
It's amazing how stupid these people sound when they argue that faith is a good pathway to truth.
Man I love Forrest. An absolutely brilliant mind
This guy checked out of the conversation and went straight to a churlish defensive mode less than halfway through the call. Surprised Aron and Forrest even kept him on.
They make sacrifices for the memes😂
I could easily visualize his face scrunching up as the call progressed. 😂 His statement towards the end, when he said that Forrest and Aran were getting heated was pure projection.
I think I've gotten spoiled because now I can't stand when guests talk over the hosts. I can't fuckin' stand it
Need Matt treatment for such guests? 😂😂
@@diaryofnricom163Matt was awful about letting people talk over him. Matt would say “No, sir” about 8 or 9 times before finally muting the person. He wasted so much time telling people to “STFU,” instead of just muting them immediately like he should have. He still does it on The Line too.
@@boblangford5514muting them doesnt teach them anything. I think the combination of both like hes doint is not only the most benificial, but also the most fun.
@@Magnusfication It’s fun to try to listen to 3 people talking over each other?
@@boblangford5514It's fun to listen to people like this Keith meeting more powerful opposition, who are willing to forcefully take control of the call in order to prevent a throbbing hemorrhoid like Keith from walking over everybody and acting like some high-and-mighty douche the entire call. Keith should have been muted at LEAST 5 separate times during this call.
This guy was thoroughly dismantled. Unfortunately he’s too ignorant to comprehend it.
You can't bring up 4 billion people that changed their lives for the good because the choose Christianity, Keith. At least 3.9999 billion of those were just born into it without any choice whatsoever.
Also, how do we know how many of them went on the be better? That's such an absurd claim. But what else would we expect from someone who believes faith is a good pathway to truth? He has faith that 4billion people changed for the better, not evidence. It's also absurd considering how many people did terrible things in the name of their god.
so nice of keith to basically admit he doesn't have the faculties to have a serious conversation about science.
Tortured for Christ has nothing to do with Nazis. It was written by a Romanian pastor and told of his experiences in prison under the Communist regime. He spent 14 years in such prison.
So basically, this guy presented an argument that was factually wrong from the get go.
Who woulda thunk...besides...he had faith that the story was true....and everyone began clapping slowly😂
Keith: You sniggering is not the flex you think it is
From this show, I've noticed a pretty consistent pattern: Most of the time, if a Christian is like "Hey, real quick lemme tell you about this AWESOME story...", I'm about to hear some amazingly lame and/or horrible shit, but they're going to present it to me like it's the coolest thing ever...
32:03
No, but like, when he said he met a god in person, it was very convincing 😂
Also that callers get louder and talk over more in an inverse proportion to their ability to defence their position. That's why these usually start off cordially and end in screaming.
Also, it'll be something you've heard a million times before, and they'll act as if they are the first one who ever said it
@@capthavic MR FARINA!!!
(That came out very clearly in the Dave Farina v James Tour debate, James got louder and more aggressive as it went on. It's one thing for an anonymous caller to aggressively talk over the host, another for a PhD lecturer toward a guest at his own university)
Keith why are believers so angry when challenged?
The Nazis certainly got the basic idea of being a master race chosen by God from the Bible... they simply saw themselves as a chosen people... and pure faith was the justification..😖
You guys, you guys, you guys...chuckle, chuckle, chuckle.
He has a pathologically controlling personality and needs to be in charge.
He's threatened by your competence.
He wants to make you look bad, so as to advance his own position.
He thinks you're making him look bad in front of others.
He thinks he is genuinely helping you by giving you the benefit of his wisdom or experience.
He's frustrated with you because he feels you aren't hearing him.
Weaponized mediocrity.
Ego. Entitlement.
His indignation, arrogance and (revealing) resorting to abusive tactics reveals him.
He thinks he's OWED "respect" for "being a good guy", without genuinely EARNING it.
He hasn't reasoned through morality, he just joined a CLUB.
Also, as the Granddaughter of a LEGIT POW who was tortured by the WW2 "bad guys", they were ALREADY CHRISTIAN. The "bad guys" were endorsed by the Pope.
My Grandfather asked his captors how they could do this to OTHER CHRISTIANS, they answered the moment a Christian did ANYTHING supportive or neutral to defend any Jewish person, they were converted to evil too.
"Where's all the H_tl_rs at?"
My, how privileged & selfish.
"Wow there's a lot of evil [Christians] in the world!"
Yes, yes there are.
Signing off by pretending that reason got "emotional" is a clear abusive tactic.
HE was the one yelling and getting indignant.
"Oh yeah?!?! If Hitler was inspired by Christianity, where are the billion other Hitlers?"
Lmao, what? 😂
He never did understand what believe means. Almost crying like a child
"Faith is auto-deceptive." I so wish people grasped this concept!
"You guys talk a lot"-Guy that's interrupting
Wow.. That's a whole different level of stupidity..
Forrest saying "rewind the tape" made me 😂 because he's at least old enough to know what that used to mean.
I'm old enough to know what that means.
you know it's not exclusively old people who know what this means, right? why is it that any time anyone uses a phrase or saying based on some obsolete technology, there's always some 50+ year old person in the comments who thinks they're special because they understand it and just assumes that young people simply can't grasp such archaic knowledge?
📼
@@Stickarms99 Let people enjoy things.
Im old enough to understand what that means, but not old enough to ever have done it myself.
This bloke has a very condescending laugh! When he has no answer he laughs.
Agreed. It's a laugh born of desperately repressed panic, and the one solitary iota of self-awareness Keith still somehow possesses trying to tell him that something has gone horribly wrong with the conversation.
Matt Dilahunty would have short circuited🔌lol or got up and walked or gave a big piece of his mind.
Aron and Forrest are the tag team that I didn't know I needed to exist. Two legends that I admire greatly.
Yes!!
Many times in an “atheist came to jayzus,” story, they actually mean a catholic became a protestant, or similar lateral move.
I don't know where he's getting the "Tortured for Christ" bit - that story "chronicles how the couple led an underground ministry for those persecuted by the Nazis and Communists in their homeland of Romania during and after World War II," and the only mention of conversion from atheism is of the author's wife. They weren't even in concentration camps at all, despite apparently being arrested in Germany several times during the war and despite both being Jewish.
Also I found that Christians are very critical of the organization the couple founded, because it allegedly used funds from donations to build a lavish $28mil HQ and allegedly covered up a child abuse case (including kicking out the son of the founding couple with an offer of hush money). So potentially add Keith's own example to the list of Christian organizations that promote suffering in the name of Yahweh?
You can believe in unicorns, but you can't think unicorns exists on the basis of observations or deduction.
But if a unicorn show up, you can update your scientific understanding.
Religion is fundamentally different from science, and a beliefsystem is not a requirement for navigating the world.
They always get that wrong. You can have a jar of jelly beans. You can believe the jar has an even number, you can believe the jar has an odd number, or you can believe neither. If you choose to believe one or the other without any evidence, your belief is completely unfounded. But until you count it you have no idea if your belief was correct, and even if it was correct, that doesn't mean whatever random belief you want to hold next is going to be true.
Ya just empty space some place all around the inside and out of the thinking skull fundamentally. what can I learn today ? oh pray I forgot but my skull still feels so empty for some unknown scientific reason.
They always go straight for the equivocation fallacies when it comes to belief and faith. "Believing" in a deity is not the same as "believing" we've got milk at home or "believing" the Earth orbits the sun, the word is used in different ways.
@@KreeZafi That's why I always love Aron Ra saying "make believe" when referring to belief without evidence or against all evidence.
Keith was delightful until he thought he was being attacked.
The moment he laughs he was done being cooperative
I think the biggest misconception is the idea that certain traits are evolutionarily advantageous in all environments/circumstances…
Yess
If it was to be the case, we'd end with much, much less biodiversity. And less need of controlled environments for maximal results when playing with biology.
Or just generally that evolution should produce perfect results. I hear so many creationists be like "if evolution is true then how come [insert problematic biological thing]?" and it's bizarre because with evolution we would EXPECT imperfections, whereas with intelligent design imperfections are really a problem. In evolution "good enough" works, there can be plenty of flaws but organisms are constantly changing and adapting to their environment and if they can survive and reproduce then that's kinda enough even if it's not ideal. Just look at how humans are still relatively poorly adapted for bipedalism in such a way that many of us start getting back pain as early as our thirties - makes sense with evolution, but not with intelligent design.
Now I see why Matt yells at the guys who talk over him so much, You guys have so much more patience. I always thought Matt should have more patience. But I wanted to throw chairs across the room on that call, ha. Good video!
Oh sweet!! Aron and Forrest on the same show. This pleases me greatly. 😊
Coincidentally, an awful lot of people suddenly renounced Nazism in 1945.
Keith is blatantly dishonest because he isn't even trying to listen.
And subconciously he has to know he waaaay out of his league...right?...right??...(internet dial tone)
TW: SA
Just in my family I have an example how the "nice" parts about Christianity aren't so nice. Simply enough, my grandma has forgiven the man who SAd her. Because her version of Christianity hyper focuses on the forgiveness part. It's gotten so bad, that everyone else not forgiving him is causing rifts. Cordiality can be fine, but there are times when you just have to cut someone off of your life.
edit: added TW. Also, how does this man be like "where are the bad christians if Christianity is so awful". My man, have you opened the television, have you heard of Tucker Carlson? Have you looked around in an average conservative meeting and heard their endless hateful ravings? Being a Christian doesn't inherently mean you're a bad person, but it does mean that you're wilfully lying to yourself and when you already do that, more lies are easier to digest.
What do the abbreviations “TW” and “SA” mean? It drives me crazy when commenters use abbreviations, like everyone who could possibly read it knows what you mean.
@@boblangford5514
TW = Trigger Warning
SA = Sexual Abuse
"Trigger Warning: Sexual Abuse"
@@boblangford5514 It's probably more so because of youtube's cable network-level of censorship, to prevent the comment from getting deleted; I dunno about TW but SA? They're referencing their grandmother, who forgave a man for (insert action here); as another hint, it ends with assault.
@@mekannatarry1929 Thanks. And thanks @dingusrat
@@mekannatarry1929TW means “trigger warning” which means the subject matter they’re gonna talk about might be painful for some to hear about it. It’s similar to a PG-13 or rated M+.
I see your selection pressure, and I raise you Medicine! Ha! Take that evolution! Now excuse me while I propagate our giant head physiology.
Dude, laughing at others in an argument and then saying something arrogant doesn't make you look good xD
Much worse then getting loud imo. It sounds pretty codescending.
(the caller, not the hosts!)
Keith's reaction after 36:19 when Forrest mentions slavery and the KKK is just mystifying.
He's literally over here telling us Christianity is good because of this one Nazi and "4 billion" others he can line up. What about the other 6 million Nazis? Hitler wasn't the only bad guy who was Christian; why does one dude from a book count when the rest of the party doesn't?!
He thinks Aron and Forrest think Christianity is bad because of Hitler, even after Forrest listed specifically Christian hate groups which existed prior to Nazism. And they didn't even list things like the Crusades, which typically also come up.
He sounds like he was homeschooled in the Midwest
Nah.. grew up in rural FL
Hey now, I was homeschooled in the Midwest. But I was overstuffed with science, math and history instead of force feed religion by my mom. Dad tried to force religion on me, but the science caused it to fail.
@@ladyfreedomrocks I just know a lot of people like that
37:57 Stalin was raised religiously, he studied at the Ecclesiastical University in Tbilisi and was supposed to become a priest.....😖
Yeah but thing is he later decided to no longer become religious and became a full blown atheist. In my mind it’s not because he was smarter or found a reason, but really just believed himself to be a god in his own right. So an agnostic, it’s a complicated and eerily fascinating story with many perspectives from the death of his first wife made him atheist, to he never became an atheist.
I went through a rabbit hole and will continue to add more onto this once I complete the homework I’m procrastinating on…
I love listening to Forrest and Aron, they are so polite and pleasant.
Agreed, when you make a good point, and your opponent starts laughing, you know you're correct and that means their ego won't let them see the truth
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."
Keith, the only real assumption that most of us have is that we exist and can learn about the world we find ourselves in.
That's it.
First sentence you could tell this was going to be a weird one lol
Wow!!
He talks about how the hosts have "shielded themselves against any/ all criticism," when he is- *with that very same breath-* doing the exact thing that he's accusing others of doing! It's like projection, but it's such an extreme case of it!!
Keith should look up the Dunning-Kruger effect, but I highly doubt he'll even understand how it applies to him.
Many other animals are helpless at birth. Has he never seen a birds nest with baby birds who's eyes haven't even opened yet screaming for parents to bring it food?
Kittens are also born blind and helpless. And rabbits are born without fur, on top of being blind.
* whose
Yes, but how many are helpless for 6 weeks after birth like humans?
The difference is that birds can fly within 2 months of hatching. Baby humans can't walk for over a year after birth. Kittens and puppies are born blind and deaf, but again, within 2 months, they're running all over the place.
@@hiitsnate We take longer to develop. But that doesn't really matter because in general parents take close care of their offspring during that time.
Love Forrest and Aron pairing up to talk biology and religion.
I have this perennial anxiety that I'm getting too unhinged and weird due to partisanship. I find myself asking myself; _"Am I fretting too much about the sorry state of UK politics? Am I getting doom-pilled about the Tories winning again? Are the Labour party really as pitiful an excuse of a left-wing party as I think they are?"_ etc. Then I hear a guy talk about how Christianity magically cured *AN ACTUAL NAZI* of their crimes, and I don't feel quite as bad about my ability to engage with politics.
Incredible that this call was initially about Keith asking Forrest and Aron why babies are small.
Please find the mute button. Keith cannot stop talking because if he does he might hear something.
You dont want to 'dominate' the show....i recognize that as you are backed into a corner and cannot handle whats coming at you....
This is why we need to keep science in schools. Don't do religion, kids.
Who would have guessed that a man who did HORRIBLE DISGUSTING things in the name of an evil regime decided to "redeem" himself and try to show that he is a different and better person AFTER HIS SIDE LOST. Wow, it must be faith making him better 🙄
I'd love to have Forrest and Prof. Dave do an episode
If that happens, I'll call in and shout _"Mis Ter Fa RINA!"_
That was my kidney in the Attic Short, so me and Forrest have already worked together.
I'm surprised they haven't.
I love Dave but he has an even shorter fuse than Matt 😂
@@alamunez For real, I, a random youtube commenter, have gotten to "debate" Dave because he seems to reply to every comment that even slightly disagrees with him. Man will just jump at any opportunity for intellectual confrontation.
I hope this analogy is useful to someone when talking about things science doesn’t know about something like evolution:
It’s like we know how a closet is constructed but we’re not sure what kind of screws were used. The screws are fine detail even though there’s a reason why some specific screws are the way to go. Not knowing about what screws were used doesn’t make the closet go away.
Great presentation guys, oh and Mr. Ra I just recently received my TST card, thanks for the inspiration. Love ya’ll!
I could watch you everyday guys. So awesome!!!
Keith IS cognitive dissonance
Condescending chuckel at the end was sick 🤮
Could have been a laugh of disbelief. The man felt insulted.
Just wanted to say it's always a pleasure to see Aron on the show.
Holy crap Aron Ra and Forrest Valkai. This is great we'll learn so much
This guys just LIES all the time. Damn!. He couldn't repeat anything that has been said in the past 30 seconds accurately.
It's simple, if this guy believes his personal experience is proof of God then he must except all other gods based.on personal experience.
accept
2 of my favorite Science educators! I will enjoy this.
That laughing of him is disgusting.
🐻Aah... I should have waited until the end to comment, and with respect to both Forrest and Aron they missed the crucial point (imo)... it isn't about a Nazi becoming a Christian and thus a better person... it was a Nazi became a better person AT THE END OF THE WAR. Like, yeah... it's AMAZING how many Nazi's became marginally better people AT THE END THE WAR... not just Nazi's either... many of the allied troops found they were killing significantly less people, on average... AT THE END OF THE WAR... funny that, ain't it? How general standards of behaviour are slightly better during PEACETIME than during a fucking WAR?! Argh...!!! Not a pop at the hosts, obviously... their answers were fine too... but I just thought, y'know, someone ought to mention it. 🐻
Holy crap this is amazing. What a duo!
"you act like faith is a bad thing"
"it is"
"its the worst thing"
Love it!