@@goodmorondo you know Strell - he tried car review on ertiga and he is a motorcyclist so he changed gear by redlining 😂😂 in an ertiga, he is lucky that he didnt met with an accident 😅
Of all the EV first impressions I've watched on this channel, the River Indie is the only scooter that made both Shumi & Karthikeya excited & happy so that's telling something about the company who, as Shumi said, set out to build one thing & ended building that exact that. Hope the Oxra guys can pull themselves together & bring out the "ready to sell" product soon.
MotorInc First is for first impressions only. We tried the F77 a while ago and now we got to test it, so the opportunity to do MotorInc First evaporated, really
The utter, complete, one hundred percent honesty - THAT is what I LOVE about MotorInc's videos! THIS is the way automotive journalism should be. Shumi's inimitable way of saying things spices things up, turns on the heat. Lovely 😊👍
This honesty in Auto Journalism was long lost for us as viwwers. Thank you Motorinc for being REAL and being on OUR Side. A BIG BIG thanks to you guys. 🎉 Pls never change
Dear Motorinc, can’t explain how good a job y’all are doing , I am probably a very small minority but I remember showing my mum the first video and saying that’s Shumi where he says “always showed up”. Please continue. Don’t bite the money train, yet!!!. Answering the question, range, anyday all day.
2:05 Look at the Back Seat Guys. This is a one man bike, and this is also an everyday bike with a real-life range of 140+ range ladies kaha pe baitenge, ek everyday bike pe
One of the reels from you guys recently popped up on my Instagram and I binge watched all your videos the entire night 😂 such genuine, candid, detailed explanations about machines, I haven’t seen any other guys do it. Love it ❤
I completely agree with what Shumi is saying here. For context I am a Revolt RV 400 owner(2yrs). But to answer the question "What do you really want from an EV motorcycle?" My answer: 1st priority is atleast 200Kms of true range. Three riding modes is super important to make the bike versatile to use in every situation. Now in terms of performance I do not look for top speed I just want ample amount of power in motor so that it can comfortably climb up ramps with a pillion. Current state of EVs are insanely misleading. They claim insane torque numbers but they do not translate to real world. For instance I also have and ICE(TVS Wego) not remotely powerful engine. But I have almost never have faced issues with it's torque and power to climb and overtake. One of the most brutal problem I face with my Revolt is it's torque. I have an underground garage. Everday when I go out with my bike, to climb the garage ramp I have to always ensure that I never leave the accelerator. Cause if by chance somebody comes in my way and I leave the throttle then I have to use my muscles for the rest of the climb or just go back and start again. I wont bore you with the thousands of other negatives just in summary ICE is far more reliable than EVs at current state. But I do love EVs an their smoothness they have come a long way and I respect all the people for their efforts on making such great innovations and taking small steps towards greener future.
I recently rode f77, loved it for 25 mins then range anxiety and planing route back got to me. Then in slow speeds i felt the drawback of the weight. Wasnt too bothersome but i remindered myself its a supersport so ya its heavy. I came back with mixed feeling . The daybefore my friend offer his f77 for a ride on it again . I passed. So i feel the ev bikes should be on some kind of subscription service. Owning it fulltime doesnt make sense. Few hours or days of riding it, youl be over the hype and that ev energy surge.
Don't give the manufacturers the idea of a subscription model for any part of the vehicle, it will be a terrible thing if it gets implemented. A simple mode switch would be much better idea than subscription. The moment they start a subscription model for a vehicle they won't stop until they milk the money out of you. They might even make a subscription plan to just plug in the charger.
On contrary, you just need faster charging with availability every 5kms in city and 50km on highways, which is there for cars, which means you will never have to worry about running out of juice at place with no charging facility. Con with bikes is each manufacturer is using thier own socket and standard for charging. Meaning you have to carry heavy ass chargers everywhere.
I feel the biggest challenge for EV motorcycles apart from all the quality issues and delivery timelines at the moment is charging the vehicle. For scooters carrying a charger is pretty easy as there is under seat storage. The EV motorcycle companies need to figure out a way that they can deliver faster charging through charging cables that can be carried easily without breaking one's back (literally). I like what Ultraviolette has done with their motorcycle however looking at the size of the charger I am not too inclined on buying it as that is additional weight that I need to carry.
Absolutely. and this is coming from someone who owns an F77. Its an awesome motorcycle to ride in the city and I was planning to upgrade to a 390 or a Ninja 300 before purchasing the F77 and I genuinely feel I would've made a mistake if I'd done so. But charging is a pain in the ass.. the moment you think of long rides, anxiety sets in and carrying a charger is not really feasible.. at least on a backpack. So yeah, charging networks or stick to the city ..is the verdict for now.
Lack Goverment enforcement has ruined 2. Wheeler ev market, everyone is using their own charging standard and socket meaning there is no incentive for 3rd party vendors to install charging stations for bikes. If they do it will wall socket meaning you have to carry your charger which is inconvenient as faster charger = fatter and heavier
I think prices and range and performance are things people can cope with, but as you guys always discuss consistency of quality is something we cannot negotiate.
Sometimes we don't give enough credit to you guys for willingly sitting on new tech from a new team! Honestly, be it an ICE or an EV, new team and new tech could be disastrous to say the least (not saying that it is probable but it is possible). Itis honestly great to see a lot of new manufacturers entering and trying to make a serious brand and product (not just a build to print from a Chinese manufacturer) and I wish them all the best. It's also great to see you guys give them a break and take risks alongside with them by riding pre-production bikes.
Hi, I'm sorry to be commenting before fully watching the video but Shumi Sir mentioned something about the rear number plate having to be placed after the rear tyre due to norms ( 10:16 ). Can we get more details on this? I'm asking because I have been wanting to replace the mudguard of my Dominar with a tyre hugger. But if it turns out to be illegal then I'd rather forget the idea..! Thanks.
You should be be fine Jeet, police usually do not enforce this rule... but a manufacturer doesn't have a choice about this, unlike you, because the guys who do the homologation will not certify a tail tidy
Everytime I listen to MotorInc's video where Shumi and Karthik sit and talk, it is as if I am with them discussing. It is more conversational than a review, which is very hard to see nowadays. As for the question "What to look for in a EV motorcycle", everyone seems to be going for the aggressive looks and agressive performance, but I'm disappointed that there is no EV cruiser motorcycle. Just relax and ride along at a cruising speed of 80 along the highways in an EV and ride long. I see that as a better option than these performance oreinted bikes as EVs are not meant for racing. If you race, then batteries will die quickly, simple.
Thanks Koushik! We believe the problem is not of format, but of perspective. Motorcycles are not bound by city limits and therefore, making sure there's enough battery range for it to roam is the big one... and the option is to fix that and end up with outrageous pricing. And if you cannot solve the ability to roam, then you have a big-wheeled scooter without storage, as it were
I literally glued to this video just because of Shumi's explanations but I had to leave this at 15:16 because of so disappointing 8 years of an indian company
When i saw the first pictures of the Mantis i thought the design was polarizing and i absolutely despise the headlight design as well but i kept an open mind that they would've redeemed themselves in the electronics and handling department. Fast forwards two days later and after hearing Shumi's horror story and watching some other reviewers echo a similar story, I'm convinced that Orxa (and to an extent, other recent EV startups that popped up in the last 10 years) should reconsider their approach to this market altogether. I'd rather have a well made end product rather than a half-baked mess that was made to be catered to be in the so-called "gold rush" that is the Indian electric vehicle market. This is one of the very reasons i have a gripe with Ola electric as well. They promised a whole lot of stuff and dumped a whole lot of resources in generating hype for what was basically a Dutch E-scooter with a rushed R&D. Now granted, that almost three years in, the brand has moved on and has massively improved most of the post-launch gripes people had. Heck, even i am willing to admit that very statement because i took a test drive of the recently updated S1 Pro and was very satisfied with it but if im ever in the market for an E-Scooter i would not consider the Ola purely because i am a person who hates living in a state of anticipation of what could go wrong all thanks to Ola's preliminary dent to their goodwill of which the bitterness still lingers even today. I'd much rather consider an iQube or Chetak because im pretty sure that it will work 96% of the time that i want it to. That, and some of their user experience choices, dont even make sense to me like no physical keys? C'mon now. I'm pretty sure even the staunchest of Ola fanboys wish they had a physical key. Off tangent rant aside, My wish is that domestic electric vehicle manufacturers need to chill with most of the messy releases. Take their sweet time and deliver a well built and reliable end product rather than releasing stuff on hopes, prayers and engineered brochures. I wish the Orxa team the best of luck on delivering a banger product I'm pretty sure that my comment will be shot down by some troll, fanboy or marketing pundit on how wrong i am to which i say "I'm not reading allat"
Great points! Unfortunately, we believe some of this mess is also caused by the stipulations that the investors place in front of the startups, which forces them to reveal things to public long before they're ready
@@motorinc Indeed a concern. At the end of the day Orxa is a profit seeking company and terms like this ultimately does affect the final output. Cash is king in this business and how it is utilised matters. I hope they utilize it wisely.
Guys, generally Schumi says that he doesnt go to events unless those products are production ready, which I respect. As i understand the Mantis was a prototype. Why an exception this time?
I like the fact there's only conversation about the product than about the reviewers and more music... Lol . Thanks Shumi and Karthikeya. I love this theme of review and i didnt hesitate to Subscribe and like the content even before watching the contents just for you guys
They went through this cycle too - about four years ago. But even then their motorcycles were ridden on track and fairly hard. From them to launch they worked out the issues. It still has some issues - but not deal breakers like this.
I think hybrids are something we need to start at for a motorcycle. If at all you want the riders to even start thinking of an ev. Cause Even if today an ev bike comes with all the check marks clear i would still have an ICE dream bike at the price for sure.
Hybrids on bikes are going to be interesting but at the moment, there's a fairly significant packaging challenge -- it means two entire powertrains have to be fitted into the two-wheelers
@@motorinc the hyrider or hycross uses a small battery that is fit under seat and uses ecvt that is 2 motors connected inplace of a transmission one works as a transmission and other as a support to engine so this type of mechanism can be used, as the engine is like a generator and in slow moving traffic and constant speeds motor works and i prove fuel efficiency and reduce emissions
19:43 Here's what I think - e-Bikes have performance modes in them. They can be tuned in such a way that switching modes should be the answer to turning it into a commuter, or a widow-maker. So, I am of the belief that e-bikes should have more range, thus making it either have immense performance at the cost of range, or a large range at the cost of top speed. The problems I see with them currently, are build quality and price. Most e-bikes stop working the moment it rains and a drop of water enters it's insides. Then there's the steep prices they come at.
@@cineenthusiast1234 I bought a Gixxer 250. I plan to upgrade to either the V-strom 250, Yezdi Scrambler, or Himalayan 450 next. Or some other bike with high ground clearance, with the option to lower the seat height if it happens to be too tall.
"This is one of our shorter episodes - we do have much longer episodes sometimes" 😉. I usually manage to drink two cups of hot tea per episode. And I love it 👍☺️
VCs are so bullish on EV Markets that they have started to fund startups which are literally making toys on the pretext of bikes and scooters. Even college projects have better finish levels and design thinking. I used to be a part of the Baja SAE competitions and we made damn good vehicles that too for the sake of a competition. Retailing this underdone stuff at such a heavy pricetag is straight down horrible.
8:44 what in the..that shouldn’t happen! Good catch. 15:52 man that crack! Nice review. Time we got you on the big bike first impressions - the 2024 CB500X (NX500), Vstrom 800DE etc
Hi Kartik & Shumi, You guys made my world happier by putting a lot of logic and straight questions on the quality , design and performance of bikes in India. My Question: I want to buy a 250+ cc bike which has the comfort of a cruiser and also having low height (I am 5.5") , I want to take my batter half on tours. ( A big no to Ronin, Avengers). I currently having a Gixxer 250cc Naked (2 years old) and to get on to it is an Achilles heel for my wife. I wish Kawasaki W175 would have 250cc engine with 26ps, (ALAS ! )
Man how long we should wait for RTR 310 REVIEW we want REVIEW from shumi 's perspective please drop as soon as you can with all of your magic and knowledge
I had a chance to ask the same question to Bipul Chandra who is ducati india ceo. He said same exact thing... Electric motorcycle is not possible at least for now due to battery tech not at an enough level. This is in 2022 but its sad that things are still same
I think after listening to Shumi, the name (that i thought was awful when i started to watch) is the best part of the motorcycle 😂 Maybe we can make it a fancy bumblebee inverter for home. That would be cool ! Whatsay ?
This is the most brutal initial review of a motorcycle.....ever!!! But then again, it's what the product showed the reviewer and that's what was spoken here..... Journalism at its very best 🤘 by the way, calling this a motorcycle is a bit of a "stretch". Fancy railway engine is more like it 😅😅😅
Have you guys heard of Raptee HV.. they just announced themselves in Oct 24... their intro video sounds really great and perfect and at some level too good to be true.. will be great if you could review them.. i am keen to buy one purely from an experience point of view sometime next year.. but respect what you guys do so would like to hear from you guys
I rode the Mantis and met the founders. They sounded like really nice people. But when it comes to the bike, Shumi is right, the design is busy in my opinion and it looks like unfinished - like a work-in-progress. The bike I was riding overheated too. That’s because I rode for the first time with riding boots and I think I was touching the rear brake pedal accidentally. It very quickly cooled down though. I doubt the same thing happened with Shumi 😅. The digital readout seemed like reading data from a Racelogic V-box. I really hope they they buy time and improve the finish.
@@motorinc How do you achieve that? Remember in the podcast This connect episode you mentioned a Mumbai Battery manufacturer asking for your opinion on an electric vehicle they had built (but disassembled at night and forgot some crucial nuts and bolts in the morning) and you ended almost crashing.
@@motorinc Just the passion for building the an electric motorcycle shouldn't be a primary motivator for the company. Good engineering, solid team for R & D and testing, along with a solid plan to reach the market among others should be driving the company. Just because one can build an electric motorcycle shouldn't mean that one should.
Hello Shumi, I hope you won't remember me but I remember previously in comment section I asked you about which bike can I prefer in this budget like, your answer made me feel so relaxed..... One more request and question Why didn't you made single video on honda hness or honda cb350 .. due to does it openly look like mixed fruit juice of royal Enfield and triumph... But I have interest on that bike ..let me know something from your end brother ...
@@motorincunbiased analysis of UX is the basis of a design brief - wish Indian companies could learn that and practice it too. But I guess investors in startups don't care, so why should the startups/ unicorns???!!!
Manufacturers are getting shivers by watching these top notch detailed and honest reviews..How could they even thought they can call journalists for test ride😅..No offense but are they thinking that all youtube vloggers as journalists??? Come on! These two will eat you for breakfast if you give this to them to ride😅
Some very strong opinions.. I think Shumi really needs to think is he communicating an informed opinion or some built-up bias? He says "I don't think an electric motorcycle is humanly possible to make yet " "Not at anything resembling a reasonable price" "Unless the price is ridiculously high, 15L rupees for rc390 kind"... Ok. So let's say there is an EV that does it? Then is there an acceptable price/premium he is willing to pay for completely new technology ? How much he is willing to pay ? Or he's not? If not 15L, is that 5L ? Or is that also too much. Is he expecting ICE prices? Isnt that a weird thing to expect when ICEs are going out in a few years . He says Expensive, stupid expensive, ridiculously expensive .. whats the scale here ? What is reasonable and where does that come into the scale ? Any thoughts?
"Physically impossible to do it" "Batteries are not good enough" Like really strong statements... Are these actual formed opinions or those of European manufacturers who don't have any serious EV bike ready yet? Ive heard the similar statements from engineers who work there.
So a strong opinion must be a built-up bias? Not sure what you mean there. But here's the thing. The last electric motorcycle we rode, briefly as it was, that didn't overheat, ran well and had the promise of reasonable range was the (Harley) LiveWire. And that was so expensive that H-D India didn't even think about launching it here. And that was years ago... and very little has changed. To us, the real scale is where we're at. And how much we'll extend past that because we like the silence/performance/whatever aspect of the electric alternative to ICEs. In cars and scooters, this has already been achieved in many ways. Cars have space and the price to carry liquid-cooling for consistent performance. Scooters don't leave the city, performance/dynamics expectations are low and they just flat out work. The motorcycle is the tough nut. Make the range right and you have weight, a very large battery and a hefty price. Make the price right and now it has poor performance and range.
@@motorinc how is livewire comparable to a KTM rc390? You want 105 bhp at 40bhp price? By your logic the livewire is also reasonably priced if you see similar powered offerings from Triumph or Ducati. If anything, the UV F77 comes closest to make a balanced argument. Adequate power and range. Yet you called that also expensive. The TVS Apache 310 is at 3.5L, the BMWs are ~4L. In my view, UV has in fact bridged the price gap if you look at the final on road price of comparable ICEs. So what according to you is the right price?
Yes, the LiveWire at 9-10 lakh would be kickass. But it would have been closer to 2x, 2.2x that. Ideally an RC390-equivalent bike shouldn't be more than 15-20% more expensive at the most. And that is before you account for the fact that none of these EVs have dynamics _anywhere close_ to where the ICEs are today. *Nowhere Close!*
I think based on battery tech which matches Ultraviolette. All I would ask is DC fast charging which can top up in half an hour or may be less at every 100km on highways will let you enjoy the performance.
And coming to EV 2 wheeler, I am of the opinion that a Maxi-scooter design is very suitable where it can accomodate a larger battery, bigger tyres without sacrificing storage and ease of scooter.
Silence is something i kinda look for in an ev. I dont want the exhaust note constantly buzzing in my ears. Unfortunately theyre not all that silent. The athers whine so much. The ola does that as well. I haven't seen an ultraviolette but I've heard that whine in videos as well. Its like giving you an option of choosing whether you want a bassy exhaust note from an ice (unless what you have is one of those screamer sports bikes) or high pitched whine from an ev. The pathetic attempts at greenwashing also really turns me off from evs.
@@motorinc damn, you're right! It even has some grunts here and there, just shows how much can still be improved on machines that seem to be much less complex compared to an ice. Still dont like the high pitch at the top end though, i feel it could be an annoyance over time, although i havent taken an ev 2 wheeler like that to speak.
As people who are a mixed of scooter and motorcycle users, here is what we at Vignale think: -If one is looking for a scooter with the usage restricted to the city, go for an electric scooter from a good manufacturer as they may give you a better riding experience as told by some ladies in the office who took a test rides of an ola -If you are looking for a motorcycle you are probably better off with an ICE as they offer a better interaction between the rider and the machine as stated by the same ladies and some gentlemen. In a nutshell EV as a primary mode of transport makes sense for the scooter for within city limits and motorcycle as an EV doesn’t make sense so don’t buy them.
This was so well put, and not berating but telling what it is...hope the founders are able to clear the issues which are a lot...how can having a line on sport bike or damn any bike makes sense unless you are making a hotwheel bike...this is where false promises happen...short chnage will get them initial bookings....but the companies will die if they do this and actually simply they do that in other industries...soon in moto too... unfortunate!!!!
Hey Guys, I recently took a test ride of the new Apache RTR 310 & felt positive about the motorcycle. Would really like to hear your thoughts & deep dive before I consider buying it. Thanks! You guys are doing an awesome job!! 🥂
@@motorinc Yes, the splendor in specific 😃. I still cant find a replacement for my splendor even after getting a Triumph. Comparing a bunch of commuters perhaps would get a lot more enthusiasts to discover the art that you guys create. My point is simple.... I just want people to discover your channel cause I feel that you guys are way toooo underrated. Best Regards, Sujith
Right now what I'm looking for in an EV is getting around the city running errands or a medium-ish daily office/college commute. Till the tech matures I'm not going to put my money on a fad(the motorcycle part) and regret it afterwards. The usability zone of the tech right now is 80-120 km and anything above that will be a constant range anxiety to live with. We should be familiar with this since we have all been running with a smartphone for quite a number of years.
Alternative fuel is the future of touring...not electric motorcycles...well electric scooters are ok...and the interview interaction format is enjoyable
This story has become the norm of most of the EV manufacturers. Over promising and under delivering. I do agree, they need time. But that should be coming from them, not from folks who are riding it and doing pre-prod testing/riding. What I want from an electric motorcycle. A recharge station when I am out of charge. And the video was so quick that my tea is still warm.🤣 #WithACupOfTea
Having worked in a Drone company which used Orxa batteries, I can help you define the meaning of bad experience and it's nowhere close to the "happy story" they claim to portray within the drone industry
The last time we rode one, it overheated and stranded us. And since then, chasing Tork to get a test bike has been met with obfuscation. So we don't really see the Kratos as something you should spend money on, really
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You know what would be fun? Send Shu to do a car review.
Kartikeya says he tried once before and the day was not pretty.
@@motorinc probably that’s what it needs to be, an uncomfortable review that’s when the real things come out 😂
@@motorincyou've got me more curious to see one with shumi sir now 😂😂
@@goodmorondo you know Strell - he tried car review on ertiga and he is a motorcyclist so he changed gear by redlining 😂😂 in an ertiga, he is lucky that he didnt met with an accident 😅
Better , to send him on mileage run.
Of all the EV first impressions I've watched on this channel, the River Indie is the only scooter that made both Shumi & Karthikeya excited & happy so that's telling something about the company who, as Shumi said, set out to build one thing & ended building that exact that. Hope the Oxra guys can pull themselves together & bring out the "ready to sell" product soon.
We hope so too!
They had decent review of F77 as well, but there was no motor inc first discussion video around it.
O yeah that’s true
MotorInc First is for first impressions only. We tried the F77 a while ago and now we got to test it, so the opportunity to do MotorInc First evaporated, really
The utter, complete, one hundred percent honesty - THAT is what I LOVE about MotorInc's videos! THIS is the way automotive journalism should be. Shumi's inimitable way of saying things spices things up, turns on the heat. Lovely 😊👍
Thank you BA. Good to have you here with us.
EV startups may disappoint us but you guys are always amazing 👌
Thank you so much!
This honesty in Auto Journalism was long lost for us as viwwers. Thank you Motorinc for being REAL and being on OUR Side.
A BIG BIG thanks to you guys. 🎉
Pls never change
Dear Motorinc, can’t explain how good a job y’all are doing , I am probably a very small minority but I remember showing my mum the first video and saying that’s Shumi where he says “always showed up”. Please continue. Don’t bite the money train, yet!!!. Answering the question, range, anyday all day.
Thank you so much!
2:05 Look at the Back Seat Guys. This is a one man bike, and this is also an everyday bike with a real-life range of 140+ range
ladies kaha pe baitenge, ek everyday bike pe
One of the reels from you guys recently popped up on my Instagram and I binge watched all your videos the entire night 😂 such genuine, candid, detailed explanations about machines, I haven’t seen any other guys do it. Love it ❤
Thanks so much! ❤️
I completely agree with what Shumi is saying here. For context I am a Revolt RV 400 owner(2yrs). But to answer the question "What do you really want from an EV motorcycle?"
My answer: 1st priority is atleast 200Kms of true range. Three riding modes is super important to make the bike versatile to use in every situation. Now in terms of performance I do not look for top speed I just want ample amount of power in motor so that it can comfortably climb up ramps with a pillion.
Current state of EVs are insanely misleading. They claim insane torque numbers but they do not translate to real world. For instance I also have and ICE(TVS Wego) not remotely powerful engine. But I have almost never have faced issues with it's torque and power to climb and overtake. One of the most brutal problem I face with my Revolt is it's torque. I have an underground garage. Everday when I go out with my bike, to climb the garage ramp I have to always ensure that I never leave the accelerator. Cause if by chance somebody comes in my way and I leave the throttle then I have to use my muscles for the rest of the climb or just go back and start again. I wont bore you with the thousands of other negatives just in summary ICE is far more reliable than EVs at current state. But I do love EVs an their smoothness they have come a long way and I respect all the people for their efforts on making such great innovations and taking small steps towards greener future.
The basement ramp is a massive point for sure! Thanks Agnibhas!
I recently rode f77, loved it for 25 mins then range anxiety and planing route back got to me. Then in slow speeds i felt the drawback of the weight. Wasnt too bothersome but i remindered myself its a supersport so ya its heavy. I came back with mixed feeling . The daybefore my friend offer his f77 for a ride on it again . I passed. So i feel the ev bikes should be on some kind of subscription service. Owning it fulltime doesnt make sense. Few hours or days of riding it, youl be over the hype and that ev energy surge.
We totally get your frustration with it, Uthkarsh
Don't give the manufacturers the idea of a subscription model for any part of the vehicle, it will be a terrible thing if it gets implemented. A simple mode switch would be much better idea than subscription.
The moment they start a subscription model for a vehicle they won't stop until they milk the money out of you. They might even make a subscription plan to just plug in the charger.
On contrary, you just need faster charging with availability every 5kms in city and 50km on highways, which is there for cars, which means you will never have to worry about running out of juice at place with no charging facility. Con with bikes is each manufacturer is using thier own socket and standard for charging. Meaning you have to carry heavy ass chargers everywhere.
Subscriptions, no matter how you slice it, will be the future. But it's a big shift in habit and it will take time for sure
I'm so excited to hear your thoughts on the Apache RTR 310!
Waiting for test bikes!
I'm waiting for your review as well ❤️
No sugar coating......just blunt and honest review 👏👏👏👏👏
Audio is a lot better in this video. Thanks for taking note.
Glad to hear!
I feel the biggest challenge for EV motorcycles apart from all the quality issues and delivery timelines at the moment is charging the vehicle. For scooters carrying a charger is pretty easy as there is under seat storage. The EV motorcycle companies need to figure out a way that they can deliver faster charging through charging cables that can be carried easily without breaking one's back (literally). I like what Ultraviolette has done with their motorcycle however looking at the size of the charger I am not too inclined on buying it as that is additional weight that I need to carry.
👍🏽👍🏽
Absolutely. and this is coming from someone who owns an F77. Its an awesome motorcycle to ride in the city and I was planning to upgrade to a 390 or a Ninja 300 before purchasing the F77 and I genuinely feel I would've made a mistake if I'd done so. But charging is a pain in the ass.. the moment you think of long rides, anxiety sets in and carrying a charger is not really feasible.. at least on a backpack. So yeah, charging networks or stick to the city ..is the verdict for now.
Lack Goverment enforcement has ruined 2. Wheeler ev market, everyone is using their own charging standard and socket meaning there is no incentive for 3rd party vendors to install charging stations for bikes. If they do it will wall socket meaning you have to carry your charger which is inconvenient as faster charger = fatter and heavier
Ultraviolette can easily Integrate their charger but it will add weight , that's the reason they are probably not doing it .
Zero has done it .
To ask for 3.7 lakhs while having a motorcycle to sell, that have so many issues is just impressive of them. Lovely review as always, guys.
I think prices and range and performance are things people can cope with, but as you guys always discuss consistency of quality is something we cannot negotiate.
And we shouldn’t.
Sometimes we don't give enough credit to you guys for willingly sitting on new tech from a new team!
Honestly, be it an ICE or an EV, new team and new tech could be disastrous to say the least (not saying that it is probable but it is possible).
Itis honestly great to see a lot of new manufacturers entering and trying to make a serious brand and product (not just a build to print from a Chinese manufacturer) and I wish them all the best. It's also great to see you guys give them a break and take risks alongside with them by riding pre-production bikes.
you guys have the best, no kidding, the best aesthetically and informative, automotive channel in India. good shit
Thank you so very much!
Hi,
I'm sorry to be commenting before fully watching the video but Shumi Sir mentioned something about the rear number plate having to be placed after the rear tyre due to norms ( 10:16 ). Can we get more details on this? I'm asking because I have been wanting to replace the mudguard of my Dominar with a tyre hugger. But if it turns out to be illegal then I'd rather forget the idea..! Thanks.
But the stck NS200 comes with a tail tidy, but there is no issue in registering that bike
You should be be fine Jeet, police usually do not enforce this rule... but a manufacturer doesn't have a choice about this, unlike you, because the guys who do the homologation will not certify a tail tidy
@@motorinc Thank you..!
Huge Fan of Shumi came running from PD the moment I saw the new channel ❤Please make video for Ducati Scrambler G2 2023
Everytime I listen to MotorInc's video where Shumi and Karthik sit and talk, it is as if I am with them discussing. It is more conversational than a review, which is very hard to see nowadays.
As for the question "What to look for in a EV motorcycle", everyone seems to be going for the aggressive looks and agressive performance, but I'm disappointed that there is no EV cruiser motorcycle. Just relax and ride along at a cruising speed of 80 along the highways in an EV and ride long. I see that as a better option than these performance oreinted bikes as EVs are not meant for racing. If you race, then batteries will die quickly, simple.
Thanks Koushik! We believe the problem is not of format, but of perspective. Motorcycles are not bound by city limits and therefore, making sure there's enough battery range for it to roam is the big one... and the option is to fix that and end up with outrageous pricing. And if you cannot solve the ability to roam, then you have a big-wheeled scooter without storage, as it were
I literally glued to this video just because of Shumi's explanations but I had to leave this at 15:16 because of so disappointing 8 years of an indian company
When i saw the first pictures of the Mantis i thought the design was polarizing and i absolutely despise the headlight design as well but i kept an open mind that they would've redeemed themselves in the electronics and handling department.
Fast forwards two days later and after hearing Shumi's horror story and watching some other reviewers echo a similar story, I'm convinced that Orxa (and to an extent, other recent EV startups that popped up in the last 10 years) should reconsider their approach to this market altogether. I'd rather have a well made end product rather than a half-baked mess that was made to be catered to be in the so-called "gold rush" that is the Indian electric vehicle market.
This is one of the very reasons i have a gripe with Ola electric as well. They promised a whole lot of stuff and dumped a whole lot of resources in generating hype for what was basically a Dutch E-scooter with a rushed R&D.
Now granted, that almost three years in, the brand has moved on and has massively improved most of the post-launch gripes people had. Heck, even i am willing to admit that very statement because i took a test drive of the recently updated S1 Pro and was very satisfied with it but if im ever in the market for an E-Scooter i would not consider the Ola purely because i am a person who hates living in a state of anticipation of what could go wrong all thanks to Ola's preliminary dent to their goodwill of which the bitterness still lingers even today. I'd much rather consider an iQube or Chetak because im pretty sure that it will work 96% of the time that i want it to.
That, and some of their user experience choices, dont even make sense to me like no physical keys? C'mon now. I'm pretty sure even the staunchest of Ola fanboys wish they had a physical key.
Off tangent rant aside, My wish is that domestic electric vehicle manufacturers need to chill with most of the messy releases. Take their sweet time and deliver a well built and reliable end product rather than releasing stuff on hopes, prayers and engineered brochures. I wish the Orxa team the best of luck on delivering a banger product
I'm pretty sure that my comment will be shot down by some troll, fanboy or marketing pundit on how wrong i am to which i say "I'm not reading allat"
Great points! Unfortunately, we believe some of this mess is also caused by the stipulations that the investors place in front of the startups, which forces them to reveal things to public long before they're ready
@@motorinc Indeed a concern. At the end of the day Orxa is a profit seeking company and terms like this ultimately does affect the final output. Cash is king in this business and how it is utilised matters. I hope they utilize it wisely.
Well said. I own an Ather and still feel a lot of stuff on the Ather is just marketing hype - incomplete - rough. But she never lets me down!
Guys, generally Schumi says that he doesnt go to events unless those products are production ready, which I respect. As i understand the Mantis was a prototype. Why an exception this time?
They said it was production.... and then it wasn't 🤷🏽♂️
@@motorinc Gotcha... But then this whole video is then out of place.. could have avoided it.... 😁😁
That would also that mean that a few people would end up making a booking and throwing away their hard-earned money, no?
Makes sense 😊
I like the fact there's only conversation about the product than about the reviewers and more music... Lol . Thanks Shumi and Karthikeya. I love this theme of review and i didnt hesitate to Subscribe and like the content even before watching the contents just for you guys
Thanks DPD! Welcome to MotorInc!
The Ultravoilet makes more sense to me in every domain.
They went through this cycle too - about four years ago. But even then their motorcycles were ridden on track and fairly hard. From them to launch they worked out the issues. It still has some issues - but not deal breakers like this.
I am waiting on the RTR310. Any plans on that? 🥺
Test bike is still not in sight.
I think hybrids are something we need to start at for a motorcycle. If at all you want the riders to even start thinking of an ev. Cause Even if today an ev bike comes with all the check marks clear i would still have an ICE dream bike at the price for sure.
Yes may be an ECVT hybrid like the city, hyrider etc
Hybrids on bikes are going to be interesting but at the moment, there's a fairly significant packaging challenge -- it means two entire powertrains have to be fitted into the two-wheelers
Hey SG! 2W hybrids are currently a packaging challenge -- how to fit two full powertrains in a very small space, really
@@motorinc the hyrider or hycross uses a small battery that is fit under seat and uses ecvt that is 2 motors connected inplace of a transmission one works as a transmission and other as a support to engine so this type of mechanism can be used, as the engine is like a generator and in slow moving traffic and constant speeds motor works and i prove fuel efficiency and reduce emissions
19:43 Here's what I think -
e-Bikes have performance modes in them. They can be tuned in such a way that switching modes should be the answer to turning it into a commuter, or a widow-maker. So, I am of the belief that e-bikes should have more range, thus making it either have immense performance at the cost of range, or a large range at the cost of top speed.
The problems I see with them currently, are build quality and price. Most e-bikes stop working the moment it rains and a drop of water enters it's insides. Then there's the steep prices they come at.
Have you had any experience yourself? Would be helpful to know which bike?
@@motorinc I ended up buying a pre-owned Gixxer 250 naked. My Dad was firmly against the idea of EVs thinking about rain-damage. I agree with him.
There are lots of chinese assembled bikes and scooters, dont buy them, currently best - ultraviolet, ather, iqube, chetak and river indie
@@cineenthusiast1234 I bought a Gixxer 250. I plan to upgrade to either the V-strom 250, Yezdi Scrambler, or Himalayan 450 next.
Or some other bike with high ground clearance, with the option to lower the seat height if it happens to be too tall.
Yezdi scrambler failed miserably there is no sales in kerala, same with vstorm no one need a vstorm, i doubt whether this will lead to parts shortage
"This is one of our shorter episodes - we do have much longer episodes sometimes" 😉. I usually manage to drink two cups of hot tea per episode. And I love it 👍☺️
Haha! Thanks PBG!
VCs are so bullish on EV Markets that they have started to fund startups which are literally making toys on the pretext of bikes and scooters. Even college projects have better finish levels and design thinking. I used to be a part of the Baja SAE competitions and we made damn good vehicles that too for the sake of a competition. Retailing this underdone stuff at such a heavy pricetag is straight down horrible.
Great, thanks for making people aware of the experience.
Our pleasure!
8:44 what in the..that shouldn’t happen! Good catch. 15:52 man that crack! Nice review. Time we got you on the big bike first impressions - the 2024 CB500X (NX500), Vstrom 800DE etc
Soon OTR! All in good time 😊
When’s the X440 video coming out?
In the works! Should be soon!
Hi Kartik & Shumi,
You guys made my world happier by putting a lot of logic and straight questions on the quality , design and performance of bikes in India.
My Question: I want to buy a 250+ cc bike which has the comfort of a cruiser and also having low height (I am 5.5") , I want to take my batter half on tours. ( A big no to Ronin, Avengers).
I currently having a Gixxer 250cc Naked (2 years old) and to get on to it is an Achilles heel for my wife.
I wish Kawasaki W175 would have 250cc engine with 26ps, (ALAS ! )
Plz a review on honda cb350
Love the intro song of your videos!
Thank you!
Last 2 min by Shumi is the extract of all ev motorcycle.
Man how long we should wait for RTR 310 REVIEW we want REVIEW from shumi 's perspective please drop as soon as you can with all of your magic and knowledge
I don’t care what these guys are talking about, I will always listen.❤
Appreciate it!
Did you guys visit EICMA in milan ?
I will definitely Pray for this Mantis 🙏
🫡
Can you review the Tork?
What about matter Aera 5000? Is it in your view?
Come on team motor inc . We need frequent first impressions ! This what you get for creating good content …. Dil maange more ! And jaldi jaldi !
Let's see what we can do!
Listening to your observations (very sharp and in-depth) and looking at their images it seems like they are not quite focused and it clearly shows up.
Please compare honda cb350 vs classic 350. Waiting for your review for long time
I had a chance to ask the same question to Bipul Chandra who is ducati india ceo. He said same exact thing... Electric motorcycle is not possible at least for now due to battery tech not at an enough level. This is in 2022 but its sad that things are still same
Thanks for keeping it real 👍🏻
🙏🏾
Ebike: 150km real-world range, basic maintenance like brake pads, reliable, speed is not the issue (80kmph is enough)
Thanks for letting us know!
Review on RTR310 ?
TBH what you have told about the battery overheating within 1.5km, I am more worried about the drone batteries they sold than the bikes 😅
🤣 As far as we know, those batteries are doing rather well, according to Orxa!
I really hope it’s just transaction issue from dron to bike and not the actual battery they gave to army.
Surveillance operation would turn out to be an unintentional surgical strike,and cloud man would benefit again xD
It's not the same battery... it's a drone, not an aircraft as far as we know
I think after listening to Shumi, the name (that i thought was awful when i started to watch) is the best part of the motorcycle 😂
Maybe we can make it a fancy bumblebee inverter for home. That would be cool ! Whatsay ?
When can we expect RTR 310 review?
This is the most brutal initial review of a motorcycle.....ever!!! But then again, it's what the product showed the reviewer and that's what was spoken here..... Journalism at its very best 🤘 by the way, calling this a motorcycle is a bit of a "stretch". Fancy railway engine is more like it 😅😅😅
Locomotive! How!
@@motorinc That length, to begin with. Then the....how do I put this? Industrial design language I suppose 🤔
Have you guys heard of Raptee HV.. they just announced themselves in Oct 24... their intro video sounds really great and perfect and at some level too good to be true.. will be great if you could review them.. i am keen to buy one purely from an experience point of view sometime next year.. but respect what you guys do so would like to hear from you guys
Need clarification, do motorcycle company sell pre production bikes? Also how to tell if the first batch are sold?
Now I'm worried about our Indian Army drones😅
Yikes!
Your video on Duke 250 has yet to come.why so late???
I rode the Mantis and met the founders. They sounded like really nice people. But when it comes to the bike, Shumi is right, the design is busy in my opinion and it looks like unfinished - like a work-in-progress. The bike I was riding overheated too. That’s because I rode for the first time with riding boots and I think I was touching the rear brake pedal accidentally. It very quickly cooled down though. I doubt the same thing happened with Shumi 😅. The digital readout seemed like reading data from a Racelogic V-box. I really hope they they buy time and improve the finish.
Yes, they are nice people. And we expected better from them. That’s why the disappointment.
I agree with Shumar here that it is impossible to build electric motorcycles at an affordable cost at present.
👍🏽
Correct! But that shouldn’t stop the motorcycles from being good motorcycles.
@@motorinc How do you achieve that? Remember in the podcast This connect episode you mentioned a Mumbai Battery manufacturer asking for your opinion on an electric vehicle they had built (but disassembled at night and forgot some crucial nuts and bolts in the morning) and you ended almost crashing.
@@motorinc Just the passion for building the an electric motorcycle shouldn't be a primary motivator for the company. Good engineering, solid team for R & D and testing, along with a solid plan to reach the market among others should be driving the company. Just because one can build an electric motorcycle shouldn't mean that one should.
was there any talk of changing the charge port to the Ather port as it's now become the standard for 2 wheelers??
No. They said the standard is there but it’s not legally required at the moment
Hello Shumi, I hope you won't remember me but I remember previously in comment section I asked you about which bike can I prefer in this budget like, your answer made me feel so relaxed.....
One more request and question
Why didn't you made single video on honda hness or honda cb350 .. due to does it openly look like mixed fruit juice of royal Enfield and triumph...
But I have interest on that bike ..let me know something from your end brother ...
For electric bikes, only one thing I wonder. how are they going to give adrenaline rush like bikes with the throttle and a decent exhaust?
MotorInc can execute a better EV than any of the 256 EV brands in India - and become it's 56th EV Unicorn.
Agreed! Although execute is a strong word. We prefer, analyse
@@motorincunbiased analysis of UX is the basis of a design brief - wish Indian companies could learn that and practice it too. But I guess investors in startups don't care, so why should the startups/ unicorns???!!!
Manufacturers are getting shivers by watching these top notch detailed and honest reviews..How could they even thought they can call journalists for test ride😅..No offense but are they thinking that all youtube vloggers as journalists??? Come on! These two will eat you for breakfast if you give this to them to ride😅
Some very strong opinions.. I think Shumi really needs to think is he communicating an informed opinion or some built-up bias?
He says "I don't think an electric motorcycle is humanly possible to make yet "
"Not at anything resembling a reasonable price"
"Unless the price is ridiculously high, 15L rupees for rc390 kind"...
Ok. So let's say there is an EV that does it? Then is there an acceptable price/premium he is willing to pay for completely new technology ? How much he is willing to pay ? Or he's not? If not 15L, is that 5L ? Or is that also too much. Is he expecting ICE prices? Isnt that a weird thing to expect when ICEs are going out in a few years .
He says Expensive, stupid expensive, ridiculously expensive .. whats the scale here ? What is reasonable and where does that come into the scale ? Any thoughts?
"Physically impossible to do it"
"Batteries are not good enough"
Like really strong statements... Are these actual formed opinions or those of European manufacturers who don't have any serious EV bike ready yet? Ive heard the similar statements from engineers who work there.
So a strong opinion must be a built-up bias? Not sure what you mean there.
But here's the thing. The last electric motorcycle we rode, briefly as it was, that didn't overheat, ran well and had the promise of reasonable range was the (Harley) LiveWire. And that was so expensive that H-D India didn't even think about launching it here. And that was years ago... and very little has changed.
To us, the real scale is where we're at. And how much we'll extend past that because we like the silence/performance/whatever aspect of the electric alternative to ICEs. In cars and scooters, this has already been achieved in many ways. Cars have space and the price to carry liquid-cooling for consistent performance. Scooters don't leave the city, performance/dynamics expectations are low and they just flat out work.
The motorcycle is the tough nut. Make the range right and you have weight, a very large battery and a hefty price. Make the price right and now it has poor performance and range.
@@motorinc how is livewire comparable to a KTM rc390? You want 105 bhp at 40bhp price? By your logic the livewire is also reasonably priced if you see similar powered offerings from Triumph or Ducati.
If anything, the UV F77 comes closest to make a balanced argument. Adequate power and range. Yet you called that also expensive. The TVS Apache 310 is at 3.5L, the BMWs are ~4L. In my view, UV has in fact bridged the price gap if you look at the final on road price of comparable ICEs.
So what according to you is the right price?
Yes, the LiveWire at 9-10 lakh would be kickass. But it would have been closer to 2x, 2.2x that. Ideally an RC390-equivalent bike shouldn't be more than 15-20% more expensive at the most. And that is before you account for the fact that none of these EVs have dynamics _anywhere close_ to where the ICEs are today. *Nowhere Close!*
Hybrid motorcycles are what i will definitely have in my garage once they are brought into existence.
Waiting for Ninja 7 Hybrid
Hey any update on aprilia rs 457 first impressions
Nothing yet. 🤷♂️
Shumi just puts the nail on the head
Hits! 😁
Did you guys travel to Thailand and ride R3/MT03, waiting for your thoughts on the same.
No, we didn’t.
I think based on battery tech which matches Ultraviolette.
All I would ask is DC fast charging which can top up in half an hour or may be less at every 100km on highways will let you enjoy the performance.
👍🏽
Exactly the thing Non Ola and Athers are missing.
Do you take interns? This channel is sooo cool
Yes, we do. Check out our social handles for openings.
Can u review Apache RTR 310?
What is your thoughts on the new UV F77 Mach 2? Price is reduced and added more features. Is this good to consider?
I want to know Shumi's opinion on the F77 , even though it's expensive,it atleast delivers on the experience and promise right ?
BT! Try to keep up! 😊
ua-cam.com/video/smTAnpxg-CA/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
@@motorinc all righty then !
And coming to EV 2 wheeler, I am of the opinion that a Maxi-scooter design is very suitable where it can accomodate a larger battery, bigger tyres without sacrificing storage and ease of scooter.
Im not ready for a (silent)EV bike 😅
Looks like I'll have to bump up my BikeSavings and get a petrol one asap!
Keep us posted!
Silence is something i kinda look for in an ev. I dont want the exhaust note constantly buzzing in my ears. Unfortunately theyre not all that silent. The athers whine so much. The ola does that as well. I haven't seen an ultraviolette but I've heard that whine in videos as well. Its like giving you an option of choosing whether you want a bassy exhaust note from an ice (unless what you have is one of those screamer sports bikes) or high pitched whine from an ev.
The pathetic attempts at greenwashing also really turns me off from evs.
The whine is real, for sure. And when tuned right -- listen to the Livewire! -- it sounds great!
@@motorinc damn, you're right! It even has some grunts here and there, just shows how much can still be improved on machines that seem to be much less complex compared to an ice. Still dont like the high pitch at the top end though, i feel it could be an annoyance over time, although i havent taken an ev 2 wheeler like that to speak.
As people who are a mixed of scooter and motorcycle users, here is what we at Vignale think:
-If one is looking for a scooter with the usage restricted to the city, go for an electric scooter from a good manufacturer as they may give you a better riding experience as told by some ladies in the office who took a test rides of an ola
-If you are looking for a motorcycle you are probably better off with an ICE as they offer a better interaction between the rider and the machine as stated by the same ladies and some gentlemen.
In a nutshell EV as a primary mode of transport makes sense for the scooter for within city limits and motorcycle as an EV doesn’t make sense so don’t buy them.
This was so well put, and not berating but telling what it is...hope the founders are able to clear the issues which are a lot...how can having a line on sport bike or damn any bike makes sense unless you are making a hotwheel bike...this is where false promises happen...short chnage will get them initial bookings....but the companies will die if they do this and actually simply they do that in other industries...soon in moto too... unfortunate!!!!
Overpromise. Underestimate. Underdeliver. Too many misses.
1. Reliability is the most important for me, be it any vehicle
2. It would be fun if the second person has a way to look at the images talked about
1 - absolutely!
Hey Guys,
I recently took a test ride of the new Apache RTR 310 & felt positive about the motorcycle. Would really like to hear your thoughts & deep dive before I consider buying it. Thanks!
You guys are doing an awesome job!! 🥂
We will try! Glad you're liking the MotorInc experience!
Where can i find the bracelet which shumi is wearing..
Hey! We don't believe there's a link to that -- he made that himself a long time ago. He suggests googling "paracord trilobite" to see how to make one
@@motorinc cool. Thanks for replying
*Requesting Shumi n Karthi to do a review on the splendor and how it just hasn't changed*
Noted! Splendor in specific? Or any of the commuters?
@@motorinc Yes, the splendor in specific 😃. I still cant find a replacement for my splendor even after getting a Triumph. Comparing a bunch of commuters perhaps would get a lot more enthusiasts to discover the art that you guys create. My point is simple.... I just want people to discover your channel cause I feel that you guys are way toooo underrated.
Best Regards,
Sujith
Allright, thank you Sujith!
Excellent takedown
Calling it as we see it.
Anything now??
Please make video on tork kratos
Right now what I'm looking for in an EV is getting around the city running errands or a medium-ish daily office/college commute. Till the tech matures I'm not going to put my money on a fad(the motorcycle part) and regret it afterwards. The usability zone of the tech right now is 80-120 km and anything above that will be a constant range anxiety to live with. We should be familiar with this since we have all been running with a smartphone for quite a number of years.
Intro music is dope.
Thank you!
Absolutely agree with Shumi! Compared to IC engines, EVs don't stand a chance, yet!
When are we getting Shumi sir ride review on the new Himalayan
Stay tuned! Waiting for it to arrive at MotorInc Studios.
@@motorinc waiting eagerly
Alternative fuel is the future of touring...not electric motorcycles...well electric scooters are ok...and the interview interaction format is enjoyable
This story has become the norm of most of the EV manufacturers. Over promising and under delivering. I do agree, they need time. But that should be coming from them, not from folks who are riding it and doing pre-prod testing/riding.
What I want from an electric motorcycle. A recharge station when I am out of charge.
And the video was so quick that my tea is still warm.🤣
#WithACupOfTea
This is a run of the mill ev 2 wheeler experience. Remember simple energy? You have a really good memory coz nobody does.
First impression on Yamaha r3 and mt-03?
Please stay tuned for that.
Having worked in a Drone company which used Orxa batteries, I can help you define the meaning of bad experience and it's nowhere close to the "happy story" they claim to portray within the drone industry
Oh no! Can you please tell us more?
Is those rebranded chinese batteries?
May be Tork Kratos....? what is your take on this bike....?
The last time we rode one, it overheated and stranded us. And since then, chasing Tork to get a test bike has been met with obfuscation. So we don't really see the Kratos as something you should spend money on, really
Good impression
🙏🏾
When are you doing Scorpio n
Very soon! In the works!
what about the hybrid motorcyle , kawasaki showcased one few months back.
It's very expensive at the moment!
@@motorinc more then pure EV?
Yes! A hybrid implies a full electric as well as a full ICE powertrain in the same machine. Its the most expensive way to make a vehicle there is
@@motorinc ohh, okay