How to diagnose Toyota Timing Chain Rattle or Knock troubleshoot 22R 22RE 22RET
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- Every Toyota 22R series engine with the single row timing chain and plastic timing guides (1983~ish - 1995) that I have ever purchased with over 100,000 miles on the engine has had a driver's side guide that was either partially broken or just totally gone. To the untrained ear it sounds a like the valves need adjusting, but in this video I'll show you how to inspect, troubleshoot, and diagnose a broken driver's side timing guide. It makes a great bargaining chip when you can show the seller that the timing guide is broken and then inform them that it's an $800+ repair at a shop. If you can fix it on your own it will only run you about $100 in parts and a Saturday's worth of time.
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9yrs and still helping fellow Toyota owners!!! Thanks
Wheelie pete you by far makethe most understandable and useful toyota videos. Im a 61 yr female working on my 86 toyota and i wish you made more toyota repair videos. You are the shiznik!!!!
Thank you so much for posting this! I had no idea where to start looking for the noise. Pulled the valve cover off and sure enough, broken guide.
Thank you for this informative sequence, good dialogue, clear and easy to follow-super!
thats awesome, looks like you take pride in your work because there's not many guys out there that'll clean the cover up after reinstalling it, thanks for the video!
Well made video, thanks for the helpful tips. I appreciate your clear speaking and to the point information. My 1984 22R does not have this marble in a box sounds but the valve cover does leak like a siv. Will check the tensioner once the cover is off.
Very thorough and informative videos Pete. I appreciate them.
Awesome info. Pete ! I'm about to embark on replacing my '92 Toyota pickup timing set, and you answered most of the questions I had about it. Thanks for the high def. and well lit pictures as well. They are a great help ! Mike
I just bought a Toyota pick-up with this motor and that's the exact noise I hear loudest on start and constantly in 4th gear at about 2000 rpm.Thanks so much great help
Pete,
Thanks for the video. My little brother just purchased a 93 Pickup with the 22RE and the seller told us up front that the obnoxiously loud slapping noise was just the engine needing a valvetrain adjustment. Said he was going for SAE certification and was in school to be a mechanic. It sucks that he'll be the type of person working on others' cars. We'll be pulling the valve cover off to take a look at the guides. Thanks again.
Thanks Pete really helpful video. I'm getting ready to replace mine, I didn't relize that I had to remove the oil pan.
Good information and steady camera work. Nice job. I shared this on Yotatech forum in a timing chain discussion.
Thanks buddy I have a 91 Toyota pickup truck with the 22re. This is exactly what is the matter with mine to the T. I believe its worth me doing the job since I bought it for $500 without a title, but got 1 in my name for it. This same thing happened when it had 85,000 miles on it and was fixed then but at 116,000 Mi I started hearing the BANGING in the top end once again. This was back in 2004 so I was discouraged and just parked it. I decided to pop the hood last weekend since one of my 4 children grew interest in it. I thought maybe I just had to adjust the valves, but once I took the valve cover off I found the broken plastic tensioner guide from the driver side laying down on my crank sprocket. WISH ME LUCK and thank you.
Thank you again good clear dialogue, very informative!
Thank you WheeliePete for the video!
It really helped me!
Thanks for the video, just purchased a 88' 4x4 toyota 22re..
wish i would have known to check this before i purchased it, anyways i went ahead and checked it out after the fact just for piece of mind, I was told the engine has been rebuilt 198k now.
Well after taking a look under the valve cover, it looks to have had the timing guides replaced so that definetly made me happy and now i have a little more piece of mind!
Informative video, thank you very much for taking the time to do it!
Really good quality audio and video. There's way to many shop guys shaking the camera around like a kite theses days. I have 03 Corolla 136,700 kms on it and replaced valve gasket with friends but now I find myself really wanting a Toyota 4x4. Will try to find one with this prob fixed though as my strengths are with body work, tires and oil change. You really know your stuff, Cheers from Ottawa!
thanks man. I have a 93 pickup with the same problem but could never figure out the problem. I always thought it was the rocker arms tapping. didn't know about the timing chain guide was made of plastic. lol n tnx for that website. now I can purchase one of thows metal ones.
Thanks Pete. This video was really helpful.
who are the bone heads that gives dislikes, this dude is doing a very good deed by fixing and video mortgaging video so you can learn. Thank you Pete.
Really love your Toyota videos! Doing this project now, and would love to see a good video on oil pan removal!
Wheelie, you rock dude. Thanks so much for the info big help! I check with you before my Hayes
Wow thanks at first i was thinking "forcing the chain on??? that's madness!! i gave it a little upward nudge and it slipped right on. awesome job man thanks agian
Pete, great video. I haven't seen the 22r engine yet and while looking for timing parts, it asked if was a belt or chain. At first looking at a picture of the engine on-line, i thought it was a chain (which it is), but the fact i was asked belt or chain made me doubted myself. But this video proved to me it was a chain and it has a problematic chain guide issue (very nice to know). Lastly, i've heard of the broken timing cover due to the hidden bolt, now i know which one to look out for.
keep up the good work.i have a 91 yota 4runner v6 5spd just got it a few months back it was a real nice little truck till the 4x4 quit on me.i haven't had a chance yet to look at it yet n figure it out but they are some tough trucks
Great video and clear explanation 👍
good vid bud you are dead on right about that 22r I have dealt with a lot of them!!!
Ted is a good guy.. Nice vid... Keep them coming!!
thanks for the upload. helped me alot
Thanks for the video. I knew there were problems with those plastic guides but haven't been able to find the metal ones at any local parts house.
Thanks a million far this information it will be a great help, that was what I needed I will be watching more of your videos.
you're a talented teacher
Thank you for the video, very informative.
Great video! Keep up the good work
thx for the tips, i dont' work on cars for a living, so i take your word for it. i only did the one about 8 years ago and it's still running fine. i just asked a few mechanics and they all told me to always CHECK and resurface resurface any aluminum head everytime you remove one... mine did need to be resurfaced... maybe i didn't remove it properly, don't remember. and by the way if you use TOYOTA oil filters YOU will avoid timing chaing problems on the long run......
great video i just got a 88 4x4 toyota and i have the same noise im going to pull the cover and check it out your video helped a lot thanks
Thank you, sir. You know, I've scoured the forums and not heard that answer given before. I like it. I'm going to look into this. I'm new to Toyota, but it's a sweet little truck and I want to do it justice. The rattling I'm hearing is not cyclical. It it ever-present, just louder at times, depending on the RPM's/vibration of the rig. If I hit that sweet spot before upshifting, while at high RPM's, it can drown out the radio and my thought process. Definitely an ugly metallic sound...
Nice video wp, I just aquired a rock buggy that is toy based and your videos are very helpful, and very well done, thanks WheelieP
thanks wheeliepete this vidoe help me alot...never thought bout the timing guide...i myself is trying to replace my head gasket cause coolant is coming in the engin... saw this video and what u know my timing guide is broken....im guessing that where the knocking noise come from lol.... thanks again...
Excellent bought a 1994 last night and I was wondering what that clicking noise was and now I know.
Great video man!!!!
Enginebldr is top notch. The timing kit is totally worth it.
and thank's so much for helping me out with this problem
Thanks a bunch, you are the man.
Wish i knew this much sooner. Now i need a rebuild.
(I got air tools bro...
Cost of the job has gone way up but this video is accurate. At 111k the death rattle has appeared and I have driven the truck 2000 highway miles with this problem but I am not rolling the dice any more. A broken chain on this can fatally damage the cylinder head Tomorrow it gets taken apart . The plastic guide has completely vanished on the driver's side
Both the crankshaft gear and the cam gear have marks on them that correspond colored links on the timing chain. You put the single bright link on the corresponding mark on the crankshaft gear and put the mark on the camshaft gear between the two bright links of the chain. It can be done if there are not marked links on the chain, but it requires more though to get it right.
Ha ha "it can be done with the vehicle in the truck". This cracked me up when I heard him say this.
Hi Larry, the 2RZ and 3RZ class of engines that are in the tacoma's are an entirely differernt animal. This video is for the 22R series engine class that were produced from 1979 - mid-1995 prior to the Tacoma's being introduced. But those 2RZ and 3RZ engines are great engines!
Thanks mate ,very useful
i am rebuilding a 1994 22re 4x4 and everything is done I'm just at the last part of the engine. originally was sitting for 10 ten years and so I'm fixing it for a friend and he said it needed new gas tank put in. so once new tank was in we started it and it blew white smoke so we took it apart to change head gasket but it turned out to be multiple issues. long story short its all done except for timing. we put new guides in along with both timing gears. with the haynes book it says to read the tag on inside of the hood to find the correct degree to set the cylinders at I'm pretty sure. but the tag isn't there because its an aftermarket hood with no tags and so it won't start but we slowly advance the timing but i was told that if u advance it too much it can potentially hurt the engine without knowing the right degree mark. but my friend said if it's an interference engine then u don't have to worry about it but i read some people say it is and it isn't. what degree is the timing supposed to be set at. then after that its a matter of adjusting the distributor. please help!!!
1998 Toyota 4x4 4cyl 5spd rated at 16 city 20 hwy. The auto rated the same, but had a 1mpg better in the combined. The 3RZ has waaaaaay more power than the old 22R series ever did and it's a great engine!
@WheeliePete Wow, all of those sound really pricey to fix.. Thank you WheeliePete, I'll jump on that this weekend.
Even though you said you heard a bit of knocking and then half way into the video you put everything back together and showed us how it sounded like, and also gave it a few revs. That engine sounds really good. When I rev my engine up it does not sound that good and it’s a 22re too. When I rev mine, I hear like a squeal down by the distributor, almost sounds like it’s coming from under the valve cover. And I also hear some ticking too. I replaced the distributor cap/rotor and wires and the engine is still cutting off on me while I’m driving like 40mph in the night time. Not sure what it could be but I’m going to check under the valve cover tomorrow
He never did replace the guides in that engine. It's still running and has over 300K on the clock now, still runs good, even with that busted guide flopping around on the driver's side...lol... No idea on you're engine cutting out at 40mph. That could be a lot of things but it's probably ignition related. I once had a chevy that would start cutting out and what that turned out to be was a cracked coil body that was allowing spark to occasionally escape out the side of the coil tower and ground to the block instead of going to the cap. If it's only happening at night that might also indicate ignition/electrical as your lights are on and the draw on the system is going to be at it's greatest. Electrical gremlins are the worst to chase...especially on old rigs...
Mine did the coolant/oil mix but I didn’t notice abnormal ticking or running rough beforehand. Idk how long it was mixed so I’m just replacing with a lower mileage 22RE, I’ll check the guides first
If you pull the head it's really easy to replace the stuff. If you unbolt the 22R series head correctly in a stepped sequence you can get away without having to resurface the head. Any time you remove material from the bottom of the head you shorten the distance between the cam and the crank as well as the piston / valve clearance. This can necessitate the use of an extra thick head gasket to set the distance back in spec.
OK... I had just gotten the milled head back, & new gasket in place and was ready to button this 22R up, after finding water in the oil. I came to You Tube to look for some tips about getting the cam gear back on the shaft, and found this one here... and had a look. When I went back to the rig and looked inside, found that broken guide in there... and I cussed a little, then pulled the head (no bolts yet) & gasket out, and removed the timing cover... and, yes-- a pain in the keister.
When I had it off and looked inside, there were two grooves- like a little track- running along the chain cover... right on the water pump housing! Looking in from that side showed me a very prominent little ridge... and, I believe, the Source of my problem (could have left the head & gasket alone, most likely). So NOW it's a new cover, new chain, new guides, gaskets, etc... and it's ALL YOUR FAULT! (Thanks, man!) ^..^
John Browne You only need to replace the timing cover if the chain managed to eat all the way through to the water jacket and water is leaking into the timing cover and then down into the pan. The problem with replacing the timing cover, is that if the block has ever been rebuilt and the surface milled the timing cover will be too tall and will need to also be milled to match the level of the block. When I rebuild a 22R series I bolt the timing cover to the block and have them mill them both at the same time (making them a matched surface.) The reason it's important to make sure the timing cover is dead level with the block is because the head overlaps the block and the timing cover and if the timing cover is slightly higher than the block you get a sealing issue at that joint which results in an oil leak at best or a blown headgasket. If you have to get a new timing cover, dry fit it to the front of the engine with no headgasket and then take a straight edge on the block and make sure the timing cover is dead level with the block's head gasket surface. If it's not, take a measurement and then have that much milled off the top of the timing cover. When you do go to put the head gasket on, it's always a good idea (no matter how perfect the fit) to put a little smear of RTV across that junction of the block and the timing cover before you put the gasket down. Keeps any oil from sneaking across that fitment line of the head and timing cover.
Great video, I have a 1986 toyota extra cab pickup with that engine. No problems yet except some minor oil leak, it has 124k miles on it, so I assume this will come soon.
@RAJSTA81 Yeah, the chain tensioner is hydraulically run off of oil pressure. I wouldn't worry about it too much if the rattle gows away that quickly. With the broken guides the rattle is pretty much always there (worse under deceleration.) If the prior owner never changed the oil the oil passages to the tensioner may be partially blocked and is making it take longer to build pressure to the tensioner.
great vid amigo
Excellent video, very well done and edited. One thing to note. If you're upgrading to a dual row or using a different cover then the one taken off the engine, then it's very, very important to ascertain that the height of the timing cover is exactly the same as the deck height. They are most likely taller, this is not good at all. Jim
Yep. This is why I tell anyone asking about rebuilding to make sure and send the timing cover along with the engine block for machining. If the block gets surfaced, the timing cover top edge needs to be matched to it.
Very informative. Thank you.
What about an engine squeal on startup on a 2001 2.4L Tacoma - that & when I step on it, it'll rattle some between 35-40mph & around 70mph - need valve adjustment?
$40 in 2014 with parts from eBay counting a revised front oil seal, use a 7mm thick seal instead of a sleeve or new pulley, BECK/ARNLEY 052-2144, it lets the new seal lip run 4mm farther back than the worn groove.
BTW, the chains can go 200k without a problem, it is random.
The only bad one I ever had made a much worse sound than loose valves, drove 10,000 miles and still managed to save the timing cover when I did change it.
i think this is the problem with my 84 Toyota Celica (165,000 mi). thanx for the vid
I wouldn't worry about it unless you start hearing something out of the ordinary. It's really pretty easy to pop the valve cover off and take a quick look which tell you for sure. The service interval on the single row chain is around 90,000 miles.
Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to make this great video WheeliePete. I’m a mediocre back-yard mechanic (at best), so I really like the idea of replacing my timing chain on my 2001 Tacoma (22rz-fe) without removing the head. Is there any ‘tricks/hints’ you could pass along about getting the Timing Chain Cover off without damaging the head gasket? Thank you --Larry
cool video man i just got a toyota.
i might have asked this before but is it necessary to remove the oil pan because on an 83 celica there is a sub frame right under the oil pan that the suspension is bolted to (lower balljoints) and the only other way i could think of is to lift the engine slightly to remove the pan which means i have to unbolt the engine mounts and probably loosen the tranny thats some work to change my timing chain
Thanks for all the info! I ordered the timing kit w/ oil pump from engnbldr Monday. One more question. You said in your video that replacing that guide without removing the head is kinda tricky. How so? I am going to try and do this Saturday and I just wanna make sure that I don't screw the head gasket up
well WheeliePete, I bought a toyota before seeing your vid. I popped the valve cover off today and the chain guide is half gone. I looked down the side of the case and it looks like the chain has cut a couple of grooves into it. It is not taking water, but I figured that I would ask to see what you thought. Should I go ahead and replace it and if you recommend that, what kit do you think I should order from engnbldr? I am also leaking some oil around the crank pulley so I need a redisleeve too
It can be difficult. Sometimes rolling the crank or the cam around a little to help get it back on. I've had some tight ones before. Sometimes a second set of hands can really help.
Great job.
When you take off the timing cover, you need to check and make sure the chain didn't rub a hole through that driver's side of the timing cover. There is a water jacket right in that spot and if the guide has completely broken off and the chain is slapping the side of the timing cover it can wear a hole through the cover and let oil into the coolant. If your billowing clouds of white smoke though, that mean's coolant is getting into the combustion chamber and you've got a blown head gasket.
The hot running could be because you have a air bubble locking the coolant circulation. Did you verify that the coolant is flowing through the radiator once the engine is warm? As for the 20 degrees advanced, is that with the distributor pushed all the way to the end of the adjustment slot? Is it where you can't get it to proper time no matter where you push it? (Continued next comment...)
If your valve adjustment keep creeping around it's because your rocker arm studs that you adjust the valve clearance with are old and are stretching when you adjust them. This really isn't that common, but it can happen. You'd have to buy new adjusting studs and locknuts. Get a set of go-no-go feeler gauges too, they work awesome. (The tip of the gauge is .006 and the next section is .008 which means if it slips in, but stops at the step, you have .007, I love those things for valve adj.)
I have a 88 Toyota pick up with a knocking sound and was wanting to find out if could be coming from the one of the piston sleeve. I've been told it has a similar sound to a valve or bad timing chain guide. I replace both chain@ guide being I was at that point [ old ones were in fair condition] replaces with new bolts @ torque as the manual recommends. Valves have also been checked. Any feed back would be help full, Thanks!
do u have to remove the oil pan cause in the celica it looks like u have to lift the engine just to get it off
i allso have another problem with my 2000 corolla. it has slow pick up on hills. when i got the corolla it had realy nice pick up. it would realy go but when i had a 02 sensor put on the pick up was bad. i have to hit the gas allmost to the floor just to get some pick up. do u think it could be the intake manifold gasket ??
Tough one to diagnose on the web. Is it rattling when you lock into gear (load) or between the shift (unloaded)? If it's under load check the timing and see if it's too far advanced (pre-detonation). The steel guide has a plastic/rubber face so it shouldn't be metal to metal contact. Another (scary) possiblilty is that the oil-pressure driven chain tensioner is binding if you over-torqued the bolts holding it on. They only get 14ftlbs, any more and it can torque the body and bind the piston.
My friend gave me his 84 Toyota pickup. I haven't looked in ther, because there hasn't been any rattling yet. If/when the rattling starts because of a broken plastic chain guide, could I use the metal ones from an older Toyota with a 22R? Or would I have to buy the aftermarket set?
I have a major knock on my 1986 Toyota sr5 it just happen yesterday..... mine lost power and the shut off and it seemed like the engine was seized would this be the cause of the knock
As long as it's not worn through I would run the original. One consderation about replacing the timing cover is that if you have surfaced the engine block before, a new timing cover may be taller than the engine block. This creates a big problem in that the head gasket will not seal properly if the timing cover is taller than the block. When you have a block surfaced you should have the timing cover bolted to it so they are match ground.
@RAJSTA81 I wouldn't go any thicker than 10W40 in the engine. That 20W50 is pretty thick stuff and is hard to pump. That's probably why the early rattle. You might have a leak in the vac lines to the vac advance diagphram. Not sure why the timing would be slipping. Maybe you don't have the hold down bolt tight enough on the distributor? It also might be time to block off all the EGR crap. That stuff really kills mileage when it starts to get old.
toyota oil filters have a check valve that prevents dry start ups, and that tensioner's oil fed, so if you have a crappy oil filter your chain will always slap on start up. i can notice the difference with a genuine toyota filter.. and by the way i didnt' put an exeptionally copious amount of sealant right where the timing chain/head/block meet, and yes i developped a tiny oil leak after a year, its not bad and it hasn't goten worse but it drips a bit. you got any tips to heal it?
There's enough room to loosen the oil pan to drop it down a bit I think. It's been a long time since I worked on the early Celica, but I think there is enough room ro R&R the oil pan without having to remove the sub-frame, either that or you can loosen the motor mounts and use a floor jack to lift up the engine from the lip of the transmission. You don't "have" to fully remove the pan, but it's a good idea if you have guide pieces down in it to get them out.
Great Job.
I have a 2000 celica gts that is making a knocking sound the strange thing is that it only makes it after the engine is hot, at idle and when I rev the engine up a little to about 1500 or a little less it goes away. Could that be the guide as well? Or what do you think it may be? Please let me know
continued from above... and if you don't find anything obvious, try replacing the knock sensor any way. When you do, disconnect the battery for a few minutes and let the computer totally reset, then go out and drive it at varrying speeds and let it reprogram. The good news is that there aren't "that" many sensors on a '94 22RE so you should be able to chase down the culprit. The knock sensor is there to detect pre-detonation, so you might try the next octane of fuel up also.
And don't forget to take out the hidden bolt in the puddle of oil under the distributor drive gear that pins the head to the timing cover. I've seen plenty of folks that forgot that one and snapped the timing cover trying to force it off after they think they've removed all the bolts holding the cover to the engine.
Um that was very very educating i wish i seen this 3 days ago. Well at least now i know.... bringing my tools next time lol
great video, the only thing, i wish you could hear the noise more, like you said it just sounds like valves
I talked to Ted at Engnbldr.com personally here in Portland and since I have the 1983 engine, I was only offered one kit, which had another all-plastic driver's side guide. I begged if there were a way to get a metal one in there, but he said all those kits would only fit the '84 or '85 (I forget which) and up 22r series. Once I saw this video, I knew I had to take off the valve cover and look down. Although my TCROD sounded different, I couldn't locate it's origin until I saw my broken guide.
I'm in the middle of changing out my broken guides now on my '94 4x4 DLX. Pulled the engine to make it easier and to reseal the leaky oil pan and give it a new clutch as well. I've cleaned the front of the block so much where the timing gaskets touch but I'm not sure if it's enough. Also been flossing brake cleaner on a paper towel between the head gasket and the head to try to get all the oil off of them so that I can apply some Ultra Grey on both sides of the head gasket right there on the front. Really don't want any leaks after this. Got a new Aisin oil pump to go on too, but so many parts to clean before they can go back on!
You don't need to put any sealer on the top or bottom of the head gasket. The proper head gasket has a rubber/silicone bead on the bottom side of the gasket, and that will seal the front of the gasket to the top of the timing cover. I used a Toyota factory head gasket, and it comes with the sealant bead on the bottom front of the gasket.
@NightHowl92 I can get it done in a Saturday (all day) by myself start to finish. Depends on how much time you spend cleaning stuff up and how careful you are. I'm a neat freak, and I will not tolerate oil leaks so I spend a lot of time cleaning old gasket material off and being meticulous. You also need to know what you are doing with Toyota stuff because you have that ENTIRE front of the engine torn apart. There's a lot of subtle knowledge that goes into that job.
Yes. Pull the valve cover off and look down in there and see if that guide is broken or missing (broke all the way off and fell to the oil pan...
Toyota recommends 90-100K replacement, not because of the chain, but the plastic guides. Even if the plastic guides are still intact, chain stretch at 208K will be substantial. As the chain stretches, the teeth of the cam and crank gears wear to match. I'd pull that thing out pronto and replace. If the chain breaks while the engine is running it will probably break the oil slinger casting in the timing cover.The 22R is a non-interference engine so a broken chain won't destroy your valve train.
Great video. My 94 recently started making a loud pinging noise under load and my friend thought it may be the timing chain. But wouldn't it make the sound always or would it do it just under load? Also the noise started right after turning on the heater, not sure if that was a coincidence. It does have 250,000 miles on it.
Thanks man!