Atheist Debates - Finding out you were wrong
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- Опубліковано 18 лип 2016
- Part of the Atheist Debates Patreon project: / atheistdebates
What does it feel like to find out you were wrong? Why is doubt discouraged? Why don't we encourage people for changing their mind for good reasons?
During my visit to the Dallas Fellowship of Freethought, I discuss this, and more.
The 3 most difficult things for a human to say are: 1. I was wrong. 2. I am sorry. 3. Worcestershire sauce.
“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
As an example of confirmation bias : I was once at a mountain viewpoint overlooking Banff. A convoy of Christians got out, joined hands facing the view and sang "How Great Thou Art." It was a harmless piece of communal activity, but it did make me wonder if the same party would stand at the edge of a malarial swamp and sing the same words. Call me a cynic, but I've always thought that such activities are akin to cherry picking.
Great example! It's definitely cherry picking, too. I would liken it to the example of a bus crash with a single survivor. They'll claim that it's a miracle and a result of god's good nature... all the while forgetting about the dozens of people he just killed.
Even in your nature example above - why should we thank god for mountains? Why thank him for any part of the Earth when we can't even inhabit 80% of it? Makes no sense.
The same thing should hold for a leper colony, a petri dish full of AIDS virus, a tsunami (as it crashes into land, of course), a tornado which smashes its way through (stereotype coming...) a trailer park, and any wild animal as it devours a camper.
I would encourage you to apply some of Matt's own wisdom in your current line of reasoning by replacing the characters/locations and focusing on the structure. You'll find that your logic is somewhat flawed.
A malarial swamp? You have no respect for the value of emergent wetlands.
tony bennett as another example of conf bias i watched an atheist video recently where nil evidence was being put forward for their united belief in evolution yet the atheists were clapping each other on the back metaphorically speaking and generally guffawing at the madness of those cretinous creatards who were stupid enough to see a Creator’s Handiwork across the earth. the atheists of course knew not the grace being extended to them in the gift of even their next breath or the gift of freedom of choice as they huddled together so blindly thinking they were free
"You can go on to the important things like catching Pokemon".
You may disagree with him on many things but hes right on this 100%
I've been advocating for years that we should teach: Reason, Logic and Critical Thinking in an Unbiased Manner that utilizes Proper Debate Tactics to improve knowledge and gain Wisdom
For thousands of years, superstition has dominated our thinking. It won't be easy & it won't be quick to get people to learn those things. I'm not so sure many of them are even capable of learning it.
That sounds great. Does this boost for Reason, Logic and Critical Thinking include criticism of the speculative, metaphysical claim that "All men are created equal"?
Many believe that these skills are the last thing that governments and marketers want people to learn. People with strong individual skills are very difficult to control on mass.
Changing your mind - also known as learning something.
by that standard i change my mind every single time there's a update to my brain, even standing around in a blank room teaches me what it feels like to be in that room on a secondly basis.
Throughout his speech, Matt had the concern to add a shy "perhaps" whenever he stated that "yes, *we* atheists are the correct ones". Considering what he has already explained (a million times) true atheism to be, that shy "perhaps" is actually needless. Sure, in a twist against all odds we could eventually find out that there really *is* a God out there, but that wouldn't make a difference. Being *factually* wrong is one thing; holding a wrong *position* is another... and the atheist position IS the correct one, *even* if a god turns out, one day, to be proven real. Remaining skeptic towards total lack of evidence is the right position, holding doubts when arguments are weak and suggest disbelief is the right position, staying an unbeliever until you've been totally convinced by proof is the right position! In short, atheism is the right position. Believing because it "feels" good inside or because a tradition of belief runs in your family and it would be disgraceful to cut away from it AREN'T examples of a correct position.
This is a fantastic point, and it is often glossed over. It's something that theists get wrong constantly: Merely being correct isn't the point. The whole purpose of reason is to provide accurate conclusions in robust fashion. When data changes, our conclusions change. Our current conclusions may be incorrect once new data comes to light, but that's beside the point. This failure is why Pascal's Wager continues to be popular despite being an empty nothing.
"The fact that you are willing to engage someone on an issue you disagree about, is a show of respect to the person", I loved that phrase, and I realize how true is it, recently found out that a group of people I use to talk with, are such closed-minded biggots, that I don't feel like talking to them anymore.
That said, some religious people don't give a flying horse about whether they're right.
(get it?)
There are people who literally cover their ears because they don't want to know.
I think that is because deep in side they have doubts and it's eating them out haha
This is my experience overall, I'm so hesitant starting a serious conversation with anyone around my age (27) because they simply don't care enough about whether those topics really affect their life any more than "oh well, you can't do anything about it" (mostly when it comes to politics) and "I just believe that and I think its positive so I won't talk about it" (mostly when it comes to religion/ideology).
People in my experience don't really care to be honest enough about their beliefs.
Oliver Cukor Oh no...
Junkass69 I had similar experiences. When it comes to religion, people think there is no way to prove either side right, so it's not worth discussing at all.
In politics it's a little different, where I live (Germany) because it's a smaller population so one vote counts more and our system is less corrupt and elitist.
They Have A Cavetroll, We have to do it for ourselves. I was a believer and just had to be open minded enough to look at the evidence (and later accept it) against the Bible, and even for the existence of a God. Most of the time, when we debate with theists, it's just an intellectual exercise for both atheist and theist, with no real positive outcome, other than we get better at arguing. LOL!
Wow, this is easily one of my new favorite videos. I was actually disappointed when it ended. You did a great job of conveying some deep principles in a very concise and inspirational way
I totally agree. Fantastic!
It's one of those times I wish I could hit the like button twice
That's Matt for you
Annet Quintana thank you for sharing this video with me. it changed my life. Bless you.
Annet Quintana I'm upset when most of his videos end
"...More important things like catching pokèmon..." lmfao!!
It's a shame that shit is still popular. Goes to show how intellectually-stunted kids and young adults are in this new millennium.
@@JanetStarChild Why is it so bad?
@@JanetStarChild lolwhat Pokemon is a fairly complex game with a lot of interesting mundgames to play. I rly don't see your point here :p
Knowing is an absolute. Understanding is the goal. The fun thing about understanding is it can always be refined.
Elmo is enthralled by your speech.
I LOVE discovering when I'm wrong : It means I learn something new. I am very cautious with my concepts and I try not to hold to hard to them; I don't want to be too attached to ideas just in case I'm misinformed. As a defense I'm also very, very cautious and skeptical, being thorough with research, looking at many sides of discussions and careful to accept claims.
What a great discussion. There's a lot of important stuff packed into this little half hour lecture.
Thanks for making and posting this, Matt!
Excellent presentation Matt. I discovered The Atheist Experience about 3 years ago, admittedly after I realized that I was an atheist. And yet, while it didn't make me come to that realization, what you, and others like you, do has been so cathartic to the point of being therapeutic in softening the blow I felt from reality. People like you, Tracie Harris, Jen Peeples, Michael Shermer, AC Grayling, Hitch, Seth Andrews, Dan Barker, David Silverman, AronRa, Anthony Magnabosco and others have been instrumental in my transition and confidence in critical thinking, rationality - simply being, in general. I just wanted to say thank you.
That's a very lengthy way of saying that this is one of my favorite lectures you've ever given. Keep up the great work. I hope to find the way in which I too can most positively help the cause.
Cheers.
-Jon
Thanks for the video Matt!
Every single (current) believer I have ever talked to recognizes that they do not care about truth. They care about comfort, about beliefs that lead to good deeds, beliefs that make them *feel* good -- and which must be true because they are preferred. And feeling good about the belief is good enough. Believing that they can win the lottery is good enough to buy a lottery ticket, even if the probability of not winning is null. For most people, true beliefs really do not matter and they are not willing to be convinced otherwise.
you told the truth ""beliefs that make them feel good"" and disregard other humans feeling / needs to survive . In the end its all about ME and some family member's and screw you all.
Thanks for another video Matt! These videos really help me think through my own thought process and how I engage others and their thought process.
P.S.
When I was a freshman in college a street preacher yelled at me "Are you saved!?" and that was the first moment I remember questioning my Christianity. I find it ironic the path to where I am now started with someone trying to convert college students.
Brian Stevens wow that IS actually situational irony
This honestly made me feel really good to watch. Matt is amazingly profound and knows what he wants to say. I think one of the best parts of this video is that it's applicable in so many ways. It doesn't really offer up any contentious or debate topics. It's a talk about people and our thoughts and beliefs in a general sense, and I appreciate that kind of presentation. I wish I had found this sooner.
I can not express how thankful I am for your great intellect ! You are the primary factor in my leaving the delusion of the christian faith after serving 35 years in it. I can not find one aspect of your discussions that I disagree with, and when I share your videos on various websites, no one will engage me with a good discussion on my post but am met with ridicule and marginalizing. As I have mentioned before in comments, I now feel like I am truly born again, not to a religious belief, but to a new open mind way of seeing things as they really are outside of religious doctrine under the control of pastors and clergy who are propagandists of a book that is proven to be nothing more than a story book. I took on the challenge of the god of the bible in the book of Malichi where this loving god threatens to rub shit on peoples faces - 2:3, 3:10 where he asks to be tried and yet in the new testament we are warned not to test the lord, and most of all 3:6 where this god says he does not change and yet in examining all of the story book there is nothing but changes made to suit whatever the situation demands. I had to reread the book as if it were a novel and now put it on the shelf as just another classic novel. I have more belief in the writings of Charles Dickens because there is historical proof of the things he describes at that point in history of the society in England and common practices of the people of that time period. Thank you so much and note that you have freed me from the chains of my delusion.
thank you for sharing
17:31 This guy. Just imagine, he has a life just as vivid and complex as everyone else's, yet he is just visible for a second or two in the background. He might have struggles in life we cannot even imagine. Why did he feel the need of passing behind Matt during this presentation? A tiny distraction which is hardly noticed and at the same time a real person with real goals trying to accomplish something we may never find out. Perhaps it was just me watching this who was caught with a deep feeling of sonder for him - a realization that he has a life outside of my own, complete with his own thoughts, feelings and emotions. And you know what? I do as well. I have a story longer than any book, and so do everyone whose existence is merely represented by a tiny upvote next to a random comment. Thank you for reading my tribute to the vastness of the unnoticed.
that truly is a miracle. i think i am converting to christian now.
This is probably one of your best talks. Fantastic!
This was my first time seeing Matt, and was so glad he came to Dallas. I wish it lasted longer and that was time for Q&A. Next time hopefully. Matt...you are always welcome back to Dallas!
Last time I was this early there were only five loaves of bread and two fish.
😂😂
MrDigztheswagking dude, I forgot I wrote this comment, actually funny as fuck!
Harley smith hell yeah amen
😁
I would go see this guy talk every sunday, if I could.
better than a child molester pastor lol
Thanks, Matt! Very timely. Getting people to value doubt and the merit of changing minds is so challenging. Shared this to my Fb page
u r on way to graveyard. why do u allow satan to use u to oppose and fight for nothing to gain or reason to do so
We are all on our way to the graveyard. As for Satan- I don't believe in Satan. I'm sure you probably know that. What I gain from promoting science and rationality is that I care about the welfare of the planet and of mankind. Also, I see religious views not grounded in evidence to be indoctrination and deception.
Thank you for giving me logical ways to adapt what I think and to discuss differences in what others think. great lecture.
Did elmo fall asleep with his mouth open in the background? He must have had a hard day of counting, and finding words that start with A....capital A, that is.
that is what u say bc u know that he is right and u are wrong
@@harryhoran7398 Thank's for explaining to me what I meant, since this was three years ago and I'm not sure what I meant. I can't read my own three-years-ago mind, but I think I might have meant that Elmo is a cute character from a children's television program that teaches kids to count and spell and it is cute that it looks like he (a tuckered-out Elmo) fell asleep in the background. I'm thinking capital "A" may have referred to capital "Atheism", but I'm not sure, and I'm not going to rewatch the video to find out. Is that what is meant about what I meant; who "he" refers to and why I am wrong? Thanx for playing.
@@DoorknobHead cult
@@harryhoran7398 That's not a word that starts with "a", not alone a CAPITAL "A" --- try again. #BeLikeElmo
i think you should tackle islam sometime. I see a lot of muslim apologists
That was an excellent speech Matt.... probably the best yet!
It's a great 'bigger picture' presentation, rather than getting stuck in the specifics of a nuance's argumental topic.
Thank you sooo much for these videos Matt! Very useful videos, good job bro!
they are joke look at comments its just his loser fanboys he is nazi the guy tries to say women dont get same pay lol sure when we no they get more and get more breaks and matt is pile of shit far far left nazi lies about trans issue and well being is joke only in his head well being yes for persons self not how matt lies makes it sound . this guy is joke its why he has lost 80% of his fanbase because his far left hate groups he likes feminism blm and only reason he voted for hillary the scummiest person on planet was she head a vagina he is scum bag and i am happy his talks are non exsistant now days so he has to make videos for the same nazi like him .
I wish my epiphany was more profound but it honestly comes down to one word. Dinosaurs. I always knew they existed but the mere fact that they did, at least to me made me question why a god that “made us in his image” would need to make dinosaurs first and that thought made my catholic upbringing incompatible with the truth. I know it’s not profound but that’s the first step that took me down this road to atheism.
That you were willing to take in new information then take a critical look at your existing beliefs to see if they matched reality shows a lot more insight than 90% of the population.
It makes me really sad to say that. I actually agree it shouldn't be profound. It should be mundane ("oh, there's this clear evidence that means my former belief can't be true so I will drop that belief"). But it's not - so many people aren't capable of doing this!
Birds?
"Birds?"
Birds evolved from dinosaurs, but they exist today (and are generally much smaller than us) so aren't incompatible with a worldview that says humans are the reason the entire universe was created.
Dinosaurs were around millions of years before humans. If God wanted a special relationship with just us humans, why create a universe so vast and fill it with significant creatures for millions of years before creating humans?
@@JohnSmith-fz1ih "Whatever God does, He does for the best" - Rabbi Akiva
"N****, please!" - Ol' Dirty Bastard
"Sneeze" therfore god.
"Cough" therefore god.
nice name....
Hi Matt, I love your shows, you are definitely one of more eloquent speakers out there with a strong logic. As another ex navy, I can relate somewhat to your experience and I could totally point out a bunch of guys like that who used to be my coworkers. Maybe they get to see the light one day as well. Anyway, I'm glad to hear your story, you're doing a great job.
Very well done. Thank you for an excellent post.
truth hurts as they say. Religious people don't want to accept reality.
I would say it's embarrassing to find out you're wrong about some of the big issue items. I try not to see theists as stupid, they're not. I do find however that a lot of them lack education in the sciences. Their vocabulary with regards to scientific language and usages are often severely lacking. I'm guessing that, to avoid confronting head on that which contradicts their cherished beliefs, they avoid learning science and the language of science.
If you want to see what I mean watch Aron Ra talk to people at the Ark Park in Kentucky the other day. He's talking to a couple of believers about evolution of all things and most of it is going straight over their heads. They lack the language skills to understand a lot of what he's saying. Not because their stupid, not because they can't learn but because they avoided learning that which makes them uncomfortable.
You have to break it down into what they do know, what they do understand. Analogy may be a fallacy but it often helps in cases like this.
We should be cautious in assuming what others are capable of. The lie that we are all equal is no where evident. If you go back and listen to Matt's first call into TAE, you may notice that he was Matt back then too. Listening to many religious folk, I wonder if they could have ever acquired a much better vocabulary. Actually, I'm starting to think most people do "need" religion because it may be what they claim it is: a moral prescription for people who cannot figure it out themselves.
I know we think everyone is so special. But humans are monsters, and most are not as bright as the culture the bright ones built may have us believe. We are not all the same and culture is not completely separate from biology (where did that idea come from)?
It's not just their vocabulary. That can sometimes be a problem, yes. However, the glazed look coupled with the smile means (as Aron put it in another vid) that they have just tuned you out and are waiting for you to finish your sentence so they can interject a diverting unrelated point or question.
Analogies are ok sometimes, but they can be dangerous if not used properly. That's partly where we get the Michael Behe story of thinking the flagellum is actually a motor, when it's not.
Short attention span can be due to the approach of the atheist when explaining, too. Too aggressive, and the theist will just shut down. Too cerebral, too. The Socratic method is ok because it keeps the theist alert to answer questions, but it takes a long time sometimes to get the foundation laid before you can actually present a point that shakes their thinking. Explaining science is hard work, even to willing subjects!
Glen Hill Good points. Humans have the best opportunity (regardless of fluid intelligence) when they are mentored by other smart humans early on. Rarely happens, especially if you are surrounded by especially intellectually impoverished people from Day 1.
+Glen Hill you are not familiar with The Atheist Fallacy - Atheists only use the weak, faith based anecdotal or discredited evidence that made them atheists, to identify God. They reject the extraordinary scientific peer reviewed evidence that the laws of nature and forces of physics compose the supreme reality as in the creator, evolver, maintainer & ruler of the universe - God. In other words, atheists define every non-god out of obsolete ungodly books like the bible & koran as a God and define the real God verifiable through science as a non-god. The true Deity is consistent with naturalism, skepticism, reason, logic & realism.
ungertron if you mean something along the lines of the fine tuning argument, have you considered this: No mater how unlikely it seems that we are here, we are here, and for us to be here things had to go the way they did. Fine tuning is making an assumption anyway, that things like natural laws even could be anything other than what they are. This undeniable reality does not even take into account theoretical models and possibilities like a Universe that oscillates (over billions of years) or a plurality of Universes (what has been called the Cosmos). No astronomer today worth their salt thinks the Universe was created by a being, but that is not what atheism means. Atheism mean "I do not believe in YOUR god idea." We are all atheists for every god we do not believe in. If you are a deist and think a god created everything but maybe is not involved now, well, you simply assert a being must have existed outside of time and space in order to create it. That is just a blind statement with no logical connections. Does that means a being from space and time must have created a being outside of space and time? No, neither makes any sense and nobody knows what outside of reality or space and time means. Nobody knows. Not you. Definitely not you. It may not mean anything, just be a silly sentence. Like god making a rock so heavy he can't lift it. It is just a logical mess that makes no sense. AND, big bang cosmology states that before the expansion everything was super compact, it says nothing about a time before time, you guys make that part up. Again - what if it is oscillating? What if it popped into here from somewhere else.
And I guess biology is too mysterious for you too, huh? Magic man must have rubbed dirt together and created life, yea? And evolution never happens, all the time, this very moment, since the first RNA-like molecule formed under those impossible to imagine conditions? Right?
Do you think you are some kind of intellectual. How dare you use the word science, sir! Do spell it with a P until you respect it.
Very good video Matt, keep up the good work!!
The stigma against changing -- 'flip flopping' -- has to stop. You're doing a good job reversing the stigma Matt
Well said! Imagine if the scientists who discovered HIV were accused of flip-flopping when they realized that it wasn't a 'gay' disease.
I want the opposite. I want my internal model of reality to be as false as possible which is why I'm typing into a giant banana split right now. Now excuse me, one of my seventeen wives want to take me on a unicorn ride in gumdrop land.
That sounds like a euphemism worthy of a 3 paragraph definition on urban dictionary.
***** Go away and stop talking to me you giant plate of hot nachos and cheese sauce. I'm busy slaying another dragon right now.
vernonclassic Poe's law is a bitch right? :) No, in fact I'm a very skeptical person. I thought the name would give it away. I'm actually a huge fan of Matt Dillahunty.
vernonclassic Cool. For me the big one was actually George Carlin. I deconverted about 25 years ago. This was before The God Delusion came out and before the internet. Back then atheism wasn't something that was talked about in the media a lot so I wasn't really even aware of it. I did have cable though and George Carlin did that bit about how God sends you to hell but he still loves you. That's what really got me thinking. I thought "How is that possible? God can't love you and allow you to go to hell.". Then I stayed in the closet for a while because my parents are very religious. I still had to spend some time in youth group at church and Jesus camp. That was a bummer.
vernonclassic That is true. Many atheists don't fully understand the burden of proof. They just know they don't have it. The assertion that God does not exist is a claim though and it would be subject to the burden of proof. I think that in most cases when you hear that it's just for the sake of expediency though. Depending on the situation. One should never say that to their interlocutor though.
Unless, of course that is your position. It still could be a mistake but some atheists do take the position that God does not exist.
I don't care to try to convert anyone...I just wish they'd show me the same courtesy. Personal beliefs should remain personal; it's not like you can truly articulate something like "God's love" or a "religious experience" anyway. Why get together with a group of humans in a building with pretty windows to listen to a guy talk for 2 hours on Sunday? Maybe that's the autistic part of me, lol. I just don't get the social part of religion & all the weird rituals. I don't like all the judgment & evangelizing.
You come into the world alone & will die alone. If there's a God, you'll stand before him/her alone. You don't get brownie points for winning souls but for being a genuinely good person yourself. Too much of religion is focused outward, not on selfless helping of others but on judging & condemning. IF you're going to believe in a higher power, at least use it to better yourself & the world with no hidden agenda.
ur exactly right
I love your authenticity and transparency
Nice work Matt. Great talk.
EmbraceRationality
REJECTtheSupernatural
◎※E-PLURIBUS-UNUM※◎
2:40 To them I would say "How could you possibly look at a *stillborn* baby and come to your conclusions?"
_I don't have many friends._
...quality over quantity...especially in friendships...1 quarter is still worth more than 24 pennies...
Excellent points, Watched all of it
Well put together speech Matt!!
Last time I was this early... Jesus was still in his cave.
PRAISE THE ELMO
Last time I was this early, Judas was still alive.
unless sun stop shining, earth stop rotating... how arrogant and ungrateful can people get to be taking of, while think the caregiver is not caring for them or he is dead
FiniteAutomaton it is so supportive, even u live as creator, when u need purpose to be maintain and created.
not dead, non existant.
can't say babies are perfect in any way... they seem very much like unfinished humans
I know. Babies shit their pants. How is that "perfect"?
At what age is a human "finished?"
Coy Hampton when they can properly eat and shit without making a mess
vernonclassic no, then they are broken ^^
excellent vid :) definitely saving this to share
Kudos. Well said, Matt.
I don't know Matt, how does it feel to be wrong?
#joking
I'm donating to your patreon tomorrow. You're one of very few speakers in tune with reality. This talk seemed very abstract for what I'm used to hearing from you. I think it was a great spread of topics with good transitions between their relations. You go back to connect to the overall subject a number of time and in a way I haven't seen you do. Overall, a great message with an excellent control of your tone throughout, and the complexity of the structure was something I've yet to hear from anyone. This is a great recipe for an approach Matt. Keep developing this mojo.
I think you've been speaking with a professional or just fairies.
Watching again, I think it really helps that you're very familiar with what you're talking about. Your preparation techniques must be boss. I'm guessing you must find a lot of errors this way too. You've come along way as a speaker. Now if only Ham would give you 5!
great video Matt.
I like how Matt focuses on the nature of truth and the merits of pursuing it in the most efficient way possible.
Thank you very helpful video for someone like me that can get competitive in those sort of debates
Mr. Dillahunty... Wow!!
This was rt on time, for me & honestly one the best "talks" I heard in the past while! Phenomenal👌
I appreciate the shit outa ya, as I'm sure, so many do.
-fellow Humanist
Great video and spot on
Hi Matt - Thanks for everything you do. You were a big influence while on my path to rational, skeptical thinking.
u r on way to graveyard. why do u allow satan to use u to oppose and fight for nothing to gain or reason to do so
Actually, I'm on my way to lunch. As a side note, your videos are BIZARRE NONSENSE. I can't tell if you're a poe or not. hahaha
yolanda jerginson not be able to know the obvious like creation therefore creator, is not enough, now u don't even know who is a troll
Good to know. Thanks! Poe's Law in action...
"CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST" - Could you be wrong about Satan using him and him being on his way to a graveyard?
Matt is such an engaging speaker.
Good video. Thanks.
Good video that raises a lot of points while still remaining relatively neutral towards specifically what worldview is true.
THIS IS WHAT ATHEISTS BELIEVE.
For real though, this felt more like what a sermon should feel like than any religious sermon ever felt like for me. After listening to this, I feel more hopeful, inspired, empowered, and armed with fresh new insight.
Great talk. I think that a lot of the stigma associated with changing one's mind is based in fear. Along with certainty comes a strong sense of security and even if one realizes that it's misguided, that security can still be extremely compelling and almost addictive. Adding a fight or flight response to the cognitive dissonance that already comes when one realizes that one is holding an inaccurate belief, especially a strongly held belief, could easily make one desperately continue to cling to that inaccurate belief, even in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
I think this is happening in the Man-made AGW movement.
Good points. for many people, being wrong is tantamount to losing one's citizenship, access to chocolate, and the remote control forever and cannot be tolerated. I admit it is painful at times, but it it through mistakes we learn the most.
Murphy Jacobs I think you nailed it.
"Stigmata"
Very well said!
I like your stuff Matt :)
I love you Matt!
Excellent
Excellent video. I cannot trust a belief system that cannot learn from History or from its own mistakes.
Yes we are the Enlightened ones....
I think I see a No True Scotsman declaration here.
I am just beginning to explore all this information, but this talk about being wrong or right is something I've thought about for years, especially in online discussions and debates. Thanks for the thoughts!
I never assumed I was infallible, so it never bothered me to find correct answers which contradicts my tacit assumption. Only being ridiculed for my incorrect ideas bothered me.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” Ernest Hemingway
what you call noble means nothing we all have what we see as noble and mass murderer thinks it noble to not falter from his sick path . that philosophical shit is joke for losers who just want to jerk off there brain and accomplish nothing it why philosophy is garbage and joke and never done anything but make shit up
You get use to finding your wrong when you get married.
Loved the video. I am surrounded my people who do not understand 'objective' and I am pulling my hair out.
The sad thing is, this goes even deeper than Matt describes. Not only is there stigma attached to being wrong, but I've experienced environments in which it is actively discouraged to tell people they are wrong since you are seen as a know-it-all (this happened a lot to me in school) and debating positions is considered rude, so even when you try to tell people: "hey if you think i'm wrong on something i would want you to let me know and explain why", they think you're still trying to prove something or you just want to start an argument to annoy them when in fact you just want to get to the truth and the only reason you correct people is because you are doing the exact same thing you would want done to you if you were in their position.
People will always hate you more for being right than they ever will for being wrong.
Value being correct over being right.
I get schooled debating, I take it as a learning experience, growth.
Makes me think.
I thought I was the only one. Damn. This is a sign of the Apocalypse.
"Correct" is a much better word than truth.
While I can track my proto-atheism to my first experience with pointed religion in 1st grade, where I felt it was not important to me, it took a few years more to distill the heathen juice. I went to Christian schools through high school but (lucky for me) religion was relegated to religion class with no tendrils in science or math. At 12 my class went on a retreat to a local monastery where on Sunday, during mass, the priest touched in me a magical chord when he asked about our knowledge of transubstantiation. When he established that no one in our group had foreknowledge of the term he went on to define it. His next words ring in my years these 44 years hence. He said, "How many know that not believing in the literal truth of transubstantiation is a sin?" Those words hit me like a sledge and i guffawed vocally. This experience set me irretrievably down the atheist sidewalk and by 15 I began calling myself an atheist. I recall defending my non belief in high school and college to other students who would say things to me when I refused to go to mass like: "You only think god is not there for you" and, "Why do you hate god?" I would respond by saying atheism is not a philosophy, adding that I would never say gods do not exist; rather, there is no evidence for them. Years later I would hear famous atheists like Matt D and Dawkins echo my thoughts and for the first time in my life I felt the glimmering of a community! Thank you Internet!
As a weather forecaster, I have learned how to be VERY GOOD at being wrong :)
I just thought of something hilarious. William Lane Craig says that the reason Hell goes on forever is because the sinning goes on forever. But that's like saying that a judge is sentencing me to ten years in prison even though my crime only warrants five years because he knows I'm going to commit more crime after I get in prison.
The whole idea of sin is so bizarre and ridiculous. So this God created this world in six days and he was happy with everything and then he created Adam and Eve and then he decided to be sneaky and said hey you guys I have you this paradise but I'm gonna test you to see if you can make it. Kinda like some bad naked and afraid survivor reality tv show episode. So of course they were naughty so god got mad and made them out their clothes on as humanity expanded people just got worse and worse, they just couldn't stop sinning. So god picked his chosen few to stop that shit and killed everyone else regardless of whether they were even capable of sinning or not and have them another chance to procreate (and continue to sin of course) and so on and so on ... I guess god just couldn't get those nasty humans behave no matter what ... You'd think by now god would give up and pick another planet and said fuck it but no he still cares about what we do with our penises behind the closed doors.
Matt, what do you think about doing some kind of exercise with kids in school where they intentionally say something untrue and are then corrected in a friendly manner by some peers. Then they correct themselves and thank the others for correcting them. Then the others clap or do something to show appreciation for their ability to change their mind.
I'm thinking maybe it will desensitize them to the negative emotions felt when realizing that they're wrong.
The bit about the blackboard is something I never quite got. Intellectually I understand it, but when I was in school? Do you know how boring it is to wait for someone else to volunteer? That was hell. I would answer the questions, I would answer them promptly, and then we'd go back to learning instead of waiting for someone to raise their hand.
10:00 to 11:00 is the single best spot
"You wIll even get in conversations where you've got somebody cornered, and they will get down to the point where they question the fabric of reality and reason itself": 14:49 . I think he is referring to Sye Ten Cate: how do you know that how do you know that how do you know that etc.
My friend Claudio Alejandro Ruffo Torres and I had a debate and when I cornered him he said he wasn't a Theist then said that Theists don't have to believe in God but God just needs to be the most probable answer. I had never heard that Theism was just based on statistical probability and was not a true believe in anything.
Matt - apologies if you've covered this before - what are you favourite books based on rational thinking, religious or otherwise. It would be interesting to see those books/thinkers you find essential. Cheers!
Matt, great video.
You alluded to political views we can have our minds changed on.
May I ask who your presidential candidate of choice is? I completely understand if you can't by the way.
Anyone who wants to believe as few false things as possible could not possibly support Donald Trump, and Matt did not.
I was brought up on no religion mostly apart from visits to my grandmother (and religious chants and songs at primary and a somewhat catholic school that taught little of catholic ideals) and rejected my grandmothers prayers and blessings each night even though they were well meaning and she did never invite the idea of hell herself but somehow it became apparent in my mind but wasn't so indoctrinated by my family personally... that it was pretty easy to dismiss the idea over time... the thought I was evil or something was wrong with me did to some extent was inserted somehow as I think the society as a whole has some insertions of religion. Being a kid you really absorb things without even realising which is why whether it religion or whatever should be taught in a non bias way in showing it's benefits to read and not just to debate but to read for better insight of the world around us. when religion is a part of a community the irrational ideas trickle out throughout that population... we have to look into how we get those of all ranges of intelligences (people have spatial intelligences and artistic etc) to grasp outside the concept of their own beliefs and figuring they could be wrong and nothing is 'wrong' with being wrong as such and put those defenses down. I don't think I have great intelligence or the best of backgrounds but I know a great speaker when I hear one.
I slowly rejected my nans prayers/blessings then voiced them at 11 year's old that I did not want to do this any more... she was often blessing my father that was never there but never explained his absence yet she was his doting mother. she meant well and she started when I was younger and don't remember everything consciously we did together that was religion related... I am sure she would have inserted many thoughts there without a realisation from me but she had good intentions... as I got older though it was apparent to me my father was not close and hadn't a close family attachment to anyone blood related
A lot of people will never admit when they're wrong. It's actually pretty annoying.
a good thing (like when you do math) - a unthinkable thing when it comes to your highest truths, which you want to have and you want them to be high, with them being true being neat-yet optional, as many coexisting religions prove in evidence.
"I didn't say that." --Matt Dillahunty
I was a forced theist then became a deist then atheist then agnostic then atheist again. Life is a continuous studying and learning process :)
lol, i threw out my limbaugh books a few years back...opened up an old box and was like 'yikes' when i those two books. my college years embarrassment that i thankfully outgrew.
2:20 It was witnessing *this* that shoved me forcefully straight out of religion. I was questioning for years, but witnessing the sheer *irrationality and deceit* on full display with apologists made me want to hit them over the head until the stupid came out. Mental acrobatics unlike anything I had ever witnessed. Never actually attempting to _answer questions_ so much as, as he puts it, "protect that irrationality from being exposed." 22:29 Basically that, but with people like you showing the contrast.
I really tried to "see both sides" for those years, but increasingly, consistently, 100% of the time, found that one side _was completely full of shit._
You'd be surprised how many people actually dont care about the truth. Many care more about how perception or their "truths" may benefit their lives. And a lot consider wishful thinking to be truth (i.e religious people banking on an afterlife, or a child who stole something watching another get punished for it, or all the people that make excuses for their politicians).
I was in the military until my 40s then read about evolution & philosophy. Bam atheist in a week. 20 yrs ago.
I'm usually wrong, so I automatically assume most things I believe are wrong. That's probably because of my upbringing, though.