Atheist Debates - What Baptists Believe
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- Опубліковано 3 кві 2018
- Part of the Atheist Debates Patreon project: / atheistdebates
While antique shopping, I came across a small book titled "What Baptists Believe and Why They Believe It"... There's just no way I wasn't going to buy this book, read it and address it here. Enjoy.
Sunday school teacher to class: "Can anyone tell me about the eternal resurrection?" "Yes , Donna, you had your hand up?" Little Donna, "After four hours call a doctor."
Gotta love Matt’s shit eating grin when he knows he’s pissed someone off. I could listen to him all day long and never get bored!
Kendall Hopkins he is good
I like your first name. :-) But, Matt is definitely very knowledgeable!
Kendall A I like yours too! 😂
taledarkside Wtf?
Also I love Don Baker's laugh....he has no qualms laughing at dopey callers
The circular reasoning is ultimately inescapable.
“Why do u believe X?”
Because I have faith
(Meanwhile the word faith just means “I really believe X”)
How the fuck did you manage to make this comment 6 days ago when the video has just been uploaded 9 minutes ago?
Pete Jones secret
@Pete Jones
"the video has just been uploaded 9 minutes ago
Unfounded assumption! XD
Keith X 😂😂
Simple savings Australia
As an exmormon I find it fascinating that both Babtists and Mormons have a persecustion complex. We believed that other people being mean was proof of the truthfulness of "the gospel"
CES it's in the bible! Look at Matt's video on the Beattitudes
CES It help to promote the religion.
CES
You're a shit speller.
Since you're not a Mormon anymore, I guess this observation doesn't prove Mormonism to be true.
Pretty much every religion has a persecution complex. The reason is actually interesting. Because they "believe" in a thing through, admittedly, faith, they know that what they say they believe is actually without foundation. They already know they have no "reason" to believe what they do. By default, then, they know they are being "un-reasonable". Impossible to defend, therefore any questioning is taken very personally. In other words, they are arguing with themselves, are losing, and know it.
"Don't look for signs or portents." Just see everything as a sign or portent, and you don't have to look. %-|
Whenever someone tells me what a specific Christian denomination believe the first question I ask is, "So how does that set you apart from most Christian denominations?" It gets a little annoying how it seems like they all make an effort to blend into each other. "We believe in the bible." Okay, that's what Jehovah Witnesses will tell you, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, SDAs, etc. They all seem to spew the same language whenever they want to tell you about what they believe.
So basically: "They're are wrong because we say so, therefore we're right."
Stefan Travis Well, if your basis is in the bible, and you can successfully cite that your doctrine is rooted in the bible and another sect's doctrine isn't, you can make a good case that your doctrine is more 'true'.
Like the Westboro example, no one ever really goes after their beliefs with biblical objections, because if you assume the bible is true, then they are (mostly) correct.
_"if your basis is in the bible"_
The basis is never the bible. The bible is always the excuse.
If you ever decide to set up an abrahamic-style religion, you'll need a long, unclear and incoherent book - one that's so tedious almost no-one will read it to check, that you can pretend to "discover" your doctrines in.
Stefan to my ears "basis" and "excuse" amount to the same thing. It's just word play.
_""basis" and "excuse" amount to the same thing."_
Basis goes before. Excuse comes after.
If scripture were the basis of doctrine, churches would be popping up all the time, focusing on biblical passages with no applicability to modern concerns. There'd be a sect obsessed with not eating shellfish, another that sells its daughters into slavery, and a third that preaches against putting old wine into new wineskins.
What we actually see is the prosperity gospel invented during a recession, mysogenistic doctrines reacting to women gaining power, and end times cults when war seems imminent. Or the year ends in three zeroes.
+Stefan Travis "The basis is never the bible. The bible is always the excuse."
I disagree. I've heard plenty of ex-christian atheists say that they had to reexamine beliefs about homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, attitudes toward other species, gender equality, etc., because of the negative things they'd been taught about such things as a christian.
I was raised in a Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church and I was always taught that Southern Baptists were liberal people because they had no problems with rock music, women wearing pants and dancing.
Cody Peck - Women wearing pants seriously? I am not sure if I should be amused or shocked that women wearing pants was still an issue. I mean to come up with the idea and all powerful god would care about the clothing is weird.
Hence the reason Baptists can’t make love standing up.
Yep same here
One downvote? Must be a Pentecostal.
27 now!!
30 pentecostals later (in SpongeBob narrator voice)
This was interesting. I was also raised in a southern Baptist church and was taught all that nonsense. I can remember when I was around 13 reading (I think it was in the front of a hymnal) the Baptist Creed. It was a few paragraphs long and supposedly stated what you must believe to be a Baptist. I was immediately stunned to realize I didn't believe much that was listed there and ergo I must not be a real Baptist somehow. Never told anybody that but it did bother me for a long time. I also enjoy looking for religious books at thrift stores and one day came across a two volume set of The First 1,000 Years of Christianity that was written in 1936. Very interesting reading as I learned quite a bit about the early mystery cults of christians and the spread of it throughout Europe and Ireland, etc. That reading spurred me on to more research. It was Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth and reading up on ancient mythologies that removed the notion that any religion had/has any veracity coupled with my love of science and David Attenbough's nature specials.
Matt you are so inquisitive, that is why you are so knowledgeable. Love listening to you
Fantastic. As an ex-Mormon, ex-Seventh Day Adventist and ex-Anglican ( Church of England ). HaHaHa. Yes I did the tour as I explored Christianity when I was young. I'm now 60 and have been atheist for about 25 years.
I still enjoy studying theology and having debates with Christians.
One point:
Why do Protestants who claim to base their beliefs only on the Bible worship on Sundays and not Saturdays? The Roman Catholic Church admits that it changed the day.
Thanks again.
The best reason to leave christianity is the roman catholic church.
Gleanerman
There is definitely more superstition, wishful thinking and hypocrisy in Catholicism than in Baptist Churches. Though all religion is make-believe the Catholic variety is one of the worst.
u enjoy debates? what about with a non Christian?
My paternal grandmother's family is southern Baptists from the Blue Ridge mountains region. My father decided to become a baptist in his late 20s and my mother followed him they got baptized in the local Baptist Church. We attended a lot of Sundays at the church for 6-9 years. Then I got physically abused by many boys in the youth group, that's something I have personally against the Baptists Christians. My father although doesn't care about attending churches anymore, he still insists on the beliefs of Baptists and he still attacks me for my “Pagan” beliefs. The hypocrisy with the Baptists also is very strong.
Hey Matt, I'll see you in Halifax on Monday!! Can't wait.
Looking forward to your next video :)
Great video Matt!
Listening to the video while I play games as I usually do, but could you allow community closed captions to be opened up? There's been points where I notice that auto-detect just doesn't do a good job and I get irked enough to want to act on it. (not to mention lets some people access the videos that might not normally)
Never knew community cc was a thing, but this sounds like a good idea.
I really appreciate your allowance of comments, always makes me wonder why, when they are not
Matt I love all of your videos. I was never a true believer but always a sceptic even as a little kid. In the past year I recently became a die hard athiest and your videos make a lot of sense to me and help me understand the true intentions of the mind control unholy bible.
Why should you believe? Because it is comforting. More, not believing is life-crushing, years of grief. Not seeing granny, or mom or dad etc. ever again? Whoa! That is heavy pain! Better to believe.
Thank You, Matt.!!!
Good one Matt👍
I'd like to thank you Matt for putting a point on the many concepts and assumptions that I've been pondering since a friend's recent conversion to Catholicism. Your many examples of logical thinking when approaching issues of God and religion I can only describe as refreshing. I am now an Atheist; thank you again for doing what you do.
I encountered a Baptist church in my early 20s that actually preached that dancing was a sin. There were "AMENS!" from the congregation when the pastor mentioned this. My parents only took me to that church once (they liked to dance). It was like I was trapped in the original Footloose movie. That church was only a couple miles down the road from another Baptist church we regularly attended. I never heard anyone preach against dancing before or after that one sermon at the rival Baptist church.
Matt, you are my favorite logical thinker.
Interesting that you brought up the admonitions against card playing, alcohol, etc at the end. I attended a small Christian college in the mid-80s, when attitudes were changing, and we had a "pledge" to abstain from practices that might cause my fellow students to "stumble" if they considered it a sin. This is based on the passage in Romans 14 about eating or not eating food offered to idols. Anyway, this might be why it was left out of the book because it has been debated presumably since the book of Romans was written, what is going to lead us into sin or not. This also led to long written debates on the physical bulletin board where students could discuss such things. Basically it came down to "Be considerate of others!" vs "Oh get over it!"
If ever along I-80 in Iowa you might want to check out Walnut, Iowa if interested in Antiques.
Well done....thank you!
Does anyone know what the Baptist teach on how you should treat your parents? My daughter joined the Baptist church and totally abandoned me. Left me here alone,, legally blind,, my knees are ate up with arthritis and I have to have knee replacements done. She knows that I have no one to help me but paid health aids. I am an atheist but she doesn't know that. I became an atheist after she abandoned me. And no, I didn't become an atheist because I'm mad at god. I became smart and realized that no god or devil or anything of the supernatural is real.
First, I'm sorry for your situation. I hope you find better ways to cope.
Re your question. Well, presumably Baptists would figure "Honor thy father and mother" (but...honor them differently). Cuz that's biblical. But otoh, "despise the heathen". "Witness to them, but if they don't convert, brush them off like dust on your tunic". "If a person of another religion try to convert you, you must slay them. Even if they be your brother" (Paraphrased.) "Your love for family should be 'as hate' compared to your love for God." Those are all biblical too.
And, since for Baptists, anyone except their particular sliver of Baptist is pretty much "of another religion"...
She can even point to an example from JC. "Heal her? But she's of the wrong tribe. They are 'as dogs' to me. No, I won't heal her." Eventually the disciples wheedled him into it. Largely, as I recall, by appealing to his vanity.
Bruce Baker
Thanks for your feedback.. 🙂 I wondered if they were taught similar to the SDA church teaches,, or,, just how my pastor (when I was in the SDA, Seventh Day Adventist) would explain (tell) his congregation another way of honoring was by staying away from parents so there were never any problems with them. We had a young man who was dealing with a situation with his parents and Charlie (pastor) I remember,, told him that staying away from his parents would be another way of honoring them because that way there were never any harsh feelings or words towards them. They have a way of turning that rotten book into anything that suits them and makes it seem loving and logical. Even though I know my daughter and I know she really doesn't believe that she can also use it to her advantage in this case.
Just one more thing to add to my list of,, Why I hate religion.. That list is getting longer by the minute.
Feiner Fug
Thank you!
I will definitely keep my spirits up..
I'm not a quitter.. 🙂
Feiner Fug
Funny you should mention that! I just found out that we do have a group of people who meet up on Friday nights! I will definitely be there! I would love to be able to sit down and talk with people who REALLY have something to talk about rather than hear I will pray for you.... Three people,, said that shit to me last week. You need to seek god! Just have faith god.. I agree with Peggy,, you should seek god! It wouldn't have bothered me so much if it wasn't for the fact they know I'm Atheist. So it was like they were trying to override what I feel and think with their ridiculous thoughts of,, god will take care of it if you would just seek him! I was so offended.. But I saw just how arrogant they truly are. I never really saw the arrogance in a delusional mind until then. I appreciate you taking the time to reach out to me with some good advice and a little humor combined! I will definitely take your advice...
Feiner Fug
I didn't judge harsh enough! What judging they did get was under MY breath so it left a very sour taste in MY mouth! Lol if I had given them what they deserved they would be blocked by now. I said only the judging was done quietly.. Lol
Take care... 🙂
Hey, is the Atheist Experience still a thing? I haven't seen it in ages. I used to enjoy that show.
Love you Matt I am a recovering baptist/atheist. It is like a disease that I've struggled with all my life. I was a member of a general association of regular baptist church for the first 20 years of my life ( Bob Jones University affiliation). I went to the church run baptist school for 10 years. At age 11 i knew from the bottom of my soul that I would be the next preacher of that church. By age 25 I had completely lost my faith and was the assistant manager of an adult bookstore. What a strange trip it's been. There were 3 things that pulled me out of the religion. Doubt, puberty and rock n roll. I was told when I was a small child in Sunday School they said: ask anything in his name and believing ye shall receive. I asked for a horse. I really wanted a horse and I really believed that a horse would be waiting for me when I got home. There was no horse and that was probably the first crack in my "faith". When I hit 14 and I saw girls in that way for the first time and thought nothing as wonderful as sex could ever be wrong. the second crack occurred. And after years of being told rock n roll was Satanic and evil I listened to rock music with positive messages like :Keep Pushin, On". "Live Every Moment, Love Every day" Positive messages I wasn't receiving from church. That was probably the third and final crack on my journey to atheism. Now at 54 I still struggle with thinking that when things happen that "appear" to be bad I think it's some sort of punishment.
Thank you Matt for your videos and podcasts. I really enjoy them and they have helped a lot.
Matt, some constructive criticism: at 28:00 and on you discuss that this book is "by and for Baptists, to explain to those who are in the Baptist Church to know what makes them right and the others wrong." I think that you should have started with this statement and then gone into how they don't defend the basis of Christian belief, the Bible.
This book is an instructional on the specifics of Baptist belief that neglects to address the basis of faith. other than that presentation point, this was an excellent video on the falseness of faith and of specific faith.
I'm halfway through the video and a point that I think is important is that the book seems to be written from the perspective that, "everyone believes, but this is why our interpretation is correct". When I was a northern United Baptist 20 or so years ago, I would hear many Baptists claim that they were the most biblical Christian denomination. Catholics were considered the equivalent to sinners who worshipped the pope, saints, Mary, and graven images. All other denominations were just different degrees of being wrong.
Has Matt/ Christopher/ Richard or any other atheist done any research on African Voodoo? I can't find a video where they talk about such things as voodoo
Why do you take two Baptists with you fishing?
Because if you take just one he'll drink all your beer.
ha ha! It inspired me to riff a variant. A math problem. "If one Baptist can drink 5 beer in one hour, how many beer will 3 Baptists drink in one hour?"
Zero.
That's a true story!
i dont get it
Many Baptists believe that alcohol is sinful. And yet they have a high rate alcoholism. They drink alone because none of them want to be seen by their brethren as engaging in sinful behavior. Hypocrisy.
I was born and raised first baptist. This reminds me why I left.
That odd book kind of reminds me of Victorian era how to books of behavior and how to speak. Many seem very ridiculous today if people actually read and thought about them.
Well human made books deemed holy have some odd and silly things too if taken literally. Though perhaps some will make up subjectively interpretation any how.
I am a Home Baptist. You were baptized as an infant and went home. Then only go to church for weddings and funerals.
Back in the day, 1980s, when I was a S Baptist librarian, we had What Baptists Believe... from the 1940s. Actually about a dozen copies. Thought it was used for Wednesday bible study classes. There was also a 1940s gem explaining how we were in the “end of times” using Revelations prophecies. (But, I’m much better now.)
This certainly explains a lot of the mindset of a Baptist guy I (and others) debated with at length. He brought up the "whole faith is something god gives you" thing as part of his argument and I raised a similar objection to Matt's, that if "faith" is something that god dispenses to those he "elects" to save, then there's really no point in proselytising as god's either going to elect someone or not and thereby they're going to believe/be "saved" or not at _god's_ will - to the point that I commented something to the effect that "even the Calvinists, raving fucking loonies they might be, at least understood that it is pointless trying to "convert" those whom god was not planning to save and that those that god _was_ going to save had no need to be converted by mere mortals." Oddly enough, this didn't wash with him and he kept trying to convert everyone, despite the fact he was clearly going against _god's divine plan_ for us.
How someone can simultaneously believe in predestination *and* think that they can "save" people is completely beyond me.
He certainly had a hate-boner for Catholics. He wasn't terribly fond of other denominations but hated Catholics especially - and not because of their disturbing habit of sheltering and relocating paedophile priests.
He was definitely of the opinion that the bible was inerrant and would get to screeching level if you pointed out contradictions, claiming that we were "taking things out of context" or lacked proper "understanding".
The book is here: library.samford.edu/digitallibrary/pamphlets/cod-000982.pdf .
The "why" for Christians seems to be (1) "the Bible tells me so" AND (2) they were born into it and brought up in it. It is their "normal."
It is kind of shitty that if you leave the church sometimes they will accuse you of never believing, never being saved, or not trying hard enough to hold onto your faith.
This is totally off topic, but I had a Kayan people wiki article open as I was starting your video. The people who wear (ok woman who are culturally subjected to) a kind of neck brace. Because for no other reason than a video on scifi I just watched referenced them.
And this gets me to thinking. Again.
When a sacrosanct cow isn't your sacrosanct cow, how clearly the flaws in beliefs are seen. Also this article on the Kayan women reminds me to approach things clear headed, as I had a moment that reverted me back to the old "it stretchs the neck, and its used so husbands can divorce their wives by murdering them". Now I'm not sure where this Idea comes from, where is was told to believe this, but I had already been taught this was not the case, and yet the bolder emotional meme, a few moments ago was the one I remembered, and would have acted on before the reminder.
So this is why I write this here.
How many of my old "lessons" (thoughts) from my religious upbringing, plague me with an almost reflex response to something I already have better information for? How many sub-consciousness ticks are auto-piloting me to the same, people, events, rationalization. Contrary to what I would hope rationality and Atheism would provide me.
Food for thought.
Glad I'm not Baptist, you Americans have weapons grade indoctrination.
I grew up with the Free Will Baptist denomination. I was taught that if you fall from salvation, than you can not be saved again. An interesting difference from the Southern Baptist belief on salvation.
You find yourself on a broad , wide , crowded road filled with people of every description , all moving along at a brisk pace in the same direction , and all seem bent on reaching their destination as quickly as possible . Everyone in the crowd seems to know where they are and where they are heading so you find yourself quite comfortable in their company. As the steady stream of travelers flows along toward the distant horizon you ask those ahead of you where you are going , and thee answer is always the same , "Nowhere" You began to be uncomfortable with this answer, because it is the same answer that everyone on the Broad , wide road gives to the other question you have asked, " Where did we come from ? " Several miles back you passed a faint trail that led up to a small narrow gate, barely wide enough for one person to enter at a time. You would not have even noticed the path , or the gate except that your attention was drawn to a brightly shinning Light that shone from beyond view of the gate. You could hear indescribable music and joyful voices beckoned to you to turn aside and see where this narrow path led and what delights lay down that Way. Its not too late to change the road you are on , the one that leads to Destruction. Jesus tells us " Make every effort to enter by the narrow gate. Broad is the gate and wide is the road that leads to Destruction , and many are those who pass that way. But narrow is the path and narrow is the way that leads to Life , and few are those who find it " Trust Jesus, He is THE WAY , THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. GOD bless you all
Raised southern Baptist , so I was very interested in this topic . Struggling to this day with my parents on my "separation from god"
Very informative.
26:03 A Catholic apologist would point to families in Acts being baptized where a baby or child would likely reside.
Matt, this question has nothing to do with the content of this video, I just don’t know how to get ahold of you outside of leaving a comment directly on your channel. I was watching an older atheist experience episode where I heard you say that you “reject” qualia and that you believe it’s nonsense. I have no position on it right now one way or the other, but I was wondering if you could clarify your stance on it please? Specifically, why you reject it and why you think it’s nonsense. If there is a more appropriate place for me to address this question (like not in the comments of a completely unrelated video) or a preferred different place for me to receive an answer, please let me know. I’m really interested to hear your thoughts on the subject. I’m a huge fan and I appreciate your time. Thank you.
Matt - I'm a little confused, the why for belief is fairly obvious. Ones faith comes from chance, depending where you were born and if childhood indoctrination is legal.
The "why" seems obvious throughout: because their congregations don't require justifications.
I often wonder this about believers... do they believe in god or what they are told about god? Since they haven't seen god, is it that they love what they are told?
When I was Baptist ...dancing was okay outside church but only certain types of dancing non sinful, dancing was bad in church with some southern Baptist ideas, but a gospel baptist church I went to sang and danced. Contradiction, cherry picking, and many logical fallacies besides individuals having subjectively ideas of things.
Clearly some people have very different ideas on what is good justification for belief
oh yeah, I forgot about the foot washing. My grandaddy took me to a primitive baptist church one time and I saw that. I grew up in the church of christ like Tracy Harris...at least they believe miracles do not occur in the modern day.
Did Banana Man travel back in time to write this tripe?
That particular book did not give in depth "why" answers like you were expecting because it is a book intended to separate denominational issues - in other words, it is largely (though not entirely) an "in-house" discussion among those who (especially in the early 20th c.) would know their Bible's well enough to have a ready grasp of the issues brought up. It is not a book intended to give an extended apologetic.
For those types of questions, should you or any of your viewers be interested, might I suggest the Westminster Confession of Faith, as well as James Montgomery Boice's book "Foundations of the Christian Faith," and R.C. Sproul's "Essential Truths of the Christian Faith." Granted, these are not strictly denominational works, but since there are only slight differences between most Christian denominations, the major issues focused on in these works are across the board beliefs of all Bible-believing Christians, some of which are referred to in the book that you spoke about.
I question your statement that early 20th century would know their bibles well. Much less that humans would have “a ready grasp” of the issues brought up.
Even in the KJV there was still mention of unicorns.
If there were a bible in most households, people still depended on the churches to interpret what was written.
My grandmother was born in 1907, (lived to 103) and even though she and her family were church going folk, the Bible was kept to write in birthdays and marriages. She admitted no one read it because it was “hard to understand “.
How about you do a chapter by chapter review. Each in it’s own video.
Is Southern Baptist Church one of the biggest denominations in the States?
This is definitely a distinction between what they "believe" and what they "think". Obviously not a lot of thought go into these ideas.
"Bring me a Martin. Dunked, not sprinkled."
I was raised southern Baptist. No drinking, no cards, no dancing..
Where is your video on animal rights?????
The Multiverse doesn't get the atheist out of the first cause problem
I think the contents of this book makes more sense if the title is imagined to be “What Baptists believe insofar as they are distinct from Catholics, and why”. I think their target audience were people who wanted to know what sets them apart form Catholics, not the foundations of their theism.
If you had read that when you were religious would you have agreed with the books logic or would you have thought "nah I wouldn't have used this explanation."?
I am reminded of some of the Catholic Truth Society pamphlets my dad used to buy. The only difference being that they told you what was wrong with the Baptists as well as other protestant denominations.
The catholic church is one fucked up cult. nothing more.
I was a Southern Baptist until around the age of twelve. I lost my belief in god and the supernatural around the same time I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Sprinkled or dunked? Mmm... donuts!
Oh, gosh! We had that book in the Southern Baptist church I attended when I was the church librarian. I was already an atheist, so never read them. Believe that particular book was used for bible study groups. The church I went to was no dancing, no drinking, no movies, no bowling (they served liquor in there), no almost everything else. We could play miniature golf (no alcohol on premises) or have a cola at the drug store. Really for dates you were left with parking and necking.
You should do one on the seventh day Adventist church... oh, your right... way to easy.
Wait a sec. Is lillith mentioned at all in the bible?
ttothelow no. But the gods made men and women first, then god makes adam later. Jewish only doctrine intros lillith.
Where in New York can I get the best cannolis?
About repentance : in the year 1534 dutch anabaptists occupied the city of Munster for more than a year, they started banging on peoples doors commanding them to repent, they were Isis like terrorists , there were bookburnings ( exept the bible ),polygamy,a ghetto for the roman catholics , executions and forced conversions, It is a quiet well documented historical event.
30m 45s Who will eat the worm?
Getting thinner Matt! Me too paleo diet..ive lost 12 lbs in a month
Tell’em Matt!
I was raised watching my father becoming a pastor in the American Baptist Church. That appellation occurred during the period in American history when the more progressive churches were teaching ecumenism which espoused the inclusion of the Catholics as fellows in Christ. The Southern Baptists of that period chose not to join that movement partly because their numbers in this country and the number of American Catholics were similar. My boyhood church had been known as the Northern Baptists since the Baptist schism that the Civil War created between those in favor of slavery and those opposed. My New England Baptist forebears were very proud of their abolitionism and the part they played in the "Underground Railroad" though it was my father who baptised the black woman who had helped out at church suppers for years without being invited to join.
The start of my disillusion with all faith came when the Baptist church I was a part of in California finally began themselves to invite black members of the community to join, using rhetoric I had first heard decades before. Apparently Southern California had more "Southern" in its culture than I was aware of at that time.
obviously christianity was confused from the beginnning. james and paul couldn't agree on what constituted salvation. so how could their writings be regarded as inspired? they were a mess.
This is funny, Matt. It reminds me of the missionaries who come to my door (not Baptists, I don't think), who can't run away fast enough when I tell them I'm an atheist.
When I used to just tell them that I wasn't interested (I _was_ an atheist back then, too), they'd want to talk. But when I tell them I'm an atheist, they leave. Quickly!
Why does your video remind me of that? Well, it just seems clear to me that the missionaries are looking for people who already believe almost exactly what _they_ believe. They're just trying to poach Christians from other denominations. If you don't already agree with them about... nearly everything, they're not interested in even _trying._ (Indeed, they seem scared that my atheism might rub off.)
Arguments like this are the same thing, aren't they? If you don't already believe in the Bible, there's nothing there. They don't actually _have_ an argument, except against the people who believe almost exactly the same stuff they do. I just think it's funny.
Great video, as always!
URGENT: If anyone wants to go to the Dillahunty-Peterson debate this Friday but didn't get a ticket, there's a guy selling two for $70 each. Let me know if you want to pitch in for one and we can go halfsies.
never understood this, why couldn't the argument from say calvanist be , god may have a plan for you to come to god, and I'm the means of that message? I'm a atheist, but every time I hear you or someone else bring this up I wonder about that.
It's irrelevant. To the Calvinist who says this I respond: "either you'll convince me to come to God or you won't, it's God's decision and not mine. If I reject your argument, it's God's will." There's nothing in Calvinism that suggests anyone makes these decisions independently; it's entirely up to God and you cannot so much as reject or accept the "invitation."
So Baptists believe in an unerring Bible that was essentially put together by a Catholic hierarchy who new how faulty the Scriptures were to begin with and who never trusted these writings to be complete or, by themselves, to be a sufficient instruction to guide their “flocks” to salvation. Hence the role of traditions and authority (amendments of their living and evolving constitution, if you will) in Catholic theological history.
I think it’s weird that he talks about a schism of the primal doctrine (Catholism) as weird. That’s very telling of all the christian groups. Should probably stick to the roots and Peter
There is hardly a culture which does not appreciate the "purifying" properties of flowing water. Thus, John baptized in the Jordan. It was not the immersion which cleansed one of sin but the flow, the washing away..
"Sprinkling" is the pejorative for the Roman Church's baptism ritual but, in fact, water is poured over the head of the infant - ritualistically "washing away" its Original Sin. Total immersion merely leaves one's sins behind for the next baptizee to take on.
Let the water and the blood
From Thy riven side which flowed
Be of sin the double cure
Cleanse me from it's guilt and pow'r
NB: flowed
Hypothetical Scenario: man puts gun to head one by one to each member of a church. Man asks ,"is there a god". Churchgoers are 100% sure this man knows the truth. Question: how many would really put their brains on the wall by saying God does exist?
I never understood the contention between Catholicism and other denominations. It seems that if you can just wash your hands of the church that has been the religious authority for hundreds of years and form your own, you are blatantly acknowledging that it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you feel like believing it.
Non-Catholic denominations believe the Catholic Church became corrupt, so the Protestants wanted to go back to the actual roots of the Bible. Because, the Catholic Doctrine is heavily rooted and tradition. However, most people in any religion don't even agree with each other, a Bible version, etc. That's why there are 33,000 different denominations after leaving the Catholic Church: No one knows what to do. :-)
Baptists don't worship God so much as they worship The Bible. It's a strange form of idolatry really. The problem with asserting the supremacy of a book above all is that no two people interpret that book the same way. The other uncomfortable problem is that we didn't get the Bible as stone tablets handed down directly to us. Christians must confess that it was written by imperfect fallible men. The usual hand-wave around this is to claim that God inspired them to write it perfectly. So then why doesn't God still do that today? If God can make men act perfectly in alignment with his will, how is that different from prophets and popes who merely claim that very same authority?
Answer: "My religion is right, and everyone else is wrong." Excuse #1, #2, and more excuses. Indoctrinated from the womb. A Christian can laugh at why someone believes something in a different religion, but they were taught sense birth just like *they* where. Little Christian kids taught about Jesus raising into Heaven and his Miracles, just like little Muslim kids are taught about Muhammad flying to Heaven on Bukhari (magic horse) and *his* miracles. I've seen both sides laugh at each other. I'm Ex Catholic, Ex Christian, Ex Muslim, Atheist. :-)
Haley The Red
EXACTLY!!!!
@ Kendall A long religious history IMO...
But you know whats interesting? No one of them laughs at atheism or agnosticism. They take it quite seriously and punish it. To me it looks that they take agnostic and atheistic more seriously as other beliefs.
OK, what the fuck is going on with Matt's book "If I were a Good"?? Is there any progress on it? Did he abandoned the idea of writing it because of the lack of time? Because of not having enough material for the book maybe? I remember him starting to talk about the book 7-8 years ago. Even Donald Trump could have written a book in that amount of time. Well not exactly write it but talk about himself for hours to a person who's actually gonna write the damn thing. Anyway, Matt I'm waiting.. I would really like to read a book that touches the subject of how would our universe, or at least our planet, look like if there really was a theistic good who cares about what we eat, how we sleep and with whom, policing our deeds and thoughts and telling us which fabrics we can use for our clothes.
Baptists, as any other theists, believe they are right by default. Every other belief of theirs is subservient to this core idea, and they change their tune with surprising ease just to avoid being pinned down on anything specific. It's ok to weasel if you are weaseling for Jesus.
im pretty sure that book was written for other christians (non-baptist) to read as it starts from the viewpoint that the bible is the word of god
i would have to be in a very-special mood to really-care..
Matt Dillahunty is a blind leader of the blind, as Jesus described in Matthew 15:14. "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
I've been an atheist my entire life, I realize that's not as respectful as a former theist.
Just once I want someone to say to Matt, when he says I was a former theist, Oh? I was never deluded myself.
Hey Matt, your Southern Baptist Church allowed playing cards and dancing because you were born after they changed their rules.
Back in the 1950's and 1960's the Southern Baptist's prohibited drinking, smoking, dancing, movies, rock and roll music, sinful books, gambling, card games of any kind and more. If you had been born 25 years sooner you would have become an atheist at a much younger age.
Maybe not truly saved, but you truly believed, as many of us did.
Accept it! You just so happen to be one of them badasses, and there ain’t no way around it!
Matt have you ever discussed where the Jews came frome?
The whole, no dancing and cards, it's really more of a Nazarene thing, though I imagine not entirely exclusive.
Matt Slick, tequila?
Sounds like Matt's goin' to live it up down 'ol South America way...
Matt: Do you know anything about the Westboro Church. ......My understanding is that they are very extreme - homosexual theraphy, prosperty gospel - The Secret, etc. San Diego CA
You're missing Matt's point. He knows that, and he's saying that the way they practice Christianity matches the Bible's teachings more than the moderates. He's giving them credit in one sense, because they're consistent in their beliefs, while pointing out how awful the beliefs are by showing what it means to truly practice them.
Damn some people take this stuff way too seriously. I because orthodox because I like that hats.
That book may have been written in 1895, but most Baptists I know still think Catholics are Satan worshipers that idolize the Pope. I was raised Catholic, and my first real experience with this line of thinking came in college at UGA back in the early 80's. Anytime religion came up and I mentioned I was Catholic, I was looked at with scorn. The guys in my dorm immediately said I was going to hell for not believing in Jesus, and when I told them Catholics believed in Jesus, they said I was lying. I realized right then that most Baptists don't have a clue about anything other than what they are taught by their preachers. And sadly, they are the same today.
Nobody's going to hell, aren't you glad, no, most Christian's won't everyone else to go to hell but them. I was S.B. for 57 years and was taught to hate catholics, I hated there religion and still do but never the individuals.