INTJ Relationships: "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 жов 2012
- Find out more about INTJs and the cognitive functions in our introductory course! interpersonality.com/LearnPsyc...
Full transcript here: www.interpersonality.com/artic...
This chat is about INTJs and relationships. Whilst to many, the INTJ appears detached and occasionally even caustic, few ever know the intensity of their intimate relationships.
Sources include:
Intimacy and Type, Jane Hardy Jones & Ruth G. Sherman
Dichotomies for Dyads, Mark S. Majors
Sixteen Men: Understanding Masculine Personality Types, Loren Pedersen
You've Got Personality, Mary McGuiness
I'm not Crazy; I'm just not You, Roger R. Pearman & Sarah C Albritton
InterPersonality research
We don't believe we're surrounded by idiots, we know we're surrounded by idiots.
I'll probably die alone.
I really enjoyed the camping reference.
An ENFJ and an INTJ went on their first camping trip.
When they arrived the INTJ went on to collect timber, boil water, set up the tent, etc..
Sometime later the ENFJ confided to her partner that she felt he'd excluded her.
Utterly bewildered the INTJ said, "I was only trying to make you comfortable."
I love that you mentioned how INTJs become crippled when they are emotionally manipulated, or someone is inconsistent with their emotions towards an INTJ. I was never aware why it bothered me so much when I was so emotionally committed and someone else wavered, because I'm usually so detached in other areas of my life.
Yup I am definitely an INTJ. Feeling surrounded by idiots definitely hits home as well as not wanting to be around manipulative partners.
I like that word she uses, "worship." I am an INTJ and I have never been in a relationship, but I feel if I really find "the one" I would then make it my goal to have them feel comfortable and happy. After all, I take my goals very seriously and I always follow through.
I do feel like I'm surrounded by idiots.
hahaha, that happens to me sometimes.
This is all so true, if not, 99% of it! I tend to forget names and it takes a huge amount of effort to remember birthdays. Ironically, my friends tell me that I've excellent memory when it comes to technical details.
I just realized that I've been searching for this video my entire life
I had the same reaction though. Thought I was INTP for the longest time. Nope, certainly INTJ.
Im INTJ no surprise there. I prefer working alone and dealing with a small circle! I also have trouble trusting people so it takes patience but in relationships i am very dedicated.
Took the Myers & Jung test and its scarily accurate.. As a musician, it's difficult being an INTJ as you're always subject to wanting more than you've got in skill, so there can be times where enjoyment is absent..
It's crazy how much of a parallel I can draw to myself from a UA-cam video..
I've known I was an INTJ for a while but never payed much attention to understand the other personality types. However, lately the loneliness is kind of straining with everyday life, and I would like to share my world more intimately with another. Thus, here I am trying to edumacate myself on other personality types as well as get some insight from other INTJ's. As an INTJ I feel like I kind of lose people when they start asking what I really think. They either think I'm bullshitting them or that I talk in circles and that I'm not really making sense. I really have trouble explaining how I understand things. And trying to explain that in an interview is fucking terrible. I really don't know how else to put it other than I'm fucking smart. I see patterns. Anyways thanks for the video, much contemplation has begun! :)
lol can't read emotional subtleties(among other subtleties)... Reminds me of a girl that I almost went out with. She had already "confessed" some feelings for me. One night she came to stay over at my place and we were lying on my bed and she said "Don't try anything strange ok" with a smile on her face. So I leaned back and thought to myself, "Does she want me to do something strange? No if she did she would have said so, she is showing that she is trusting me NOT to do something strange, isn't she? I can't break that trust then..." So I just turned over and went to sleep.
That was one of the first things she threw in my face when she had "enough" of me. I only realized then(during the break up, if it can be called that...) she actually did want me to come onto her and try something.
Thanks for sharing bernd MM, Doesn't matter what the type, we all have our foibles; the sterile INTJ who "everyone knows" is an iron-maiden; don't even think of it! Yet that same iron-maiden so wants to be truly enveloped, to be shown that someone can truly adore her. The we have the consummate seductress (guesses anyone?) whose sultry looks and aloof demeanour beckon a response; thus met with "I didn't really want this to happen at this stage" ...Welcome to the wonderful world of courting ....... even at my age (really old) I still find the game intriguing.Peter
THIS. SO VERY THIS.
I personally get very frustrated when I propose a perfect solution that will improve a situation/process, but it doesn't get implemented because no one understands it, or because the implementation is attempted, but incorrectly done (perhaps because someone altered a step because it didn't make sense to them on the surface) causing the entire process to fail, and is then written off as unfeasible/bad design.
This video describes every social moment of my life, haha.
I can't believe how accurate it is, except the arrogance part.
But I think many INTJs (including myself) desperately try hiding their overcritical sense or transform it into more subtle hints for others, because critique and nonsensitive assumptions ultimately destroy -most- relationships.
"Many INTJ's believe they are surrounded by idiots."
Damn, I've been discovered! Fun video. It's amazing how a lot of the Jungian/Myer's Briggs psychology can be so spot on. It's interesting, though, how I can be so distinct into which of the four categories I fall into, whereas many of the people I know straddle the border between them.
When you know the mental processes employed, the cognitive functions, you can easily delineate which Psyche-type the indicator is "straddled" on - everyone's Psyche-type is clearly defined. I get what your sharing though and thanks for your comment.
Most accurate statement in the whole video: "INTJ's often think they are surrounded by idiots."
Thanks,
NTJ's have VERY thick skin and deep, robust hearts; if you're in the special books it takes heaps to hurt/upset them.
They can't stand emotional impositions or weakness BUT they will actively help anyone they believe are in genuine need.
The counter is - make one mistake or take them for granted and even an NTJ relo will tell you where the bus stop is ...........
NTJ's don't suffer fools lightlly, but when they know a person's limitations and needs they are L O N G suffering indeed.
Geezus... It was as if you were talking specifically about me the entire video. It's almost scary how accurately you described me. It really helps though. As INTJs are rare and generally viewed as "weird," I often feel and get treated as if there's something wrong with me, as if I'm mentally unsound or something, when really, it's just my personality type! Thank you!
Oh, one more thing... about INTJs. I've had a chance to observe that when the "shit hits the fan" in life... a real-time crisis of some sort, I've generally been the one that is in action and taking charge. While other are in shock, or standing around unsure what to do, I'm busy organizing a response.
I'll give you an example: One winter before Christmas, water pipes above the store where I worked froze, and one of them burst. Water could be heard at first, and soon after, drips started to fall from the false ceiling 6 feet above our heads in this one spot... which turned rapidly into cascades from around the ceiling tiles... but it was also spreading... from the center of the showroom where nothing was... outward toward product shelves and the repair shop (it was a computer store). The owner went into shock, and one salesmen started to move things out of the way of the spreading disaster, but that wasn't going to work. Too much to move, too little time. I told a salesman to grab me a broom. I went to the perimeter of the cascades and punched out the ceiling tiles... one by one.. in a circle around the center of the flood... the water, now unable to spread laterally, dropped like a torrent into the center of the showroom... it was a hell of a mess, and I was drenched to the bone... but the situation was contained until the fire department arrived to shut off the water mains. But it didn't stop there. As this was the critical Christmas shopping season, we HAD to stay open. I started directing. I had the owner go out and rent an industrial wet-dry vacuum to start pulling up the water with. I had salesmen set up tables in front of the store, and move the register there... then put product out front. I ran home, changed into a suit, grabbed a hotplate and a sauce pan... bought cider and spices... eggnog, brandy, and cups... and changed my job to salesman (I was the computer repair tech). I offered hot cider and eggnog to all the customers, and with a wink I mentioned "the good stuff", and added brandy to the eggnog for customers that were happy to have it. See, customers don't leave when they have an eggnog and brandy to finish :) This gave us a chance to explain what was happening... and how we were absolutely still open for business. And since nobody was leaving in any hurry, a crowd soon collected. Sales were brisk. I bet we sold MORE because of the disaster.
This is just a long winded way to say "INTJ's can be good in a pinch", but you can see the multi-dimensional response, and other clues as to why it's probably related to the personality type.
I have had numerous experiences like this.
That's neat.
Ryder Spearmann What a great story. Thank you for sharing. You should compile a collection of stories. Maybe a book. I would read them.
Nicely said - I too have had trouble accepting compliments, particularly for things I feel are still less than perfect, or those that seem inconsequential. It wasn't until a Feeling-Type pointed out, "Hey, my compliment is sincere and when you just talk past it, I think, 'Wow, why did I bother?'" - which made me realise this was arrogant on my part. Even if I think the compliment is undeserved, it doesn't take much to say, "Thanks!" and then we can both walk away feeling great. :)
:) Thanks - I'm glad this rang true for you.
I think we INTJs are an enigma to most. If people only see the cold, objective reasoning in the outer-world, they can believe that we 'don't care' - but this is rarely the case; we just don't share our deepest values outwardly. Those who dig deeper (generally by being prepared to share their own depth) discover that Ni-Fi is where our real motivation lies...
That's why I can't do of "short-term relationships". Or, just dating for fun. I just can't get my NiTe out of the way! At times, it makes the outlook seem grim, like life is a huge uphill battle.
"Their sanctuary can be in the arms of their lover..."
Provokes some thoughts for me.
For people who are skeptical about everything, knowing security in anything in this world is so fragile, may be few, or only place, where such people can find a sanctuary is where they are willing to believe it to be. Not necessarily because their lovers are perfect, or even capable of providing a sanctuary by means of defending them from harm, but because of what their lovers mean to them.
I totally second this
E Joung
I wish I had known this sooner. But I think I was only be able to accept this once I hit a certain level of maturity in understanding my surroundings and interactions. After age 28. So if you're watching this and kicking yourself for being previously unaware, think of your level of unawareness at this moment and strive to fast track the process of becoming more aware. Your completion in the reading of this comment shows that you are determined. You are not alone, in a sense...
After taking the test and getting intj this is really creepy to me how well it suits me.
I'm an INTJ and I have problems in my relationship.. And the words came out of your mouth were so true and apt.. That camping thing..and everything else u talked about.. Thanks for the video..
I thought my husband was INTP. No. INTJ. It's EXACTLY him. Thanks so much for this video! ~Love, An ISFP Fan! ;-)
Female INTJ's are 0.4% to 0.8% of the population, considered excellent lovers towards the one person who deserve the intimacy that INTJ do not give out easily.
This video is spot on. Thank you.
Wonderfully put. Ill use this to explain me in my relationships
And that's the whole point - knowing what the other person needs, not what the INTJ is capable of doing.
So if you solve the problem and rob the other person of their input; of their ownership; of their pride, inevitably they will create more problems and ongoing reduction of self-esteem. This is where the INFJ is a master of helping without simultaneously denuding self-esteem.
Hey there,
INFJ/INTJ can be a great relationship pairing, but until both are mature enough to understand the other’s value system, at times each will find the other confusing, confounding and even confronting... Like the faces of a coin; back-to-back INFJ & INTJ maintain the integrity of the currency but rarely see eye-to-eye on all matters.
Wow, that's just so special - thank you for sharing your experience. You know, if you shared this with your Dad, I can guarantee you would see Fi tears-of-joy at knowing how much you value him.
Sounds like he is incredibly proud of you and so he should be! Your ability to express his parenting qualities so beautifully just demonstrates the depth of your own gifts as an INFJ.
Big thanks :)
This is video is accurate to the point where I feel like I've been studied under laboratory conditions. I could show share this video with a person and explain a lifetime of behavior.
So many of these things hit home for me.
***** Thank you for your sharing Clifford - have a great day
this was great. awesome job explaining and taking your time with it as well.
+Joleigh W Big Thanks Joleigh & Happy New Year :)
By far the best description of an INTJ I've come across! Great video :)
yeah, I get it. Introverts can feel uncomfortable when their values are laid bare. But when we keep them to ourselves, we are more inscrutable and (perhaps ironically) more subject to mis-attribution... At least through education we provide everyone the opportunity for greater awareness and understanding of diversity, even if we have to make ourselves a little vulnerable in the process... Glad you liked the vid. :)
Hi there, this is more about group maturity than Psyche-Type alone.
Suffice to say, chatting-it-out and each sharing point-of-view is way more valuable than simply ‘being right’. We all think we are right on matter involving our personal values; convincing another of the validity of our point of view takes practice and intellectual sophistication. This is the challenge for any type especially an INTJ. Good Luck!
Ahhh, I see...That would explain a lot. Humans are naturally inclined to speak about issues or things they personally relate to. I'm very glad, though, that you created this video, like you I often feel as though INJ's, particularly INTJ's are frequently misunderstood. We're seen as cold and aloof when on the contrary we're actually quite sensitive and feeling. Our inner worlds are deep and complex, and rich with meaning.
Hey thanks for your acknowledgment. All types need to remember we are both gifted and cursed by our innate values. Real growth takes place when we can have an opinion without needing to make the other person wrong.
INTJ’s may be ‘smart’ but that doesn’t make other people ‘dumb’; they just have a different, also valuable skill set
Thanks again, for your courage in recognising this INTJ foible; all INTJ’s including me will be reminded of the need to develop kindness, essential for personal growth
Whao I need to show this video to all the people that know me. This just hit the point. Thank you for that video
Ahhhh - you must be one of those "strange" INTJ's - you poor thing.
Well at least you now know you are not alone; some of us are actually nice!
Big Thanks for your kind comment.
InterPersonality lol what do you mean "strange"?... I have a high intuition and a high T I guess that could make me kind of odd that could cause misunderstanding. The video is a good tool to prevent misunderstanding with others. Pretty good by the way
You do realise that both presenters are INTJ?Perhaps my INTJ wit (or lack there-of) disarmed you.Sorry 'bout that - But all INTJ's are strange - just ask anyone ................
InterPersonality whether the chicken cross the road or the road cross the chicken is a matter or perspective. There is a question that keep me thinking am I or the others crazy
InterPersonality oh forgot Albert Einstein
By the way, I really appreciated this video. This was an excellent description of the INTJ, and greatly helped me to determine whether I was the former or an INFJ.
I'm an INTJ and this summary is scarily spot on...
Thanks :)
Beautifully expressed, thank you.
Oh my god this is so true, especially about feeling like I'm surrounded by idiot. Thank you i know I'm not alone in the universe.😘
But this is also why understanding Psyche-Type really helps in conflict resolution.
All of us tend to demonize our unconscious values and those who use them (e.g. INFJs find xSTJs really hard to understand, because they are each others' unconscious). But by understanding Type, we don't have to make the other person 'bad' or 'wrong' just because their values seem strange to us; we can value their particular contribution and share our own perspective.
Thanks for posting this. It helped me understand how I'm not INFP, and that my Fi was just quite developed at a young age.
Great to hear Luis - well done!
Hi Pete, I think we all handle conflict in different ways, and different Types have different triggers for conflict.
Actually, the most common Types amongst diplomats and mediators are INFJ & ENFJ, because its you guys that are able to see, empathize and build bridges between many different perspectives! :)
INTJs are not nearly as tolerant!
Hey bookworm8394, glad you enjoyed the vid. :)
We plan to do more vids on other Psyche-Types in relationships - but yes, I am INTJ myself, complete with all of the virtues and vices mentioned in this vid...
Have a great day! Regards, Danielle
This video clarifies my type, thank you. I can finally get some sleep after staying up hrs late to figure out that I am indeed an intj.
I am an INTJ, and one of the most nostalgic people I know.
Hey Wayne,
In a previous comment you asked about developing inferior and/or trampled functions. Wayne, every comment you make shows just how evolved you really are; an amazing ISTP.
Regards, Peter
It's always such a delight to know better of oneself, and this description was really spot on. I've thought, why is it so hard for me to get into a relationship (which is yet to be accomplished as I'm still a single). I'm a workaholic and I get some kind of a, at times masochistic satisfaction in laboring myself to the limits.
And why is it so hard for me to get used to my brothers constant requests to play with him these co-operative games. The reason is, solo games ARE my escapist sanctuary.
I love your videos, thank you for sharing.
I'm an INTJ and found this video to be very accurate.
The title drew me in; I love the notion of a secret order within disorder.
But, the last statement in the video really got me. A hidden devotion is to me a true devotion and is that secret order within the chaos of life and relationships.
Well spotted - as evidenced and noted in my many videos, the InterPersonality website and my LinkedIn profile.
Thanks for your kind words .............
Very accurate, enjoyed watching
+ssg2991 Thank you kindly - have a great day!
perfectly encapsulates me, especially about forgetting birthdays and names but remembering scientific formulas
So thank you for raising awareness about INTJ's, it allows others to better understand us.
Did you lose them?
Certainly, a most common exclamation from our ENFP friends.
For an INTJ? Easy.
Let them think they are boss, then hold them responsible.
All types have a secret access key …….
As in all relationships, understanding what makes the other ‘tick’ and admiring them for their values (rather than believing they should adhere to ours) is the key. Both are passionate about values, so it ain’t easy, but the rewards can be inspiring! Best of luck, friend.
What a fantastic example of Te-Se language. Would love to see you on our website.
As an INTJ....I LOVE THIS!!!
all of this seems true for me except the "cold hearted non-feeling, difficulty expressing emotions." I am extremely good at expressing my emotions. Very poetic at it.
Thanks Kaitlyn - much appreciated. :)
We have more INxJs on our team. INxJ are also the easiet people to review since they don't need to spilt hairs over their modus operandi. We will do ENxJ and some others shortly. Thanks for your suggestions.
Interesting what you said about ISFPs and INTJs being the most detached type in regards to other people. I agree with your observation, and as an INTP I envy these types' individualism.
Brilliant.
Hi, people often ask how to develop inferior/unconscious functions. It’s actually quite simple but few people understand the process. The secret lies in what Jung refers to as “The process toward Individuation”. I’ll get a video done explaining what has to happen in order for this to happen. >Peter
Everyone is both blessed and cursed by the Psyche. We all have gifts and opportunities for growth.
What we all have is choice. With sufficient knowledge and recognition of self, you can achieve greatness, happiness, growth, anything.
So true and kudos to you post and your love ............
Thanks Dude, much appreciated :)
This has a very horoscopey vibe to it.
So because it has a "vibe" to it, of which you cannot logically quantify, you're willing to right it off? Maybe discern what makes it sound "horoscopey", then see wether or not it's valid.
Thank you.
I draw your attention to the second last line of my previous post; every INTJ I have communicated with knew what this meant but you chose to again post in general comments; one of the many reasons I know you true Psyche-Type.
Got halfway then realized that the next half would just be me hearing more strangely accurate facts about myself.
Good video.
Spooky accurate :)
Listening to this...will listen to the rest later. I need to learn it lol
Yes, narcissism is never attractive - glad you enjoyed the vid! :)
Very interesting, I've never thought like that. I think I have the capacity to determine rapidly when information is useful, and this is useful, really. So in order to keep an open mind during a conflict, one must have a minimum of preconceived thoughts. I will keep this in mind and think about it furthermore. In addition, I appreciate what you wrote about the xSTJ and the unconscious. Thx again/ pete
Hi Pete, thanks for your comments. In this situation INFJs actually have to relax their Ti - we'll do a video on this to explain further - but it's actually the INFJ's Ti model of how people ought to treat each other/ ought to behave/ ought to interact, that is offended by conflict.
Pretty accurate.
Thanks so much! That really means a lot! :-)
I hope I didn't come off mean :C Thanks for the video, it was really helpful! Thanks for putting the time in.
Interesting you used the term 'detached' - extremely common in INTJ's.
Peter has already done some talks on this subject for the spirituality blog on our site - he'll probably post some here on UA-cam.
Anyone else interested in Psyche-Type and detachment?
Thank you for posting the video. I think for INTJs (at least for me) is not that that we have a disposition to solve problems. It is that we have a problem/solution paradigm through which we see the world. So where others may see a situation that is part of life (or even something worthwhile or pleasurable), we may see something that needs fixing, improvement, or in some cases, elimination. When this perception is not shared, it can cause problems.
Nice sharing Joey - Ta. And yes, Ni doms can be dang-dumb at times - but only in terms of paying attention; much of the time we are 100 yards ahead of the conversation anyway.
Great job
Accurate video :)
Big Thanks .............
Thanks Herp.
Well, there is a strong association between ISTJ and INTJ through Te - although that's about where the similarity ends. The ISTJ maintains exiting order where-as the INTJ is more likely interested in destroying it.
There actually is a lot here that INTJ strongly identify with that may pass over other types.
On the matter of Self-Type and strongly relating to the descriptions - that's great - just make sure you are knowing your true-self and not your adaptive self (persona).
Yep this is definitely me I took the test and got INTJ
There's that INTJ pointing out fallacies... Which are only to his values. Haha. Thanks for the video, really helpful.
Thanks dude - share away.
There will be a heap more shortly; this time using our UA-cam audience as examples - after all - who better than real people !
Cheers!
I actually laughed at that part. You were spot on.
So relaxing. I only recently found out that I am an INTJ after my sister encourage me to take the test.
LOL, I have been called strange endless times, never took offence to it but rather thought of it as unique. watching this and other videos has removed my thought of feeling alone.
love the video, if only I found a girl like you. Will have to get out more I guess.
if your ever in Melbourne let me know
Let's start you on the right path; INTJs are too sterile to be besotted, let alone offer the old "if ever you're in Melbourne" line.
A most common mistake made by INFJ men is to imagine they are INTJs, even though they score highly on T. This is why you need skilled feedback, not just a test. Thanks for your comment.
"besotted", nice. A word I had to look up. Not sure if I would use that, I would say intrigued by your video. to point out it is very rare that I would suggest a meet up.
I merely did because whether I am or not an INTJ I realise that we do not seek a mutual company. I have never really experienced someone with a similar trait and am encouraging myself to seek this out so I can get some feedback (may not be skilled)
Something I have learnt is that no two people are alike and defining men and women for me only really comes down to there physical bodies.
I guess if you knew me, you may say otherwise and as a professional you must realise that the human psyche is quite complex and unique to all.
if you know of something in the Melbourne area that may interest me and get skilled feedback please let me know.
Hi Monica, pity life is never so simple. Anyone can fall in love on sight but some people (and types) may take years; it's often more about chemistry and confidence than type alone.
Likewise, a person interest, how and what they show to others is still more about that persons maturity than their Psyche-Type.
As we suggest to anyone wanting to make a relationship work; Know Yourself!
More relationships are lost not because of 'him' but because 'I' am being soooo 'Me' ...
Fantastic video and well informative, I can relate to nearly everything. Arrogance is not an issue until I sniff narcissism. Work and leisure... I sell on Ebay to relax.
I considered INTJ for my type as recently as earlier this year. Some people on PerC were saying it's common for ISTPs (and other types) to mistype as INTJ, and I can kinda see why. I feel like I relate to a lot of the INTJ general descriptions, such as those in this video. I've got the strong "I" and "T", with the "J" persona, and I use tertiary Ni, the ISTP description has those stereotypes I don't relate to, so I was naturally drawn to the INTJ description. In any case, I do admire INTJs.